57 million illegals here in last 7 years?
In every story I see about illegal immigration, in either the print or electronic media, the estimated number of illegal immigrants is 12 million.
Where does this number come from?
According to a recent story in one of Denver’s newspapers, the Border Patrol has caught between 800,000 and 1 million people sneaking across the border every year from 2000 to 2006 inclusive. Using an average of 900,000 caught per year, that means if they catch 50 percent of the people trying to cross the border we have added 6 million illegal immigrants since the beginning of 2000.
I seriously doubt that they catch half the border crashers. If they catch 25 percent, we have added 19 million illegals. I think 25 percent is a little high, don’t you? If you use a more believable 10 percent catch rate, we have added a whopping 57 million illegal immigrants in this century alone.
In light of these numbers, I think some enterprising investigative journalist should look into this 12 million illegal immigrant estimate and get back to us. I doubt it will happen. If the American people knew the actual numbers involved, the immigration debate might take a different course.
Charlie Reynolds, Denver
RECALL SALAZAR
Posted by american citizen on May 19, 2007 02:46 AMIMPEACH BUSH
Posted by American Patriot on May 19, 2007 03:37 AMI prefer to use the figure one-half of one percent. That way we can say that illegals outnumber the citizens. Now, that is really good propaganda.
Signed, An American Hero Who Loves America, God and Cherry Pie and hates everybody else
Posted by Truth on May 19, 2007 05:51 AMLet's just make it a cool 100 million illegal immigrants, and let's get on with life! LOL
Posted by on May 19, 2007 06:15 AMWe have ivory towered groups calling the shots. Globalists who can jet off all over the globe with bags of cash after they tap a resource to the hilt, now it being our own beloved U.S.A. Council of Foreign Relations, the Bilderburgs, Trilateral Council. They are made up of U.S. presidents from both sides of the aisle, shieks, wealthy industrialists like Bill Gates. What they do behind closed door is make new world order and on our tax dime. How about a tax revolt? I am just waiting anxiously for an opportune time. Anyone care to give the tax revolt a push.
Posted by Ben on May 19, 2007 06:58 AMhowabout just a revolt againt the state and federal government officials, start all over again close our borders like the swiss rebuild america and hold only our own, then we could become the superpower we used to be instead of the world police like we are today , with high gas prices and illegals taking all the middle class jobs this country is going to shi+, unless we redo the current government situation it is only going to get worse
Posted by hoimaha on May 19, 2007 08:19 AMTruth is trying to destroy our country in sooo many ways.He thinks anything American is bad .Watch out for his type.
Posted by Ron on May 19, 2007 08:33 AMhey ron , you should here him (truth) in the religious talk forums, he wants pat robertson for president and james dobson for vice president, i think if wants socialism he should go to another country and live in a socialist country or communism and see how bad it really is.
Posted by hoimaha on May 19, 2007 08:49 AMhoimaha: I don't know how many middle class jobs their are taking but I do know that they are taking alot of jobs that us fat lazy americans won't. Our children today are to good for those low paying jobs at McDonalds. Mommy and Daddy takes care of car and gas and insurance so little johnny don't have to work to hard. If someone can answer how we can get americans to fill these low paying jobs the illegal immigrationproblem would take care of its self.
larry me, let me tell you a little about me, i graduated high school at the age of 16, instead of going straigt to college, i packed up what i could into a framepack for hiking added some pots and pans and a tent and bedroll, and started walking, to where i didn't know at the time but it ended up being 47 states and to parts of Mexico and Canada. from the time i was 16 til i was 22 years old.
i came from a poor family of hard working parents who had little or nothing growing up as a kid living out of a van at times and on a farm (small farm . 3 acres), my parents and i have always worked hard and meaningless jobs because they pay crappy but they pay money non the less,
i have worked the cheapest nastiest lowest paying jobs and even begged for work just so i could stay alive sometimes, i am never too proud to work the jobs nobody wants, cause there is always an american out there some where looking for a chance , i have flung burgers, picked up dog and horse poop, swept parking lots, any form of construction, i remember when a construction job would pay starting out in the 90's @ 15.00+ an hour now prices have gone up for consumers and wages have gone down cause illegals will take the cheaper pay.the swift jobs used to pay over 21.00 an hour to start, they hired illegals and lowerd pay to 12.00 to start .
