Inflated illegal alien numbers
This is a free country, so people can write a lot of trash. Such was the case in your Rocky Mountain Mews article “Another funds source” of August 14, 2007. Robert Rodefeld wrote that there are at least 25 million illegal aliens in this country. Who knows where he got that figure from. Mid air perhaps, perhaps from Congressman Tancredo, who does like to hype things up a bit when relating to illegal aliens. Perhaps with his nasty attitude Rodefeld is including all the brown faces in this country legal or illegal.
Perhaps he has been counting every one that has crossed the border from Mexico from day one 500 years ago.
His biggest exaggeration is the $125 billion that he claims are disbursed for these 25 million illegal aliens each year. Pulling figures from mid-air is easy to do. I would venture to say that the amount paid by illegal aliens every year for state and Federal income taxes easily goes beyond $125 billion. I could not even venture to mid-air guess the benefits that are accrued year after year by farmers and ranchers, construction companies, tourism, religious institutions, restaurants and about every other business in this country. However, I can assure Mr. Rodefeld that if he eats fruits and vegetables, if he drinks liquids, if he brushes his teeth with tooth paste and cleans his butt with tissue paper every day he too accrues untold benefits from illegal aliens that are in this country.
This letter has not been edited.
Ernest,
What did you use to wipe yor a**, before the illegals came? Are you saying they were Americas godsent???????
Whatever the numbers of illegal immigrants are, the costs to the school system and health care system are real. Go to a classroom in Denver and see the number of children that do not speak English and the resources that must be spent to "mainstream" these kids. Walk into any ER in the city and listen...there is very little English spoken there. This drain on these two systems by illegal immigrants is reaching the point of becoming unsafe and a disaster for the future of American citizens. I could post numbers here from a number of websites, but they are really meaningless because the conservative websites quote the costs as very high and the benefits as very low...the liberal websites quote the reverse. But when I walk into a Denver classroom, I can see the damage firsthand and I don't need to see the numbers to know that something must be done. The last time I was in a Denver area emergency room, I was absolutely shocked! The sheer number of people there that don't speak English and were there for non-emergency issues was incredible.
Posted by idk on August 18, 2007 03:26 PMThis data is openly available, I don't know why the writer thinks people are "pulling it from thin air". For example, federal census data or fairus.org
Just remember to cite sources, and this writer won't have a leg to stand on. The fact remains that conservative estimates put the net loss in the billions for illegal immigrants. That's money that could be used to help LEGAL citizens- how 'bout properly funding and taking care of our disabled veterans?
Posted by fiesty on August 18, 2007 04:09 PMIllegal aliens often say, "We pay taxes, too." By that, I suppose they mean sales taxes on their purchases. Did you know that it is estimated 40 percent of the economy of Los Angeles is done under-the-table? That means no taxes paid. Many Americans (mostly Hispanic?) have companies where they are the "subcontractors" on bigger contracts. That way the government agencies and businesses are technically free of guilt for hiring illegals because they just hired a local company. However, that subcontractor is free to recruit illegal aliens and falsify records, paying cash to employees and avoiding government regulation.
In exchange for the pennies the illegals contribute in sales taxes, they are a heavy burden to county, city, and state governments across the country. The latest Jefferson County School District student emergency card has a place where the parent can request information be sent to the home in their own language whenever available. We shortchange our own American students to spend wads on translation and translators for illegal aliens.
There is no way that illegal alien families pay anything close in taxes to what they consume with their typical large families consuming social services, "free" medical aid, and education.
Posted by Denise on August 18, 2007 04:35 PMJust check Mexicos own stats on this where 3 out 5 workers from mexico are reported to be in the United States.
Posted by on August 18, 2007 05:16 PMA simple source of statistics and a solution to the problem would be to look at all the cash transfers going to out of the country every day. Now look how much money it is and figure that half of the money being sent id being transferred by legal aliens or citizens. Reduce the amount further by disregarding any transfers over 10K first. Now that money is the amount literally stolen from American workers. It does not include the costs of educating the children of illegals nor the medical and welfare costs of their care. Now we know that the people who encourage illegal immigration for whatever reason will argue that they add to the economy. The common thought is that it is impossible to determine the actual costs.
