A right to litter
After observing more than 100 people smoking cigarettes while driving in their vehicles, I have come to the conclusion that cigarette smokers feel they have a right to throw their cigarette butts out the window, i.e., litter.
These are probably all good people who would never do that in any other situation.
Dennis Markman, Centennial
There are lies, damned lies then, there are statistics. Did you only note drivers who were smoking; did you note both those that were and those were note smoking, what percentage are 100 drivers to the total number of drivers observed, where were your observations made, Is the cited 100 number an estimate or an empirical number, what percentage of that number were between the ages of 18 and 28, 28 and 38, 38 and 48 and 48 and over. You see the point I hope; to make a numerical claim, the means used to arrive at it must be defined, that number must be defined by comparison to the total number observed. Without these control factors, any number is meaningless in trying to establish the salient point that smokers, as a group, litter more than the rest of drivers. Ask yourself, what is the most common litter found on the sides of roads, the answer is plastic which is not biodegradable. Tobacco and paper are, admittedly some filters are not but, that pales in comparison to the overwhelming amount of plastic cups, bottles, snack food bags etc.
Its not just cigarette butts, have you seen the trash all over the highway? Going south on I-25 at the I-76 interchage there is a reclining chair that has been there for over a year!!!
Until last week, (after 6 months) covering 8 of the 12 sewer drains on I-25 between the 38th Ave exit and the I-70 overpass there were larges pieces of carpet, broken rubber maid storage boxes, couch or chair cushions, fast food wrappers, you name it (gee, why is the highway flooding when it rains??) On any stretch of I-25 you can see a blown tire about every 30 yards or so. Better yet on I-25 north almost at the Alameda Bridge is a mattress that has been shredded and has been there now for 2 weeks. Good thing there is room to push it up against the concrete median!! And lets not forget the furnace vent pieces that stretch from Sante Fe Dr to 58th Ave.
I find it interesting that we are trying to hide the homeless for the DNC but our streets filled with litter make the whole town look homeless!!!
Boy Dennis did you ever touch a nerve. Don't you know that you can't step on smokers rights? You might have been better off calling their mother a dirty name. But I do agree with you. I'm not sure about the numbers but I do know that a day don't go by that I don't see one of these clowns throw one their butts out the window. Have some respect people don't throw anything out of your cars.
Posted by larrymc on September 11, 2007 05:00 AMgood ole socialist liberal larrymc you are really a moron. and not even a smart one at that. you can only see the comments about other trash all over the city as a way the smokers complain. your liberal buddy was the one who only brought up a childish smoker who threw out a butt but never mentions all of the other trash being thrown out windows. but dont worry our highways and streets will look real close to that of mexico real soon.
Posted by on September 11, 2007 05:49 AM5:49am:
If you don't have the rocks to give your name keep your stupid comments to yourself. Besides I'm proud to be a good ole socialist liberal. So calling me that is a compliment you moron.
Honestly, I see far more idiotic smokers tossing butts out of their windows than I ever see others tossing trash out of their cars. Littering is wrong, whether it's a cigarette butt, a plastic cup, some piece of paper, or a freaking mattress or chair!
As for the occasional furniture on the road or in a ditch or storm drain, ever thought it could have gotten there from a truck which lost some of its load, perhaps an accident of some sort? Most people don't dump furniture out onto the road from a moving car!
Aaron
Campell:
Dennis made no "numerical claim", He just said a lot of smokers litter. He is right. No claims were made that smokers litter more than others.
You rave about controled sampling and then turn around and make a meaningless assumption about what makes up most of litter with absolutley NO evidence!!!!!
Your audacity amazes me.
AF
Posted by on September 11, 2007 06:50 AMWow, I am shocked good ol larry did not say it was only neocon smokers who throw thier butts out.
We once again see that Larry misses the point brought up by other comments. That this city is dirty. There is other trash on the curbs and in the gutters. As Denver wants to put on this fake fasade of a clean happy city. It needs to look at the little things. The trash all over the streets. The grafitti (?) on the billboards and bus stops.