the fact of the matter is that they are illegal, you freakin liberals cant get that through your freakin heads, terrorist have come accross the border and almost struck a military base in new jersey,
those jobs that the illegals are taking like McDonalds and most fast food is because they raised minimum wage to 7.xx an hour just for the illegals, hell when i worked there i made 4.15 an hour and was proud cause i had a job...
i pulled myself off of the streets not through my family but by myself, i got a cheap job and started from the bottom and worked my way up, i have been in telecomm for over 9 years now and make around 45,000.00 a year ,
my point is that there will always be americans willing to do "those "jobs, i am one of them , my family are those people many homeless people are willing to , there are legal ways to get into this country , just liek there are legal ways to get money, i prefer to work instead of robbing banks, safer, legal, no worries
Posted by hoimaha on May 19, 2007 09:45 AMhoimaha:
First I'm not a liberal. Second I could bore you with my rough life too but that don't answer where are these Americans willing to take these jobs. I work in a construction industry were the white american kid is no longer wanting> They all want the nice comfortable air conditoned computer jobs. It it is getting nearly imposible to hire. As far as you complaining about the minimum wage going up it needed to. Have you seen the price of gas lately. HO thats right the republicans stand for the rich to get ricer while the little guy goes hungry. Have you ever thought for a minute that if you payed better wages that these jobs would be more attractive. But thats right if that happened these CEO's wouldn't be able to give them selfs millions of dollars in bonuses. Boy I would hate to deprive them. Besides I never said I was for these Ilegals being here I'm not I was saying someone needs to fill these jobs. But that's right theres millions like you out there that want them. Can you tell me where they are we're hiring.
Impeach Bush....Salazar....McKennedy...Specter....Graham...and any other idiot who supports amnesty and a not defending America...either in Iraq or on our borders. Our nation is under attack...the only ones defending it are Duncan Hunter and Tom Tancredo. To arms........
Posted by Buff Driver on May 19, 2007 10:31 AMImpeach Bush....Salazar....McKennedy...Specter....Graham...and any other idiot who supports amnesty and a not defending America...either in Iraq or on our borders. Our nation is under attack...the only ones defending it are Duncan Hunter and Tom Tancredo. To arms........
Posted by Buff Driver on May 19, 2007 10:31 AMBuff Driver,
A call to arms is right. The government seems to have completely abandoned the Constitution and the People.
Posted by John II on May 19, 2007 10:50 AMAcross the board,the illegals should be charged with Federal felonies as they are violating federal immigration laws and should be charged with the crime. Employers who hire them should also be charged with conspiracy to violate federal immigration laws and violaing employment laws, fined and possibly even loss of their company to reimburse the cost for the enforcement of these laws and compensation. Then any person assisting illegals should be charged with conspiracy and aiding a known criminal and interferance with law enforcement. Finally, any elected official should be chrarged with treason for violating oath of office, violation of federal immigration laws and be removed from office immediately.
Posted by Nick on May 19, 2007 10:56 AMIts a higher figure than that even..........
From my point of view we are now outnumbered.
I am responding on behalf of a close friend who is an immigrant waiting for something
positive to happen regarding this situation. I have witnessed a law abiding and hard working person lose jobs
just due to the fact the he does not have “good” papers.
