Government of, by and for the people
Frank Shuchat snidely suggests ("Show me the Dem money, 8/11/07) that Recreate 68 wants to recreate the “assassinations, riots and invasions.” I say snidely because no one seriously believe that’s what we want to recreate. Nothing could be more absurd. What we do want to recreate is the spirit of the 60s, of a mass political movement in which millions of ordinary people took politics seriously and worked together to make the system work for them. That movement ended legal segregation against African Americans, and improved life for millions of other people of color as well; opened up tremendous new opportunities for women in many areas of life; brought gays and lesbians out of a very deep closet; in short, forced America to at least try to live up to its own credo of “liberty and justice for all.” Anyone who lived through that time realizes how profoundly, and almost all for the better, that movement changed this country, and people’s lives. Anyone who has now lived through the Bush administration’s invasion and occupation of Iraq, and its assaults on civil liberties and human rights—with the complicity of most Congressional Democrats—surely realizes how necessary it is to recreate a movement that can restore government of, by and for the people.
This letter has not been edited.
It's true that the Democrats currently in Congress are proving to be a huge disappointment.
It's also true that the Republicans currently in office have been a disappointment for the past six years, and continue to be a disappointment.
It seems like too many of our elected officials are on the fringes of their party.
We need more moderate Democrats and Republicans who can stop all the name calling and finger pointing long enough to sit down and make some progress on the issues facing this country.
Once we have true leaders in government to put America on the path to propsperity -- then we can start trying to figure out who caused all the problems that we used to have.
Posted by Tree Hugger on August 17, 2007 02:21 PMDon't any of you hold your breath. because it probably isnt going to happen any time soon.
Posted by Fresh on August 17, 2007 02:38 PMTree Hugger
AMEN! I totally applaud your evaluation. The questions becomes: how do we achieve it?
Currently, the two parties have the general population radically split by focusing our attention on the two extremes of each wing. Read the posts in this blog and you'll find the opposing parties chanting such things as: "the Dumocrats want to lead us into full socialism"; and "the Rethugacans are stealing all of our liberties and making it a police state".
Until people quit accepting the talking points of each party as being gospel, and truly evaluate how similarly corrupt and power hungry the leadership -- the power elites -- of each party are, we're just going to perpetuate the status quo.
Neither party gives a damn about the people, they only mouth concern in order to get the sheep in their pens to get or keep them in power. The golden ring provided the power elites of both parties is too great for public sentiment to overcome via wishful thinking.
Perhaps; just perhaps, a massive public movement, not just at the conventions, but enduring until change is made is needed to shake up our government and get it back on track for the good of the nation.
Posted by Trinity on August 17, 2007 02:47 PM
Fresh:
Nothing ever happens as the result of pessimism.
Posted by Charles B on August 17, 2007 02:48 PMBecause everyone knows there are tons of books on "Great Moderates in History" Moderate is an adjective. It tells no one on what you believe. Unless you just believe in moderation, for moderations sake.
Posted by Dravur on August 17, 2007 03:30 PMDravur
Thank you Mike Rosen Jr.
Charles. What? Fresh has taken your crown? Damn dude. Your comment made my day. Seriously. Thank You.
While you and I rarely agree, I have always considered you the Pessimistic King. Nothing at all wrong with that.
Thanks again Charles. Enjoy the Weekend
Posted by bwr on August 17, 2007 05:10 PMThanks Mark! Really well put. One of the battle cries of the '60s was "RELEVANCE" - the search for authenticity, and living up to the truth, and to our country's founding credos.
The people of this country need to take things seriously - and not reduce the debate to petty partisan name-calling, which has become rampant in the last 7 years.
"THE PEOPLE" do not include the corporate vipers who shape venomous, absurd talking points like "Democrat U.S. Haters," and "Terrorist Lovers."
The cynics who demonize the '60s, reducing that period to "Manson, drugs, and sex," are just parroting the poisonous, misanthropic jargon of the Neocons who seek to revive feudalism and corporate dictatorship.
Posted by Stephen on August 17, 2007 05:43 PMbwr:
I don't think of myself as pessimistic so much as a bit cynical when it comes to politics.
In other areas of life I'm very optimistic and consider myself quite fortunate.
It's not that I'm a glass-half-full or glass-half-empty kind of guy so much as "what's in the glass?".
You have a good weekend as well.
