November 18, 2008 11:33 AM
Panel at CU rails against Israeli 'apartheid,' won't condemn terrorism
So last time I wrote about Boulder, it was in defense of naked pumpkin-headed people running down the Pearl Street Mall. But last night I drove up there, when the streets were indeed fully clothed, to catch the Colorado stop of the national tour "Separate Is Never Equal: Stories of Apartheid from South Africa to Palestine," presented by the U.S. Campaign to End the Israeli Occupation and hosted by the Rocky Mountain Peace and Justice Center on the University of Colorado campus. This isn't exactly my idea of an enjoyable Monday evening, but I'd gotten wind that members of the Israeli student group planned to show up, listen respectfully to the speakers (which they did), and then ask hard-hitting questions during the Q&A (which they also did).As I sat there waiting for the presentation to begin, I saw one young man in the front row scanning everybody who walked into the lecture hall. Another guy walked in with a T-shirt in Hebrew, and the guy who'd been watching the arrivals eventually went over and asked if the Hebrew-shirted guy was there to "listen or argue." I would hope that at an institution of higher learning there's another option to dutifully ingesting every word or an all-out brawl: debate.
The speakers for the evening were Katherine Fuchs, national organizer of the occupation-ending campaign (who said that her "End the Israeli Occupation" group "doesn't take sides"), Diana Buttu, onetime PLO spokeswoman and legal adviser to Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, and Eddie Makue of the South African Council of Churches. As I was perusing the handouts offered at the door, I saw how much they were leaning on South African sources to claim that Israel practices apartheid in the Middle East. My first thought was the rank anti-Semitism exhibited when Durban, South Africa, hosted the U.N. World Conference Against Racism. The good reverend gave an impassioned lecture about the evils of apartheid in South Africa, a talk that was stirring in its correct context of egregious human-rights violations. Then, as he decried apartheid as "legal forms of discrimination to promote a diabolical philosophy ... that people are unequal," he began to pepper in the comparisons to Israel. "The argument we're having is, 'But it's right to have apartheid,'" he said, and that apartheid there "thrives on teaching its youth, its children that other people are less human."
Like, I thought, "Tomorrow's Pioneers," the Palestinian kids' show that features fluffy Disney knockoff characters aspiring to martyrdom, a Bugs Bunny lookalike vowing to "eat" the Jews, and indoctrinates hate with the help of its cold, little anti-Semitic host Saraa. And, of course, the recent favorite where kids calling into the show advocate chopping off the hand of Assud the Bunny for stealing.
Makue continued to say the "apartheid we have experienced in South Africa is being recycled in Palestine ... but it is more severe."
Buttu then spoke about Israel's "ideology of superiority" while showing maps of Israeli settlements in the West Bank, the security wall (but never using the word "security" in conjunction with it -- and never addressed the "ideology of jihad" behind the intifadas) intended to protect the Israeli border and Israeli settlements, and decried how "nobody can stand in judgment of Israel." At this presentation, though, nobody was standing in judgment of Palestinian suicide attacks on civilians or the Hamas charter that says that jihad is the only way and that Islam will obliterate Israel. This was asked by one audience member during the Q&A, and answered by Buttu (click on the link below to listen):
buttu_on_antisemitism.mp3
(Notice that she waxes about the Palestinian leaders recognizing Israel but doesn't mention Ismail Haniyeh, the Hamas prime minister who, when not fighting with Abbas' Fatah in a grisly conflict that has seen warring parties throw each other off buildings, refuses to recognize Israel.)
Buttu also talked about the "evacuation" of Jewish settlers from Gaza, but the reality is that Israel forcibly removed kicking and screaming settlers from their homes in an attempt to further the peace process. And as I wrote months afterward, Benjamin Netanyahu was right when he said that was opening up a big security risk for Israel. Hamas didn't see disengagement as a time to build a flourishing Gaza society and work cooperatively with Israel, but as a victory over Israel and license to launch more attacks on the Israeli people, which they swiftly did. Buttu said that Gaza is a "test case" for West Bank disengagement; let's hope not in the sense that Fatah militants would feel newly empowered to launch attacks in an effort to seize even more of Israel. Buttu cited an unemployment rate of 65 percent in Gaza, but spoke nothing of Hamas' unwillingness to give up terrorism or recognize its neighbor in order to restore aid. She blamed Israeli labor checkpoints -- as we've seen from the post-engagement jihad fervor, border security is Israel's right and necessity -- for the economic morass. I blame jihad -- when your focus is on fighting the Jews next door, it's not on education, job creation (well, other than martyrs), building infrastructure, and getting the trash picked up. Buttu ended her presentation by stating she was so disappointed that the Oslo handshake that had inspired her in her youth didn't end "apartheid" but led to more -- of course, nothing about Oslo falling through had to do with the fact that Yasser Arafat was a liar, would it?
Fuchs urged boycott and divestment campaigns against Motorola for making bomb fuses and an efficient communications system for the IDF (how dare they!), and against construction equipment-maker Caterpillar because they sell armored vehicles that can mow down buildings. So if there are no more Caterpillars, does this mean that Jerusalem residents would be safe from Palestinian construction workers going on the rampage on a busy street?
As Fuchs spoke, I jotted in my notes, "Does 'peace' to them include Israel not being attacked?" Seriously -- you can't have a one-sided peace plan. Anyway, she added that they were launching a hip-hop site to open dialogue between all sides, and I suddenly had an image of Mahmoud Abbas and Ismail Haniyeh launching a boy band with Ehud Barak.
Then things went to the Q&A. Like I said before, Israel supporters listened quietly to the presentation, but were ready with the good questions, which were at first limited to two minutes each and then one minute each. When two women asked about Israel's right to defend itself, and its right to exist, as well as whether the panel would offer solutions to the crisis that would take into account the security concerns, Buttu effectively absolved Palestinians of all blame. Take a listen:
audiobuttu_111708.mp3
Here we have a great comment and a dippy comment -- in that order -- and Buttu's responses:
twoquestions_buttu_response.mp3
And a great question, followed by another. Then the panel responds en masse to the previous several questions, and Buttu seems to essentially justify suicide bombings in quoting the Hamas people she speaks to who lament their lack of F-16s (so strap on a bomb and walk into a Sbarro pizza parlor?). Have a listen:
hamas_suicide_bombing_etc.mp3
And here's Makue reminding everyone to not use loaded language like terrorism because you'll miss the humanity of the terrorist:
makue_terrorism.mp3
Makue, by the way, will be wrapping up the tour by addressing the United Nations on Monday for International Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People.
November 18, 2008
9:20 PM
James Hovland writes:
Just like many of the accusation you wage, you yourself are guilty of the same bias. I see you failed to mention the significant difference in the number of dead children on each side. In case you didn't know, since 2000 Palestinians have killed 123 Israeli children, while in the same time frame, Israel has killed 1050 Palestinian children. You have also failed to address the fact that while only 52% of the Israelis killed were in Israel, 98% of the Palestinians killed were in Palestine. You have failed to list simple facts like the population of the land being 1/3 Jewish and 2/3 Palestinian when more than 50% was given to Israel in the partition plan. There are plenty more interesting facts that you have failed to mention. My guess however is that ending the occupation, or Apartheid, however you want to look at it, is not your goal. My guess is that you are only interested in preserving the Jewish image and convincing your readers that even though Israel keeps the Palestinians caged behind a wall while they attack them with tanks, F-16s and smart bombs, it's the home made rockets that are the real problem. The simple fact is, these actions do not represent Jewish values, and each and every Jewish friend I have is quite offended when people like you think you're defending them by defending these actions. On a final note, on behalf of my Palestinian, Arab and Persian friends, I must condemn, in the strongest manner, all Palestinian acts of terrorism.
November 18, 2008
9:45 PM
40acresandmymuleandNAMvetbennies writes:
Middle East Plantation. Plantation - a vast number of COLOREDS, being controlled a few very heavily armed WHITES. Israelis with NUKES.
Iraq-NAM War. WHITES vaporized, exterminated, and BBQ'ed more than 300K+ Iraqis, just for GOP grins, oil pilfering, and Judeo-Christian (gutter religions and barbarians) crusade. It will happen again, unless GWB, Blair, Lott, Delay, Boehner, and lard-a$$es Cheney-Hastert, are all prosecuted and executed for their war crimes. Hang'em high! Pretend they are Black like me. BHO isn't ready for this heavy lifting.
