College education
I’m a well-educated student here in Denver: I work hard to get good grades because I want to go to college and be a future dentist here in Colorado.
Now, I feel like my dreams are getting crushed, because neither the DREAM Act has passed, nor an instate tuition bill.
I come from a hard working family, which earns enough to support us, but my family doesn’t earn enough for my college education because universities would charge me out of state tuition, because I’m not a legal resident. No disrespect, but that is by far the most stupidest policy I have ever seen! Why are legislators prohibiting students from an education? Why are people in power deciding my future? Why don’t you want me to be a dentist?! What benefits do you get? Just because I wasn’t born here shouldn’t mean I have to pay more. I have lived here in the U.S. ever since I was one year old. It’s not fair that you shut the doors in our faces. I’m a human being’ too. Education is a right, not a privilege.
I urge you to let students go to college with in-state tuition. No matter what, we ARE going to college. I am going to be a dentist, and I will fight, no matter how long it takes. Stop this NONSENSE. USE YOUR BRAIN and have COMMON SENSE. Put yourself in our position! You had the right to go to college. Why can’t we?! Pass the DREAM Act so that I can be a part of the U.S. Pass in-state tuition now, so we can have justice to go college.
This letter has not been edited.
So you want to be rewarded because you and your parents broke one and maybe more than one law. A child of legal residents that lives out of state has to pay out of state tuition. Why should they not receive a 'break'. That would be more deserving. If you want to take advantage of the rights of an american citizen then take the responsibility to do it the correct way. Do no blame society, blame your parents that have taught you it is ok to break the law.
Posted by Mickey on July 30, 2007 02:59 PMRuby - I am married to a foreign national. We are going through the process of getting her here legally. We still have at least four months to go before the INS service center even reads our papers. They are right now processing applications received in January.
Being without her is by far the hardest thing I have ever had to go through. We talk, email or chat online daily, but due to the time zones, it is difficult to communicate sometimes.
We are putting ourselves through this because we respect the laws of the US. Try it sometime, rather than complaining that you are not getting the free handouts.
Posted by Philip on July 30, 2007 03:09 PMWait, your parents broke the law, you were educated by the taxes paid by law abiding citizens and now you want to be rewarded. You and your entire family should return to your country of origin and get in line to come to the United States of America legally. I mean you are asking to be rewarded for blatenly breaking the law. Education is not a right. You have been educated well past what was right. Your education was stolen. The Dream Act should have never been proposed, let alone have a chance of being passed.
Posted by Myra on July 30, 2007 03:10 PMI truly do sympathize with your predicament, Rudy. You have set goals and worked hard to meet them. However, this is a classic case of the sins of the father visiting the son. If your father (and mother) had entered the country legally in the first place you would not be struggling as you are.
There are still options available to you in pursuit of your dream. I worked my way through a private university - harder to attend school while working; but, I did attend and earned both an undergraduate and graduate degree. There are some government programs that you can try for which allow for student loans while in school, and will be forgiven after graduating by working in selected demographic areas.
There's also the military. You can join and earn not only a GI Bill for future use in school, but also legal citizenship which will remove this obstacle of being an illegal alien once and for all from your path. And you don't necessarily have to join a combat force. You are obviously a smart young man with good grades. Look at the Air Force or Navy for a position in a high tech field. A four year commitment is a short time frame in relation to the rest of your life.
Your dreams are not crushed; they're just going to be a little harder to realize than some of your classmates who were born with a silver spoon in their mouth. Don't give up - America needs smart young motivated people like you.
Posted by carl on July 30, 2007 03:19 PMRuby said ” Education is a right”
Where on earth did you get that idea?
It might well be a good idea to help people in the state to become better educated, but I cannot imagine why you think you have a right to tertiary education.
Mickey said ” So you want to be rewarded because you and your parents broke one and maybe more than one law”
So you would punish somebody who was one year old at the time?
Like Ruby had a choice in the matter.
Phillip said ” We are putting ourselves through this because we respect the laws of the US. Try it sometime, rather than complaining that you are not getting the free handouts. “
Free handouts?
How is wanting to pay in-state tuition fees a demand for a handout?
Myra said ” … your parents broke the law, you were educated by the taxes paid by law abiding citizens and now you want to be rewarded”
Myra, how do you know the parents didn’t pay taxes, why would a one-year old be penalized for a crime committed by a parent, and how is paying in-state fees a “reward”?
Bango -
"How is wanting to pay in-state tuition fees a demand for a handout?{"
Simple...In-state tuition is for those students who are residents of Colorado. If I wished to attend school in NY, AK, or any other state, I would have to pay out of state tuition, because I am not a resident of that state.
By definition, an illegal alien is NOT a resident of the state, nor the country. Hence, demanding in-state tuition from a state they are not a resident of is demanding a free handout for the difference between out of state and in state tuition. Got it?
