September 22, 2008 10:31 PM
Saints question Broncos win
For the second consecutive week an opposing coach is saying a Broncos win came with some help from the officials.
Saints coach Sean Payton said at his press conference on Monday a no call aided the Broncos cause in the 34-32 victory over New Orleans in Invesco Field at Mile High.
Lined up for a third-and-1 play from the Broncos' 24-yard line with just over two minutes to play in the game, Payton said Broncos linebacker Jamie Winborn is clearly lined up in the neutral zone as the ball is snapped to New Orleans quarterback Drew Brees.
Saints running back Pierre Thomas was stopped for a 1-yard loss by Broncos linebacker D.J. Williams on the play. Then on fourth down Saints kicker Martin Gramatica missed a 43-yard attempt.
A penalty would have been for five yards and given the Saints a first down and the ball would have been moved to the Broncos' 19-yard line.
Line judge Tom Stephan, standing at the top of the formation on the video, did not throw a flag. Winborn, as you look at the video, is lined up at the bottom of the formation.
Winborn appears to move his right foot into the neutral zone just before the snap, but there are seven Broncos players lined up along the line of scrimmage in addition to the ball between Stephan and Winborn.
Speaking to reporters in New Orleans Monday Payton called it a "hard pill'' to swallow and said he called the league's office to voice his complaint to vice president of officiating Mike Pereira.
The previous week the Broncos benefited when a Jay Cutler fumble was ruled an incomplete pass late in the game and the Broncos were able to keep a game-winning alive in what became a 39-38 victory over the Chargers.
San Diego coach Norv Turner called it "unacceptable'' that referee Ed Hochuli inadvertently blew his whistle as Cutler lost the ball, negating the Chargers' recovery and any replay confirmation of a fumble.
--Jeff Legwold
September 23, 2008
5:22 AM
`Dave writes:
The fumble is understandable (I'll still take the win - in your face Philip Rivers!) but this is just petty. Two reasons: 1) there are so many missed calls each week for every team. This is just another coach trying to capitalize on last week's blunder. I mean, what are we, the Patriots? 2) Get a better kicker! Two missed POTENTIAL game winners. Payton should not be mad at the refs, but at not-so-automatica Gramatica.
September 23, 2008
5:49 AM
mb writes:
well that's it every single play should be instant replayed to check for any violation of any rule by anyone.
Yawn.
Like with the chargers - he may have a problem with one play but seems to ignore the fact if they kick the field goal then they lead (of course jay would've gone up the other end and scored....)
September 23, 2008
9:35 AM
Jude writes:
Hey Dave your right Gramatica is not automatica anymore for sure,But as a die hard Saints fan you can say what you will but if the shoe was on the other foot you too bro would be bitchin about the no call a fan is a fan is a fan and we want to win as much as you guys do soooo come back to reality and just admit...well guys we got away with 2 games due to bad calls and no calls oh by the way the touchdown called back on Reggie due to holding...WHAT HOLDING yet another terrible call even in slo mo the commentators were baffeled soo it's not just me...Peace and come on bro be cool and Fan up
September 23, 2008
9:37 AM
mark writes:
Boo Hoo.
One could make the case as well that Scheffler's fumble was an incomplete pass. But the Broncos found a way to hold them off and win it nonetheless.
Sean Payton better suck it up and focus on how his team blew a win-able game instead of filing complaints with the league and looking like a crybaby.
September 23, 2008
9:46 AM
jude writes:
Mark,Mark,Mark Your soo right about us sucking it up and moving on,wich we have but we just had to state the obvious thats all but none the less if you view Scheffler's fumble as questionable then brother you need to start watching Chinese table tennis. Man i know Denver has class but you 2 dudes are questionable....
September 23, 2008
9:53 AM
Hamma writes:
The only team in the NFL that allows 12 men on the field 11 players and 1 zebra...Say what you will but no zebras making those calls and non calls and your 1 & 2...By the way was it a funmble yes or no and was he lined up in the netural zone yes or no!!!!! Later people
September 23, 2008
11:09 AM
tom writes:
Conveniently Payton fails to mention that the Saints were awarded a TD although the runner was short of the goal line. I am sure that was a "hard pill" for the coach as well.
September 23, 2008
11:10 AM
Tony writes:
I think there is a new conspiracy called Refgate going on in Denver. But Grammatica still missed a makeable field goal in the thin air of Mile High Stadium. We didn't help ourselves just as much as the refs helped you guys. Please make it to the Super Bowl because we will be there. I would love a rematch.
