A DIFFERING VIEW/Anti-smoking zealots hide behind casino workers
In an editorial titled “Casinos’ shell game” (Nov. 5), the Rocky argued that casinos in Blackhawk should not be allowed to construct semi-enclosed terraces or rooftop smoking patios and decks.
The reasoning was that any partially enclosed area (in other words, any area that is even marginally comfortable, and doesn’t leave smokers freezing out in the cold) constitutes an “indoor smoking area” and is therefore forbidden by the Colorado Clean Indoor Air Act.
One of the act’s “principal architects,” anti-smoking crusader Sen. Ken Gordon, is quoted as saying the primary intent of this legislation “was to make sure the people working in casinos aren’t doing it in smoke-filled rooms.”
Fair enough. But there does not appear to be any necessity whatsoever for these employees to go into these smoking areas. And even if they did venture out briefly (perhaps to turn on a heater or change an ashtray), these areas are still open to the outside air, and thus well-ventilated.
The fact is that the Colorado Clean Indoor Air Act was never so much about protecting the health of bar and casino employees as it was about a vehemently anti-smoking minority within our legislature who simply cannot abide the idea of anyone smoking anywhere, anytime, period.
We will doubtless see, in the upcoming legislative session, further efforts to accomplish a complete ban in all public places (including outdoor patios) under the guise of “closing the loopholes.”
Since there are only a handful of venues remaining that qualify for an indoor smoking exemption, any additional legislation to further restrict smoking will represent nothing more that a solution in search of a problem.
Mark Herzfeld is a resident of Denver.
The Rocky's antismoking stance is well known,and it's not surprising it would go after the casinos.It is also not surprising that the antis would use casino workers as human shields. As has been credibly explained more than once on this blog,the smoking ban is garbage law based on junk science. Can you imagine phony health considerations nullifying citizens' rights? Here it is,folks.Right here,right now.
And if you still think the antis can be bargained with,or reasoned with,consider the murder of David Rossiter by an off-duty sheriff's deputy,said to be a jail guard.News coverage of this killing has been scant and short on facts,but it is known that there was a cigarette butt involved,and what appears to be a road/gun rage confrontation started by the deputy,who has been given extra paid days off. He's not been charged with any offense.
That is exactly right...not only is it "ok" to take away our liberties and property rights, it's also ok to discriminate and use hate crimes all in the name of "health". There has been quite a few stories in the last few years where by someone was hurt or killed because they were smoking. People love to have an excuse to hate. If you are wondering where to find these stories you can go to smokersclubinc.com. I know there are rumors that Ken Gordon wants to take away the patios for smoking but also the cigar bars. Then the tobacco control is after the airport now. From what I understand our airport is a hub so that will drastically effect them. On top of that I heard that when Southwest Air came in here, part of their contract is that we are a "smoking area" airport. If they get away with banning these exemptions also, next they will come after your home and car. It is not going to stop. On top of that we will see a lot of other bans on other issues. Don't be fooled. Eventually it will be something you enjoy, such as what kind of vehicle you drive, or food you eat...again all in the name of "Health". You need to tell them you are a grownup and can make decisions for yourself and we need to vote these idiots out of office!
Posted by Lisa on November 13, 2007 05:17 AMGovernor Ritter wants to increase taxes? Never have I seen more of a fiscally irresponsibility action by a person, who is supposed to represent the publics best interests, in the light of decreasing taxes from bars and taverns due to the smoking ban the legislature enacted and he edorses, and in January adding even more tax losses from casinos under the same ban that he approves of. And did you know what's next if he doesn't get what he wants, why it's increasing the tax on casinos, possibly up to 40% as a result of the provisions in the law passed allowing gambling, which will no doubt cause some or most of the independent casinos to close their doors. Then, I guess, he'll justify that by saying it's for the wellbeing and protection of the public's health while at the same time trying to explain how he caused a further decrease in tax revenue, not to mention driving bars, taverns and casinos out of business and putting thousands of people out of work to the detriment of them and their families.
Let me try to explain this another way; You know you're going to need more tax revenue in future so you enact a law that will decrease tax revenue from bars and taverns through a ban on smoking and keep trying to add more businesses, casinos, cigar bars, DIA to that list and also raising their cost of operating through higher taxes on alcohol along with increased utility, insurance and other operating costs, so you have to ask the voters to approve a tax hike on every taxpayer to pay for what the majority of bluecollar workers can't afford for themselves or their families. And if the zealots get their way, fast food establishments are next along with smokers and obese people loosing their jobs if they don't slim down or quit smoking so that will add even more lost revenue, and the zealots list goes on and on ad nauseam. You can't get what you want if in the process of selling it to the public, the public sees you destroying the sources of the money needed to pay for it and making plans to dig deeper in your pockets to get it.