Instead of addressing these issues Larry just wants to blame a small percent of people for everything.
The first comment brings up a good point. What was the percentage of these 100 drivers he saw that were smoking and dropping thier butts out the window. Was there a scientific sample or controled number for his survey. one can easily say that as they drive they see hundreds of drivers on cell phones not paying attention to the road. It may be true but is hundreds accurate?
My last problem with social larry is he would rather insult some ones mother then confront the person themselves. A typical chicken.
Posted by antilarry on September 11, 2007 06:57 AMRight on, antilarry! This anti-smoking craze has created havoc everywhere! I think there could be a rusted out junk car sitting for months in front of someone's house, and the only thing the property owner would notice is the cigarette butt lying beside the car.
Here's my experience with the disposal of cicgarette butts. In 2004, I bought a new Honda. I was so naive I did not know that car manufacturers were selling cars without ashtrays. I don't understand since the Japanese are such heavy smokers! So I end up with a car with no ashtray and a problem with cb (cigarette butt) disposal. I put an ashtray in the car, and the first time I had to slam on the brakes, the ashtray went flying leaving ashes all over the car. This is a safety hazard. I then threw the cb's out the window, but this is a safety hazard also in dry forested areas. I really don't like to litter, but I feel I'm being forced to when ashtrays aren't provided either in our cars or outside businesses. People who think smokers will quit smoking if ashtrays aren't provided are idiots. Those who push their passive smoking beliefs on others are forcing poor decisions to be made by companies, especially the car manufacturers. Safety hazards are being created here!
Posted by Linda on September 11, 2007 07:32 AMANONONYMOUS at 5:49. Can you please enlighten me as to the correlation between Larrymc's political leanings and throwing cigarrette butts out windows? If there is a connection, please advise if I am correct in reading his post thusly:
he thinks it is wrong to throw butts out the window.
Your response indicates that he, larrymc, is a liberal and is WRONG in his belief that throwing butts out the window is shameful (my embellishment, of sorts).
YOUR response, in attacking his political beliefs, is that it is OKAY to throw butts out of the window.
So, the natural conclusion would be thus: Conservatives support pollution.
Interesting. who knew?
Posted by Sheila on September 11, 2007 08:02 AMANONONYMOUS at 5:49. Can you please enlighten me as to the correlation between Larrymc's political leanings and throwing cigarrette butts out windows? If there is a connection, please advise if I am correct in reading his post thusly:
he thinks it is wrong to throw butts out the window.
Your response indicates that he, larrymc, is a liberal and is WRONG in his belief that throwing butts out the window is shameful (my embellishment, of sorts).
YOUR response, in attacking his political beliefs, is that it is OKAY to throw butts out of the window.
So, the natural conclusion would be thus: Conservatives support to pollution.
Interesting. who knew?
Posted by Sheila on September 11, 2007 08:02 AMGee 7:55 am. I solved my cb problem. I now carry a partial bottle of water in a cup holder strictly for disposal of cb's.
You think the act of smoking in a car is hazardous? You're probably one of those people who talk on a cell phone and insert and eject CD's while you're driving and play music at a decibel level that causes hearing loss in those who happen to be around. IMO that's more dangerous than my smoking. in my car.
Oh, and dum-dum--cigarette butts starting forest fires because of no ashtrays in cars was exactly my point! It is a safety hazard not to have ashtrays in cars! Perhaps you can explain to me how a car manufacturer is protecting his health when the car is being sold to a consumer., and he/she is never going to be riding with me.
And as for bellyaching. You took my letter about littering and safety hazards created by nonsmokers and bellyached about the stink and your health from passive smoking. Well, get a bottle of Febreeze! I would rather you be exposed to a 1000 smokers than not have an ashtray in my car. You know why? I know that you'll survive it, but one live cigarette butt could burn 1000's of acres, and I would hate to see that happen.
