Upside down flag
Subject: in regards to flying the flag upside down This is in response to the woman flying her flag upside down.
Let me start off by saying, how dare you! You are doing nothing but disrespecting our colors, you are disrespecting those soldiers that are fighting to maintain the freedom that you enjoy. Who gives a crap about your opinion anyway. Nobody likes the war and everyone has an opinion about it. The least you could do is find another way to express your opinion. Instead of disrespecting our colors in that fashion.
It was said in the letter that you love this country and that you respect our colors. But let me just say to you and to anyone who views burning the flag or disrespecting it in any fashion other than flying it the right way is a way of expressing your freedom of speech is total crap. There are plenty of other ways to voice your opinion.
Until you put on a uniform and stand a post you simply need to keep your mouth shut and just say thank you to all those who have done and are continuing to fight for your freedom.
I to am an Army Veteran and my husband is a Army/Marine Veteran and we stand proud of what it means to represent our country by serving in the military. It is an honor. When we fly our flag it is in the deepest respect for our country and our colors.
You have no idea what those soldiers are going through or what they are doing. All you hear is the bad things. they are doing a lot of good things that nobody hears about.
All you need to do is just say thank you to all of those who are putting their lives on the line keeping the peace.
This letter has not been edited.
If you are truly 'Army' and I doubt it, you would realize that an upside down flag is a distress signal used BY the military. It in no way disrepects soldiers or the flag. We ARE in distress, we ARE in danger until we get the monkey out of the White House. Impeach the corrupt Pres & VP and bring the troops home!!!
Posted by jimd4x4 on July 18, 2007 02:15 PMWhat disrespect the soldiers and the flag is sending the military into illegal wars on borrowed money...
Posted by Roy on July 18, 2007 02:18 PMAs long as someone is supporting the troops with their tax dollars, they have the right to do whatever they want to with the flag.
This Speakout, as a a way of expressing your freedom of speech, is total crap.
p.s. Thanks for serving.
Posted by BetsyRoss on July 18, 2007 02:36 PMThe letter writer didn't claim it wasn't her right to fly the flag upside down. The writer is just saying F.O. to the jerkface. And I agree.
Posted by Homer on July 18, 2007 02:52 PMTeresa is clearly a Christian who places so much value on her opinion she is willing to torture, stone, burn, kill others on account of it.
Deicide Corner: “No power of government ought to be employed in the endeavor to establish any system or article of belief on the subject of religion. . . . in no instance has a system in regard to religion been ever established, but for the purpose, as well as with the effect of its being made an instrument of intimidation, corruption, and delusion, for the support of depredation and oppression in the hands of governments.”
-- Jeremy Bentham
Teresa condescendingly said ” Until you put on a uniform and stand a post you simply need to keep your mouth shut and just say thank you to all those who have done and are continuing to fight for your freedom”
Get over yourself Teresa, other people do their bit just as much and everybody has the right to voice their perspective.
If that wasn’t the case then there would be nothing for the military to defend.
Don’t for one moment think that millions of ordinary people aren’t fighting for freedom every day of the year, and that somehow it is just people in uniform who serve, fight, and suffer to uphold freedom.
So there!
Richard has a loathing for Christianity. He makes it clear in about every letter. Your loathing carried over to Teresa. Of course it was a straw man set up to display your hate. Personally If you want to be an atheist, fine. There is a right to freedom of religion (atheism?). Let me list a few famous atheists: Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot. History records the accomplishment of their hate. What will it record of yours?
Posted by Tom on July 18, 2007 05:55 PMTom, what are you trying to say with that list?
Posted by Bango Skank on July 18, 2007 06:26 PMThersa Thurber no one cares a rats ass about your opinion, and all your ranting is pure garbage and an indication that you do not know what you are talking about, so STFU!!!
Posted by Ron 2 on July 18, 2007 06:30 PMSuppose you are a member of our troops in Iraq and you hear this story. Would you be offended or would you recognize exactly what the flag means in this case? Upside down to show that we as a nation are in distress.
Would you feel bad thinking that the people back home, want you home? If the flag came down and the owner said " Oh, OK I support the war, stay on for as long as it takes," then what would you feel?
from everything I have heard our troops want to come home NOW or ASAP.
Posted by Sharon B. on July 18, 2007 07:41 PMTeresa Thurber screamed:
"You are doing nothing but disrespecting our colors..."