Posted by Philip on July 30, 2007 03:41 PMAll the DREAM act would do is push the carrot further down the street. You cannot get a job in the US “legally” if you are an illegal immigrant. To go to college and work towards a degree that you will never be able to use is cruel as well. It may not seem fair that you are paying for the illegal activities of your parents, but that is the way that the world works. Your parents made a choice long ago to put you in a position that would exclude you from college and future employment. There are plenty of children of citizens that would like to attend college, but they cannot because they don’t have the money. Or they work their way through college and take 8 – 10 years to earn a 4-year degree. Who knows, if all the money wasn’t spent on the K – 12 education for illegal immigrants, state colleges might be affordable or even free! While you lament what is taken away from you, you have never considered the impact that your family has had on society and what society has given you that you didn’t deserve. Part of the problem is that you declare education is a right and not a privilege. You demand and complain. Do you have any idea how many American citizens do not have a college degree? These citizens are from hard working families as well, but often, because of circumstances beyond their control, they were unable to attend college. The US treats K – 12 education as a right and treats college as a privilege. Maybe that should be changed, but it certainly won’t change when the taxpayers have to pay for all the illegal immigrants to be educated for free (and in Spanish!!)
Posted by idk on July 30, 2007 03:42 PMRuby, I hope that Tancrado is not reading this because he will call the INS on you and have you and your whole family deported.
Posted by Sean on July 30, 2007 03:46 PMIf you want a top-notch college education without the costs, go to the library and teach yourself, email professors and ask them for reading lists, etc. You wont be approved by the state, but you will be educated, which is as your mother said, the key to success...
Posted by Roy on July 30, 2007 03:51 PMRuby - I apologize and misread your name as Rudy (old age and fading eyesight!). However, what I said still holds true with the exception of gender. Don't let those posting here with just the negatives regarding illegal immigrants get you down. I'm as anti illegal immigrant as most of them. But, there are legitimate avenues for you to pursue which will remove that stain and obstacle from your path forever.
The question is; how bad do you want to follow your dream?
Posted by carl on July 30, 2007 03:54 PMPhilip, seems a bit heavy on the side of a pure technicality.
Assuming that Ruby has been resident in Colorado since the age of one it seems a bit perverse to claim that Ruby is from out of state.
If we want to get all technical on definitions, then let’s analyze what “resident” means.
We bend the “residency” rule for several neighboring states, so evidently we as a state aren’t all that committed to it anyway.
Education is a right, a natural right, attending a private or a state run institution of higher learning is not a right...'education' and 'college' or even 'school' are not even close to being the same things...
Posted by Roy on July 30, 2007 03:56 PM"I’m not a legal resident. No disrespect, but that is by far the most stupidest policy I have ever seen!"
Really?
Tell that to the American kid from Maryland who wants to attend CU. I bet he won't understand why he is being asked to pay your tuition. But then again, he's probably a lot smarter than you.
Posted by hank on July 30, 2007 04:38 PMHank -- There's no need to use personal put downs. I believe she has already realized that public sentiment is not in her favor. You made a valid point about the out state (Maryland) student -- let it go at that.
Posted by carl on July 30, 2007 04:44 PMgo back home to mexico and ask them for instate tuition. see if they give it to you .
after all you are a mexican national arent you ?
you whole family are SLIME bags who need a lesson in the law HARD
Posted by Fresh on July 30, 2007 04:46 PM"But then again, he's probably a lot smarter than you."
Way to land a low blow on a kid, hank. Then of course i wouldn't expect anything more lofty out of you.
Posted by drew on July 30, 2007 04:46 PMGood English and tactful reasoning, Fresh. Does it make you feel superior to call someone SLIME? It looks like you fit in the same category as "An American" with his penchant for labeling everyone a coward.
Posted by carl on July 30, 2007 04:53 PMRuby,
Good luck with your studies. Think of how much more you will appreciate your dentistry degree knowing that you had a harder path. Don't take the easy way out, and as carl asked, "how badly do you want it?"
You are owed nothing. You got stuck with a crappy deal, because your parents didn't respect you enough to follow the laws of the United States, and it is coming back to bite you right on the butt. That totally sucks. But you have the ability to change all that, by now doing what YOU need to do. Don't wait for a government program to pick you up. Go into a little bit of debt (if you are going to be a dentist you'll be in debt anyway), and realize that if you do indeed work hard, you will be able to pay back those loans, and know that you did this all by yourself, and the satisfaction from that will be tremendous.
Or you can be a salty tool that DEMANDS something be done. The RIGHTS that you so eloquently refer to in this letter are the rights of CITIZENS of the United States. Of which, through no fault of your own, you are not.
Posted by Dan2 on July 30, 2007 04:54 PMJoin the Army or Marines and have them pay for it you miserable, free-loading, illegal, sonofabitch. Here's an original American thought for you: "Earn it." How does that sound?
If you can't figure out how to play the game, then you don't deserve to take up any space on on any college campus anywhere in the USA. Go back from where you came, America can't use the likes of freeloading trash like you.
Posted by hank on July 30, 2007 04:57 PMwell Carl, that is my feeling on the matter. Illegals deserve NOTHING! like it or don't i could give a damn.
Posted by Fresh on July 30, 2007 05:32 PMFresh --
I agree that illegal immigrants deserve exactly zero, zip, etc. I just don't think personal insults add to the argument in any constructive manner. In fact, the reason I personally object to it with illegal immigrants is because it plays right into the hands of those who claim anybody against illegal immigration can be dismissed as a bigot. There are too many legitimate arguments against illegal immigration -- why add unnecessary ammunition to the opposition?