He has been in the United States now for 10 years and has
paid his way through college,
had payroll taxes deducted from
a paycheck, has had a driver’s
license, checking account, and
has learned English. Believe
me, I am probably more tired of
“sneaking ” around and fearing
he will be picked up or deported every time he leaves
the house than he is. I am a
U.S. citizen and am sick and tired of waiting for the government to finally do something. It cannot happen soon enough!!!!!
sorry larry , i was not refereing to you as the liberal scum , i was stating liberals in general, yeah i know americas youth doesnt have the choice cause all the illegals are taking thier jobs like fast food which was made for high school kids and are now being filled by illegals who dont speak english who are in their 30's , i worked hard all my life and now , yes i do sit in an air conditioned office and i like it , lol , yeah i am just as mad as most patriotic americans about the whole situation as well , but sorry did not mean to offend you in any way
Where is Keith? I get the feeling his last cursing of larrymc got him stricken from the forum. I warned him. I advised him he was monitored; he wouldn't listen. Keep it clean and civil, guys and gals. Me, your friendly deicide.
Posted by Richard Grimes Risen Ape r22037@yahoo.com (ffrf.org.) on May 19, 2007 12:57 PMThere has to be at least 12 million in California, alone. And very possibly, that many in LA County.
The 12 million is a sham figure, so the folks don't get alarmed. Bear Stearns and others that actually do some homework tend to believe that the true number is above 25 million!
There has to be at least 12 million in California, alone. And very possibly, that many in LA County.
The 12 million is a sham figure, so the folks don't get alarmed. Bear Stearns and others that actually do some homework tend to believe that the true number is above 25 million!
The government doesn't want accurate figures released, as it would truly ALARM the people that are currently sleeping on the issue.
Posted by RU Serious on May 19, 2007 01:31 PMThe figures given in the book Unarmed Invasion by Frosty Wooldridge published about 4 years ago put the number of illegals in the USA at between 20 - 30 MILLION at that time. Noboy really knows since they are pouring over our borders daily. We have almost lost our country, not by being invaded by a large well armed enemy, not by simply giving our nation away, no, we were SOLD to the highest bidder (big business) by many of our own elected politicans. God Bless America, we are going to need it !
Posted by Rocky on May 19, 2007 02:58 PMWe better hit the phones on Monday or we will have to hit the streets later. We are being sold down the river. I will be lighting up the switch boards in Washington on Monday .
Posted by bill on May 19, 2007 03:51 PMRocky,
Amen to that one.
bill,
I think it's too late to light up the switchboards and take to the streets. The politicians know how we feel about this issue. No, this requires a more extreme measure.
Posted by John II on May 19, 2007 04:11 PMJohn II: "I think it's too late to light up the switchboards and take to the streets. The politicians know how we feel about this issue. No, this requires a more extreme measure."
John II likes to sound ominous without really saying anything. I presume it feeds his ego.
Posted by Truth on May 19, 2007 04:24 PMTruth,
There is no one within the posts of RMN with a bigger ego than yours. In fact, your ego could "fast" for forty days and nights and still need to lose pride.
President Bush Please Come to Denver2007
From: Lee / 'We The People of Colorado'
19th de Mayo-
I have been in The United States for a very long time and have managed to give back to my denver community in ways that I will forever be giving back. (philanthropy
faith-based)
I am forever indebted to all of you who have pulled along in my own political situation. I understand about how you may be feeling I/We pose a 'conflicto de interes' and thank you -you have offered up prayers to The Heavenly Father Of Truths, 'Jesucristo' and the Holy Spirit! On my own behalf.
Numeral Uno es El de los cielos! Muchisimas Gracia's A Todos Los Companeros 'Guestworkers-USA'
also the many Thanks to all ya'll
in TEXAS.
My Family In Texas, Louisiana,
Cailfornia. Kudos!
President George W. Bush:
I, Eli Chairez wish to call you back to Denver
on the seriousness of my own immgration crises and I thought you might appreciate
I tell you if not hand over to you. My papers and documentation and mabye some of my portfolio which is also in the hands of my
friend and amigo Civil Rights Lawyer Mr. Walter Gerash. I am backed by The Urban League of metropolitan Denver, and
NewsEd Corporation on Santa Fe Blvd.
I am in need of some humanitarian assistance and my Immigration matters require your attention now more than ever
Washington, DC. to -"Eli Chairez-Clendenin"
por favor, From The WhiteHouse otherwise now known as The CasaBlanca! (just kidding fellow friend and President Bush and Family.