We are not as stupid as they wish. What is the cost of having all social services and state forms printed in languages other than English? How much do the schools have to pay for textbooks and teachers for those who don't speak English? How much do we pay in our insurance policies to pay for coverage due to the calculated number of uninsured? How do we determine the taxes that are unpaid due to under the table payments to illegals? Can we add in the costs of unemployment, not just benefits but the lost lifestyles of people who cannot get jobs because they are filled by illegals? One way to determine this will be to enforce all the laws that prohibit employers from employing illegal aliens. The federal government has begun but we must enforce a stricter standard at the state level. Those who break the law by hiring illegal aliens should pay hefty fines for each illegal employed. Those fines should double for subsequent violations. It has been proven that when the jobs dry up the illegals will have no reason to stay and most will leave. If we are successful in barring them from welfare benefits they will have no reason to stay in Colorado. Just to eliminate non-English forms from all state agencies will make a big difference. It will be fairly obvious which people don't have legal status when we demand the proper documentation. (A real pain when I have to cover our grand daughter with Medicaid and have to pay for a copy of her birth certificate, my marriage license and her grandfathers and fathers birth certificates just to add the medicaid coverage for dental and eyeglasses for her). She is covered by our insurance but they don't cover that. I had to wait fifteen minutes to get a copy of the application in English and they had to refer me to a website to get a list of the required documents in English. They ran out of the English and I remarked that it meant there were more applicants who spoke English and that is why they were our. The woman looked around then whispered that they only ordered 30% in English and 60% in Spanish with the other 10% in various languages. They would re-order the Spanish twice before they re-ordered English. So we have evidence that illegals are receiving government benefits, working at jobs and sending money out of the country.
When we factor in ER costs for translators, a real need but how many would be needed if illegals had to produce ID for treatment or ICE would respond and require such documentation before the person would be released from custody. Medical treatment would be given, but the people receiving it would have to prove legality or face deportation. I'm sure their countries would be happy to provide it for citizens.
Three pronged approach is simply remove the jobs, stop the accommodations and benefits and increase deportations of those illegals who use such services or medical treatment.
We can begin the process locally and then force the federal government to do their part. Of course many illegals are obeying the laws and making their own way without being a drain on the economy. Since these measures would not impact them it should mollify the pro-illegals since they claim that all illegals aren't breaking laws or applying for benefits.
I have eyes. I have ears. I believe them.
Posted by truthy on August 18, 2007 07:07 PMHey Ernest-
Take a look around, how many is enough?
Posted by Get Real on August 18, 2007 07:08 PMMy state rep here in CO. quoted the number at 28 million illegals.
The way Ernest puts it, the U.S.A. wouldn't survive if it weren't for the millions of illegal aliens who invaded the USA after amnesty 1986.
Ernest, your the one pulling things out of the air.
Does anyone notice how the people boo-hooing about how we are benefiting from illegals almost always have a Hispanic surname?
I can only support the posts before mine one hundred fold.
Ernest, are you blind?
Posted by c on August 18, 2007 07:59 PMRACIST: Spanish word for someone who wants to enforce the law.
Posted by on August 18, 2007 10:37 PMAugust 18, 2007 10:37 PM -
You have to expect that since the basic argument of illegal alien supporters is that okay to break the law, as long as you have a good enough reason. With that mentality, the below follows as a natural result:
1. Those breaking the law in these circumstances should be excused from any legal consequences or repercussions (ie shouldn't be punished) because:
a. The reason for breaking the law is so "justified".
b. Repercussions causes hardship and suffering for the families ("tears families apart") thus is "inhumane treatment"; obviously, these families suffer more than the families of people who commit other crimes.
c. Others benefit from the law-breakers actions. (economy, businesses, etc)
2. Since law enforcement is so "obviously wrong", anyone who advocates enforcing the law MUST be a racist or inhumane.
3. Hard work, even when done solely for personal gain, is commendable (even if it breaks the law in the process) and should be rewarded.
Valdez....go to Mexico where you belong!!!!!
Posted by L.T. on August 19, 2007 07:07 AMValdez - are you here legally ?? Do you have relatives that are illegals? If you are here legally, then you pay their way, because I'm sick of doing it. My mother, a senior citizen, was in the hospital a couple of weeks ago. She has to pay for the ER and two nights she was in. She worried herself sick wondering how she will come up with the $$ to pay for it. Do you know how many illegals (they were illegals, they couldn't speak English) came into the ER while she was there? Plenty and guess what, they won't have to pay for those services and will walk out scott free. My mom will play plenty - where is the justice here? The illegal aliens should not have access to our hospitals, our schools and our jobs.
Posted by mi on August 19, 2007 08:48 AMmi
Why are there always people out there who will argue your point.?
