March 26, 2008 2:56 PM
Will Clinton-Obama jabs hurt the Dems in November?
More than 20 percent of Democrats in a national survey believe Hillary Clinton should drop out of the presidential race - the same number who believe Barack Obama should drop out.
Twenty-two percent (22%) of Democratic voters nationwide say that Hillary Clinton should drop out of the race for the Democratic Presidential nomination. However, the latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that an identical number—22%--say that Barack Obama should drop out.A solid majority of Democrats, 62%, aren’t ready for either candidate to leave the race. Nationally, Clinton and Obama are running essentially even among Likely Democratic Primary Voters in the Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll.
Forty-seven percent (47%) of Obama supporters think Clinton should drop out. Thirty-eight percent (38%) of Clinton supporters say Obama should drop out. Those who remain undecided are a bit more likely to suggest that Obama should leave. But, it’s worth noting that less than half of Obama supporters say Clinton should withdraw, less than half of Clinton supporters say Obama should withdraw, and less than half of undecided voters say either should withdraw at this time.
Fifty-four percent (54%) of all voters say that Obama is likely to win the nomination. Twenty-four percent (24%) say Clinton is the likely nominee while 22% are not sure. Among Democrats 52% expect Obama to win while 28% say Clinton.
Obama and Clinton have been sparring about race, tax returns, Bosnia landings and everything but their NCAA brackets and some Democrats fear Clinton will launch a Tonya Harding Strategy that will cripple Obama's chances against John McCain.
For all that, which side would you rather be on? The Democrats have an often acrimonious campaign that has energized the party. The Republicans have a candidate who bested a field that turned out to be surprisingly weak: Mitt Romney couldn't sell his resume to voters, Rudy Giuliani collapsed in a heap, Fred Thompson's heart never seemed in the race and the last challenger standing, Mike Huckabee, was rarely more than an amusing diversion. Furthermore, many of the leading conservative figures in the party haven't exactly warmed to McCain.
If you're a Democrat, are you worried the Clinton vs. Obama fireworks will inflict lasting damage? If you're a Republican do you think the party and its social conservative factions can unite around McCain?
March 26, 2008
3:34 PM
Shaggy: aka Obamas typical white person, Don't strawman me bro! writes:
Nah, It won't hurt either one.
Keep it up.
I just wished they would quit shooting each other with pea shooters and open the box of hand grenades and start slinging those at each other.
hehehe
Hollywood couldn't make a soap opera this entertaining.
March 26, 2008
3:49 PM
gr8fuldude writes:
My guess is that both Obama and Clinton will refuse to back down and they will take this fight to the convention. If that happens, the party will be pretty much split, and McCain will walk away with it in November, looking far more classy for staying relatively clean while his opponents have been mud wrestling for the past year.
That said, I don't think either party has any grounds for celebration. McCain is FAR from what the roots of the republican party are, and will pretty much continue the status quo. Sad really.
March 26, 2008
4:01 PM
Shaggy: aka Obamas typical white person writes:
"McCain is FAR from what the roots of the republican party are"--Dude
You got that right...he has pondered several times about switching to a Dem.
I will not like casting my vote for him but I think he is the lesser of the three evils running.
I will have an easier time voting for him if he chooses Romney, Huck or Paul.
March 26, 2008
4:08 PM
JW writes:
Thats what the media says...so you must be right Gr8.
Sheezh. Dont you people ever think for yourselves?
What is going to happen in the campaign for the GE? You think its just going to stay stagnant? Nothing will change?
I dont care WHAT these two do to eachother...EITHER one has a one two punch to flatten McCain once the GE campaign starts. They can blast eachother from here to the moon and back...once its one of them vs McCain,
ITS THE ECONOMY, STUPID.
And as most people in this country feel the spending for the war is hurting our economy....
Its the Economy AND THE WAR!!! STUPID.
Since McSame is McSame as GW...I really dont think what Hillary and Obama say about each other today is going to matter in November. We will be WELL off that subject.
