Littleton Wal-Mart
As a citizen of Centennial, I am watching closely the debate about whether a Wal-Mart should be built in Littleton. As I, along with others, wait to find out what will happen, I wonder: Do we really need another Wal-Mart in Colorado?
What I know about Wal-Mart is that they do not treat their employees fairly. Their employees earn minimum wage and sometimes have to work overtime for no pay. The only good thing I can think of about Wal-Mart is that they offer jobs to people who need them. But even though these people are employed, they still don’t get paid enough to survive on. And the lack of health care benefits means that most of the employees and their families cannot pay for medical care in order to stay healthy enough to continue working.
I think Colorado does not need another Wal-Mart, and I hope Littleton residents vote
This letter has not been edited.
dont worry, the wal mart WILL be built and there is NOTHING you can do about it.
Posted by Fresh on May 31, 2007 03:02 PM"dont worry, the wal mart WILL be built and there is NOTHING you can do about it."
Ahhh yes, Fresh is back with another uplifting message on the virtues of persistence.
Posted by Charles B on May 31, 2007 03:35 PMI bet I am 100% right though
Posted by Fresh on May 31, 2007 04:05 PMwow, what a load.
Wal-mart doesn't treat their employees fairly? Give me a break. according to whom? I think the employees themselves can make that decision.
The employees earn Min wage? BS. THe local Wal-mart starts cashiers out at $8.50. I happened to notice that the other day.
Don't get paid enough to survive on? I don't see a herd of dead Wal-mart employees in the street. Way to overstate your point.
Every employee has the right to purchase subsidized health insurance from the company. Oddly enough, it is cheaper than what I pay.
Cannot stay healthy enough to continue working? Wow, what planet did you get that from? Love to see proof of that.
I hope they ram the Wal-mart down your throat.
Posted by Shawn on May 31, 2007 04:27 PMMore Wal-Mart propaganda. If you want to know how they treat the employees then ask the employees, not the unions trying to take things over.
Most employees there are part-time. They're income is generally supplemental for their households and most have health insurance through their spouses employer or other sources. The full-time employees I've spoken to seem no more or less happy than most retail clerks in nonunion jobs.
Not to many companies even provide bennies for part-timers but hey, maybe we need to force more regulations on Wal-Mart so they have to raise prices, reduce benefits, lay people off, etc...
Posted by KW on May 31, 2007 04:42 PM Shawn & KW,
Wow ! you guys should be nominated for a Nobel for compassion.
But seriously, need you both be reminded of Mal-Warts' ads proudly proclaiming that everything that they sold was "MADE IN THE U.S.A !"...........?
At least 'till they discovered they could get it cheaper in Mexico....
Then, they screwed the Mexicans when they found they could get it cheaper still in China.
Mal-Wart cares for nothing but the bottom line, and if they could find a way to make a buck off selling your kids, do you really think they would hesitate for a minute?
Sam Walton would roll over in his grave if he saw what his greedy offspring have done to the business he created, and how they treat employees as well as customers.
hmmmm, DMZ, you need an econ lesson.
I assume you are only talking Wal-mart, cuz they are the ONLY company buying stuff from China. Why, I went into JC Penney's the other day and everything was made from US Flags and handspun kitten fur..... You see the sarcasm, I hope?
Wal-mart buys from whomever can give them the cheapest price for a product and then they buy a ton of that product. Some is made in the US, Some in China and some in other parts of the world....just like everyone else.
So, time to jump off your high horse and into your Ford and head to Target, owned by the French.
Time to grow up and learn econ.
I buy ammo at Wal-mart... Made in the US.
Posted by Shawn on May 31, 2007 08:15 PMIf Walmart treats their employees so great, why are so many on the public gravy train?
If you work full time and still have to collect from me, I would say Walmart is being subsidized by us.
What a great place to work.
Posted by Rick on May 31, 2007 09:04 PMIf Walmart treats their employees so great, why are so many on the public gravy train?
If you work full time and still have to collect from me, I would say Walmart is being subsidized by us.
What a great place to work.
Posted by Rick on May 31, 2007 09:04 PMI steal my ammo from your pick-em-up truck when you're in the bar.
I'm not surprised you buy from the people who will, given a chance, steal your job.
You're just too conservative to know better.
And , also, I don't have to explain when I'm being sarcastic.
Time to grow a brain.
Or buy one from wal-Mart.
I love it when the uneducated start talkig about how bad wal mart is. If it is such a bad employeer why do they need more stores? why would anyone go to work there?
I love wal mart and it pisses off the union thugs who cant get it.
wal mart has a place in the economy in providing jobs, and a place where people can shop and not spend an arm and a leg to get the items they need.
I'm with Sean, what is wrong with a store that employees ALOT of people (and not at minimum wage) and sells items at a reasonable price? I think many of these posters watch too much TV, then jump on any bandwagon that comes along.