But politicians, by their own admissions, are incapable of considering the facts in the process of enacting laws or looking down the road to the consequences of their actions, just like like zealots are incapable of, so we must not treat them wrong. No, not wrong, we should throw the whole lying lot of them out of Our Government's public offices and ban them from ever running for public offices of any kind forever. Incompetence is expected from young children who have not learned, but incompetence from, so called, adult legislators and public officials who claim to know better than We The People how we should live our lives is completely unacceptable and cannot be forgiven.
and its these same anti smoking folks who want to raise the taxes on smokes to fund their social programs. now how is that to work? I hope more tobacco users will do as I do and use the internet or stop by a more friendly neighboring state to make their purchases.
how are all the anti smoking and progressive liberals going to get every thing paid for if it all depends on smokers and taxes on their products? oops they didnt think of that did they.
They didn't think then and there is no sign they intend to learn how any time soon.
Posted by Allen Campbell on November 13, 2007 08:37 AMBy the way, what's the inernet web site and is it cheaper.
Posted by Allen Campbell on November 13, 2007 08:42 AMHow do you smoke when you're crying all of the time?
Posted by chokingonyourstench on November 13, 2007 08:45 AMKen Gordon rocks!
Posted by drew on November 13, 2007 08:57 AMSmokers: Notice is hereby served. Your days are numbered. DIA will be next, then the casinos, then your cars, lastly your homes. Trust me, it WILL happen.
Posted by on November 13, 2007 10:17 AMAllen,and anyone else interested-awhile back I looked around for Internet smoke shops,and did find some with pretty good prices,but the American brands they had were either made overseas,or were being sold at close to local retail.I think it's a nice idea to stick our collective thumb in the Revenue Department's eye,but I'm not quite ready to buy what might be (possibly poisoned)Chinese knockoffs.I'll keep looking.
On another thread,someone was talking about smokes being sold reasonably on Native American reservations.I wonder where the closest one is to the Metro area.
It has already happened in your homes, talk to the condo owners who paid $250.000 for their home and now can't smoke in it cause the HOA says they can't. I have always said WHY shud it be up to a few politicians, why couldn't the public vote on it? Many non-smokers agree the law is unfair, the choice should be up to the owners of the business, it called freedom of choice!
Posted by smokerfor60yrs on November 13, 2007 11:05 AMA brief thought for Drew, ChockingOnYourStench, and the unknown who is serving notice about DIA, as well as Senator Gordon.
Please consider the facts presented in "Bush Gets It Right VII: The People Get It About SCHIP." http://www.forces.org/writers/kjono/files/schip7.htm
The voting public clearly does not care about your need to hate. The voting public gets it that your intolerance equals their tax increases. The voting public understands that there is a small mandate mugger minority among us who apparently believe that their personal preference is other folks' legal mandate. We know that, we understand that.
Problem for you is nobody cares about your agenda anymore. Folks understand that Social Marketing programs based on targeted intolerance predictably and necessarily fail because they do not add value for the economy or to society.
Which is why in survey after survey and election after election responsible voters and nonsmokers are strongly turning against anti-tobacco and other agendas that can only be supported by by those with sufficient mental disabilities that they believe their hate trumps economic reality and sound public policy.
And, no, we don't even care if you take the time to read the above-referenced commentary. Responsible voters and caring citizens are simply pushing folks like you to the extremist fringes of meaningful public discourse where you choose to belong. You can preen in your ignorance or grow up, that is your choice. It is now clear the voting public has moved far beyond tobacco control's intolerance-laden sound bites.
Doesn't it bother you, ChockingOnYourStench, that the only person standing between you and a $35 billion tax increase that will land squarely on your hyper-sensitive nonsmoker's nose is a president with a 24 percent approval rating? Doesn't put you somewhere in the lowest quartile of public opinion?
Think about that in terms of the fact the the biggest swings against tobacco control are occurring among Democrats and Nonsmokers.
Posted by norm kjono on November 13, 2007 11:20 AM60 years - LOL! $250K, and they can't light up!
