Illegals & education
Hmm. It is a puzzler. I imagine the Rocky and Denver Schools looked pretty hard to find Beach Court Elementary, with its 95% “Hispanic” (to you and me, that’s “children of illegal aliens”) population but with a 78% reading proficiency rate. Good for them.
I wonder though: if I were to sneak across the border with my kids and enroll them in a Mexican school, would that school bend over backward to make sure my kids are tested in English, as 89% of those “proficient” readers
This letter has not been edited.
The letter writer evidently finds that *some* children are worthy of an education but others are not (the disqualifier being their heritage). That sounds real bright. I can't wait for the day when we have gangs of uneducated illiterate children running around without any prospects.
Apparently our educational system failed in some respect with this letter writer too.
the letter writer from Arvada took his "education" at the lap of talk radio.
the education system failed this idiot from Arvada.
Posted by anderson on May 13, 2007 12:44 PMAnd I guess I failed as an editor, intending only the first paragraph to see the light of day. Alas, the darker recesses of my mind are exposed.
Posted by anderson on May 13, 2007 12:49 PMJ.M. Schell: "with its 95% “Hispanic” (to you and me, that’s “children of illegal aliens”) "
Of course, Schell doesn't have the slightest idea of how many of the Hispanics are illegal immigrants. But truth does not really carry any weight with people like him.
Schell also apparently thinks that the United States ought to pattern itself after Mexico. Let's do it the way they do it" seems to be his message. I personally would like for the United States to continue pursuing a loftier goal than that.
It is to the great advantage of the United States to educate all of the children who live here, rather than strive to create a caste system such as they have in India. We don't educate children only for the benefit of the children. Just as important, we educate them for the benefit of our nation.
Posted by Truth on May 13, 2007 01:41 PMyou people still don't understand the term illegal alien and how out tax dollars are going to help them instead of the people in this country that were born of people who were native to this country , i am native American and i have seen Mexico and i have seen 47 states and Canada and if you go to Canada or Mexico illegally you get put in jail then sent back to where ever you came from , hell some countries will kill you, they will not supply with en education besides dont come back unless your legal, this should be done with America, but bleeding heart liberals like Anderson who wants to welcome everyone here with open arms regardless of background or education, i feel everyone has a right to an education, but there is a legal way to do it so it doesn't destroy this country.
oh also anderson, there are already uneducated gangs running around this nation and 70% of them are Latino in which 20% of that are illegal, pick up a book and read preferably an economics book
Posted by hoimaha on May 13, 2007 02:15 PMhoimaha, please don't take it upon yourself to make up my positions out of thin air.
"oh also anderson, there are already uneducated gangs running around this nation (uses statistics intented to make us dislike Latinos)"
And so your solution is to what? Create more?
Let's see, we seem to have two positions going here: hate, or educate? What shall it be, folks? It's real easy to detest children, isn't it--especially if they're the wrong kind of children?
hoimaha, you have the same lack of standards and intelligence as Schell. Like Schell, you think we should base our policies on the values of Mexico rather than on our own values. Disgraceful.
And like Schell, you apparently like the idea of creating a subclass in America, such as they have in countries which you want to to replicate, such as Mexico. Disgraceful.
And how stupid can one person be!! You don't want us to educate the children of illegal immigrants, on the one hand, and, on the other, you complain that we have all these unedcuated illegal immigrants running around. Talk about uneducated people running around; they are not all illegal.
Some people are bleeding hearts. Example: Mother Teresa. Others, such as you, are hard-hearted. Example: the KKK. I myself prefer the former.
Posted by Truth on May 13, 2007 04:02 PM
Man O man, it didn't take long for Anderson, and Truth to start beating on the pro-illegal drums and insulting people by calling them names.
Mr. Schell, these people lurk around these threads and just wait to jump on anyone who disagrees with their liberal "oh those POOR illegals" agenda. My advice completely IGNORE their comments. You will see a few more posts from the blind "bleeding hearts."
I truly believe Anderson, Truth, and the rest you will be hearing from owns businesses that hire the illegals, OR La Raza pays them to try and convince the FED UP American citizens that the illegals are innocent, fine upstanding people here to HELP out the U.S. BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Of course I don't know how they can justify their ANTI-American, PRO-illegal viewpoints. Every a single word I had read from them totally convinces me that they are far left pro-illegal activists.
Schnell's motto:
"Denigration, not Education!"