November 18, 2008
9:47 PM
40acresandmymuleandNAMvetbennies writes:
Middle East Plantation. Plantation - a vast number of COLOREDS, being controlled a few very heavily armed WHITES. Israelis with NUKES. Hitler must be gushing with pride.
Iraq-NAM War. WHITES vaporized, exterminated, and BBQ'ed more than 300K+ Iraqis, just for GOP grins, oil pilfering, and Judeo-Christian (gutter religions and barbarians) crusade. It will happen again, unless GWB, Blair, Lott, Delay, Boehner, and lard-a$$es Cheney-Hastert, are all prosecuted and executed for their war crimes. Hang'em high! Pretend they are Black like me. BHO isn't ready for this heavy lifting.
November 19, 2008
12:28 AM
Neve Jensen writes:
As a former aid worker who has seen Israel aggression with my own eyes, acts so terrible that if they were committed against US citizens this country would start "another war" and yet we expect the Palestinians to sit back and take it! Like James Hovland writes you have not presented all the facts, you justify the killing and inhuman treatment of Palestinians by saying "Oh but they've killed Israelis too" compare the death tolls and see the huge difference in the loss of lives. I wonder if the person who wrote this blog has ever visited the Palestine and seen the bodies of children killed on their way to school, or the babies, murdered while they slept in their cribs, or families thrown into the streets and their house and entire belongings destroyed, women and children left to starve and fend for themselves, because their husband's have been carted off to prison, for no valid reason. It's easy to get on your high horse when you live nice and safely in Colarado!
November 19, 2008
5:02 AM
Ali Chokr writes:
We all recognize President Carter as a great human being and a fair one.Every one that doubts Israel being an apertheid nation,please read his book that he wrote 3 years ago.Palestine not Apertheid,is a book that tells it all.Eyewitnessed and not hearsay.However,i will add that the whole world knows Israel aggressions except here in the US.Israel was voted the greatest threat to world,s peace few years ago not the Palestenian.I must admit,it is very hard to convince Americans due to the strength of the Israeli,s influence in our life in this country.
November 19, 2008
5:21 AM
tom hickie writes:
A viable israeli democratic state will benefit everyone in the middle east but what exists today is more like the old crusader states. Eventually America will desert israel and without support of a super power it will have difficulty surviving. Peace with its neighbours is probably more sustainable than constant war
November 19, 2008
5:36 AM
Armenian writes:
I don't care what you Israelis do the only thing is, I am getting sick and tired of giving you free handouts for 5 million people while my 401K is being depleted by the hour.
November 19, 2008
6:06 AM
peter writes:
Here is what the Word says:
“I will make you into a great nation and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.” (Genesis 12:2-3)
We need to bless Israel, not curse it!
November 19, 2008
6:35 AM
KIm Eakin writes:
The author of this blog is obviously biased against the Palestinians. The Israelis are using many of the same tactics against the Palestinians that Hitler used against the Jews. Collective punishment and mass imprisonment for example. If an unbiased observer examines the history of the situation between the Israelis and the Palestinians, it is very difficult to feel any sympathy for the Israelis. In fact the whole concept of terrorism was pioneered by the early zionists. To be fair, many of the Jewish citizens of Israel are aware of how badly the Palestinians are being treated and condemn the actions of their leaders.
November 19, 2008
6:44 AM
Philip L writes:
Isn't it funny that Israel is the only country you dare not criticize or if you do you'll labeled "anti-Semitic?"
You can criticize Zimbabwe and Robert Mugabe without being called racist or anti-black. But if you dare criticize Israel you're anti-Semitic or a Nazi wanting a new Holocaust."
This article oozes bias.
November 19, 2008
6:47 AM
HJ writes:
thanks for the excellent coverage of this meeting, which sounds extremely biased against the people of Israel. We have many Arab and Muslim countries, along with their vast oil wealth which has kept the wars against Israel burning for 60 years since the United Nations voted to allow the Jews in the palestinian mandate territory establish their state. While they were promised the entirety of the mandate, as well as the territory given to the Hashemite tribe which became Jordan in the Balfour Declaration by the British custodians of the territory, Ben Gurion wisely accepted. The Arabian governments did not and launched a war of extermination on the survivors of Hitlers final solution, with which the Palestinian leadership was politically alligned during world war II. Clearly, the situation in Gaza is bad today, but in the final analysis, the leadership of Hamas and the PLO is responsible, not the people of government of Israel who have shown incredible restraint in the face of aggression, as well as willingness to compromise for peace. Meanwhile, the Iranian government's proxies including Hizbollah, Hamas, Syria and other rogue powers are waging a terrorist insurgent war on Israel every day, as well as causing grief in Lebanon, and fighting our US troops in Iraq. Absorb Gaza into Egyptian administration, and portions of the West Bank into Jordanian administration, both countries have peace agreements with Israel and billions of US aid annually, and perhaps that is an intellgent basis for peace and moving the palestinian Arab communities towards increased prosperity.
November 19, 2008
6:51 AM
Vercingetorix writes:
To those of you upset at the disparity in the children's body count - welcome to the world of asymmetrical warfare. What would you and others have the Israelis do; dismantle the checkpoints, and allow the bombers to "equal the score"? The real tragedy here is that the killing of innocents dehumanizes both sides; lives that would otherwise be lived in the creation of good are spent devising more efficient ways of killing one's enemies. As long as organizations like Hezbollah and Hamas dedicate themselves to the elimination of Israel, peace will not be possible; no nation of people can be asked to voluntarily disappear from the planet.
November 19, 2008
6:55 AM
Moses writes:
I believe that we need to have a balanced presentation of the facts devoid of all emotions. That is the only way the issues of the middle east can be settled. It does not help the issues if we present facts supporting acts of aggression on one side and actively suppress or ignore aggression from the other party. Aggression and sucide bombings should stop. Hamas should recongnize the state of Israel and Israel should actively support the creation of a viable Palestinian state and both should put structures in place to ensure harmonios co existence of the two states.
Could Ali Chokr pls tell me what year Israel was voted the greatest threat to the world and by who?
Neve Jensen The Israeli mother would also tell the same story about palestinian sucide bombers inside israel.. This kind od approach don't pay.
November 19, 2008
7:02 AM
Miled Boutros writes:
Anyone who has spent time researching this issue sees the media and government bias in favor of Israel. It is undeniable! Fighter jets and laser guided 1000 lb bombs(paid for by the USA) vs. children throwing rocks and homemade rockets. Guess who is called the terrorist?
Many Americans support Israel, but would they if they had a more truthful idea of what is happening in the HOLY LAND. Even Rachel Corrie's memory was dragged through the mud, wasn't it bad enough that her body was dragged through the mud under an Israeli bulldozer, which was also paid for by US tax dollars.
November 19, 2008
7:13 AM
Brian writes:
Great article! For those of you that think that Israel practices "apartheid" - please actually understand how false that charge is. I'll tell you right now how to solve the middle-east crisis: the Palestinian people need to stop attacking Israel. If they stopped the suicide attacks and bombings, Israel wouldn't be forced to isolate the west bank and send troops and tanks into the Palestinian-occupied areas. Maybe if they didn't teach their children hate, it might help the Palestinian people?
A Jewish leader once said: if the Palestinian people put down their weapons, there'd be no more war, if the Israeli people put down their weapons, there'd be no more Israel.
November 19, 2008
7:18 AM
Chris writes:
Look, the Israeli government has to some extent lived by the expression "might makes right" and mistreated the Palestinian minority. However, to suggest that there is a cause and effect relationship between Israel's desperate attempts to protect it's own people and the terrorism of the Palestinian's is absurd. To think that taking down walls and having fewer security measures will increase the safety of the Israeli people and reduce the number of suicide attacks and eliminate violence because Palestinians don't have a "violence gene". Who does have a "violence gene"? The lack of a violence gene does not ensure a lack of violence and you're silly "logic" isn't fooling anyone except maybe a few of the dope smoking undergrads who were also out protesting on behalf of the idiot professor Churchill who suggested the the people in the World Trade Center were responsible for the terrorist attack rather than the terrorists! I suggest that the panelist return to protesting with PETA outside the local KFC.
