Bridge failure tied to abuse of highway users’ fund
The Minnesota bridge failure is a symptom of a problem that started more than three decades ago when Congress decided to rob the Highway Users’ Trust Fund for transit and other modes. The idea was to promote alternatives to the automobile, but it failed miserably. During that time, the percentage of trips taken on transit has decreased nationwide while auto travel demand has skyrocketed.
After three decades of this approach, now witness the result: Our infrastructure is crumbling, and we are stuck in ever increasing amounts of congestion, while the number of VEBs (virtually empty buses) has skyrocketed. When are we going to wake up? When are we going to stop spending 20 percent of transportation funds on modes that carry fewer than 2 percent of Americans? The absence of funding resources to fix tens of thousands of decaying bridges nationwide is a direct result of sapping the Highway Users’ Trust Fund for transit. Until we change our approach to transportation funding, I am afraid this is only the tip of a very big iceberg.
Chuck Erwin, Colorado Springs
Trickle down economics to the tragic final degree. Cut taxes, cut more taxes, cut even more taxes. From where does the funding come? Tax Dollars.
Ronald 'Ray-guns' * legacy
US Troops in Afghanastan
US Troops in Iraq
US Infastructure in Decay
* - Joan Baez @ Woodstock
Neo-Con, Nec-Con
You are a major Con
the only blame you can place on this is with the state as it is their responsibility to maintain the interstate highways after the ferderal government built them.
rick i know that you and the rest of your ultr liberal buddies hate tax cuts as you believe that means you might have to pay for some of the things you want free. here is a news flash for all. tax revenues are up at the irs even after the tax rate reduction [that is not a cut but a rate reduction that you take advantage of also].
Chuck, transit funding from the Highway Trust Fund began in 1983, which is hardly more than three decades ago. Transit funding has never gone over the 20% level in that time. However, you fail to mention that during the 90s over 25% of the fund was put into general revenues and used to pay down the federal deficit rather than be invested in roadways. Highways are currently funded at 85% of the fund. This is more of a result of our deteriorating air quality than anything else. We have to invest in other modes to keep our air breathable.
As for your VEBs... don't assume buses aren't used in other cities just because buses aren't used in Colorado Springs. 20% of workers in downtown Denver take transit to work, which is a great relief to our roads during the commute.
The truth of the matter is that we continue to build more and more roads but our funding source, the gas tax, has not been increased since 1993. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that if you don't increase the amount you're putting into the fund, you're going to get a lot less out of it.
Due to the multi-year economic boom, Minnesota too enjoyed an economic boom. Its tax receipts balooned and as a result the state generated a $1.8 billion budget surplus in 2006. Minnesota had the money. Since they knew all about the bridge's problems over a decade ago, I smell more than just a little neglegence here.
And by the way, Rick, since Ritter and Salazar want to keep the easy and safe to access energy-rich Roan and Vermillion out of bounds, 6 coal miners in Utah are now dead. Quite a liberal/environut legacy, wouldn't you say, Rick?
Posted by Hank on August 8, 2007 08:17 AMAt least some of you are interested in the real issue, WHAT ARE THEY DOING WITH THE MONEY?
definetly just the latest scandal to take you off the real problems, we are being robbed as a nation of everything, including our natural resources and our money. Until now ,we as people owned the infrastructure of our highways. As a nation it was part of our assets, until now.
Posted by farmer on August 8, 2007 08:30 AMThe answer is simple, money that is budgeted to any congressionally created fund must not be used for any purpose outside the original intent without a two thirds vote of the Senate and the House. The Highway Users' Trust Fund is just another in a long line of funds that have been pirated away by over zealous legislators for uses totally unrelated to the original intent of the fund. The most glaring example is the Social Security Fund which was established to be maintained jointly by employees, employers and the government. That legitimate maintenance has been violated and indeed usurped by Congress in ways known to only a few for decades.
It has always been amazing to me how the people are expected, even forced, to live within budgetary restrictions while the State and United States government's misuse and abuse of their control and power results in wasting the money they get from taxpayers on pork barrel projects and special interest agendas.
