Anglos no longer majority in Denver
Re: Anglos no longer majority in Denver
Mayor Hickenlooper can also be thanked for many of the city’s changes. He caters to the city’s illegals and publicly supports day labor sites over hiring legal American workers. But then again, that isn’t surprising when we remember that Raul Garcia-Gomez, the illegal alien who killed Denver Police Detective Donnie Young, was working at the Cherry Cricket (co-owned by Hickenlooper).
Kallenberger can say Denver is “all grown up.” But one thing Denver cannot boast anymore is being the un congested, safe, desirable “cow town” it was in the 70s and 80s.
This letter has not been edited.
Scott,
Are you implying that no Anglos commit crimes?
It certainly sounds like you are under the impression that absolutly no crimes of any kind (commited by the lighter skin color) happened during the 70s-80s.
Is this what you are saying? Because otherwise it really sounds like you just don't like brown people.
Michelle,
You and Truth enjoy reading INTO things, instead of just reading a post, don't you?
The ONE crime that Mr. Sedei (from Longmont no less) writes about was a specific person who killed a Denver Detective and worked at an establishment that Mayor Hickenlooper co-owns. Every other point would be an observation (although a some what prejudicial observation in regard to "barrio").
But, I suppose if you can't discuss an issue on it's merit, it is always a good idea to deflect the point of the topic to something in which was just not presented.
Way to go Michelle.
Posted by Read the post on August 16, 2007 02:55 PMI wonder how their going to hide the real Denver when theDNC comes to town.I guess they will just show the front door of the Pepsi Center.Probably a helicopter shot of the mountains and the skyline of Denver.
I encourage all illegals to demonstrate outside the DNC and bring all your kids with you.Make sure you have many Mexican flags and if you feel like it you can burn a few American flags.Don't forget the signs demanding the democrats give you automatic citizenship,free housing in an upscale neighborhood,free medical care,free food,better wages,better schools you can tear apart,free college tuition,and they right to commit any crimes you want and make sure you request ahead of time so they can bring them with them when they come,A Get Out Of Jail Free Card.These will help them get you to vote for them.Oh illegals can't vote.Doesn't matter never stopped you before. Besides everyone has fake I.D.'s sanctioned by the good ole USA.
Posted by Can I get an AMEN! on August 16, 2007 03:15 PMMichelle uses a tactic in her argument that seems to be pervasive in most of the political discourse we see and hear today. It's really simple-change the focus of the argument. and try to silence the person with whom you disagree with a personal attack.
Any one who is against amnesty for "illegals" is a raciest.
If you disagree on the cause of global warming you are a "denier" who must be silenced.
And yes, global warming is political discourse.
The personal attack is usually the refuge for those who are ill equipped to fight in the war of ideas.
Anglos are not the majority in Denver-BIG DEAL! The truth of the matter is there are
a growing Hispanic population, legal or
illegal that will CONTINUE to be exploited
by Big Business owners, to build their
properties, their businesses and continue
to be exploited.
More Hispanic labor, this is great for
business who can continue to pay
people less. America and the powers
to be will continue to give the appearance
that they are against Illegals, and terrorism,
the TRUTH Being the US is headed
for a ONE WORLD, ONE GOVERNMENT
starting in May 2008!
May 2008 requires everyone have an ID
card in American, a nice dirty little secret
that further substantiates ONE WORLD
ORDER, beware of Big Brother, not
this other B.S.! The media feeds you fools!
Anglos are not the majority in Denver-BIG DEAL! The truth of the matter is there are
a growing Hispanic population, legal or
illegal that will CONTINUE to be exploited
by Big Business owners, to build their
properties, their businesses and continue
to be exploited.
More Hispanic labor, this is great for
business who can continue to pay
people less. America and the powers
to be will continue to give the appearance
that they are against Illegals, and terrorism,
the TRUTH Being the US is headed
for a ONE WORLD, ONE GOVERNMENT
starting in May 2008!
May 2008 requires everyone have an ID
card in American, a nice dirty little secret
that further substantiates ONE WORLD
ORDER, beware of Big Brother, not
this other B.S.! The media feeds you fools!
Anglos are not the majority in Denver-BIG DEAL! The truth of the matter is there are
a growing Hispanic population, legal or
illegal that will CONTINUE to be exploited
by Big Business owners, to build their
properties, their businesses and continue
to be exploited.
More Hispanic labor, this is great for
business who can continue to pay
people less. America and the powers
to be will continue to give the appearance
that they are against Illegals, and terrorism,
the TRUTH Being the US is headed
for a ONE WORLD, ONE GOVERNMENT
starting in May 2008!
May 2008 requires everyone have an ID
card in American, a nice dirty little secret
that further substantiates ONE WORLD
ORDER, beware of Big Brother, not
this other B.S.! The media feeds you fools!
Anglos are not the majority in Denver-BIG DEAL! The truth of the matter is there are
a growing Hispanic population, legal or
illegal that will CONTINUE to be exploited
by Big Business owners, to build their
properties, their businesses and continue
to be exploited.
More Hispanic labor, this is great for
business who can continue to pay
people less. America and the powers
to be will continue to give the appearance
that they are against Illegals, and terrorism,
the TRUTH Being the US is headed
for a ONE WORLD, ONE GOVERNMENT
starting in May 2008!
May 2008 requires everyone have an ID
card in American, a nice dirty little secret
that further substantiates ONE WORLD
ORDER, beware of Big Brother, not
this other B.S.! The media feeds you fools!
Anglos are not the majority in Denver-BIG DEAL! The truth of the matter is there are
a growing Hispanic population, legal or
illegal that will CONTINUE to be exploited
by Big Business owners, to build their
properties, their businesses and continue
to be exploited.
More Hispanic labor, this is great for
business who can continue to pay
people less. America and the powers
to be will continue to give the appearance
that they are against Illegals, and terrorism,
the TRUTH Being the US is headed
for a ONE WORLD, ONE GOVERNMENT
starting in May 2008!
May 2008 requires everyone have an ID
card in American, a nice dirty little secret
that further substantiates ONE WORLD
ORDER, beware of Big Brother, not
this other B.S.! The media feeds you fools!
Anglos are not the majority in Denver-BIG DEAL! The truth of the matter is there are
a growing Hispanic population, legal or
illegal that will CONTINUE to be exploited
by Big Business owners, to build their
properties, their businesses and continue
to be exploited.