I wish I knew your license number, so I could flip a cigarette out the window into your car.
Posted by Linda on September 11, 2007 08:24 AMNo, Linda...I'm one of those people who think that driving while talking no a cell phone should be illegal and a ticketable offense because it also distracts the driver and creates a safety hazard for others.
And Linda..I'm not "passive smoking". I'm breathing. And I don't have the breathe the smoke from your addiction.
That's right, Linda...your pathetic drug addtiction that costs you hundred, if not thousands of dollars every year and makes your skin wrinkle faster and turn sallow and your teeth yellow and give you fetid breath and horrid body odor andrives up health care costs for everyone else all while ekeing days, weeks and years off your pathetic drug addicted life.
And your last sentence is exactly what spurred non smokers to get these smoking laws have gone into effect...because smokers don't care about anyone but themselves..they knowingly and carelessly put others at risk for their own selfish interests. The majority of smokers had no respect for the people who were having to breathe the same air they were fouling. Smokers brought this ban on themselves.
I'm not as callow, as you Linda. I wouldn't do to you what you say you would do to me, because I respect your rights...as long as they don't interfere with mine.
It's called "negative liberty", Linda. In a nutshell it means that you have the right to do anything you want, within the law, until it impacts the rights or well being of someone else. If they tried to make cigarettes illegal I would raise my voice with you against that action, because I believe you should have that right. But you do not have the right to force others to deal with the consequences of your choice...including littering.
Dear 8:42 am,
You obviously didn't read a thing I said. Don't bother me anymore with you drivel.
Posted by Linda on September 11, 2007 08:45 AMSmokers are addicts. And you can not win an argument with a addict. They are junkies and won't admit to it.
Posted by larrymc on September 11, 2007 08:55 AMLinda..
I read your belly aching..
"Oh, boo hoo, there's no ash tray in my car, why isn't the automotive industry and everyone else bending over and catering to my drug addicted ass...hack, hack -.and I wasn't smart enough to look for one when I was buying my car..probably because I was coudldn't afford a better car because I spent too much paying for my slow but early death...boo hoo...and now I actually have to drive around with a bottle of water in my car to put my little death sticks out in..waaaaah! Why is everyone inconveniencing me! Waaaa Waaah...just because I have no consideration for anyone else doesn't mean that everyone else shouldn't accommodate me...sob, sob"
Funny thing, Linda. That's what this whole thing is about. Don't bother us anymore with your drivel...we're tired of your smoke. We don't care if you do it where it doesn't bother anyone else..and it's been that way for over a year and you smokers are still coming up with things to bellyache about. If it's not that you can't make us breathe your smoke in bars and restaurants..it's "oh my god, there's no ashtray in the car I bought"...
I dig going to a fast food drive thru, woofing down my food as I drive and talk on my cell at the same time. Don't forget that ice cold soda I'm also consuming. When I'm finished I just have to let out a huge smelly burp as I roll down my window and chuck the wrappers and cup out the window. I can't let my car look like a pig stye can I? Aww now its time for dessert. I whip out a nice Marlboro and fire that baby up while still yammering on my cell. Tooling down the road at least 10 mph over the speed limit I enjoy my tasty dessert, but of course all good things must come to an end. Time to roll down the window again and launch that flaming butt as far away from my car as I can. I can't risk it richocheting back onto my car and maybe leaving a mark on the paint job. Oops, didn't see that motorcycle in the next lane. Hope he likes Marlboros.
Posted by Tited of Entitlements on September 11, 2007 09:09 AMA few years ago I was driving on 285. There was a huge forest fire to the north, caused by cancer addicts who had to have their fix. The car in front of me slowed down to a near stop to watch the fire and then tossed their cigarette butts out the window. Typtical cancer addict/junkie behavior. You can't reason with people that stupid, that is why there are the no smoking laws. P.S. no liberal cracks, I'm a right wing Republican Notice how liberal Ward Churchill, the smoker's idol, is incapable of spending even 1 second without a cancer stick jammed in his mouth.
