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LATEST LETTERS

Glad flag flap is over

Monday, August 6 at 12:01 AM

As a resident of Cambridge Park, I agree with our homeowners association’s decision not to fine the Hammers for their disgraceful display of the American flag (“No penalty in flag flap,” July 14).
The cost of defending their threatened lawsuit would have to be borne by all of our residents, whereas the Hammers would be defended pro bono by every far-left, anti-American special interest group around.
We can only hope that at some point the Hammers realize that respect for their neighbors should trump their juvenile protest.

Lange D. Schultz, Wheat Ridge

READER COMMENTS

What a silly, bitter, hypocritical letter.

Posted by conservative media on August 6, 2007 06:48 AM

Lange must be drinking from Bill O'Reilly's (phone- sex offender and draft-dodger) Kool-Aid pitcher, where he said, "dissent responsibly". "Responsible dissent" has given us the following "gifts": 9/11 3K deaths, Iraq-NAM 3600+ dead targets and sitting ducks, 1500 black folks dead (GOP waterboarded) in NOLA-Katrina, 100K dead Iraqis, etc. This crimes happened because we have a known felon (40+ yeaars AWOLee, deserter, and he is also guilty of illegal separation and discharge), Bush, occupying the Oval Office.

I served in 3 deployments to Vietnam and at no time, was I ever risking my neck for a flag. PAUL REVERE didn't gallop through "da hood" with the news, "only one son had to serve in combat". During my 2nd deployment, I didn't know my younger had been drafted and he was in the USMC. He was shot in the face during a NAM fire fight, and today he is blind, diabetic, PTSD, Agent Orange infected, and needs his legs amputated. Not once has he ever mentioned the word "flag".

Rudy, Mitt (Mormon mission), Allard (communist-sider), Owens, Cheney, Lottt (Ole Miss cheerleader) , Thompsons, Salazar (priesthood, screws black NAM vets), J-Loop, Huckabee, Tancredo, Chips Barry (GOP waterboarded Shawn Patilla-VISTA-AK), etc., "muzzled" Paul Revere. Also due to responsible dissent, 55% of the "soldier-draftees" killed in Vietnam (in-country) were black, while we comprised only 12% of the nation's entire population.

Mitt Romney is guilty of pimping and exploiting black men. When NAM broke-out, Mitt broke for his Mormon mission (dad in Nixon's cabinet). Black Muslim Muhammad Ali is still scratching his head. Mitt owes us some of his $300 million. Benedict Arnold Salazar (El Presidente), might want to share some of his $484K in federal farm subsidies with me, to offset the "7" years of arrears social security disability pay, that I'm owed, and he won't assist me in retrieving my "blood-loot".

Posted by 40acresandmymuleandNAMvetbennies on August 6, 2007 07:22 AM

I served in 3 deployments to Vietnam and at no time, was I ever risking my neck for a flag. PAUL REVERE didn't gallop through "da hood" with the news, "only one son had to serve in combat". During my 2nd deployment, I didn't know my younger brother had been drafted and he was in the USMC. He was shot in the face during a NAM fire fight, and today he is blind, diabetic, PTSD, Agent Orange infected, and needs his legs amputated. Not once has he ever mentioned the word "flag".

Posted by 40acresandmymuleandNAMvetbennies on August 6, 2007 07:23 AM

I served in 3 deployments to Vietnam and at no time, was I ever risking my neck for a flag. PAUL REVERE didn't gallop through "da hood" with the news, "only one son had to serve in combat". During my 2nd deployment, I didn't know my younger brother had been drafted and he was in the USMC. He was shot in the face during a NAM fire fight, and today he is blind, diabetic, PTSD, Agent Orange infected, and needs his legs amputated. Not once has he ever mentioned the word "flag".

Posted by 40acresandmymuleandNAMvetbennies on August 6, 2007 07:32 AM

I served in 3 deployments to Vietnam and at no time, was I ever risking my neck for a flag. PAUL REVERE didn't gallop through "da hood" with the news, "only one son had to serve in combat". During my 2nd deployment, I didn't know my younger brother had been drafted and he was in the USMC. He was shot in the face during a NAM fire fight, and today he is blind, diabetic, PTSD, Agent Orange infected, and needs his legs amputated. Not once has he ever mentioned the word "flag".

Posted by 40acresandmymuleandNAMvetbennies on August 6, 2007 07:32 AM

Conservative media: Preface I believe anyone should be able to do any thing he wants with ANY piece of clothe, but where is Mr Schultz being silly, bitter and mosat of all hypocritical? I see nothing in the letter that goes against his own belifs, no wonder all your postings are ludicrous.
AF

Posted by on August 6, 2007 08:13 AM

How is having one's rights defended considered anti-American? The 'leftist' groups have to defend these rights since the rightest groups are so eager to give them away. I find Langes statements juvenile and ignorant and very ANTI-American. Soldiers arent dying to defend 'some' of the Bill of Rights, or some of the constitution. They are defending ALL of it.