More Hispanic labor, this is great for
business who can continue to pay
people less. America and the powers
to be will continue to give the appearance
that they are against Illegals, and terrorism,
the TRUTH Being the US is headed
for a ONE WORLD, ONE GOVERNMENT
starting in May 2008!
May 2008 requires everyone have an ID
card in American, a nice dirty little secret
that further substantiates ONE WORLD
ORDER, beware of Big Brother, not
this other B.S.! The media feeds you fools!
Anglos are not the majority in Denver-BIG DEAL! The truth of the matter is there are
a growing Hispanic population, legal or
illegal that will CONTINUE to be exploited
by Big Business owners, to build their
properties, their businesses and continue
to be exploited.
More Hispanic labor, this is great for
business who can continue to pay
people less. America and the powers
to be will continue to give the appearance
that they are against Illegals, and terrorism,
the TRUTH Being the US is headed
for a ONE WORLD, ONE GOVERNMENT
starting in May 2008!
May 2008 requires everyone have an ID
card in American, a nice dirty little secret
that further substantiates ONE WORLD
ORDER, beware of Big Brother, not
this other B.S.! The media feeds you fools!
Anglos are not the majority in Denver-BIG DEAL! The truth of the matter is there are
a growing Hispanic population, legal or
illegal that will CONTINUE to be exploited
by Big Business owners, to build their
properties, their businesses and continue
to be exploited.
More Hispanic labor, this is great for
business who can continue to pay
people less. America and the powers
to be will continue to give the appearance
that they are against Illegals, and terrorism,
the TRUTH Being the US is headed
for a ONE WORLD, ONE GOVERNMENT
starting in May 2008!
May 2008 requires everyone have an ID
card in American, a nice dirty little secret
that further substantiates ONE WORLD
ORDER, beware of Big Brother, not
this other B.S.! The media feeds you fools!
Anglos are not the majority in Denver-BIG DEAL! The truth of the matter is there are
a growing Hispanic population, legal or
illegal that will CONTINUE to be exploited
by Big Business owners, to build their
properties, their businesses and continue
to be exploited.
More Hispanic labor, this is great for
business who can continue to pay
people less. America and the powers
to be will continue to give the appearance
that they are against Illegals, and terrorism,
the TRUTH Being the US is headed
for a ONE WORLD, ONE GOVERNMENT
starting in May 2008!
May 2008 requires everyone have an ID
card in American, a nice dirty little secret
that further substantiates ONE WORLD
ORDER, beware of Big Brother, not
this other B.S.! The media feeds you fools!
Anglos are not the majority in Denver-BIG DEAL! The truth of the matter is there are
a growing Hispanic population, legal or
illegal that will CONTINUE to be exploited
by Big Business owners, to build their
properties, their businesses and continue
to be exploited.
More Hispanic labor, this is great for
business who can continue to pay
people less. America and the powers
to be will continue to give the appearance
that they are against Illegals, and terrorism,
the TRUTH Being the US is headed
for a ONE WORLD, ONE GOVERNMENT
starting in May 2008!
May 2008 requires everyone have an ID
card in American, a nice dirty little secret
that further substantiates ONE WORLD
ORDER, beware of Big Brother, not
this other B.S.! The media feeds you fools!
Anglos are not the majority in Denver-BIG DEAL! The truth of the matter is there are
a growing Hispanic population, legal or
illegal that will CONTINUE to be exploited
by Big Business owners, to build their
properties, their businesses and continue
to be exploited.
More Hispanic labor, this is great for
business who can continue to pay
people less. America and the powers
to be will continue to give the appearance
that they are against Illegals, and terrorism,
the TRUTH Being the US is headed
for a ONE WORLD, ONE GOVERNMENT
starting in May 2008!
May 2008 requires everyone have an ID
card in American, a nice dirty little secret
that further substantiates ONE WORLD
ORDER, beware of Big Brother, not
this other B.S.! The media feeds you fools!
Anglos are not the majority in Denver-BIG DEAL! The truth of the matter is there are
a growing Hispanic population, legal or
illegal that will CONTINUE to be exploited
by Big Business owners, to build their
properties, their businesses and continue
to be exploited.
More Hispanic labor, this is great for
business who can continue to pay
people less. America and the powers
to be will continue to give the appearance
that they are against Illegals, and terrorism,
the TRUTH Being the US is headed
for a ONE WORLD, ONE GOVERNMENT
starting in May 2008!
May 2008 requires everyone have an ID
card in American, a nice dirty little secret
that further substantiates ONE WORLD
ORDER, beware of Big Brother, not
this other B.S.! The media feeds you fools!
Anglos are not the majority in Denver-BIG DEAL! The truth of the matter is there are
a growing Hispanic population, legal or
illegal that will CONTINUE to be exploited
by Big Business owners, to build their
properties, their businesses and continue
to be exploited.
More Hispanic labor, this is great for
business who can continue to pay
people less. America and the powers
to be will continue to give the appearance
that they are against Illegals, and terrorism,
the TRUTH Being the US is headed
for a ONE WORLD, ONE GOVERNMENT
starting in May 2008!
May 2008 requires everyone have an ID
card in American, a nice dirty little secret
that further substantiates ONE WORLD
ORDER, beware of Big Brother, not
this other B.S.! The media feeds you fools!
Anglos are not the majority in Denver-BIG DEAL! The truth of the matter is there are
a growing Hispanic population, legal or
illegal that will CONTINUE to be exploited
by Big Business owners, to build their
properties, their businesses and continue
to be exploited.
More Hispanic labor, this is great for
business who can continue to pay
people less. America and the powers
to be will continue to give the appearance
that they are against Illegals, and terrorism,
the TRUTH Being the US is headed
for a ONE WORLD, ONE GOVERNMENT
starting in May 2008!
May 2008 requires everyone have an ID
card in American, a nice dirty little secret
that further substantiates ONE WORLD
ORDER, beware of Big Brother, not
this other B.S.! The media feeds you fools!
Anglos are not the majority in Denver-BIG DEAL! The truth of the matter is there are
a growing Hispanic population, legal or
illegal that will CONTINUE to be exploited
by Big Business owners, to build their
properties, their businesses and continue
to be exploited.
