Ex-student should hold fast to her cause
Upon my initial reading of the story on the reprimand of Erica Corder for “talking up Jesus” during her commencement (“Reprimanded for invoking God in ’06, valedictorian sues,” Aug. 31), I thought, “What a duplicitous young lady!” I mean, hiding Jesus until she actually ascended the podium.
But when I thought about the response of the principal — withholding a rightfully earned diploma — it seemed to me that he more than justified her fear that she would not be allowed to speak about what is most important to her, namely, Christ.
In our effort to not offend anyone, we trample on the liberty of students who deviate from the secular script. This is wrapped up in pious talk about “separation of church and state,” but it is really a way of saying, “If God is central to your life, you are a freak.”
Corder was correct when she opined that “expressing our own beliefs” is central to the whole educational enterprise. It is downright pathetic and immoral that the adults resorted to intimidation tactics in order to get Corder to recant and apologize for seeing the world the way she does. Hold fast, Ms. Corder!
Matt McGuiness, Fort Lupton
you are correct. the schools dont want to make waves that someone might be upset.
look how the educational system must approve all school clubs that meet after school and the ones they object to and not allow are in some way realated to religion and more specific a christian religion.
If God is central to your life, then keep it to your self. Bush is busy killing babies in Iraq-NAM and vaporizing them with white phosprous chemical weapons. Nowhere to be found on these barbaric acts, are our Bible-thumpers, God-squad, and right-to-lifers. Americans are exterminating Arabs for the greed of oil companies and the urgings of Judeo-Christian evangelical goons.
Posted by 40acresandmymuleandNAMvetbennies on September 13, 2007 06:34 AManother frivolous lawsuit
Posted by just what we need on September 13, 2007 07:27 AMAs usual. The Je$u$ Bu$ine$$ kooks, cranks, freaks, and weirdos loudly cry , snivel, and whine about having their "freedoms trampled on", whenever they bring up the Constitutional matter of freedom OF religion.
Never mind the fact that they want to trample all over the equal right of freedom FROM their religious damnfoolery that belongs to all the rest of us as Americans.
Get religion OUT of government! Keep religion OUT of government, and tax paid for public services and events!
Posted by Old Grouch on September 13, 2007 07:54 AMSilly non-christians.
School rules don't count when you are as persecuted as our loving christians are in these times.
Posted by on September 13, 2007 08:40 AMHow's this? I have to sit through another graduation ceremony this year and at this particular school. If I have to hear someone preach to me about Jesus and their faith then maybe I will initiate a lawsuit for having been forced to listen to proselytizing about someone else's religious beliefs against my will.
My right to choose will have been violated because this is a public forum for a school graduation and not a religious service. If some students want revival meetings for graduation then fine. Let them request a separate ceremony where like minded students can get up and witness their faith to each other as they believe it relates to their high school experience and graduation. The rest of us can attend a separate secular graduation ceremony without the concern that someone else's religious beliefs will be forced down their throats.
The easier solution of course would be to eliminate any and all student speeches. There really is no need for them and the whole concept is dated. I am only interested in my child receiving their diploma in an appropriately solemn ceremony to emphasize and celebrate the significance of the achievement. I don't need or want to hear soon to be graduates go on about their high school experiences which are no doubt gratifying to them and their families but of no impact on me or my family.
Furthermore, there is little doubt in my mind that now that this young lady has violated the rules of the road so to speak for the speeches that there will be one or two more this year that do the same in what they view as a show of solidarity. Again, if that is the case then maybe the rest of us should sue that child and their family for infringing on our right to choose what religious service we participate in.
Posted by Tit-for-tat on September 13, 2007 09:09 AMI'm with you Old Grouch. Screw the first amendment.
Posted by KW on September 13, 2007 09:10 AMTit,
Well put.
KW,
And the point of your secod sentence is . . . ?
Posted by Old Grouch on September 13, 2007 10:24 AMImagine we live in a world that allows students to preach at graduation ceremonies. How many Christians would be OK with a student quoting verses from the Quran, telling us how Krishna impacted his/ her life, or meditating in honor of Buddha?
