• Front page
• Receive letters on your RSS reader

Cecelia Barrocas of Fountain writes:

Re: “A Mandate Too Far,” Rocky Mountain News Editorial appearing in Perspective Section E, The Denver Post, Sunday, April 8, 2007.
Clearly the writer of this editorial is not a minimum wage worker trying to keep his/her family fed, clothed, housed and healthy while working more than one job, sans health insurance or paid sick leave. I wonder what current compensation packages are like for editorial page editors around the country. I’ll bet such packages include benefits that are not cut if compensation (salary) goes up in one category. I’ll bet the writer gets free lunches all the time courtesy of a fat expense account and also from the employers and businesses to which this editorial caters.

This letter has not been edited.

READER COMMENTS

The author of the Perspective article states that "It may seem unreasonable that some companies continue to deny this benefit. We certainly think every company that can should accommodate sick employees." That indicates to me that the author is sympathetic to the need for such benefit.

Yet, the author then goes to say that "Yet according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, roughly 30 percent of full-time workers and 77 percent of part-time employees do not receive paid sick leave from their jobs." As if, while there is a need for such a benefit, the fact that a great many employees don't have it is somehow an argument against providing that need, when that fact should logically be an argument in favor of such legislation. Or perhaps the author is saying that since a lot of employers do provide the benefit we should give those that don't a free ride.

The author notes that 36% of certain companies do provide for time off, which can be for sickness or simply vacation. He goes on to say "This is acknowledged indirectly in the legislation; companies that offer at least seven days of paid time off would not have to provide a separate sick-leave benefit." Sounds to me like the legislation quite directly acknowledges the "time off" factor and makes room for it.

The author says that offering employees both an adequate salary and reasonable sick benefits amounts to a free lunch. So the author thinks that an employer can now defend itself from granting increased compensation to his employees by the simple device of invoking the old saw “no free lunch”. There may be valid arguments against the legislation, but "free lunch" is clearly not one of them. I wonder if it might be suitable to say that the author may well be an employer who wants a free lunch, paid for by his employees?

How very interesting. Every time I hear a person complaining about the trials and tribulations of raising a family on a minimum wage salary, I cringe. First question, why would you put yourself in that situation? I am sure you are a very intelligent person, why would you not pursue an education, build a career and then have a family. It isn’t easy funding a college education, but I did it. I had to incur $35,000.00 in debt, but I didn't compound it by attempting to raise a family at the same time. Then I spent five years in the work force before I thought I was ready to support a family. Besides, it gave me time to pay off most of my school loans. My family never gave me a cent while I was doing this and in retrospect I'm glad they didn't. When I see most people complaining about their situation, there is almost always a common cause......you created your situation. You received a free public education and you had the chance to further that education by going to college and while it isn't easy, it is worth the effort. Minimum wage jobs are mostly entry-level positions. They are not career positions or intended to sustain a family. Remember Ms. Barrocas, you made certain decisions in your life and society has no obligation to atone for those decisions. Unless you are physically or mentally handicapped, you have no excuses for not taking control of your life and doing more than just complain. Get a college education, build a career and make yourself a valuable commodity. When you have valuable skills, employers will offer many benefits and compete for your skills.

Alex is probably a nice guy although I wish he had learned to read when he was getting that education. Nowhere does the writer indicate that she is complaining about herself. Nowhere does she indicate what her living circumstances are. Nowhere does she indicate that it is she who has a minimum wage job.

There are people, would you believe, Alex is clearly not one of them, who are concerned about those who are less advantaged than they are. I am one of those persons. It's clear that is a concept Alex will learn only when he acquires some maturity.

As far as I am concerned, the autobiographical sketches and a quarter would buy you whatever you can buy these days for twenty-five cents.

Most people, I expect Alex included, want to have more money. Well, for God's sakes, if Bill Gates can do it, why the hell can't you? You just don't get up early enough; you just don't walk far enough to get to school; you would have done better if you had had to read your school books by candlelight like Lincoln. And so on.

You're a struggling writer? Why the hell can't you do what Earnest Heminway did? A struggling politician; look, if Bush can do it...... and so on.

I know it improves Alex ego to bitch about someone he doesn't know from an ant, but, for God's sakes, Alex, get some smarts, man. That's not what life should be about.

It's Alex' tacit position that all people are created so equal that they have exactly the same amount of brain power, exactly the same amount of talent, exactly the same family background and upbringing, exactly the same advantages and opportunitesm that in reality we are all clones of each other. What a bunch of garbage he has filling his head!

Bitching and moaning about someone you don't even know makes it clear that you failed the main course in life, common sense.