Sounds like a gang fight!
Posted by Charles B on July 18, 2007 08:26 PMTeresa I am with you. These people that posted the garbage on this site are nothing.
They take the talking points of the Left and have no brains to think for themselves, also they would never be bothered to serve their country, they are too busy standing in the government line for their handouts. I am a Veteran and served two tours in Vietnam and watched as theses so called Americans bought all the lies of the left of John Kerry and the Ted Kennedys of the world and did more than fly the flag upside down. The person that flew the flag upside down to show his or her distress is probably because her government check was late. Thank you and your Husband for your service and God Bless
"Who gives a crap about your opinion anyway. "
I think that's how most people feel about your moronic rantings, Teresa. Blow it out your...
Posted by on July 18, 2007 09:51 PMThank you for your service Ron and Teresa. I agree with Teresa all the way. You do not disrespect the flag. If you have a problem with that leave.
Posted by kg on July 18, 2007 09:55 PMTom,
One of our most precious rights is religious freedom. Richard speaks his mind and never tries to hide behind anohther's opinion. As a strong Christian I MUST support his right to do this even though I disagree. As a free American I must also support the right of this woman to express her opinon by flying her flag this way while she seeks out her fifteen minutes. I need agree with neither person but must defend with their liberty to protect my own.
Posted by momma y on July 19, 2007 03:20 AMRon screamed:
"also they would never be bothered to serve their country,"
You must be including Bush, Cheney and all the other Republican Chickenhawks in your rant.
Posted by conservative media on July 19, 2007 07:08 AMLet's hear it for that intellectual giant, Ron. Here is his brand of logic:
You fly the flag upside down.
Therefore, your government check was late.
Ron, your brain is badly in need of a tuneup.
Posted by Truth on July 19, 2007 07:23 AMSpeaking as a combat veteran of Vietnam- 2nd Bn., 12 Inf. Rgmnt., 25 Inf. Div. RVN 1965-66 -I recall that the oath I took was to defend the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. Now I realize that in these times oaths of allegiance and fealty to the Bush are more important to some people than that oath to the constitution. It's telling but not unusual to hear reactionaries like our boy ron accuse someone else of mindlessness all the while using nothing but the latest sound bites and catchprases from the frightwing noise machine. This woman is well within her rights, the rights I supposedly fought for, even though Vietnam may have been less of a threat to our national security than Iraq. I wonder what folk like the original writer and our boy ron are going to do when their personal exalted leader has left office via consttutional requirement and returned to the obscurity of the all-hat-no-cattle-photo-op-ranch?
Posted by patrick on July 19, 2007 08:51 AMTeresa, with all due respect, I really think you need to understand the difference between emotional response and reasonable consideration of what is at stake.
When people adopt a material object and grant it devine status they are favoring idolatry over logical truth and freedom. A flag is made of cloth, the ideal of the flag is a belief. If that belief is threatened in you mind by an old lady flying a cloth flag upside down in an expression of the distress she believes the country is in, then that makes your belief in the ideal of the flag of secondary importance to the material object.
People who don't understand the ideal of the flag who stoop to favoring material object idolarty over what the ideal of what the flag represents show by that action, not only ignorance but, a dangerous trend toward making material things more important than what many have fought and died to defend and protect, Freedom Liberty and Justice. I don't care what people do to a piece of cloth, I care about what this country stands for based on the rule of law and, if some need the crutch of that piece of cloth to sustain their belief, then they have no belief, only a piece of cloth to believe in.
That's right Teresa, as Ron said, the people that posted the garbage on this site are nothing.
They just made sure that you and Ron were paid for your military service by sending a large chunk of their paychecks to draft-dodging politicians for redistribution.
Feeling disrespected because of a flag flown upside-down? I feel disrespected by a President destroying the good reputation of my country. Which is worse?
Posted by BetsyRoss on July 19, 2007 09:21 AMTeresa
Don't expect a group of socialist atheists to understand a word of your letter.
Thanks for your service to protect our freedom, even their inane ramblings.
Posted by skeptical on July 19, 2007 10:23 AM...and we thank skeptical and Teresa for the perspective of the fascist theocrats.
Posted by BetsyRoss on July 19, 2007 11:21 AMOnce again see what we are dealing with in this country and how perfect these liberals think they are. Wow!!!!!!! Just read their nasty nasty posts. Thank you for your service Teresa and also thank your husband for his service. Also Ron, thank you for your service.
