Ted Haggard
RE: Haggard fund drive points to molester
It’s more disconcerting to me that he is asking for funds when he is setting on a 3/4 million dollar home in Colorado that he has NOT put up for sale. That is what the rest of us would be expected to do.
This letter has not been edited.
Once a con man on the grift, always a con man on the grift. And, Christians wonder why people look askance at their beliefs when their religion has become a haven for greedy manipulators to take the helm in the name of God and milk the believers for all their worth.
Posted by on August 31, 2007 02:32 PMChristians belief system is not the issue, Christians not adhering to their belief system is the issue......
Posted by on August 31, 2007 03:24 PMBagwan Shree Rajneesh (Hindu)
Ferdinand Marcos (athiest)
Leona Helmsley (so mean even the athiests won't claim her)
and so on.....
Kevin,
Who was that little fat fake of a fakir who used to drive around in a Ferrari - at top speed - and perform marriages at age 17, because he "inherited" the cult?
He bought the old Paramount Theatre building downtown, and used it as his headquarters for a while, and then got dropped on carrying gold watches, rings, and other contraband into India, when his relatives called him home. I don't think he ever got a Visa for the US again. And, if memory serves, his Mama sort of "dethroned" him from his position as Lord High Executioner/Guru.
Was that little Maharaj Ji? Yep! It was,.
Good old Colorful Cowlorado!
Posted by Old Grouch on August 31, 2007 05:42 PMPosted by on August 31, 2007 03:24 PM
"Christians belief system is not the issue"
I disagree.
Posted by Charles B on August 31, 2007 08:01 PMA religious system and those that use it for there own gain are two very different things. The system and a belief in it are inherently benign and a beneficial foundation on on which can be built a wealth of values, standards and ethics that can benefit others.
It is only when a beneficial and passive belief is corrupted by those who know that there is always an emotional content in any belief system and with the right kind of psycological manipulation it can be whipped into a agressive and detrimental force to their own financial gain. They can turn it into force which accomplishes the exact opposite of what that belief's foundational tenets are.
This combination of manipulating power and gullible or desperate people has led to human regression, social destruction, wars and has taken the world to the verge of total chaos many times throughout the entire recorded history of life on this planet.
But, this is not due the the religious belief, it is the result of those who purposely use deception and manipulation to gain power, control and wealth and those who allow it to happen. Belief is a two edged sword. It can be use to cleave a straight path through the deception, greed and evil power in this world or, it can be used as a weapon to insure those things prevail.
That is why sure control of and competent govenorship over strong emotional beliefs, be they religious, political or social is necessary, Without this, it can and often does become an uncontrolable, raging beast set on destroying all that truth and freedom stands for.
Posted by Allen Campbell on September 1, 2007 06:44 AMI wonder how it is that correspondent Kevin knows the religious beliefs of Ferdinand Marcos and whether or not "atheists" would claim a now deceased billionairess hotel magnate? Marcos having been a citizen of the Philippines would I suspect have been Roman Catholic given the influence of the Spanish and the church in the islands.
I'm not sure what difference any of this makes to anyone other than Kevin and if the wingnuts are set on a campaign to demonize the word "atheist" as they've demonized the word "socialist" all without any real understanding of what either word defines.
03:24 PM,8/31, anonymous, & Allen Campbell,
Unfortunately, there are some belief-systems, either called or calling themselves, "christian" that, in and of themselves, ARE potentially the "issue". Most of these lie in the area of "fundamentalism/conservatism" - as it is known today -, where a simplistic, and literalistic, adherance to the system confers a concomitant status of, somehow, being "above/superior/Elect" in relationship both to other people as well as to whatever laws, rules, and regulations are there to "govern/rule-over" others, both in the system itself and outside the system as well.
Indeed, the word, "Elect", can generally be found at root in the system itself; and comes directly from the works of John Calvin, one of those in the forefront of the Priotestant Revolution.
The Calvinist idea of predestination/predestinarianism crops up all over, among the American off-shoots of the more Established Cults, such as Lutherism, for instance. And, as the followers of these off-shoot forms of religion continue to spread throughout the U.S.A., and grow in numbers as well, the potential issues have become more evident.
This form of religious belief often motivates those who seek power, control, and wealth, both consciously and unconsciously, depending on the level of the individual who translates the religious "Election" into secular action. An analysis of the "mega-church" syndrome will often reveal the mega-church founder/builder/leader's drive to be known, appreciated, and revered - as well as followed and obeyed - for the "Election" his belief-system holds he has.
It appears to be mostly a Protestant phenomonon in this country. But one needs only to trace the history of Papal "infallibility" to get a good view of both European Romanism and much of Romanism here in America today as well.
davis X Machina,
Most of the exagerations concerning "atheist/atheism" on the blog may be attributed to the wonderful imagination of that Whiz of a Whizard, James Jones, and his postings that include Buiddhim, Bhraminism, Jainism, Taoism, and others under HIS "definition" of the word. Don't bother offering any correction to the damn foolishness. That would just be wasting your time trying to "nail Jello to a wall", since Jones has moved on to "genuine religious" work, try to "populate" heaven and hell - which he also contends is the main purpose and work of "genuine religious" as well.