In this particular case, if Ruby really wants to follow her dream there are legal avenues for her to pursue. If she's willing to go that extra mile required because of her parent's decision to break the law, I'm all for it.
But, that's just my two cents worth.
Posted by carl on July 30, 2007 05:55 PMyou make a decent point carl, however, she should go back to wherever she came from ( probably mexico ) and become a dentist there ( god knows they could probably use a dentist )
it isnt the illegals fault for being here, but the illegal can rectify that mistake by going BACK to where they come from instead of asking for a hand out ( like a slime ball ) in my opinion.
Posted by Fresh on July 30, 2007 07:19 PMThe United States would clearly be better off if Ruby could get her education as a dentist. So would Ruby. But most of the posters are more interested in punishing than in the good of the country.
It's a shame though that we have sewer rats like Hank and Fresh as citizens and yet we resist making citizens of people like Ruby.
There are still a lot of people whose minds can't grasp the fact that we don't educate people solely for their benefit. It is very important to the quality of America that the people living here be educated. In my opinion, a nation that wants to be great has an obligation to itself and its people to educate as many of the people who live here as possible. We complain that the illegals don't assimilate well, and then we deny them the opportunity to assimilate and to become particularly productive citizens and a big credit to our country.
If this were a cartoon, most of posters here would show up as people without noses, people who are so much into being against various individuals that they would cut off their nose to spit their face.
Yes, it costs money to help people like Ruby to get a college education, though not nearly as much as it costs to house people in prisons for many years. If you don't realize that the big majority of the multimillions in our prisons are poorly educated, that is because you yourself are poorly educated.
"Education is a right, not a privilege. "
Well, you've certainly got the obnoxious sense of entitlement of a college brat.
Good luck to you on your quest to force others to pay for your tuition. Maybe, after you've become an experienced dentist, you'll provide us with free dental care. After all, clean teeth are a right, not a privilege.
Posted by John II on July 30, 2007 09:05 PMTruth. Pony up big boy. Dig deep and send the girl the money to pay for college. If you think it's for the good of the country, here's you chance to be a good citizen without forcing all of us sewer rats to help you feel good about yourself. And while you're at it, you might want to organize a lib-o-rama fund for all those poorly educated prison chaps. Let us know how that works out, OK?
Posted by Guess who on July 30, 2007 09:54 PMTruth is already raking in Social Security money from the rest of us for his retirement. Now, he wants us to pay someone else's college tuition in addition to everyone's health care. What's next, Truth? Reliable transportation for everyone? Oh man, forget I said that.
Posted by John II on July 30, 2007 10:13 PMJohn II --
Thanks a lot! All we need is for Truth to have another way to advocate spending our money for us.
Posted by on July 30, 2007 10:17 PMFree reliable transportation......Ahhh. Truth no need to worry this one is already covered.
Well RTD has a service where you can apply for and receive door to door transportation for 3 dollars each way if you are disabled. If you take the door to door service you have to qualify. When you do you have to make your reservations in advance by at least a day, but not more thatn three days, and then you share a ride to your destination. If you can take a bus the special pass you get will also give you free bus fare. Just dont't let them "improve" this service. I often have to call three times to get my schedule straightened out because the people making the schedule think a driver can get from 120th avenue to Evans and Hampden in twenty minutes at 7 AM. For my old job I had to be to work by 8 AM and I often told them 6
6:30 just so I wouldn't be late. In the two years I took a regular bus I was late twice for a total of six minutes. Under this system I was late twice also, once I got there at 9:30 (still trying for 6:30) and once at 8:45.
Really Truth, don't worry. This is already under control.
Now, let's see if our prosepctive college student feels like working for an education.
Ruby, get a summer job and then arrange for work-study and/or a part time job. Apply for loans and any scholarships you qualify for. Lots of people have to pay out of state tuition for the same reason you do: you and they are NOT legal residents of Colorado. Now if an education is really important to you go and get one. If not, please look in the mirror for someone you can ask the "why" question.
Posted by momma y on July 31, 2007 01:35 AMTom Tancredo for President!
Pass the Dream Act..ONLY.. for the AMERICAN CITIZEN!
I read Ms. Garcia’s letter with interest.
From her letter the following may be surmised: That Garcia and one or both of her parents are in the US illegally and have been for some time. During this time, she and her parents have been able to take advantage of everything that the United States has to offer, public education, health care, employment, etc. All while avoiding law enforcement and/or immigration authorities.
However, this has not been enough. Now, Ms. Garcia believes that the people of the United States owe her to opportunity to not only attend an American college or university, but to be able to do it for in-state tuition rates.
Ms. Garcia appears to want not simply what American citizens have an opportunity to receive, but what citizens can’t receive. To wit, access to in-state tuition rates without being a legal resident of a state, or the country.
It’s extremely presumptuous of Garcia and her ilk to think that they should receive any benefits of being an American when they are aren’t even supposed to be in the country.
Further, Garcia should be reminded that many Americans can’t afford to attend college, let alone dental school.