More Hispanic labor, this is great for
business who can continue to pay
people less. America and the powers
to be will continue to give the appearance
that they are against Illegals, and terrorism,
the TRUTH Being the US is headed
for a ONE WORLD, ONE GOVERNMENT
starting in May 2008!
May 2008 requires everyone have an ID
card in American, a nice dirty little secret
that further substantiates ONE WORLD
ORDER, beware of Big Brother, not
this other B.S.! The media feeds you fools!
Anglos are not the majority in Denver-BIG DEAL! The truth of the matter is there are
a growing Hispanic population, legal or
illegal that will CONTINUE to be exploited
by Big Business owners, to build their
properties, their businesses and continue
to be exploited.
More Hispanic labor, this is great for
business who can continue to pay
people less. America and the powers
to be will continue to give the appearance
that they are against Illegals, and terrorism,
the TRUTH Being the US is headed
for a ONE WORLD, ONE GOVERNMENT
starting in May 2008!
May 2008 requires everyone have an ID
card in American, a nice dirty little secret
that further substantiates ONE WORLD
ORDER, beware of Big Brother, not
this other B.S.! The media feeds you fools!
Anglos are not the majority in Denver-BIG DEAL! The truth of the matter is there are
a growing Hispanic population, legal or
illegal that will CONTINUE to be exploited
by Big Business owners, to build their
properties, their businesses and continue
to be exploited.
More Hispanic labor, this is great for
business who can continue to pay
people less. America and the powers
to be will continue to give the appearance
that they are against Illegals, and terrorism,
the TRUTH Being the US is headed
for a ONE WORLD, ONE GOVERNMENT
starting in May 2008!
May 2008 requires everyone have an ID
card in American, a nice dirty little secret
that further substantiates ONE WORLD
ORDER, beware of Big Brother, not
this other B.S.! The media feeds you fools!
Anglos are not the majority in Denver-BIG DEAL! The truth of the matter is there are
a growing Hispanic population, legal or
illegal that will CONTINUE to be exploited
by Big Business owners, to build their
properties, their businesses and continue
to be exploited.
More Hispanic labor, this is great for
business who can continue to pay
people less. America and the powers
to be will continue to give the appearance
that they are against Illegals, and terrorism,
the TRUTH Being the US is headed
for a ONE WORLD, ONE GOVERNMENT
starting in May 2008!
May 2008 requires everyone have an ID
card in American, a nice dirty little secret
that further substantiates ONE WORLD
ORDER, beware of Big Brother, not
this other B.S.! The media feeds you fools!
Anglos are not the majority in Denver-BIG DEAL! The truth of the matter is there are
a growing Hispanic population, legal or
illegal that will CONTINUE to be exploited
by Big Business owners, to build their
properties, their businesses and continue
to be exploited.
More Hispanic labor, this is great for
business who can continue to pay
people less. America and the powers
to be will continue to give the appearance
that they are against Illegals, and terrorism,
the TRUTH Being the US is headed
for a ONE WORLD, ONE GOVERNMENT
starting in May 2008!
May 2008 requires everyone have an ID
card in American, a nice dirty little secret
that further substantiates ONE WORLD
ORDER, beware of Big Brother, not
this other B.S.! The media feeds you fools!
Anglos are not the majority in Denver-BIG DEAL! The truth of the matter is there are
a growing Hispanic population, legal or
illegal that will CONTINUE to be exploited
by Big Business owners, to build their
properties, their businesses and continue
to be exploited.
More Hispanic labor, this is great for
business who can continue to pay
people less. America and the powers
to be will continue to give the appearance
that they are against Illegals, and terrorism,
the TRUTH Being the US is headed
for a ONE WORLD, ONE GOVERNMENT
starting in May 2008!
May 2008 requires everyone have an ID
card in American, a nice dirty little secret
that further substantiates ONE WORLD
ORDER, beware of Big Brother, not
this other B.S.! The media feeds you fools!
Anglos are not the majority in Denver-BIG DEAL! The truth of the matter is there are
a growing Hispanic population, legal or
illegal that will CONTINUE to be exploited
by Big Business owners, to build their
properties, their businesses and continue
to be exploited.
More Hispanic labor, this is great for
business who can continue to pay
people less. America and the powers
to be will continue to give the appearance
that they are against Illegals, and terrorism,
the TRUTH Being the US is headed
for a ONE WORLD, ONE GOVERNMENT
starting in May 2008!
May 2008 requires everyone have an ID
card in American, a nice dirty little secret
that further substantiates ONE WORLD
ORDER, beware of Big Brother, not
this other B.S.! The media feeds you fools!
Anglos are not the majority in Denver-BIG DEAL! The truth of the matter is there are
a growing Hispanic population, legal or
illegal that will CONTINUE to be exploited
by Big Business owners, to build their
properties, their businesses and continue
to be exploited.
More Hispanic labor, this is great for
business who can continue to pay
people less. America and the powers
to be will continue to give the appearance
that they are against Illegals, and terrorism,
the TRUTH Being the US is headed
for a ONE WORLD, ONE GOVERNMENT
starting in May 2008!
May 2008 requires everyone have an ID
card in American, a nice dirty little secret
that further substantiates ONE WORLD
ORDER, beware of Big Brother, not
this other B.S.! The media feeds you fools!
Anglos are not the majority in Denver-BIG DEAL! The truth of the matter is there are
a growing Hispanic population, legal or
illegal that will CONTINUE to be exploited
by Big Business owners, to build their
properties, their businesses and continue
to be exploited.
More Hispanic labor, this is great for
business who can continue to pay
people less. America and the powers
to be will continue to give the appearance
that they are against Illegals, and terrorism,
the TRUTH Being the US is headed
for a ONE WORLD, ONE GOVERNMENT
starting in May 2008!
May 2008 requires everyone have an ID
card in American, a nice dirty little secret
that further substantiates ONE WORLD
ORDER, beware of Big Brother, not
this other B.S.! The media feeds you fools!
Anglos are not the majority in Denver-BIG DEAL! The truth of the matter is there are
a growing Hispanic population, legal or
illegal that will CONTINUE to be exploited
by Big Business owners, to build their
properties, their businesses and continue
to be exploited.
More Hispanic labor, this is great for
business who can continue to pay
people less. America and the powers
to be will continue to give the appearance
that they are against Illegals, and terrorism,
the TRUTH Being the US is headed
for a ONE WORLD, ONE GOVERNMENT
starting in May 2008!