Now, I could be wrong. Things could change that. But to think that whatever we know today about these two hitting eachother is going to predict the GE regardless of what happens in THAT campaign is ridiculous.
March 26, 2008
4:28 PM
Shaggy: aka Obamas typical white person, Don't strawman me bro! writes:
I highly doubt that JW.
But even you are entitled to your opinion.
We are just stupid people who's opinions don't count in your narcissistic world and we don't know anything.
The Democratic may become so split it might take 20 years to group back together.
Then again thats my opinion and I'm stupid so don't put any stock into what I say.
I have never ran across someone so arrogant and obnoxious.
March 26, 2008
4:39 PM
KW writes:
While the polls thus far don't support JW's idea about dems rallying once the outcome of their nom is known, it's still quite possible.
On the other hand, the current divide could widen as more moderates drift to McCain. He is the one without mud on his hands or egg on his face... thus far.
But with 8 months to go there's way too many unknown factors still to play out in this equation.
At least this isn't as boring as the prelims were when they started things back in 2006. When they started that early I figured I would've puked by now.
March 26, 2008
4:52 PM
Shaggy: aka Obamas typical white person writes:
It's funny that Howard Dean and other top Democratic leaders are afraid of having this bashing of one another splitting the Democratic party beyond repair for this years election and how JW thinks he knows more about it than they do.
I guess they are "stupid" too.
March 26, 2008
6:04 PM
Tree writes:
8dude-
I don't see McSame walking away with anything but a walker with tennis balls. Dean will have to step up this Summer and have a pow wow using all the media and telling the voters "don't fuck it up". Vote for the last standing Dem period. Giving office to any R. is suicidal to our country as we know it in every category.
March 26, 2008
6:34 PM
Anonymous writes:
This speaks for itself.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/105691/McCain-vs-Obama-28-Clinton-Backers-McCain.aspx
March 26, 2008
7:24 PM
Anonymous writes:
If you're a Democrat, are you worried the Clinton vs. Obama fireworks will inflict lasting damage?
Heck no. Let it all hang out mano a mano. The nastier the better.
Why? Because its going to be even worse going against republicans. What doesn't kill you will make you stronger.
If you're a Republican do you think the party and its social conservative factions can unite around McCain?
Yes for the most part
March 26, 2008
7:26 PM
benn writes:
GE polls are worthless at this point. Once Obama seals up the nomination, most HRC supporters will have some time to realize the policies of McCain will ruin this country, and they will pull the lever for Obama.
March 27, 2008
7:57 AM
jay writes:
The wright molehill has pretty much blown over and we're seeing polls start to normalize again.
NBC News/Wall Street Journal Poll conducted by the polling organizations of Peter Hart (D) and Bill McInturff (R). March 24-25, 2008.
"If the next election for president were held today, and John McCain were the Republican candidate and [see below] were the Democratic candidate, for whom would you vote?"
McCain (R) 42$
Obama (D) 44%
Depends 3%
Neither/Unsure 11%
That said, I don't necessarily agree with the notion that it's good to still have hillary in an unwinnable race simply because she provides a vetting process for the obama campaign. It's one thing if the republicans want to continue to refuse to run on their track record and to refuse to at the very least acknowledge and address the issue that mccain represents a third bush term...they'll have to predictably resort to the traditional far right smear campaign in order to stay competitive. what I see as hurting the dems chances of stopping the madness of a third bush term is hillary actively adding credence to the right wing attacks by introducing their kind into the poitical arena herself. all of a sudden the kooks on 850 koa will be parroting something ridiculous and when brought to task for it they'll simply use the "well hillary said it first" excuse.
Furthermore, you have to consider that while the inevitable dem candidate (obama) has to be on the trail, needlessly duking it out with the clintons, mccain gets to presidentially parade around during photo ops in the middle east. (not that the far right would notice that he had to be twice corrected by joe lieberman after showing the world how truly ignorant he is about international affairs) At this point mccain gets to start crafting and staying on message. The sales extravaganza has started. You can already see the yokel's eyes start to light up as if the circus carnies had arrived in town early this year. obama meanwhile has to spend his time sparring on national tv with a member of his own party who has zero chance of winning the nomination.
you really have to wonder why she's still running at this point.
