Single-payer solution is a fool’s bargain
“Single payer cost-effective, viable,” Fran Ricker and Kristen Hannum’s Speakout in the Aug. 18 Rocky Mountain News, came across more like a huckster’s pitch than a serious policy proposal to cover the uninsured.
They offer to save the state $1.6 billion by turning every last Coloradan’s health-care coverage over to a government monopoly run by bureaucrats. And what do we have to do to take advantage of this incredible, once-in-a-lifetime offer? More than double our income tax! They want to raise our state’s 4.63 percent income tax rate to 10.63 percent — a 130 percent increase. That’s $7.74 billion in new taxes, more than the operating budget for Colorado’s entire state government!
They also tell us, “Every other industrialized nation on Earth has guaranteed universal health care.” What they and other advocates of so-called “single payer” coverage fail to mention is that those other nations typically also have a parallel, private system of health care. That way, at least some of their citizens don’t have to subject their families to rationing by government functionaries.
Our own system is far from perfect. We must see to it that those who want and need coverage can get it, and we must curb health-care costs for everyone else. Still, I cannot imagine that very many of my fellow lawmakers at the Capitol are keen on spending $7.74 billion in order to save $1.6 billion. That is a fool’s bargain.
Sen. Andy McElhany, Colorado Springs
I agree with the senator. It is easy to cite the greed of insurance companies and the greed of the pharmaceutical companies, yet the simple fact is that healthcare is expensive. If you suffer a heartattack or major trauma in Colorado, the care you will receive is among the best in the world. This care can also run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Free market solutions provide innovation. For patients with dangerous blood infections, what is commonly called sepsis, hospitals that find innovative ways to prevent complications can save tens of thousands of dollars per patient. This benefits both patient and hospital. I doubt that an inefficient government bureacracy could have the same outcome. Just look at how slow and inefficient the division of motor vehicles is when it is time to renew you license. Would you like to wait that long when you needed to see a doctor urgently.
Posted by dick on August 30, 2007 02:03 AMI agree with the senator. It is easy to cite the greed of insurance companies and the greed of the pharmaceutical companies, yet the simple fact is that healthcare is expensive. If you suffer a heartattack or major trauma in Colorado, the care you will receive is among the best in the world. This care can also run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Free market solutions provide innovation. For patients with dangerous blood infections, what is commonly called sepsis, hospitals that find innovative ways to prevent complications can save tens of thousands of dollars per patient. This benefits both patient and hospital. I doubt that an inefficient government bureacracy could have the same outcome. Just look at how slow and inefficient the division of motor vehicles is when it is time to renew you license. Would you like to wait that long when you needed to see a doctor urgently.
Posted by dick on August 30, 2007 02:03 AMI agree with the senator. It is easy to cite the greed of insurance companies and the greed of the pharmaceutical companies, yet the simple fact is that healthcare is expensive. If you suffer a heartattack or major trauma in Colorado, the care you will receive is among the best in the world. This care can also run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Free market solutions provide innovation. For patients with dangerous blood infections, what is commonly called sepsis, hospitals that find innovative ways to prevent complications can save tens of thousands of dollars per patient. This benefits both patient and hospital. I doubt that an inefficient government bureacracy could have the same outcome. Just look at how slow and inefficient the division of motor vehicles is when it is time to renew you license. Would you like to wait that long when you needed to see a doctor urgently.
Posted by dick on August 30, 2007 02:03 AMwhen you start talking of government run health care remember back a few months ago at the pictures the media had on Walter Reed hospital in DC. is that the type of health care facility you want to go to, and its government run.
and what a wonderful deal this idea is for Colorado. we would be allowed, by the state, to spend 5 times the amount to save 1.6 billion. now that shows that another government run institution is working wonders, education. this must be a new math idea that shows how much of a deal this is.
Single - payer, Universal - What ever grandiose label the powers that be or are going to be want to give it........THUMBS DOWN!!! NO THANKS!!!
Posted by A on August 30, 2007 07:21 AMLet us remember that all the government fiascoes that have taken place in the last six years, and they are simply too many to list here - I have to go to work you know and I do not have the three hours time to list them all - took place under the Republican led Congress and Presidency.
When a party comes to power espousing that the government can do nothing right and they go ahead and prove just that, the fault lies with that party. The party of closeted homosexuals, pedophiles, religious nutcases, gun nuts, corruption and sexually repressed lunatics. The Republicans have proven themselves of being only capable of getting elected. Perhaps I should use the past tense on that. They can do nothing right.
You can rant and rave all you want against single payer health care, but the facts are the future prospects of the G.O.P. are looking grimmer by the scandal, which seems to be a weekly event.
The country better prepare itself for a Democratic controlled government for a long, long time. And this has nothing to do with the Democratic Party and everything to do with the sheer ineptitude of the G.O.P.
It's easy to use scare tactics about the single payer system, as long as you ignore the facts. Surveys by the World Health Organization confirm that among all industrialized countries, we pay the most for health care and yet we are consistently near the bottom in all measures of effectiveness. How good is that? And by the way, I don't see any stampede by those other countries to abandon their "fool's bargain" and adopt our system.