May 2008 requires everyone have an ID
card in American, a nice dirty little secret
that further substantiates ONE WORLD
ORDER, beware of Big Brother, not
this other B.S.! The media feeds you fools!
Good grief CM, when you wish to post just type out what you want to say and press post for about 30 seconds the message WILL be sent! Sometimes it is a little slow, but it will show up!
Posted by A on August 16, 2007 04:01 PMCM......
Why are you sniveling about legal-illegal's being exploited by big business..when you all were making $4.75 PER DAY in MEXICO
Your own country..!That's your president FOX/
CALDEON doing that to you! Now you all come to America and complain about the work...thats not yours to begin with, it belongs to the American people black,spanish,white and our teenagers!
What INGRATES!!!!!
Allright, who's the rectal wart who keeps posting the same crap? Buy yourself a word processing program if you love seeing your own stuff so dang much.
Posted by on August 16, 2007 04:19 PMI agree with "Amen" Great minds think alike right Amen?
Posted by on August 16, 2007 04:28 PMSo what to conclude, that the letter writer has no intention of moving from Longmont to Denver anytime soon?
Ten years ago I bought a house in a Denver neighborhood that has a demographic that makes it a 'barrio' in the letter writer's world view. I have seen its value increase 300%, as folks a lot wealthier than this Anglo move into downtown Denver, into lofts and refurbished houses where there once were vacant lots or dilapitated shacks.
Unlike many other cities, Denver is succeeding in attracting wealth and population back into its urban core. If not for the health and vibrancy of the city, what other reasons might explain this? (and yes, I realize mass delusion outbreaks have been known to surface in various parts of America recently, but those are limited more to politics than home-buying).
I'm glad and so are my neighbors...none of whom have any plans of moving to Longmont anytime soon.
Aside from the inherrit racism in the letter and many of the posts, i find it offensive for all white people to be lumped together as anglos. As someone whose Irish ancestors were refuges from the Anglo genecide known as the potato famine, I would consider being called an anglo an insult.
Posted by Edmond on August 16, 2007 06:49 PMScott's right.
Posted by Stop the browning of the U.S.A. on August 16, 2007 07:19 PMI seriously doubt that most of the graffiti in Denver is being applied by illegal immigrants.
Posted by Charles B on August 16, 2007 07:35 PMCharles B.,
So, which group do you believe is responsible for the graffiti problem?
Posted by John II on August 16, 2007 08:41 PMThis exchange demonstrates the slippery nature of the so-called concern about "illegal immigrants":
Charles B: "I seriously doubt that most of the graffiti in Denver is being applied by illegal immigrants."
John II "So, which group do you believe is responsible for the graffiti problem?"
Living in Denver and dealing with graffiti on a routine basis, I believe most of the graffiti is related to gangs or taggers/graffiit 'artists' (such as they call themselves), who in this part of town tend to be primarily Latino.
BUT it is a big (and racist) leap to automatically equate any/all Latino/brown-skin with illegal immigration. However this is exactly what is going on. It is a routine tactic among GOP to take a legitimate policy issue and play to America's underlying racial tensions (think Willie Horton) and is just a whiff of the sewer we can expect in the coming year.
As to the exchange quoted above -- use common sense:...risking life and limb to travel from Mexico to Denver, trying to avoid detection, and you really think illegal immigrants are going to spend their time and risk deportation tagging stop signs? Even if you are under the impression that all illegal immigrants are criminals, tagging nets no $$$...it is a property crime, and no one would come 1000 miles to do what they could be doing back in Juarez.
Posted by on August 16, 2007 09:49 PMWhat an odd comment, 9:49.
I never blamed Latinos or illegal immigrants on the graffiti problem. Charles B. expressed a serious doubt about a certain group. I was just wondering who he believes is responsible for graffiti.
But, I find it amusing that you would say this:
"I believe most of the graffiti is related to gangs or taggers/graffiit 'artists' (such as they call themselves), who in this part of town tend to be primarily Latino."
And then immediately follow with this:
"BUT it is a big (and racist) leap to automatically equate any/all Latino/brown-skin with illegal immigration."
So, it's not racist for you to say gang-members and taggers in Denver are primarily Latino but it is racist for someone else to suggest illegal immigrants are primarily Latino.
This is liberalism's primary tactic: appear to be holier-than-thou by accusing their opponents of either racism, misogyny, or homophobia.
A similar tactic was attempted against me yesterday when I was accused of being a racist because I referred to blacks with the pronoun "they". Then, I was accused of racism again because, in an analogy about illegal immigration and health care, I said I didn't want to pay for Mr. Martinez. Then, I was accused of being a misogynist because I questioned Nancy Pelosi's intelligence.
This is what passes for thought by many on the left these days.
Posted by John II on August 16, 2007 10:16 PMJohn II,
Saying that illegal immigrants are primarily Latino isn't racist. It's an easily discernible fact.
But apparently you misunderstood the 9:49 poster. He said: "BUT it is a big (and racist) leap to automatically equate any/all Latino/brown-skin with illegal immigration."
He's saying that all Latinos aren't illegal immigrants, not that all illegal immigrants aren't Latino.
As for my "guess" that most graffiti isn't applied by illegal immigrants, first, it's just that- a guess.
I just don't think (in general) that someone in our country illegally would take the chance of drawing attention to themselves by committing such a petty and unprofitable crime as tagging.
So your point(s) are in fact, not well made.
Posted by Charles B on August 16, 2007 10:38 PMBut apparently you misunderstood the 9:49 poster. He said: "BUT it is a big (and racist) leap to automatically equate any/all Latino/brown-skin with illegal immigration."
I realize what 9:49 said. But, from what I've seen, no one ever claimed that all Latino's are illegal immigrants. That was certainly not suggested in our comments. So, what was the point of his(her) comments?
"I just don't think (in general) that someone in our country illegally would take the chance of drawing attention to themselves by committing such a petty and unprofitable crime as tagging."
I mostly agree with that statement. But, it does seem like illegals have become very brazen in the past few years. Remember those huge protests where they waved Mexican flags? And now they're asking for college tuition assistance.
Posted by John II on August 16, 2007 10:49 PMI didn't live in Denver or Colorado back in the seventies or eighties. I've only been here for about seven years.