Posted by An American who cares on August 6, 2007 08:41 AM

Read the letter. It says it all.

Posted by conservative media on August 6, 2007 09:39 AM

Thomas Jefferson approves of the flag flap mandating that such conduct be allowed as America is a nation where reason is allowed to correct conduct in people whom others find obominable where in this instance I find the writer's conduct obominable and others find my conduct obominable when I relate that Jesus Christ is a spoke in the wheel of excrement, a fictional Jew with gargantuan feet for a sub-class called female to wash, from the "loins of David" unless his heavenly father had a penis. America's Christian Taliban is so ignorant and yet socially acceptable believing in the Bible's talking animals, proof of fable. JC is not even a spoke; he is a sliver sliced of previous gods with the same background.

Posted by RG, Deicide/Risen Ape on August 6, 2007 11:07 AM

40acres: PLEASE keep your facts straight when quoting statistics about KIA Vietnam. From the US Archives:

CACCF Record Counts by Race (as of 12/98)
Racial category titles are those used in the documentation created at the genesis of the file, ca. 1967

Race Number of Records
American Indian 226 > .01%
Caucasian 50,120 86.12%
Malayan 252 > .01%
Mongolian 116 > .01%
Negro 7,264 12.48%
Unknown, Not Reported 215 > .01%
Total 58,193

This fiasco killed too many young men period. At the time, young blacks comprised 11.1% of the population; so you are right in that a disproportionate number of young blacks died in NAM -- barely.

Please quit arbitrarily making up "facts" to support your arguments. It not only diminishes your argument, it diminishes the deaths of all young men in NAM.

Posted by Trinity on August 6, 2007 11:13 AM

40acres: 12.48 % seems a lot lower than the 55 % you're claiming. Are the rest of your arguments such as 7 years of disability just as fallacious?

Posted by on August 6, 2007 11:17 AM

Public Law 94-344, the Federal Flag Code, says she is a criminal. Pay attention to Section 4 (a):

To amend the joint resolution entitled "Joint resolution to codify and emphasize existing rules and customs pertaining to the display and use of the flag of the United States of America".

Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the joint resolution entitled "Joint resolution to codify and emphasize existing rules and customs pertaining to the display and use of the flag of the United States of America", as amended (36 U.S.C. 171-178), is amended --

SEC. I That the following codification of existing rules and customs pertaining to the display and use of the flag of the United States of America be, and is hereby, established for the use of such civilians or civilian groups or organizations as may not be required to conform with regulations promulgated by one or more executive departments of the Government of the United States. The flag of the United States for the purpose of this chapter shall be defined according to title 4, United States Code, Chapter I, section I and section 2 and Executive Order 10834 issued pursuant thereto.

SEC. 2

(a) It is the universal custom to display the flag only from sunrise to sunset on buildings and on stationary flagstaffs in the open. However, when a patriotic effect is desired, the flag may be displayed twenty-four hours a day if properly illuminated during the hours of darkness.

(b) The flag should be hoisted briskly and lowered ceremoniously.

(c) The flag should not be displayed on days when the weather is inclement, except when an all weather flag is displayed.

(d) The flag should be displayed on all days, especially on New Year's Day, January 1; Inauguration Day, January 20; Lincoln's Birthday, February- 12; Washington's Birthday, third Monday in February; Easter Sunday (variable); Mother's Day, second Sunday in May; Armed Forces Day, third Saturday in May; Memorial Day (half-staff until noon), the last Monday in May; Flag Day, June 14; Independence Day, July 4; Labor Day, first Monday in September; Constitution Day, September 17; Columbus Day, second Monday in October; Navy Day, October 27; Veterans Day, November 11; Thanksgiving Day, fourth Thursday in November; Christmas Day, December 25; and such other days as may be proclaimed by the President of the United States; The birthdays of States (date of admission); and on State holidays.

(e) The flag should be displayed daily on or near the main administration building of every public institution.

(f) The flag should be displayed in or near every polling place on election days.

(g) The flag should be displayed during school days in or near every schoolhouse.

SEC. 3 That the flag, when carried in a procession with another flag or flags, should be either on the marching right; that is, the flag's own right, or, if there is a line of other flags, in front of the center of that line.

(a) The flag should not be displayed on a float in a parade except from a staff, or as provided in subsection (j).

(b) The flag should not be draped over the hood, top, sides, or back of a vehicle or of a railroad train or a boat. When the flag is displayed on a motor car, the staff should be fixed firmly to the chassis or clamped to the right fender.