It is high time the public mandates that all taxpayer money be exempted from being used for these absurdities and, that laws be enacted requiring strict accounting for money Congress spends including open public hearings on all issues that directly effect tax raises on WeThe People, who really are the constitutionally created government. Those who we elect are OUR representatives and it is high time they understood their roll is to represent us not dictate to us what they are going to do with our money. This is government for the people, by the people and of the people. Lets take it back from those who think that not a good idea, that being the federal bureaucracies and the legislative branch of our government.
Posted by Allen Campbell on August 8, 2007 08:39 AMOne wishes that more people had enough courage of their convictions to put, even a screen name, on their comments especially when casting to them aspersions such as ultra liberal.
I don't know of anyone who'd regret or oppose actual tax cuts so long as a minimum degree of governmental functioning was maintained.I do however know many people- conservative and liberal- who oppose tax shifts whereby one segment of the economy benefits to the detriment of all others.
I suspectt hat the cost of building and maintaining even one B-2 bomber would repair and maintain lots of infrastructure and be more beneficial to our real security in the long run. I'm sure that the extremist cons might object to this view. Fine, let them prove otherwise.
Amen Patrick
Posted by Allen Campbell on August 8, 2007 08:46 AMricky,lay off the pipe.This bridge incident reminds me of New Orleans.For 21 years before Katrina the federal gov.gave New orleans money for fixing the levees.The dems instead used the money for there own interest.Just think how many people died then and non of these dems brought to justice.
Posted by Keith on August 8, 2007 08:48 AMThe problem, as I see it, has more to do with the right-wings "drown the government in a bathtub"/no new taxes mentality. The current governor of Minnesota is one of Grover Norquist's most ardent followers...
"In the past two years, Gov. Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota twice vetoed legislation to raise the state’s gas tax to pay for transportation needs.
Now, with at least five people dead in the collapse of the Interstate 35W bridge here, Mr. Pawlenty, a Republican, appears to have had a change of heart.
“He’s open to that,” Brian McClung, a spokesman for the governor, said Monday of a higher gas tax. “He believes we need to do everything we can to address this situation and the extraordinary costs.”
The vetos came AFTER he was made aware of the structural problems of the state's bridges--specifically including the I-35W bridge.
Posted by Here's your neglegence on August 8, 2007 09:04 AMI'm sure some more tax cuts for the richest people will help to rebuild our infrastructure. I sleep with a picture of Reagan.
Posted by Clueless GOP Tool on August 8, 2007 09:13 AMTony Snow tried to blame the Governor of Minnesota who he thought was a Democrat.
MR. SNOW: Well, again, the Democratic Governor of the state made the point that he thought --
REPORTER: Republican.
MR. SNOW: That's right, the Republican Governor, you're right, thank you. I was thinking Minnesota
Posted by Tony Snow is a douchebag on August 8, 2007 09:17 AMWe don't know what caused the collapse. Was it due to a lack of funds and maintence or was it due to design and construction flaws?
As usual around here, folks are more interested in slamming their political foes and justifying their own ideology. Reality be damned.
Posted by CL on August 8, 2007 09:20 AM------and Dorian Gray perhaps?
Posted by Allen Campbell on August 8, 2007 09:25 AMCL--
Way to move those goalposts! A tried and true Republican tactic. Doesn't matter that people died or the Republican governor knew that the bridge was unsafe while he veto the funding to correct the problem.
In the final analysis, it doesn't really matter why the bridge collapsed, because whatever the reason, certain people chose to ignore the problem for political gain.
That's the "reality"
Posted by Hmmm on August 8, 2007 09:26 AM4:48am
There is not one liberal in the america that is against tax cuts. But for that to happen and still be able to meet the needs of america like building new bridges the government has to stop spending billions on BS wars and lining the pockets of companies like Haliburton. It works the same as my bills, the more I spend and the more I owe the more I have to collect to pay my bills.