Posted by Bo on September 13, 2007 11:04 AMTat - Get up and leave. No one is forcing you to do anything against your will.
Take your iPod for crying out loud.
Posted by KW on September 13, 2007 11:31 AMI would just like to thank my parents for giving me the strength to make this accomplishment in my life. Without them I wouldn't be who I am today.
I urge all of you to get to know your parents and understand the sacrifices they've made for you.
They made such a big difference in my life.
Damn! There I go sharing where I get my moral support from in a public venue and urging others to seek the same.
I should be arrested.
Posted by KW on September 13, 2007 11:39 AMBo
For your limited information this country was founded by Christian and on Christian Judeo principles with you enjoy the benefits of to this day. These Johnny come lately religions you mentioned are only being tolerated but if they and the latest Johnny come lately's, mainly you and your atheist buddies don't like it , go find a place other than this country to live. We are not forcing you to stay here.
It's like Buddists or your kind going to Israel or to Saudi Arabia and complaining because they would speak of Jehova or Allah at their schools. Try using that commom sense the Almighty gave you.
The same goes for Old Grouch(Old Fool) and 40 whatevers?
Posted by No Blinders on September 13, 2007 12:00 PMNo blinders,
this is a question I ask many, many christians. It gives me an idea of where you are coming from.
Would you have any problem with the pledge of allegiance if it stated "one nation, under no god"?
Does this give you any insight into either the religious or non-religious who don't believe in the christian god?
12:44 PM
You'll find your answer in what I already stated. Maybe the Dalai Lama can explain it to you, one of little wisdom.
Posted by No Blinders on September 13, 2007 02:15 PMSharon B - The difference is if you offend someone with Happy Holidays, or Halloween, the governemnt isn't telling you your actions must be halted.
If this person wants to thank Jesus for giving her strength, there's nothing the government can do to halt her without violating the Constitution.
Posted by KW on September 13, 2007 02:23 PMJoanna and the rest of you heathens are so easy to stir up into a "Cliche' writing anti-Christian freenzy. The truth seems to have that affect eveytime. Recent surveys by one of the three major networks show ed that 85 % of Americans consider themselves Christians, 18% are of other Relgions so where does that leave you and your kind? If you want to have a "Partnership for an Idiot Free America you should leave this Christian Nation, go to Cuba or Red China and take your fellow non-believer idiots with you. You should fit right into their Godless societies.
Posted by No Blinders on September 13, 2007 02:37 PMCorrection: 13% not 18% are of other Religions.
2% atheist or agnostic
Heathens? Non-believer idiots? Uh, No Blinders, you are starting to sound suspiciously like al-Qaeda propaganda. A little uncomfortable for you, I hope.
And by the way, athiest DOES NOT equate to agnostic. No matter what your megachurch preacher tells you.
Posted by on September 13, 2007 02:47 PMNo Blinders
You are no more a christian than osama bin laden is.
Why don't you have the balls to follow your bible, and expel us forcefully from this country? Take us down to civic center park and stone us to death. Come on, 85% of you should certainly be able to kick us out. Then, you can install your religious rules and force people to follow them. yeah, good times. That would ensure your placement in heaven, fer sure.
Posted by on September 13, 2007 02:51 PMKW, the government did not try to stop her.
she set this up to make a point, well, point made, now we get to discuss it.
she didn`t follow the rules.
Why do you think she thought she was exempt?
It is very hard to persecute Christians, but easy to rile them up.
We get riled up too.
Otherwise this forum and others like it would not exist.
I say we have been nice to Christians and let them run our society long enough.
Now it is our turn.
Posted by Sharon B. on September 13, 2007 03:01 PMSharon B.
Thats a laugh! "Your" society is over in Cuba or Red China you Johnny come lately.
Everyday Christians are Reclaiming America for Christ. We have formed Legal action committiees to fight the ACLU and have success in winning more and more court battles against this Godless Communist lying organization.
My advise to you and your ilk is to shut up and stop your whinning. You never had it so good because of Christians have made America the Envy of all other nations.
No Blinders,
Which one are you going to? China or Cuba?
