Gay clergy
According to a story on page 2C in the August 12, 2007 Sunday edition of the combined The Denver Post / Rocky Mountain News, “An openly gay Lutheran minister is happy his church’s largest governing body decided that clergy in homosexual relationships should not be defrocked.”
Jesus indicated that the Latter Days or the End Times would be “just as they were in the days of Noah.”
But what exactly were those days like? We know that God looked upon the world in the days of Noah and saw a world filled with evil and wickedness.
But the world was probably not 100% Satan-worshippers.
The world was probably filled, much like it is today, with the assorted murderers, thieves, rapists, drunkards, liars, cheats, those who committed sexual immoralities (of which homosexuality is just one), atheists, false-god worshippers, and just “everyday regular folks” — all or most of whom thought that they really were “good enough,” or at least not “that bad enough,” and that God, if God existed (atheists didn’t think so), would judge their “goodness” against their “badness” on some kind of scale...and everything would be fine.
In the meantime, Noah and his sons were building an ark that was so huge and required so much time that the building of the ark couldn’t possibly be hidden. Some of Noah’s neighbors and relatives may even been used as hired hands to help construct the ark. But when it came down to it, even those who may have helped build the ark really didn’t believe the Word of God. They laughed, they joked; they probably referred to Noah as being a knucklehead, a fool, a liar, and intolerant — and they went on with what they considered to be a “valid alternative lifestyle.” And the end result in the future will be the same end result as in the days of Noah.
This letter has not been edited.
"Probably". this you get from an infallible source, the Bible one probably after another?
Noah probably didn`t exist, his ark probably didn`t exist and all the non-existent animals on it probably ate each other.
They were in the ark around 150 days, before, during and after the flood before the dove found some green that probably hadn`t molded in all that time.
And this somehow has to do with real people? Probably not!
Posted by Sharon B. on August 17, 2007 02:12 PMI am looking forward to the end days if they are going to resemble the days of Noah. I can finally smite my neighbor for mowing his lawn on Sunday mornings.
Posted by Sean on August 17, 2007 02:35 PMRobert wrote:
"But the world was probably not 100% Satan-worshippers.
The world was probably filled, much like it is today, with the assorted murderers, thieves, rapists, drunkards, liars, cheats, those who committed sexual immoralities (of which homosexuality is just one), atheists, false-god worshippers..."
But enough about today's priests.
Posted by shaupeen on August 17, 2007 02:50 PMRobert E. Forman is clearly insane, how else to explain the following:
"We know that God looked upon the world in the days of Noah and saw a world filled with evil and wickedness. "
You know nothing of the sort.
Time to give up the fairy tales Robert- what are you six years old?
Posted by Charles B on August 17, 2007 02:56 PMAs Bill Cosby said "Lord, what are you gonna to about the mess in the hold"?
One hundred and fifty + days of poop. Not enough shovels in all the Middles East back then.
God probably made the poop disappear.
Posted by Sharon B. on August 17, 2007 03:09 PMNoah was probably a liberal democrat coward and US hater that didn't carry an AK47 and hated the 2nd ammendment isn't that right An American. Oh, also there is this new museum that shows dinosaurs on the ark also. Ain't mythology great!!!
Posted by Mike D. on August 17, 2007 05:13 PMWith all the different Gods to choose from out there, it always bewilders me that so many choose to believe in the vain, vengeful God who requires adoration, worship and absolute obedience and calls for the deaths of anyone who doesn't obey his every command.
Personally, I prefer the kinder, gentler God who created life and gave it to us along with free will as a gift and not as some kind of perverse, sadistic, Russian Roulette test of our obedience.
Choose God. But choose a nicer God. You'll be much happier. And what God wouldn't want us all to be happy?
Posted by Thomas on August 17, 2007 07:32 PMThomas,
Well said!!!
Posted by Mike D. on August 17, 2007 07:48 PMHow about this? Believe whatever you like and let others believe what they want as long as it does not infringe on other's rights or break the law. If you don't like a church with Gay Clergy, find one that agrees with you.
Or, if you are happy with your religion, but don't agree that clergy can be gay, find another congregation without a gay clergy.
It's your choice.
Posted by Dravur on August 17, 2007 08:06 PMIs the letter writer auditioning for the job of replacing Ted Haggard? He surely could win the part. He's produced an empty, windy, and totally irrelevant commentary on a fairy tale from Hebrew mythology; though what that might have to do with "Gay Clergy" is beyond me.
However, the more pointless the sermon, the better it serves to dazzle the sheeple, I guess. And dazzling the sheeple, while shearing them thoroughly, is what the Je$u$ Bu$ine$$ is all about to begin with. And it's what builds "mega-churches", too.
Just remember, you want the cash, up front, out of their wallets; but you don't want "gays".
But did even that much devotion to sanctimony manage to get the 'workmen" on the ark, with Noah?
Posted by Old Grouch on August 17, 2007 08:45 PMYou can choose to be a scrub oak Druid but all that nude dancing around in the moonlight is tough here in Colorado winters.