So, I don't know what it used to be like, although I suspect a lot more peaceful and none of the hyperdevelopment we see today, simply because of a huge population influx in general.
Also, isn't graffiti a problem in just about every major city?
Posted by mytwosense on August 16, 2007 11:34 PMJohn II,
"...from what I've seen, no one ever claimed that all Latinos are illegal immigrants."
The original letter implies as much I think, but it either way your earlier point suggesting hypocrisy is invalid.
Posted by Charles B on August 16, 2007 11:56 PMCharles B.,
I just reread the letter and saw no reference or suggestion to all Latinos being illegal. And 9:49 was being hypocritical. If you don't like my original quote of him(her), how about this one:
"It is a routine tactic among GOP to take a legitimate policy issue and play to America's underlying racial tensions (think Willie Horton) and is just a whiff of the sewer we can expect in the coming year."
A few sentences earlier he declared that Denver gangs are comprised primarily of Latinos. Now, who in the GOP has said anything close to that?
Posted by John II on August 17, 2007 12:11 AM...with the exception, of course, of Mr. Tancredo...
Posted by John II on August 17, 2007 12:21 AMLIKE ONE SAID PREVIOUSLY, IF ILLEGALS PARADED IN THIER OWN COUNTRY AND DEMANDED RIGHTS IN THIER OWN COUNTRY, WE WOULDNT BE TALKING ABOUT THIS. THE BLACKS OF THE 60S ARE A FAR BETTER PEOPLE THAN ANY ILLEGAL OR ANY RAP BLASTING DOG FIGHTING IDIOT TODAY.
Posted by mae on August 17, 2007 01:09 AMJohn II, here's the passage that makes the connection:
"Denver has turned into a dirty, graffiti crusted barrio. The article states Denver has more people moving into the city than are moving out – but doesn’t mention that Denver’s sanctuary policies make the city a major magnet for illegals."
I think the implication is clear... but I'll let others judge.
Like I said, either way it doesn't validate your claims of hypocrisy..
Posted by Charles B on August 17, 2007 07:21 AMWho cares if it is legal or illegals in Denver. It is rapidly becoming a third world crapfest. Let us grab the popcorn, and watch as it goes down the tubes.
I wonder where the Mayor is going to come up with the tax base to support all these people with his ambitious social services plan? Not from me...
Posted by Dravur on August 17, 2007 07:37 AMHa, Charles B., you keep claiming my point is not valid even though I already showed you that it is. 9:49 accused GOP of racist tactics right after he claimed gang-members are primarily Latino. That's the hypocrisy right there in plain view.
As for the excerpt you provided, I see no reference to all Latinos being illegal. He's simply concerned about Denver's status as a sanctuary city. Just as 9:49 acknowledged gang-members are primarily Latino, the writer feels (correctly) that most illegals in Denver are Latino. So, 9:49 is lecturing others while making the same broad statements about Latinos that he just condemned others for doing.
Dravur said:
"Who cares if it is legal or illegals in Denver. It is rapidly becoming a third world crapfest."
Sadly, I agree with you. I love Colorado. But, what's going on with Denver? I moved to Colorado about 10 months ago from Los Angeles. LA is a mess. But, I never thought the same problems would exist in a smaller city like Denver. I can't believe all the crime out here. Why is it tolerated? Why are we ceding our city to thugs, miscreants, and illegals?
And what's up with that art museum? A thousand years from now, when archaeologists dig up this city, they will wonder if the Hamilton building was once a great building that collapsed or if we actually built something so hideous on purpose.
Posted by John II on August 17, 2007 08:26 AMI really think the DNC should be held in buildings on Federal Blvd..... that way the Democrats could see the "fruits of their labor"
Trailer houses could be used for overnight accomodations and Mexican restaurant parking lots could be used for their rallies!
What a GREAT idea!! What a great way to get "touchy - feely" with the ones they love.
Posted by A on August 17, 2007 08:41 AMJohn II,
You really should quit while you're behind.
Your latest claim is that the poster who you accuse of hypocrisy: "...claimed gang-members are primarily Latino.."
When in fact what he said was: "I believe most of the graffiti is related to gangs or taggers/graffiit 'artists' (such as they call themselves), who in this part of town tend to be primarily Latino."
Clearly there are qualifiers in that statement.
But the real issue is that you misconstrued this statement: "BUT it is a big (and racist) leap to automatically equate any/all Latino/brown-skin with illegal immigration."
To mean this: "So, it's not racist for you to say gang-members and taggers in Denver are primarily Latino but it is racist for someone else to suggest illegal immigrants are primarily Latino."
As I said before: "He's saying that all Latinos aren't illegal immigrants, not that most illegal immigrants aren't Latino."
Wouldn't it be easier just to withdraw your accusation of hypocrisy than to keep thumping the dead horse?
Posted by Charles B on August 17, 2007 09:50 AMJohn II (or is it J 2? Ha, ha, ha!!),
You are missing the point, as usual, because it does not fit your own preconcieved notions. The poster at 9:49 said that latinos are primarily the gangsters IN THEIR OWN PART OF TOWN, not all over Denver. Just look at Five Points, Capitol Hill, or Montbello. There, most gangsters are black. It would indeed be racist assumption to then say that all gang members in Denver are black. As I am sure you don't want to let yourself believe, there is also the problem of idiot white kids from the suburbs coming up to Denver to tag the place up, to prove that they are "hard" and "from the street" just like their favorite rap stars (even though the only street these little bastards are from is Sesame Street). But this would pop your little conviction that illegal immigrants are the root of all of society's ills, wouldn't it? (You know, this seems like scapegoating to me, a tactic used by hate groups far and wide. But you would never agree with them, right you little "saint"?) All you are doing is providing (pseudo-)intellectual fodder to the obviously racist mental midgets out there (like mae), and nothing more. Great job, fella!! We are so bloody proud of you. (-sarcasm-)
And to all you other whining idjits posting here, did it ever occur to you that other immigrants coming to Denver may be responsible for helping the white folks be in the minority (legal or otherwise)? Just so you all know, there is a large Mongolian community here too, along with people from different parts of Africa, south and southeast Asia, and Eastern Europe. What I want to know is, so what if there are more minorities in Denver than "sacred" (ha!!) whitey? You all have decided long ago to flee to the suburbs, so why should minorities even care what some moron from Littleton, Parker, Westminster, or (much less) Longmont has to say? You made your voice heard decades ago, so if you don't like it in Denver, well, piss off. I know a whole hell of a lot of white folks in Denver that are OK with minorities in town, and have no intention of fleeing to your precious suburbs. (Oh, I know, what a bunch of race-traitors, right?) You all need to quit hyperventilating for a while and take a good and objective look at what you are spouting. You may not like what you see, but if you do, then enjoy your squalid life in your hideous trailer parks, and keep out of Denver. We don't need your problems here, as we have enough of our own to deal with.
