Stem cell research
This letter has not been edited.
But tossing them in the garbage is moral.
abortions and stem cell research are not even in the same ball park.
Maybe Brian can hold a little Christian service just before disposal. Put tiny crosses on the garbage can.
If this man is sane, I`m a duck.
Posted by Sharon B. on June 29, 2007 02:25 PMI'm convinced that the reason this guy is called "Stuckey" is because his head is permanently stuck up his butt.
Posted by just sayin' on June 29, 2007 02:40 PMBrian, you really need to stop assuming you hold the same values and ideas as the rest of the country. You are no longer in the majority. The rest of the country can see past bush's attempts to care about human lives. These embryos are not being destroyed, they can not grow any more without the help of fertilization, they are being thrown away instead of being used for research. I don't know why you think that the trash can is a more sacred place than a petry dish. But first and foremost, you need to stop saying that bush thinks the same thing as the rest of the country.
Posted by Larry on June 29, 2007 03:16 PMLarry, two small points, those egg-cells are already fertilized - stem cells result from the fertilization process.
The other point is just fyi, they are usually discarded by being autoclaved. Other places pop them into a biohazard bucket which gets incinerated.
Maybe some toss them into the trash or flush them down the drain, but I wouldn't think that to be normal practice.
The egg cells themselves are fertilized yes, but you can't just put an embryo on the table and it'll make a baby. It needs fertilzation from nutrients and such. Sorry I wasn't very clear on that.
I was using "trash" as anywhere that isn't a womb. Do you know what happens to them after the incineration process? That's right, off to the landfill.
Posted by Larry on June 29, 2007 04:18 PM"Brian, you really need to stop assuming you hold the same values and ideas as the rest of the country. You are no longer in the majority."
Not exactly true there Larry. The majority of Americans still hold Christian values. Granted, it's not the 90+% it was years ago but definitely still in the majority.
Posted by KW on June 29, 2007 04:59 PMThere's Christian values and then there's Stuckey values, and never the twain shall meet.
Posted by UYRMN on June 29, 2007 05:17 PMKW said:
"The majority of Americans still hold Christian values. Granted, it's not the 90+% it was years ago but definitely still in the majority."
Cool! It's going down! The future is gonna be sectacular!
Posted by Charles B on June 29, 2007 05:32 PM"In 2002, the Society for Assisted Reproductive Technology—the research arm for U.S. fertility doctors—decided to find out how many unused embryos had accumulated in the nation’s 430 fertility clinics. The rand consulting group, hired to do a head count, concluded that 400,000 frozen embryos existed—a staggering number, twice as large as previous estimates. Given that hundreds of thousands of ivf treatment rounds have since been performed, it seems fair to estimate that by now the number of embryos in limbo in the United States alone is closer to half a million."
My hope is that Brian Stuckey and KW will adopt them.
Posted by Truth on June 29, 2007 08:39 PMHalf a million embryos destroyed, eventually, and the Christian right is not all over this. Why?
Posted by Sharon B. on June 29, 2007 09:03 PM"On the contrary, the President is vigorously opposed—as are most Americans who cherish the sanctity of life.."
Wow...talk about some selective interpretation and blatant rhetoric. .
This guy should be working for The 700 Club or the Roman Catholic Church instead of the Rocky Mountain News (which we all know he is).
FYI, Stuckey...every poll and study has consistently shown that MOST Americans
support embryonic stem cell research.
And a recent poll showed that MOST of the people who are MOST affected by this issue...the people who have embryos stored but are not going to or cannot use them...would rather donate them for research than simply throw them away.
He was probably going to try to slide this under our noses by suggesting that most Americas support Bush on this issue, which we all know is not true.
So he tagged on the "who cherish the sanctity of life" rhetoric to try to make his statement have some basis in reality.
And in your own words most of your "sanctity of life" buddies (are these the same "sancity of marriage" folks...because I know you love to speak on their behalf, too) support the president...but apparently not all or you would have used the word all.
So apparently even you, Stuckey, do have at least one little pinky toe in the realm of reality where the rest of "life-haters" live.
I am so sick of moronic statements from self-righteous blowhards implying that other people are gainst things just because they aren't "for" their position.
Get this through your freaking heads once and for all...No one is pro-abortion. No one is anti-family. And no one is anti-life.