Posted by Romulus on August 30, 2007 08:02 AMAs a rule, the government can take a simple thing, like Nationa Parks say,and turn it into a nightmare of bureaucratic confusion, budget overruns and corruption, incompetent management costing billions of dollars, then, in total arrogance, defend their position as guardians of the public financial investment in National Parks.
Private management could of done they same thing for less than half of the money government has spent and, turn a profit.
The choice is simple, keep government out of our lives if for no other reason than it will save us all a ton of money.
Posted by Allen Campbell on August 30, 2007 08:44 AMHey Romulus,
Could you name for us the criteria used in that WHO study you cited?
Posted by John II on August 30, 2007 09:32 AMGovernment run health care is going to be crafted to support the health industry first, the citizen patient secondarily. Similar to the Medicare prescription plan, prohibiting negotiation of lower, bulk purchasing prices, the pharmaceutical companies will be taken care of before the population. As ridiculous as the following marketing note seems, it is happening and under a government plan could possibly be mandated:
"The push to sell more vaccines and pharmaceuticals has now reached a level of absurdity that should astonish any intelligent person. The mainstream media is now reporting -- and I'm not kidding -- that young boys should be vaccinated with Gardasil (the drug now being pushed onto teenage girls to supposedly prevent cervical cancer) based on the idea that if they have oral sex with girls who carry HPV, they might get throat cancer!"
Whaych what you wish for!
KC
Posted by on August 30, 2007 09:38 AMSenator you like many keep shooting down everybody elses solutions to fix a growing problem in our healthcare system but I never hear you people come up with solutions. Is it because as long as the people with money that can afford it have it and you could care less. I assume you are a republican. Most people that don't have insurance are of low income families and are normally democrats so you could care less about them. But if you looked into it those with no insurance that have health problem weighs on all of us and causes taxes & health insurance to sky rocket. Now I'm not saying national healthcare is the answer but is there a way of stopping ins. companies from ripping us off and make it affordable. Oh that's right some of your election funding came from them so you can't do anything. You most likely owe them alot of favors. So stop questioning others ideas and try coming up with your own solutions or keep your views to yourself.
Posted by larrymc on August 30, 2007 09:54 AMNo one gets the reality that we are already paying for each others health care. But if you want to continue funneling your money into the bank accounts of the middlemen (insurance companies), then let's keep the broken system we have and keep paying those skyrocketing rates.
The problems at Walter Reed, incidently, were caused, in part, because our diligent leaders couldn't agree on which private contractors to award our tax dollars to, which created huge and costly delays. They all wanted private contractors in THEIR districts to get a piece of the action.
Posted by Stan Broyles on August 30, 2007 09:56 AMKC, larrymc,
You might want to check out my comment on this same subject under the " penny wise, dollar foolish " letter
Posted by Allen Campbell on August 30, 2007 09:59 AMSorry, that penny wise, pound foolish. My mistake.
Posted by Allen Campbell on August 30, 2007 10:01 AMSorry, that penny wise, pound foolish. My mistake.
Posted by Allen Campbell on August 30, 2007 10:01 AMSorry, that penny wise, pound foolish. My mistake.
Posted by Allen Campbell on August 30, 2007 10:01 AMSorry, that penny wise, pound foolish. My mistake.
Posted by Allen Campbell on August 30, 2007 10:01 AMSorry, that penny wise, pound foolish. My mistake.
Posted by Allen Campbell on August 30, 2007 10:01 AMSorry, that penny wise, pound foolish. My mistake.
Posted by Allen Campbell on August 30, 2007 10:01 AMSorry, that penny wise, pound foolish. My mistake.
Posted by Allen Campbell on August 30, 2007 10:01 AMSorry, that penny wise, pound foolish. My mistake.
Posted by Allen Campbell on August 30, 2007 10:01 AMlarrymc asserted:
"Most people that don't have insurance are of low income families and are normally democrats so you could care less about them. "
Really? How do you know this?
Posted by John II on August 30, 2007 10:01 AMJohn II:
Pull your rightwing head out of the sand and quit asking stupid questions.
Choice and competition, with everyone shopping the system and making decisions in his/her own best interest is the only solution. Monopolies (single payer schemes) are consumer hostile--they always result in higher prices with less service.
Have you ever heard of a monopoly looking out for the consumer? Do you want to depend on the very same crowd that repair our bridges, run the post office, defend our borders and make our energy policies for your health care?
If you think that healthcare is expensive now, then just wait until its free.
Posted by Hank on August 30, 2007 10:19 AMlarrmc - Considering there are over 8.5 million people earning over $50,000 and another 8.5 million earning over $75,000 a year, and voluntarily choose to go without insurance, I find your claim to be more selfserving rather than factual.
Posted by KW on August 30, 2007 10:21 AMHank most everyone knows it will never be free. But at it,s current rate slowly but surely it will price us all out of the system and then we all loose.