Colorado loves Mexico and Mexico loves Colorado-Yee Haw! ARRIBA! RRIBA!
I totally wished I lived in Aspen right about now Even if it were just to take care of some billionaires ranch property. Aspen, I love you.
just like everybody loved that Country Boy
John Denver.
"CO., growing up in Colorado has turned into one of life's most wondrous journey for me.
I have reached it seems the ' highest peak' just getting to know you all and work with everybody at different jobs, on different projects!
I am literally speechless. I cannot express how mar'vel'us this feels for me to have triumphed in my life. and I could not have done anything without the 'corporation of All.'
Siempre Amigos!
Eli Chairez-Clendenin
copyright 5/2007
" Could we please come together in Colorado and wish your neighbors a good night . We can all sleep tonight because
my own Immigration Crises and Case speaks to How I learned President Bush
has helped to save national security and
America- The United States Of America."
Sinceramente,
"Eli Chairez-Clendenin (Lee)."
(google)
Gay latino human rights leader
Global Player, Int.
Copyright 5/2007
Team USA-Durango, Mexico. MX.
Bienvenidos a Estados Unidos
Campaign to fight the injustices
of predudices and hate on
Immigrants and International
Communities, nationwide
USA-America!
Copyright 5/2007
" I am told that Citizens of The United States Of America and even rock groups like
LoverBoy have said they 'hope you gain your
citizenship' autographs by others."
I never believed The republicans. I don't think many did to be honest with you. I mean since the dawning of The Reagan ERA America had been the cause of much destruction which came in the forms of much 'torture' and 'abuse' on our individual lives and our families. Finally, in Colorado we came to agree and be convinced The Tancredistas had really been puuling a veil over taxpayers
eyes. anonomous
"Mr. President you are not the enemy your own party has made you out to be. My Own Immigration crises and situation I believe you'll find..speaks on it's on merits. i have worked hard behind Human Rights and
peace in America, I ask you to please
find some consideration on my behalf."
"I need only The WhiteHouse to send someone to meet with me and my
Church and Family."
May God Bless USA. All!
Siempre Amore,
Lee
Copyright 5/2007
Lee
If those yuppity liberals in Aspen won't have you, you come live with me in Texas. At least you can until my term is over. Then you're on your own cause I won't need you for political gain anymore. You see, I really wouldn't let your illegal butt into our country at all if it weren't for the votes you represent.
hoimaha, this isn't a conservative vs liberal issue and blaming liberals for this mess will only result in more division and more gap for the problem to just grow.
This is about buying locally and being willing as consumers to pay a higher price for goods if that means that Americans and legal aliens are used to produce the goods and services we buy.
It is also about voting on issues and peformance and not being led down the chute.
Most of all it is about our current willingness to accept an economic model that says that it will all work out for the best if we just trust the free market to solve all problems.
Buy American, employ locally, vote on issues.
Posted by Bango Skank on May 19, 2007 06:57 PM"Truth, There is no one within the posts of RMN with a bigger ego than yours. In fact, your ego could "fast" for forty days and nights and still need to lose pride.
Posted by amazed on May 19, 2007 04:38 PM"
Thanks. I'm truly humbled by your compliment.
Posted by Truth on May 19, 2007 07:39 PMQuoting Charlie Reynolds, "In light of these numbers, I think some enterprising investigative journalist should look into this 12 million illegal immigrant estimate and get back to us. I doubt it will happen. If the American people knew the actual numbers involved, the immigration debate might take a different course."
Don't expect the Snews and its crack team of OPINION columnists of Griego, Johnson and Littwin to do such an investigative piece. Even if John "I love illegal aliens" Temple begrudgingly gave in to Scripps management for such an investigative story; he would edit it to death to make it sound good to the pro-illegal alien crowd.
I'm somewhat surprised that illegal alien Anderson hasn't posted yet.
Both newspapers are too liberal to write a journalistic piece on the complete pros and cons of illegal immigration. They do not want the public to make an informed decision based on all facts - just the facts furthering their desired goals.