March 27, 2008
8:10 AM
JW writes:
"We are just stupid people who's opinions don't count in your narcissistic world and we don't know anything."
Shaggy, lets be clear about this. YOU are stupid. I dont call jay or Gr8 or KW stupid. I may question their thinking, but they are not stupid. You still havent figured out what a strawman is. I think stupid is the right word to use, that being the case.
"While the polls thus far don't support JW's idea about dems rallying once the outcome of their nom is known, it's still quite possible."
KW, that is true, but they dont support this idea that the fight between Obama and Hillary is hurting them either. Yes, one poll says 20% of their supporters jump ship and vote for McCain if they dont get the nom. So what? The polls regarding head to head are representative samples, and therefore take that into account. Obama, Hillary, even with the 20% jump ship are still dead heats with McSame in head to head matchup.
And of course we havent had the GE campaign yet.
As for why I asked if people were thinking...
I read basically the same thing Gr8 said yesterday, and Jay is saying today, on Hannity and Colmes. Hanity was saying the same thing to some Rep., and of course the Rep was in total agreement. That right there makes me question it.
And then you have the abject failure of our media over the last 15 years or so.
Plus as shown above, the data doesnt support that thinking.
Then finally, polls. Six months ago, Hillary won the dem nom in a landslide, and proceeded to do the same in the GE. The Rep candidate was supposed to be Rudy, or Mc Romney, or even possibly Thompson, but McCain was DONE.
With all that, WHY would you just read what the media has to say and think "yea, sounds right. Must be true"?
March 27, 2008
8:28 AM
gr8fuldude writes:
Tree - I hope to heck you are right, but I still cannot have a lot of faith in the populace that re-elected Dumbya. I hope you're right, though I cringe when Hillary makes comments like "The pledged delegates are still up for grabs" (see today's CNN ticker). If she somehow walks with the nom despite the popular vote, I think it will leave a taste in the voters' mouths that we saw in 2000.
March 27, 2008
8:33 AM
JW writes:
"John McCain recently announced his own plan, and it amounts to little more than watching this crisis happen. While this is consistent with Sen. McCain's determination to run for George Bush's third term, it won't help families who are suffering, and it won't help lift our economy out of recession," Obama said."
IE: Its the economy, stupid, and a third term of GW aint gona help.
McSame is screwed unless the economy bounces back.
March 27, 2008
8:45 AM
Pedro G. writes:
Democratic candidate Mrs. Clinton has declared that pledged delegates can ultimately support any of the candidates regardless results during the primaries and caucuses. Long Live Democracy! Any historian will tell you how, in the 1800s in Europe, governments were chosen by a small number of powerful rich males while little people and women were said to be too stupid to understand politics.
Want to read another interesting piece about Clinton and the little people?
Go to: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joseph-a-palermo/hillary-clinton-and-walm_b_93638.html
March 27, 2008
8:55 AM
Shaggy: aka Obamas typical white person, Don't strawman me bro! writes:
JW,
Lets make no doubt about this...You are an arrogant little prick...Make that a arrogant stupid little prick.
I could care less who you call stupid or not...You act like I should.
That said,
29% of Obama supporters say they will not vote Hillary.
19% of Hillary supporters say they will not vote Obama.
Speaks volumes about what is happening to the Democratic party and goes against what you say-- "EITHER one has a one two punch to flatten McCain once the GE campaign starts."--JW.
Obama is losing ground daily.
McCain is gaining ground daily.
Hillary just lies her ass off daily.
If Hillary does not get the nomination, she will make damn sure Obama doesn't get elected. That is how the Clintons play politics. She hasn't even began her quest to bury Obamaboy.
hehehehe
It is just so painful for me to watch your party IMPLODE.
Keep tapping your toes!!! It works in fantasy land.
March 27, 2008
9:07 AM
JW writes:
"Lets make no doubt about this...You are an arrogant little prick...Make that a arrogant stupid little prick.
