Muslim violence
This letter has not been edited.
You should know by now, they only condem violence comitted by others. It is a muslim right to kill others that do not believe the way they do. Their religion calls for the deaths of all 'non-believers'.
Posted by mickey on August 9, 2007 02:28 PMAs if Christians never commit any crimes. Where is the outrage?
Posted by on August 9, 2007 03:20 PMIt is not the right of Muslims to kill others simply for the sake of belief. This is a misconception fostered by ignorance and prejudice. Muslims that murder do so in violation of teachings of their faith. Period.
Posted by Taj on August 9, 2007 03:34 PMChristian religions stopped killing others simply because of their beliefs centuries ago. Maybe, given enough centuries, Muslims might come around to the notion of not killing people because they don't share your beliefs.
Muslims you will find that the 21st Century is much better than the 11th Century. We here in the 21st Century can disagree with one another and not end up bombing each other. With the opportunities we have today, you will find that life is worth living and killing yourselves along with others is not worth the promised 73 virgins. You can have consensual sex right here on Earth in the 21st Century and not have to worry about getting stoned to death or having your hand amputated.
I am telling you the 21st Century is pretty fun.
Yeah, Taj, right. That's why I lost a leg to sniper fire and 2 of my companions went down and didn't get back up. It was those Koran following jihadists showing their compassion for human life.
By the way, we were members of an unarmed medical assistance group and not in the middle east.
Posted by on August 9, 2007 06:58 PMMore men in America kill their wives, lovers, and random strangers in one year than all the terrorists in the world kill in the same year.
The letter writer, like so many people these days, doesn't want to look at the his own society's problems. It's easier to label so-called 'muslims'.. If you know anything about true muslims (and trust me, I DO, I lived with them for four years) you would know that they don't condone this kind of violence. But, just as you men aren't doing a damned thing to protect the women and children of this country against your own murderous gender, there is little the true Muslim can do to stop the idiot murderers referenced in the original letter.
Sean: I hope you were kidding in this statement: We here in the 21st Century can disagree with one another and not end up bombing each other. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... surely, you jest. I don't know if you are aware of this or not, but bushie is bombing just about everyone who disagrees with him and his father.
Posted by Sheila on August 9, 2007 08:08 PMTaj - maybe some Muslims just misunderstand. Like this:
"Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks..." (Koran, 47:4) Maybe they don't know that that means give the Unbelievers a love hickey - they seem to think it means cut off their heads like Mohammed did to 600-900 Jewish men and boys he captured at Banu Quraiza.
Or this beauty (5:33):
"The recompense of those who wage war against Allâh and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off on the opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and a great torment is theirs in the Hereafter."
Maybe some Muslims think that means something like "The recompense of those who wage war against Allâh and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off on the opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and a great torment is theirs in the Hereafter."
How could they possibly fail to see that that really means "Love thy neighbor as thyself?"
Posted by Liam on August 9, 2007 10:26 PMTaj, if that is true, you need to call a newsconference and say so nationally.
Sheila, women are never allowed to hear the true heartfelt thoughts of Muslim men.
You are truly deceived. Muslims will forever do their utmost to murder Christians and Jews.
To Taj and the annonymous writer, when Christians or Jews commit any crime of any sort, there is immediate outrrage and condemnation all over the place. Or do you chose to ignore that, but when a Muslim commits a crime there is not a word said. It seems that they are given carte blanche to commit murders and other crimes, so until the Muslim community actually starts OPENLY condemning such crimes, they deserve to be viewed with distrust.
Posted by Nick on August 10, 2007 09:02 AMSean,
What a wonderous Fantasy Land you must live in! That idea that "Christian religions stopped killing . . . centuries ago" is right out of something such as "Alice in Wonderland".
Tell that to the maimed and dead of the Spanish Civil War - where Generalissimo Franco piled up his thousands of corpses in the name of Catholic ("christian") Spain.
Tell that to the Serbs, where Cardinal Stepinac had the Hierarchy and Clergy of the Serbian Othodox Church rounded up and sent off to Hitler's concentration camps, as well as having his Ustazi confreres pile up their hundreds of corpses for Croatian (Catholic) Orthodoxy.