A fool and his money are soon parted. Sooner if he's a smoker.
Posted by on November 13, 2007 11:23 AMA brief thought for Drew, ChockingOnYourStench, and the unknown who is serving notice about DIA, as well as Senator Gordon.
Please consider the facts presented in "Bush Gets It Right VII: The People Get It About SCHIP." http://www.forces.org/writers/kjono/files/schip7.htm
The voting public clearly does not care about your need to hate. The voting public gets it that your intolerance equals their tax increases. The voting public understands that there is a small mandate mugger minority among us who apparently believe that their personal preference is other folks' legal mandate. We know that, we understand that.
Problem for you is nobody cares about your agenda anymore. Folks understand that Social Marketing programs based on targeted intolerance predictably and necessarily fail because they do not add value for the economy or to society.
Which is why in survey after survey and election after election responsible voters and nonsmokers are strongly turning against anti-tobacco and other agendas that can only be supported by by those with sufficient mental disabilities that they believe their hate trumps economic reality and sound public policy.
And, no, we don't even care if you take the time to read the above-referenced commentary. Responsible voters and caring citizens are simply pushing folks like you to the extremist fringes of meaningful public discourse where you choose to belong. You can preen in your ignorance or grow up, that is your choice. It is now clear the voting public has moved far beyond tobacco control's intolerance-laden sound bites.
Doesn't it bother you, ChockingOnYourStench, that the only person standing between you and a $35 billion tax increase that will land squarely on your hyper-sensitive nonsmoker's nose is a president with a 24 percent approval rating? Doesn't that put you somewhere in the lowest quartile of public opinion?
Think about that in terms of the fact the the biggest swings against tobacco control are occurring among Democrats and Nonsmokers.
Posted by norm kjono on November 13, 2007 11:23 AMI 100% agree with Mr. Herzfeld. As long as the "smoke decks" are not enclosed, but open air facilities, the Colorado Clean Indoor Act should not be applied in that manner. It would be identical to the "smoking ares" at Coors Field and as such should be exempted (from what I could research on this topic)
As far as HOA's prohibiting smoking in your own home, if you are dumb enough to sign the HOA contract, than you get what you deserve. Fight it tooth and nail, because technically, an HOA is for the "community" aspect, and not the interior of one's own property.
I say, if your HOA is now taking the step of limiting what you can do to the INSIDE of your OWN HOME, that is going too far to "protect the property value" and, personally, I would ignore anything they do and FORCE them to get the Government involved. That is just my opinion though.
Posted by Dan2 on November 13, 2007 11:50 AMHas anyone noticed that the three, or is it four, anti- tobacco comments above have all the intellectual content that a bunch of retarded jellyfish could come up with, no offence meant to the other retarded jellyfish that post herein, and all the clarity and certain purpose of a blind armadillo crossing the freeway during rush hour. Rather than fear such riveting drivel, I welcome it. It's a refreashing bowel movement that belongs in the fetid swamp from which it came but, I will defend any idiots right to prove he is one.
Posted by Allen Campbell on November 13, 2007 11:54 AMSmokers are addicts. They are not the majority. Only 21% of americans smoke. IT IS THE LAW. LIVE WITH IT AND STOP YOUR DAMN SNIFFLING!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by on November 13, 2007 12:14 PMIn three recent visits to Colorado casinos, I have observed smokers refusing to not smoke in lines when employees politely asked then not to smoke because of allergies, smokers in restrooms, cigarette dangling from mouth(ugly), smokers in elevators that clearly say "no smoking". Smokers on escalators, where the rest of us 79% have no way to escape their smoke, and at least 10 other rudeness issues by smokers. Looks like you deserve everything coming, a little common sense and politeness and their would not be a need for all these restrictive bills!
Posted by den on November 13, 2007 12:31 PMIn three recent visits to Colorado casinos, I have observed smokers refusing to not smoke in lines when employees politely asked then not to smoke because of allergies, smokers in restrooms, cigarette dangling from mouth(ugly), smokers in elevators that clearly say "no smoking". Smokers on escalators, where the rest of us 79% have no way to escape their smoke, and at least 10 other rudeness issues by smokers. Looks like you deserve everything coming, a little common sense and politeness and their would not be a need for all these restrictive bills!
Posted by den on November 13, 2007 12:31 PMGood to see that the smoking apologists are at it again. Just join hand, and in one voice now: "We shall overcome"...