I could care less who you call stupid or not...You act like I should."
Seems like you care to me. That said, Ill stop calling you stupid. We can just agree to disagree.
"That said,
29% of Obama supporters say they will not vote Hillary.
19% of Hillary supporters say they will not vote Obama.
Speaks volumes about what is happening to the Democratic party and goes against what you say-- "EITHER one has a one two punch to flatten McCain once the GE campaign starts."--JW."
Whatever you say. As I said, the polls about head to head campaigning say different.
"Obama is losing ground daily.
McCain is gaining ground daily.
Hillary just lies her ass off daily."
Data doesnt support this, but youve a right to think whatever.
"If Hillary does not get the nomination, she will make damn sure Obama doesn't get elected. That is how the Clintons play politics. She hasn't even began her quest to bury Obamaboy.
hehehehe"
Seems to me, if this was the case she would be talking up the Wright stuff. So far, the only time she's mentioned it was to complement Obama's speech on the subject, and to answer a direct question about it.
But youre entitled to think what you want.
"It is just so painful for me to watch your party IMPLODE.
Keep tapping your toes!!! It works in fantasy land."
GE hasnt even started yet. Youre counting your Chickens before the eggs have even been laid, let alone hatched.
March 27, 2008
10:01 AM
just sayin' writes:
I'm looking forward to the GE debates. McBush will be exposed. How about his latest gaff of claiming that Iran was training Al Quaeda? That's a little like claiming that white supremacists would be training the Black Panthers. (they hate each other)He is becoming a little more senile everyday.
March 27, 2008
10:17 AM
Hogar De Vuelta (العودة) "Ask not what your country can do for you..." writes:
We interrupt this blog to bring you this public service announcement:
"JW IS THE SMARTEST GUY IN THE ROOM!!"
An now we return you to your regularly scheduled blogging.
March 27, 2008
10:22 AM
Shaggy writes:
Everyone,
This is off subject but I think you all will find this worth watching...
http://www.newportharbor.us/shift.htm
March 27, 2008
12:12 PM
jacksmith writes:
DON'T BE DUPED !!!
Large numbers of Republicans have been voting for Barack Obama in the DEMOCRATIC primaries, and caucuses from early on. Because they feel he would be a weaker opponent against John McCain. And because they feel that a Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama ticket would be unbeatable. And also because with a Clinton and Obama ticket you are almost 100% certain to get quality, affordable universal health care very soon.
But first, all of you have to make certain that Hillary Clinton takes the democratic nomination and then the Whitehouse. NOW! is the time. THIS! is the moment you have all been working, and waiting for. You can do this America. “Carpe diem” (harvest the day).
I think Hillary Clinton see’s a beautiful world of plenty for all. She is a woman, and a mother. And it’s time America. Do this for your-selves, and your children’s future. You will have to work together on this and be aggressive, relentless, and creative. Americans face an even worse catastrophe ahead than the one you are living through now.
You see, the medical and insurance industry mostly support the republicans with the money they ripped off from you. And they don’t want you to have quality, affordable universal health care. They want to be able to continue to rip you off, and kill you and your children by continuing to deny you life saving medical care that you have already paid for. So they can continue to make more immoral profits for them-selves.
Hillary Clinton has actually won by much larger margins than the vote totals showed. And lost by much smaller vote margins than the vote totals showed. Her delegate count is actually much higher than it shows. And higher than Obama’s. She also leads in the electoral college numbers that you must win to become President in the November national election. HILLARY CLINTON IS ALREADY THE TRUE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE!
As much as 30% of Obama's primary, and caucus votes are Republicans trying to choose the weakest democratic candidate for McCain to run against. These Republicans have been gaming the caucuses where it is easier to vote cheat. This is why Obama has not been able to win the BIG! states primaries. Even with Republican vote cheating help.
Hillary Clinton has been out manned, out gunned, and out spent 2 and 3 to 1. Yet Obama has only been able to manage a very tenuous, and questionable tie with Hillary Clinton.