And, don't bother with DEFINITIONS, as such, either. He has already stated - to me in postings earlier - that that is "just semantics", and that rather than bother one's self with mundane facts, it is necessary to use IMAGINATION to really understand .
Posted by Old Grouch on September 1, 2007 10:25 AMWhile I agree that what Haggard did was wrong and disconcerting, Harry you missed an important fact. Both papers and 9News stated that the house IS up for sale.
In fact, according to the Gazette, it has been up for sale for nearly a year. Unfortunately, houses of that expense in Colorado Springs aren't selling well.
Posted by L on September 1, 2007 10:33 AML
Maybe he should lower his price instead of his pants.
Charles B I am SO GLAD you disagree, now please "enlighten" us as to why........
Posted by Heather on September 1, 2007 10:14 PMHeather,
Glad you asked.
Christianity is the belief that Jesus was a God.
There is zero evidence indicating existence of any God.
Grown people believing in ghosts and magic is what's wrong with Christianity.
There's the added problem that there are people who don't believe in God and want to. Mother Theresa was an example of this, and when this combination occurs, you've got a great chance of acquiring mental illness and/or living a very unhappy life.
Suicide bombings are a direct result of the same delusional beliefs that Christians hold. The ridiculous idea that there is an "afterlife" that counts more than the current life you're living.
Fight radical Islam! Abandon Christianity.
Posted by Charles B on September 2, 2007 03:37 PMCharles it takes more belief to think that this planet came into existance through a big bang, than it does to believe in a God that could create............
Christianity is more than believing in "ghosts" or "magic", it is having a relationship with the creator of the universe which in my humble opinion is more amazing than anything I've ever experienced....
Not having any sort of belief system can also cause mental illness/instability, I can't imagine the loneliness one must feel of thinking they are alone, and that when they die nothing happens to them, their bodies just rot in the ground, what purpose then would there be in life? Why bother living if there's nothing to look forward to after this?
Posted by Heather on September 3, 2007 10:12 AMHeather, looking forward to something to give purpose to living now may comfort you, but do all primates, even those like Chimps and Gorillas have souls too.?
What makes you think one group of primates gets to carry their little consciousness all through eternity?
Death is a condition, not a place. It is cold comfort but the purpose of living, appears to be to live. Nothing more.
Any believe in something not provable is neurotic. Intense belief is psychotic.
Posted by Sharon B. on September 3, 2007 11:50 AM"I can't imagine the loneliness one must feel of thinking they are alone, and that when they die nothing happens to them..."
Heather's description is very enlightening - and shows us that religious fervor is nothing more than an acute fear of death. What a sad way to live - neurotically obsessing on the afterlife instead of the here and now. Isn't there some kind of drug for this?
Posted by drew on September 4, 2007 01:50 PMAnd people who aren't religious don't fear death? Give me a break drew...........
Posted by Heather on September 4, 2007 03:09 PMHeather says, "Why bother living if there's nothing to look forward to after this?" attacking the atheist/agnostic view on life.
Perhaps, Heather, it might be the realization that THIS is ALL we have, so let's make the most of it while we are here. Some of us DO view our lives now as having more significance than the big "are you going to heaven or hell" test.
That said, I have to acknowledge I have some disagreement with Charles B. I am agnostic... and for the uninitiated, it doesn't make me an atheist. I am just saying that I don't know where we came from. However, I believe religion and faith are not entirely bad, as Charles B. seems to be asserting. For many, it has given them a great deal of motivation and purpose in life, and the will to do very good things! Without it, there are many who would have been lost. I find that to be wonderful and very beneficial.
My issue with religion, and in this country the Christian right, is when religion (especially one particular religion) becomes a primary component of the policy and decision-making in this country.
Faith should be a very personal, individual experience, and it should NEVER be used for repression, self-gain, or to actively hurt other people. Unfortunately these days there are too many in power, such as Ted Haggard, and our illustrious Lunatic-in-Chief, who use their religious principles to justify the pain and hardship that they inflict on others.
Religion is like most any other power or tool.... in the hands of a craftsman (or carpenter...*wink*), it can create wonders. In the wrong hands, it can create havoc. Right now, we just have too many people using religion for the wrong purposes.
Posted by Dan on September 4, 2007 05:48 PMApparently not as much as people like you Heather - otherwise I'd be obsessing about death, heaven & hell, sin, evil, the rapture & all that other stuff that seems to take up so much of your time.
That stuff really doesn't interest me & is just a distraction from getting on with life. Just treat people the way you'd like to be treated & everything works itself out.
Posted by drew on September 5, 2007 08:58 AMThis is a test for mid sentence graphics enhancement.
Posted by on September 27, 2007 06:54 PMTest number 2 for change in font size along with graphics enhancement.
Posted by on September 27, 2007 06:58 PM