Tell that to the people of Israel, whose familes died by the millions in "Christian" Germany's concentration camps.
Tell that to the people in the Balkans, whose "undesirables" - as identified by the Roman Religion's Pontifex Maximus, Pacelli - were rounded up and slaughtered by those same "Christian" Germans.
Ah! Well! Fantasy Land is so much more fun to live in; and so much more full of fatuous obliteration of the facts. So I guess we shouldn't disturb you with reality.
Posted by Old Grouch on August 10, 2007 09:19 AMNick: "Or do you chose to ignore that, but when a Muslim commits a crime there is not a word said."
Of course, this oft-repeated sound byte is not true. In the first place, many in the right wing media do not pay much attention to the Muslim expression of outrage. Their interest is in claiming a lack of such outrage. You are not going to know the extent of Muslim outrage unless you go to Muslim sources, and the far right wing media is not in the habit of doing that.
I certainly have the impression that there is less outrage expressed by the Muslim communities at Muslim atrocities than I wish were the case, but I recognize that I am really too uninformed about the extent of such outrage to express an opinion which requires me to be informed.
I also think that when a group is attacked the way the Muslim communities have been attacked, there is a natural tendency to circle the wagons, and in public utterances to defend, in this case, Muslims in general, even though there may be considerable private criticism when Muslims communicate with each other. I don't say this based on specific knowledge but rather on what I consider to be the human norm in such situations.
Nick's post apparently claims that there is no outrage by even the non-Muslim communities. That has not been my experience. Certainly there is plenty of outrage expressed by the far right media. It is somewhat ironic that there are many in the far right wing media hollering that no one is hollering.
Posted by Truth on August 10, 2007 11:12 AMOld Grouch, wow thanks for the reality check. I did not realize that Nazi Germany was a religion, as well as fascist Spain, Serbia and Croatia. Nice try there though old fella, you just gave examples of atrocities committed by countries not Christian religions. I am not saying "Christians" do not commit atrocities but that mainstream Christian religions stopped condoning murder in the name of God during the Enlightenment.
Muslims somehow missed the Enlightenment wagon and are stuck in a previous era or they want to return to a previous era. Sure they will use the tools of the 21st Century to spread their hate and vile but they eschew any social progress.
The last contribution that a Muslim society gave to humanity was algebra and that was a long time ago.
Looking at the Muslim world, there is not a single functioning democracy except for Turkey, which is hardly an example of a peaceful and tolerant country. They have their history of genocide just ask their Armenian and Kurdish neighbors. Would you like to write a book about the Ottoman Empire's massacre of the Armenians and have it published in Turkey. Too bad because any mention of it is illegal in that country.
Pretty much every other culture on Earth is heading towards the future except for Muslim cultures. They will literally kill you in order to have a society that is more 11th Century than 21st.
RP Murphy: From where do you get your misinformation?
Posted by sheila on August 10, 2007 12:49 PMThe Muslims in this country have not spoken out against the violence and thousands and at the rate they are murdering people millions of deaths in the name of Allah.
They are speaking out and using our infidel Constitution against us and demanding right Christians don't have thanks to that wonderful anti-American group The ACLU.
Muslims are demanding footbaths be provided by tax payer money at a tax payer funded University in Minnesota.Also they want prayer rugs and to pray 5 times a day even though it will disrupt classes.
Muslims taxi drivers are refusing service to anyone who has alcohol with them, because of their religion.What do you think would happen if people refused service to Muslims because we disagree with their religion of killing people who don't bow down to Allah?How about refusing service to Muslims because they are killing our soldiers ?
Now the are sueing a Swift meat packing plant because they want the assembly line shut down at sundown so they can get out their prayer rugs and pray.
Americans can't even have a display of Jesus in the manger at Christmas time because The ACLU has sued hundreds of cities and states claiming it is violating the church and state law.
Now the ACLU is defending the Muslims and suing state universities and companies to provide special religious rights to Muslims.
The Muslims are slowly speaking out .Not against the murders commited in the name of their religion,but they are demanding special religious rights Americans can't have.
