Think about all the other animals
Our national media have had a field day reporting on allegations that Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick sponsored a brutal dog fighting operation(“Vick one of four who gets indicted,” July 18).
Yet no one ever reports on the brutal slaughter every hour of every day of every year of a million cows, pigs and other innocent, sentient animals who are just as deserving of our respect and compassion as Vick’s dogs.
There is no life before death for these animals. In today’s factory farms, cows’ babies are torn from their mothers at birth and chained by the neck for 16 weeks in tiny wood crates to produce veal. Breeding sows are impregnated artificially and confined in similarly tight metal cages.
Following this unconscionable abuse, the animals are trucked to the slaughterhouse without food or water and exposed to extreme cold or heat. Many never make it.
Every dollar we spend for meat or dairy products at the checkout counter is our direct subsidy for animal cruelty. Let’s remember our own responsibility whenever we get upset over the latest report on Vick’s cruel treatment of his dogs.
Donald Monroe, Denver
If it's bad to kill and eat animals, why do they keep making them out of food?
Posted by prima facie on August 2, 2007 12:29 AMI think im gonna cry.... after this cheeseburger. Then I think I will go out, kick a puppy, shoot a prairie dog and play whack-a-cat.....
Do yuou realize that if we were not eating them, cows, pigs etc would not exist int he numbers they do now, so all those "souls" you seek to protect would not ever have existed. And just because you have a bleeding heart and refuse to chow down on meat, does not mean you get to whaff your views on others.
I will continue to eat meat, relish in it and yes, I do know where it comes from. I have eaten my own elk, venison and 1 moose that I harvested, gutted and dressed.
Pass the bacon.
The reason Vick is in hot water is, we dont eat dogs and people are fond of them. they serve a purpose other than food.
Posted by Dravur on August 2, 2007 06:51 AMI love a good steak every now and then, Absolutly love seafood, I make the best pork roast this side of the Mississippi.
I wouldn't eat dog though. What's your point?
Posted by Can I get an AMEN! on August 2, 2007 07:14 AMwhat all about the vegetables that are torn away from their mothers stalk or yanked out of the ground.
Posted by on August 2, 2007 07:16 AMThis is a form letter. The exact same letter was printed in the Indianapolis Star "Letters to the Editor" section today, signed by a different guy. Pretty pitiful
Posted by Pete on August 2, 2007 08:11 AMWhen PETA comes out against Vick for abusing and killing dogs for fun and sport I can get behind them. Then they want me to turn vegan. Lesson learned. Stay away from the extreme points of view on every subject.
Posted by on August 2, 2007 08:51 AMMay I extend a welcome to Donald, our new local PETA activist -- nice to hear from your folks.
Posted by Trinity on August 2, 2007 08:51 AMWhy can white guys put 2 black men in a ring and let them fight it's entertainment, Yet if black guys put 2 dogs in a ring and let them fight, it's illegal. Dogs have more protection under the law than black people.
Where's the justice?
Sentient: 1. having the power of perception by the senses; conscious. 2. characterized by sensation and consciousness. –noun 3. a person or thing that is sentient. 4. Archaic. the conscious mind.
Donald Monroe: You need dictionary.com ~~ animals are not sentient; they are not prescient, i.e. having the ability to foretell the consequences of their conduct. Animals do not know they are being led to slaughter.
Evolutionary tools have imbued upon humans, humans only, sentient and prescient ability. Donald: We live in a dual world: God eat God created by humans and eat or be eaten created by nature.
You have all the time in the world to create a letter that does not reveal your boycott of the dictionary. Sentient means the life form is conscious of his existence. Sheep do not have feelings except for those convinced that the Jew from the "loins if David" who raped a 13-year-old virgin allegedly betrothed to Joseph created a baby Jew that was transmogrified into a Christian God whose sentience turned him anti-Semitic.
If God didn't want us to eat meat then why did he make it taste so good?
Posted by Homer Simpson on August 2, 2007 10:23 AMWondering... Did you throw your back out with that twisted logic? Maybe cuz the two boxers, whether white or black are in there on their own free will and doing it for sport.
The dogs are not. So, since your inane statement that "black people" are less protected under the law is patently false. If you are saying that all boxers are black and all boxers are forced at gunpoint into the ring, your rant may have validity, but they don't and you know it.
So, thanks for trotting out your strawman and beating it with a stick. But your argument is inane on its face.