Shoes are not allowed.
Posted by Sharon B. on August 18, 2007 06:50 AMThe Bible is written in an allegorical style. Make of it what you will.
Robert,
The mainline Protestant churches learn slowly that Americans will vote with their feet.
We each have to find our own path to salvation.
Thanks
Posted by James Jones on August 18, 2007 07:09 AMJJ why do you always sound like Ronald Coleman in a 1940`s movie.
Sporting events, path to salvation
Posted by Sharon B. on August 18, 2007 07:38 AMGod ,I'm tired of these religious arguements.
ooops, I just took the lords name in vane Isn't that one of the Ten Commandments?
So what do we call him ,Lord,God,Jesus,Savior,Allah,Jehova,Jesus Christ,( that's my favorite swear word),Our Father,Holy Ghost,whatever.
It would be nice if people could live their lives using common sense and knowing right from wrong.Why do people pay someone to tell them how to live their lives based on a book of fiction?
Organized religion is the evil in this world. It turns neighbor against neighbor. Each claims to be the one true religion.If that's the case then all of them are wrong.
Posted by Can I get an AMEN! on August 18, 2007 09:18 AMAMEN said:
"So what do we call him ,Lord,God,Jesus,Savior,Allah,Jehova,Jesus Christ,( that's my favorite swear word),Our Father,Holy Ghost,whatever."
Why do people use Jesus Christ's name as a swear word if they don't believe in him? Why don't they use one of the other "God" words, like Allah, or Jehovah or Budda when they swear? I would venture to guess this stems from outright hatred, prejudice, and disrespect of the people who believe in Christ. Is that right , nice , and adult behavior? LOL I don't think so.
If the Bible is a book of fiction than so is every other history book ever published because when all the witnesses are dead, there is no one left to prove the historical accounts actually happened. Uh....is that what all you Christian bashers believe? It seems so. .Read "Evidence That Demands A Verdict" by Josh McDowell.
Tell you what....if you will stop implying that my beliefs are foolish, I will stop calling you fools.
Posted by TEW on August 18, 2007 10:01 AM"Why do people use Jesus Christ's name as a swear word if they don't believe in him? Why don't they use one of the other 'God' words, like Allah, or Jehovah or Budda when they swear?"
I've been known to invoke the names of Cthulhu, Arioch, Odin, Zeus, Ra, and even "Bob". And all that keeps me from mentioning the Flying Spaghetti Monster is that the name is too long for a really good exclamation.
Posted by Just so you know on August 18, 2007 10:47 AMHere we go again, but I can't help joining in.
So this is the End Times? How many End Times have there been? I've seen lists of between 200-250 different "End of the World" predictions since the alleged life of Jesus the Christ.
"The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound. Children no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching." Allegedly this came from an Assyrian tablet, c. 2800 BCE.
Posted by Roger on August 18, 2007 11:31 AMLOL....good for you "Just So You Know". I bet you don't have too many people who are offended when you swear using the other names. Frankly, I prefer to mutter the names of inanimate objects like pickles or poop (or occasionally the s word) rather than the names of people. Or if I have the time, go scrub the bathroom.
As for religion....I sometimes have my own doubts and beefs about that. I don't believe Christianity is about religion. It should not be divided into little denominational pieces. I don't believe MY denomination is the right way to salvation. I believe that Christ is the way to salvation. That is why using his name as a swear word is so offensive. If someone wants to say "Oh, Lutheran!" or "Oh, Catholic!" or "Baptist!" or "Atheism!", go for it. But I know those are hard words.
Posted by TEW on August 18, 2007 12:08 PMSharon B,
Because I stopped going to movies in the 50's.
Posted by James Jones on August 18, 2007 12:10 PMDear Robert,
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your letters, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.
a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?
i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.
Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.
Your devoted disciple and adoring fan.
Posted by All religion is a mental illness on August 18, 2007 01:30 PMJJ, do you have a smoking jacket. If you missed all the movies since the 50`s you missed "Young Frankenstein". Now that is a real shame.
Posted by Sharon B. on August 18, 2007 04:19 PMI am a strict Roman Catholic. My husband is a Baha'i. Our consensus is summed up by the simple statement: Many paths, same mountain. The only obligation we have to the spread of our faiths is to answer honestly if someone asks a question. Otherwise we go on the presumption that each person is wise enough to find his or her own path. That is why Richard Grimes is such a great person. He states his path clearly and obviously has worked and studied to develop his beliefs. Time for the rest of us to follow his example.
As for gay clergy I leave it up to the individual denominations to make that decision. As another post so wisely stated, those who disagree will vote with their feet and find a church that matches their beliefs. Oh how I wish we could learn to accept each other and walk up that mountain in peace. I also wish I could buy a winning powerball ticket. Hard question is which of these two desires is more possible?
momma y,
My bet would be on managing to buy a winning Powerball ticket. The odds are better.
Posted by Old Grouch on August 20, 2007 04:34 PM