All courtesy of The ACLU.
It will not stop there.More and more of our rights will be eroded to make special exceptions for Muslims. They have sat back and watched as the illegals have divided this country and have learned many things from them trying to divide and conquer this nation.
Posted by Can I get an AMEN! on August 10, 2007 01:14 PMLiam: It is obvious from your 'quotes' that you haven't actually read the Koran. I have and there are no quotes such as you listed above. You may, however, have gotten that hooey-gooey from the internet. Read the Koran. Maybe then you will understand a bit about the faith of Muslims. Pulling b.s. from the internet will net you nothing but b.s.
Posted by Sheila on August 10, 2007 01:42 PMLiam: It is obvious from your 'quotes' that you haven't actually read the Koran. I have and there are no quotes such as you listed above. You may, however, have gotten that hooey-gooey from the internet. Read the Koran. Maybe then you will understand a bit about the faith of Muslims. Pulling b.s. from the internet will net you nothing but b.s.
Posted by Sheila on August 10, 2007 01:43 PMAfter working in Iraq among civilians for a little over two years I can provide one explanation as to why Muslims in general are not speaking out forcefully against the radical militants. To do so makes them a direct target for elimination in the eyes of the extremists.
I had that explained to me many times by Muslim men, both Iraqi and foreign nationals who worked for and with me on civilian construction projects.
The jihadists view anyone of Islam who speaks out against their "crusade" as an apostate who is detrimental to, and a form of internal rot, to the sole purpose of bringing the whole world to the Islamic faith. Hence, they receive an automatic death sentence from the jihadists.
Not saying it's right; only relaying what I have been told repeatedly.
Posted by Trinity on August 10, 2007 01:45 PMThe muslims in America are not speaking out except to demand special privilages.
I can see your point about the ones in Iraq,but the ones living here in the U.S. have not stepped up and denounced the killing of Americans,yet we allow them to live here.
Posted by Can I get an AMEN! on August 10, 2007 01:54 PMCIaAmen:
Many Muslims here in the US have the same fear. They know that there are jihadists living among us already. We don't have to leave Iraq so that they can follow us home -- they're already here just waiting for directions.
I have a very good friend who attends the Muslim Center over on Parker Road. He relates that they are continually being urged to use caution when speaking about the violence. First, so as to not draw attention to their different lifestyle and end up included arbitrarily as someone of suspect. And, secondly, not to attract the ire of the radicals already here and set them off on a campaign of retribution.
Posted by Trinity on August 10, 2007 03:05 PMSheila,
Instead of posting silly denials -- how about posting some facts of your own?
Here are some facts for you: The koran has 164 calls to violence. They're called the Jihad Verses. You can Google that if you don't believe me.
The only Muslims that I have met who believe that Islam is "the religion of peace" are those who are woefully uninformed about their own holy book.
Read it sometime. I already have -- and it frightens and disgusts me. It preaches violence and intolerance on every page -- not to mention the sickening story of Mohammed, the pedophile who married a six year old girl name Ayesha and consumated that marriage when she was only 9 years old!
Excuse me, I think I am going to go and throw up now.
Posted by A TOLERANT Christian on August 10, 2007 03:47 PMTrinity, If they know there are Jihadists in our country,then why don't they turn them in and make Homeland Security's job a little easier.?
If they know who some of them are and where they live they are doing our country a grave disservice.
If they are protecting them they should be deported also.
Posted by Can I get an AMEN! on August 10, 2007 05:12 PMCIgaAmen:
Being relatively sure that there are jihadists already in our country is pretty much a valid assumption by everyone. Knowing who they are specifically and where they work and live is different than assuming that they are here.
I'm sure that if my friend was confident with a high degree of certainty that he knew someone was a jihadist or a member of a cell, he would report them in heart beat. It's the aspect of not knowing who they are, but knowing that they are among us that is the intimidating factor.
Posted by Trinity on August 10, 2007 05:36 PMSean said:
"Christian religions stopped killing others simply because of their beliefs centuries ago."