If Obama is the democratic nominee for the national election in November he will be slaughtered. Because the Republican vote cheating help will suddenly evaporate. All of this vote fraud and republican manipulation has made Obama falsely look like a much stronger candidate than he really is. YOUNG PEOPLE. DON’T BE DUPED! Think about it. You have the most to lose.
The democratic party needs to fix this outrage. I suggest a Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama ticket. Everyone needs to throw all your support to Hillary Clinton NOW! So you can end this outrage against YOU the voter, and against democracy.
I think Barack Obama has a once in a life time chance to make the ultimate historic gesture for unity, and change in America by accepting Hillary Clinton’s offer as running mate. Such an act now would for ever seal Barack Obama’s place at the top of the list of Americas all time great leaders, and unifiers for all of history.
The democratic party, and the super-delegates have a decision to make. Are the democrats, and the democratic party going to choose the DEMOCRATIC party nominee to fight for the American people. Or are the republicans going to choose the DEMOCRATIC party nominee through vote fraud, and gaming the DEMOCRATIC party primaries, and caucuses.
Fortunately the Clinton’s have been able to hold on against this fraudulent outrage with those repeated dramatic comebacks of Hillary Clinton’s. Only the Clinton’s are that resourceful, and strong. Hillary Clinton is your NOMINEE. They are the best I have ever seen.
“This is not a game” (Hillary Clinton)
Sincerely
jacksmith...
March 27, 2008
12:25 PM
Anonymous writes:
It appears that Hillary is left with the Tanya Harding option as the only viable way she can get the nomination. She has to knee-cap Obama and then convince enough super delegates to vote for her based on current polls, effectively over-turning the previous primaries. Under such a scenario, it is conceivable that many Obama supporters would vote for McCain, or not vote at all.
If Obama wins the nomination, as expected, the number of Clinton voters who say they will vote McCain may decrease. The current poll may be picking up angst by Clinton supports over the likelihood of Hillary's defeat. It will be hard to say Obama stole the nomination, only that if he was white he wouldn't get the nomination, even though his mother is white.
In either case, world events and our domestic economy may force Democrats to question whether McCain will try to tackle the problems, or if he is capable of dealing with a crisis. Events may also force Republicans and Independents to ask the same questions.
March 27, 2008
12:31 PM
Shaggy writes:
I agree JackSmith,
Hillary should be the nominee.
I am so glad she wasn't sniped.
She is such a brave woman.
March 27, 2008
12:43 PM
Anonymous writes:
jack-
did you pop out of a wind up box? don't forget to count the votes before you seat a person. your analogy goes hand in hand with selling luxary cars.
March 27, 2008
2:17 PM
Anonymous writes:
jack - Where do you get your supply of meth?
March 27, 2008
2:24 PM
Anonymous writes:
Looks like our jack has been a busy boy:
http://www.usnews.com/blogs/barone/2008/3/13/open-field-politics.html
http://www.michigandaily.com/home/index.cfm?event=displayArticleComments&ustory_id=6e99baa4-127f-4817-97f6-febd4bbc0719&refsource=collegeheadlines
March 27, 2008
2:56 PM
Shaggy writes:
02:24 PM,
LoL..Thats tooo funny..
Looks like Hillary is paying someone to scour the blogs and re-post that over and over and over...
Good job...
Can you find us a video showing Obama at one of Wrights hate speeches?
You would become an instant millionaire.
I Bet Bill C would pay you cash..
LoL..This jack guy sounds like the same one who got upset over Brittany Spears.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofyLrdF_Ag4
March 27, 2008
3:09 PM
SASQUATCH writes:
ITS KILLING THEM RIGHT NOW...setting the stage for massive Dem defections to McCain, according to all the polls. The Dems CHAOS will go right through August and result in a civil war that catapults MCCain into the WH. The Dems will be finished as a fractionalized, Balkanized and disununited failed political party! DISUNUNITED!
HRC exposes herself daily as a serial liar and BO still won't jetison his 20 year "spiritual advisor" and hate-whitey Hitler-impostor who recently got some headline publicity refering to Italians as "GARLIC NOSES."