"In the past two years, Gov. Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota twice vetoed legislation to raise the state’s gas tax to pay for transportation needs."
Why raise taxes?
First of all, this is an interstate hwy and most funding comes from the feds (except when they threaten to withhold dollars to leverage a state).
Second, our incomes are already taxed at nearly 50% when you factor in every tax you pay. When is enough, enough?
How about trimming expenses for a change like a business has to do when funds are short? There's enough waste in governemnt at every level to pay for virtually every problem yet when more funds are needed, the first idea is to raise taxes.
We need more tax breaks, not increases.
Posted by KW on August 8, 2007 10:01 AMSo?
Don't you all realize that the infrastructure in Iraq comes first?
How is our Fearless Great Decider going to get all the oil out when the electrical facilities are shot to hell; and the pumps can't fill the pipelines?
How are we, the conquerors, going to get all our weapons, armor, and nuclear missiles lined up to go in and take over the rest of the Middle East, when the roads and bridges in Iraq are in terrible disrepair?
How are we going to ensure that our troops have sufficient water supply for all their future actions when the Iraqi treatment plants are not functioning, because of wartime destruction?
Don't you know that all these things have to be taken care of first? We are at WAR! GLORIOUS WAR!
Iraq, that's where we have to spend the money to fix up the infrastructure!
So, a bridge falls down up North in this country someplace. And some people get drowned, or hurt. So what? How are we going to nuke 'em back to the stone age, if we waste money and time worrying about some little incident like a collapsed bridge?
Stop complaining! Suck it up! Learn how to make sacrifices! We've got to WIN THE WAR FIRST!
Don't we?
A factor that must be taken into consideration concerning this collapse is the increased international heavy truck traffic which was encouraged by NAFTA. Before one scoffs at the idea please realize that a multi-state government commission was set up in 1998 specifically to address this issue of the impact of NAFTA along the I-35 corridor. The link can be found at:
http://publications.iowa.gov/archive/00002975/01/i35study.pdf
The study concluded that, "The I-35 Corridor's multimodal transportation hubs – where air, rail, river, and truck cargo converge – make I-35 ideally positioned to be a major route for what is expected to be increasing levels of international trade activity."
The study warned that, "Over the next few decades, about 65 percent of I-35 will require major upgrades, however the entire route will have a continued need for rehabilitating pavements, resurfacing sections of the highway, and providing replacements of some bridge decks. Bridge substructures and superstructures will also need to be maintained, requiring repairs to maintain the integrity of the bridges."
So it appears that not only Minnesota, but the Federal Government (NAFTA being a Fed treaty) had the responsibility to ensure the safety of all components of the corridor.
Posted by Trinity on August 8, 2007 10:10 AMHmmm -
I didn't "move the goalposts", I pointed out that we don't know where they are.
It most certainly does matter that people died, but the point is that we do not know the physical reason the bridge collapsed.
"In the final analysis, it doesn't really matter why the bridge collapsed, because whatever the reason, certain people chose to ignore the problem for political gain."
That's sort of what I'm saying, but we are already seeing this being exploited for political gain which is what it sounds like you are doing trying to pin this on the Republican governor. I'm not excusing the governor - if he's resonsible then by all means he should be held accountable.
There have been bridge collapses due to design flaws - the Tacoma Narrows Bridge is a classic example (try googling "galloping gertie"). That's not to say the Minnesota bridge collapse was due to design flaws, it may well have been due to lack of maintance but until we know the actual physical cause, going on political witch hunts isn't the answer and may cause more long term harm than good.
Posted by CL on August 8, 2007 10:28 AMto larry who said
There is not one liberal in the america that is against tax cuts.
you shoud listen to hillary talk about repealing all of bushes rate reductions and adding taxes to oil companies, who like anyother company will past it along to customers, and on and on. and dont forget john edwards and obama and should I go on?