Posted by Whatever on August 17, 2007 10:13 AMCharles B.,
"But the real issue is that you misconstrued this statement: "BUT it is a big (and racist) leap to automatically equate any/all Latino/brown-skin with illegal immigration."
Didn't I already replace that quote with this one:
It is a routine tactic among GOP to take a legitimate policy issue and play to America's underlying racial tensions (think Willie Horton) and is just a whiff of the sewer we can expect in the coming year."
There's more than one thing wrong with 9:49's post. First, he lectured about referring to all Latinos as illegals even though no one made that suggestion. Second, he accused the GOP of racist tactics right after he suggested that Denver gang-members are primarily Latino.
You are letting partisan feelings interfere with logic on this point.
Posted by John II on August 17, 2007 10:25 AMWhatever,
What are you talking about? Have you read my comments on this thread? Where did I suggest this:
"As I am sure you don't want to let yourself believe, there is also the problem of idiot white kids from the suburbs coming up to Denver to tag the place up, to prove that they are "hard" and "from the street" just like their favorite rap stars (even though the only street these little bastards are from is Sesame Street). But this would pop your little conviction that illegal immigrants are the root of all of society's ills, wouldn't it?"
What on Earth are you talking about? Did you miss my comment where I agreed with Charles B. that illegals are most likely not behind the graffiti problem?
"There, most gangsters are black. It would indeed be racist assumption to then say that all gang members in Denver are black."
What? Why would it be racist?
Posted by John II on August 17, 2007 10:32 AMTo be fair, I should say:
Second, he accused the GOP of racist tactics right after he suggested that gang-members in his part of town of Denver are primarily Latino.
John II,
Ah, yes, deflection and surprise. No shock there. You have to keep up appearances, yes?
And the second point is YES, it would be racist, because it is WRONG. I lived in Capitol Hill for two years, and I was starting to assume that all gangsters in Denver were black. But all it took was a few reports in the newspaper about MS-13 and home-grown gang activity in the neighborhoods around Federal Blvd. and in the Elyria-Swansea neighborhood, along with my memories of Greeley, to remind me that not all gang members are black. Believing that all gang members are of one race is WRONG and RACIST. No matter how you may want to spin it. Sorry guy, but it is true. Still, I forgot that you do not know the difference between "tolerance" and "acceptance", so I am not surprised at all that you would demand an explanation as to why such an assumption is racist.
Posted by Whatever on August 17, 2007 10:42 AMWhatever,
I'm confused. What specifically did I say that causes your acrimonious response towards me?
"Ah, yes, deflection and surprise. No shock there. You have to keep up appearances, yes?"
Does that mean you're not going to address my question?
"I lived in Capitol Hill for two years, and I was starting to assume that all gangsters in Denver were black."
Does that mean you were racist? Or perhaps your perception was wrong. There is a big difference between the two.
"But all it took was a few reports in the newspaper about MS-13 and home-grown gang activity in the neighborhoods around Federal Blvd. and in the Elyria-Swansea neighborhood, along with my memories of Greeley, to remind me that not all gang members are black. Believing that all gang members are of one race is WRONG and RACIST."
Can you show me where I or anyone else here suggested that all gang members are black or of one race?
But, still, I'm not sure where racism comes into play here. Even you acknowledge that the gang problem is mostly concerned with blacks and Latinos. Why is it racist to acknowledge the cultural problems that befall certain races more than others? 50% of all murders (and murderers) in this country are black. That is way out of proportion to their actual percentage of the population. That's a serious problem that needs to be addressed. Is it racist to point that out? If so, your "tolerance" and "acceptance" is simply getting in the way of helping blacks.
Posted by John II on August 17, 2007 11:01 AM4:19,
No name spouting off...and no name!!
Posted by on August 17, 2007 11:22 AMDo my own homework on what? I'm not even trying to convince you of anything. I'm simply trying to find out your thought process. I'm beginning to think your caustic responses are an attempt to avoid explaining your irrational statements. You seemed to be engaged in a sort of verbal schiamachy: you're setting up imaginary targets and then launching into a tirade about them.
Posted by John II on August 17, 2007 11:29 AMJohn II,
I guess we just disagree about the implications of the original letter.
I can live with that..
Have a good day and welcome to Colorado.
Posted by Charles B on August 17, 2007 11:34 AMFair enough, Charles B. Thanks.
Posted by John II on August 17, 2007 11:46 AMThe thing called "whatever" is psychotic. Pay no attention to it.
Posted by truthy on August 17, 2007 11:54 AMLike I said, Whatever, J 2.
Although I will also wish you a very nice day in this great state.
Posted by Whatever on August 17, 2007 11:56 AMAh, yes, truthy the sociopathic troll is back. I have noticed that many people are ignoring you now, which is a good thing indeed. To you I wish for an anvil to fall on your foot this day.
Posted by Whatever on August 17, 2007 12:00 PMWhatever,
Your response is "Whatever". Are you a teenage girl?
Posted by John II on August 17, 2007 12:04 PMSo, J 2, your attack finally comes out now that I have made it abundantly clear that I refuse to play your little games? If this was a misguided attempt at humor, it has backfired. So, piss off, guy. You are nothing but a pseudo-intellectual republican puke. I retract my earlier pleasantry, and wish you your shirt stained by coffee, your car hit and damaged by someone who drives off in a parking lot, and that your house gets deluged by persistent Jehovah's Witnesses. And get the hell out of this state, as Texas would be more fitting of a jerk like you.
Posted by Whatever on August 17, 2007 12:12 PMSo, you won't explain your statements. You won't answer any questions. You respond with "whatever" like some MTV-watching, bratty, teenage girl. And you launch into tirades about imaginary claims that no one has made. Why bother posting here? Wait, I already know your answer: Because John II is insensitive and racist. Yes, makes perfect sense to me.