Posted by Dravur on August 2, 2007 10:29 AMWondering: Boxing is a barbaric activity which, for some absurd reason (man's voyeuristic predilection to violence and mayhem?) remains classified a "sport" for the amusement of many Neanderthals.
However, whoever enters the ring in search of riches, fame or glory is doing so voluntarily -- they aren't lead oblivious to their fate.
With that said, I got to get to the store for some ground chuck for tonight's barbecue.
Posted by on August 2, 2007 10:35 AM"Wondering";
The biggest promoters in the fight game are black men; i.e., Don King. Isn't this a case of blacks exploiting blacks for personal gain? It's somewhat like many of the gang shootings of today...blacks shooting blacks to prove who is the real macho man.
Posted by on August 2, 2007 11:07 AMI'm thinking about the other animals right now. Boy, is it making me hungry
Posted by on August 2, 2007 11:17 AMMeat eaters; find a copy of the dvd "Earthlings". You can see real live video of farm animals being stomped, stabbed, shocked and shot all for your dining pleasure. After all, it is your world; a reality more cruel and twisted than George Romero could ever imagine.
Posted by hikingartist on August 2, 2007 11:40 AMWOW! Vick invented dog fighting. Muhammad Ali (Mitt Romney) invented religious draft dodging. Air-Jordan and Charles Barkley invented casino gambling.
Posted by wow on August 2, 2007 11:50 AMHikingartist, when's lunch?
Posted by prima facie on August 2, 2007 12:25 PMYep, I know exactly where food comes from. I am familiar with stunners, guns and shocking devices... So what? The secret here is that animals do not shed meat. Yep, I know, weird, ain't it. They have to be stunned, bled, killed, shocked etc to get the meat. If we tried to get a t-bone while the critter was still mooing, it might be real painful for the critter.
For the most part, they are harvested humanely, so pass the steak sauce.
It always amazes me the intolerance of the left. I am perfectly happy letting you all be vegans, vegetarians or moonbats, but you are wholly intolerant of anyone else. I find that fascinating.
Posted by Dravur on August 2, 2007 12:55 PMhikingartist,
I am going to apologize for the crude comments of some posters. Just as I would not lump all vegetarians in with PETA, I would hope and think you would not lump all meat-eaters with our crude element.
As Mr. Grimes very eloquently pointed out, animals are not the same as humans. We place human emotion and thought process on animals, that just are not there. Yes, they feel physical pain, but they don't understand the cause and effect of that pain. They know their animal lives, and that is all. Anyone that has worked on a cattle or dairy farm knows that cows are not intelligent creatures. They do not comprehend the difference between grazing and being force fed with a tube. They are just eating. They don't understand the difference between what we perceive as cramped quarters, or free roaming.
I do not think that we as a civilized society need to torture animals, to inflict pain for no reason. But, animals for human consumption, are just that, animals. The difference between intentionally inflicting pain for sport and amusement, or for consumption is the difference between night and day. The term "humane" treatment is an oxymoron. It is the treatment of an animal "like" it was a person, assuming feelings, awareness, comprehension, and emotion, all traits that just do not exist in animals, other than our perception of it.
Imagine, if you would, placing the same "human emotion" on plants... They are living, reproducing, organisms that react to sound and light. They are chopped up, still alive and "breathing" with no means of escape. They are "plucked" from their "umbilical cords" that attach them to their "parent" for nutrients, and in some instances, eaten alive. A fringe argument could be made that plants should also be treated "humanely" but we don't make that argument because it is, well, silly. The same should be applied to animals. There is no difference.
Posted by Dan2 on August 2, 2007 01:04 PMprima facie:
hikingartist is always out to lunch regardless of the topic posted to it's always the same nonsense touchy feely BS.
Posted by on August 2, 2007 01:27 PMAnd every year, millions of trees and bushes are horribly scarred by sharp cutting instruments, just so that they can be turned into cones and balls and animal shapes for our amusement! Say no to tree trimming! Ban the weed whacker! Hedge clippers are for Nazis! Lawnmowers are the devil!
Posted by On the Other Hand on August 2, 2007 01:48 PMPit bulls are really tough animals. Does anyone have a recipe to tenderize them?
Posted by Buff Driver on August 2, 2007 01:56 PMI'll have mine Cajun blackened!!!
Posted by tj on August 2, 2007 02:31 PMI come from a long line of carnivores. If it can`t run or fight back I might eat it.
I do, however, prefer my food dead.
Just for fun, read the newest Discover mag about animal intelligence.