Truly one of the least accurate things I've ever seen written on this board. Try telling that joke in Ireland....
Posted by Charles B on August 10, 2007 06:24 PMYou idiots. I was going to be nice. I was hoping you would see how stupid your claims were, but apparently, not. So.. forgive me, those of you who actually have more than one brain cell floating in your head: This is going to be long:
SEX AND OBSCENITY IN THE BIBLE
GENESIS
17:9-14 Circumcision mandated
19:1-8 Rape virgins instead of male angels
19:30-38 Righteous man impregnates his 2 daughters while drunk
24:2-3, 9 Place your hand "under the thigh" (sexual organs) of someone swearing sacred oaths
25:1-6 Keeping mistresses is not adultery
29-30 Surrogate motherhood
32:25 God grabs Jacob's testicles
34:1-31 Brothers are riled when sister is defiled
35:2 Reuben sleeps with father's concubine
38:1-10 Onan's method of birth control not approved
38:12-30 Tamar plays the harlot to seduce father-in-law
39:1-20 Women tries to rape man
47:29 Joseph ordered to place his hand under father's thigh
EXODUS
20:26 God specifies building of altar to prevent exposure of nakedness
22:19 Death decreed for bestiality
33:17-23 God moons Moses
NUMBERS
31:1-18; 28-47 God commands genocide of Midianites
LEVITICUS
12:1-8 Bible calls childbirth a sin
15:16-18 Sperm and intercourse are unclean
15:19-33 Menstruation unclean; elaborate rules
15:29-30 Women must make sin offering for menstrual periods
18:22 Homosexuality declared an abomination
18:23 More bestiality
19:1,20-22 Man gets forgiven, slave girl gets flogging
20:10 Adulterers shall be put to death
20:13 Death decreed for homosexuals
20:15-16 Death decreed for bestiality (& beast)
26:29 Curse: Eat your sons and daughters
NUMBERS
5:11-31 God's fidelity test for women only
31:1-18 Moses orders that virgins be kept, other captives slain
DEUTERONOMY
3:1-7 Kill men, women, & children
21:10-14 God okays captured maidens as trial wives
22:5 Men's clothing not to be worn by women, & vice versa
22:13-21 A bride not a virgin must die
22:23-26 Virgin raped in city given no pity
23:12-14 Defecation: Carry paddle, dig hole, & cover up
25:5-10 Woman has cause to spit in man's face
25:11-12 A woman shall have her hand cut off for touching a penis
22:28-29 Paying father to have sex with daughter
23:1 Man "wounded in the stones" can't enter congregation
23:2 Children born out of wedlock condemned as bastards to 10th generation
23:10-11 Cleanliness called for in nocturnal emissions
24:1 Man can divorce wife through eviction
28:27 Hemorrhoids ("emerods") punishment for sin
28:30 Lord's curse: Another man shall lie with groom's bride first
28:53-57 Curse: Eat your own body & children
JUDGES
3:20-22 Dagger in fat king's gut gets "dirt" out
4:4-22 Hammer & nail murder by woman
8:30 Gideon had many wives, concubines
11:29-40 Jephtha's daughter: human sacrifice
19:1-30 Woman raped and ruined by homosexuals
21:6-25 Amidst carnage virgins captured for wives
RUTH
3:6-9 To "hook" him as husband, Ruth sleeps with Boaz
4:9-10 Boaz buys Ruth
I SAMUEL
5:9-12 Philistines "smitten with emerods" as punishment for stealing ark
6:1-5 To placate God, make golden emerods
15:3 God orders Saul to kill suckling babes
18:23-27 200 foreskins gain David a king's daughter
25:22,34 Any that pisseth against the wall
II SAMUEL
3:7 More concubine hanky-panky
11:1-27 Uriah sent to lose his life so David can get his wife
12:7-12 Obscene performance to be viewed by all Israel
5:13 David had many wives, concubines
Chapter 13 Amnon rapes his sister
16:20-23 Absalom copulates with father's concubines on rooftop
20:3 David imprisons concubines for above
I KINGS
1:1-4 Virgin as therapy for sick old man unsuccessful
11:1-10 Wise Solomon has wives and concubines galore
14:10 Him that pisseth against the wall
16:11 One that pisseth against a wall
21:21 Him that pisseth against the wall
II KINGS
6:24-33 "So we boiled my son, and did eat him"
9:8 Subject not mentioned in sermons
23:7 Male houses of prostitution destroyed
I CHRONICLES
1:32-33 Abraham's concubines have children
II CHRONICLES
11:21 King Rehoboam had 18 wives & 60 concubines
ESTHER
Chapters 1-2 Sexual contest to decide new queen
SONG OF SOLOMON
ISAIAH
3:16 "...and the Lord will discover their secret parts"
9:20 Every man shall eat the flesh of his own arm
14:21-22 Slaughter children for fathers' iniquity
16:11 Biblical boast: "My bowels shall sound like an harp"
36:12 Eating dung and drinking piss
JEREMIAH
16:4 Grievous, obscene deaths
LAMENTATIONS
2:19 Something to lament
4:10 Women boil children for food
EZEKIEL
4:12-15 God says: Eat bread defiled with dung
5:8-10 What's for dinner?