Posted by tmr on June 1, 2007 07:03 AMBuild it, and they will come....
Posted by tmr on June 1, 2007 07:04 AMEmploy illegal aliens, and they will come.
I will NOT spend one dime in Mal-Wart.
But feel free to support the largest exploiter of workers on the planet if you so choose.
You may need to work there yourself, after they put YOU out of a well-paying job.
They voted yes on a Wal-Mart in Westminster. One of the questions people asked the city council before the vote was whether or not Wal Mart had paid them any money. They said no but after the vote was done it was revealed that the city had received money from Wal Mart. Oh well, the vote was over too late to change anything. It reminded me of the whole going to War in Iraq and the imminent threat of WMD's. Oh well , they didn't have any but we already had the war. What are you going to do? too late to change anything.
Posted by Aaaaarrrggghh! on June 1, 2007 08:25 AMI guess dmz grows and raises everything he eats, spins his own cotton for clothes etc... since he refuses to buy anything from a company that (according to dmz) exploits the workers.
I'll bet you don't have any problem buying gasoline from Citgo though, do you?
Posted by KW on June 1, 2007 09:06 AMI like this line:
"I'm not surprised you buy from the people who will, given a chance, steal your job"- DMZ
Steal your job? Do you own your job? Are you ENTITLED to it?
Posted by Mike on June 1, 2007 09:17 AMBuild the Wal-mart .....illegals need the jobs us Americans won't do!
Posted by A on June 1, 2007 12:52 PMWalMart cashiers make over $8.50 an hour. McDonalds cashiers make $5.15 an hour with no health benefits. Why is there no outrage every time a new McDonalds opens up?
Also, if $8.50 an hour is not enough to "survive" on, what is? Liberals often say employees need to be paid a living wage. But, if someone is earning a wage, isn't that person living?
Perhaps, some liberals on this forum can shed light on this notion of a living wage. How much per hour is a living wage?
Posted by John II on June 1, 2007 01:26 PMJohn- I would like to add a follow-up question to yours.
WHY do employers need to pay a living wage? (however 'living wage' is defined)
Posted by Mike on June 1, 2007 01:40 PMJohn- I don't think it's a stereotype. I think calling a liberal over-emotional and irrational is just redundant.
I saw the exchange on the other post; that was pretty funny.
Posted by Mike on June 1, 2007 04:01 PMJohn- I just read the first few pages and, when I have a little more time, I will read the rest.
I don't think we are going to get any answers to our questions.
Posted by Mike on June 1, 2007 04:47 PMI'm sure Old Grouch will wander here eventually and give a long-winded non-answer to our direct questions.
Posted by John II on June 1, 2007 04:56 PMAnd tell us how he hates labels, and then call us right wing-nuts.
Posted by Mike on June 1, 2007 04:59 PMKW,
How are you my friend? Well I hope.
In answer to your sarcasm, the best answer is no answer.
But since you're interested, No, I won't buy petroleum products from companies who support terrorism, read BP, (who does it's best to hide the fact that BP stands for British Petroleum...NOT Beyond Petroleum, or Shell,
Who helped turn the Rocky Mountain Arsenal into the most polluted superfund cleanup site on the planet, and, after taking their profit, left the U.S. taxpayer with a 500 million $ tab, and to add insult to injury, they are a DUTCH Company)
There are two kinds of people I hate, intolerant people and the DUTCH. (Sorry A.P. for stealing one of your best lines.)
Peace...(I add that because it drives Cons nuts) One of my favorite things, besides Peace, that is.
"Peace...(I add that because it drives Cons nuts) One of my favorite things, besides Peace, that is."
dmz is the same person who said Mr. Bush should be shot. Is that his idea of peace?
Posted by John II on June 1, 2007 06:39 PMI'm sure you'll look GREAT in your new walmart diggs.
Where them to your job interview for high tech or creative job and whatch yourself being kicked to the curb.
I wonder if the Bushies but their clothying at Walmart.
Posted by rick on June 1, 2007 06:48 PMI'll pay anybody that has posted here saying that 8.50 an hour is good, 10.00 an hour to work for me.
And I'll give you health insurance.
John II & Mike,
It's so nice to be appreciated.
rick,
What kind of work is it? And where might you be holding interviews?
As to the topic - which, if memory serves, is Wal-Mart - the only question there is the one asked of any retailer anywhere. Does the store have the goods one wants, at the best price? If so, that's where one shops. If not, that's what all the rest of the retail stores are there for, places to shop till one is satisfied.
And for the benefit of John II, who alsways has to ask idiotic questions in order to be able to understand simple English: "Best price" here would be a matter of totally individual meaning; and would have no particular relationship to fossilized ideas of what might be meant by the 10th Amendment to the Constitution.
And for the benefit of Mike, the only label involved is "shopper"; or, if you prefer, "person seeking to purchase".
All clear now, fellows?