Finally, Ms. Garcia suggests that those of us that oppose the DREAM act and similar legislation “USE YOUR BRAIN” and “COMMON SENSE”. We have done just that; only to find her arguments lacking.
Truth:
Here you go again! You twist concepts with subtle wording and omissions that are so transparent.
"The United States would clearly be better off if Ruby could get her education as a dentist“
Clearly?? Better off as opposed to what? Wouldn,t the U.S CLEARLY be even better off if she paid her own way or if she was a legal resident?
“It's a shame though that we have sewer rats like Hank and Fresh as citizens and yet we resist making citizens of people like Ruby.” How do you know Ruby isn’t a sewer rat? She claims to be well educated, but her diction and grammar indicates is only partially literate.
“There are still a lot of people whose minds can't grasp the fact that we don't educate people solely for their benefit.” Like Ruby
“ It is very important to the quality of America that the people living here be educated. In my opinion, a nation that wants to be great has an obligation to itself and its people to educate as many of the people who live here as possible.”
I love the use of “living here” and “live here” rather than Citizens.
We complain that the illegals don't assimilate well, and then we deny them the opportunity to assimilate and to become particularly productive citizens and a big credit to our country. “we”???/ How many have become “particularly”productive, or a “big “ credit? I, for one, admit that I would rather take the relatively low risk of losing Ruby’s potential work on my teeth than the known risk that hundreds of illegals will join street gangs or burglarize my house.
“If this were a cartoon, most of posters here would show up as people without noses, people who are so much into being against various individuals that they would cut off their nose to spit their face.” This just doesn’t make sense to the postings. Did you think it sounded cleverer than the sewer rats analogy?
“Yes, it costs money to help people like Ruby to get a college education, though not nearly as much as it costs to house people in prisons for many years.” So the implication is:_if we do not subsidize illegals’ college education they will become criminals? That does not speak very highly of them does it? Truth, your subtle prejudice is showing.
And Finally:“If you don't realize that the big majority of the multimillions in our prisons are poorly educated, that is because you yourself are poorly educated”. How do you make this paradigm leap of logic?
AF
Ruby what makes you think that you can get a Dental License after completing Dental School?
I don't think you can get one if your here illegally.Why are you blaming American citizens and their laws for your family's disregard for our laws?We owe you nothing.
Are you going to get a fake dental license to practice?
Posted by Can I get an AMEN! on July 31, 2007 08:52 AMActually, truth, I had to spend 4 years in the army to get my bachelors degree, so I am an educated person. and lastly, I HAVE NO INTEREST IN PROVIDING ILLEGALS ANYTHING! got it? once we take care of our own citizens then MAYBE i will entertain the idea of helping law breakers! ( but probably not)
go home ruby and get your education on you own countries dime not mine.
Posted by Fresh on July 31, 2007 09:32 AMEver heard of Puerto Penasco? Americans go there to get quality, cheap dental care. Some of us call it Colorado South because we see so many Colorado folks there.
That aside she can always marry an American citizen and get legal that way. Just another way your tax dollars help that old institution of marriage keep chugging along.
Posted by Sharon B. on July 31, 2007 10:10 AMMs. AMEN beat me to it. In order to get licensed as any U.S. medical provider you must have a birth certificate. If it's foreign, you need all proper immigration paperwork. Without this, you cannot get into medical school, get licensed, get credentialed with payors, etc.
Ruby, you'd better do some research before you try to pursue your "dream." All that might happen is you will alert the authorities to you and your family's presence.
Posted by CWW on July 31, 2007 10:43 AMOne of the problems that Mexican illegals bring from their real home is a centuries-old culture of utter corruption and bribery. Want a government bennie in Mexico? Pay up. Want to commit crimes and go free? Pay up. We shouldn't wonder that Mexican illegals don't get it about obeying the law. We also shouldn't wonder that their whitebread proxies here at home would encourage young Ruby's snotty college-kid sense of entitlement.
Posted by Jimminy on July 31, 2007 10:55 AM"We owe you nothing.
Are you going to get a fake dental license to practice?
Posted by Can I get an AMEN! on July 31, 2007 08:52 AM"
We owe all human beings something. It's called being civilized.
Ruby would do well to consult with someone that has more expertise than the posters here about how she might be able to become qualified to practice dentistry here. For example, there is something called the TN Visa that might be available.
As for asking Ruby if she will get a fake license, apparently Amen enjoys the feeling of treating high school girls shabbily. Does that make you feel superior, Amen?
Great, some posters have once again exercised their constitutional right to belittle a high school girl who is concerned about her future. Congratulations. Maybe you'll have a chance to unload on elementary school children later. What a bunch of sick, uncivilized people some of the posters are.
Posted by Truth on July 31, 2007 11:05 AMmaybe we are just sick to death of freeloading illegals truth!
the very highschool education they are getting is complete crap!
they should go back home. ALL OF THEM!
Posted by Fresh on July 31, 2007 11:13 AMMy objection to Ruby is asking people to use their common sense when in fact everyone is using their bias and prejudice in response to every question and issue that comes down the pike.
Deicide Corner: Religion stops a thinking mind so forsake religion so you can continue thinking for yourself unless, of course, you have created the dogma.