Posted by Charles B on August 17, 2007 05:45 PM"We need more moderate Democrats and Republicans who can stop all the name calling and finger pointing long enough to sit down and make some progress on the issues facing this country."
I have to vehemently disagree.
There are no moderates. There are people who are swayed one way or another by the left or right on any given issue, but no real ideas come from "moderates". Witness the empty hall at the annual "moderate" DLC conference chaired by "almost" Senator Harold Ford Jr., vs the well attended conferences of the Yearly Kos on the left and CPAC on the right.
The middle is only the place where the two sometimes meet to work out compromises.
As far as name-calling etc. I think we all agree that it's counter-productive (though sometimes fun and often hard to resist). I would point out that there are civil people on the left and right willing to debate points rather than repeat ridiculous talking points and attack the other guy's patriotism credentials.
Joe Lieberman is endlessly, calling for "civil" debate, while out of the other side of his mouth impugning the integrity of those who argue against him (in the most civil tones of course).
In other words, it doesn't take moderates to solve problems, it takes integrity and a willingness to compromise.
That is indeed lacking these days.
Posted by Charles B on August 17, 2007 06:06 PMOk cynical. You and I both fit into that category then.
Posted by bwr on August 17, 2007 06:06 PMCharles B.,
"Nothing ever happens as the result of pessimism."
Really? Too bad Hitler never got that memo.
Liberals are living in a dream world stuck in the 60's.
"That movement ended legal segregation against African Americans, and improved life for millions of other people of color as well;"
The American black male has been on a steady decline since the 60's. Liberalism has killed more black men than slavery ever did. The Great Society has been a Great Disaster for blacks. Blacks now make up 13% of the population yet comprise 50% of all murders and murderers. Something like 70% of all black children are born out of wedlock. Black women now have double the infant mortality rate of white women. Talented black Jazz, Blues and MoTown musicians have been replaced with rappers who sing 5th grade lyrics to a simple synthesized keyboard beat. And anyone who points out this bad news is promptly dismissed as a racist. Are liberals proud of this achievement? The 60's are over. The Boomer Generation has been the worst thing to happen to America since FDR.
Posted by John II on August 17, 2007 09:29 PMAmad Jamal .....just turned 70!
Great Jazz!
Errr, sorry John II. Nothing gets past you eh?
Should've read: Nothing positive ever happens as a result of pessimism...depending on how you feel about the Third Reich. Actually, I think Hitler was pretty optimistic that he could rule the world.
And about this:
"Talented black Jazz, Blues and MoTown musicians have been replaced with rappers who sing 5th grade lyrics to a simple synthesized keyboard beat."
It's obvious you don't listen to any good "rap" music. There are some very sophisticated hip-hop artists out there. They are merely the next generation of blues and jazz artists, and like their predecessors, their contributions won't be noted by crusty ol' tight *sses like you until the next wave is upon us (which no doubt you will dismiss as simplistic and lacking innovation).
There is some "rap" that sucks of course, and that's what percolates up to the masses, but just as with their blues/jazz/ragtime predecesors, the truly great artists don't always get the fame when they're in their prime.
/end rant
Posted by Charles B on August 17, 2007 10:33 PMJohn, Nice observation. Liberal ideology has turn many things in this counry into inconsequential mush.
Posted by Hippies suck and so do hippie wannabes on August 18, 2007 07:08 AMCharles B.,
You're right. I don't listen to any good rap. So, I'll take your word for it that there are some very sophisticated hip-hop artists out there. Question: Do they play any instruments or do they simply rhyme to sampled music?
Posted by John II on August 18, 2007 08:34 AMWell, the name calling segment of this forum can't help dragging the level of discussion into the swamp of their existence because from that fetid place the objectivity needed to see that solid terra firma is a better clime does not exist.
That being said,( your right Charles B, some times it is fun ), focusing on the sex, drugs,rock and roll aspect and the hippieness of the sixtes is the work of those who were not there.
It was the biggest social revolution our country has ever experienced. Sure, there were things that happened in that time which can't be justified, just as there are things that happen in the here and now that can't be justified. But the here and now pales in comparison to the great forward strides that were made toward equality, fair and just governmental and judicial change and acceptance of new and diverse thinking about social change.