November 19, 2008
7:19 AM
Erwin Levings writes:
Ms Johnsons story is full of partisan rhetoric but few facts. Her reveiw of the conflict makes certain that no resolution of the conflict is possible. Until such time as we are able to discuss the truth of events in the middle east their will be no peace.
November 19, 2008
7:23 AM
R Gordon writes:
The presentation and answers to questions by the panelists is nothing more than revisionist history in the making. Any study of the geography of Palestine (Jordan) during the entire 20th century will see the multiple missed opportunities for peaceful solutions where all parties could enjoy political and economic freedom.
Those who left the State of Israel following the UN proclamation in 1948, and their descendants, have been lied to so many times that it has been an accepted truth. The surrounding states that did not and have not accepted the migration of people into their land, creating the UN supported refugee camps continue the lies.
Israelies have a right to be able to live in peace in secure surroundings and so do their neighbors. But if the neighbors will not accept the former, don't the Israelies have a right to defend themselves?
In no other part of the world or in history has their been such a long running attempt to reverse reality. Should the United States return California, New Mexico, and Texas to Mexico? Should Taiwan be forced to be absorbed into China?
In sum, this is an example of the propaganda strategy of telling a lie often enough so it becomes an accepted truth.
November 19, 2008
7:27 AM
The K Man writes:
If there is so much media bias in favor of Israel, why does everyone hate the Jews? I don't buy it. As for whether the article is fair or not, ignore what she wrote and listen to the sound clips. Buttu is saying it's OK for Palestinians to kill Israelis. Do two wrongs make a right? Is it really okay for Palestinians to keep killing to even up the numbers? Has Israel made ANY attempts to find a peaceful solution? Has Palestine made ANY attempts to find a peaceful solution? Has Hamas made ANY attempts to find a peaceful solution? Here's a thought: stop killing ANYONE and work things out politically. If Palestine is suffering human rights violations, prove it in the eye of the world and get every other country to help.
November 19, 2008
7:32 AM
Tim Usowski writes:
Look...the creation of Israel by Zionist with US/UN support at the expense of the Palestinian people really was an injustice. However, factions like Hamas need to recognize cold, hard reality. God doesn't exist, and if he did he sure as hell isn't going to wipe out a Democratic Israeli population to grant you an Islam-o-fascist state. If the Palestinians aren't willing to live side by side with the Jews in one state, the best they can hope for is a separate state of their own. Every time there is peace treaty/cease fire, it is promptly broken, and by whom? Hamas. Israel does have the right to defend its people and strike back. I feel a great deal of sympathy for the Palestinian people, but until Hamas or any group acting in their name recognizes reality, and thus recgnizes Israel, and stops their attacks I must side with Israel on this. Overcome your past and get with the program! Accept a separate Palestinian state, stop attacks against Israel, and go about your lives. And yeah, this article was biased, but it should have been because it represented the opposing view to the conference at the university. The author did his job!
November 19, 2008
7:41 AM
Sean writes:
What I get tired of is hearing people whine about the disparity in the death tolls among Israelis and Palestinians. What? Are Israelis supposed to want to have more of their people die so there's some ridiculous sort of parity? Since when in history did a superior military or civilization ever willingly go, "OK, we know you're not as good at waging war and we've killed more of you...so we're going to let you even up the score and let you kill some more of us without us retaliating," as I don't recall? Never, that's when. I take the Israelis to task for a lot of things, but Arabs and Muslims have yet to own up to their racism, bigotry, religious persecution, intolerance and outright hate towards non-Muslims and just call terrorists what they are. Personally, I don't care for Israel. But as long as they are a counter-measure to the spread of the pestilence known as Islam, I'm glad to root for them. Palestinians could have a state of their own if they weren't acting like a bunch of idiots and wasting their lives and efforts, would take time to actually build something instead of trying to destroy all the time. So what if they don't have the borders they want? They were the LOSERS IN A WAR. Take what you can and move on already. If Arabs didn't want all of this, they shouldn't have attacked Israel in the first place and got their butts kicked. The rest of the world is tired of hearing Arabs and Persians whine about how they have been cheated and robbed when it is Islamic forces that have been invading and oppressing and stamping out peoples cultures since the day their religion was started by a bandit pedophile. The Mongols finally had enough and did something about it. Just too bad they didn't finish the job.
November 19, 2008
7:43 AM
paul gorlach writes:
As far as these comments go I have heard all of them and they may all be right but so what nothing will change with these discussions, let me offer a suggestion. As history notes Charlamagne put a end to the dark ages by implmenting a public art work project, and it worked. Roosevelt put a end to the depression by doing the same. In Israel/Palestine there needs to be a revival of culture and art on public display constantly and using childrens art work, because the most important aspect of the renaissance is childrens involvement in art like Leonardo etc.. This will revitalise creativity, and brighten a dismal outlook and open minds. By beautifying the environment of the palestinians especially but also the Israelis by childrens artwork it will flourish into a renaissance of sorts, a kind of education respectful of our humanity and sameness and not emphacise differences which religions do. But the israelis must open their minds and allow a cultural exchange of sorts and allow public spaces to flourish artwork from the people. My suggestion is public murals and not illegal kind like on the wall but state sponsored and open to beauty and imagination. It does not have to be revolution art, beauty is revolutionary by itself and so this will do the job of marrying the two peoples, even though both resist that union and are quite zealous religiously beyond common sense. Now if you say beauty is relative sure, but not to kids they seem to have a natural instinct for it and so this is why adults have killed art in modern times because kids are not allowed access or a hand in creating it. So it is easy and free to solve this problem but no one is cognizant of the power of art because religions think art is idolatry, and this is where they are wrong because beauty is art which in turn is the most of human good. And beauty is like god so that god really put us on this eart to make it beautiful and so art and design play a major role in peace and human prosperity but this has been forgotten since modern art and so we see a return to the dark ages and more warfare and killing than anytime before in history. The solution is cheap, easy, and free but no one want to make it a reality because of the intrinsic lack of imagination, just rehashing of the same talking points, what a sorry state of intellectuals existing in this world. I personally want to live in a robust world full of creativity and prettiness and not business, state, and corporate ideation which sucks, is repetitive, flat, boring and all just like modern day graphics, advertising, and museum hot shots, all boring and uneventfull.
November 19, 2008
7:44 AM
Herbert Creech writes:
My advice to the Israelis: just shoot every one who pisses against a wall.
November 19, 2008
7:50 AM
Erin writes:
"The Israelis are using many of the same tactics against the Palestinians that Hitler used against the Jews."
Are you kidding me?? Many of the same tactics? The tactics that you name are NOT Nazi tactics. Israel imprisons military criminals who put their country at risk, not innocent children. This is a BOLD claim, you anti-Semitic, insensitive psycho. Our GRANDPARENTS were put in concentration camps, underwent medical experimentation, had their entire families killed in horrific ways in front of their eyes so that we could live in Israel.
You are all forgetting some basic facts:
1. a 2-state solution was offered in 1948, and the Palestinians TURNED IT DOWN.
2. All Arabs within Israel's borders were offered citizenship. Israel has many Arabs in its parliament-- can those of you who use the AFRIKAANS word Apartheid to describe Israel say that about South Africa during the Apartheid?
3. Israel disengaged from Gaza three years ago-- a lot of good that did!
I am South African and Jewish. My parents lived through the Apartheid and harshly resisted it, coming instead to Israel, then left when Israel was resettling the West Bank because they politically opposed it. We don't stand by everything Israel does by any means. A lot of what they do is wrong, but they are threatened from each corner of their border every day. How would you react any differently?
November 19, 2008
8:01 AM
jesuslover writes:
there will never be resolution to this situation in the middle east until the truth is established.israel is an outpost of white supremacy. they claim that they have some religeous right to that area.the claim the israelis make is blasphemy against the WORD OF GOD.(Rev.3:9). the israelis are just as evil as the palestinians.they deny CHRIST.ALL who deny CHRIST are anti-CHRIST.they are the agents of SATAN.the wicked are never at peace.they are there to do the same thing to africa that the euros did to the americas. this will never happen as Africa and its people belong to GOD.america needs to stop wasting its resources in that area because BOTH PARTIES ARE UNDER THE JUDGEMENT OF THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY,UNLESS THEY REPENT.I donot want to see men of any race or nationality perish needlessly.neither does the Father in Heaven (John3:16).it is aterrible thing to be opposed to the will of GOD.palestinians and israelis rejected the Salvation that that was offered to them.GOD ALWAYS gives you choices and HE honors your choices.JESUS said this would be the result of their choice (Mark13:5-8). America should step off from them and let those combatants eat the fruit of their choice. to continue to assist one side or the other puts America in opposition to GOD's WILL.may the LOVE and PEACE of CHRIST JESUS be to all who will recieve it. the choice is yours to make.
