Thanks for article on teaching
Thanks to the News for publishing an article by someone who knows something about education ( Erik Palmer,
How is it that those who know the least about education ( in the public schools ) spout off the most about it? Oh, I forgot! I once saw Mr. R. ( on the telly ) in front of a classroom at George Washington High School; I must admit that he did a good job of keeping the students¹ attention - with the principal, governor, and several state patrol members in the room.
That situation would not have hurt my class control one bit, but unfortunately, I didn
In his article, Mike
This letter has not been edited.
and I bet the cta and the nea all thank you for your rant. you mention that the schools are a public service renderend at no cost and paid for by taxes. well if taxes pay for it then there is a huge cost and it keeps getting bigger.
why is it that in classrooms today spelling is no longer a requirement for doing well?
why are teachers so afraid of vouchers? if they are truly providing a wonderful education why worried that the parents of students would take a voucher and run to a private school?
why do teachers need tenure in elementary school middle school and high school? the good teachers out there are hurt by the bad ones, and in my opinion there are more and more bad ones all the time.
sorry you had your feelings hurt but maybe you should try to provide a great education to students and show other teachers how its done, and then maybe the public will have a different view on public education.
one other question for you, why do private schools pay less for teachers and have better results? please do tell us that it is because you have to take all students and not cherry pick them.
02:54PM to someone he doesn't know from Adam:
"maybe you should try to provide a great education to students"
Teachers in a large part have failed to do what they took the job for, they have failed to teach. Sheridan schools will NOT assign homework because it involves too much busy time. I hear more and more of that idea from many friends who have students in various schools. It seems the teachers are afriad to do their job and teach. Homework reinforces what they supposedly "learn" in class. By assigning homework, the student accomplishes several goals, 1)reinforcement of the days lessons, 2) cutting away time that may be spent involving themselves with gangs or other activities (parents are greatly needed there as well) and 3) prepare them for long term goals in life i.e. college, higher paying jobs where learning is a constant. If a teacher refuses this, they have already failed the student. By the way, don't bother contacing Sheridan schools with these concerns, they will ignore you.
Posted by Nick on September 11, 2007 03:38 PMI read Mr. Palmer's speak out column. Just as the SOX act of 2002 mandates external audit controls, I don't think we can look to a teacher for an unbiased audit of the public school system, of which they are a part.
As far as R. Kiefer's letter is concerned, I am having a hard time comprehending what the point of topic is. Is R. Kiefer's intent to bestow glorious praise onto Mr. Palmer, or to shun the opinion of Mr. Rosen (maybe both)?
R. Kiefer wrote "Erik Palmer is an experienced teacher, and has brought out, factually and without venom, several points that any teacher in the public schools must recognize, but that others may not..."
What?
Here are the five "facts" of which Mr. Palmer wrote:
"No teacher ever got into the teaching business for money." - While I am sure, and evidence will support this, that the MAJORITY of teachers do not, I am just as sure (just as the line in 'The Breakfast Club') that some teachers get into the profession because they still get summers off and a pretty good rate of pay. A VERY good friend of mine is a teacher in the Boulder school district, and that is EXACTLY why he chose the teaching profession. I know this, because I asked him. So this is a generalization at best, but far from a "fact."
"Any teacher with fiver years experience knows more about children and teaching than all the radio talk show hosts, newspaper columnists, and letter writers put together." - Pretty verbose statement. There is no quantitative, nor even qualitative way to prove or disprove that statement. I would have a hard time calling that a fact. I wouldn't even call it an "educated guess." But when someone writes in an absolute, the likelihood of it being a fact, is diminished greatly.
"It is not true that anyone can step in and be a great teacher." - I would agree this is indeed a fact.
"Since there are no mentally retarded or autistic or behavior-disordered or emotionally disturbed or special-education kids at them (private schools), should exclusive schools get public money?" - This is supposed to be a fact? Mr. Palmer, I think your next refresher should be centered in research. This statement is a lie. http://privateschool.about.com/od/schoolsneeds/Special_Needs_Schools_Online.htm
I don't know what R. Kiefer's intent of this letter is, but with critical analysis, MY determination is, if R. Kiefer and Erik Palmer are representative of the way "facts" are taught to our children in the public school, it is no wonder Colorado students are not keeping up with their peers in other states.
Sorry to be so harsh, but I really am trying to dissect and understand the issues here and this letter does not help in any way.
Posted by on September 11, 2007 04:13 PMThe post at 4:13 is mine.
Posted by Dan2 on September 11, 2007 04:16 PM4:13-
The author may not know everything about educating kids, but I'm sure most teachers know more about educating kids than Mike Rosen does.
Let's tone down Kiefer's comments a bit:
"Since there are no mentally retarded or autistic or behavior-disordered or emotionally disturbed or special-education kids at them (private schools), should exclusive schools get public money?"
Public schools have to take those children. Private schools do not. Naturally, the private schools would just as soon not take them because they are a much greater burden than other children. I am sure that are many private schools which don't take them or take very few of them. I wonder if there are any which are willing to take all comers?
"Any teacher with fiver years experience knows more about children and teaching than all the radio talk show hosts, newspaper columnists, and letter writers put together."
Very few if any radio talk show hosts, newspaper columnists and letter writers such as Dan 2 know as much about teaching children as the average teacher.
