American flag
This letter is written in hopes that Mrs. Hammer of Wheat Ridge will read it, and reconsider her decision to fly the American flag upside down. (Woman fights for right to protest war 7/10/07) Mrs. Hammer, if you wish to protest the war in Iraq, please do so in a manor that does not disgrace a symbol that signifies the highest level of honor and commitment for those in the United States Armed Forces.
I find it hard to believe that you would disgrace the flag in this manor in front of a group of D-Day veterans or in the presence of Marines who fought so valiantly on Iwo Jima. I also feel it is safe to say that you would not visit any military instillation on a day when a unit of Soldiers or Marines are returning from Iraq, and display the flag in this manor in front of all who are present to welcome them home. My question to you is why do it now, in front of your house? Do you honestly think this decision will not have any emotional effect on those who have served and those who are still in harms way?
Believe it or not, the actions of U.S. citizens have an impact on those serving a long way from homes and their loved ones. Please do not assume that your freedom of speech automatically includes everything you desire.
To do so shows arrogance, and a total lack of regard for your fellow citizens and those in the Armed Forces. I respectfully ask that you pursue other means to protest the war, and return your flag to its proper position or take it down all together. Either way, please do not use a symbol that many of us hold dear to our hearts for your own political agenda.
This letter has not been edited.
An outstanding letter! Thank you for your excellent comments, Sgt. Showalter.
Posted by Brian Stuckey on July 15, 2007 03:08 PMThank you for your letter! I totally agree with you and Mrs. Hammer should be ashamed with herself for desecrating the symbol of America. We have sons and daughters fighting for our freedom and you have the audacity to display that symbol upside- down? Live somewhere else if you don't like the great USA.
Posted by Mary Sayler on July 15, 2007 03:52 PMWhile I would not be a person to advertise my protest the way Mrs. Hammer is doing it, I strongly disagree that she was showing "a total lack of regard for your fellow citizens and those in the Armed Forces." Her purpose and intent was to protest the war. That purpose and intent is not at all a disregard for her fellow citizens and those in the armed forces. In fact, whether or not she was in bad taste, her purpose and intent was just the opposite.
While flying the flag upside down may not be proper flag etiquette, it is in no way desecrating the flag as is the case when someone burns the flag or stomps on it.
Peaceful protests are often carried out in ways that those who disagree with the protesters find objectionable. It is the nature of protest. If Mrs. Hammer should continue to resist the effort to make her quit flying the flag upside down, those who will likely accuse her of a lack of patriotism are not that much different from those who have accused people who oppose Bush's policies of being unpatriotic. In fact, even if she is being uncouth or arrogant, I have to admire her perseverance. There are a lot of people who want to protest something or other who are quickly cowed into retreating by the various accusations hurled against them.
As a matter of information, I ran across this:
"Is it okay to display the flag upside down to protest the war?
The Flag Code (see below) states that the flag flying upside down is used as a sign of imminent danger. It is an unreasonable stretch to argue that the political purposes constitute "dire distress." We recommend that people who wish to express their political views find a way to do so that is respectful of the flag. Remember that to some the flag represents the government of the US and its policies; but it also represents the promise as yet unfulfilled of the Declaration, it represents our freedom of speech, our freedom to practice or not practice religion as we choose, it represents American values, it represents one nation in its glory, it represents hope for a better future, and importantly it represents the sacrifices made in all generations to protect our freedoms.
Section 8a. The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property."
To my mind, it is understandable that Mrs. Hammer thought that it was appropriate to fly the flag upside down to show the distress that most Americans have about Bush's policies. I have the feeling that many of those objecting are doing so more because they support Bush than anything else.
Posted by Truth on July 15, 2007 04:00 PMI believe that both Sgt. Showalter and Mrs. Hammer are expressing their respective personal opinions in regard to the flag display. Both have personal reasons for their positions and have stated them eloquently.. This is a case of agreeing to disagree with no personal insult meant toward either party.
Posted by darfor on July 15, 2007 04:16 PMSgt. Josh Showalter
Well said. Respectful behaviour cannot be expected from those among us this wrapped up in their own sanctimony.
Posted by James Jones on July 15, 2007 05:03 PM"I have the feeling that many of those objecting are doing so more because they support Bush than anything else."