But, let's play tit for tat... alot of people like you, Stuckey, are apparently ANTI-CHOICE and ANTI-DEMOCRACY..anti-self determination.
You don't believe in allowing people to make decisions that are right for them and have absolutely nothing to do with you.
You're a control freak, Stuckey. You've got your nose stuck in everyone else's business and it's not enough for you to spend your worthless sending page after page of your self-centered drivel to the RMN...you want the government to step in and dictate all the things you believe for everyone else.
Go to Iran, Stuckey. They already have the kind of dictatorship you obviously want to live under.
Posted by Thomas on June 30, 2007 07:12 AMAnd there's always Canada for the likes of Thomas, Charles B, Larry and just sayin'. They have all the socialistic policies you covet and will welcome you with open arms.
I just can't figure out why do you hate the USA so much? If you didn't, you wouldn't be trying to change it so drastically
Posted by KW on June 30, 2007 09:26 AMKW,
I don't suppose it would ever occur to you that wanting change - even what you think is "drastic change" - could be evidence of a true love and appreciation for the USA. Could it?
Not all Americans necessarily have their heads firmly fixed on backwards, while having to go forwards with the progress of time, and the rest of the world.
If nothing else, the launching of Sputnik should have taught that simple reality. But, of course, those who don't want to learn, won't.
Posted by Old Grouch on June 30, 2007 09:49 AMOG - Are you married? Did you marry your wife because you "truly love and appreciate" her or did you marry in hopes of changing her to your own image of a perfect wife?
If you feel such a drastic need for change then maybe you shouldn't have married in the first place.
Posted by KW on June 30, 2007 10:27 AMSo , KW, how should we dispose of the eggs?
Posted by Sharon B. on June 30, 2007 11:33 AMSharon B - Maybe we shouldn't have artificially developed them in the first place.
Creating a problem to reinforce a position isn't good policy no matter how you spin it.
Posted by KW on June 30, 2007 11:59 AMGo away, Brian.
Posted by shaupeen on June 30, 2007 12:24 PMKW,
Your analogy is faulty in basic premises.
To begin with, the changes that occur in marriage affect, basically, only those who are involved with the marriage itself, i.e. the husband, wife, and immediate family. The changes that occur in the larger socio-economic and political realm of a Nation affect not only its own citizens, but those of the rest of the world as well. The microcosm is NOT, in this case, a sufficiently accurate reflection of the macrocosm to be used as the format from which to determine the validity of action in the larger entity.
Secondly, marriage is a voluntary association. Citizenship by birth is not. Thus the two entities stand as "apples and oranges" for purposes of comparison. Both are "associations" - as apples and oranges are both "fruit" - But, that is the limit of their shared characteristics.
Thirdly, the presumptive conclusion, i.e., that desiring changes in either case - even drastic changes - should necessitate either non-association in the first place, or dissolution of the association because of the desire, merely begs the question. And itself is based on a false presumption, namely that there is some feeling present for a drastic need for change, when the original statement merely pointed out that, should such a feeling be expressed it is open to possible other interpretation than the one previously demanded.
Now, as to the matter of the last sentence in your posting to Sharon B: You are, once again, making a statement of presumption. It is a presumption that is not founded on fact - a non sequitur - since the current problem exists because of the prior development, not as something having been created to reinforce a position.
Whether or not we should, or shouldn't, have artificially developed the frozen embryos - or blastocysts - in the first place is an entirely different subject than their possible subsequent potentials, uses, or disposal.
Now, as I have pointed out elsewhere, when it is a matter of a superstition/prejudice/belief-system, I decline to even attempt a "debate". Indeed, such a system is a closed circuit, or "box", which precludes debate, since debate is exchange of ideas, and any form of belief-system is not open to exchange.
I may point out an alternative to that belief-system; and I have so done. Other than that, further time on the matter is wasted.
Posted by Old Grouch on June 30, 2007 12:50 PMOG - Then maybe your use of "love and appreciation" of your country wasn't the best choice of words.
You sound as if the USA is more akin to a ball and chain for you. Something you wish you didn't have. I would recommend to you and those who are so disatisfied with the way we operate here to think about starting a new relationship with someone else. Or somewhere else.