March 27, 2008
4:21 PM
jay writes:
Is it just me or does anyone else imagine bigfoot shrieking his rants at the top of his lungs on the corner of 16th and California wearing combat boots, boxer shorts and a sandwich board upon which he's stenciled THE END IS NEAR?
March 27, 2008
4:25 PM
Civility writes:
I don't that it will hurt either one, but I would like to see Hillary stop criticizing Obama's experience and Obama stop crticizing Hillary's vote to give permission to GWB to invade IRAQ. I would rather hear what each one's plans are on the issues. That way the Dems can make their decision and move on because the future of the world is at stake. I would like to see both on the ticket one way or another. Based on the last 7 years, we need to make sure that no Republican is elected!
March 27, 2008
4:29 PM
Civility writes:
I don't that it will hurt either one, but I would like to see Hillary stop criticizing Obama's experience and Obama stop crticizing Hillary's vote to give permission to GWB to invade IRAQ. I would rather hear what each one's plans are on the issues. That way the Dems can make their decision and move on because the future of the world is at stake. I would like to see both on the ticket one way or another. Based on the last 7 years, we need to make sure that no Republican is elected!
March 27, 2008
4:31 PM
60s4ever writes:
I don't that it will hurt either one, but I would like to see Hillary stop criticizing Obama's experience and Obama stop crticizing Hillary's vote to give permission to GWB to invade IRAQ. I would rather hear what each one's plans are on the issues. That way the Dems can make their decision and move on because the future of the world is at stake. I would like to see both on the ticket one way or another. Based on the last 7 years, we need to make sure that no Republican is elected!
March 27, 2008
4:34 PM
60s4ever writes:
I don't that it will hurt either one, but I would like to see Hillary stop criticizing Obama's experience and Obama stop crticizing Hillary's vote to give permission to GWB to invade IRAQ. I would rather hear what each one's plans are on the issues. That way the Dems can make their decision and move on because the future of the world is at stake. I would like to see both on the ticket one way or another. Based on the last 7 years, we need to make sure that no Republican is elected!
March 27, 2008
5:11 PM
Independent and staying that way writes:
Oh, I don't know whether the racist tactics of personal destrction politics is hurting the Dems. The recent Gallup polls demonstrating the Dem voter exodus for the presidential election if their candidate doesn't get the nom is very telling.
Dems are self-destructing (again).
March 27, 2008
5:31 PM
Not big and harry writes:
jay-
Big Foot is a plant from Rush. Propaganda trying to get people to vote for Mcsame at any cost. Same as news on election day at 3pm " no need to go to the polls and vote people, the republicans already have it locked up".
Hey Big Foot, how much you getting paid?
March 27, 2008
7:49 PM
It's chilly in here writes:
Cute jingle - "McSame".
What is not so cute are the 1/4 to 1/3 of Hillary supporters who will vote for McCain if Obama gets the nomination. (Gallup Poll - one of those scientific polls that jay quotes as gospel).
Solution? Board the Denial Train and keep churning the talking points while the party implodes yet again.
Liberals are really stupid.
March 28, 2008
6:15 AM
momma y writes:
Gee, I thought that all the Republicans crossing over to mess up the Democratic Party were voting for Hilary.
End game is unknown at this point. Conventional wisdom had McCain losing because the conservatives would sit out the election.
Conventional wisdom says the losing half of the Democratic party will cross over.
I say that most will vote for their candidate because the Democrats have attached themselves to the Clintons for many years. The black vote, Obama's secret weapon in some states, will vote for the Democratic nominee no matter what dirty tactics are used. If Hilary manages to steal the nomination the voters will be the same and the outcome will depend on which side the independents choose. Just like every other election.
A great deal will depend on who the vice presidential candidates are. Remember that it is almost impossible for a losing vice presidential candidate to get the nomination while it is almost easy for a candidate who loses the nomination to a losing Presidential candidate one year to be able to declare that he/she would have won and get the nomination.