Feeling your way to a conclusion, aka, Democratic logic.
Posted by on July 15, 2007 07:17 PMSanctimony: "pretended, affected, or hypocritical religious devotion, righteousness, etc."
You do you think is guilty of sanctimony, Mrs. Hammer or James Jones?
Posted by Truth on July 15, 2007 07:35 PMJames Jones said:
"Respectful behaviour cannot be expected from those among us this wrapped up in their own sanctimony."
I'm glad your sense of self-awareness is growing James.
Posted by Charles B on July 15, 2007 08:41 PMHey 7:17 (gutless-can't even leave a user name). You're right, they were feeling their way toward a conclusion. I would also bet lots of money that is was the correct one. Besides, I would take "feeling your way to a conclusion" (connecting the dots, if you will) over the typical neo-con "if you dislike Bush then you hate America" (which is a short cut from having to think-popular with you, Hannity, Limbaugh, etc) any day of the week.
Posted by BO on July 15, 2007 10:29 PMAgreed that the flag may be disgraced here, but it cant come close to the disgrace the current administration represents. And dont roll out the Clinton comparisons because they dont exist. Bush should be put out of office, now. Period. "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel"
Posted by gadfly on July 15, 2007 10:59 PMOK, I'll say it.
Her right to fly her flag upside-down is exactly what generations of soldiers have fought and died and won for. I wouldn't display my flag that way, and I understand others getting offended, but in this day of people torching buildings and shooting doctors to get their opinions across, I'll take a peaceful upside-down flag-flyer anyday.
Posted by shaupeen on July 16, 2007 12:29 AMJust so much right-wing nationalistic hype. Sgt Showalter, thank you for maintaining our Purity of Essence and protecting Mrs. Hammer's right to fly the flag any damn well she pleases.
Posted by B/Gen Jack D. Ripper on July 16, 2007 06:20 AMthis is a first amendment issue and thats final, and 2: our sons and daughters are not fighting for our freedoms... wherever yall get that idea is stupid and wrong, our solders are over there fighting a lost cause war for another countries freedoms, the only way our freedoms are affected ar by the current administration in office now, people like Bush/Channey and Kennedy and Pelosi , and lets not forget the democratic sides either.....
the lady has every right to fly her flag as she pleases, i might not like it but i will defend her right.
i feel it is a disgrace as well to fly the flag as she is and there is nothing i can do to stop her as it is her first amendment to do so
your local conservative atheist
Hoimaha C.
Posted by hoimaha on July 16, 2007 06:43 AMYes ,we have freedom of speech and it is a wonderful thing.I agree she has the right to protest the war in a way she feels right to her. She is not burning the flag she is making a quiet statement about her position on the war.
That's the beauty of our country our right to protest and free speech,though we may disagree.
Yes the war is going badly. Muslims extremists from all over the mideast have one thing to do ,kill Americans and others who will not become Muslim.Let her or Cindy Sheehan go over and protest against the people who are killing Americans.
Where is the outrage in this country that we are being held hostage and have to be ever vigilent so we won't be killed in mass numbers like 9/11?
When are Americans going to stop protesting America and start protesting Muslims. They have been killing people in large numbers all over the world for many ,many years. It had to come to a head somewhere,sometime.
Now people are calling for the U.S. to get involved in Darfur.If we did that we would be in another war against Muslim extremists.
They are everywhere.
I would like to see people stop protesting America as they hide behind our flag and start protesting the teachings of the Koran and their muslim extremists.
Posted by Can I get an AMEN! on July 16, 2007 08:25 AMamen, ............as a matter of fact lets destroy all fundamentalist that bring harm to this country ...
lets close the borders since there are extremist and terrorist crossing through the southern border as well , bring our troops home and rebuild Americas government from the ground up....than America can repair itself and start with our problems, not everyone else's issues,
your patriotic conservative atheist
Hoimaha C.
I would rather be wrapped in the Constitution and burning the American flag than be wrapped in the flag and burning the Constitution.
From the 9 News interview that I saw, Mrs. Hammer is not flying the flag upside down to "desecrate the symbol of our country." She is flying the flag upside down as a symbol of a country in great distress -- and as an exercise of her right to free speech and freedom of expression.