September 23, 2008
1:16 PM
Jason W writes:
I cant beleive that not one denver fan that posted on this site will admit that the refs blew calls to help aid in there last 2 victories.So what it happened and denver prospered but dont get all defensive about it & try to justify it just admit it and keep moving forward with your cheating ways.**Go Browns!!!!
September 23, 2008
1:48 PM
Greg writes:
I thought he was offsides while watching the play and even yelled at my TV for him to back up. I can admit those calls were wrong and came at key times.
I do think Denver is pretty lucky, but switch it around.
Did San Diego cause that fumble? No, it was a fluke play where Cutler just dropped the ball.
Did Winborn being one inch into the neutral zone affect the play? Did it give them an advantage? NO. He didn't even make the play.
If Denver was 1-2 right now, it would have been lucky plays going against them that cost them the games. SD and NO didn't "force" those mistakes, so you know what, QUIT WHINING!!
I actually feel bad they won the way they won, but not that bad.
Denver stopped NO on 3rd and 1 and a guys toes were in the neutral zone and the coach is whining about it?
And Reggie Bush scored a minute or so after the holding penalty, so they got that touchdown back.
As for SD, it was a bad call. They had 2 consecutive plays to stop Denver and they failed. Than they had a chance to get in FG range and the receiver didn't get his feet down.
Bad calls affect games each week. It happens to everyone, but now everyone wants to whine and complain because they didn't lose because Cutler and Co. gashed their crappy defenses.
September 23, 2008
2:01 PM
tall wee fan writes:
Well I'm not afraid to admit to the first mis-call, as to the second (I was unable to watch the game: at work) "moving forward with your cheating ways" pleeeaaaasse! Winborn didn't even make the tackle, Williams did! "he was lined up in the neutral zone!" There are so many no-calls in a game for BOTH sides, If they called them all there wouldn't be a game UNDER 5 HOURS! Maybe next game "the Broncos cheated because the sky is blue! and the game was played on a day that ended with a Y!" All you "Haters" need to stop drinking "Hatoraide" and GROW UP!
September 23, 2008
2:03 PM
broncosjustwon13 writes:
Are you serious? I love how every single saints fan is whining and crying about the game. The truth is ... just the same as the Chargers game, WE SHOULD HAVE SMOKED YOU GUYS!!! B U T instead of playing hard for the entire game, we got up 21-3 (without the help of any zebra) and then blew the lead away. The refs are doing there job, either the best or the worst that they can, but either way the ball rolls we are 3 - 0 !!! AND YOUR TEAM ISNT ! ! ! so get over it, we will have our fair share of bad calls -- and are you serious Jude until this season that would have EASILY been ruled an Incomplete pass (remember the rule 2 feet down and then a football move, he barely had both feet down before he dropped it) but not one person is complaining and if we lost... im sure someone would have said something but right now we are getting lucky, and hopefully soon our skill will prevail and the luck will not be necessary.
September 23, 2008
2:05 PM
broncosjustwon13 writes:
COMPLETEY AGREE WITH GREG !!!
you rock man :D
September 23, 2008
2:20 PM
RealheavyD writes:
It'll all come back to you in the end. Mark those words! GEAUX SAINTS!!!
September 23, 2008
2:36 PM
Jude writes:
It's called a penalty no matter who made the tackle and it was a penalty and would have given The Saints a first down on the 19 and maybe we might have done nothing with that field position but it would have been nice to at least get that chance.A line judge"s first responcibility is to look down the line before the snao and this cat blew it...I havent seen anybody whine on this site just stating the obvious and if the shoe was on the other foot wich i understnd it isnt you would be stating the obvious as well to wich i would reply your right brotha man but we got away with one this time.Thats it from NOLA im out and gonna leave this unique crew of fans to chat among themselves....PS I too pray we meet in the Big Show....peace
September 23, 2008
2:59 PM
Greg writes:
As I said, they missed the call. They could be 1-2. I'm not arguing that point.
But I'm just bringing up the fact that it wasn't SD or NO that made a play in those situations. So its like you are asking for luck.
Luck that the opposing QB will just drop the ball, or luck that when the defense stops you, they were lined up in the neutral zone.
Have you ever seen a kick returned for a TD and there was a clip called 40 yards away, well behind the play. It never would have affected the return. Those plays stink. Jude, it sounds like that's the type of play you are hoping for. You are asking for a lucky break.
How about a 4th and 20 and the QB throws incomplete, but the cornerback touched the receiver on the shoulder at 7 yards. 5 yard penalty, automatic 1st down.
Those are just lucky plays.
I hear you totally that a penalty is a penalty. I'm not saying they shouldn't call it because Winborn didn't make the play.