8:2 Lord's loins make guest appearance
16:15 Fornications pour out
16:36-37 Their "filthiness poured out..."
23:1-40 Sex organs and ejaculate of harlots' lovers compared to asses & horses
29:7-8 God performs bloody castration via a sword
HOSEA
1:2-11 God tells Hosea to take whore to wife
2:1-15 Complications ensue (lewdly described)
NAHUM
3:4-6 Lord: "I will discover thy skirts upon thy face"
MALACHI
2:1-4 An angry god will spread feces on your faces
MATTHEW
5:27-30 A man may lust but it's not considered just
5:31-32 Man can divorce wife for fornication only
19:3-9 Man who divorces and remarries is adulterer
19:12 Castrate yourself for Jesus
22:24 Law of Onan
LUKE
2:21 Eight day old Jesus is circumcised
ACTS
5:38 Eunuch baptized
15:24 Circumcision is not commandment
16:3 Paul circumcises adult
ROMANS
1:26-32 Gay men and lesbians "worthy of death"
I CORINTHIANS
6:18-20 Abstain form sex
7:1-40 To be more holy, refrain from sex wholly
7:18-19 If you're not circumcised, stay that way
GALATIANS
5:1-4 Paul speaks against circumcision
I TIMOTHY
3:2,12 More than 1 wife OK, except for bishop, deacon
REVELATION
17:1-6 A whore is stripped, eaten and burned
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TEACHINGS OF THE "PRINCE OF PEACE"
LUKE 12:51-2
"Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three."
14:26
"If any man come unto me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."
19:27
"But those mine enemies which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."
MATTHEW 10:34
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I come not to send peace, but a sword."
10:35-6
"For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household."
15:4
"For God commanded, saying, Honor thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death."
Sheila; did you wear out your highlighter finding all the "hate" quotations in the bible? You missed quite a few, by the way. Perhaps An American can help you find more hate if you're interested.
Posted by on August 10, 2007 09:00 PMSheila: you would like these stupid things from the bible. Enjoy.
There is a story where the Israelites are instructed to cover up their feces outside their encampment, because Almighty God was inclined to stroll around at night, and he didn't want to step in any poo.
The story about Jesus cursing a fig tree for not producing figs when he was hungry is really stupid. First of all, if Jesus can cure the dead, he can cure his own hunger. Second, if he wanted figs on the damn fig tree, he could have made them (he made the fishes and loaves, remember?). Thirdly, why curse a fig tree?? What good did that do? It whithered up (the Gospels disagree as to when, however). Why not just kick it, or pull it out of the ground... or, why not just realize that it's not fig season??
JG 19:22-29 A group of sexual depraved men beat on the door of an old man's house demanding that he turn over to them a male house guest. Instead, the old man offers his virgin daughter and his guest's concubine (or wife): "Behold, here are my virgin daughter and his concubine; let me bring them out now. Ravish them and do with them what seems good to you; but against this man do not do so vile a thing." The man's concubine is ravished and dies. The man then cuts her body into twelve pieces and sends one piece to each of the twelve tribes of Israel.