November 19, 2008
8:05 AM
Norma writes:
I would suggest that the readers do a more through study of the history of the lands of todays Israel and Palestine. Do it in an unbiased manner. Wikipedia is a good place to start and follow the references. Nothing is ever exactly as it seems on the surface from either the Palestinian or Israeli side. The Jewish people have been a persecuted people for thousands of years, hunted, persued, massacred by Christians (crusades), Nazis, Russians, and they have always been in the lands they now occupy. They were not interlopers. And for generations they lived peacefully side by side with their Arab neighbors. Study on these things. Study the history from the beginning not just from the last 50 years. Gain some understanding not rhetoric.
November 19, 2008
8:06 AM
alan schneider writes:
As an American Jew I would like nothing better than to have a Palestinian and Jewish State exist
peacefully side by side. One with open borders, and where there is mutual economic support. Are their Israeli leaders who feel threatened or who have so much animosity that they work against this goal, probably. However for all those in the anti Israeli ( not anti-semitic)camp, until the
Arab world, and specifically the key Palestinian
leadership truly recognizes Israel's right to exist everything else is a mute point. Yes the Palestinians currently have a horrible existence, facing painful living conditions, but to lay this totally on the State of Israel ignores all the lost opportunities that they had. It also ignores
the treatment they received at the hands of their fellow Arabs who instead of welcoming into their countries kept them in detention camps for their own political purposes. So for those who cry for the unwarranted deaths of the 1000's of Palestinian children, and who then try and justify why they take up arms against Israel you are only perpetuating the situation. And as for the amount of land given to the State of israel after WWII, if you look on a map it is the tiniest sliver of desert. Correct me if i am wrong
but isn't Jordan essentially a Palestinian State. And even with all this Israel should be willing to live beside and nurture another Palestinian State but one that truly respects its right to exist. Until that happens the deaths will continue
November 19, 2008
8:08 AM
lemonfemale writes:
No, I don't believe that anyone simply arrested for terrorism should have his family's house blown up, which was Israeli policy at one time. But the Palestinian leadership has plundered and raped its people. Never mind the TV shows exhorting kindergartners to die. The amount of aid coming into Palestine, the PA could have cut every family a check and they would have had a respectable income even by US standards. So why are they living in crushing poverty? Look no further than their own leaders (and Arafat's Swiss bank accounts).
And for the record, I am neither Jewish nor awaiting Jesus second coming to the Mount of Olives.
November 19, 2008
8:09 AM
Lastman writes:
Ms. Johnson,
I can only say that the bias that you present in this article is equal to the bias presented by the panel. Right is right and wrong is wrong. No side is more right, or more wrong than the other when it comes to violence and repression. Both are wrong. And until it can be seen that way by both sides, the argument of validation for each side will continue.
Israel is every bit as responsible for the violence as is Hamas and Hezbollah. Israel must make it a priority to once and for all agree to permanent borders for the State of Israel. Something that has never been done since the creation of the Israeli State. They must acknowledge the sovereignty of Palestine just as much as Palestine must acknowledge the sovereignty of Israel.
Take a moment to put yourself in the place of the Palestinians. How would you react if one day you were forced to leave the land that you and your family have lived on for years by a power that you had no possible way of combating. Israel should represent itself with the graciousness of a guest to these people. Graciousness does not show weakness. Graciousness in the light of discord is strength. More strength than simple tit for tat retaliation could ever harbor.
Repression and aggression will only be met with aggression. The simplest of primitive animals all the way up to the most advanced will respond the same when their backs are up against the wall.
The injustices on BOTH sides must be recognized and scrutinized before any hope of a peaceful existence can be spoken of.
November 19, 2008
8:13 AM
W.C. Gates writes:
This problem will be over soon. See Bill Salus' book Isralestine .
As proof the forum's incorrect understanding of the Israeli situation Bill Clinton said about Yasser Arafat that He was the cause of a big failure in his administration because Arafat had refused to sign the peace treaty that gave him 90% of what he wanted. All that the Israeli leader would not allow in the treaty was the right of return. The right of return would have changed the Jewish state into a muslim state. Not something that would fly with the jewish people.
Furthermore, if you're the soldiers inside the wooden fort and the attacking indians are outside it's a fallacious argument to say that more dead indians outside mean you're wrong and you should open the gate and use bows and arrows. Pioneer women understood this fact why don't modern women?
November 19, 2008
8:16 AM
Mark writes:
As americans we must continue to support Israel and pray for the people there. Arabs are determined to exterminate them and we must come to their defense, regardless of how must it costs us. They are blessed and their enemies are our enemies.
November 19, 2008
8:19 AM
Rick Fabi writes:
There is absolutely media bias toward Israel. Israel's human rights violations have been proved time and again to the entire world and Israel has been sanctioned by the U. N. consistently. Two million Palestinians have been displaced from their homeland in an intentional program of aggression by Israel. Palestinian retaliations against Israel are provoked by Israel's tactics of indiscriminate killing of children, but twisted, in the American press reporting as terrorist activities by Palestine. A two state solution will never work since the palestinian economy will not flourish under the domination of Israel and Israel's assumed control of all basic resources, waterways and enforced borders which do not give Palestinians equal access to these necessities. There is, also, no willingness by Israel to give any reparations for the lands and houses they have confiscated. These are some facts. Who is kidding who? These recurring peace talks appear planned to fail. Israel appears to be using these periods of time to further displace people and kill palestinian resistors to their aggression, while trying to create an image as peace seeking. That is why, despite the hugh media bias toward Israel and the hugh lobbying by Israel to our congress, 30 percent of Americans have discovered the truth about the injustices and horific terrorism imposed on Palestinian people.
November 19, 2008
8:19 AM
Todd writes:
Anyone with eyes and half a brain who visits Israel/Palestine can plainly see how Israel oppresses Palestinians. It's simply incontrovertible. Visit there sometime and ask a few average Palestinians about the ridiculous difficulty of simply holding down a job given the Israeli hoops they have to jump through on a daily basis. If that were you, how would you react?
That being said, violence on all sides should be roundly condemned. Unfortunately, I don't see a solution in the near future, unless the incoming U.S. administration treats the situation differently. After all, America's unequivocal support of Israel is the crux of Middle-Eastern antipathy toward the U.S. You want to reduce terrorism? Help broker an equitable peace there.
And to Sean: "the spread of the pestilence known as Islam"? Wow, you are one scary, ignorant, virulent dude.
November 19, 2008
8:35 AM
Joe the Baker writes:
Prayer is not the answer.
Cold, hard compromise is the only solution and the United States is the only country capable of delivering the solution.
Here it is in three parts:
1. Israel abandons and dismantles ALL settlements and retreats to pre 1967 borders.
2. Palestinians give up the "right of return".
3. Jerusalem is partioned and protected by the United States.
We are capable of delivering this plan for three main reasons; we have the leverage over Israel, we can afford to offer enough economic stimulus to Palestine along with the Arab street to get their cooperation and we have the wherewithall to secure Jerusalem.
Any other perspective or comment in this blog is emotional and not usefull.
November 19, 2008
8:41 AM
gary sturrock writes:
ISRAEL NEVER,EVER GIVE UP!! KEEP FIGHTING TERROR AND DESTROY YOUR ENEMYS!! MUSLIMS DO NOTHING BUT LIE AND DECEIVE!! IF YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH THEM THEY (TRY) TO KILL YOU!! CUT OFF THE HEAD OF THE SNAKE!!
November 19, 2008
8:44 AM
stu fenton writes:
I don't care if the Palistinians kill every jew in Israel and I don't care if the Israelis kill every Palistinian in the middle east, just leave me, my tax dollars, and my country the hell out of it!!!!! I'm sick of listening to this crap.
November 19, 2008
8:53 AM
Todd writes:
Boy, Stu, you sure are enlightened. And so kind. Empathetic, too. A wise man, really. A man who can peer into others' souls and see pain and joy. A man who understands cultures other than his own. A cosmopolitan man, not a provincial one. A humble man, not an arrogant one.