Posted by Old Grouch on June 2, 2007 07:49 AM"All clear now, fellows?"- Old Grouch.
No, because no one has attempted to answer the two questions John and I asked. (I'm not surprised)
John- "How much per hour is a living wage?"
Mike- "WHY do employers need to pay a living wage? (however 'living wage' is defined)"
Would anyone care to answer those two questions?
Posted by Mike on June 2, 2007 08:44 AM"I'll pay anybody that has posted here saying that 8.50 an hour is good, 10.00 an hour to work for me."- Rick
I don't remember anyone saying that. You would first have to define 'good'. The $8.50 an hour was used as a comparison to other entry level jobs; McDonald's, for example.
Why is there the belief that a company has a responsibility to pay any wage, other than what the market demands? And, why the expectation that a company provide health insurance? They don't provide for my food, clothing, shelter, transportation, etc... Why should they provide health insurance for me?
Posted by Mike on June 2, 2007 09:00 AMJohn II,
Specify, in full detail, the socio-economic mileu in which your question is being asked.
Mike,
There is no "need", just as there is no "need" for the employer to continue to be in business. There is a certain amount of inter-connectedness there, related again to the socio-economic mileu in which the matter is being considered.
Posted by Old Grouch on June 2, 2007 09:06 AMOld Grouch- So, why is there the constant criticism of Wal-Mart for not paying a "living wage"?
If their compensation package is not adequate, then they won't be able to attract competent employees. They don't seem to have that problem, which tells me they do pay enough.
Posted by Mike on June 2, 2007 09:19 AM
Mike,
Why are you asking me that? I gave my opinion on Wal Mart above, when I simply said that one shops where one feels one is getting the best buy. That isn't bashing. That's simply a fact of life.
Posted by Old Grouch on June 2, 2007 01:04 PMOld Grouch- You seem to be the only person willing to answer any questions. Others bash Wal-Mart, and then don't explain why they have an obligation to pay a certain wage above the minimum wage. I was hoping you had some insight here, since DMZ and Rick aren't willing to respond.
Posted by Mike on June 2, 2007 01:34 PMHas anyone checked the wage and benefits packages at Wal-Mart's biggest competitors such as Target and Kmart? Are they similar or are Wal-Mart's competitors paying a significantly higher wage and including a vast benefits package? Why should Wal-Mart be held to a higher standard than it's competitors? Could it just be a tactic in the UFCW union's mission to collect union dues from Wal-Mart employees?
Posted by Rick on June 4, 2007 07:21 AMWhether or not we like Wal-Mart the company, the truth is that the store in Littleton has nothing to do with Wal-Mart and everything to do with the sensitive riparian site Wal-Mart has chosen on the South Platte River. Littleton Against Wal-Mart has repeatedly said that they do not oppose a sensitively designed Wal-Mart store in the city of Littleton provided that Wal-Mart will build on a corridor in which there is already similar big-box stores.
Littleton should take the example of Monument. Wal-Mart wanted to build a store on the south side of Baptist Road in unincorporated El Paso county in order to skirt design standard rules by the city of Monument. The citizens of Monument weren't against Wal-Mart, but they had already zoned a plot of land called "Monument Marketplace" with the infrastructure to handle big box stores like Wal-Mart. The city had already spent the money to improve the roads and sites for Monument Marketplace. In contrast, Wal-Mart's decision to build on the south side of Baptist Road would lead to the city of Monument and El Paso County incurring millions of dollars in taxpayer expense to do traffic mitigation, road widening, interchange upgrades, and flood mitigation to support Wal-Mart. The citizens of Monument showed up at the El Paso County Commissioners meeting, and Wal-Mart finally backed down and built on the prepared big-box site in Monument Marketplace.
The citizens of Littleton are asking the same thing -- they are not against a Wal-Mart that fits in with their city's vision plan and is built on a site which will not damage the riparian environment or lead to costly infrastruture expenses for the city. Rather, they support a Wal-Mart on a site where it belongs -- near other big box stores of similar type. Not feet away from floodplains, sensitive river environments, parks, and single-family neighborhoods.
Posted by RedFox on June 5, 2007 07:51 PMThe problem is that's exactly what every anti-Walmart group says and their possible legitimate points get lost in the union propaganda noise. Don't kid yourself, if the same store was being built near other big boxes, there would just be a different arguement like "how many big boxes do we need there". Iif not by you, the UFCW would use someone else as the front person. If it was being built in the middle of the desert 100 miles from the nearest human, they would complain. If it was being built on a toxic waste site, they would complain about that too. The only way they will stop complaining is when they unionize Walmart. Then they will shift their complaining toward target or Kmart to try to collect union dues from their employees.
You may have some legitimate concerns, but the food plain is a stretch. Why would you "really" care about that? Things are built near and even in flood plains all the time. It sounds like just another roadblock that you are trying to throw out and the hurts your credibility.
Posted by Rick on June 7, 2007 12:34 PM