Unions
Your news report, “GOP irate at union access” outlines an epic division much larger than the spectrum of labor management relations. Why should giving state employees basic collective bargaining rights cause a dispute? Most others states and the federal government already have dues withholding and formal access to employees. To prevent this is a violation of the National Labor Relations Act which makes it illegal to intimidate employees for union activity. Attacks on collective bargaining are unprecedented in modern history.
Right wing politicians like those mentioned in your article are often the first ones to blame “union bosses” for declining union member membership while simultaneously making every effort to bust unions for purely political reasons.
Their actions are effective, divisive and serve to undermine the democratic principles this country represents. Collective bargaining is about a lot more than economic justice. It is about recognizing the importance of work. Our jobs are a critical part of our overall personal health and well being.
Removing democracy from the workplace is a form of economic and social elitism.
Those who attack unions in the name of competitiveness, efficiency and economic royalty do so at the sacrifice of equal justice, checks and balances and due process. All of which define our democratic system of government and way of life.
This letter has not been edited.
Unions are organize crime that pays the democrat party to be allow to operate there extortion business on the American worker.It's not a democracy when democrats are trying to sneek though a law that they will know how every individual votes.Known fact that 55% of teachers said they voted for Bush but kerry got 95% of the teachers union contribution.
Posted by Keith on August 18, 2007 03:02 PMUnions are organize crime that pays the democrat party to be allow to operate there extortion business on the American worker.It's not a democracy when democrats are trying to sneek though a law that they will know how every individual votes.Known fact that 55% of teachers said they voted for Bush but kerry got 95% of the teachers union contribution.
Posted by Keith on August 18, 2007 03:02 PMRemoving democracy from the wok place? Do you even realize what the unions can get away with while "courting" (ie:extorting) employees to join their ranks (ie:pay their dues)?
Unions are prehistoric and cannot adjust to current workforce needs. The only good they do any more (and they used to be very valuable to the worker) is take your hard earned wages and give it to the one politcal party that will bow to their demands.
And for the umpteenth time we are not a democracy - we are constitutional republic - you should read the definitions to understand there is a great difference between the two.
Keith, where did the 55% number come from? I'm sure if true that most of those teachers are pretty upset about where their dollars are going.
Once a union moves in there is no more freedom in the workplace. The union pressure to stay lock stop and barrel , goose stepping at the unions whim. By keeping Colorado a right to work state and alowing workers the right to choose is what keeps workers in the running on thier own bennies
Posted by on August 18, 2007 05:09 PMUnions are an outdated concept. The Union no longer truely represents the employee. As for federal and state employees being in unions it causes problems. Unions resist any idea that is not theirs. Unions exert pressure on people, use union dues for what ever political purpose serves the head of unions, against many of the so called members consent. Unions are what is causing the flight of businesses in America. Why pay a person $22.00/hour to watch a machine put a bolt in a car. Unions resist everything and hurt the worker.
Posted by Chris on August 18, 2007 07:41 PMWhy do you think they rammed through a bill to eliminate the secret ballot in favor of a "head count" of cards asking for a union? Now that most workers are too smart to fall for union lies, they intend to go behind the worker's backs and try intimidation and downright thuggery to make certain they keep control over those already forced into unions and those attempting to remain free of union arm twisting.
It is only fair that unions be held accountable for how dues are spent and kept from their common intentions of buying politicians who support the unions' interests. Union member's interests are far down the list of these thieves.
As a retired teacher, I can assure you I didn't vote for Bush...and as an unafilliated voter didn't care who got the NEA's endorsement. That decision was based on which candidate showed the most concern for educational issues. Until the Department of Education gets the same budget as the Department of Defense, the NEA and the teachers who belong to their local unions are doing the best they can to represent public school children.
You don't like unions, fine. Move down south where the pay reflects it. Texas for example.
Go ahead and berate unions. It is aparent that few if any of these post have actually worked for or with a trade union. I am a card carrying member ,IUOE, and can say from experience that (1) I get a much higher pay scale, (2) I have a great health plan, (3) My pension will be there when I retire, (4) When I change jobs I don't have to fill -out job applications, and (5) The quality and ability of co-workers tends to be better. Yea I pay dues, but I make that back in two weeks when compared to non union scale.
Posted by k2ken on August 19, 2007 03:11 PMjanis houston
spoken like a true union hack. give us more money and things will improve -- for the teachers and administration. hey, you're probably a good baby sitter if not a good teacher. we pour more money into public education than any private school could dream of receiving yet the best educated kids come out private schools.
unions have destroyed the public education system. go to performance based pay, fire the hang on hacks and bring fresh blood in.
Posted by on August 19, 2007 06:12 PMAnon 06:12 pm I agree with your assessment of public vs. private schools. I pulled my kids out of the Cherry Creek schools as they were performing at a mediocre level. I enrolled them in a private school (not one of the big names like Denver Kent).
