It’s Schaffer who’s wasting taxpayers’ money
What would Bob Schaffer propose educators do with students during the “non-essential” passing periods? (“Paying for hall time causes stir/Changing classes not part of school day, official says,” Aug. 14.) The students are in school; they have to have time to go from one class to the next, especially in the high school environment. Not counting passing time as a real-time, in-school activity is not feasible and a ridiculous issue to address.
As an educator, I urge Schaffer to consider increasing funding for major issues, e.g., improving reading scores in the areas of analysis and comprehension and improving students’ ability to write coherent responses to questions and prompts given in class and on CSAP tests.
Educators are not wasting the taxpayers’ money. However, legislators sniveling about minor issues do waste the taxpayers’ hard-earned dollars. Give us a break!
Larry Langley, Elizabeth
please tell me how more money will improve reading scores or writing ability? I do believe its motovation that can do that and not money.
please dont respond that you need more money for better teachers. if that is the only response you have then lets get rid of the teachers around today and get really qualified one. i keep hearing the teachers unions always talking of how qualified their members are. it is also the unions that hold down wages as they bargain for everyone on the same level, so the best and the worst all get the same pay.
Was the letter about more money for teachers?
Posted by Sharon B. on August 24, 2007 06:29 AMWell duuuuh! Of coarse they all get the same pay level. Thats what socialism says. Every one is equal and entitled to the same. You think that the social engineers are going to let some one more qualified then them get more compensation. Pay for performance in thier minds is akin to racism.
Why should they (the union) expect any form of quality in thier work. After all do they not teach that every one is equal and no one is better or worse then they next person. In fact they should get more money for taking time off. After all they mold and form the shape of our future generations, right?
Posted by on August 24, 2007 06:33 AMActually, Educators waste a HUGE amount of taxpayers coin. So, her answer is... more coin. Sometime, take a look at the bloated salaries of the district employees and the number of totally useless bureaucrats on the payroll . Then go look at some of the private montessori schools and see how they operate. Good Teachers, small staff and students that can actually think. And much cheaper than the public school cost.
Money isn't the answer, it is the problem.
Posted by Dravur on August 24, 2007 07:11 AMIn my kids' district, the HS just changed their class schedule for the THIRD time in four years. As part of the change, passing periods were increased from 5 minutes to 10. They were originally reduced from 7 minutes because passing period time is primetime for student fights.
The Principal's excuse for increasing the passing period? The state of Colorado counts passing time as instructional time. The last class schedule had longer lunch periods which are not counted as instructional time, thus the school was not in compliance with state requirements for total instructional minutes.
Now, the fact that no teacher has time to tutor or mentor during the passing periods, but quite a few offered extra assistance during the lunch periods doesn't seem to matter at all.
So those passing periods matter - ALthough who knows what your child is learning during a passing period!
Posted by Marie on August 24, 2007 07:15 AMMy blog posting for yesterday is about this exact conversation:
Education: More of the same isn't the answer
On Tuesday, a couple of local radio talk show guys (Caplis and Silverman) were discussing the recent move by some Colorado school districts to start the school year a week or ten days earlier, presumably to increase standardized test scores.
I wrote a note to the talk show, which follows, but then also happened to see the following interesting article which says that 25% of Americans read no books last year:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070821/ap_on_re_us/reading_habits_ap_poll
It struck me that this sort of news is another reason it's not surprising to see American K-12 educational performance lag behind other countries (not that I know whether people elsewhere read more.)
Digging into the details of the above article, I note that a significant percentage of the people who do read are older, i.e. too old to be involved with the education of a young person. Furthermore, and to no surprise, a large percentage of those who read no books in the past year are "less educated, lower income, minorities..." In other words, the people whose children are doing worst by educational measurement standards are apparently completely unable or unwilling to be of any help in their children's education, or even in their children's interest in learning.
This fits in nicely to the point I had made to the radio guys even before finding the reading news:
Hi guys,
I would suggest that just as increased expenditures on public education have not helped improve outcomes, more months in school won't either.
The problem with our children's educational performance has to do more than anything with the lack of involvement with parents. It's much more about our culture and the kids' home environment than about anything a school can do.
Also, there's a lot more to life, especially for a child, than being inside a building. Childhood is for learning all sorts of things, not just things in books. It's also for play and just enjoying life. Making school years longer not only won't help kids' test scores, but it will also harm the beauty of childhood.
Posted by Ross Kaminsky on August 24, 2007 07:16 AMMy child's school has an early release day every week.It cuts 1 hour and 15 mins. one day per week. I added the time up once and for the entire school year it added up to 2 weeks time missed for releasing students early one day a week.Add that to the 2 weeks in winter,one week for spring break,plus the numerous holidays and teacher comp days,and teacher work days. I think they kids ended up missing roughly 7-9 weeks of school .That's about 2 months.
So really in school time they only have 8 months of school instead of 10.
This early releasr day has always baffled me. It is a waste of good school time. You have the kid in the classroom why take away 1 hour and 15 mins per week from the classroom? I know it may not seem like much but adds up over time.