Thank God for the internet and "citizen" journalists!
Posted by DS on May 20, 2007 06:12 AMMr. Skank
"Most of all it is about our current willingness to accept an economic model that says that it will all work out for the best if we just trust the free market to solve all problems."
Who said it would solve all our problems? Capitalism is not perfect. But, it is the best system for managing 300,000,000 people that we know of.
"Buy American, employ locally, vote on issues."
I used to be much more of the "Buy American" mentality than I am now. I have no problem paying more for an American product. But, I do have a problem paying for poor quality.
I used to despise people who buy Japanese and German cars. I always tried to remind people to Buy American. But, Japan and Germany raised the bar for automotive quality. In addition to saving people the cost of repairing their vehicles, German cars also saved lives. German cars introduced anti-lock brakes and the airbag. Now, these features are standard on most American cars.
So, now my attitude has shifted. I want America to be very competitive. I will not buy American out of pity or passion. Given two similar products within a reasonable price range, I'll choose American.
Posted by John II on May 20, 2007 08:50 AMI said:
"I will not buy American out of pity or passion. Given two similar products within a reasonable price range, I'll choose American."
I cringed after rereading that. What I meant to say was that I'd favor buying an American product over a similar foreign on the basis of quality, not pity.
Posted by John II on May 20, 2007 10:27 AMI like how the letter writter challenges the 12 million figure (with no evidence other than his unsupported assertion of how many people cross the border), then kind of puts his finger to the wind in order to get to a figure he likes better. Are you scared? I'm scared.
Posted by anderson on May 20, 2007 11:11 AMBefore getting into the speculative part of this letter, however, he did ask a reasonable question. Where do we get the figure? Answer: from professional demographers, based largely, I believe, on U.S. census figures. Moreover, it's a number that most people agree on. But the scary boo boo crowd, who cares not a whit about accuracy, or reasonable estimates, are always willing to give you different numbers. So the question to the question is: do you want reason, or do you want fright? Professionals lean toward the former, Dobbs et al toward the latter.
Posted by anderson on May 20, 2007 11:20 AMNot to worry: I heard a Repub say this morning on Meet The Press that the Act contained language in the event of non-compliance to wit: The provision says we can ask them to leave. Me, your friendly deicide
Posted by Richard Grimes Risen Ape r22037@yahoo.com(http://www.geocities.com/r22037/think.html) on May 20, 2007 01:17 PM
Posted by Richard Grimes Risen Ape http://www.geocities.com/r22037/think.html on May 20, 2007 01:22 PMThe people that say Americans will not take the jobs that illegal aliens do have not studied Economics.If illegal aliens were kicked out of this country tomorrow the wages for the jobs they do would go up.For example if a janitor now makes $7 an hour the price may go to $10 an hour.It is basic supply and demand.You would not even have to raise the minium wage because all low level jobs would pay a decent wage.Not to mention the money you would save in health care and the prison population.
Posted by Ron on May 20, 2007 02:59 PMLet's see, whenever we talk about raising the minimum wage (let's imagine it's proposed to raise from $7 to $10), industry lobbyists say that the result will be a loss in jobs. But Ron says, if immigrants leave, wages will raise, and jobs (for natives) will be gained (because they weren't willing to work for $7 hour).
Posted by anderson on May 20, 2007 03:18 PManderson,
Are you refuting Ron or just parroting him? Ron is correct. When the labor market is flooded, wages will decrease. When labor market is tight, wages will rise. Now, when you throw a minimum wage into this mix, businesses that would have hired two workers at $3 per hour, will now only hire one worker at $6 per hour. This causes an increase in unemployment (usually among young black males).
Posted by John II on May 20, 2007 05:52 PMBack around 9/11 the figure commonly used to estimate the illegals in this nation was 25-30 million. Over the past 5 years, the figure keeps getting quoted smaller and smaller. I'd bet my paycheck the true amount is closer to 40 million that it is to 12 million.
Ron Paul for President.