Thanks, Stu, for lending your beautiful voice to this important discussion.
November 19, 2008
8:55 AM
barbara lichtman writes:
Jews don't attack unless attacked. They are systematically demonized by the Palestinians. Those against Israel refuse to recognize that Jews have been victimized by just about all people throughout their history. In the U.S. they make up just 2 % of the population. In Israel, a very tiny country, they are only 6 million. 2 million Muslims live with them and have the right to vote and attend university with them. Even in the concentration camps Jews taught their children. Remember the history of Arab countries....without Israel they are at one another's throats....even when Israel withdrew from Gaza they could not focus on anything for the people, only destroying Israel. The middle east is vast, Israel is tiny. Carter's think tank had many who left due to the distortion of facts in his book and his refusal to discuss those distorted facts publicly....Listen to radical Muslim rhetoric which wants and trains its children to be martyrs....not teachers, not scientists, not doctors....never mind the lack of rights for women in most Muslim countries.....it seems people prefer to see the world as all black or all white. The Palestinians they would have us see as all pure and innocent, and the Israelis as all evil.....this is the way of pure nonsense. Read Eric Hoffer's classic The True Believer....all radicals are psychologically the same.
November 19, 2008
8:56 AM
Joe writes:
Talk about a bunch of facist head in the sand idiots! You people who think Israel is the bad guy here have lost you stupid pea sized minds. Lets look at some facts that everyone overlooks.
What you call Palestinians are really Jordanians and Syrians.
Israel NEVER arbitrarially attacked any arab country but evry Arab country attacked Israel.
Hammas and the PLO's expressed intent is to wipe the Israeli country and people from the face of the earth.
How pathetic you people are. Apologists for the Arab people and Terrorists. They can do no wrong. In your eyes you believe the revisonist history being spouted by teachers and professor and even the Arab world itself. Everyone wants to be seen as being symathetic to their plight.
Its one of their own making. If you think they are so down trodden then pack your crap up and go help them out....oh wait you can't cause you wouldn't last 2 seconds there you are the Great Satan. Go anyway you have to try if you believe that strongly then it is your DUTY to go to the West Bank and get involved.
As for me.......I will applaud when Israel finally has had enough of having its face slapped and its teeth kicked in and responds inkind.When the patience of the Israeli people reaches its end waht will transpire will make the 6 Day War look like a boy sscout jamboree. Every Arab country that has helped these terrorists kill civilains will have to defend themselves.
In case you have forgotten Terrorism and the killing of civilians is what caused us to go to Afganistan and Iraq, well not Iraq there is no justifcation for that one. I didn't hear you baying at the moon when it was us confronting unwarrented attacks by a loosely associated group. War has changed and it has now become shot to kill if there is even a HINT that they may attack cause you never know when the next woman or child will detonate a bomb in a crowed public place to kill civilians. When the perpetrators hide among the civilian population and that population actively hides them then they get what they deserve!!
November 19, 2008
8:56 AM
barbara lichtman writes:
Jews don't attack unless attacked. They are systematically demonized by the Palestinians. Those against Israel refuse to recognize that Jews have been victimized by just about all people throughout their history. In the U.S. they make up just 2 % of the population. In Israel, a very tiny country, they are only 6 million. 2 million Muslims live with them and have the right to vote and attend university with them. Even in the concentration camps Jews taught their children. Remember the history of Arab countries....without Israel they are at one another's throats....even when Israel withdrew from Gaza they could not focus on anything for the people, only destroying Israel. The middle east is vast, Israel is tiny. Carter's think tank had many who left due to the distortion of facts in his book and his refusal to discuss those distorted facts publicly....Listen to radical Muslim rhetoric which wants and trains its children to be martyrs....not teachers, not scientists, not doctors....never mind the lack of rights for women in most Muslim countries.....it seems people prefer to see the world as all black or all white. The Palestinians they would have us see as all pure and innocent, and the Israelis as all evil.....this is the way of pure nonsense. Read Eric Hoffer's classic The True Believer....all radicals are psychologically the same.
November 19, 2008
9:00 AM
Dak writes:
is it fair to drop a 1000lb bomb on kids throwing rocks? no, but if the kids stopped throwing rocks i bet the bombs might stop falling.
did not hear any talk of how the palestinians launch rockets from cemetaries, schools and mosques. did not hear of any mention how the palestinians dig up dead bodies, hide them in buildings, then blow up the building themselves and blame it on the israelis.
did not hear any mention of the fact that if the palestinians elect murderous terrorists to represent and lead their people - then guess what? no civilized democracy is going to take them seriously.
does israel act with a heavy hand? of course they do. what choice have they been given?
the saddest thing of all is there are now camps on both sides that simply feed off the anger and hate. probably more palestinians than israelis, but the simple fact remains that there is such a vocal portion of the palestinians who are quite happy to be at war. what would all those young men do with peace? go to college? get a job? work hard and support a family?
it seems they'd rather be fighting in the streets, burying their brothers.
someone else mentioned the fact that someday the u.s. will abandon israel. my guess is that will never happen. not in the next century anyway.
and my own hypothesis, i believe could someday come to be: if all palestinians renounce all violence, they will have an independent state faster than they can be prepared to administer it.
but then, where will they focus all that hate and anger?
November 19, 2008
9:49 AM
Steve Mueller writes:
All I know is before 1948 the US had no problems with any Moslem country. We should let the British and French solve this problem, because they are the ones who screwed the Middle East up in the 1st place. Although I appreciate Israel as a friendly country, when did Israel become the 51st State and get control of our foreign policy. My solution, Israel back to pre 1967 borders, All Moslem countries agree to live with Israel in peace, the West Bank a seperate Palestian state, no right of return, the Golan Height returned to Syria, which would be a de-militarized zone with a UN presence to assure that, Gaza back to Egypt, Jerusalem a free city (like the Vatican) with the 3 religions sharing control. Arab counties Britain & France pay for most of the costs associated with the movement of Israelies from the occupied zones back to Israel. US to guarantee Israel's existance. I think this poblem will never be soved because there are too many people on both sides that do not want a peace that does not involve the total destruction of the other side.