Posted by Can I get an AMEN! on August 24, 2007 07:48 AMMr. Langley, if people thought that more money for teachers would help improve education, you would have it already. But they don't.
We have plenty of evidence that teachers think that more money would help. We have plenty of evidence that college educated parents are more likely to have children who go to college. We have plenty of evidence that students who care about learning will learn more. But we do not seem to have empirical evidence that giving teachers more money improves teaching. We have no evidence that teaching "relevant" topics motivates children to learn the basics. We have no evidence that masses of children who get taught critical thinking skills actually solve problems better than children who don't.
I remember seeing a letter from a teacher 25 years ago decrying the call for vouchers. He said that the issue is a matter of trust. He was right. The public doesn't trust educators to do the job. That is why you get hair-brained schemes like not paying for passing periods.
I'm not blaming teachers, although others do. My theory is that by turning the responsibility for education over to professionals we have relieved the parents of responsibility. And it isn't working.
Posted by Yaakov Watkins on August 24, 2007 07:49 AM"As an educator, I urge Schaffer to consider increasing funding for..."
When is it ever enough? Never, right? Its never enough. Never.
Posted by Hank on August 24, 2007 07:52 AMI have been fighting to get my 2nd grader skipped to 3 grade this year. The first denial letter said, my request was denied because even though she is ahead of the 2nd grade curriculum she would only be entering 3rd grade in the middle of 3rd grade academically.Stupid nonsense.
I appealed and was denied again because they think every student should follow the pathway of learning. Which means she should go through 2nd grade and relearn everything she already knows.Another year wasted.She knew the whole curriculum in 1st grade.
Meanwhile they are passing and passing students into the next grade not even working at the grade level they just were passed from.
The school claims it's the parents lack of involvement that the children are not learning.
BULLCRAP!!
My husband and I have always been there for our children. I have taught them at home ,to supplement what they are not getting in school.The curriculum is so watered down a retarded person could teach it.
The school doesn't want parents who want their kids educated at the child's level. They retaliate against the parents and child. They want parents who will sit down ,shut up, and say yes to every assinine decision they make.
Those are the parents the schools are looking for.Parents who accept the curriculum and don't challenge your child.
They want parents who " stay within the lines" just like the "stay within the lines education" they are teaching ,( if you could call it that ) the children.
Posted by Can I get an AMEN! on August 24, 2007 08:24 AMDo students carry all of their books to every class and are they magically transported from one class to another without any time involved? Another stupid money saving scheme from a guy who wants to eliminate public schools altogether.
I read Mr. Langley's letter several times and not ONCE did he mention more money for teachers.
Posted by Stan Broyles on August 24, 2007 09:26 AM"Give us a break" Langley.
It appears you have been given a break. Paying for students passing from class to class.
Schaffer is correct on this issue. Nothing is being taught during this time and it should not be consider education time.
Langley must be too educated to understand this concept!!
Money for not teaching....GET REAL!
This is one time that a politican is CORRECT..
Not you Langley!!
Stan,
What would you call this? "As an educator, I urge Schaffer to consider increasing funding for major issues, e.g". Langly does call for more money for educators. How do believe that his issues are going to be taught, through osmosis? Each and every time an educator calls for more funding, then they mean more funding in their pocket. The education system is not run by the parents, it is run by a monopolistic union hellbent on getting it's members more money for doing less work.
That sickens me.
Posted by Dave on August 24, 2007 11:49 AMStan,
What would you call this? "As an educator, I urge Schaffer to consider increasing funding for major issues, e.g". Langly does call for more money for educators. How do believe that his issues are going to be taught, through osmosis? Each and every time an educator calls for more funding, then they mean more funding in their pocket. The education system is not run by the parents, it is run by a monopolistic union hellbent on getting it's members more money for doing less work.
That sickens me.
Posted by Dave on August 24, 2007 11:51 AMDave, 11:51: "The education system is not run by the parents, it is run by a monopolistic union hellbent on getting it's members more money for doing less work."
What do you mean, "run by the parents"? Are you under the impression you could get any group of concerned parents to agree on virtually anything...from flavor of pudding in the lunch room up to Sex Education?
What you *really* mean, I'll bet, is you want the schools run by you and possibly a few like minded parents.
Public schools host a vast and diverse body of students from many different backgrounds - poor, rich; liberal,conservative; etc, etc. They have a damn hard job trying to please everybody.
Posted by Tim on August 24, 2007 12:05 PMDave,
I read Mr. Langley's letter again to see if I missed something. Apparently, you are reading between the lines. The way I read the letter he appears to be requesting tools to assist in education. This could make his job easier, of course.
To me, the problems faced by educators today seem to be more centered on learning the English language. When I went to school, text books were written and taught in English, which everyone understood. Today, it is more of a baby sitting service for some parents who expect the teachers to teach their kids all of the things they are too lazy to do themselves.