What I'm saying is that your team didn't do what it needed to in order to win the game. If Winborn had burst across the line before the snap and stopped the runner, then that's a different story.
If a Charger had hit Cutler and forced the fumble, I would feel a lot worse for them (well, within reason).
That's where I'm going with my comments.
Honestly, if roles were reversed, we'd all be pissed. But I would also realize that my team failed to make the plays and not go onto Charger and Saint websites and stir up @#%&.
September 23, 2008
3:10 PM
broncosjustwon13 writes:
I agree as previously stated ALL OF US, even Champ Bailey is acknowledgable to the fact that we got lucky, luck did help us to 3-0, but as a true fan, I'm hoping that everyone else will see in the weeks to come that we deserve that record because of the heart of the team. We are nowhere near as ready and prepared as the chargers and saints to be united as a team, we have VERY young guys and our veteran leaders are Bailey, Williams, Stokley, and Graham. We are coming together well and playing very whole heartedly.
September 23, 2008
3:27 PM
Hamma writes:
Man i listen to you Pony fans and you guys will never nut up to the truth.You know your team is notorious for getting the calls you guys have done it to us for years,Dont worry Saints fans the Browns are gonna drop the Hamma on this Pony team in Nov. Sean payton or whatever his name is reported a bad non call to the league all he is doing is reporting to make the system of offciating a better and more affective unit.But the thin air has jaded you pony fans in the brain to think that your team is not a lucky bunch with those zebra calls and non calls.Cant wait till the 6th...Oh and greg whose stirring @#$% i am see you in Cleveland in NOV!!!!
September 23, 2008
3:29 PM
SteveC writes:
Yes the refs screwed up but they make bad calls in every game. The Broncos are getting lucky but they are still 3-0. It may not be pretty but a win is a win and I'll take it. I'm sure all the Bolts and Saints fans wouldn't be crying if the refs screwed up in their favor, so get over it. The game is not reviewable and they are not going to stop after each and every play to see if there was some sort of infraction. We won, you lost, you had 58 minutes to win the game, you didn't, you never even led. Get over it.
September 23, 2008
4:13 PM
Just Me writes:
What a bunch of whiners - Sean, you suck dude. How about the BLATANT holding penalties that should have been called on your left tackle and guard, or #94 pancaking our QB after you received warning just this past week from Goodell about not getting vicious about QB tackling? It was your team that missed two critical field goals, and your D that didn't keep us out of the end zone. You know, Dan Reeves and John Elway used to say that it was never one or two calls or plays that cost the team a game, that if they had really played well and been ready, they would have won despite them. But you childish pansies around the league are unbelievable, what a bunch of cry-babies. Time to change out of your diapers and learn that in football you make your own breaks.
September 23, 2008
9:08 PM
OakRaidFan writes:
I recently found out that Mike Pereira is a former
Bronco (at least, according to my source). If that's in fact true, then it would help to explain a lot of calls, from the Tuck Rule game in 2001 (Raiders @ Pats), to the calls this season v. both San Diego & New Orleans. Verifications, anyone? Contradictions? Please feel free to chime in. Thanks.
September 24, 2008
3:24 AM
BRONCOSSMASHMOUTHFB. writes:
MAN IT LOOKS LIKE THESE SAINTS FANS NEED SOME CHEESE WITH ALL THAT WINE. KEEP THE TELEVISIONS TUNED IN BECAUSE THE BRONCOS ARE ONLY GOING TO GET BETTER AS THIS SEASON PROGRESSES.
September 24, 2008
11:45 AM
JAOSINTS writes:
No call, bad call whatever, it comes down to making plays when we need to. I am a Saints fan and have been forever. 2nd and Goal, 3rd and 1, these we have to make. we have to execute. Reggie can't do it, Drew can't do it, it takes 11 to execute a play. Second guess, yes, where was Deuce in these 1 yard scenarios ??? Coach says the game plan was made and Duece did not know, HELLO, Duece is the game paln in short yardage !!!! One call no poor execution Yes !!!
September 24, 2008
4:58 PM
Lannie writes:
It wasn't the ref's who allowed the Broncos offense to score 38 and 34 points. Wasn't that the cry babies defense? Quit whinning and stop the Broncos offense on the turf, if you can!!
Cutler has what it takes. Finally someone that's on Big Johns level !!