CL--
Bridges with design flaws do not usually remain standing for 40 years and all of the sudden collapse. Certainly, it wasn't originally designed to carry today's kind of loads and I would agrue that a suspension bridge was probably not the best choice to make, but the fact remains, it lacked the proper maintainence and up-keep. I've seen it firsthand.
What really pisses the locals off is that there is plenty of money to build the Twins a new stadium, but none to keep the roads and bridges needed to get there in working shape.
And, don't get me started on Washingtonians and their bridges and viaducts and roads. If they spent half the money wasted on "studying" those things over and over and over and actually did something about it...
Of course, the day will surely come when the Alaskian Way viaduct is no more and those on the Eastside (read the uber-wealthy) will be unable to get into the city because of the poor planning/over-analysis.
Posted by Hmmm on August 8, 2007 11:23 AMMore taxpayer $$$ will probably be spent on finding and assigning blame than on redesigning bridges. As in most catastrophes, the cause is not determined except by hindsight. A forty year old bridge collapsed. It is the first one and even with inspections no one would be expected to stop using it unless there were signs of eminent collapse, not just signs of needing maintenance or repair. No One is to blame. This event should be an EYE OPENER, and in that sense, has true value and should be seen as the impetuous that may finally get something done. It is a shame that people died, but at least more didn’t. and time and money should go to fixing our infra structure. Yes a million people will say I told you so, but the said thing is that it real life it takes catastrophes to get people doing something. Look at 9/11, Pearl Harbor, the plague, TB, Even something like a poorly designed traffic intersection, there has to be10 accidents or a death even though everyone knows there is no visibility. This is human nature.
It is be the same with fossil fuels. People (by people I mean EVERYONE on Earth, all 6-7 Billion) will not use and/or invent/discover/develop new energy sources until we run out or the price gets higher. There needs to be incentive. Oil IS fungible! We can feel good by conserving, and paying more taxes, and etc whatever. But the probability is that fossil fuel will continue to be used at increasing rates of consumption until it is too expensive.
The same can be said about CO2, and other green house gases. They will not be reduced unless EVERYONE cuts back.
The sad thing is that most of the population of the world exists under governments that do not care if a few million citizens die, much less about the quality of life in the US. And these are the countries that are increasing their use of these materials.
The only thing accomplished by the US cutting back prematurely is that we are economically weakened, which is not good local or globally.
But I have digressed Sorry.
OH, AND, Larry said "There is not one liberal in the america that is against tax cuts.” If you really believe that there is no accounting for your other rhetoric!
Here's your negligence said ”"drown the government in a bathtub”"/ Where did that quote come from??
AF
The failure belongs to both the federal government as well as the state governments. Both fail to realize that the function of the government is to ensure the infrastructure is built and maintained. The American people are also to blame as they let congress and in fact greedily suck at the tit of the government, for social programs (Socialized medicine, welfare, etc.). The governemets main job is to regulate trade, treaties, provide defense and protection, and build/maintain infrastructure.
Posted by Chris on August 8, 2007 12:33 PMHmmm -
"Bridges with design flaws do not usually remain standing for 40 years and all of the sudden collapse"
But it hashappened. For example, the Silver Bridge in Ohio built in 1928 collapsed in 1967 killing 46 people:
At 5:00 PM on December 15, 1967, the Silver Bridge collapsed claiming 46 lives and injuring 9. The Christmas rush applied an extra load to the 39 year old bridge causing a cleavage fracture in one of the “eyebars”. This was followed by a ductile fracture near the pin. Unable to support the weight of the entire bridge, the south side chain also snapped. The structure only took about 1 minute to completely fall into the river below. An investigation, led by John Bennett, immediately followed the collapse of the Silver Bridge. The bridge was constructed of carbon steel, which tends to crack. Many cracks were found throughout the bridge among extensive corrosion. The failure resulted from stress corrosion and corrosion fatigue, two concepts which were not known in 1927.(1) It was also found that the flaw could not have been detected, even by today's methods, unless the bridge was taken apart and tested.(1) In addition to the investigation, “the federal government mandated the National Bridge Inspection Standards (NBIS). The new standards required periodic inspection of all the nation's bridges.”(3)
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/aschaeff/silver/silver.html
Let me be clear that I am not saying the Minnesota bridge failure was due to design flaws. Lack of inspections and maintenance are responsible for bridge collapses and may be the cause in this case, but at this point and time we don't know. I am also not saying that bridge maintenance has been adaquate or properly funded.