Posted by Richard Grimes r22037@yahoo.com, Deicide ffrf.org. Web: http://www.geocities.com/r22037/think.html on July 31, 2007 11:20 AMI agree that taking a great deal of this agression on a high school student is not very productive. Bet let's remember that this is an illegal immigrant that feels comfortable enough to put her situation out there and demand more assistance for her college education. She feels comfortable demanding more because our society has provided so much and there is no more fear about breaking the law. It is the sense of entitlement that is so frustrating to the middle class that has struggled for so long and continues to see their tax $$ going to programs/benefits for people who have no legal right to be in this country. I'm tired of seeing the parents drop their kids off at the public schools for their free breakfast in their Lexus. When you have 5 or 6 families in a home, you can afford the luxuries I guess but you can't afford food?? I'm tired of my kids falling behind in class because the teachers have to spend so much time with the children that cannot speak English. I'm tired of waiting in the hall for hours for a teacher conference because the parents don't speak English.
As far as being civilized, if the US opened its borders wide and let everybody in, we would no longer be civilized. Civilization requires laws and enforcement. The border enforcement needs te addressed. Illegal immigrants should have no rights in our society. If there were no benefit to coming to this country illegally, nobody would come.
Posted by idk on July 31, 2007 11:31 AMCmon, 2 of these posts from school age kids demanding secondary education. Saying basically the very same thing in both posts. This is a damn front and using kids to try and get their views across. They used kids in the hopes that people would not confront them in a negative manner. Or is this a cool project for school? Either way, it does not seem to be above board here.
Posted by bwr on July 31, 2007 12:04 PMTruth, The truth is we owe illegals nothing except a K-12 education and even giving them that has brought our schools into a dumbing down of America.
Civilized to me means following the laws and having RESPECT for the law. Respect for this country and it's citizens is not begging for more entitlements to which we do not owe them.
Since you feel you are so high and mighty and see nothing wrong with your tax money and the future debt your children and grandchildren will endure if we start handing out more freebies to people here illegally,then I suggest you start paying for Ruby,Paola and all their siblings college education.
It's the least you can do since your so civilized and the rest of us who disagree are not.
So get off your high horse, Your nose is so far up in the air if it rains you will drown.
Get out your checkbook.
bwr: Astute observation! I was wondering if maybe there wasn't a little organized agenda behind two young daughters of illegal immigrants crying out for compassion. I think I'll scoot over to the Denver Post (shudder) and see if there's and letters posted along the same vain.
By the way, Ruby and Paola, while we have compassion, that compassion is reserved first for the displaced working class LEGAL residents who have been devastated by the cheap illegal workers in this country. Any remaining compassion will then be directed your way.
There have been some constructive posts offered to both letters. None offered a free or continuing hand out like you request; but, there are ways to overcome your predicaments and allow you to pursue your dreams.
Posted by Trinity on July 31, 2007 12:17 PMtruth and Trinity should get out their checkbook!
Posted by on July 31, 2007 12:27 PMAnon 12:27 PM --
Why my check book? I'm telling them they have to earn it as explained in some of the above posts. Join the military, work your through school; but NO handouts or special allowances for children of illegal aliens. They've already received enough freebies from our society.
There's nothing wrong with having sympathy or compassion for someone who wants to get ahead. But since their families decided to take short cuts and break the law, these girls have a rougher road to fulfilling their dreams. How bad do they want it; and are they willing to earn it? There's no free lunch.
Posted by Trinity on July 31, 2007 12:56 PMRudy, don't some of these harsh posts get you down.
I think it's great that you want a better life for yourself but really, don't you think it would be best to go about it the right way?. The legal way, although not necessarily the easier way?
My parents spend winters in Arizona and go to Mexico for prescription medications, eye glasses, and dental care. They say it is much less expensive than in the US and is quality care.
I would check into going to college in your home country which I presume is Mexico, but it really doesn't matter. It would probably be more affordable for you and if your family did come from Mexico, you would get lots of business from across the border.
Dad said they will soon be requiring American's to show passports to get into Mexico to visit and I think that is only fair. Does anyone know what Mexico requires of foreigners who want to move there to live? I'm just curious as to what they require.
Posted by TEW on July 31, 2007 01:02 PMNo free lunch? There is at Guantanamo.And there's plenty of room.
Posted by Jimminy on July 31, 2007 01:04 PMAmen posts:
"Truth, The truth is we owe illegals nothing except a K-12 education and even giving them that has brought our schools into a dumbing down of America."
First, you say we owe them nothing. Then, you say K-12. My O My, you are getting civilized after all.
Strange "thinking" on your part. You think giving people like Ruby a K-12 ecucation dumbs down America more than if we didn't.
"Civilized to me means following the laws and having RESPECT for the law. Respect for this country and it's citizens is not begging for more entitlements to which we do not owe them."
It's just like you to concentrate on whether the other person is acting civilized rather than whether you are.
"Since you feel you are so high and mighty and see ,then I suggest you start paying for Ruby,Paola and all their siblings college education."
Haven't yet learned to read, Amen? I said not a word about seeing "nothing wrong with your tax money and the future debt your children and grandchildren will endure if we start handing out more freebies to people here illegally". My post was about the distaste way you and others attacked this high school girl.