Posted by Stan Broyles on August 24, 2007 12:58 PMNEA is the disease
alternative schooling is the cure
Tim:--
"They have a damn hard job trying to please everybody."
Reading the majority of these posts is appears that a major underlying complaint throughout is that there is too much pleasing, and not enough teaching going on. Perhaps dropping the quest to fund the "new, improved" methods of teaching and returning to, first, teaching a solid fundamental approach to reading, writing and math would meet with a more universal approval by parents.
"Relevant topics" and social skills seem to get more attention than instilling solid skills, self discipline and learning habits receive. Many of the private schools work with smaller budgets, administrations and support staff. Yet their students scores on the ACTs, SATs, etc., are usually superior. More self discipline is nurtured, even demanded along with a solid understanding of the basic academic subjects, of students in private schools.
Money is not the answer for most of the "shortcomings" in public schools. But, in one manner or another, that's what is always given as the answer to bolster mediocre results.
Posted by Trinity on August 24, 2007 03:25 PMTrinity, You hit the nail on the head.If the schools would teach a solid Core Knowledge Curriculum instead of coming up with " New and Improved" programs that are not and never have worked and get off the socialization train. Then maybe we would have better schools.
Year after year they come up with the guinea pig teaching programs that do not work.
I taught my children how to read and they were well prepared for school before even walking in the door.However the school has done what they can to try and dumb them down to their new programs.
As far as the "Socialization" crap,that could mean anything. I don't send my kids to school to socialize. I send them to learn. They have been taught at an early age ,school is your job. You wake up you get yourself prepared ,put your best foot forward and do the best to achieve the highest you can. When your "job" is done for the day we sit and do homework,discuss what the did that day and I tell them good job for the day.
My kids were also taught that disrespect,acting out,or disobeying school rules will not be permitted and is unacceptable in our house. My children are well behaved and take school seriously.
We don't push them. They love to learn and we have to supplement their schooling because of the watered down curriculum.
For the most part they are self starters. My youngest going into 2nd grade taught herself mutiplication over the summer.She also wrote a wonderful story about the Meteor showers a few weeks back,all on her own.
They school hates me and thats good,because I will not let them get away with anything. Both my husband and I are involved with our children's schooling.
They don't want parents like us though because we hold their feet to the fire to get our kids educated on their level not someone else's
Alot has gone on between the school and us over the summer.To long to get into.
The Principal called me today to set up a meeting with my husband,me,my daughter,the student achievement coach ,the literacy coordinator,the reading specialist and the principal,to make sure my 2nd grader is challenged this year,We wanted her skipped to 3rd but was denied.She is reading and comprehending at a 5th grade level and 100% proficient in math.So we are on their rear ends to educate her at her level.
The only type of parents they want involved are the ones who "stay within the lines" and say yes to everything they say.
They think they know everything and are above parents because they have a higher education level. My husband didn't finish college,however he is a Mensa.
I am so glad because I'm terrible at algebra.
Posted by Can I get an AMEN! on August 24, 2007 04:26 PMAmen, your kid's school has a "student achievement coach," a "literacy coordinator," and a "reading specialist"? What the hell are those?
And they wonder why there's allegedly not enough money for teachers....
Don't give up your fight. Public schools need to remember they serve the public; they aren't served by the public. You are the public.
Posted by prima facie on August 24, 2007 04:49 PMCIGAA,
You're to be commended, not condemed, for raising your children to be interested in learning. The problems that began years ago, still remain. Teachers continue to experiment with new ideas, but they never learned because THEY were taught in an experiment. It's a never ending cycle. Teach your children well and they will excel in spite of the obstacles. They will probably exceed your expections.
My daughter's science teacher sent home a 'contract" for my wife and me to sign. He threatened to deduct 5 points for each misspelling or other errors in grammar in assignments. I returned the contract to him with my notations of over 100 gramatical errors I found he made in the contract. Sigh!
My kids go to a great public school in Denver, lot's of parental involvement, good teachers, not much in terms of resources.
I couldn't be happier with it.
All the important lessons should be taught at home in any case..
Posted by Charles B on August 24, 2007 10:17 PMI wonder if Mr. Langley is required to monitor the hallways for supervision and security purposes? The answer of course, is YES. In addition to the teacher job description, security guard protocol has been added in light of recent tragedies. Would somebody please explain to me how a student can get from point A to point B without at least some minimum time? That would be a fantastic scientific breakthrough. These are the realities of today's high schools. It is ridiculous that we are even discussing such a minimal issue.
As far as the so-called "dumb-downed" curriculum is concerned... the opportunities are there. The question is, do the parents have the guts to unplug the xbox? No Sir! I have not turned over the responsibility of education to the educational system. As a parent- I share in that responsibility. Too many parents have "outsourced" this task and this RESPONSIBILITY.
Just in case Mr.Langley doesn't want to be a hall monitor. I know a volunteer who would love to be a hall monitor.
Spongebob Squarepants,He would love it!!!
Posted by on August 25, 2007 02:21 PM