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Russell W. Shurts of Centennial writes:

In a previous letter I declared that what the ‘208 Commission’ proposes to do to the citizens of Colorado is vile because it violates their rights. I assume many wondered, “How could a commission devoted to ‘studying’ options for providing health care to uninsured Coloradoans be considered a violation of anybody’s rights?” Here’s how.
Medical care, like any good or service, must be developed and delivered to be of any use. The people who provide this service have devoted a significant portion of their time and their money to developing the abilities and goods we value as the medical profession. Any proposal by the government to deliver ANY of the goods and services these people have developed violates their right to do with their property, their abilities and their lives as they see fit. If a man is to have any rights at all, he MUST have the right to decide what to do with his own time and property, i.e. his own life.
But, since this only violates the rights of the providers of medical care, you might ask, “How, as you previously claimed, does this violate the rights of the rest of us?” It violates our rights in two ways. First, in order to provide these goods and services to people who haven’t paid for them, the government will have to obtain said payment from the rest of us, thus violating our right to use our own property for our own purposes. And second, by dictating that medical goods and services are to be provided for ‘all who need them,’ the government will be required to step in and dictate the terms of what will be provided and at what payment. By so doing, the government will deprive the rest of us of the right to make our own decisions about what kind of medical care we will receive, from whom and at what cost.
I submit to you that anything that violates the rights of the citizens of Colorado as much as the 208 Commission’s eventual proposal to socialize medicine will is vile. It needs to be stopped by all people who still value their freedom.

This letter has not been edited.

READER COMMENTS

Socialized medicine has failed at EVERY level in countries that have it.

Doctors overworked,underpaid,why should doctors do their best for faceless bureaucrats? Patients die before they can get to the head of loooooooooong lines, which always exist under socialistic medicine.

The only consolation with socialized medicine is people do not get billed for the pathetic "free" government medical services it offers. Citizen's taxes pay for it.

Alot of misery and agony for "free"

I will take our flawed medical system over socialistic medicine ANY day.

Do you REALLY want government to step in and attempt a cure for the current U.S. system concerning medical care???

I agree we need "reform" but, initiate changes that are beneficial to the public.

Remember this ..."Socialized medicine is a prescription for an early death."

As usual: Lots of assertions about "Socialized medicine", but no evidence. Topped off with a cute slogan at the end. Par for the course.

Ask Canadians why they come to America for treatment other than a cold! Their socialized
system is in shambles. Even members of their Supreme Court called the system "danderous and deadly"

Chief Justice Beverly McLachin and Justice John Major of the supreme Court of Canada had this to say concerning medical cases brought before them.

They wrote: "The evidence the cases show that delays in the public health care system, are WIDESPREAD, and that, in some SERIOUS cases,patients die as a result of waiting lists for public health care.

American companies routinely advertise in major Canadian dailies, offering TIMELY health care. No wonder that, a few years back more than 80% of Canadians rated the system"in crisis! " Throughout Europe, the story is one of a slow but steady abandonment of public healthcare.

Ask Canadians why they come to America for treatment other than a cold!

More lies and propaganda from the insurance industry lobbyists, and you've swallowed it hook, line, and sinker. (And they've got the money to spend to spread these lies, thanks to the jacked up premiums they extort from us and our employers and denying medical treatment at their whim.)

Also, Canadians live on average longer than Americans. So to whoever said socialized medicine is a prescription for early death might want to give some more thought to that.

We even have a higher infant mortality rate, maybe Canadian new-borns are genetically better then us.

When Canadians come here, their government pays us. It took me forever to find that out. When we go to Canada for anything, we pay.

Oh boy, here comes Charles B.and Sharon B.and Mytwosense. All the other advocates for socialized medicine will soon swoop in and demonize anyone who doesn't agree with their Utopian sense of government control.
They gang up on people and blast the hell out of them. Go to the Canadian websites and blogs concerning healthcare if you think it's all lies and propaganda.

BTW Sharon B. Many, many, Canadians have healthy lives because they come to America for treatment!!!! Look it up!

Remember ANYONE who dares to disagree,with their group is a liar, stupid, or uninformed.

Also, if you will read my first post I agree that our current system is definately flawed but, "single payer" "public health care" "socialized medicine" in my opinion is NOT the answer!

If the government needs to be involved they should look at the Australian health care system and have MINIMAL involvement.
In the Australian health care system, people are FREE to choose "public" or "private health care. They have programs that cover the aged, mental illness and the very poor. Australia is also about the same size as America including Alaska.

Now "go ahead" pick everything I have written apart. I know it is HARD for you people to understand that many Americans would like the FREEDOM to choose their own medical care.

Now "go ahead" pick everything I have written apart. I know it is HARD for you people to understand that many Americans would like the FREEDOM to choose their own medical care.