There will always be nay sayers blathering about anything they can't understand. That is what the sixtes tried to cure; the lack of understanding and the insidious scourge of ignorance that served only to produce intolerance for the new ideas needed to changed this country for the good and, far more good did resulted from those changes to the point where the little harm that may have resulted became inconsequential.
Today people are so wrapped up in their narrow minded, tunnel vision, selfserving world that they can't see the deterioration of the freedoms and rights that the people of the sixtes insisted on and were vigilant about defending.
Yeah for the sixtes, and I agree with the letter writers concept that promoting social awareness with the vehement and passionate insistence of the sixtes may just be the movement this country needs to escape the blandness of the generic here and now. By ushering in a new age of objective clear thinking and reasoned, thoughful and knowlegable actions we just might survive long enough to see, once again, the vibrant, happening and progressive country that it was designed to be by the founding fathers in the first place.
Posted by Allen Campbell on August 18, 2007 09:46 AMCharles B. 6:06 pm,
Condems name calling.
Charles B. 10:33 pm
Calls John ll a tightass.
Name calling is ok as long as only Charles is doing it.
Posted by Get Real on August 18, 2007 12:01 PMMr. Campbell said:
"Today people are so wrapped up in their narrow minded, tunnel vision, selfserving world that they can't see the deterioration of the freedoms and rights that the people of the sixtes insisted on and were vigilant about defending."
Which freedoms and rights are you referring to, Mr. Campbell? How about freedom from the federal government? How about freedom to keep one's hard-earned money? How about freedom to express one's view in universities without being fired, harassed, or threatened? How about freedom to live in a city without worrying about thugs and thieves? How about freedom to arm oneself without having to ask for permission from the government? How about freedom to pass on one's wealth to his family after he dies without that wealth being ransacked by the government? How about freedom to fund one's own retirement account instead of being forced to pay for someone else's? How about the freedom to choose where to educate one's children rather than be forced into a government-run education system?
Did the "people of the 60's" insist on those freedoms and rights? No. All of those freedoms and rights, all of them, have been under assault from the 60's "social revolution" and "diverse thinking" mentality.
Posted by John II on August 18, 2007 01:42 PMfrank,"child left behind".John,thanks for the fresh air.Obviously you work for a living and take the time to find out facts,unlike the liberal idiots on this post.
Posted by Keith on August 18, 2007 03:11 PMJohn ll,Bill Crosby tried to tell the truth about what was happening to the black community only to be censured by the democrated funded naacp.The democrats have been screwing blacks since there existants.
Posted by Keith on August 18, 2007 03:50 PMPlenty of Keith's posts are totally devoid of anything even slightly resembling facts. More like Bill O'Reilly, Michael Savage, Rush Limbaugh, Or Sean Hannity talking points that spew from that gutter he calls a mouth. People like Keith, who have tunnel-vision and see everything as either liberal or conservative, with nothing in the middle, are the biggest threat, just as people on the left who will not give any view but their own the light of day. Until this changes, our country will remain as divided as ever.
Posted by Beavis on August 18, 2007 03:57 PMGet Real got his panties in a bunch:
"Charles B. 6:06 pm, Condems (sic) name calling.Charles B. 10:33 pm
Calls John ll a tightass.Name calling is ok as long as only Charles is doing it."
Because I said:
"As far as name-calling etc. I think we all agree that it's counter-productive (though sometimes fun and often hard to resist)."
Poor, innocent Get Real...Whadda tightass...
Posted by Charles B on August 18, 2007 10:21 PMThe sixtes were a beginning of awareness John 11 and, I'm sure that most of the issues you cite came about after that awareness was presnted as a tenet needing constant vigilance. It was the creation of the me generation that seemed to erase that vigilance from the minds of people. It was focusing on self interest, as apposed to societal responsibility, that allowed most, and I agree with you, government intrusions that we now suffer from.
No movement, witness our own constitution for example, can foresee all the problem that may arise from social evolution. None of us has the ability to know what problems may result in a changing and evolving situation. But, the trick is to be ready, when confronted by oppressiveness, to prevent it from becoming an accepted norm. This is what that awareness was addressing, not a preknowledge of what may occure but, what to do about it when it does.
This is what people left by the wayside, this readiness to act was replaced by the tunnel vision and narrow minded selfinterest that crept into society while people were intent on material gain.
I'm not in anyway attempting to say the sixtes movement got everything right. I'm saying it's greatest achievement was to wake people up to the fact that government needed changing and before social change could take place, open debate and political involvement was necessary.