Posted by Sharon B. on August 2, 2007 03:13 PMThe Bible says that man has dominion over all animals. So, if we don't exercise dominion, we'll all go to hell. I'll exercise mine with a twice-baked potato, thank you very much.
p.s. and quit trying to squeeze a camel through the eye of a needle.
Posted by Thumper on August 2, 2007 04:09 PMA fringe argument could be made that plants should also be treated "humanely" but we don't make that argument because it is, well, silly. The same should be applied to animals. There is no difference.
Dan2, the argument would be a silly one, because the comparison is silly. There IS a difference. Plants do not have a central nervous system, therefore, they do not feel pain, terror, or other emotions.
Of course, if you truly feel there is no difference between the dog laying at your feet and the fern you water outside on your porch, I will be happy to continue this debate with you.
Posted by mytwosense on August 2, 2007 04:27 PMHmmm this same letter appeared in both the Indianapolis Star and Binghamton NY paper.
Can you say "coordinated campaign" from PETA!!!!!!
I didn't climb to the top of the food chain just to eat only vegetables cause vegetables are not FOOD. Vegetables are what FOOD eats!
Imagine you and a hungry Puma are locked in the same room. I don't think the hungry Puma is going to have a passing thought about your 'rights' or 'feelings' as she enjoys eviscerating and devouring your entrails.
Another thought, show cattle often live better lives than some humans do.
A third thought, dogs have been bred and modified by man and have, (just my opinion) have much more intellegence and awareness than a cow. And there are other species that have advanced intellegence such as dolphins and whales and apes and monkeys.
Vultures would happily pick apart and make a meal out your dead carcuss(sp?), so I don't feel too bad enjoying some chicken fajitas (pronounced FA-JEETAS).
It reminds me of when Conan was tied to the Tree of Woe and a vulture swooped down to eat at his flesh, only Conan bit the bird on the neck and killed it instead.
Posted by Grim Reefer on August 2, 2007 05:49 PMyou can tell the peta puppies-keep trying to pull out veal calf card- i have never seen this and no one else has since around 1930 -
mr donald moore is mike moores sibling?
peta is no better than alf-elf or any other terrorist org.
peta lies to keep the donations rolling in for their agenda
wake up folks these guys are dangerous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you can tell the peta puppies-keep trying to pull out veal calf card- i have never seen this and no one else has since around 1930 -
mr donald moore is mike moores sibling?
peta is no better than alf-elf or any other terrorist org.
peta lies to keep the donations rolling in for their agenda
wake up folks these guys are dangerous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I find this amuseing. Vick may nev er play ball again. Why, dog fighting, yet Lewis from Baltimore was convicted in a double homicide and got only four months. What does this tell us about our society. It says animals have more rights then HUMAN BEINGS.
Animal Farm is real.
Posted by on August 2, 2007 10:22 PMLewis was convicted in a double homicide? He was convicted of obstruction of justice... the murder charges were dropped. If you are going to make a point, do not be completely dishonest about it.
Posted by Kyle on August 2, 2007 11:25 PMI woild LOVE to see one of these PETA freaks try to save fish from a grizzly bear!!!!
Posted by tj on August 3, 2007 12:39 PM
P.E.T.A. = people for ethical treatment of animals,
fact : the founder of peta had animal organs inside of her, baboon heart or liver , was used to save her life, i guess that baboon was not on her friends list of cute furry animals
fact : humans are meat eaters / predatory animals, if you will notice the sharp Canis teeth we have in the front of our mouths and forward looking eyes we have in our head
fact; meat taste good !!!, really good, i like baby back ribs and a good juicy steak , king soopers has steak on sale now for $5.99 a pound , good ol' strip steak,
i know alot of the veggie heads go to whole foods as do i , but i guess they dont realize that there is a huge meat section there, i guess they just choose to ignore it , that is usually the first place i wander to . i can smell the fresh meat dripping with kindness and awaiting my flesh tearing teeth to rip it apart ,
meat is good for you , contains proteins the body needs ,
Posted by Hoimaha on August 4, 2007 06:27 AMHoimaha, actually most humans don't have sharp front teeth. Unless you count Patricia Arquette and Jewel, lol.
We do, however, have flat rear molars like other herbivores, which is more suitable for grinding rather than tearing.
If you'd like to read an even more detailed comparison of carnivores/herbivores/humans, go to http://www.reikiempowermentseminars.com.au/assets/health_wisdom.html and scroll down a bit to see the table of comparisons.