I don't have any interest in picking apart everything you have to say, my interest is more geared towards clearing up some of the exaggerated claims out there - for example, that Canadians come here in droves to get medical care. If you are of the school that believes this, please back it up with reliable data.

This report delves into the subject in-depth, and refutes those claims: http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/abstract/21/3/19

And certainly the life expectancy rate of Canadians indicates that their system is not a "prescription for early death."

There are wait times for some specialist procedures and treatments in Canada, and the report I cited talks about that, too. However, if you research most (neutral source) polls about Canadians' feelings on their health care system, the majority is not in favor of transferring to a system like we have here in the U.S. By and large, they like their system, but want to see more funding go towards it. In the nineties, their system was underfunded and that led to some problems.

There are many models we could look at and incorporate the best elements of into our own system. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be a part of a debate that has hysterical proclamations of "socialism" in it. No one seems to want to actually acknowledge what works in many of these single-payer systems in place today, because they fear any acknowledgement of that deems them a "socialist."

I for one am willing to hear a reasoned discussion about a solution that will wean us off our employer-funded system and drive down healthcare costs to the point we can actually pay for our healthcare again out of pocket. I do not see how such a system would be possible without serious curtailing of the insurance, pharmaceutical, and hospital industries' current practices. However, anti-single payer folks yowl at any mention of government regulation in that area, too.

What is it that you people want? Are you seriously satisfied with our current system and feel healthcare costs are reasonable and fair? Because that is the impression I am getting when I read zero mention of what appear to me to be glaring problems in our current system:

- At least 45 million uninsured people in this country

- A healthcare system entirely dependent on where and if someone is employed

- Major outsourcing of American jobs as employers seek ways to cut costs (and providing healthcare to their employees is a major percentage of those costs)

- Having limited choices in doctors, hospitals, and procedures dependent on an insurance plan and the insurance company's whim to either approve or deny treatment

- Staggering prescription and prodecure costs that make paying out of pocket for even a sinus infection prohibitive

Those are what I see as a few of our biggest problems. If you agree those are problems, perhaps you can offer a solution other than single-payer that would solve them. Again, I am willing to listen. I may have questions, and I may refute your points, if I feel there is merit to. But I won't be disrespectful to you or call you names or drag out stats and data from glaringly biased sources.

T: "If the government needs to be involved they should look at the Australian health care system and have MINIMAL involvement. In the Australian health care system, people are FREE to choose "public" or "private health care. They have programs that cover the aged, mental illness and the very poor. "

Sounds like a single payer system to me. Tell us more about the Australian model-- preferably without the rhetorical flourishes.

Well folks,

I do wish these people who equate "health care" with "socialized medicine" would come right out and say that they also don't believe in immunizations, vaccinations, disease prevention, epidemic control, food and drug regulations, flouridation, occupational health and safety, or any of the rest of the host and multitude of REAL HEALTH CARE benefits that our society has today.

At least they would be half-way honest about their beliefs and presentations.

But, just mention "health care" in terms of the common good, and the general welfare of all citizens; and these people start yammering, "socialist medicine"; as if that really meant something, and had anything at all to do with attempting to solve problems stemming from the potential disasters to society as a whole from situations in which those who don't have totally and completely private income funded medical service and care are at risk.

The letter writer is an excellent example. His position translates, simply, into one in which the Doctor can charge whatever it be he can collect; and to hell with anyone who can't affort to pay. If someone doesn't have money enough to afford medicine, or medical help, let him just die off. I've got mine; and I don't intend to let anyone take what's mine away from me. And be damned to everyone else.

T,

It's very hard to mistake the underlying reality of your position. NO ONE YET has even begun to suggest that you, or any other American is going to have to lose your "freedom of medical choice".

You finally come up with the possibility of what you call the "Australian" way; but you start off by slamming everyone else who even begins to use "health care" as a part of their presentation. If you really thought that the Australian method was workable - or adaptable to the somewhat more complex culture here in the United States, you would recognize that the ideas of "single payer", "universal insurance", etc., are different ways of offering potentials; and then perhaps work towards a reasonable position - sometimes called compromise - that might be offered in place of just the buzz-word, "socialist".

(And maybe you would be able to stop sluring people who do offer plans under other titles, and who would - and do - welcome genuine debate.) But you don't begin that way; and you really can't expect reply to something you, yourself, don't come up with until you have gotten "socialist/socialism" in place to deride anything and everything else.

T: "many Americans would like the FREEDOM to choose their own medical care."

It takes more than freedom to choose your own medical care. It also takes money, money which millions of Americans don't have. True, there are a good many "tough shoot' people around, but their voices are constantly dwindling.

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