Now the US hating wing of the Democrat party is trying to help terriosts win the war by scaring the coward wing of the party.It works like this,the US hating wing of the party[the media] try to make the cowards think if we were not in Iraq our bridges would be safe.The cowards call their congressman and tell them to leave Iraq so our bridges will be safe.The US haters help their friends the terriosts and nobody knows.Except me!!!
Posted by An American on August 8, 2007 12:58 PM"The American people are also to blame as they let congress and in fact greedily suck at the tit of the government, for social programs (Socialized medicine, welfare, etc.). The governemets main job is to regulate trade, treaties, provide defense and protection, and build/maintain infrastructure."
Yeah! Screw that whole provide for the "general welfare" part. Those sick and poor people deserve to be sick and poor. Maybe they should move somewhere else if they want to be sick and poor. I mean really--what would Jesus care about them.
Posted by I got mine on August 8, 2007 12:59 PMAn American - thanks, you just provided a great (if not asinine) example of what I was trying to say.
Posted by CL on August 8, 2007 01:08 PMCL--
I really don't mean to belabor the point or agrue with you, but...
When the MN bridge was built, we did know the effects of corrosion and which materials are most effected by it. Certainly part of today's inspection process to check for that kind of damage.
I would add, that this probably did have a role it the failure of the structure. Anyone who has owned a car in the Midwest can tell you about the ravages of driving on heavily salted streets. It tends to eat right through most any kind of metal.
Not necessarily a design flaw in my mind however.
Posted by Hmmm on August 8, 2007 01:13 PMHow about trimming expenses for a change like a business has to do when funds are short? There's enough waste in governemnt at every level to pay for virtually every problem yet when more funds are needed, the first idea is to raise taxes.
We need more tax breaks, not increases.
Posted by KW on August 8, 2007 10:01 AM
Hey, KW-
How about we stopping flushing billiojns of TAX dollars down the toilet that is the Middle East...That'd be HUGE savings!!!
Whaddya think of that?
I'd rather the money (and the waste associated) be spent here, among those who put the money in in the first place.
ps- terrorism does not scare me
Posted by Grim Reefer on August 8, 2007 01:35 PMHmmm -
I could argue that the Silver Bridge failure was a deign flaw in the choice of materials used (whether they knew of the problems before hand or not), but that really isn't my point.
My point is that at this time we do not know the cause of the MN collapse. We do know that bridges have collapsed in the past for reasons other than lack of maintenance, even after they have stood for 40 years.
Because of that, most of the blame being thrown around (by both lefties and righties) on this thread clearly has political rather than safety motivations
Posted by CL on August 8, 2007 01:42 PMReefer--
KW will have to check with his siblings to see if that would be acceptable or not. That's where he gets all of his information from. One of them is sure to be an economist, so he's an economist-by-proxy that way.
My guess is that it won't be since it makes too much sense...
Posted by on August 8, 2007 01:45 PMMy motivations are strictly for the safety of my loved ones. Fueled by a certain amount of anger that the powers that be (be they left or right) would let this happen.
Until you've experienced the detestable mixture of fear and dread associated with trying to find out if your friends and family are safe in these kinds of events, it is hard to understand.
Posted by Hmmm on August 8, 2007 01:59 PMReefer - I would love not to have the expense of the war on terrorism. Unfortunately, life isn't that simple.
The good news is we aren't in need if raising taxes to fund it.
But even if we hadn't invaded Iraq, the funding for interstate bridges wouldn't have increased any.
There's no corealation between the two budgetwise.