November 19, 2008
9:54 AM
Guy writes:
It's absolutely amazing that everytime some leftist wants to justify "criticism" of Israel i.e. some over the top blood libel accusing Israel of being some neo-Third Reich, or Apartheid South Africa, they can simply inoculate themselves by claiming that they're the victims of some sort of witch hunt that doesn't allow for "fair and balanced" debate. Most Jews, Israelis, and supporters of Israel have no problem with debate; if you've even opened up an Israeli newspaper or listened to discussions at a synagogue you'd know that people are all over the map in terms of their political stances. What we cannot stand, however, are vicious screeds and sensationalist propaganda that treat Israel as the ultimate evil passed off as "genuine sympathy" for the Palestinians. I've always been quite perplexed by this bleeding heart sympathy for the Palestinians, and their seemingly ridiculous demands for a "right of return", that their supporters are more than happy to defend. Apparently the ethnic cleansing of 10,000,000 Germans in WWII from Eastern Europe, of 300,000 Italians from Croatia,1,000,000 Greeks and Turks after the Greco-Turkish War, the destruction of the Assyrian, Pontic Greek, and Armenian communities in Asia Minor, the displacement of millions of people during the Partition of India, ethnic cleansing of Ukrainians from Poland and Poles from the USSR post-WWII, and of course, the much ignored destruction of the ancient Jewish communities of the Arab world that displaced around 1,000,000(where they were second-class citizens), most of whose descendants make up Israel's Jewish population, seems to escape their attention. Where is their "right of return", or any form of restitution, for that matter? Around 4,000 Palestinians died during the 2nd intifada; as callous as this sounds, this pales in comparison to the 5 million who died in the Congo from 98-03, the 200,000 killed in the Algerian Civil War, the tens of thousands killed by Russia in Chechnya, the nearly 2 million Tibetans killed by the Chinese, the 150,000 killed in East Timor by the Indonesians, not to mention the estimated half a million killed in West Papua,the tens of thousands killed in Kashmir over th last twenty years,the 2 million killed in Sudan's Civil War, and of course, the 300,000(and counting) in Darfur, which I'm sure will be forgotten as soon as it becomes less trendy. Israel is far from perfect in it's behavior and there is no doubt that the settlements are a major impediment to peace, but leftists are simply delusional and off the mark if they think that comparing the Israelis to Nazi Germany is in any way legitimate, or that the establishment of a Palestinian state (which is absolutely essential) will bring everlasting peace to the region. I simply have no tolerance for white people sitting in a university, many of them descendents of people who slaughtered and stole land that they have no historical claims to and owned slaves, to turn around and accuse the descendents of those exposed to some of the most horrifying treatment in history and who know are surrounded on all sides by Arabs who indoctrinate their young using anti-Semitic textbooks (also paid for by US and EU tax dollars!) and cartoons and lob missles at civillian centers (one of which is home to an aunt of mine),of being comparable to their tormentors. It is a sick, deplorable, and beyond insensitive accusation. Israel is under a constant threat of destruction by neighbors who have made it quite clear that they would revel in the deaths of every man, woman, and child, a fact of life that spoiled upper middle class college kids in Europe and NA cannot even being to comprehend. Israel is not perfect, but is acting with far more restraint than many others would and have (read: Russia's carpet-bombing of Grozny which slaughtered a massive amount of civillians. Where was the outrage then?). The checkpoints are no cake walk, nor is the security wall a work of beauty, but both can be,and will be removed over time. There are countless other "national liberation movements" out there that are far more deserving than that of the Palestinians, and receive a fraction of the attention-namely the Kurds, Tibetans, West Papuans, Chechens, Sahrawis, South Sudanese, Assyrians, Berbers, Tamils, and countless others who have suffered far longer and far greater casualties in their quest for independence. Perhaps when the Arabs actually take responsibility for their actions and when western leftists stop infantilizing them and excusing their attacks as legitimate forms of "resistance"-which are often marked by overt Jew-hatred, and at any other time and in any other context in history would be recognized as such-we can make some headway. As for the ridiculous accusations of apartheid, which are made simply based on the fact that using such a word is inflammatory and is known to grab attention, I can simply point to the fact that Arabs vote in Israeli elections, are members of parliament (many of whom visit enemy countries), and are eligible for the same social services as Jews. As for the Palestinians, they vote in their own elections and elect their own leaders. Is their discrimination against Arabs? Of course there is, but that is something that is endemic to all societies, and not a sign of Israel's innate corruption and discrimination. This is in stark contrast to the rights (or lack therof) of Jews in Arab countries, however many are still present. I could also mention that there are countless security walls built in other parts of the world, such as Western Sahara, between Saudi Arabia and Yemen, as well as others, but I'm sure the leftists don't really care because these are "non-western" entities whose cultures we aren't allowed to criticize.Which also explains of course, why such outrage is not directed at egregious human rights violaters such as Saudi Arabia (we need the oil!), Somalia, Congo,Egypt,Iran,Pakistan,North Korea,Zimbabwe,Libya,Syria,Jordan,Indonesia, and Myanmar. I could go on and on, but of course, what's the point? Anyone who's anti-Israel who is reading this has already made up their minds that I'm some sort of neo-fascist bigot (a bigot, who oddly enough believes in the dismantling of settlements and the creation of a Palestinian state that correlates to something close to the '67 borders). If you read most of these comments, there are many supporters of Israel who are also vocally critical of many of their policies. Sadly I cannot say that this self-critism extends to those voicing support for the Palestinians, or for the actions of the Arab world in general.
November 19, 2008
10:22 AM
Bridget Johnson
writes:
"The simplest of primitive animals all the way up to the most advanced will respond the same when their backs are up against the wall."
To say this is an insult to those who have led nonviolent struggle throughout history, from Gandhi against the Brits in India to MLK against Jim Crow. Of course, those were great men; Yasser Arafat, whom Sharon correctly called a "murderer and pathological liar," was not. You can't advocate peace for the cameras and launch an intifada with your other hand.
It's always interesting, though, how many of the groups virulently opposed to U.S. military action in Iraq, Iran, or anywhere, for that matter, will make allowances for a bomber strapping a device laden with nails (for maximum suffering) onto his body and walking into a pizza parlor.
To get a realistic picture of the mentality behind the conflict, I suggest reading/watching Arab-language media. Unfortunately, Palestinian militants will not be satisfied with the two-state solutions being brokered by diplomats because they're going for the whole enchilada and no less. And unfortunately, fulfilling those goals, which are viewed as a divine right, would mean no more Israel.
November 19, 2008
10:25 AM
Stephen writes:
Its reassuring for me to see that this issue is still debatable on a web-site. However, in my beloved USA there is no debate. There is no alternative. There are no options. USA supports Israel, even though I question Israeli support for USA. I have read that American Jews are vociferous in their defense of Israeli aggresion, when Israeli Jews are much more pragmatic. The stranglehold Jewish Americans have on my beloved USA's policy in the middle east will prove to be detrimental sooner or later. The death toll in the DRC is irrelevant Guy. The death toll in Algeria is irellevant Guy. They are so because its not American tax dollars bankrolling these civil wars. And that is what they are. In Palestine, there is no civil war, its extremist Jews versus extremist Muslims; and yet their positions get all of the coverage. I hope truth and reality get some attention. Furthermore, jewish infiltration of American media and government is sickening to the American Nationalist in me.
November 19, 2008
10:25 AM
Phyllis writes:
No one will ever defeat Isreal. They are God's chosen people and the land of Isreal was promised to them by God. God said, I will bless those who bless you and I will curse those who curse you. I, personally, choose to bless Israel and send money to The International Fellowship of Christians and Jews. This money helps the Jewish people,who are under constant attack from the Palestinians, bring Jews from all over the world back to their homeland, Isreal. Thousands of Ethiopian Jews are returning to Isreal. This, also, helps Isreal maintain a majority of Jews in their country. Being a democracy they could easily be overtaken by a Muslim majority. Pray for Isreal, as most Christians do.
November 19, 2008
10:29 AM
Jodie writes:
Apartheid?!?! I never heard of the poor black african people blowing up the white's in power! All they ever did was try to survive and live and love.
Let me ask you this. If MEXICO treated the US the way Palestine treats Isreal, WHAT WOULD YOU DO? Would you care if their children were killed? NO, you would say "less of them to attack us later". Would you care if they had no homes or food? NO, you would say "good I hope they starve to death, it'll save me the trouble of killing them myself". If the ones that cross the border from Mexico to the US every day to work had to go through a long checkpoint (oh wait, they do!) and used that as an excuse to lob home made rockets into california and texas, WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
If MY child or mother or grandpa or husband or sister or wife or grandma or aunt or cousin was killed by a suicide bomber, I would stand every day within site of a checkpoint with a gun and pick off at LEAST one of them, I wouldnt care which one. So would you.
I know, sounds ignorant. I know, sounds uneducated. I know, the poor little children, they ARE innocent. BUT THATS WHAT WE WOULD DO.
Look how we reacted to the towers and the pentagon getting hit. AND we invaded the wrong country to boot. Should have been Saudi Arabia. AND we all cheered those troops as they drove across the desert.
Think the arabs are crying about our lost civilian lives? NO. I saw them, here in Paterson, NJ, dancing in the streets celebrating all the american and non american lives lost "LONG LIVE ALLAH" is what they said. I SAW THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN DANCING AND CELEBRATING. I guess in order for allah to live the rest of us must die?!?!?! Even Satanists are better that THAT.
Now, I dont go in for extermination of anyone. That's not for me. I dont hate Christians, Jews or Muslims. BUT I WILL DEFEND MYSELF. SO WOULD YOU!!!!!
November 19, 2008
10:30 AM
Phyllis writes:
No one will ever defeat Isreal. They are God's chosen people and the land of Isreal was promised to them by God. God said, I will bless those who bless you and I will curse those who curse you. I, personally, choose to bless Israel and send money to The International Fellowship of Christians and Jews. This money helps the Jewish people,who are under constant attack from the Palestinians, bring Jews from all over the world back to their homeland, Isreal. Thousands of Ethiopian Jews are returning to Isreal. This, also, helps Isreal maintain a majority of Jews in their country. Being a democracy they could easily be overtaken by a Muslim majority. Pray for Isreal, as most Christians do.