Posted by John II on August 17, 2007 12:25 PMOh, J 2, you comments are such biting wit!! (-sarcasm-) Keep on baiting me all you want; I refuse to play your stupid little games. And nice way to use your old standby, misogyny, to try to lure me back. Not gonna happen, old man!! You are infinitely more transparent that you will ever know, guy. Hell, you are even more transparent than your own percieved sense of intelligence!! But who am I to keep you from trying to bait me? Just know that it is an exercise in futility, one that your usual Viagra cannot solve.
Posted by Whatever on August 17, 2007 12:32 PMIn my neighborhood, where I have lived for over 10 years, we never had a grafitti problem unlil the last year or 2, when lots and lots of poor people moved into the newly designated section 8 housing a couple of blocks away. Now everything is fair game. Cars, trucks, fences, homes, cluster mailboxes, street signs, the back of the shopping center, all the trailers behind the shopping center, everywhere. Those poor people do include some Latinas, but are mostly African American. But the vast majority of the grafitti is the F-word, and some MS13 Sur crap. I sure hope someone decides they have had enough when they catch a tagger in the act, and pounds the spray-paint out of them. Or, if they get shot while tagging, good riddance.
Posted by RP McMurphy on August 17, 2007 12:34 PMRP McMurphy, I could say the same thing about sec. 8 housing and its effects on Capitol Hill. But I definitely agree with the last two sentences in your post; hell, I have wanted to do just those things for a good few years now.
Posted by Whatever on August 17, 2007 12:40 PMWhatever, you crack me up. What am I trying to bait you into? Answering some questions about statements you have made? Wow, that is really sneaky of me. How silly of me to try and have a discussion with you.
By the way, why is it misogyny to refer to bratty teenage girls? Would you call me a misandrist if I referred to bratty teenage boys instead?
Posted by John II on August 17, 2007 12:48 PMOh, I don't know, J 2, how about leaving gender out of it and say "bratty teens" instead? Besides, I know from other threads that you think women are unable to control their emotions, not as intellectual, and generally inferior anyway. And BTW, I don't have to explain or justify myself to you or anyone. Hurt your precious, little, and immature sense of superiority? I DON'T CARE. By Zeus, you are such a bleeding dolt!!
Posted by Whatever on August 17, 2007 12:55 PMOk, Whatever, I'll retract my misogynist bratty teenage girl remark and replace it with this: You talk like a bratty teenage human person of no particular sex, race, ethnicity, religion, hair color, physical disability, mental capacity, or sexual persuasion.
Posted by John II on August 17, 2007 12:55 PMOf course, you don't have to explain yourself. But, why wouldn't you want to? What are you afraid of? That's what is fun about this forum: picking apart someone else's brain to see what makes them tick while also examining and explaining your own positions. Isn't it boring to just make statements and not answer questions?
If I'm such a "psuedo-intellectual", you should be able to easily trounce my positions; tear my assumptions to pieces; demolish my arguments. But, you won't even try. How boring.
Posted by John II on August 17, 2007 01:07 PMJ 2, what is boring is your infinitesimal parsing of any statement you don't like, and that is why I refuse to play along. That is not "picking someone's brain", it is the hallmark of a weak arguer, especially when other larger statements are glossed over if addressed at all. Starting to get it, old man?
Posted by Whatever on August 17, 2007 01:11 PMNo, I don't get it. What did I parse? You said:
"Believing that all gang members are of one race is WRONG and RACIST."
But you also said:
"I lived in Capitol Hill for two years, and I was starting to assume that all gangsters in Denver were black."
So, I asked an obvious question: Were you racist when you assumed all gangsters were black, or were you just wrong?
Isn't it possible that many people assume all gangsters are black because that is what they observe. Their observation may be limited but does that make them racist. I say it does not. What say you?
Posted by John II on August 17, 2007 01:25 PMWhatever said:
"Starting to get it, old man?"
But, a few comments earlier, Whatever said:
"Oh, I don't know, J 2, how about leaving gender out of it and say "bratty teens" instead?"
What's with the misandry, Whatever?
Posted by John II on August 17, 2007 01:31 PMOh yes, keep on trying, J 2. Still not gonna happen. And it is misogeriatry I am picking on you with. Don't like it? Others don't like your misogyny either.
Look, all you would have had to say is; "So you want to be irrational? Fine, go right on ahead. Doesn't bother me. But have a nice day as well". Or something of the sort. But you had to press an attack, and look how we've littered this thread with nonsense.
By Hera!! You have to get a lesson in manners from an admittedly mean bastard like me? Maybe you could try to be a bit nicer and recognize when people are sick of you, and just lay off.
Posted by Whatever on August 17, 2007 01:45 PMSo, why refer to me as "man"? Why not, as you said before, leave gender out of it?
Again, I'm not sure why you are so defensive. Why won't you defend your own statements? If you were worried about littering this thread, why not just answer my question when I first asked it instead of cowardly hiding behind a childish recalcitrance?
Posted by John II on August 17, 2007 02:05 PMLook J 2, I am not necessarily defensive, I am simply SICK OF YOU!! And true, I should have used the term "nasty old fart" instead of "old man".
Why are you accusing me of being defensive, and then demanding that I defend my statements? Can't have it both ways, you know.
And why can't you simply recognize when someone is sick of you and doesn't want to play your boring games? Couldn't you just lay off, especially when a pleasantly-termed out is offered to you in the plainest way? Why do you have to be so childish as to demand that people play along with you when they have no desire to do so? Did you learn this trait from your selfish grandkids? Or have you always been insistent that you have to be the center of attention your whole life? I don't expect you to answer any of these questions (turnabout is fair play, right?), but I hope that you'll at least think about them for a while.
Now, I'll give this a try again:
Have a nice day in this great state.
You disappoint me, Whatever. You started out with much bravado and enthusiasm. But, you turned out to be an effete coward.
Have a nice day, pussy.
Posted by John II on August 17, 2007 02:40 PMHa! Hey, Whatever, before you go, answer this:
You said:
"Believing that all gang members are of one race is WRONG and RACIST."
But you also said:
"I lived in Capitol Hill for two years, and I was starting to assume that all gangsters in Denver were black."
So, I asked an obvious question: Were you racist when you assumed all gangsters were black, or were you just wrong?
Isn't it possible that many people assume all gangsters are black because that is what they observe. Their observation may be limited but does that make them racist. I say it does not. What say you?