Posted by j on September 11, 2007 09:19 AMI smoke cigarettes and I think it's rude to throw litter out of the window of a car. What's even ruder is dumping an entire ashtray full of butts. Unless I'm driving a very far distance, I certainly can refrain from smoking in a car, just like a jet. This whole thing about tossing cigarette butts out the window probably started before filters were added. Now they lay there for years instead of disappearing in the next rainstorm. Today, it would be very helpful if we, as smokers, would keep our butts to ourselves.
Posted by Stan Broyles on September 11, 2007 09:20 AMAnd don't forget, the tax on tobacco funds all the important children's healthcare, so c'mon guys, lighten up. Smokers are important to our economy . . .
By the way, referring to the original letter, how does Mr. Markman know the 100 people he saw smoking threw their butts out the car window? Did he follow all of them?
Just wanna know.
Posted by CWW on September 11, 2007 09:48 AMWhat is wrong with you people? Can't we all agree that littering is wrong?
Posted by karen on September 11, 2007 10:18 AMHi Karen. According to one guy, it is the liberals who think littering is wrong. Which would indicate that the conservatives think it is okay.
What's wrong with these people is that they have gotten so bent out of shape about each other's political leanings that they now will argue over every little thing. If larrymc says that water is wet, i guarantee you, someone (usually, someone too afraid to leave a name) will argue that it is only wet in relation to the understanding of the word 'wet' and will try to give examples of how limiting water to 'wetness' is somehow a liberal biased thing.
In other words, what's wrong with these people is they are angry and, in anger, can't see the forest for the forest fires.
Hey anti-smokers be careful.
The marijuana smokers have pointed the way to relief from the anti-smoking nazis. All we have to do is make it the lowest police priority and then the police will be too busy to make problems for a business owner who's allowing people to smoke. Bet a lot of cops will be happy to leave the complainers to the mercy of their own choices then.
Jeez, lots of nastiness on this thread. Given that smokers are being referred to as addicts, junkies, et. al., I have to make the point - I've encountered and known a number of people who are anti-smoking, and will spout off about how it's a disgusting habbit, unhealthy, an indication of weak character, etc. However, I've also noticed a lot of those people smoke another substance that can't be purchased at the gas station (at least not over the counter). I've always found the irony delicious.
Yeah, mine is a pretty personal observation, substantiated only by anecdotal evidence, but so is the observation in this letter.
Posted by Jeff on September 11, 2007 11:03 AMKaren
You are so right!!!! It doesn't matter what the trash is, litter is litter!!!
I am pretty sure that the sign you see as you come into this state that reads "Welcome to Colorful Colorado" doesn't refer to the multiple colors of trash you can see all along the roadways.
Whether it be cigarette butts, furniture, clothes, DOT smashed cones,or blown out tires, at some point this trash needs to be picked up in a timely manner. Not after it has been there for months on end!!!
I don't know who job it is to clean this up, but the term chain gang comes to mind!!!
shelia you need to get a life. how do you draw any fact that conservatives think it is ok to litter? that is a dnc talking point on how they will save the planet and the conservatives want to kill every one by relaxing laws and poluting the earth to just make a buck.
litter is litter no matter who throws it out and please dont say the left liberals dont litter.
Posted by on September 11, 2007 11:07 AManonymous, anonymous ANONymous!!! You missed my point COMPLETELY!!! It was another anonymous poster who made the claim that it was the liberals who were against littering and the conservatives who were all for it. Yeesh. Read all the threads... slowly.... to understand, okay? I am all for EVERYONE keeping the planet clean. I don't care who you are in bed with (a political metaphor, in case you weren't sure and thought I was referring to your sexual preferences.)
:-)
THE WORLD IS MY ASHTRAY. COMPRENDE????????????????????????