November 19, 2008
10:48 AM
USA writes:
The Palestinian people never had a problem with the Jews until they came to land of Palestine. The Palestinian people have the right to defend themselves against occupation by the Israeli army and settlers who roam the West Bank. Those settlers are not civilans, they are armed to the teeth and many of them serve the in the Israeli army. When they are "off-duty" they attack Palestinian villages, kill Palestinians, destroy cars, burn Olive trees under the protection of the Israeli army.
Whenver there is a deadline for a peace deal, the Israeli government plays the game of elections and corruption charges against some politians. They rotate those people to various government posts and all-of-a-sudden they are back in the picture. It's a pure deciption while trying to grab more land from the Palestians.
Once a Jewish settler was asked by the New York Times reporter, "Why do you kill and humilate the Palestinian people?", the settler answered, "God sent us with the duty to punish the Palestinians".
No wonder there is so much hate against the Palestinian people by the hateful mongers who want more and more of our tax money to feed their zionest dream.
November 19, 2008
10:54 AM
Anonymous writes:
The problem with Israel's argument of "we doing all these in the name of security" is vain and holds no water. This has been the M.O of repressive regimes like the Fascist, Communist, dictatorship and yes the south African Apartheid govt too. Why can't you stay still while i pound on you attitude is the Israel way of dismissing any one who tries to fight the occupation. Yes the Palestines will use any means necessary to try counter Israel's more superior military capabilities, unfortunately both citizens do get caught in the crossfire.
November 19, 2008
11:03 AM
Daniel Mainzer writes:
IT IS OBVIOUS FROM THE RESPONDERS THAT ANTI SEMITIES ARE IN ABUNDANT SUPPLY. THE FACTS ARE SIMPLE. IF THE PALISTINIANS STOP THE TERRORISM, BECOME AN INDEPENDENT STATE, AND RECOGNIZE ISRAEL AS A NATION NO ONE WILL BE KILLED. PALISTINIANS HAVE BEEN BRAINWASHED STARTING WITH THE MONSTER ARAFAT AND REFUSE TO ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR CRIMES. ISRAEL HAS SHOWN REMARKABLE RESTRAINT
November 19, 2008
11:16 AM
Kevin writes:
Thank you for reporting the fact that the Palestinian position of defending suicide bombers and violence against the Israeli people is indefensible. They can not or will not see their own hypocrisy. We need to be reminded that we (the U.S.)need to stand together with the Israel people. We are truly their one and only ally.
November 19, 2008
11:25 AM
Keith Johnson writes:
Jimmy Carter...a great and fair man???? God, that's as laughable as describing Arafat as a diplomat. Carter's unwillingness to deal with a radical Islam in its infancy is a major reason for its rise today.
It is inconceivable that a Palestine can exist with Israel because Hamas CAN'T allow it. Their power would evaporate overnight and the only thing they care about is power...much like the democrat party in the US.
Israel has the right to exist....period...and to that end they have the right to defend themselves. The West Bank and Gaza occupations were as a result of wars....wars designed to destroy Israel...and as such they have every right to those territories. Anything else is garbage.
November 19, 2008
11:32 AM
MB writes:
Israeli's get about $22,000 per Israeli from USA (2007 data). I sure would like my government to give me $22,000. People need to start reading about how much this is costing us not only in direct aid but indirect aid. While Americans are in a foreclosure crises and there 401k's are getting wiped out, we are sending billions to them and spending additional billions supporting Israel. Including Billions in debt forgiveness over the years. Billions in development funds for weapons systems and such, which in no way benefit the USA. Look it up the numbers are staggering. The direct aid they get is peanuts compared to the indirect aid that is not counted or reported on. Look at some of the agreements made with them they are anti-American.
So what my point. I am sick and tired of my wallet being empty for someone else.
November 19, 2008
11:52 AM
Boazhorribilis writes:
Throughout history, conflicts and wars were waged because of hate, boredom, ego, greed, and the list goes on.
The Middle Eastern war, represents the leading edge of a conflict between the 20/21th century civilization with all it's attributes and the 8th century nostalgia supported by dogma.
Arabs should teach their kids to build planes instead of hijacking them. They will be happier for it.
Some of the coments here show that many need to observe history with an objective eye and base their opinions on the facts rather than acquired prejudices.
November 19, 2008
11:52 AM
Truthful writes:
Isn't it funny that everyone is mad at the Jews when you never have a Jew bombing a small resturant or mall or dance club.
Islamic Terrorism is a disgrace and all who practice it maybe a follower of a god but not The TRUE ONE GOD....GOD IS LOVE LOVE IS GOD......
November 19, 2008
11:53 AM
Truthful writes:
Isn't it funny that everyone is mad at the Jews when you never have a Jew bombing a small resturant or mall or dance club.
Islamic Terrorism is a disgrace and all who practice it maybe a follower of a god but not The TRUE ONE GOD....GOD IS LOVE LOVE IS GOD......
November 19, 2008
12:30 PM
Steve Mueller writes:
Never had a Jew bomb a small resturant.......??? Study the history of the area in the 30's and 40's, and ask all the British mothers who lost sons to Jewish bombs what they think. At that time the Jews were the terrorists.
November 19, 2008
12:36 PM
Jean writes:
Excellent article! Thank you! Let the anti-Israel idiots rant on these boards - there will always be rational people in the world who share your viewpoint.
Never forget: If the Arabs living in Israel put down their guns, there'd be no more violence there, while if the Israelis put down their guns there'd be no more Israel. I pray that Israel does not put down her guns - ever - as long as the Arab threats to her safety remain.
While we're at it - let's all stop calling them 'palestinians' and refer to them as 'arabs'. And, btw, these 'arabs' are living in Israel, since there is no such place as 'palestine'. It is a figment of the Roman imagination and shows their perverse sense of humour at this, the world's first attempt at partitioning a land a people.
How a group of people (the arabs of Israel) could manipulate the world opinion in their favor while breeding their own children to become human fodder for their insane clerics is truly amazing. Only an animal can raise a child teaching him from infancy that he must sacrifice himself for the good of...whom exactly??? Not of his parents, not of his neighbors... Actually, animals would never do this, so I should rephrase this - I think I may have insulted the animal kingdom by equating arabs in israel to them. LOL I am at a loss for a good comparison...anyone? anyone? :))))
November 19, 2008
1:18 PM
Samurai writes:
The only way peace will be achieved when Israelis realize that arrogance and domination of other people is futile. Stop spreading hate on the Internet and stop justfiying the occupation and aparthied against the Palestinian people.
Your so called leaders realize this and history will repeat itself. You continue on the path of humulating the Palestinians and you will be doomed. The Arabs offered a land-or-peace deal, but you rejected it hoping to grab more land. However, I think time is running out and you're dwindling behind an apprarthied wall thinking somehow it will protect you at the expense of the Palestinians!
November 19, 2008
1:33 PM
Goliath writes:
The seeds of hatred are firmly established in the Middle East. It is very sad to see the arguments running back and forth that "because you killed my children, it is justified that I kill your children." What's more, from a purely practical standpoint, neither side can "win", absent a(nother) genuine holocaust of millions of people, which would represent pure evil. Instead, this line of argument is the basis for a continuation of the current situation, which is acceptable to none. For starters, both sides have to recognize the legitimacy of each other's histories in the region. Until that happens, the violence will not end.
What bothers me, however, isn't as much the situation in the region itself as the role of the United States. People talk about the United Sates being an "honest broker". That is absurd. Obama is the best option for US leadership right now, but that is the best of weak options. In regards to Israel in particular, having Barack Hussein Obama wearing a skull cap to show obedience to the Israeli lobby in the US is very disturbing. I have no trouble with Obama's heritage, and think his middle name represents a wonderful testament to the ideals of the USA. But the irony of that name combined with his slavish obedience to the standard rabidly pro-Israeli US rhetoric is truly bizarre! The United States is so reactionary when it comes to "defending Israel" - even when compared to Israeli domestic politics - that something is seriously wrong.
In the absence of US military and economic support (direct and indirect), serious questions appear about the viability of the Israeli experiment. Does it bother anyone else how this flow of money and military power affects the policies of both the US and of Israel?
November 19, 2008
1:33 PM
Jimmy writes:
With the bad economic time hopefully the US will stop propping up the state of Israel and let it fall as it should.
For Israel to occupy Gaza and cut off food and water to them is just the kind of thing Hitler did. They can not deny it.
It is evil in it's purest form.