Patrick just cause you served in Viet Nam does not make you all knowing and right. Just because people love their country (unlike you) does not mean they love Bush. Even if they do he beat out your personal exalted leader John Kerry.
Posted by on July 19, 2007 12:42 PMBush worships the flag, but not the constitution and you do not see this as misplaced idolatry?
Skeptical, put and/or between socialist/atheist or I will whip up a Goddess spell and freeze your keyboard.
Some of us believe in the God of Einstein, the natural universe.
Posted by Sharon B. on July 19, 2007 12:55 PM If you have a problem with that leave.
Posted by kg on July 18, 2007 09:55 PM
That's the pot calling the kettle black. If you have a problem with political expression, leave.
Posted by JK1456 on July 19, 2007 01:01 PMBetsyRoss
I deny being a facist theocrat while my guess is that you are proud of being a socialistic atheist.
What's this damned ice forming on my keyboard?
Posted by skeptical on July 19, 2007 04:46 PMSocial? yes. Socialistic? not so much.
And an atheist denies the existence of God. I never denied that God once existed...before the fascist theocrats killed him/her/it.
Posted by BetsyRoss on July 19, 2007 05:11 PMHow did this comment about a upside down flag turn into diatribes pissing contest about religion which has nothing at all to do with the issue. If you want an argument about religion I'll give you one: believe what you may but , don't expect me to accept it nor be persuaded by your inane and insulting invectives that you are the authority on which belief is right or wrong.
Posted by Allen Campbell on July 20, 2007 06:36 AMAllen Campbell,
What you are seeing here is the natural result of religious fanaticism, which is almost always directed towards an object, rather than towards anything abstract.
Hebrew mythology tells us how the people created a golden calf to represent their idea of Diety. Again and again, throughout history, we find one or another material object becoming the focus of worship; because an object is accessable to the human senses. One can actually see, touch, and otherwise physically experience an object; while the concept of a spiritual being - a Diety that is outside and above human physical experience - is impossible for most simple human minds to even begin to grasp, much less understand. A material object is also something manageable and concrete, whose structure - as well as whose perceived qualities of "super-human" - can be controlled, and made available even to the poorest member of the worshiping group.
Thus, when the almost totally illiterate population of Europe first became acquainted with the idea of printing - and the heretofore laboriously hand transcribed and illuminated bound manuscripts of religion were made available in relatively large quantities - the Book became the object of worship, which it remains even today among the cults and sects that make up the vast religious wasteland of what is generally called "Protestantism". One can read - or have read to one - the "word(s) of Diety", straight from the physical idol; and thus one's religious experience is made real, as well as becoming something which it is now necessary to force all others to accept and experience as well.
In the past Century, or so, with the events of two disastrous World Wars, and all the accompanying social, political, and psychological turmoil, there has been an increasing tendencey to regard the physical sympols of a Nation as the objects of worship. And for many, the flag has now become as much an idol as the Book; since the psychological responses of idolatry are always open to mixing the concepts of "Law", "Patriotism", "Country", and "Diety" - as well as "(Political) Party" and "Leader" - into a homogenized form, with any symbol, or group of symbols, being the focus of worship as the idolatry is being expressed.
The Germanic cry of, "Gott mit uns!", is echoed, and re-echoed, in almost every human language, with appropriate ceremonies by which to worship the symbol attached. And perhaps one historical example in America might suffice here: One of the first American banners had a snake, coiled and poised to strike, with the words, "Don't Tread on Me". The form and color of the current flag differs from this first symbol, of course; but the religious worship remains the same.
Posted by Old Grouch on July 20, 2007 08:02 AM
Well put Old Grouch. Maybe you and Mr. Campbell can tell me...why fanaticism directed toward worshiping an object soon becomes directed toward hating and killing people? Is it because the thinking goes: God (the all powerful) is on our side and not on yours because you don't believe?, so you (the non-believer) are not worthy of the gift of life that God gives?
Or is it because the "believers" are actually filled with doubt, and killing off the doubters shut them the hell up so that the believers can convince themselves in blissful ignorance?
Or is it because patriotism is fun!?
p.s. Don't tread on me.
Posted by BetsyRoss on July 20, 2007 08:54 AMBetsyRoss,
It really is a combination of all those responses. The war-monger(s) play on them as they appear to surface among the masses; and stimulate particular responses when such will serve to advance the "cause".