I recetnly retired from the US Air Force, and I have served tours in Kuwait, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Afghanistan and Iraq. I see nothing wrong with what Mrs. Hammer is doing.
Don't buy into the Bush administration's propoganda that "dissent is treason." If we close our eyes and minds to differing views, we stifle the free exchange of ideas that our nations was founded upon.
Best of luck, Sgt. Showalter. I hope that the future dividends of this war are worth our current investment of American lives and taxpayer dollars. And I hope it ends soon with a true victory for the US.
Sgt Josh joshes in his common sense (bias and prejudice) placing more value on his opinion than on Thomas Jefferson's opinion. An upside down flag is not the issue:
Why is a constitutional amendment on flag burning a bad idea? Thomas Jefferson provided the answer: “Enemies of this republic should be left undisturbed as a monument to that society where error of opinion may be tolerated, where the force of Reason is left free to combat it.”
And Mrs. Hammer is not an enemy of the republic whereas Josh with his nose up in the air may very well be for militating against Jefferson.
Posted by Richard Grimes, Deicide r22037@yahoo.com (ffrf.org and ask for copy of FreeThought Today) on July 16, 2007 09:53 AMhoimaha, I agree let's bring home our soldiers and close our borders and solve the problems we have here.The war is gotten out of hand and our soldiers are sitting ducks for crazy muslims.
That being said,they attacked us on our soil and did great harm and many people died and were affected by that single day.I would rather fight them somewhere besides here. They are everywhere and are hell bent on killing anyone not converting to Islam.
What should we do?We need to protect ourselves against radical Islam and they are taking away our ability to stop the invasion from the south and the illegals are taking full advantage of it.
Posted by Can I get an AMEN! on July 16, 2007 10:34 AMAmen....i see your point , and i know radical islamist attacked us on our own soil.... that was a terrorist move against American people of all races and religions and cultures (Taliban Forces) as they are scattered all across the world not just Iraq, Iran, Lybia, Pakistan. India, Philippines, but also in Canada, Europe, America, Mexico, South America, fi we are going to fight the extremist, we need to better our government in special ops and take them out as we see them and not wait til the last min and then send our troops in, we need to play by there standards not Geneva rules as we are the only country that plays by those rules , America needs to fight dirty like them , then we will get the job done and put the fear of America back into the world as we once did during the WW 1 & WW II
anyway i just needed to vent, have a good one sir
Posted by hoimaha on July 16, 2007 10:51 AMFirst of all I would like to thank everyone for expressing their thoughts on this matter. It is good to hear opinions from both sides. I did not write this letter as a means to support Bush, the war in Iraq, or any party for that matter. I did so in hopes that Mrs. would see a point of view that she may not have considered yet. Thank all of you for your comments, and please support our troops.
Posted by Josh on July 16, 2007 11:15 AMFirst of all I would like to thank everyone for expressing their thoughts on this matter. It is good to hear opinions from both sides. I did not write this letter as a means to support Bush, the war in Iraq, or any party for that matter. I did so in hopes that Mrs. would see a point of view that she may not have considered yet. Thank all of you for your comments, and please support our troops.
Posted by Josh on July 16, 2007 11:15 AMI agree with the right to free speech and political expression. After all, that's why I was in the military- I didn't have to agree with your opinion, but I would defend to the death to your right to say it.
What I DO have a problem with is the fact that Mr. and Mrs. Hammer moved into an HOA community, and agreed to abide by the covenant, which included a flag policy. If they didn't like it, they shouldn't have moved there. They agreed to the rules, and now they don't like some, so they feel they are the exception and don't have to follow them, and are using "free speech" as a way around it. Too bad the HOA backed down under the threat of lawyers. This is so typical of society today!
Posted by fiesty on July 16, 2007 11:15 AMhoimaha excellent point ,we need to fight dirty like them. The problem is we have so many Americans rooting for the Islamic extremists and not their own country.
They want them not to be interrogated when caught,they don't understand the Geneva Convention rules and think we should put them up in a 5 star hotel and they should have the same rights as Americans.The left also sees America as the problem. They are so stupid and senile that they seem to forget they muslim extremists have been killling people all over the world. Now we have the Hollywood elite that wants us out of Iraq and wants America to send the military into Darfur to fight ,who? Islamic extremists! We can't do anything without the far left wing blaming everything on Bush.