You've got this knack for making up things. It's called dishonesty.
"So get off your high horse, Your nose is so far up in the air if it rains you will drown."
So you think a person has to be on his high horse to think that high school girls should be treated differently than smart-ass remarks such as your "is it paola as in pay-ola?" which you used to chastise a high school sophomore in a related thread. You need to mount a little higher horse, one that doesn't get its kicks from belittling high school girls.
Posted by Truth on July 31, 2007 01:09 PMHere we go again.
Truth you did suggest that this nation should pay for the education of illegals. You then got caught up in it and then recanted at the same time calling Amen dishonest. What a load of crap that is.
You just keep twisting your views into something so whacked out, not even you can keep it straight.
So what is it. We pay for Illegals education or not?
And an apology to Amen is needed from you.
ruby go back to mexico and see what they tell you about your rights in the US.
here is a dream act for you to dream for.....become a citizen the legal way and then use in state tution rates.
I think we should have illigal rates of 500 times that of anyone else.
if you ever do become legal you will make a great dumocrat in wanting everything free for you and your family.
Truth , How do you think we should be civil and hand out free everything to 12 million illegals and their flock of children and their 14 and 15 year old children's children.
What's the game plan?
If you give one illegal a pass to a free in-state tuition rate,you have to give them all a free pass.It won't stop there. Then they will demand free housing for college. Then free books. Then free meals. Then they would want the tax payers to pay any debt incurred during college because usually most college students pay part if not all of their college costs.
They will still be illegal so we should pay for them to be lawyers,Dr.'s,Dentists,Financial advisors,Teachers,congressmen,senators,Mayors,Council Members,Bank managers etc...
All while they are still in this country illegally,using fake I.D.'s,fake SSN#,not paying taxes,driving without a legal license,no insurance and breeding like rabbits and the whole cycle begins again.
How would you like an illegal immigrant handling your money for retirement? The laws of the U.S. doesn't apply to them because they are illegal. They can take your money and walk across the border and live happily ever after.
Wake up and stop coming up with every excuse you can think of to defend illegals and start coming up with solutions to defend your country.
If they are continued to be denied benefits that they are not entitled to,they will stop coming and stop demanding.
I know you have heard this a million times,but I will say it again maybe someday it will sink into your thick skull.
ILLEGAL MEANS ILLEGAL? WHAT PART OF ILLEGAL DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?
My distaste as you call it is for illegals who are demanding,demanding,demanding at an earlier age.We owe them NOTHING!
Let them get off their gravy train and work for a college education,without the discount.Plenty of Americans have done it.My cousin went to CU inthe 80's from the east coast and paid full tuition and worked her way through college.
I'm supposed to feel sorry for Ruby and Paola because they are illegals and are demanding that my taxes pay their college tuition?
I'd rather watch my dog puke.
bwr, I said:
"I said not a word about seeing "nothing wrong with your tax money and the future debt your children and grandchildren will endure if we start handing out more freebies to people here illegally".
In other words, I was not addressing that issue one way or the other. As I stated, "My post was about the distasteful way you and others attacked this high school girl."
As I indicated early on in this thread, I think the United States would be better off if Ruby could practice as a dentist rather than, for example, work at a MacDonalds. I would like to see some program developed which would enable her to do that. Yes, she would have to work hard to come under any such program and she would have to be successful in her studies and should incur a financial obligation which she would need to repay. But if she is going to be living here in the United States, the more productively she lives here, the better for the United States.
In case you are too dense to see that on your own, bwr, statements like "handing out more freebies to people here illegally" are too vague to be meaningful.
They are not intended to be intelligent.
It is always the politically correct thing to say that it is better for the country for all citizens to be educated/more productive. Then who will do all the menial jobs? Who will clean the hotel rooms/pick the veggies/cut our meat? That is always the arguement I hear from politicians about the illegal immigrants. Then we are supposed to educate them so that they can provide more of a service to this country....who will pick my strawberries? That is where the arguement loses steam. We don't need any immigrants to fill the positions of dentist/lawyer/business owner. There are plenty of American citizens interested in that! It is the "{jobs that Americans won't do" that is shoved down taxpayers' throats as to why we can't deport all the illegals and why we need them. So which is it? Do we need the low cost labor or do we want them to better themselves? You can't have it both ways!
Before you pro-illegal posters get your panties in a bunch, I'm not saying that immigrants (legal or illegal) should be destined generation after generation to work at back-breaking jobs for substandard pay. But that is what our government is telling us. Provide us with a system that allows legal immigration in a fair and speedy manner. Enforce the immigration laws and stop providing service to illegals. If we truly have a need for low cost labor, do it the way that the farmers did it 75 years ago: Get together with other farmers, petition the goverment for the number of workers that you need and the time that you need them and provide transportation and housing for those workers. (not their families). Then when the work is done, the workers go back to their home countries with more money than they could have made in a year and they can help support their family and their country. What the heck is so hard about that????
Posted by idk on July 31, 2007 02:33 PMidk: A somewhat convoluted argument, but points well made. Remove the cheap illegal immigrant work force, enforce the borders, fix an antiquated and broken immigration system and set up a LEGITIMATE guest worker program. Now if if we could just get congress to see how simple it boils down to being.