September 26, 2008
8:55 AM
BucsFan writes:
I find it funny that the Broncos fans are trying to blame the Saints because the penalty wasn't called. I'm not even a Saints fan but I happened to be watching the game and even from a fans perspective he was obviously lined up in the neutral zone. I could only assume that the ref was blind in one eye and couldn't see out the other or he was just hoping that the play was close enough that it would go unnoticed. If the play was that easy to see on my 20 inch TV low def TV I can only imagine how easy it was to see standing 5 feet from the incident. You broncos fans complain about the Saints fans whining but if the shoe was on the other foot all of you would have done pooped your pants. What makes the missed call even more ironic is that the same exact call wasn't missed when the Saints did it, Lunbar being the guilty party. And because of that penalty it wound up turning the next play into a touchdown. Instead of a third and long situation as the Saints made the tackle on that down it wound up being 2nd and 1 and because of the down and distance wound up being the perfect time to take a shot deep which the Broncos did and converted. Not to mention the invisible holding play called against the Saints that resulted in a touchdown being taken back. It doesn't matter if they scored on that drive or not it still was an extremely costly play no matter how you cut it and backed the Saints into an almost unconvertable situation. According to all the stats including, Yards, Turnovers, Time of Possesion, and every other stat imaginable the Broncos were outplayed by the better team. It is without a doubt for the second straight weak that the broncos were given a win by the officials. Luckily for every other team that is to less games that the Broncos get to play at their Super Duper Home Field. Maybe the broncos should come up with a special rule for only them where the fans are allowed to throw bricks at the opposing players during plays just to make it even more unfair than it already is to play there. So all you whining Broncos fans complaining about the whining Saints fans, which I only seen 2 rest were other teams fans including myself, need to admit that you were given the game and stop trying to say the Saints did it to themeselves. The Saints outplayed the Broncos in every aspect no matter how you slice it , but no team can overcome the obvious bias the official have showed their home team.
September 26, 2008
8:57 AM
BucsFan0909 writes:
I find it funny that the Broncos fans are trying to blame the Saints because the penalty wasn't called. I'm not even a Saints fan but I happened to be watching the game and even from a fans perspective he was obviously lined up in the neutral zone. I could only assume that the ref was blind in one eye and couldn't see out the other or he was just hoping that the play was close enough that it would go unnoticed. If the play was that easy to see on my 20 inch TV low def TV I can only imagine how easy it was to see standing 5 feet from the incident. You broncos fans complain about the Saints fans whining but if the shoe was on the other foot all of you would have done pooped your pants. What makes the missed call even more ironic is that the same exact call wasn't missed when the Saints did it, Lunbar being the guilty party. And because of that penalty it wound up turning the next play into a touchdown. Instead of a third and long situation as the Saints made the tackle on that down it wound up being 2nd and 1 and because of the down and distance wound up being the perfect time to take a shot deep which the Broncos did and converted. Not to mention the invisible holding play called against the Saints that resulted in a touchdown being taken back. It doesn't matter if they scored on that drive or not it still was an extremely costly play no matter how you cut it and backed the Saints into an almost unconvertable situation. According to all the stats including, Yards, Turnovers, Time of Possesion, and every other stat imaginable the Broncos were outplayed by the better team. It is without a doubt for the second straight weak that the broncos were given a win by the officials. Luckily for every other team that is to less games that the Broncos get to play at their Super Duper Home Field. Maybe the broncos should come up with a special rule for only them where the fans are allowed to throw bricks at the opposing players during plays just to make it even more unfair than it already is to play there. So all you whining Broncos fans complaining about the whining Saints fans, which I only seen 2 rest were other teams fans including myself, need to admit that you were given the game and stop trying to say the Saints did it to themeselves. The Saints outplayed the Broncos in every aspect no matter how you slice it , but no team can overcome the obvious bias the official have showed their home team.
September 26, 2008
9:03 AM
johniebravo816 writes:
http://blogs.rockymountainnews.com/broncos/archives/2008/09/saints_question.html
September 26, 2008
5:49 PM
nmbronco1 writes:
Just looked into this blog and all I can say... what a bunch of crybabies! In Spanish, llorons - not a single one of you New Oleans fans are saying a word about the FACT that the rushing touchdown was not even CLOSE - missed crossing the goal line by 6 inches at least. We Bronco fans have seen many close calls go against us through the years. It's nice when a couple go our way, but it still doesn't even it out. All of us want our team to win - but if the whistle blows, or the flag is (or isn't) thrown - that's the way the football bounces. I played in Jr. High, HS, and college - the rules are the same now as they were 30 years ago, and no one is 100% satisfied by the calls. Get robots and computers involved in football and you STILL won't have calls made accurately 100% of the time. That's part of what is GREAT about football - that, and the fact that you get to slam your opponent. You limp-wristed wimps just go back to your cubicles already, ok?