Haggard arrogant
I was relieved to read the Aug. 30 Rocky Mountain News article announcing that the Rev. Ted Haggard will not be counseling anybody any time soon, and affirming that his cry for financial assistance was inappropriate (“Haggard told to get a job”).
I’m not the only one who thought it was outrageous for him to expect money from the public. I’d like to set up my own assistance fund for my two college kids, and one for myself so I can get an advanced degree.
What arrogance he has! Someone in his shoes should be incredibly humbled by his past actions, and embarrassed by his pompous appeal.
Gail Kirkegaard, Lakewood
Why?
he is arrogant and all arrogant people only think of themselves.
He's basically an entrepreneur in the Je$u$ Bu$ine$$ (a Protestant Preacher). As is true of all the old snake-oil vendors, used-car peddlers, "hot-stock" jockeys, and carnie flat-joint operators, when one con racket goes bust, move on. There are plenty of suckers - or sheeple - left, out there in the world, to put you back in bu$ine$$.and refill the grouch bag.
Besides, he's got the "certification" that, after 3 weeks of "intensive counselling", he's "100% heterosexual", from the top dog of one of the largest and most profitable hate-mongering rackets around. (They all look after their own.) So, that's a head start on everyone else, all by itself.
Gimme that ol' time religion!
What else do you expect?
Posted by Old Grouch on September 5, 2007 07:31 AMAnd what type of old time religion would that be? The spanish inquisition? Where only your beliefs are ok?
Old Grouch you are as bad as the Evangelicals from Colorado Springs. Thier bias and hatred for any other religion is disgusting.
I bet you are an advid listener to KRKS and thier ilk.
Posted by on September 5, 2007 08:41 AM08:41 AM, anonymous,
Never heard of the station before.
And, insofar as it applies, the satire will fit the current concept in Romanism as well; i.e., that of "Return to the Essentials", by way of a declaration concerning Romanism being the ONLY "true" form of religion, all others being "defective" or not even "true religions".
I don't expend the emotional energy necessary to "hate" something that gives me so much amusement and good belly laughter, sonny.
Posted by Old Grouch on September 5, 2007 09:06 AMMr. Kirkegaard, I heartily agree with your opinion of Ted Haggard. There are certain personalities in evangelical circles who succumb to the attraction of fame, who buy in to the idea that they are like kings and deserve to be treated as such. The honest working guy should shell out money so the famous person can 'find himself' at leisure in the style to which he has become accustomed. This is not humility at all, and the idea of repentance from such an individual is laughable.
I don't believe for a minute that this is typical of evangelicals. I have met many of the most humble, giving, and sacrificial people you could imagine among evangelical circles. There are bad apples in every crowd. Watch out for pastors who advertise their own name on the marquis.
Posted by Denise on September 5, 2007 09:51 AMgood observation Denise. Never thought of that marguis business.
Posted by Sharon B. on September 5, 2007 10:37 AMA Christian myself, I know that the vast majority of us do not fit the mold characterized by Old Grouch. He's got some kind of chip on his shoulder, but we won't take it personally. I agree too Denise. There are extreme exceptions in every line of work.
Posted by Gail, the Author of the letter on September 5, 2007 12:02 PMMaybe Haggard can have Larry Craig help him out, since Craig's going to be unemployed soon as well. Perhaps together they can do a collection drive in airport men's rooms all around the country
Posted by drew on September 5, 2007 12:20 PMGail, the Author, etc.,
Well, after some 78 years - close to 75 of them including a great deal of contact with religion, and religious leaders - including but not limited to Sunday School Superintendents, etc., - leaders such as Harvey Springer; Gerald L. KKK Smith; a fellow by name of Goff, with the Soldiers of the Cross "personal militia" bit; Swindler Blair from Calvary Temple; a Cardinal Prince of Romanism, who left his Mistress nearly half a million dollars, while continuously refusing to offer, or pay for, health benefits and such for his Clergy - along with a fair share of other Roman Prelates, and priests, - some with what might be called, "interesting habits", to spare delicate sensibilities - to list just a few; so forth: I really don't have a "chip on my shoulder" so much as it is that I no longer view the big sh-ts (supply the vowell of your choice) of any religion through rose colored glasses, and/or with awe and wonder.
I could go on to list a Lutheran Minister of Finance, who made decisions concerning whether or not it was "economically feasable" to make visitations to shut-ins, and/or those of his parish in nursing homes locally, which decisions were made on the basis of the individual's current "dues paid" status, regardless of length of membership, or financial situation - a post, by the way, now found to be quite common in the cult, where a new building, and lots of "programs", are far more inportant than any other considerations.
But, I'll spare any more particular examples, since the Je$u$ Bu$ine$$ is just that, a BU$INE$$. And the object of any business is to make a profit, keep the bottom line in the black, and pay the hot sh-its (again supply the vowell as you will) operating the business as much as is called for to keep the business running, and PROFITABLE.