However, I don't think the special interest groups are going to allow the politicians enough leash to actually address the problem. There's no profit in it.
Posted by Trinity on July 31, 2007 03:12 PMMs.Amen said ” If you give one illegal a pass to a free in-state tuition rate,you have to give them all a free pass.It won't stop there. Then they will demand free housing for college. Then free books. Then free meals. Then they would want the tax payers to pay any debt incurred during college because usually most college students pay part if not all of their college costs.”
Funny, Ruby seems only to be asking that her years of actual physical residency in Colorado be recognized and that she be given some way to move forward, so assuming that her parent(s) works and the employer deducts taxes, denying her residency price for college seems a bit vindictive. If taxes are not being deducted by the employer then that is a whole different issue and IRS should be swinging the book at the employer.
” I'm supposed to feel sorry for Ruby and Paola because they are illegals and are demanding that my taxes pay their college tuition?”
No, you are supposed to feel sorry for Ruby because she had no choice in being an illegal resident, and recognize that if the employer isn’t deducting and paying over taxes, that is not her fault. At the other end Congress needs to get off its collective duff and figure out what to do with people like Ruby who have personally done everything right and are trapped in a no-win situation.
”I'd rather watch my dog puke.”
Whatever gives you a thrill babe.
IDK said ”… Then we are supposed to educate them so that they can provide more of a service to this country....who will pick my strawberries?”
Wonderful, so you would argue that slavery is a good idea because it would put strawberries on your table.
The right answer matey is that if a decent wage isn’t payable for that work and it cannot be automated, then you can pick them yourself or bloody well go without.
Ruby is an illegal alien. She can take advantage of her free K-12 education that according to law must be provided without question of legal status.
My suggestion to her is study hard graduate and migrate back to your country of origin and get in line or ask your government and tax payers of your country to pay for your college education there.
Don't they need Dentist's in Mexico?
Amen, I am sure you are quite a nice person, but you seem to be overlooking that Ruby came here as a 1yr old and has been living here ever since.
If we believe this, then we should accept that to her this is home and she knows no other. It’s not as if she can “go home” to some other place, even though they might speak a language she understands – assuming she picked Spanish up from her parents. It would be a foreign country to her with a foreign education system, foreign laws, and she would be a foreigner with a funny accent and no background there.
Bango, once again you completely missed the point..."and who will pick my strawberries?" was meant to mock the government's arguement for illegal immigration. My point is just that, illegal immigration fails both sides. The taxpayers are tired of paying out for people who have broken the law and the immigrants themselves put themselves in harms way by having to live in the shadows. I am very angry that illegal immigrants are "demanding" rights that aren't theirs, I am angry that my money is going to support them and their children. But no, I do not condone slavery of any kind. Isn't that what the government says, that the immigrants do the jobs that citizens will do? Well then if that is their arguement they cannot argue in the next breath that we should provide a means for higher education.
As far as the arguement that these children should not be made to suffer for their parents' choices....welcome to the world! I lived under the choices that my parents made and my children live under the choices that I made. If I commit a crime, my children will pay for it....as well as benefit from my positive choices. These parents brought their children across the border illegally hoping for amnesty (because the US had given it before, why shouldn't they do it again?) Once these parents realized that their children would be held back by their choices, they should have gone home or worked within the legal system to rectify their situation. No, they choose to march in the streets and demand their "rights." That is the point...they have no rights.
Posted by idk on July 31, 2007 06:11 PMBango Skank: I agree that America is Ruby's only known home and that it would be very difficult for her to move to a country or culture that she, at the best, only has passing knowledge of. However, that does not erase the fact that she is an illegal immigrant. Her parents made a conscious decision to break the law, perhaps in the hope that it would give her (along with the rest of the family) a better life.
Ruby and her family most likely have had a better life being here in America. She's being educated and has worked hard and developed goals and dreams for a brilliant future. But, her basis for building those dreams is that of being illegal. This is a case of the sins of the parents falling to the daughter. There's no Harry Potter magic wand that can be waved and erase that fact of life.
However, there are ways for her to legally overcome the obstacle of being an illegal. She's obviously a very intelligent and hard working young gal. For example, after graduating (hopefully with honors!) high school she can join the US Military. With a strong academic record she can land a high tech assignment in a non-combative role. After a four year commitment she will have a GI Bill to pay for her education; and, more importantly, she'll have eligibility to become a US citizen, forever removing the handicap of being classified as an illegal.
She may have to take a step above and beyond a legal resident, but that is due strictly to the actions of her parents -- not America. If she wants her dream bad enough those four years will be a minor inconvenience in attaining them.
Posted by Trinity on July 31, 2007 06:13 PMSo, idk likes the idea of having illegal immigrants here and of keeping them in the shadows so he'll have some to pick his strawberries. For us, the American dream. For them, the American nightmare. You use the exact reasoning of the slave owners and of the people who so bitterly and violently opposed recognizing blacks as human beings. Keep people from having opportunities for improving their lives so they can pick your strawberries. Somewhere along the line, idk, you completely missed what America is all about. You thought it was all about you. But you are not alone. Just about all of the third world countries have the same attitude.