Doubt and fear usually go pretty much hand in hand. To doubt is to stimulate the fear that what one proposes to do - or is doing - might NOT result in the desired - or projected - glorious outcome.
The first response is, usually, to DO more, which it is hoped will resolve the doubt, and firm up the prospect of achieving whatever glorious outcome is projected. But to DO more also stimulates the fear that one is not DOING enough. And, as the fear grows, it stimulates hatred for those who are not DOING as the doubter is. And, this leads to abandonment of any sense of respect for anyone who either expresses other doubts, or who refuses to participate in the DOING. This then stimulates the sense that those "others" are NOT "true believers", or that God (as embodied in the idol) is not on their side.
This is a sort of "perpetual motion" form of psychological endless response. In the end, it leads to what the General said - back some time ago, when dealing with recruiting, and objections to serving in the Armed Forces because of Iraq - "Shooting people is fun". Which is an expression of "patriotism" in its most idolatrous form.
Posted by Old Grouch on July 20, 2007 09:34 AMAh, in that case, I'm slapping a "support our troops" magnet on my car along with a "real men love Jesus" bumper sticker and keeping my head ducked and "subversive thoughts" to myself.
fear and doubt AND shooting people is fun?!?! yikes.
oops, I just fell into a fear and doubt vortex.
Posted by BetsyRoss on July 20, 2007 10:52 AMTake Thanksgiving day and everyone hang a flag upside down to get Bush's attention.
We all flew them after 9-11 and felt good about it. Lets bring them home!
Posted by Sharon B. on July 20, 2007 06:28 PM"And an atheist denies the existence of God."
Not exactly. This atheist says "I don't know if God exists, but I can find no proof that he/she/it does, and therefor I live my life under the assumption that he/she/it does not.."
Posted by Charles B on July 20, 2007 09:47 PMCharles B,
Which might better come under the heading of, "agnostic", rather than "atheist".
Posted by Old Grouch on July 21, 2007 07:50 AMDEFENDING MY FREEDOM????? Teresa, teresa, teresa!!!! The soldiers, now in Iraq, are not now, nor were they EVER protecting my and my fellow Americans' FREEDOM!!!! Please, get the facts straight before condemning those of us who realize this war is ILLEGAL and that our country - which we hold dear and love - is in COMPLETE distress and we need help to get out of it. The woman who put her flag (a piece of cloth and a SYMBOL) upside down, did the right thing.
Posted by sheila on July 21, 2007 01:51 PMDEFENDING MY FREEDOM????? Teresa, teresa, teresa!!!! The soldiers, now in Iraq, are not now, nor were they EVER protecting my and my fellow Americans' FREEDOM!!!! Please, get the facts straight before condemning those of us who realize this war is ILLEGAL and that our country - which we hold dear and love - is in COMPLETE distress and we need help to get out of it. The woman who put her flag (a piece of cloth and a SYMBOL) upside down, did the right thing.
Posted by sheila on July 21, 2007 01:52 PMOG,
Not really. If proving a negative is what makes an atheist, then atheism does not exist.
Living life as though there is no God is really the best a person can do. Nobody can prove God exists or not. Calculating the probabilitiy is the best anyone can do, and the probability is that he/she/it does not exist.
But you can call me agnostic if you want. It doesn't change my outlook and I take no offense.
Posted by Charles B on July 22, 2007 10:23 AMThat is why, and thank you all for your reasonable and thought out responses, I asked the the question. Now to what my answer is; belief is the strongest and most unexplainable force in the human psyche. People come to believe something or in something for many and varied reasons but, it is hard for them, after the fact, to articulate exactly what that reason is but, even so, they will insist on beliving it in spite of that fact. Therefor, the only option they have is to attempt to destroy that which opposes their unexplainable belief. If they could explain the reason they believe what they do, there would be no reason to defend it for then it would be knowledge. That is why arguing with belief is futile.
If you want to change belief you must prove that that belief causes the direct opposite results of what that belief fundamentally embraces and even then it takes empirical evidence do so. It is also possible the believer will come to that conclusion in the natural course of living under that belief.
The primary point however, is that one understands that while having their belief is a constitutional right they have no right to enforce their belief on anyone else nor the right to punish those who do not share in that belief. When any belief becomes the societal requirement , tyranny is waiting in the wings.
Posted by Allen Campbell on July 22, 2007 11:48 AM