Posted by KW on August 8, 2007 02:18 PM11:12am:
Did you read my post. Of course they want to repeal the taxcuts. Have you been living in a cave the 6 yrs. You had better look at where our national dept is. How the hell else do you think we are going to pay this Iraq war bill? I suppose you want our children and grandchildren to pay it. You damn Bush lovers better pull your head out of your "A" for a minute and do a little math. With your thinking I should be able to go out tonight and buy me a new corvette and a million dollar house and not have to pay for them. This is easy to fiqure even if your a republican. STOP SPENDING PAY YOUR BILLS OFF AND MORE MONEY COMES BACK TO YOU!!!!
larry - Tax revenues have actaully increased by a large margin since the tax breaks were enacted. They increase spending, which in return increases revenues.
Tax increases have always shown to slow the economy, drastically reducing spending.
Posted by KW on August 8, 2007 02:38 PMKW,even JFK knew that,unfortunately his brother the drunk teddy can't comprehend what his bother knew over 40 years ago..
Posted by bart on August 8, 2007 08:06 PMIt's still very early in the investigation, but:
Potential design flaw found in Minneapolis bridge
"Investigators have found what may be a design flaw in the bridge that collapsed here a week ago, in the steel parts that connect girders, raising safety concerns for other bridges around the country, not just those similar to the design of the one here, federal officials said Wednesday."
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/home/article/0,1299,DRMN_1_5664873,00.html
Posted by CL on August 9, 2007 07:59 AMCL - Why are you and I on the same page about this?
Stop it, your scaring me!
Posted by KW on August 9, 2007 09:34 AMYou don't know what "page" I'm on KW, you're just deluded.
Posted by CL on August 9, 2007 11:09 AMCL - Get off the sauce, it's much too early.
I was agreeing with you ya moron.
But then again, you're probably right. I'll never be on the same page with someone who believes global warming is all human caused and that the world is coming to an end.
Does CL stand for Chicken Little?
Posted by KW on August 9, 2007 11:40 AMWell there ya go KW.
CL can stand for whatever you want it to, it makes no difference to me.
Posted by CL on August 9, 2007 02:39 PMI got mine, you have nothing if you think that selfishness and material gain is the purpose of life. You sound like a spoiled brat who thinks what you believe is devinely inspired so you have the right to condemn others that don't have what you have. Not only that, you lack compassion for and understanding of the needs of others less fortunate than you. Those are attributes of a tyrants
Posted by Allen Campbell on August 10, 2007 10:07 AMAn American
You are so far right you fell of the face of common sense and reason.If you really believe the democrates are responsible for al wrongs and republicans are responsible for all rights you're deluded and worse, you have no idea how much harm has been done by politician's finger pointing and blaming each other while ignoring what needs be done for the people they were elected to represent. All of them, every bleeding one, be they dems or repubs.
Posted by Allen Campbell on August 10, 2007 10:25 AMHey Allen--
That was a little thing called "sarcasm"--I'm sorry that it went right over your head...
Did you actually read it?
Posted by I Got Mine on August 10, 2007 11:07 AMPoor KW doesn't understand that if you If you cut taxes and increase spending while simultaneously running a big trade imbalance, you have to get your money from somewhere.
Unfortunately for us--the money is coming from China. And, the day is coming when they are going to call in their markers. They are already starting to hold it over our heads...
"The Chinese government has begun a concerted campaign of economic threats against the United States, hinting that it may liquidate its vast holding of US treasuries if Washington imposes trade sanctions to force a yuan revaluation.
Two officials at leading Communist Party bodies have given interviews in recent days warning - for the first time - that Beijing may use its $1.33 trillion (£658bn) of foreign reserves as a political weapon to counter pressure from the US Congress. Shifts in Chinese policy are often announced through key think tanks and academies.
Described as China’s “nuclear option” in the state media, such action could trigger a dollar crash at a time when the US currency is already breaking down through historic support levels.
It would also cause a spike in US bond yields, hammering the US housing market and perhaps tipping the economy into recession. It is estimated that China holds over $900bn in a mix of US bonds."