SA 18:27 So that David might be allowed to marry the king's daughter, the king asks David to bring him 100 Philistine foreskins. David, the over-achiever, brings the king not 100, but 200, foreskins of murdered Philistines.
EX 17:14 God says that he will utterly blot out the remembrance of Amalek.
DT 25:19 "... you shall blot out the memory of Amalek from under heaven; you must not forget." (That remembrance is now permanently preserved in the Bible.)
JG 19:22-29 A group of sexual depraved men beat on the door of an old man's house demanding that he turn over to them a male house guest. Instead, the old man offers his virgin daughter and his guest's concubine (or wife): "Behold, here are my virgin daughter and his concubine; let me bring them out now. Ravish them and do with them what seems good to you; but against this man do not do so vile a thing." The man's concubine is ravished and dies. The man then cuts her body into twelve pieces and sends one piece to each of the twelve tribes of Israel.
Sheila - stop lying about the Koran. Here are the sources of my quotes from above. The translations are all from devout Muslims and are accepted universally as far as I know:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/047.qmt.html#047.004
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/005.qmt.html#005.033
You may steep yourself in denial, but everyone else on this site will see your lies for what they are.
Posted by Liam on August 11, 2007 06:46 AMSheila - as for your little Bible study, is your point that two wrongs (Biblical and Koranic) make a right?
Also, are any self-proclaimed Christians, Jews or any other non-Muslims stoning adulterers or screaming "Praise the Lord" while butchering innocent people?
Posted by Liam on August 11, 2007 06:51 AMsean,
If you read what I wrote, you will note that it was the CHURCH leaders who were not only advocating, but openly participating in, the murder and violence. The countries mentioned had established - i.e., State -religions. Spain was Roman (Catholic) - which claims to be Christian, anyway. And the Falangist Party was backed by the Church all the way. Germany's strongest backer - even to the point of establishing Hitler as Chancellor in the 1930's, if you read the sources - was the Roman Pontifex Maximus, Pacelli - who claimed to be "Vicar of God on Earth", as his successors still do. And, it was the Cardinal Archbishop of Koln who blessed the thugs who perpetrated Kristalnacht, at a special Pontifical Mass; where the persecution of Jews began. And, one might even remark on Musolini, in Italy - another Roman "christian", who invaded Ethiopia, another Orthodox (Coptic) Christian nation.
Croatia, as such didn't exist at the time - being a part of the post World War 1 conglameration of Balkan states called. "Yugoslavia"; and it was the Archbishop - Stepinac - later made a Cardial to avoid prosecution for war crimes by Roman Pontifex Maximus Pacellie - who was in the forefront of the atrocities against the Servian Orthodox Christians.
Your assertion that "Christians" gave up preaching and promoting war and atrocities against each other at the time of the Enlghtenment is sheer nonsensical fantasy.
Posted by Old Grouch on August 11, 2007 11:12 AMYou may ask yourself why would Old Grouch,Charles B. and Sheila either defend Muslims or attacking Christians.It is because they are Democrat cowards.Let me explain.The ones that are defending the Muslims are afraid that if they say anything bad about them they might get their heads cut off.The pictures of this in the media was enough to make these Democrats hope that if they are nice enough to the Muslims their lives will be spared.These are the same Democrats that are trying to help the terrorist win the war.On the other hand you have the Super cowards that think if they attack the Christians that the terrorists will give them positions in the new government when they defeat the US.Anyway you look at ,it they attack Christians because they know they will not be harmed.They are Democrat cowards.
Posted by An American on August 11, 2007 02:46 PMAn American - great name calling. Are you past the seventh grade yet?
Posted by Liam on August 11, 2007 04:11 PMOrganized relion is the root of all evil. Violence is it's result.
Posted by Can I get an AMEN! on August 11, 2007 04:35 PMoops.
The post should say:
Organized religion is the root of all evil.
Violence is it's result.
My dog ate my glasses! I swear true story.
Posted by Can I get an AMEN! on August 11, 2007 04:39 PM