Perhaps Tancredo can use this as a campaign slogan.
Posted by anderson on May 13, 2007 06:11 PM05:48PM: the most intelligent part of your post:
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Posted by Truth on May 13, 2007 07:25 PMYep , JM this is now a nation wide phenomena. All that will happen is more cash is spent on these illegal aliens and the screwing of the American citizen continues. We really need to end this madness before this country is a third world mess. It is a sad situation indeed and will not get better if concessions to illegal aliens continue.
Posted by Ben on May 13, 2007 08:39 PMIllegal aliens
On Sunday, April 15, readers were greeted on the front page of the Times with an article about the struggles of illegal aliens.
The pro-immigrant Center for Immigration Studies, the Institute for Immigration Reform, and a study completed at Rice University have empirical data proving that illegals take more from American taxpayers than they contribute in health care, education and costs of crime.
The pro-illegal crowd says "racist" about anyone who opposes them. Why? First, because they don't know what the word means and, second, because they cannot come up with an intelligent argument for their position.
And, no, this country was not built on "the brown backs of cheap labor," as one writer recently wrote. It was built by leaders like Washington, Jefferson and King and whose vision for America did not include 12 million illegal aliens who could care less for our sovereignty and who are draining us dry.
Pete Porter
West El Paso
AMERICAN CITIZENS FIRST IN ALL THINGS!
Posted by on May 13, 2007 09:06 PMIn our education system, sadly, the bulk of the instructional time and resources are spent at the bottom end. Guess who is at the bottom end? Yup. The students to whom English isn't even a second language yet and the vast majority of them just so happen to come from one particular country and are not here legally. But we are supposed to pay for their education at the expense of the education of U.S. citizens.
If Anderson loves spending his tax money meant for our kids on them, maybe he'd be willing to pay my share for me.
Posted by RU Serious on May 13, 2007 10:02 PM"If Anderson loves spending his tax money meant for our kids on them, maybe he'd be willing to pay my share for me."
This would imply that anderson thinks about the consequences of his political stances, which doesn't seem to be the case after reading his other posts.
Posted by No use on May 13, 2007 10:36 PMAnderson & Truth:
Please provide your addresses so I can send you the bill that my wife and me pay to educate and provide other government services to illegal aliens through our taxes.
We are sick and tired of paying for these illegal alien leeches. You love them, you pay for them. Think of it as a store's "You break it, you bought it" policy. Let me guess...you break it and run away.
Posted by QBT on May 13, 2007 11:11 PMthis issue will never be resolved as long as people are unwilling to call a spade a spade. the 'illegal' immigrant does not pay taxes as some would like us to believe. they claim 7 dependents on their income tax forms to avoid paying taxes. this leaves us, those who are here legally, to foot the bill for all of the services they unashamedly use. jm schnell is correct, if we were to sneak over their border, they'd send us back quicker than you can say illegal immigrant. a spade is that they broke our laws by crossing over our borders illegally. send them back where they belong and don't let them come back period.
Posted by ktr on May 14, 2007 04:37 AMSome people are bleeding hearts. Example: Mother Teresa. Others, such as you, are hard-hearted. Example: the KKK. I myself prefer the former.
calling me a racist, i am not a racist, my roomate is west blackenese and my wife is hispasian, any i am wagonburner redskin, i am not a racist, i am anti illegal, hence the word ILLEGA, pick up a freakin dictionary and read it you f@#king liberal, you wanna pay their education go for it , as a matter of fact go to mexico with them and help them there , i have many immagrant friends from Germany, Bulgaria, Mexico,and Chile , the thing is , they are here legally on student visa and most came here with PhD's under their belt and they are furthering the college community for the better , not mooching off of our government like Illegal Aliens which is not a racist term , as again pick up a dictionary you uneducated liberal and get yourself an education, you cant give anyone an education if you dont even have the gall to get one yourself
last comment was meant for truth and anderson
Posted by hoimaha on May 14, 2007 06:54 AMThe usual suspects on these discussions are either useful idiots or latino activists.
Either way, they are VASTLY outnumbered and they know it. I don't buy a word of their crap.
They can scream racist all day long. It won't change the fact that we are still a nation and we have every right to control our borders. What they say will never mean a damn thing to me.
Posted by truthy on May 14, 2007 07:03 AMThanks, truthy, for your temper tantrum. I promise not to tell your mother.
Posted by Truth on May 14, 2007 07:08 AMOnce again Truth...Lame response!!!!