Posted by John II on August 17, 2007 02:51 PMOK J 2, just for a second,
Yes is does make someone racist, since the observation is wrong and prejudicial. I was being racist and I was just as wrong too.
Now finally, what part of "f*ck you too" do you not understand? And I would love you to come to central Denver where I live and call me a pussy to my face. I will shove your walker right up your wrinkled ass. So, f*ck you too, selfish piece of sh*t.
Posted by Whatever on August 17, 2007 02:59 PMAnonymous threats of physical confrontation are hilarious.
Posted by Charles B on August 17, 2007 03:09 PMExcellent! Thanks for answering. Obviously, your observation was wrong. Well, actually, your observation was correct since you hadn't observed any other types of gang-members. Your interpretation of your observations was incorrect. Why does that make you racist? Were you racist in other areas? For example, did you think the black race was inferior to other races? That would be racist. But, I don't think you thought that way. Am I wrong? As for prejudicial, that alone is not a sign of racism. We prejudge all the time. The mind observes patterns and makes judgments based on those patterns. Rarely do we have 100% of all facts on everything we judge. And why would we want to? We would rarely be able to determine anything. The key is strengthening our pattern recognition powers, not subduing them. You constantly observed black gang-members so your mind determined all gang-members must be black. It's perfectly normal and understandable. It was not racist of you to prejudge and get it wrong. The same goes for anyone else.
Posted by John II on August 17, 2007 03:12 PMYes, Chuckles, quite!!
Posted by Whatever on August 17, 2007 03:12 PMWrong again, J 2!! I remember living in Greeley where damn near all gangsters were latino, and forgetting that was wrong. I think I have been using the wrong word here (ready for nuance? Steel your brain!!) as I should have used the word bigoted over racist or even prejudicial. But thanks for your sickening Mr. Roger's style missive on "prejudice", I have already forgotten it. It is bigoted to think that all gangsters are of one race, regardless of the incompleteness of an individual's observations. And being bigoted is wrong. And yes, it is possible to be both. Now, are you going to stop pouting and whining like a shunned 4-year old since I played along with your stupid game? Or do you still have to be the center of attention? You selfish lout.
Posted by Whatever on August 17, 2007 03:19 PMHere's the definition of a bigot:
"a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance "
How could you be a bigot when you changed your view after realizing the facts. This is what you said changed your mind:
"But all it took was a few reports in the newspaper about MS-13 and home-grown gang activity in the neighborhoods around Federal Blvd. and in the Elyria-Swansea neighborhood, along with my memories of Greeley, to remind me that not all gang members are black."
So, you analyzed and reanalyzed the facts and changed your conclusion. That's not the actions of a bigot. A bigot would obstinately declare, "I believe all blacks are gang-members no matter what you say". So, you weren't a bigot and you weren't a racist. Don't be so hard on yourself.
Posted by John II on August 17, 2007 03:34 PMNo, J II, not quite. It is possible to be bigoted for a period of time and then change for the better, just as it is possible to be anything bad and change later for the better. Example: Decades after the Little Rock school integration, one white lady who was in the famous pictures as a teen screaming hate to one of the black girls going to the school met with and personally apologized to the black lady now all grown up. That white girl was a bigot, hell, probably a true racist, but later in life she realized that she was wrong and changed for the better. Does that mean that the white lady was never a bigot or racist because she later had a change of heart? Of course not, it just means that as a lady, she is not either anymore.
Sometimes (all the time?) it is like trying to argue with a brick wall when it comes to you!!
Posted by Whatever on August 17, 2007 03:46 PMThat's a good point, Whatever. But, do you honestly feel you met the definition of a bigot that I posted? That girl hated black people. You just thought all gang-members were black. That's not exactly a stretch. Let's face it, a large portion of gang-members in Denver are black. There was some evidence for you to make your conclusion.
Even if you feel you were a bigot (which is funny because I think you know you weren't one), does that mean anyone who mistakenly thinks gangs are comprised of one race is a bigot? Or are they just misinformed? In other words, the mistaken theory alone does not prove bigotry one way or another. We need to dig further to determine what they are basing their assumption on.
Posted by John II on August 17, 2007 03:57 PMActually Michelle, I didn’t say there was NO crime in Denver in the 70s and 80. I’m saying that the city of Denver was a much safer, cleaner city before it became a sanctuary city. My letter is an observation of what I have seen happen to Denver since the mid 60s through the early 80’s when I lived there. Larry Kallenberger, executive director of Colorado Counties, Inc. stated, “Denver was always talked about as a cow town…But we’re all grown up now.” What he doesn’t mention is the Denver of that time period didn’t sport a brown cloud, rarely displayed graffiti, wasn’t congested with traffic, didn’t have the fastest growing identity theft rate in the country, didn’t have a gang problem, etc. In my opinion, the Denver that was known as a “cow town” was a much more desirable city than it is now that it is “all grown up.” It’s an opinion – take it or leave it.
As for the homeowner who bought Denver property that has increased in value by 300%...glad to hear it. I’m also happy to hear that you and your neighbors won’t be moving to Longmont soon. Please don’t. Now that Longmont is also a sanctuary city we have already absorbed enough of Denver’s illegal and overflow population. We are just starting to see some of the problems that Denver is already facing. Give it five more years and you’ll feel right at home here.
I'll take the ol' cowtown anyday.
Posted by cas on August 17, 2007 09:45 PMAll this profanity and it still gets posted???
Posted by on August 17, 2007 10:49 PMcas- This native Coloradan is with you! There has been very little that has changed for the better over my lifetime here.
Posted by Bumpskier on August 18, 2007 09:15 AMHo-Hum
Same crap different day.
Nothing dramatic is going to change.
The American people will still be the step -child of our own country.
Posted by later! on August 19, 2007 03:42 PMBumpskier:
I too am a native, and I wouldn't trade the Denver I live in today for the one in the 1970's.
Perhaps a smaller town would suit you.
Posted by Charles B on August 20, 2007 10:59 AMCharles B. - I was referring to the entire state, not just Denver. Silly me, I was thinking about the times when traffic wasn't so insane, the backcrountry not so crowded, and not so many idiots clammering for attention. Perhaps an even larger city/state would suit you better.
Posted by Bumpskier on August 20, 2007 02:02 PM