Always so inspirational to see the oppressed try to rally...snicker.
Posted by on November 13, 2007 12:31 PMThe unknown speaks again, pointing out that 21 percent of Americans smoke, while screeching negative labels such as "addict" at fellow citizens who lawfully consume legal tobacco products..
The voice from the void fails to recognize the importance of the fact that just two weeks ago voters in Oregon snuffed out a cigarette tax increase by a record super-majority margin for such ballot measures. The vapid void also fails to recognize that a recent poll shows 74 percent of the voting public reject U.S. Food and Drug Administration regulation of tobacco. In addition, a statewide smoking ban in Madison, Wisconsin is dead after the senate majority leader who pushed the bill was summarily removed and replaced and a Fort Wayne, Indiana council member was thrown out of office despite the fact he had the largest campaign war chest and paid for a record media blitz. And surveys show the public also rejects by a super majority the anti-tobacco plus anti-obesity agendas for higher insurance premiums on "Target" smokers or overweight folks. to which we can add that more than 90 percent of respondents top a recent Harris/Wall Street Journal survey flatly reject the idea that persons who smoke or are overweight should be denied employment.
The facts are that the vast majority of the voting public reject outright every key element of the intolerance-mongering anti-tobacco agenda.
Keep at it, unknown anti-tobacco void -- you're doing a great job of displaying for the voting public how studiously tobacco control advocates and politicians who support them ignore important and relevant facts, while continuing to scream Robert Wood Johnson Foundation Social Marketing sound bites about "addicts" at their "Target Group" of choice.
We the people understand there are important public policy issues and that your behavior merely proves the desperate need for adult supervision of public health activists and irresponsible politicians who still listen to them.
Posted by norm kjono on November 13, 2007 12:36 PMThere are more smokers than illegals and more guns than children.
Posted by Paul Atreides on November 13, 2007 01:11 PMPaul Atreides -- why be concerned about using guns or swords when we have the ballot box and pens?
If the above comments from the void and ChokingOnYour Stench are representative of the legislative thinking that determines health and fiscal policy for the State of Colorado, solving the anti-tobacco problem should be a slam-dunk in the 2008 elections.
A more glaring example of cavalierly ignoring now $30.5 million in adverse economic impact on bar and tavern owners, while persisting with dead-loser, special-interest smoking ban policy regardless of the facts could not be presented.
At this point, the known and measured economic consequences on bars says that the legislature further expanding smoking bans in its 2008 session is a deliberate choice to impose more economic losses on small business owners and therefore all taxpayers.
That presents a clearly-defined issue for voters in the November 2008 elections. Both extensive survey data and voter rejection of anti-tobacco over the past year boldly say that voter's choices will not favor those who substitute special-interest agenda private policy for workplace health and safety regulatory Permissible Exposure Limit (PEL) standards that have the force of federal statute.
Posted by norm kjono on November 13, 2007 01:40 PMThe majority's, unsigned @ 12:15, opinions have been wrong so many times; Slavery, that speaks for it's self, prohibition, remember that one which spawned the rise of and the financial fortune of organized crime?, denying the right for women to vote, another idiot thing. Well the list goes on forever. And since when does the majority have a right to violate the laws against tyranny over a minority. But, of course not, zealots can't handle truth as well as they do lies. It's in the constitution friend, if you want to ignore that, all I have to say is good luck and god protect me from fools like you.
And what makes you think you're in the majority when 75% of the people oppose the FDA taking over the regulation of tobacco, three states have kick out the smoking ban, and the public is begining to understand that the government is to damned involved in telling people what they can and can't do.
Please, go ahead with your ranting and raving about all you can think of. Your only proving our case for us, by the way. Dig the hole you're in deeper, go ahead full steam, we beg you.
Posted by Allen Campbell on November 13, 2007 02:31 PMNorm-it's been shown over and over that the antis' position is garbage.Yet their propaganda goes on and on.One example suffices: We have all seen the antis' "public service" spots placed on non-premium TV by an organization called "Infect truth". The content is dripping with hate and the spots end with the word "Whudafxup?". Read it aloud. THAT kind of language is on family TV??
My thought is that the antis deserve whatever nasty,confrontational actions we can think up,and if they're offended by the idea of angry smokers and guns near their kids,that's too bad.Considering the number of angry smokers and the number of guns extant,a little politeness might be the appropriate response.