November 19, 2008
1:37 PM
Arkady writes:
Sick "USA" said: "The Palestinian people never had a problem with the Jews until they came to land of Palestine."
Just you know, pogrom here, hundred killed there, may be a few rapes.
According travel dairy of Will Collins, American president of 19th Century, writer Mark Twine, Palestine population was about 80% Jewish.
When Sionist movement started puchase land in Palestine, organise kibbutts,start construction, Palestine got revitalised. Hungry arab tribes jumped for the job, offered by settlers. This is how Arabs repopulated Palestine.
Since recreation of Israel, Arab States, armies and individual terrorists were trying to illuminate the State, kill as many Jews as possible. And if sometimes they were stopped at the gates of Damask or Cairo in their persuit of next aggressor that attacked them, subject wars were not their initiative.
How come that Israely leaders are so stupid not to understand lessons from their own history?
If Israely has left any brain, they should stop hiring any Arabs for any job. Then it'd be no Arab tractor driver to make terror on a Jerusalem streets.
Every rocket shall be responded by avalanch of fire. Do not afraid to kill an arab before he kills your child.
November 19, 2008
1:48 PM
jimmy writes:
Well Israel does not want to talk about it. From today:
JERUSALEM (Reuters) – Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni said on Wednesday that Israel had made a final decision not to participate in a U.N. forum on racism and urged other countries to boycott what she termed an "anti-Israel tribunal."
November 19, 2008
2:06 PM
Jimmy writes:
As the crisis worsens, however, it will undoubtedly be Palestinians who pay the heaviest price. Under the Israeli occupation in the West Bank, Palestinians frequently have their mains water supply cut off for days on end. Rooftop water tanks holding supplies are a prominent feature of the skyline in West Bank towns, but are often empty and filled via hose from wells below when municipal supplies dry up. In the Gaza Strip, meanwhile, the Israeli blockade renders the situation even more precarious. As Israelis themselves begin to feel the pinch at Lake Tiberias, Palestinians are bracing themselves for further hardship.
November 19, 2008
2:11 PM
Rick writes:
As guy pointed out with many statistics, there are many atrocities which have been promulgated on humanity. My problem with the Jewish position is that they don't appear to see suffering as the suffering of all of humanity which is the present psychological state of man. Their invoking of anti semitism, of their suffering during the holocaust, the many motion pictures created by largely Jewish Hollywood all attest to the Jews indifference and self interest, that their suffering is unique. This action separates them from the rest of humanity since in their eyes their suffering was the worst. This apparently justifies their cruelty toward the Palestinian people which they cannot see. This is pure illusion. Humanity suffers by whomever kills another. Noone is excluded from this tribal behavior and this attitude of exclusive suffering, if you will does not engender any compassion toward Israel. Contiousness is one. The mother of a dead Palestinian child does not suffer more or less than the dead child of a Jewish mother
November 19, 2008
2:20 PM
Jeff Piil writes:
Aparthied, what does anyone on here know about apartheid? In 1993 I was in Johanesburg and surounding areas, I saw things I don't want to ever see again and will never get out of my mind. RSA & Isreal not even close. Is there obtainable truth is the question that should be asked, not obsorbing media feedings that are doled out for your consumption. Apartheid in RSA looks nothing like Gaza. From one who knows Apartheid
November 19, 2008
6:59 PM
Ida Audeh writes:
I attended the CU event too, so I'd like to give a different point of view to the one the
blogger has been able to publish.
The blogger seems to have a problem with Buttu's use of "ideology of superiority." Funny, so
did many in the audience, including the ones who nodded approvingly when at least two members of
the audience proudly asserted their support for a policy of "transfer." This is Israeli speak for ethnic cleansing, which is a war crime. Too bad that many Jews in the audience seemed to find that acceptable (no one objected).
Only people with an ideology of superiority can institute the kinds of policies that the Israelis are (promising a holocaust in Gaza and denying food and electricity to 1.5 million Palestinians
there; a wall and hundreds of checkpoints in the West Bank) and not worry that they are deliberately and intentionally reducing to impoverishment an entire nation. This was not
a concern for the blogger or for the audience. They can't be bothered to think about the plight of non-Jews. Again, an ideology of supremacy. Israeli policies are criminal and actionable and cannot be justified -- it's irrelevant what the Hamas charter says or what you make up about it, or the stories you weave about our cartoons and educational system, or any other garbage you raise. Israeli security concerns do not explain why Israel's wall steals lands from farmers and puts water sources beyond Palestinian use. Security concerns don't explain why the wall separates Palestinian villages from each other. But Israel's obsession with controlling the Palestinians it is forced to keep does explain the wall, and Israel's sick obsession with demographics is at the root of all the sick policies, including the Israeli bulldozer, which is always making Palestinians homeless.
It would take too long to rebut the blogger, who is as jaundiced as the people in the audience
whom she found so reasonable. The bottom line is: What is Israel's end game? What do Israel's
supporters see as a peaceful resolution to the crisis? They bend over backwards justifying
Israel's criminal behavior, but they really don't offer a way out. Because they can't.
The blogger had a problem with the use of the word "apartheid" and so did some of the commentators. South African activists see Israel's policies in the West Bank and Gaza as comparable to apartheid in some ways, much worse in others. In SA, people weren't facing F16s bombing them in residential areas the way Palestinians faced in spring 2002; the West Bank has separate road networks for Jews and non-Jews, which seasoned South African anti-apartheid activists have publicly called particularly sickening.
The situation in Israel itself is different -- Israel's treatment of the 20% Palestinian
citizens of Israel is more akin to the Jim Crow south, where the state openly discriminates against the 20% of non-Jews it is forced to keep. At least 20 laws explicitly discriminate against
them because they are not Jews and state resources are intended for world Jewry. That's a fact. And it can't be whitewashed, and it is despicable.
Jean, by comparing Palestinians in Israel to animals and then concluding that that is not
going far enough, you are a racist, and you are a disgrace to any religion or group you belong to.
I wonder whether the blogger believes that all citizens of the state should be treated equally and that state law should be blind to ehtnicity, religion, origin, etc, as we expect here. Because Israelis don't. The majority of the Israelis immigrated from somewhere else, and they think they are imposed upon by having to tolerate Palestinians, the indigenous population and the descendants of the people who lived there before the miserable state of Israel was created. (Every now and then they run amok and start torching Palestinian homes and calling on them to leave the miserable state, as they did recently in Acca.) But talk to Israelis, and nothing existed before 1948.
Jeff Pill, you claim to know apartheid, but you probably don't know Gaza at all. And you certainly don't know what it is to live in the occupied territories as a non-Jew whose presence is unwelcome. So I don't think you are in a position to judge.
Arkady says much silliness that is simply ahistorical, and he or she ends with "Do not afraid to kill an arab before he kills your child." Believe me, Israelis have never been afraid to kill our children, which is why so many of them are dying, 8 to 9 times as often as Israeli children. What a pity that you can't see that it is a crime and a tragedy when any civilian is murdered. Instead, you have to justify killing Palesitnians because Israel needs all the defense attorneys it can get for its by now habitual murder.
Keith Johnson has decided that countries are entitled to keep territory they occupy during war.
Wasn't that the Third Reich's argument? I don't believe that anyone bought it, and oddly enough, it is inconsistent with international law, however. Funny how Israel's supporters always invoke the law of the jungle and of power; they
have no use for law as the rest of us know it.
Do you really think that Israel can continue to occupy lands, put people in smaller spaces behind
walls, control their every move, sow southern lebanon with land mines when it wishes, and be
accepted in the region? This is a dead end, which only people drunk on power would fail to see.
November 19, 2008
10:39 PM
Summer writes:
There is a serious problem when the Jews believe that their is blood is better because it's Redder. It's hard to believe but it's true. Their Rabbis already said this. There is serious problem when the Jews believe they the chosen people of God and the rest are just animals. There is a problem when the Jews believe it's okay to kill for the sake of their security denying the Palestians their right to live free from oppression and humulation. Of course not all Jews believe in this and those will immediately be called self-hating Jews because they won't subscribe the hate-filled ideaology of supremacy.
November 20, 2008
9:15 AM
jwpaine writes:
"We all recognize President Carter as a great human being and a fair one."
Um, no, we all don't.
November 20, 2008
2:23 PM
Hoff writes:
The truth about the jew mafia - and it's ugly.
http://hoff2.wordpress.com/