Posted by mytwosense on August 4, 2007 11:17 AMmytwocents, i am not trying to change you from your vegan ways, although , i prefer meat that has had the crap scared out of it b4 it dies cause i like the gamey flavor that it gives the meat , like they make in Thailand with cobras, makes the meat taste better
i like meat, and nothing you say will keep me from eating a big juicy steak
your website reminds me of a creationist website on how the earth is only 6000 years old, full of lies and deception , humans are omnivores if you want to get technical , we have eaten meat for thousands of years,
here is a site you should check out about the "real facts" of human teeth http://www.zephyrus.co.uk/teeth.html
but i am sure you will find "lies, and deception " in this to accommodate your beliefs , just like creationist try and "disprove" evolution
Posted by Hoimaha on August 4, 2007 12:33 PMSix billion people and counting. Animals have to be killed to feed humans. Christianity says: No contraception, No abortion: Go forth and multipy and multipy and multiply. What does it matter if 40,000 children starve daily? Millions of humans are treated worse than animals. Dick Cheney shoots humans and caged animals: Dick and Vick the pit bull masochist are in the same category. Finally the much abused woman in South America waves her finger at the pope and says: "Yo no playa da gam yo no maka da rul," and the pope takes comfort in an altar boy.
Posted by RG: Risen Ape on August 4, 2007 01:14 PMJust a few comments on all this.
! I used to work on a hog farm. And yes We did kill some of them now and then before they were shiped off to market. But it was for one reason or other to put them out of pain or if they were very sick and needed to be put down. All you animal rights idiots never seem to understand one VERY inportant part of raising animals for food. Its for profit and the more animals you deliver and the healthier they ase the better profit is made. There for there is no reason to be sadistisy mean to them. After all they are just animals. The truth of the matter is I came away with a lot more respect for hogs after working with them. Infact I really like them. They really are very smart. Unfortunatly they are also very tasty.
Oh and RG your a religious Bigot to just like that idiot OG
higaba, the way to raise more animals, and thus, for more profit, is to cram more of them in smaller spaces, and jack them up full of hormones to speed up their growth and size. To keep them "healthy," they are shot full of antibiotics.
It doesn't take an animal rights "idiot" to know any of this, either. It's common knowledge.
If you want to justify inhumane treatment to animals in the same of "more profit," go ahead, but call it for what it really is: crowding animals and shooting them up full of hormones and antibiotics is making that profit, NOT keeping them healthy and treating them humanely.
Posted by mytwosense on August 5, 2007 12:39 PMAll you animal rights and vegan advocates received a lot of support in the DP comic pages today. Read "Bizarro" and learn why veganism will someday become a world-wide credo.
Seems to fit as well as your other arguments...
CA
Posted by on August 5, 2007 02:45 PMRead an article not too long ago of a Vegan going natural and hunting his food as he thought it more important to get his "food" locally and do it all for himself. He is satisfied with his giving up vegetarian lifestyle.
Posted by bwr on August 6, 2007 11:22 AMmytwosence
The reason the animals are given antibiotics is to keep some nasty things from killing them AND US when we eat them. If you have never worked on a hog farm or something like that who the hell are you to try and tell me whats going on at hag farms? You see and hear from a bunch of anilmal rights idiots and think they are just being humane. The truth of the matter is most of these Idiots are the way they are because they worship nature and animals and they (you) wish to force their religious beliefs on every one else. From what I have been told by friends who are still working with hogs they are switching from corn feed to a combination of rice, wheat and soybean, as corn has gotten to expensive as a feed. Quess why corn has gotten to expensive?
And as I said in my first post the animals are not treated inhumainely. People like you have this stupid idea that just because someone works in the animal for food buissness they are some how sadistic jackasses who take pleasure in treating animals inhumanely. Why would they do that? What posible motive would they have for doing that? What would they gain by thatWHAT WOULD BE THE DAMN POINT?Whan someone treats a dog or cat in a inhumane way this society comes down on them hard. Why would'nt that same society come down on people treating farm animals the same way? Your argument makes no sence. Those folks out there beyound the limits of your big city life are just like you or me. They have the same kind of beliefs and sence of responcablity as you or I and I'm really sick of people like you trashing thoso hard working people just because you don't eat meat. Thats selfrighious clap trap. Have you ever taken the time to drive out to a farm that has cows, pigs or chichens and talked to those people about what they do for a living. Get the hell down off you high horse all ready!
You really have no idea what your talking about.