Posted by larrymc on August 30, 2007 10:24 AMKW:
I refuse to debate with people as stupid as you and keith. It's like talking to a 12 yr. old kid.
larrymc said:
"Pull your rightwing head out of the sand and quit asking stupid questions."
Just as I suspected, you have no idea what measurements were used in the WHO study. It's not a right-wing/left-wing issue, larrymc. That WHO study was extremely flawed and inaccurate. Look into it. There was only one measurement that actually examined health care quality. And guess who scored the highest in that category? Yep, the United States.
Posted by John II on August 30, 2007 10:39 AMJohn II :
No one can question the quality. It is who can afford it. Now people like you and me we have it. But what makes me sick is when this senator writes a letter slamming a national healthcare system for the people in this country that pays his salary and he himself is on a national healthcare system payed by us. Not to mention a damn good retirement program. He don't have to worry about social security. Now this is not a right wing or left wing thing. Government will never do anything to fix problems like this because they don't have to worry about them.
Actually John II,
It was Romulus and not Larrymc who quoted the study. Romulus probably won't reply to you because like most democrats, she probably has an education and a job and doesnt have time to re-read and post to the board all day while listening to rush limbaugh on the radio and watching fox news on tv from a trailer house.
Posted by Edmond on August 30, 2007 11:33 AMlarrymc is must be very difficult for you to talk to anyone who has a higher IQ than 3 points above plant life. even a 12 year old can reason better than you but then again you like the idea of spending 5x's the money to a penny.
Posted by on August 30, 2007 11:43 AM11:43am:
( larrymc is must be ) What the hell does that mean. You talk like that and you question my IQ. thats funny. Oh yes I also have the balls to give my name.
larrymc said:
"Most people that don't have insurance are of low income families and are normally democrats so you could care less about them."
Edmond said:
"Romulus probably won't reply to you because like most democrats, she probably has an education and a job..."
Liberalism has the incredible ability to morph into anything it wants to be. It can play the victim and then immediately portray itself itself as superior. No wonder it produces so many demagogic politicians.
By the way, Edmund, what's wrong with living in a trailer? Do you have something against poor people? And, what does my supposed type of home (or Rush Limbaugh or Fox News) have to do with anything I've said on this thread?
Posted by John II on August 30, 2007 12:54 PMEdmond appears to be just one of the many posters on this blog who have to resort to name calling, innuendo or ad hominen attacks when attempting to make or defend a position. Although he has better command of the written language, and comes more from the liberal bias, he falls into the same category as Keith and An American in that he can't defend the positions which he has embraced by rote, so he attacks in compensation of not understanding.
This type is amusing, but not convincing. Reminds me of grade school kids taunting one another on the playground; "I know you are, but what am I."
I've just added Edmond to the "to be ignored name caller list."
It's much more interesting and informative to read intelligent positions backed by well reasoned arguments posted by people from either side of the aisle than to read how everybody who disagrees with a poster is a "coward, idiot or etc."
Posted by darfor on August 30, 2007 01:15 PMlarrymc said:
"But what makes me sick is when this senator writes a letter slamming a national healthcare system for the people in this country that pays his salary and he himself is on a national healthcare system payed by us."
What national health care system are the senators on?
Posted by John II on August 30, 2007 01:42 PMI was watching C-Span a few weeks ago when the issue about the Federal Health Care program for senators was discussed but I am unaware of such a program by the state of Colorado. I'd be interested in any enlightenment that might be forthcoming.
Posted by Stan Broyles on August 30, 2007 01:55 PMlarrymc
Sen. Andy McElhany is a State Senator, not Federal. He's still covered by a good state provided plan, but he does not have all the golden perks the Feds have.
CA
Posted by on August 30, 2007 01:59 PMTo people who say that we need to shop the system I have a question. HOW? No hospital or doctor displays their prices, most places charge cash pay people 3x higher rate than they bill the insurance, etc... If they had somewhere a list of prices that's easily accessible then yes, we could shop the system, but that will never happen.
How about having a website that you can search based on the procedure and then it gives you per hospital, the cost along with the statistics such as number of procedure done each year, fatalities, injuries, malpractice suits, average stay in the hospital, etc... NOW THAT would be calling shopping the system.
Posted by on August 30, 2007 02:11 PMAllen Campbell, I often agree with your posts, but definitely not your 8:44 one on this thread.
I, for one, do not feel like relinquishing yet another one of our public possessions over to the privateers. I much prefer being an owner of our public lands, even if just symbolically, than a "customer."
This may digress from the thread's topic about healthcare, but whenever I see such an appalling sentiment about our public lands expressed, I have to speak up.
Posted by mytwosense on August 30, 2007 02:20 PMAppalling? You seem to get appalled very easily.
Posted by John II on August 30, 2007 02:46 PManother GREAT example of the sheep in this country that have been divided into " left " and right " to keep us from compromising. you people are all imbeceils of the highest order and the REASON WHY our country is draining away.
Posted by Fresh on August 30, 2007 06:49 PM