Michael Vick & animals
It is not the emotion of the animal we observe, but instead our emotion to the action we project. A perfect example of if a pet can express or understand emotion is simple. Does your dog ever get in the garbage? Have you disciplined the animal over this abuse? Does this animal still get into the garbage when it can? If the answer is yes to these questions, your animal does not comprehend right nor wrong. What it does is react to YOUR emotions through the "Pavlov's Dog" response. Your animal is trained to express or do something based on past experience. The animal does not have a conscience, and therefore does not understand emotion, or have the ability to express it. We perceive what we want, and that is on us, and us alone. Sheep I disagree, My dog acts different when it does something wrong, I can tell because of the behavior, I investigate and and usually find she has done something wrong. I think animals are smatter and more in touch than we understand. And I know they feel the difference when we are upset. Sheep, children have to be taught the difference between "right and wrong," as well. Does that mean they are fundamentally born without a concscience, have no understanding of emotions or ability to express them? So Sheep, I guess Mitt Romney will be your presidential pick in the next election.... http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Politics/Story?id=3329017&page=1 Mytwosense, But children learn. Animals have instincts, and can be trained to obey. Children learn to think and recognize. Big difference. I don't know the answers. I just read the literature. We tend to project human emotion, because it is what we are able to realize and understand. I honestly don't know if animals "feel" the way we do, and neither does science. Physiologically, they don't have the cortex to be able to comprehend, but may experience anxiety. I really don't know. I guess the way I look at it is, don't be cruel and do things you know are abusive, and conversely, understand the food chain. But, Sheep - you simply cannot train either an animal or a child if they lack an ability to comprehend, i.e., think and recognize. We tend to project human emotion, because it is what we are able to realize and understand. I honestly don't know if animals "feel" the way we do, and neither does science. Interestingly, it's consideredly highly politically incorrect these days to attribute any human emotions or characteristics to animals. Yet plain common sense observation clearly shows that humans share many attributes with non-humans. And plenty of anthropologists would agree. Of course, it's a lot easier for a society to treat animals as disposable - from raising them in cramped factory farms for food to abandoning them at shelters - if that society holds fast to views such as animals can't comprehend, feel emotion, etc. My puppy ate my glasses.This is the 2nd pair I've lost .My now 3 year old dog ate my first pair. Both times they were in my bedside drawer. Both dogs also ate some of the drywall in the hall. I guess that means they both have the same glass and drywall eating gene. I'm still training my puppy. I know she'll get better. My older dog is very well behaved now. Just like kids it takes patience,new glasses and some drywall repair. Michael Vick shouldn't be convicted by the "Court of Public Opinion"..IF he is guilty (and it doesn't look good!) then, the judge should throw the book at him and the NFL should ban him forever!!!! Technically, I agree with you A. However, I've read some of the articles of the indictment, and like you said...it doesn't look good at all. It's really hard to believe that what has been uncovered so far in the four years leading up to his arrest isn't based on factual proof that he engaged in dogfighting and murdered many animals, as well. I only wish that Michael Vick were as sweet and loving as our pets. If he is guilty he is an animal of the worse kind. ..we allow grown men to beat themselves to a pulp in professional boxing rings. Eighty percent of those boxers sustain brain injury, were is the outrage towards boxing in this country. Michael Vick is nothing more than a product of his culture. ..we allow grown men to beat themselves to a pulp in professional boxing rings. Eighty percent of those boxers sustain brain injury. Where is the outrage towards boxing in this country. ...as for Michael Vick he is nothing more than a product of his culture. Are you kidding? Boxers have a choice to go into the ring and when to stop. Vick is the perfect example of "you can take the man out of the ghetto but you cant take the ghetto out of the man". He had a choice to stay away from that lifestyle he grew up with but he chose to go back and hang with his fellow thugs. Hell, look at the actions of his brother. I would have to say he was raised that way. E - you're right about animals and their emotions. Animal shelters are a blessing for a person who can't (or won't) keep their pet. And that is why I now have 3 used dogs! People are not yet intelligent enough to understand the language of animals, for the most part. s- Dog fighting-rooster ..cock fighting disgusting! It is not the emotion of the animal we observe, but instead our emotion to the action we project. A perfect example of if a pet can express or understand emotion is simple. Does your dog ever get in the garbage? Have you disciplined the animal over this abuse? Does this animal still get into the garbage when it can? If the answer is yes to these questions, your animal does not comprehend right nor wrong. What it does is react to YOUR emotions through the "Pavlov's Dog" response. Your animal is trained to express or do something based on past experience. The animal does not have a conscience, and therefore does not understand emotion, or have the ability to express it. We perceive what we want, and that is on us, and us alone. ************************************************* When a dog feels frightened or threatend they will raise their hackles and prepare to defend themselves, or go and run and hide. Seems pretty obvious a dog can express fear...is fear not an emotion? I never did get that memo. and BTW, Pavlov's response can be applied to humans as well...beat a kid long enough and hard enough, they will come to react (i.e. flinch) at every little thing...that's a conditioned response, just as Pavlov hypothisized.
However I question Smith’s statements about animals being unable to empathize with others. During my volunteer work at a no-kill cat shelter I have seen sick cats be surrounded by other cats, kept warm and groomed by them. I have seen cats exhibit severe depression (not eating, just staying curled up in a corner) after his or her feline friend dies.
How about my own dog sensing when I am not feeling well and staying much closer to me?
Is this not empathy?
Although I do not believe that empathy is a uniquely human emotion, I do agree with Mr Smith that it is an insult to the human race when we seem to loose this emotion as was the case with Mr Vick. Personally I see tremendous lack of human empathy when people abandon their pets at our local animal shelters. Often the reason for giving up their best friend is so callous: the owners are moving, the girlfriend does not like the pet .. . Often I wonder who has more ability to feel the abandoned animal, now depressed and curled up in the back of the cage or the human walking out of the shelter. Perhaps the animal can sense the hopelessness of his or her situation — in some shelters sensing potential death via euthanasia, in other shelters sensing the lonely, crowded existence.
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You took the words out of my mouth.
Sheep-
So are you saying that when I get home from work and the Beagle goes into joyful shivers at my arrival, I am just projecting my own emotion on him? How absurd!