Posted by KW on June 30, 2007 01:39 PMBrian Stuckey draws his inspiration from the "Good Book" one of the most remarkable euphemisms ever coined and Brian Stuckey strikes again with everyone scratching their head: Stucky again: Grimes again: Spare me.
Brian Stuckey strikes again June 30 blaming the gay lobby for Merry Christmas and Easter omission from the Rocky’s front page. What is Christmas but a celebration by the Pagans in thanks for Winter Solstice when ol’ Sol, the Sun, returned and the Pope couldn’t wipe out the Pagans even by declaring them in league with the devil, ol’ Satan a creation of Jehovah, Allah, and Jesus coming from the “loins of David” and “fruit of the womb” from a 12 to 14 year-old Jewish virgin whom the pope claims is levitated into heaven to preserve her virginity in spite of her children: James, Josas, Simon and daughters, Mk.6:3, except in the Catholic Bible.
What is Easter but a day in which the “fruit of the womb” from the “loins of David” transmogrified into an anti-Semitic God destined for assisted suicide by mandating that Roman soldiers nail him to a cross that he never carries Mt.27, Mk.15, Lk.27 in which Simon the Cyrenian is forced to shoulder every step of the way. The much-maligned Jew by his fan club, all Jewish, contend he orders them in Luke 19:27 to kill all who “should not accept that he should reign over them,” in parable but true assassination. Friday evening, the Jew is nailed to the cross and about 36 hours later on Sunday morning, he like the Mormon Moroni, is resurrected and in Zombi fashion plans a holy genocide on his 2nd Coming to be achieved within a generation if not sooner.
Why would the Rocky want to illustrate on its front page such utter nonsense?
KW,
Ah! Yes! The good old McCarthyite rejoinder whenever there be the slightest suggestion of difference with those who feel themselves to be the only true Americans: Think, believe, and act OUR WAY, or get out..
Well boy, insofar as that goes, if I were to identify any "ball and chain", it would be the likes of that kind of regressive, reactionary, jingoism, which, unfortunately, seems to be the hallmark of those who think the world has to always suit them, and the clock run backwards to the point of their satisfaction with the "good old days".
But, that's NOT America.
So, I have no problem with either the present or the future here, nor any with that of this Nation's present or future either. America has survived the Whigs, Know Nothings, KKK, Joe Mc Carthy, Richard Nixon and his crew of crooks, even Ronnie Raygun and his "Trickle ON the lower classes" form of Voo Doo economics, and Newt Gingrich's Contract on Americans. It most certainly will survive Dubbya the Dumbell, and the current effluvium of pathetic regression as well.
The only constant is change. And even you can't really halt the forward progress of time and events. Though I do have to say that you're doing your best to try. But, that is your right. Just as it is mine to look forward, with my head on straight, in the direction of life; and welcome the future.
Posted by Old Grouch on June 30, 2007 03:00 PMOG - Nobody is trying to halt progress. I'm sorry to hear you see it that way.
What many of us are against is change to a different philosophy, or way of life that isn't necessarily better. Or for that matter, a repeat down a foolish path mankind has already walked and was suppose to learn from.
Posted by KW on June 30, 2007 03:19 PMKW:
"What many of us are against is change to a different philosophy, or way of life that isn't necessarily better. Or for that matter, a repeat down a foolish path mankind has already walked and was suppose to learn from."
If only that was the way you really felt.
Posted by Charles B on June 30, 2007 06:16 PMKW I will give you a plan for ending the war in Iraq when you tell me your plan for the eggs.
You show me yours first.
Posted by Sharon B. on July 1, 2007 06:46 AMI like the way you claim to know more about my thoughts or feeling than I do myself Charles.
That statement in itself speaks volumes about you.
Posted by KW on July 1, 2007 11:53 AMKW:
"I like the way you claim to know more about my thoughts or feeling than I do myself Charles."
The things you write are pretty revealing.
Posted by Charles B on July 1, 2007 10:27 PMKW your 11: 59 post. Substitute the words Iraq war for the problem with stem cells and you see what WE have been saying.
Better not to have caused the problem(Iraq, unneeded eggs) in the first place.
Oh goody I got you (happy little dance around the kitchen) on that one.
Posted by Sharon B. on July 1, 2007 11:00 PMCB - Try reading the actual words and stop daydreaming.
Posted by KW on July 2, 2007 09:52 AM