Like Valdez, they have to be blind, deaf and completely without their faculties to deny that we are making HUGE mistakes when it comes to dealing with illegals.
AS I'VE SAID A MILLION TIMES, take the jobs away, no freebies such as social services, education, health care, no anchor babies to assure their existance here and they will stop coming ILLEGALLY.
We have to STOP being nice and politically corrrect to end being taken advantage of and stop the insult that law abiding citizens of this country have to endure EVERY DAY.
We have to change the kinks in our laws to protect the people of this country.
Growing up in this country there was never foreign languages posted EVERYWHERE. English was the language of this country. That was understood and people worked to learn the language and become an AMERICAN. People worked hard to become an American. That was their goal and they were proud to do that. They couldn't wait to be an AMERICAN.
Today, they recreate their old country here and we are expect to cater to their traditions. When I was a kid their traditions were kept alive in the home, but they were solid AMERICANS outside.
We are losing our solid AMERICAN traditions litlle by little. Walk into Lowe's for instance. EVERYTHING is posted in English AND Spanish. WHAT!? It's a disgusting pill to swallow.
Come to this country LEGALLY, learn our language and the way we live and become one of us and you will be more than welcomed.
STOP BREAKING OUR LAWS, RAPING OUR SYSTEM AND LAUGHING IN OUR FACES AS YOU DO.
We are tired of this and the issue is getting more hot by the day,
Lawmakers, quit sitting on your thumbs and start protected this country.
Posted by c on August 19, 2007 09:48 AMOOPs last sentence ---PROTECTING this country.
Posted by c on August 19, 2007 09:52 AMOne thing alot of people miss in the debate is,The billions of untaxed money they are sending back to Mexico.
They do not carry their own weight and cost every legal man woman and child an estimated $1,600 a year. For my family that cost would be if the estimate is correct $6,400 per year.
I laugh when our government tells us illegals don't get welfare housing,food stamps etc...
Technically they don't ,but as soon as they arrive here they start having "citizen babies" who are entitled to these services. Now since a baby can't go to the grocery store and use his or her food stamps ,who gets control over the benefits of the minor? The illegal parents. They know where the money is . It's in the babies. That's why they have so many.They got dad working under the table ,mom claiming no husband,and a relative watching the kids or they are recieving free day care so the mother can work.They got 4 families renting a house and all the others have " baby citizens" and on and on it goes until the "baby citizens grow up to be 14 or 15 and then they start having " baby citizens" and they start getting benefits.
Anyway you spin it they are bleeding this country dry. They contribute nothing.Anybody who believes they have made this country better needs a trip to the real Mexico and see how our country will look if we don't start deporting people.
Posted by Can I get an AMEN! on August 19, 2007 10:35 AMCan I Get An Amen!
Again, AMEN!
Posted by c on August 19, 2007 10:44 AMOK Ernest,
If these Illegal Aliens are paying income taxes how are they doing it??? If they are illegal, then they cannot have social security numbers which means they cannot pay income taxes period.
Before you spout off about your brethren, perhaps you should get your facts straight.
Free daycare? You mean FREE TO THEM; somebody is paying; I wonder who?
AMEN!
AMEN!
Posted by Lazy Chemist on August 19, 2007 11:32 AMHey, Ernest. Maybe you should visit this website: dontspeakforme.org and let us know what you think about what these Americans of Hispanic descent are saying. I know many Americans of Mexican descent that hate the illegals (of any kind) and what they're doing to our country.
Posted by Lainie on August 19, 2007 04:01 PME Valdez, you said “Robert Rodefeld wrote that there are at least 25 million illegal aliens in this country. Who knows where he got that figure from. Mid air perhaps, perhaps from Congressman Tancredo, who does like to hype things up a bit when relating to illegal aliens.” – my question to you is, what do you think the correct number is and who is your credible source? And if you don’t know, why are you claiming that these numbers are inflated?
Personally I don’t think the US should recognize children born to illegals here as US citizens (so called anchor babies). But if you count them too, it’s likely a lot higher number than the 12 million illegals mentioned years ago. The truth is no one knows how many there are, but I do know that what we have today is way too much already. So, right now the numbers are meaningless, the question is who is gonna do anything about it. Obviously politicians only view this issue as a potential voting block to kiss ass to.