At first they complained about it being too strict and difficult. But after a few months adjustment they became enthusiastic about their school and studies. There performance seemed to sky rocket.
My oldest is now entering her sophomore year at Stanford. My son is entering his senior year in high school with a 3.96 GPA , and has received preliminary acceptance at four different colleges.
I may be paying of school loans for years to come (while my tax dollars are supporting public schools), but it was worth every penny spent.
I just wish for the sake of others that we could get a voucher system established. It would help defer costs for students in private schools, and most likely encourage improvement in the public schools as they would have to compete for student attendance.
Posted by on August 19, 2007 07:04 PMIf you think Cherry Creek schools are so mediocre, you should travel through the south visiting private schools like I have. Religious schools I should say. The people of Colorado have voted down FOUR times the use of public funds for religious education. Funny, 95 percent of those Southern private schools are of one type of student...white. No minorities, and certainly no special education students.
And Anon after 26 years in education I knew a total of 2 people I would not have wanted educating my children. Your bitterness is telling, and hiding behind Anon is even more so.
Statements such as unions are organized crime, or unions are prehistoric, or unions are past their time are a sign of a prehistoric mind, one that has no discipline and is ruled by unbridled and uninformed emotion, one that is devoid of common sense.
It is the same mindset, or perhaps I should say emotionset that says all illegal immigrants are bad, or all Muslims are bad, or all blacks are bad, or all Italians, all Poles, all Irish, all Catholics, etc. are bad.
The desire of humans with similar interests to organize is quite obvious to those whose eyes are not covered with the cataracts of ignorance.
Lawyers have unions. Doctors have unions. Baseball players have unions. Manufacturers have unions. Business interests have unions galore. Nations have unions. But working men and women should not have unions? How far from reality can a person be and still be called sane?
There are good unions and there are bad unions, and there are unions in between. To consider all unions as clones of the bad ones is simply gross ignorance and prejudice hard at work.
A prime symptom of ignorance and prejudice is that of throwing the baby out with the bath water.
Posted by Truth on August 20, 2007 07:34 AMMY husband chose to be a Union member and has been in the Union for over 25 years. His choice.We have always had medical benefits,he' has a vested pension from 2 states,an annuity built up to over $50,000,two vacation checks a year,makes at least $70,000 a year and works hard and has a great reputation in the among the carpenter's he knows and does the best work out there.
I being the political person in the house,( he could care less) think that all Unions should give an accounting of where the dues are being spent when it comes to political campaigns.
I laugh so hard when at election times they send out a list of people we should vote for. They are all Democrats of course and they just can't get it through their thick heads that the Democrats only support unions at election time and come bearing gifts they can't produce but leave with a check anyway.
Though the illegals have brought down wages in the construction industry,they are non-union. I feel bad for all the people buying shiny new homes built by illegals.You have just bought an over priced pile of crap,that looks good now but in 10 years will be falling down.The illegals have a stronghold on that part of the construction business.
My husband works commercial and works for a small company that has a large contract with Lockheed Martin.He has been with them for 6-7 years.Why do they stay in business? It's because they do high quality work.
They DO NOT hire illegals. The will hire latinos with documents but sometimes it takes a few weeks to actually verify these documents,because some of them are so real looking.Once they hired 3 Mexicans out of the Union Hall to frame a small room with metal studs. They did it but couldn't read blueprints and made a room with no way out,no door.They were fired that day.
I know the union doesn't check documents ,but at least the company my husband works for does. they fire people immediately as soon as the documents are verified.They won't even let them finish the day.They are gone.
Without the union my husband would be where the other non-union carpenter's are,making low wages with no benefits and competing against companies who can lowball a bid on a job and hire the illegals to build that project.
My husband however has made steady wages increases,has benefits,pension,annuity,works for a great company and makes at least $70,000 a year.
Those carpenter's out there complaining about low wages because of the illegal stronghold in the building industry I'd like to ask 2 questions.
Do you want to keep scraping by and fighting for the scraps the illegals leave behind?
Or do you want to make a good living wage,have benefits ,pension,annuity and if your any good a steady job,and pay union dues.
Think about it. The union is not perfect,but it does afford a family a living wage and benefits.
The company that does excellent work and does not hire illegals is Jordy Construction.
Posted by Carpenter's Wife on August 20, 2007 08:28 AMIt was an interesting discussion regarding the pros and cons of union controlled public schools versus non union private schools - although I believe the ad hominen references to janis houston was uncalled for.
I was fortunate enough to be able to send my kids to Denver Kent after they appeared to be drifting in a public school system. The difference in performance was astounding to say the least. All three of them responded with enthusiasm and diligence to their studies and graduated with honors. They have since all matriculated through college and entered their respective professions of choice. One being a teacher in a private school.