(c) No other flag or pennant should be placed above or, if on the same level, to the right of the flag of the United States of America, except during church services conducted by naval chaplains at sea, when the church pennant may be flown above the flag during church services for the personnel of the Navy. (See Public Law 107, page 4)

(d) The flag of the United States of America, when it is displayed with another flag against a wall from crossed staffs, should be on the right, the flag's own right, and its staff should be in front of the staff of the other flag.

(e) The flag of the United States of America should be at the center and at the highest point of the group when a number of flags of States or localities or pennants of societies are grouped and displayed from staffs.

(f) When flags of states, cities, or localities, or pennants of societies are flown on the same halyard with the flag of the United States, the latter should always be at the peak. When the flags are flown from adjacent staffs, the flag of the United States should be hoisted first and lowered last. No such flag or pennant may be placed above the flag of the United States or to the United States Flag's right.

(g) When flags of two or more nations are displayed, they are to be flown from separate staffs of the same height. The flags should be of approximately equal size. International usage forbids the display of the flag of one nation above that of another nation in time of peace.

(h) When the flag of the United States is displayed from a staff projecting horizontally or at an angle from the window sill, balcony, or front of a building, the union of the flag should be placed at the peak of the staff unless the flag is at half staff. When the flag is suspended over a sidewalk from a rope extending from a house to a pole at the edge of the sidewalk, the flag should be hoisted out, union first, from the building.

(i) When displayed either horizontally or vertically against a wall, the union should be uppermost and to the flag's own right, that is, to the observer's left. When displayed in a window, the flag should be displayed in the same way, with the union or blue field to the left of the observer in the street.

(j) When the flag is displayed over the middle of the street, it should be suspended vertically with the union to the north in an east and west street or to the east in a north and south street.

(k) When used on a speaker's platform, the flag, if displayed flat, should be displayed above and behind the speaker. When displayed from a staff in a church or public auditorium, the flag of the United States of America should hold the position of superior prominence, in advance of the audience, and in the position of honor at the clergyman's or speaker's right as he faces the audience. Any other flag so displayed should be placed on the left of the clergyman or speaker or to the right of the audience.

(l) The flag should form a distinctive feature of the ceremony of unveiling a statue or monument, but it should never be used as the covering for the statue or monument.

(m) The flag, when flown at half-staff, should be first hoisted to the peak for an instant and then lowered to the half-staff position. The flag should be again raised to the peak before it is lowered for the day. On Memorial Day the flag should be displayed at half-staff until noon only, then raised to the top of the staff. By order of the President, the flag shall be flown at half-staff upon the death of principal figures of the United States Government and the Governor of a State, territory, or possession, as a mark of respect to their memory. In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential instructions or orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law. In the event of the death of a present or former official of the government of any State, territory, or possession of the United States. the Governor of that State, territory, or possession may proclaim that the National flag shall be flown at half-staff. The flag shall be flown at half-staff thirty days from the death of the President or a former President; ten days from the day of death of the Vice President, the Chief Justice or a retired Chief Justice of the United States, or the Speaker of the House of Representatives; from the day of death until interment of an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, a Secretary of an executive or military department, a former Vice President, or the Governor of a State, territory, or possession; and on the day of death and the following day for a Member of Congress. As used in this subsection -

(1) the term 'half-staff' means the position of the flag when it is one-half the distance between the top and bottom of the staff;

(2) the term 'executive or military department' means any agency listed under sections 101 and 102 of title 5, United States Code; and

(3) the term Member of Congress' means a Senator, a Representative, a Delegate, or the Resident Commissioner from Puerto Rico.

(n) When the flag is used to cover a casket, it should be so placed that the union is at the° head and over the left shoulder. The flag should not be lowered into the grave or allowed to touch the ground.

(o) When the flag is suspended across a corridor or lobby in a building with only one main entrance, it should be suspended vertically with the union of the flag to the observer's left upon entering. If the building has more than one main entrance, the flag should be suspended vertically near the center of the corridor or lobby with the union to the north, when entrances are to the east and west or to the east when entrances are to the north and south. If there are entrances in more than two directions, the union should be to the east.

SEC. 4 That no disrespect should be shown to the flag the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.

(a) The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.

(b) The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water,

(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.

(e) The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way.

(f) The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling.

(g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.

(h) The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying or delivering anything.

(i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.

(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.

(k) The Flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.

SEC. 5 During the ceremony of hoisting or lowering the flag or when the flag is passing in a parade or in review, all persons present except those in uniform should face the flag and stand at attention with the right hand over the heart. Those present in uniform should render the military salute. When not in uniform, men should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Aliens should stand at attention. The salute to the flag in a moving column should be rendered at the moment the flag passes.

SEC. 6 During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should render the military salute at the first note of the anthem and retain this position until the last note. When the flag is not displayed, those present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed there.

SEC. 7 The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag, "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all", should be rendered by standing at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. When not in uniform men should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should remain silent, face the flag and render the military salute.