You can't stop an invasion of of rats by killing a few of them and, freedom requires constant vigilance. Constant reiteration of a problem is fruitless after the fact. Government oppression needs to be eradicated immediately, else infestation of tyranny is inevitable.
Posted by Allen Campbell on August 19, 2007 08:39 AMCharles-
I suppose its OK if it makes you FEEL better.
That's all you are after anyway, isn't it?
Was all this manifested in high school where you discovered you couldn't win an argument logically so you had to resort to name calling.
And then realized you didn't have the guts to say it to someones face?
Which brings us to what must be heaven for you-
Free reign anonymous internet name calling with hardly any chance of getting an ass kicking.
Do you post at Daily Kos too ?
You ought to, its right up your alley.
Posted by Get Real on August 19, 2007 12:51 PM"The sixtes were a beginning of awareness John 11 and, I'm sure that most of the issues you cite came about after that awareness was presnted as a tenet needing constant vigilance. It was the creation of the me generation that seemed to erase that vigilance from the minds of people."
Awareness of what? Sure, I'm glad legal segragation was abolished. But, what did it accomplish? We still live in a segregated society.
As for the "Me generation", wasn't that created by the same generation of the 60's? The same generation that realized racism was bad also wanted to disarm citizens, spit on American soldiers, condemn Christianity, attack the white man, and impose more federal control over it's citizens. Sure, they got a few things right. But, they screwed up more things than they fixed.
But, no one can argue about their enthusiasm. They certainly were passionate. So, if we have a nostalgia for the 60's, can we recreate their enthusiasm to get back our gun rights? Or how about march through the streets of D.C to abolish Social Security? Or how about we protest the Associated Press and Reuters instead of our own troops? Are you up for that kind of rebirth of the 60's? Or do you feel the next big thing to fight for is federal recognition of marriage contracts for homosexuals? To me, that just doesn't have the same air of importance as, let's say, the abolishment of the federal income tax.
Posted by John II on August 19, 2007 10:37 PMGet Real:
You claim all I have to offer is name-calling, so tell me, what have your two posts on this thread added to the debate? (besides cementing your reputation as a tighass extraordinare?)
Posted by Charles B on August 20, 2007 07:43 AMWhy not use the whole Federal apparatus to exchange insults?
Last night, on Channel 9's newscast, we got a glimpse of our "national security" as the likes of Jonesy would have it work.
Just "denounce" those who, you SUSPECT, MIGHT BE doing something that could be seen as "against national security". The Office of poison pen, poison rumor, and poison whisper - also known as "Homeland Security" - now has a website available.
Their spokespeople were on the air, to inform everyone that, "Things have changed". You don't have to worry about libel, slander, or such nonsense as Constitutional Rights!
They are now there to receive your denunciations, and SUSPICIONS; which you now can freely express by filling out their forms on the Internet.
Constitutional Rights, such as free speech, or freedom from warrant less intrusions, no longer exist.
You, too, can become an adjunct to the domestic spy department! Just go on the web; and fill in the blanks!
Don't believe me? Get to Channel 9, and ask them to put that segment of the 10:00 PM, Sunday August 19th News on their own website.
Posted by Old Grouch on August 20, 2007 11:48 AMOld Grouch
I missed that apparent enlightenment regarding the reinterpretation of our constitution that you referred to above. It sounds as if we have a reincarnation or sorts of the Nazi Youth Movement in the formative stages if we have moved on to anonymous reporting of one another with impunity.
Hitler found that to be very beneficial in adding to the security of the Fatherland. I wonder if we'll find the same benefits extending to our Constitutional Republic.
In the words of a famous American immigrant; "Ieyee, Caramba -- you got some 'plainin to do, Lucy".
Posted by Trinity on August 20, 2007 12:14 PMCharles-
My first post was to highlight your hypocrisy and the second was in response to your personal reference towards me.
There were also three questions included which you ignored.
I answered your question , will you answer mine?
Posted by Get Real on August 20, 2007 05:21 PMGet Real said:
"My first post was to highlight your hypocrisy and the second was in response to your personal reference towards me."
How is it hypocrisy if I admitted that I do it? Sometimes the shoe just fits...
As for your "questions":
No. No. No.
Posted by Charles B on August 20, 2007 08:45 PM