The url for the website maintained by American Hispanics is:
http://www.dontspeakforme.org/
Feel free to click on it and read what real Americans of Hispanic Heritage have to say about the coddling of illegal immigrants>
Posted by on August 19, 2007 06:26 PMI did visit the website and I'm glad I did.
So many of us just assume that Americans of Hispanic descent approve of illegals--They don't! They are as fed up as the rest of us are.
The testimonials that I read are those of TRUE AMERICANS!
If you have not visited this website, I suggest you do.
Posted by c on August 19, 2007 08:39 PMErnest...what can I say, before you expose us to YOUR trash do some research like many of us have. The government estimate of 12 million is indeed less than half of the actual numbers that are here.
And yep, another surprise - it is costing American tax payers BILLIONS to support the illegals that are here.
Posted by on August 20, 2007 01:33 AMMy child goes to the WORST elementary school in the Cherry Creek School district. Why do I say WORST? Because almost 50% of the kids do not speak English, and their test scores are the WORST in the district. Should I just shut up and be happy that my child is getting about 1/2 of the education we are paying for? I don't think so. The schools are nothing more than Socialist indoctrination centers these days. If I could afford to do it, I would do 100% home schooling. It is time for a 100% moratorium on all immigration to the USA.
Posted by on August 20, 2007 08:19 AMI have been trying to get my 2 children out of the school they are in because of poor teachers and a administration that caters to hispanics.
Example: 36% hispanic,free lunches 36%.
They automatically get a free lunch. Then I watch them being picked up in brand a brand new lexus,or shiny new vehicles,their kids have all the lastest clothing on ,shoes that cost over a $100 etc...
A new school opened up 3 blocks from my home. I was glad because there is an open school access in my district.When I called about getting my children into the new school I was told no, the school is full.
This school is 5 times bigger than my kids school. So I went to the school's website and looked at the boundary. At first it looked like a normal boundary. Then as I looked at it I realize the boundary had a lot of shopping centers and open space,there is no way they could be full there is not enough kids in the boundary to fill the school. I was sitting there thinking, something doesn't smell right.
Then I scrolled way down at the end of the PDF page,I mean way down.
Hidden at the bottom of the page was another boundary. How can they have boundaries for a school 24-blocks away from each other?
The area is mostly hispanic and has 4 elementary schools within a block to a mile of the boundary for the new school.They have 4 schools in their area!
I thought schools were supposed to be built for the neighborhood they are in. Not only will the deny my kids entry. They will spend thousands and thousands of my tax money to bus in hispanics that don't live in the neighborhood. I find this outrageous!
When is going to stop? Catering to hispanics and letting American kids get a 2nd class citizenship education.My children are now discriminated against because they are white and legal citizens.
Posted by Can I get a Amen! on August 20, 2007 08:50 AMAnon 08:19 AM
This was posted on the "Unions" thread. Since it related to your difficulty with CC schools, I thought you might like it.
Anon 06:12 pm I agree with your assessment of public vs. private schools. I pulled my kids out of the Cherry Creek schools as they were performing at a mediocre level. I enrolled them in a private school (not one of the big names like Denver Kent).
At first they complained about it being too strict and difficult. But after a few months adjustment they became enthusiastic about their school and studies. There performance seemed to sky rocket.
My oldest is now entering her sophomore year at Stanford. My son is entering his senior year in high school with a 3.96 GPA , and has received preliminary acceptance at four different colleges.
I may be paying of school loans for years to come (while my tax dollars are supporting public schools), but it was worth every penny spent.
I just wish for the sake of others that we could get a voucher system established. It would help defer costs for students in private schools, and most likely encourage improvement in the public schools as they would have to compete for student attendance.
Posted by on August 19, 2007 07:04 PM
Lainie..4:01,
I'm with you!! That's a good website...I'm tired of being lumped together as a Hispanic. We
generational Americans from Spanish descent, are THE HISPANICS.. People from MEXICO are MEXICANS..How are is this to understand? Their holiday is..SEPT.16th..
The Mexican Independence Day..not Cinco De Mayo.
Okay let's give Mr.Valdez the benefit of the doubt. When trying to estimate how many illegals,put one hand over one of your eyes.
Is 12.5 million a better number for you Mr. Valdez?
Posted by Can I get an AMEN! on August 20, 2007 04:52 PMI was an illegal immigrant, but I went back to Mexico and came into America with a green card.
Now I say shut the door on illegal immigration! And put tight limits on legal immigrants too.
There are only so many jobs to go around.
Posted by Hector Gonzales on August 22, 2007 01:44 PM