Posted by Tired of Entitlements on September 11, 2007 12:05 PMLinda, could you chew nicotine gum or use a smokeless inhaler while you drive?
Shelia, love your posts.
Posted by Sharon B. on September 11, 2007 12:57 PMI'm shocked no one mentioned this...
Has anyone ever seen the bottom of a lift line, once the snow melts? Cigarette litter, UNSCIENTIFICALLY of course, probably accounts for 95% of all litter at the ski hills at the bottom of the lift. This is just observable data, I have not done a study on this.
I would hope that Mr. Markman's letter was an attempt to bring awareness to this issue, as maybe some smokers don't think about what they are doing? Tired of Entitlements pointed out in his humorous posting about motorcyclists. I happen to ride a motorcycle from time to time, and on more than one occasion I have been hit with a cigarette flung from a car. I find it extremely rude that someone is that self centered to not consider the potential consequences of their actions. But I guess in a "me first" society, I shouldn't be surprised.
Posted by Dan2 on September 11, 2007 01:13 PMRP McMurphy,
Your post reminds me of this neighbor that used to live across the street. As soon as she got home from work she would let her dog out to run around and crap in everybody's yard and never pick it up.I had a little kid and I would have to pick in up so she wouldn't step in it.I couldn't believe the gall of this woman.
One day I caught the dog going on my lawn and I asked her if she was going to pick up after her dog. I told her i clean up after my dogs everyday in my backyard,I shouldn't have to pick up after her dog. She actually said to me, that I wasn't being very neighborly!
So that night I deposited both of my dogs waste for the day in her front yard.It was about 4 or 5 piles, I had 2 big golden retrievers.I never saw her dog running the neighborhood after that.
They ended up moving and some other strange people moved in. It's like I'm a magnet for them. But that's for another day.
Do unto others as they have done unto you.
I love to get revenge on some people.lol
Anyone who throws their cigarrette butts on the ground, or out their car window is a worthless scumbag, just like eveyone else who thoughtlessly throws their trash around.
Posted by RickyLee on September 11, 2007 02:22 PMWell,I'm afraid I can't muster a whole lot of sympathy for the antis.....Maybe y'all should consider it payback for the smoking ban.
Posted by Jimminy on September 11, 2007 08:46 PMSure, it is payback till they accidentally start a fire that kills someone.
Posted by Sharon B. on September 11, 2007 10:26 PMNow THAT'S payback!
Posted by Jimminy on September 12, 2007 08:22 AMI wish some one would take a poll of smokers and I would bet that 99.9 percent of them would say that throwing a BUTT out of a car window or if walking anywhere and throwing the BUTT on the ground is not litering. (WHAT DO YOU CALL IT ) I also wish poilce would enforce the fine for litering if they would do that most cities would probably have an excess of revenues.I hate people using the world as there ash tray.
Posted by Darrin P. on September 13, 2007 04:29 PMLike I said,consider it payback for the smoking ban.
Posted by Jimminy on September 13, 2007 08:16 PMHow childish can one be to litter in response to a law? That is beyond comprehension. There are better ways to affect change than to act like a spoiled child.
Posted by Kyle on September 14, 2007 12:04 AMOh,I don't know about that,Kyle(and innumerable others).Don't you think that the incredible mess left at Woodstock,for example,might have been payback for the conscription laws of the time.It's been said that Oklahoma City was payback for Waco and Ruby Ridge.It's also been said that the JFK assassination was payback by the Mob for that administration's anticrime campaign.To cite a more recent example,could it be that Al Gore's defeat in 2000 was (partly) payback for the Lewinsky affair? And maybe the Kerry defeat four years later was(partly again) payback for his alignment with the antiwar folks way back when....Payback-it's the American way.
Posted by Jimminy on September 14, 2007 08:09 AMWish we could call (311) to report licence numbers of those who litter, play radio too loud, drive smoking cars and drive drunk.
Posted by slopoke on September 14, 2007 08:23 AM