Posted by Truth on July 31, 2007 07:11 PMTruth - See idk's explanation to Bango at 6:11 PM re his comments about the strawberries. He had tongue in cheek "mocking" the government's position of needing the illegals for work that Americans won't do.
Posted by on July 31, 2007 07:35 PMTruth, can you not read????? That is the arguement that the government uses for refusing to address illegal immigration...."immigrants will do the jobs that Americans will not." Which allows them to labor in the shadows for sub-standard wages which brings down wages everywhere. I have not missed what American is about...I'm married to an immigrant...a legal immigrant. His family was sponsored into this country and had to assure the US that they would receive no welfare, no benefits and no handouts. They followed all the rules and have been successful. And guess what...they worked in the fields, the restaurants and were poor. But because they followed the rules, they were able to work themselves up and not be taken advantage of by business owners. Illegal immigration needs to be addressed, but not by illegal immigrants demanding things that they are not entitled to. And no, humanity does not entitle them to citizenship to a country that they illegally entered. It does not entitle them to "resident" tuition since they are not residents. And if the government arguement is that illegals will do the jobs that Americans will not do, then if we send them to college, who will pick my strawberries (this is sarcasm...look it up!)
Posted by idk on July 31, 2007 07:43 PMidk 2:33, Good point ..but do you really think they will go back..volunarily? Once , they're here..it's..'Catch me if you can" and 12-20 mil? You're right they'have no rights.
It's too bad the children have to pay for the sins of the parents....now the kids have the same mentality as the parents..the arrogance.
And Truth, comparing the slaves to the illegal immigrants is full of holes. The slaves were brought here, ripped from their own families. They were taken from their homes and sold halfway around the world. They were treated like property. Illegal immigrants WILLINGLY cross the border into this country knowing full well what they are facing. No human being deserves to be in slavery, but to compare illegals illegal immigrants is uneducated and thoughtless.
Posted by idk on July 31, 2007 07:48 PMDemand, yes, I think the workers would go home if their family was back in their home country and they could travel across the border for work and back without fear. 75 years ago there were border checks and if you didn't have a farm ready for you to work on, you didn't cross the border. If you did a good job, the farmer would want to hire you back the next year. Families stayed home. America was not paying to educate the families of the workers and the home countries benefited from the influx of cash.
Posted by idk on July 31, 2007 07:53 PMTruth sorry been out and not able to reply to your last comment to me. You did not scroll up further to use one of your first posts on this thread. Now this says that we should pay. You can call me dense for not understanding what you are saying, but do you know what you are saying? Next time I guess I will copy paste your statements so you remember what you said. It contradicts what you made your points on for AMEN. And then you called her dishonest.
"There are still a lot of people whose minds can't grasp the fact that we don't educate people solely for their benefit. It is very important to the quality of America that the people living here be educated. In my opinion, a nation that wants to be great has an obligation to itself and its people to educate as many of the people who live here as possible. We complain that the illegals don't assimilate well, and then we deny them the opportunity to assimilate and to become particularly productive citizens and a big credit to our country."
One paragraph later is same post:
"Yes, it costs money to help people like Ruby to get a college education, though not nearly as much as it costs to house people in prisons for many years. If you don't realize that the big majority of the multimillions in our prisons are poorly educated, that is because you yourself are poorly educated.
Posted by Truth on July 30, 2007 07:29 PM "
Your words on this post Truth, not mine.
Once again I think "Ruby" and "Paola" are fakes. I truly believe some pro-illegal groups have written these phony letters to RMN to "get a feel" for local sentiment.
Am I the only person here that finds it STRANGE that TWO boo - hoo( I'm just an innocent kid of illegals) letters, which are damn near identical, show up on "Letters To The Editor"in the same week ?
These two supposed "children" are more than likely adults from La Raza or other pro-illegal groups trying to garner sympathy for illegals.
These groups will stoop to any low-life measures to get what they want.
One good example is the ACLU: American Criminal Liberties Union!
They fight like mad dogs for criminals and their rights!
I think we have been duped by these letters!
I
Bango, You said in an earlier post .I am supposed to feel sorry for Ruby because she had no choice in her parents bringing her here illegally. Yes she stated that she was one years old.
She is now I assume a teenager and feels she is entittled to in-state tuition because she still does not want to follow our laws.
If she had any moral compass,or the brains to figure out right from wrong,she would see that what her family did was wrong and what she thinks she is entitled to is wrong and her being in this country is wrong and if she was brought up with any sense of right or wrong she would tell her family she is going to do the right thing and go back to her country of origin and get in line and suggest they do the same.
If you read her letter she has no regard for the laws of this state or country. She calls our laws stupid and she should be given what she wants,because she is entitled to it though she and her family are illegals.
She asks what benefits do we get. Well if she was educated she would know if you are a citizen you get alot from this country.Evidently she missed class the day they explained if you sneak into this country illegally you are breaking the law,thus you are a criminal. So she and her family of criminals are demanding more rights they do not deserve.
The whole letter is a child's rant. A temper tantrum because she can't get what she wants because she and her family are in this country illegally and breaking the laws of our country, BOO! HOO!
Posted by Can I get an AMEN! on August 1, 2007 10:47 AM