Posted by on September 13, 2007 03:32 PMSharon B - The school is a government entity. When they reprimanded her it was the government penalizing her for exercising her rights.
The "rules," if allowed to be, are then considered sanctioned by the governement. So allowing this no religion allowed rule is in violation of the Constitution
Posted by KW on September 13, 2007 03:34 PMThese "super-christians" sure do crawl out from under the rocks lately. Swarming time? Or just the usual end of summer emergence to be heard at least once, before they vanish like the rest of the insect nuisances?
Posted by Old Grouch on September 13, 2007 03:36 PMJoanna
I gave you and the rest of you heathens my answer already even though the truth isn't your cup of tea. The rest of you think that because I'm a Christian I'm supposed to be mild and meek and take your abuses. Your dealing with a bold, gloves off Christian. All the Prophets including John The Babtist in the Bible offended the likes of you and could care less about their false acusations.
The Apostles carried swords to protect themselves and Christ told it like it is. Christ even whipped the money changers in the Temple. Now that wasn't very Christian like was it?
So we'll just say that's your problem if the truth offends you.
Poor sensitive vile fools.
No Blinders makes me wonder. Is it a requirement to have no more tan a mediocre 6th grade education to be a modern American fundie Christian, or is it just a strong guideline? Because it is hard to identify another demographic group with as many stupid members.
> Partnership for an Idiot-Free America
If it weren't for my aversion to any club willing to have me as a member I'd be right there with you.
Posted by on September 13, 2007 03:57 PM> When they reprimanded her it was the government penalizing her for exercising her rights.
Go take a bong hit for Jesus and get back to us on that claim, would you?
Posted by on September 13, 2007 03:59 PMNo Blinders
I will pray every night to the Flying Spagetti Monster to take people like you away into marina-ville.
and 3:57, I believe (not exactly sure) it's only a strong guideline, but they make fun of you if you've gone past grade 8.
Well, this "NoBlinders" character is about average. He mis-quotes just as much as any of his confreres; and has just about as much overall kowledge, or lack thereof, as the case may be.
Just a little "by the way": Jesus said to the ONE who happened to be carrying a sword at the time: "Put up thy sword! Those who live by the sword, shall perish by the sword."
You gotta be careful with edged weapons there sonny. They might cut YOU when you try using them with as little knowledge as you display.
Posted by Old Grouch on September 13, 2007 04:36 PMAnon 3:59 - Brush up on the difference between your 1st Amendment rights and advocating illegal drug use in school and get back to me later, hmm?
Posted by KW on September 13, 2007 04:47 PM"I guess I could go to a public forum where the Pledge of Allegiance is said and say 'One nation under Bob' but I doubt anyone will hear me."
You will be heard by J.R. "Bob" Dobbs himself, who will no doubt bring you Slack. Praise "Bob"!
See you on X-Day.
Posted by OverMan on September 13, 2007 06:25 PMWas George Burns British,
Good night George (Gracie).
KW, but being a mindless gas bag is okay?
No Blinders, I think John the Baptist was sweet. Not all the prophets were loony.
Are you related to Elton John? that business of calling people vile, reminds me of him.
Posted by Sharon B. on September 13, 2007 06:29 PMNo Blinders I have to say that as a Christian I am APALLED at your lack of compassion for these "heathens".
When Jesus whipped the money changers in the temple who put those money changers there? That would be the Pharisees, who Jesus got after the most in His 3 years of ministry. Now Blinders please ask yourself what your motivation is....
That being said as a christian if someone praised Allah during a speech or whoever, I'd more than likely roll my eyes, but I most certainly wouldn't stoop as low as some of you have in the name calling department......
Posted by Heather on September 13, 2007 08:38 PMHeather: far be it for me to directly call you a liar, but seriously, do you really expect us to believe that 'as a christian' you would merely 'roll your eyes' if a student gave thanks to Allah? You can say you would roll your eyes, but me thinks there is no truth to that. But, I sure do hope we get to see this tested. On that day, I really do hope someone is there, camera rolling to watch yer eyeballs rollin'.
Posted by Sheila on September 13, 2007 09:05 PMSo many of these posts reveal a real fear of Christians. I know, I know, "loathing" would be a better word to describe the feelings of most of you.