SEC. 8 Any rule or custom pertaining to the display of the flag of the United States of America, set forth herein, may be altered, modified, or repealed, or additional rules with respect thereto may be prescribed, by the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States, whenever he deems it to be appropriate or desirable; and any such alteration or additional rule shall be set forth in proclamation.

Posted by Gunny Bob on August 6, 2007 12:25 PM

Conservative Media ???????/
I still see no hypocracy, he really believes that. And Silly, where? Bitter? Who is he bitter at? He asked for respect.
I'm confused , or do you have a different meaning for these words in your lib-speak.
AF

Posted by on August 6, 2007 01:29 PM

GUNNY BOB,

in subsection A under section 4 is seems that it is ok under these curcumstances

"(a) The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property. "

maybe those people feel that there is extreme danger to life and property with all thats going on with the war and our civil rights being trampled. And are voicing that signal of dire distress.

think you moron!

Posted by Fresh on August 6, 2007 01:50 PM

Idiot Bob--

Did you fail English? Do you know the difference between "shall" and "should"? Or that "rules and customs" are not the same as "law"?

If she is a "criminal", then GW is also one under Section 4(g).

Posted by on August 6, 2007 01:53 PM

Nice "cut and paste", Gunny. Much of what you presented has to do with flag decorum and proper presentation. Note the word "should" throughout the long recitation. I find it long on rules and codification, but short on criminal sanctions for any actual or perceived violations. Take note of : "SEC. 8 Any rule or custom pertaining to the display of the flag..."

Many of the "rules/laws" have been abdicated via estoppal through common usage of the flag or representations thereof; i.e., many youth, and adult,sports teams wear emblems of the flag on their uniforms and do not fit within the "rules" of Sec. 4 (j).

The flag is routinely used in commercial advertisements in defiance of Sec 4 (i). And, as we all know, the US Supreme Court has held that the burning or desecration of the flag is protected under free speech.

I could go on and on about how the posting you presented has been rendered to the brink of obsolescence and remains only as "recommended guidelines" through repeated disregard and acceptance of use and decorum other than promulgated by our politicians.

I'm a proud veteran of military action overseas as are you. I am proud of what our flag symbolizes in this world. But, it's just that; a symbol. If someone wants to fly Old Glory upside down in protest of an action or actions by our government, I support their right to do that even if I might disagree with it personally.

Dissent and civil disobedience is more important to the well being and future of our great country than is "proper decorum" in the display of a symbol-- in fact, it symbolizes free thought and expression that is the foundation of our country.

Posted by Trinity on August 6, 2007 03:16 PM

Gunny Bob has been caught outright lying about Wesley Clark, on national TV no less, so why would anyone want to believe anything he posts here or anywhere.

Posted by conservative media on August 6, 2007 03:55 PM

So apparently Schultz is OK philosophically with the notion of a lawsuit to attack another's freedom of speech, but aghast at the notion of having to help pay for what he wants. Sounds like a classic Bushbot Republican, anti-freedom and miserly.

Posted by on August 6, 2007 04:18 PM

Hanging the flag upside down is not a protest, it's a symbol for distress. People should know what they are doing before they use symbolism to do it. If this person was in distress, it may be understandable, but for no other reason should the American flag be hung upside down!

Posted by Raygina on August 6, 2007 05:35 PM

Raygina -- Perhaps there are in distress over what they are protesting?

Posted by on August 6, 2007 05:46 PM

Lange if you are so glad the flag flap is over, why did you bring it up again?

It is not juvenile to protest in such a manner, what is juvenile, is your whinny attitude. Also, what if there had been a suit over the matter and her defense had been funded by every far-left anti-American special interest group. The defense of convicted felon "Scooter Libby" was funder by every far-right wingnut anti-American special interest group as well as many such individuals.

Gunny Bob you should refrain from attempts to act as though you are a legal scholar. You only expose your ignorance in doing so.

All you who protest what Mrs Hammer did need to grow up and get a life. If you don't like seeing the flag flown upsidedown, don't look at it.

Posted by A True American on August 6, 2007 07:51 PM

Gunny, and the next time you should see a portion of the flag sewn on the butt of a shapely gals jeans, don`t look!

Wouldn`t want you to be an accomplice to a crime.

Posted by Sharon B. on August 6, 2007 09:43 PM

Sharon B: How dare you insinuate that Gunny Bob would look a the derrière of a woman not his wife! That would be a definite Article 15 offense. Oh, the shame of the thought...

Posted by on August 7, 2007 01:29 AM

Mon Dieu! Tu parle Francais!

Posted by Gunny Bob on August 7, 2007 08:37 AM

Gunny, I'm afraid that the French word "derrière" has been successfully absorbed into the American English language and thus, can be used properly without obtaining fluency in the French language.

Posted by on August 7, 2007 08:53 AM