Ok truth please identify some of these workers supporting a family on minimum wage and raising a family. When my kids were in high school they never had a job that paid minimum wage and only one does now in college and she waits tables and makes wonderful tips.
Not every one has to go to college to become smart and have a very high paying job, but they do need to have the will to work hard and a goal to better themselves.
now truth without attaching anyone for their opinion, respond to the statements made in a constructive manor. So you believe that all people are not born equal? If my parents were alive today they would be shocked to see what I have done with my life. I came from very poor dirt farmers truth and through hard work and determination I have earned what I have today. I have never sat back and said that anyone owes me a thing.
I run a succesful business, and that is my opinion, employ over 50 people, I pay half of their medical coverage, I provide vacations and days off for the holidays, and each employee can pay for short term disability insurance if they would like to. I dont see the need to pay for sick days as they can use their vacation days for that. I never have paid anyone, including some very unskilled workers, minimum wage but that is my choice. I dont care if you are green yellow or purple with dots, if you want to work and are willing to work for what I am willing to pay, I will give you a try.
So truth what are you doing for your fellow man other than spreading your 'garabage' about people 'you' dont even know?

One thing I am not going to do, Earl, is to join you and Alex in composing self-congratulatory paeans to myself. I'm not one who spends a lot of time patting myself on the back. People like you may want to take that as meaning I don't do one hell of a lot for my fellowman, that I haven't devoted my retirement years to helping children and the less fortunate. You always have the of being a small minded person.

You must have taken reading lessons from Alex. I was not writing an essay about minimum wage earners and the quality of people they are. I have this crazy habit of not making up stories about people I don't know from an ant. I was simply responding to the letter from Cecelia and the asinine response from Alex. Cecelia's letter was about the need for employers to have a care for sick employees who aren't paid enough to afford the bills which sickness can involve. Alex' response was about his fictitious speculation about Cecelia.

By the way, as to that job you offered me, you can guess where you can shove it. Again, you don't know me from an ant. You have no idea whatsoever what my life has been about, how well off I am, what I have or haven't done for my fellow man. But ilk like you don't need to know a person to take liberties in judging them. Perhaps it's time for you to grow up. But feel free to make yourself feel better about yourself. Congratulate yourself some more on what a great person you think you are.

Truth, your words ring hollow. You hide behind a pen name and attack people anonymously. I thought Earl was very polite in the manner in which he expressed his opinion...but you chose to tell him "you can guess where you can shove it."
Very Mature Indeed. You feign a caring heart for other people and then take snide little swipes at those who would politely disagree. You say you are retired, which tells me you are probably an older person and your venomous words say you are a very bitter old person. I offer my sympathies to those who must tolerate your presence in their lives.

I am sure that the French thought they were just helping the working class when they passed all of their feel good, nanny state laws protecting employees.

Now that their economy has buckeled under the weight of the entitlements and employers are reluctant to hire anyone, Americans would do well to pay attention to the lessons available from France and many other countries in Western Europe.

The more the government stays out of the relationship between employers and employees, the better the economy will be and the less workers there will be struggling to get by.

Alex, I passed your offer on to those who tolerate my presence in their lives. They rejected the offer and said that you should know where you can shove it.

So, do you also think that we should repeal these nanny laws?

Child labor laws.
Industrial safety laws.
Wage and hour laws.
Social security laws.
Consumer fraud laws.
Deceptive advertising laws.
Security fraud laws.
Usury laws.
Environemental laws.

Do we really need laws to protect us from the likes of Enron? And what about the speed laws, Mike. Surely the government has no business telling us how to drive.

What is true, Mike, is that you have no real understanding of the role of government. Take a look around the world, Mike. Any place at all that adheres to your policy about nanny laws? I don't think there is a single one, Mike. Of course, it could be that the very small group of people like you are right and every country in the world is wrong.

Alex, in your education, you apparently missed the course life offers on politeness and courtesy. Your post, and that of your buddy, were both filled with arrogance, self-righteousness, pride, condescension, and egocentricity. There wasn't a scintilla of compassion or caring shown for people who did not get the breaks in life which many of us have had. Your apparent understanding of love is only the love one has for oneself. The letters were full of "see how good I am", and "if only you people at the bottom were as good as I am". Both of you have the gall to attack people you don't know from an ant. And you can take up with your buddy, Earl, the problem you have with people who don't show their full names. As you surely know, the name Alex Guruie doesn't mean squat to me or the other readers.

Does the word transference mean anything to you Truth?

Does saying whatever it is you mean ring a bell with you, Were You etc.? I assume the implication of your really sweet little username is that I was abused as a small child, but you're one of those gutless wonders who'd rather imply what you mean rather than have the candor and integrity to say it. You don't know me from an ant. Yet, you make that insidious insinuation. Perhaps you are taking lessons from Earl and Alex.