I guess the far left want us to pull out of Iraq and fight another war in Darfur.They also want open boarders,no wire tapping ,no holding enemy combatants,no interrogations,no homeland security,no right for citizens to have guns,but they have their own security that is armed.
If we pulled out of iraq and started fighting the extremists in Darfur then they would be complaining about people getting killed and the other extremist from around the world would go to Darfur and escalate the war there.
If we pull out out of Iraq and come home to secure our borders the left will complain about not letting poor people into this country to do the jobs the Americans won't do. They would also not want anyone deported even if they are murders,rapists,gang members etc...
We can't win. No matter what we do the left will start their whining . It seems to me all they care about is keeping our country in chaos.
Posted by Can I get an AMEN! on July 16, 2007 11:34 AMAmen --
It was the GOP and Republican president George W. Bush that were recently proposing amnesty for 25 million illegal immigrants.
Now, what does that have to do with Mrs. Hammer flying the flag upside down?
Oh, I get it -- you were just looking for one more opportunity to rail on "liberals" who want to "cut and run" and "surrender to the terrorists."
I think you've been listening to Rush Limbaugh for a little too long.
Here's a news flash for you: Those "liberals" who "hate America" don't exist. They are a strawman, created by neo-conservatives to defame and stifle their opposition.
Time to start thinking for yourself. Get help. Read a non-biased report once in awhile, and try to form your own opinions based on facts for once, instead of partisan hype.
Amen, who are these Americans who are rooting for the terrorists? Please back up this oft repeated neo-con remark
Most of your post is exaggerations, and even the most virulent Bush haters, like myself, try not to spew out that many unrelated, over hyped ideas in one post.
You say "keeping our country in chaos" Well, pipsqueak, just what party has been in power as we descended into this chaos of the last 6 , war weary years?
If Hillery had been president these last 6 years your venom would be nuclear.
"America" is not the problem or what we blame. We blame "American past presidents and the American CIA and American big business concerns."
Did you get that this time or are you still shilling for Hannity and his "why do you hate America" smarmy nonsense.
Posted by Sharon B. on July 16, 2007 12:31 PMit is a sad year for America, it makes me so angry that very few people are willing to take a stand against our liberties being taken away from us by the leftist extremist and the over conservative right wing , it seems that America has let the government take too much control seeing how our bill of rights and the constitution are being ripped to shreds by the government that is in power , taking away our liberties and freedoms bit by bit
the American people need to stand up and take control again , the bill of rights and the constitution
were created to keep to much power out of the hands of the government and protect the people not the other way around,
STAND UP AMERICA AND TAKE OUR COUNTRY BACK , CALL YOUR SENATE, CALL THE REPS, CALL THE GOVERNOR, THREATEN TO KICK THEM OUT OF POWER, WE AS THE PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO FILE SUIT AGAINST OUR GOVERNMENT IF WE SEE FIT THAT THEY ARE NOT SERVING US AS THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO !, THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO WORK FOR US SEEING AS HOW WE VOTE THEM INTO OFFICE !!!!!!!!!!
YOUR FRIENDLY ATHEIST
HOIMAHA C.
I get a great laugh every time I read James Jones talk about repectful behaviour, as if he knew what it was.
Posted by James Jones is a glow in the dark bitch on July 16, 2007 12:37 PMYes, so the soldiers are stationed around the globe fighting for our freedoms, while everyday here in the US our freedoms are further undermined, freedoms which include demonstrating the upside down logic of this administration and the nationalism its supporters thrive on...
Posted by Roy on July 16, 2007 01:43 PMPosted by fiesty on July 16, 2007 11:15 AM
It doesn't matter what the HOA's rules are if they are unconstitutional; The constitution over-rides the authority of the HOA. The point of the constitution is to protect basic rights of the people from various types of local and federal governments, including HOA's.
Posted by Roy on July 16, 2007 01:50 PMSharon B. I can name one person rooting for the terrorists. Her name is Cindy Sheehan. She called the terrorists that killed her son freedom fighters.After that she and her merry band ran around the country claiming George Bush a terrorist and the terrorists that were killing American soldiers freedom fighters.I guess you forgot about that.