"No teacher ever got into the teaching business for money."
Most teachers, I expect the great majority of them, get into teaching for altruistic reasons, that is, because they are interested in teaching our future. Of course the money is important; teachers, like most of us, need to eat and even have families of their own. And, yes, the summer months are an important element, but a person would be a damn fool to get into such a trying and low paying profession for that reason. They are much more altruistic than the average letter writer such as Dan 2.
Posted by Truth on September 12, 2007 07:41 AM
Many private schools will take special needs children but those kids usually have other financial needs that make it very hard to get the extra money for private schools. The federal government will provide for special education needs for those students in any school per a court decision. The main problem is getting the money for the special kids to attend the private school in the first place.
Private schools succeed, in part at least, for a very simple reason: the teachers are in charge. The curriculum is set and the teachers are given the responsibility to teach. They are not babysitters. Students who refuse to learn or attempt to disrupt the class are dealt with in seconds. There may be a policy of review but the teacher evicts the student and the class continues. Most private school students have the advantage of parents who have an interest in education. Getting kicked out of school is one of the things the kids know is going to get them in trouble.
Maybe this is too simplistic but it should be tried in the public schools. I want a voucher system so I can give my voucher to my local public school. The teachers in Federal Heights Elementary School are dedicated, competent and sending home notes and homework for my second grader. This is probably because they have one heck of a principal who established a set of standards which are enforced. Other schools should take a look and copy them.
Okay, most teachers are saints who know considerably more than Mike Rosen.
In Colorado the graduation rate is below 70%. Graduates frequently can't read, write or do arithmetic up to minimal standards, and their knowledge of civics, science, and history is frequently unacceptable.
From what I see, our per child funding is at record highs (after inflation) around the country, and record numbers of children are being educated outside the public school systems.
In my elementary school class, I was one of 37-38 students, depending on the year. There was no teacher's aide. Students obeyed the teacher and did their homework. Homework was graded promptly and handed back. The teachers did not use physical discipline, but the principal did. We had art, music, and P.E. classes. There was one polio victim with physical handicaps in our neighborhood and he was mainstreamed with other students his age.
Now, aside from higher salaries, what do teachers need today to do as well as the teachers did when I was a kid?
Posted by Yaakov Watkins on September 12, 2007 01:13 PMYaakov 1:13
The answers are numerous: kids that want to learn, good role models, parents that give a crap, parents that hold their kids accountable and don't whine and bitch when Johnny gets in trouble, etc. Do you need more?
Free education? Have you checked all the fees it takes to start the school year not to mention the ones that are assessed all throught the year?
I listen to teachers whine all day and I also hear them talk about the kid they are passing just so they won't have to put up with them the following year.
They can't handle the load without a para. You should hear the whining when the para is absent! What about those teachers when I went to school who had 50 in each class, had to correct ALL THEIR OWN papers and do all their own "busy" work. PATHETIC!
Posted by c on September 12, 2007 04:08 PM"They can't handle the load without a para."
Good point, 04:48PM. We need to supply more paras to the teachers. First, of course, we need to find out what a para is.
Posted by Truth on September 13, 2007 08:21 AMThe psychological foundation for the continuing disrespect for, and misunderstanding of, Teaching as a profession, is found in an old cliche, altogether too often repeated through the ages: "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach."
From the time of the fall of the Western Roman Empire, literacy, and the discipline of imparting the knowledge of HOW to think, has been totally secondary to the ideas of conquering; ruling and lording over others; getting and keeping the most, while seeing to it that everyone else gets as little as possible of the leftovers; and indoctrinating children as to WHAT to think, and when and where to think it, as "all that's necessary".
Some modern examples may be found in the area of CSAP, for instance. Teach to the test. Make the point of getting the right marks in the right little boxes; and that's the "measure of teaching performance". So Forth. (You can certainly provide a host of similar examples for yourself.)
Public Education still strives to keep alive the premise that one should learn HOW to think. And, this is a never ending struggle with those who want nothing more than a docile, and obedient, response to indoctrination as to WHAT to think, and the corollarys of when and where one is allowed to think it.
For those parents who want their children to learn HOW to think, the public school is still doing its best, even with all the interference and opposition it has from the other side. For those parents who want their children to learn only WHAT to think, believe, and parrot throughout the rest of their lives, the private and parochial schools are there, claiming the idea of "better education".
I opened the doors on my first teaching job 60 years ago September 1st. And I have had experience in both public and private school areas. My support is always on the side of the EDUCATORS, having seen what the INDOCTRINATORS usually produce. If you want your child educated for the 21st Century, and beyond, get out there and get busy supporting your PUBLIC SCHOOL and its TEACHERS!
Posted by Old Grouch on September 13, 2007 12:05 PMTruth -
A para is a paraprofessional, in other words a teacher's aide. They are today's teachers' right arm.
Posted by c on September 13, 2007 07:34 PMIndeed, it should help to have more paras to help the teas. It would also help to have more pars who are willing to spend time in the cl rm. And we need to teach people that shorthand is for court reporters.
As for being the right arm of teachers, most of the many teachers I have had experience with did a good job using only their left arm..
However, it's okay sometimes to use abbrevations. For example the comment by c that "I listen to teachers whine all day" is BS, and I don't mean a bachelor of science.
Posted by Truth on September 14, 2007 01:11 PM