Truth, I believe Alex is correct. You are a very bitter old person. I notice you spend a great deal of time insulting other people in the various forums. You obviously have nothing better to do than spew hatred at others. Your conduct in this forum is a testament to your pathetic existence. You are probably holed up in some dingy apartment littered with the same garbage you place on this site. Alex was incorrect about one thing though, he does not need to offer sympathy as I am sure anyone that was in your life left a long time ago.

Darn, People, you sure know how to pick them. How did you find out? Gotta go now, I have a dingy apartment to clean. I have plenty of time for such things since I am alone in the world because of my bitter, sick personality. Even my dog hates me. There, he deserved that kick for scowling at me. Some time you should come over an share a bowl of cockroaches with me. I'm all out of spew just now or I'd spew some hatred your way. But I will give you a rain check.

Truth, I did not say that governments should stay completely out of our lives.

However, entitlements and welfare are a slippery slope. I guess the challenge is to know where to draw the line.

And please educate me and show me any other country in the world as prosperous as the US, let alone every country.

I believe that prosperity is due to individual freedom and achievement, not government handouts.

Hey I Like truth. Even though we only agreed once I like hearing his opinions from a perspective I most likely will never share. And don't get me started on the governmental nonsense laws. Keep posting truth. I'm re-filling my venom pen now. (Sorry I was gone for so long. Dang heart attacks!)

As a small business owner I dont provide health care, sick leave, or any other benefits. If I was required to they would have to be paid a lot less. I have always figured a kid going through college would rather make $15.00 an hour and have no benefits than make $6.87 and get benefits. Remember.. I already plan on people being sick. As a team we get together and get that sick persons work done. We dont make any more money an hour doing it. Why should I pay someone to be sick? Illness happens. But that is not my fault. If I get ill and go bankrupt I probably wont see anyone comming to my aid. If they get ill why am I required to take care of them? If I give out more benefits things cost more. Health Insurance, lost time, theft, illness, ect are all considered in the cost of a good. I know people claim they will gladly pay more if they knew that it was going to a good cause but I consider that to be a complete sham. People go to the places where people are cutting others out.. Like not carrying insurance, workers comp, and paying low wages. Like I said I would rather pay better and let my employees get what they feel they need than pay them less and provide it for them. Thanks for letting put my input in. Its a Great subject! ( and I like your posts to Truth.. ) Rich. M

Rich M's letter does a very good job of looking at the problem from the small business owner's perspective. Since I don't have a small business, I'm sure I fail to give sufficient consideration to the practical plight they face in keeping up with the large corporations.

We are in an economy in which both spouses often have to work, sometimes at more than one job, to be able to live a decent life. In my opinion, in addition to the neer do wells, there are millions of decent and hard working people, people who work harder than most of us, that struggle each day to get by. I don't know the remedy for that, but it is a remedy that is badly needed. I can't expect an individual small employer to be able to contribute voluntarily to the solution. That is why I think the government needs to be involved in seeking a remedy.

Also, having reread Earl's letter, I owe him an apology. He did not attack anyone , as I wrongly claimed. In fact, he shows his compassion by paying half of his employee's medical coverage. He also provides vacation time, which the employee can also use for sick time. Those are the marks of a caring employer. I should have read his letter more carefully.

In my opinion, people on the bottom rung who have little political clout do need the help of the government to avoid being mistreated. The question is, how much help? I admit that I tend to consider the problem too much from the employee's standpoint and not enough from the employer's standpoint. I tend to get my hackles up when I read letters like that from Alex which sees the need to denigrate people he doesn't even know, and thinks of himself as the exemplar to which all others should strive. I continue to think he has an inability to recognize that for whatever reason some people simply don't have the abilities, talents, inner strength and motivation that others have. I take it that Alex attributes all that to laziness. There are many very talented people who feel humble and grateful for their talents. Others are prideful and want others to see what they did all by themselves. Some talented people want to reach down to help those less fortunate. Others want to look down and criticize the less fortunate.

There are many countries which pay little attention to the plight of the poor and less fortunate. They in general are the dictatorships. They in general are the third world countries. I am glad America is not one of them.

momma y, I hope your recovery from the heart attack is going well, Many of us survivors find ourselves living healthier lifestyles than before. I hope that will be true for you.

I heard that the national average for employer provided healthcare is that the employer picks up 70% of the cost.

POST A COMMENT

• Taxes and health care
• Gov. Ritter and unions
• Former Gov. Owens on Gov. Ritter’s unions
• Roan plateau is a treasure
• Homelessness and mental illness
• Paper ballots are the answer
• Greenhouse gases
• Voting machine controversy