You will be terrified when the Lord Himself arrives, and rightfully so.
The Word clearly states that "it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God."
Now is the time to bend the knee in submission to Christ, in humility rather than horror. Don't judge the Creator by His creation. So many of us don't do well in presenting a Christ like image, but He is really beautiful, and loving and cares for all of you.
Posted by skeptical on September 13, 2007 11:29 PMSheila I understand your skepticism and rightly so, there's alot of hateful christians out there acting like they speak for all, but they don't.
I don't agree with people's ACTIONS, does that mean I am allowed to make them to feel less than a human being, absolutely not. I am a very firm believer in that what you do, does not and should not define you as a person.
BTW you don't know me so don't go presuming such things, most christians need to learn how to separate sin from the person, and even I fall short at times.
Posted by Heather on September 13, 2007 11:48 PMOkay, Heather: let's put it this way: suppose the person at the podium really believes, IN THEIR HEART OF HEARTS, the Dark Devil should be acknowledged? Would you roll your eyes then, too? Let me stop you there, you know you would be screaming 'holy hot dang!'
So it doesn't matter if it is
GodGoddessAllahBuddahOrKrisna
that they are talking about.
The principal was correct in withholding this girls diploma. She should apologize for breaking the rules.
Pardon: this girl's diploma. Whoops.
Posted by Sheila on September 14, 2007 08:25 AMAgain Sheila you don't know me..................
Posted by Heather on September 14, 2007 08:25 AMSo, you would merely 'roll your eyes, if that girl had gotten up and said 'praise be to that devilishly handsome creature, mr. satan'?
baloney. and you know it! I don't have to know you to know that there isn't an ounce of honesty in your claim that you would be a passive observer in such a situation.
Corrections: ~~ 1) ~~ "...resurrected to save (save) mankind: ~~ 2) ~~ latter gods: Iasion, Jason, Jesu, Yeshua or Jeud applied to the "only-begotten son" of the god-king Isra-El, who was "dressed in royal robes" and sacrificed by his heavenly father.
Posted by RG on September 14, 2007 10:37 AMSo Sheila pretty much your intolerance speaks for itself.
Just because one butthead spouts venom all them must right?
Posted by Heather on September 14, 2007 11:24 AMIf the next speaker, and boy do I think there will be one, says I give thanks to Satan and want all of you to get to know Him, or whatever she said, no problemo?
A little "Thanks Jesus" wasn`t enough for her. No, she had to add a bit more.
Hey RG, where have you been lately? missed you.
Yo Sharon: I think I'm being censured. Yesterday, above "Corrections" was my 3 or four paragraph letter describing the flatulence emitted by gods because of the product that goes into their creation. The letter is gone. Yo
Posted by RG on September 15, 2007 09:40 AMI think I saw it. Up then lost. Thanks for the Readers Digest version.
Posted by Sharon B. on September 15, 2007 06:56 PMAn abridged version reminds us that Martin Luther claimed a fart would scare away the devil. When god appears in the public sector, his holy flatulence is equivalent to a thousand skunks raising their tail. I have a Right to be free of this stench. Keep the stench in your abode, your church, or your psyche. Let us pray the moderator lets this opinion, this bias and prejudice, this common sense pass muster.
Posted by RG r22037yahoo on September 16, 2007 01:24 PMWhy RG? So all we have to listen to is your opinion, bias and prejudice???
Posted by Heather on September 16, 2007 02:03 PMI don't usually respond to a poster; however, I will make an exception so Heather can access me and we can arrange for her to imbibe on my flatulence. The stench won't be nearly as great as the "jew's"; transmogrified into a Christian anti-Semitic god, but I'll do the best I can. r22037@yahoo.com
Posted by RG on September 16, 2007 03:53 PMGo for it, RG: Let Heather put her nose immediately close to where your fart exits and give her all the time she needs to inhale its fragrance since your opinion, bias and prejudice is not enough for her. My apologies to Heather if she is just a kid. What is the matter with Heather? This blog exists to induce bias and prejudice i.e. common sense.
Posted by JVB on September 16, 2007 04:04 PM