Posted by A on May 14, 2007 07:29 AMhoimaha,
Thank you for the epithet you used for "liberals". As with "Keith", you show an outstanding status with respect to expressing the "conservative" position.
The problem, however, is a good deal more complex than the Tancredoite "solutions" would have it. And, as to "racism", perhaps you would like to detach yourself from the constant slurs and slams directed at ALL those the "conservatives" see as being the cause of every one of the country's troubles. Should you do so, your position might become a bit more "respectable", perhaps.
We have a large number of aliens currently in this country. That they have arrived here without following those Statutes concerning immigration that were passed following World War 2 does, technically, make them "illegal"; and no one with any real sense at all denies that this is a major problem.
The solution to the problem, in and of itself. as proposed by Tancredoites - and fellow travelers - is: "Round them up and deport them". Followed by: "Build a wall on our borders." As a simplistic approach, it makes for a good set of slogans. BUT . . . ! How this is to be implemented? And more to the point, how it is to all be paid for? These questions do deal with parts of the proposed "solution" that no one has - as yet anyway - dealt with. All we hear is a: "Make it happen!" set of "war cries", coupled with nasty remarks about those of us who even begin to ask the basic questions of cost, etc.
Then we have the added complexity of the fact that many of these currently illegal aliens have children, some of whom are - by provision of the Constitution of the United States - citizens of this country by birth. The proposal here, as vocalized loudly, and without the slightest degree of thought, is one that would simply ignore the reality of the Constitution in favor of the howling mob.
Oh, yes! These illegals also have children in school. And here the answer is . . . ? Are you advocating a policy of just throwing children out of school, onto the streets? Or do you have a plan - even the ghost of a plan - for what to do here?
Then we add in "health care". Again, the mob simply wants nothing more than to "keep them away". Which is a rather idiotic idea, in a world where epidemic disease no longer depends upon slow travel - horse and buggy, or ocean liner - for its spread. But of course, they're illegal; so why bother with care, such as vaccinations, etc., etc., for the good of the rest of society as a whole?
And, while the above are just a few of the complexities, in the interest of short posting, we come down to the constantly hateful and RACIST way in which Latinos, of any and all origins, but most particularly from Mexico, are slammed, and slurred, along with their country of origin. Not to have to mention the insults hurled against anyone who refuses to join this kind of RACIST, and BIGOTED, mob brawling form of disgraceful lack of fundamental respect for other human beings.
There is an old saying about ducks: If it waddles, quacks, swims, and associates with, it's one of them. So too with racists and bigots. Or, the other old saying: What you do shouts so loud I cannot hear what you are saying by way of attempting to excuse yourself.
Again, thanks for the epithet. I've been called much worse over the years. But if it puts me in the ranks of those who seek solutions, rather than mob excitement - and those be "liberals" in your eyes - that's where I am.
Posted by Old Grouch on May 14, 2007 08:07 AMOld Grouch = Latino Activist.
Posted by truthy on May 14, 2007 08:23 AMtruthy,
Better than being Tancredo's Mortimer Snerd.
Posted by Old Grouch on May 14, 2007 09:03 AM[ ]
Posted by truthy on May 14, 2007 09:10 AMOoops! Sorry!
I certainly apologize for having insulted Mortimer Snerd.
Posted by Old Grouch on May 14, 2007 10:05 AMhttp://globalpolitician.com/articleshow.asp?ID=2799&cid=1
Posted by truthy on May 14, 2007 10:14 AMtruthy,
Your 07:03 AM posting summarized the article as well as could be expected. And we've already read your assertions that whatever anyone else says will never mean a damn to you. But, that aside.
I was attempting to address "hoimaha", who has shown the ability to discern the problem from the rhetoric before.
Earlier on - back on the Letter concerning "Iraq War & Congress" - I offered this: "The one individual on this whole forum who is the most outstanding, most representative, most expressive, and most articulate voice of "conservatism" is the individual posting as "Keith". No one presents the "conservative" position, on anything and everything, better than he does."
Now of course, it's just my opinion; but I might add that you are certainly showing yourself to be a very close second in the ranks.
Posted by Old Grouch on May 14, 2007 10:37 AMI like how the anti-Mexican crowd pull out their "I am not a racist" card (e.g., hoimaha, ben) before anyone even raises the issue, and then tries to undercut other opinions by flashing it about. Feeling a little sensitive about this, boys? Old Grouch of course is correct, that racism colors the immigration debate (Schnell's letter is prime evidence), but we don't need to point fingers at anyone.