I don't agree with the blanket inclusion of religious schools as advocated by Ms. Houston; but nor do advocate for the strength of such schools over public financed schools. I believe a school by school comparison is necessary.
I do, however, embrace the idea of a voucher system for K through 12 schooling. It would allow many students who can't afford a private school education the opportunity to participate at a greatly reduced cost. Additionally, I do believe that it would force a change and improvement in the public school system as they would then have to compete for those educational allotments which currently flow unabated into their budgets.
While some individual teachers do react according to their own preferences in politics as described by Ms Houston, the unions march to their own beat; at times independent of membership preferences. Their emphasis is to strengthen the union domination of all phases of public education regardless of the outcome.
Posted by Trinity on August 20, 2007 11:08 AM"the unions march to their own beat; at times independent of membership preferences. Their emphasis is to strengthen the union domination of all phases of public education regardless of the outcome."
Of course, the emphasis of businesses in general is to strengthen their domination of all phases of whatever their business is. And businesses sometimes act in behalf of their own interests to the detriment of their customer's interests.
The statement "regardless of outcome" is ridiculous. One might say that there are certain unions which are too interested in maintaining power and not sufficiently interested in improving performance. But to say that they have no regard whatsoever for performance is one of those wild-eyed statements that are not worthy of an educated and disciplined person.
These blanket condemnations are not the work of intelligence but of emotion. In my experience, much more of a problem than teacher's unions are the administrators, who often act with disregard of what the teachers want. It is they, rather than the teacher's unions, that I have often found myself doing battle with.
Some posters have taken the opportunity to brag about their children. That's fine, but the inference that one needs to go to a private school to have a high GPA or to enter a respected profession is, on its face, ridiculous.
It would be nice if the posters would use some common sense in their posts. Common sense would tell you that unions could hardly completely ignore performance and would tell you that there are public school students who do extremely well.
Truth: Per usual your eyes are brown reflecting the level of fecal matter flowing to your brain.
At least you didn't reference nor cut and paste from Wikapedia this time; so I give you a C for effort.
Nobody said that they're weren't good students coming out of public school. The points made above simply reflected that some students work better in a challenging environment where all students are not dumbed down to the levels of the slowest learners. Individual initiative and abilities are encouraged, not discouraged as being disruptive of the status quo.
The public school system has to be totally overhauled. The vise grip of the unions along with ineptitude of the typical administrator and the geniuses who keep reinventing the wheel inefficiently by inventing new, enlightened" methods of teaching have got to go. Bring on a voucher system and we'll get better public schools overall and eliminate the bloated bureaucracies they have become .
Now go play in your corner, Truth, and study your bible, Wikapedia.
Posted by on August 20, 2007 02:48 PMPoor old "Truth". He gets about as much respect on these blogs as child's toy stamped Made In China. Of course, his opinions and arguments contain just about as much thoughtfulness, integrity and forcefulness as a tainted toy.
Posted by on August 20, 2007 03:06 PM It you have a 8 hour work day and a 5 day work week and benifits such as health insurance, you can thank unions and the labor movement. My grandfather had a job with the Denver Water Board of Commissioners around WW1 and worked from 7am until 8 or 9pm, 6days a week with breaks for lunch and dinner. This was the norm for those days.
I, had a good paying union job in Denver, that I worked hard at for over 30 years and was able to retire from with a good pension. True unions are'nt perfect, but what in this world is. Inspite of their shortcomings, America is still that much the better place to live due to the existance of unions.
In my own personal experience, those who I encountered who were anti union and anti labor, were either those who were envious of what we as union members had or those who were big money and business and their minions who wanted what we had to keep for themselves.
There is alot of griping about carpenter's not being able to make a living wage because of illegals. This is true for non-union carpenter's.
Union carpenter's wages are including benefits about $27 and up per hour. The carpenter's out there have a choice pay some union dues and have full benefits and pensions etc... or try to compete with illegals willing to work for $8 - $14 dollars an hour.
Say what you want about unions,they are not perfect,but they are still providing good wages and benefits.
You have the choice.
Posted by Can I get an AMEN! on August 20, 2007 04:43 PM03:06PM: "Poor old "Truth". He gets about as much respect on these blogs as child's toy stamped Made In China."
It's clear that if you go to a KKK meeting and get respect, you're doing something bad wrong. To a lesser extent, the same goes for getting respect from the mental pygmies on the forum. I get an A+ if they all disrespect me; but only a B if some don't.
And anyhow, some 80% of the toys people buy are made in China. That's a pretty respectable figure. And to compare my posts with Chinese toys is erroneous because I've gotten the lead out of my posts.
Posted by Truth on August 20, 2007 05:56 PMtruth,You are a total idiot.You fail.
Posted by Keith on August 21, 2007 01:05 PM