Cindy Sheehan reminds me of Forrest Gump. The part in the movie where he runs all over the country for years and then a bunch of people follow him for no reason and all of a sudden he stops and says,I'm done running now.
There are plenty of people in America that think Cindy Sheehan is right. The terrorists that are killing Americans are freedom fighters.
Wake up!
Posted by Can I get an AMEN! on July 16, 2007 03:05 PMAs to the HOA rules,I agree with them. My husband and I chose a HOA community so people would be held accountable for keeping up their properties.It was a choice. We carefully read all the rules before we signed a contract on our house.The rules seemed reasonable to us.
People have a choice whether they want to live in a HOA community or not. Isn't this country great! If people don't like the HOA rules don't buy there then complain when they are enforced.
As for the flag,I think she should fly the flag the way she wants. I'm not sure the HOA has a rule on which way a flag should be hung.Anyway they backed of so what's the problem?
Posted by Can I get an AMEN! on July 16, 2007 03:13 PMPosted by Can I get an AMEN! on July 16, 2007 03:05 PM
--
So it seems a matter of definition? According to your statement, Cindy Sheehan is Against terrorists not for them, though she defines 'terrorists' differently than you do. According to some states' Dept. of Homeland Security offices a person who follows the constitution and is against government tyranny is a 'terrorist', though I disagree with their definition if i am forced to argue according to their definitions I would be forced into saying I support terrorism, when in reality i don't. With a term such as 'terrorism' it can be hard to have real discussions since the term's definition is subjective.
Roy, thank you for that. Cindy may call some people "freedom fighters" that still doesn`t mean she is "rooting for them".
Words are slippery things, not one person I know or know of, wants the fighters (insert your definition here) in Iraq to kill a single one of the coalition troops.
Imagine Hillary as president the last 6 years, still support the war?
Posted by Sharon B. on July 16, 2007 04:39 PMRoy
I heard an interview with a Washington D.C. attorney that stated that there is case law precedent in favor of the HOA in this type of case.
It most likely would have been a long legal battle and the HOA decided that it wasn't going to squander its' member dues money and choose to fight this long protracted battle over this issue. They need to choose their battles carefully.
While personally, I don't like to see somebody doing this with our flag, just like burning it, I don't believe that we should try and legislate against it. As others have stated, "I may not like what you say (or do), but I will fight to the death for your right to say it."
That is truly what makes this country great. Even if it offends some people, your right of free expression is an American value. There is no right to NOT be offended. That is OK with me.
Posted by RU Serious on July 16, 2007 05:42 PMAs far as the case law regarding HOA's it seems to vary between states, and as far as i know no case has made it to the supreme court. Though a case in New Jersey regarding political speech restrictions and HOA's, among other issues, found that HOA's are subject to constitutional (New Jersey) restrictions such as those imposed upon 'public sector actors'. (http://www.aclu-nj.org/downloads/TwinRiverDecision.pdf) While many judges have ruled in favor of HOA's in disputes, it seems to mostly be municipal judges that do so, and appeals to higher courts seem favorable to homeowners...
Posted by Roy on July 16, 2007 07:33 PMRoy-
1. What I read specifically stated that the HOA had a flag policy which paralleled the federal policy, which clearly states how the flag is hung, lighting, etc.
2. Your argument about "unconstitutional" doesn't apply if the person CHOSE to abide by that policy. Just like it's not "unconstitutional" when they tell you not to put signs (to include political, around election years) with stakes in the ground, since it can damage the sprinkler system. Or you agree to the rules about holiday decorations, "freedom of religion".
Bottom line- they signed a contract to honor the HOA covenent, and then at the first time they didn't like something they agreed to, threatened legal action to get out of it. I wish the HOA had the legal resources to fight it out in court.
Posted by fiesty on July 17, 2007 07:11 AMJosh Showalter, thank you for the letter and for your service to keep people like Hammer free to be disrespectful to our honorable flag.
I can't believe she would feel comfortable flying the flag in that manner in front of a group of returning servicemen and, along with you, I am amazed that she feels comfortable doing it in front of her house. My own Dad and many of the other vets of WW2 sacrificed much to honor that flag. Ms Hammer should watch "Flags of Our Fathers" to get another perspective on the flag she has flown upside down.
Posted by skeptical on July 17, 2007 08:54 PM