Meanwhile, they present the usual pack of lies and misrepresentations about costs and taxes. Ben describes the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS), an organization that favors restricting immigration, as "pro-immigrant"--apparently because they make their arguments with real data instead of pulling numbers out of a hole in the ground like the anti-Mexican groups do. I repeat: CIS favors restricting immigration. I hope someone can comprehend English here.
I believe there is a real correlation between the presence of racism and the willingness of people to tell and accept lies about the targeted group. I've come to learn that no lie is too low or too stupid for the anti-Mexican crowd (ktr's comment about taxes is a good example).
hoimaha, yes, I know exactly what *you* mean by the term "illegal alien"--you mean to say they are less-than-human, or distinctly inferior to you. Words can mean different things to different people, however, and your use of the word is different than the meaning that might be given to the term, say, by a court of law, or an immigration official. Of course, like the people you decry, you want words to have only one meaning, one purpose, and one existence.
Posted by anderson on May 14, 2007 10:56 AMOld Grouch,
I really don't care what your opinion of me or anyone else is. Honestly, you place way too much importance on yourself. I've got your number.
Posted by truthy on May 14, 2007 11:03 AMhoimaha, there isn't any point in talking to anderson. He spouts the same thoughtless points each time a letter is written about illegal immigration, and then proceed to talk about how much data there is to support his position without ever providing any of it. You're talking to a brick wall.
Posted by No use on May 14, 2007 11:39 AMHispanic activists are JUST AS RACIST as any WHITE SUPREMISIST could ever be. To focus so much on ones race is the VERY DEFINITION of racism. Hypocrites one and all!
Posted by truthy on May 14, 2007 11:45 AM11:39: I've provided plenty of data, but no, I'm not going to do it every time, cause it takes too much time and I get the feeling it goes unread. If you were interested at all in my point of view, you might ask questions (or, god forbid, do some research on your own), but, it's obvious you've made up your mind and don't want to hear any dissenting points of view. See no evil. Hear no evil. Speak no evil.
Posted by anderson on May 14, 2007 12:06 PM"like how the anti-Mexican crowd pull out their "I am not a racist" card (e.g., hoimaha, ben)"
this is your post right anderson, anti mexican, = racist right , anyone else agree??
Posted by hoimaha on May 14, 2007 12:08 PMYou evidently have problems comprehending plain English. But that's par for the course. You'd rather attack than think.
Posted by anderson on May 14, 2007 12:14 PMi posted above statement for anderson since he says he did not call me a racist, just used the politically correct term anti mexican, anti mexican = racist
Posted by hoimaha on May 14, 2007 12:17 PMWell, there you go, waving your "I am not a racist" card again--as if to say, "Anyone here who says a word about racism is wrong about everything else. Period." You guys should really have your own parade. In the immigrant rallies they carry signs that said "I am not a criminal!". You could carry signs that say, "I am not a racist!"
No, anti-Mexican does not equal racist. But the latter is certainly a subset of the former. However, by mentioning this delicate detail, I'm sure I am wrong about everything else. Period.
Posted by anderson on May 14, 2007 12:28 PM"I'm sure I am wrong about everything else. Period."
anderson and i finally agree , sweet it has been so long
Posted by hoimaha on May 14, 2007 12:52 PMHoimaha,
In your 12:08 posting you ask a question that, unfortunately, actually contains its own answer in the equation given. To be "anti" any given nationality, or skin color, is a form of "racism".
Just for a short while, take any of the postings claiming all the faults and failings of the illegal immigrants (or aliens) and substitute "black" for the word Mexican. Or, since you are of Native American ancestry, substitute your own Nation.
Do you see what we mean when we want to separate the problems of the presence of the illegal aliens from the rhetoric about their language and/or cultural differences, or both?
Of course, we all fall into the trap from time to time. Everyone has particulars he, or she, dislikes about others, even those of his, or her, own background. It is when these differences come to overshadow the attempts to arrive at starting points for identification of complexities, and/or attempts to deal with plans to try to solve the problems themselves, that the whole idea of discussion, debate, and constructive exchange of ideas breaks down.
And again, unfortunately, that seems to be the way in which any and every attempt to deal with discussion, debate, and constructive exchange of ideas is dealt with by those for whom that kind of sensible posting is either impossible or deliberately avoided in favor of the kind of thing we see here from example.
After all, when someone ("truthy" for instance) starts out by telling everyone that nothing the other parties might have to say means a damn to him, what purpose is there in further attempt to deal with ideas?
I will leave it at that.
truthy,
You could live to be twice as old as I am, and you would never "have my number", little boy. And, thank you for the hilariously amusing comments you made earlier about me. Now, go tell your Mommy she needs you.
Posted by Old Grouch on May 14, 2007 02:11 PMOld Grouch = Latino Activist
Posted by truthy on May 14, 2007 02:16 PMtwoothy, given your several authoritive pronouncements about the non-existence of racism (except of course amongst Latino and black activists), it appears you represent the Committee of White Persons who Really Control America. Can you give us an estimate as to when it will be acceptable to talk about racism again? Or has this disease pretty much been eradicated (amongst white people anyway)?
Meanwhile, me and my white friends are gonna celebrate this no-racism news by singing: (to the tune of "We are Family"):
"We are not rac-ists
it all stopped when Rosa sat on the bus
We are not rac-ists
Get up everybody and sing!"
Ola, Meester Handerson, Meester Truth, y Meester Old Grouch,
Yo am soooo glad to see chu are steeking up for my peeples becus we chust come aqui for a"the better life." We are gusto peeple who only want to leev here weth our 15 othur ninos y ninas to get the bueno learning the stupidio Amurcans geev to us por nada....Nada. How estupidio, 'corse we weel come aqui. No body stop us....Vamanos todos hermanos....vamanos to the Land of Leche y Honey.
Muchos Gracias to mi compadres, Muchos Gracias to mi hermanos estupidios.
I think everyone needs to take a deep breath. This is an emotional issue but neither side is well represented when the discussion sinks to this level.
Posted by Michael Smith on May 14, 2007 03:59 PMMichael Smith,
I know of no way by which to separate the emotions from the issues. And I use the plural, "issues", because this IS NOT just a "one-size/one-solution fits all" matter. Unfortunately, of course, that's what makes it such a wonderful form of political foot-ball; and perhaps is also why so much gets lost in the "scrimmage".
Time-Out appears to be a very good idea right now.
Posted by Old Grouch on May 14, 2007 04:16 PMYou know, when the discussion starts on the bottom (Schnell's letter), chances are better than not it's gonna stay on the bottom. While I like to keep things at a civil level, and welcome some give and take, I don't feel obligated to coddle bigots or to let false statements go untouched. In fact, that's pretty much why I'm here: to explode low-minded pet notions. When people can start talking about immigration like they're responsible adults, instead of thugs, there will be no need for me to weigh in.
Posted by anderson on May 14, 2007 04:40 PM[ ]
Posted by [Miguel Hernandez] SCAATY on May 14, 2007 04:45 PMAnderson,
You are a fine drama queen. Yes, you sure know how win hearts and minds to your point of view.
Posted by truthy on May 15, 2007 05:15 AMWhat is crystal clear is that our nation is better off with children who live here being educated. The money we pay to educate the children living here is the best investment we can make. That has been true in the past, but it is much more so now in the technological age. We can either build more prisons or more schools. I prefer more schools.
Posted by Truth on May 15, 2007 07:49 AMYou call the "Im a victim. You owe me!" crap taught in our socialist indoctrination centers (Formerly known as public schools) education? I am all for anyone being educated, but as for creating millions more America haters and crybabies, no way.
Posted by truthy on May 15, 2007 08:15 AMRIGHT on Truthy!!!!!!!!!! I agree!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by A on May 15, 2007 08:50 AMHave employers stop paying $3 an hour for illegal work, and have consumers stop buying goods and services from illegals.
Then document the ones here, so we know who is here, and pay them a fair wage. Then they can pay taxes, and the bill for education. As for now think of the savings in paying them $24 a day for laborers, which is the greed we are guilty of, and is going to be our mea culpa fort the next 9/11.
The crime is not wanting to be here, it is being here unknown, which is a national secutrity risk.
So all Hispanics are illegal aliens? I guess all Irish are drunks, and all Italians in the mob, and all blacks on welfare? How educated.
In advocating closing the border, at what point should we have done this, because the only true American are Indians (native Americans).
Posted by David DiBello on May 15, 2007 09:50 AMmy point exactly David, i am a Native American , and totally agree with you on this post
Posted by Hoimaha on May 15, 2007 10:00 AM