For Romanism, it's usually making sure the local Prelate's entry in the next-step-up, or the Red Hat, contests doesn't fall short of the expected take per. (And DON'T EVER bring up the idea of paying reparations, or damages, for what happened to those who were the object of the priest's "interesting habits" before! Why, that would "destroy the Church", as one pudgy little pompous twerp in a purple nightgown was heard to say.)
Excellent outcome! Good riddance; and the sooner the better, I say.
But then again, my work for the past 50+ years has included those who were on the lowest end of the food chain in religion, and who suffered the most for it. Not with the stretch-limo, and top of the line sedan, crowd handing down "god's word", or "god's decrees", about things. Nuff said.
Posted by Old Grouch on September 5, 2007 01:04 PMJoin a small church then Old Grouch. It's likely to have a Pastor and lay leadership who are sincere about reaching souls for Christ.
I hope you don't take out the sins of the "followers" on the Master. He still wants a home in your heart.
Posted by Gail the author... on September 5, 2007 01:54 PMGail the Author,
"Size" has nothing to with it. The largest "mega-church" around begins - most usually - with the handfull in the living room, or in the borrowed, or rented, storefront, etc.
It's the "nature of the beast" - to use a rather pejorative term - that is the problem. The religion business - or the business of religion, whichever phraseology one might prefer - is one of competition. And success in any business competition depends upon its "merhandisability" on the one hand, and its salesmen on the other. The better salesman, with the better "pitch", has the greater "sales", and/or "numbers". The greater sales/numbers equals greater profits, which in turn equals success in the business.
Or, for the "customers" - or suckers - making up the sheeple to be sheared: You pays your money and you takes your choice of who gets you into heaven, and what kind of entertainment you have on Sunday morning along the way.
The current "best seller" among sales pitches seems to be one of "anti-gay" - in any and all ramifications. And the better salesmen, with the biggest number of customers, are the ones who peddle the pitch as vigorously as possible.
Problems arise when the salesman is caught with his own pants down, in the wrong place, with the "wrong partner", thereby indicating his own lack of belief in, or adherance to, his own sales pitch.
Fill in your own choice of sales pitch - and there are plenty to go around, all through the Je$u$ Bu$ine$$ - and the same truths apply - with the "problems" commensurate to whatever be the "violation" of the sales pitch. The Je$u$ Bu$ine$$ has a whole mythology book to pick from, mix together, and peddle as suits the salesman. It's known as the "Proof-Text" approach, or sales pitch. It doesn't matter what the pitch means - if it ever means anything at all - it can be SOLD, and there's a "Proof-Text" for "guarantee".
My choice of a "Master" - if any - is not to be found anywhere in the Bu$ine$$. Thanks, anyway.
Posted by Old Grouch on September 5, 2007 02:39 PMOG .... I attended Calvery Temple in the 50's did Honcho Blair ever get indicted for fraud??
If not, he shoud have!
Blair is just one of the reasons I am no longer a church go-er! I am not sure if I am even a believer...more agnostic than anything these days.
Religion is a crutch that many,many people need to cope in this world...it seems to justify their existence. I don't need it, but, I will say it is a little better crutch than drugs and alcohol.
But then......a nice hot Toddy by the fireplace on a cold winters night .......
Posted by Anon on September 5, 2007 02:50 PMWell Old Grouch, you do seem to be firm in your faith. I just hope your ears are open when He comes knocking, because if you refuse to listen that one last time, you'll miss the opportunity of a lifetime to change your mind.
OG
"The current "best seller" among sales pitches seems to be one of "anti-gay"
I humbly disagree; the big "seller' from the pulpit these days is the "prosperity gospel" -- Jesus wants you to be prosperous and gain wealth. Of course, tithe heavily to keep the blessings coming.
I still consider myself a true believer, a Christian. But the modern churches have totally turned me away from "organized religion". They appear to all be scams of one type or another.
You speak wisely when you say that they are in the Je$u$ Bu$ine$$. I think Jesus would throw a fit worse than the one over the money changers in the temple if He ever ventured into one of the so called Christian Churches of today -- they're either elitist social clubs, or holier than thou money raisers.
Posted by on September 5, 2007 04:25 PMAnon, 02:50 PM
Blair not only got indicted, he got convicted in Federal District Court of 17 felony counts of fraud., After which, he went out and begged an additional $1 and 1/2 million + - ostensibly to make some kind of resitution to those he scammed in the first place. Instead, he remarked that he had "no moral duty" towards them, as they were expected to know the "high risks" of investment; and he used the bulk of the second round of scam to pay off the debts HE INCURRED for his wife's mink coat, etc.
Just another good ol' boy peddling "salvation" and Je$u$.
Gail the Author,
Since I am already a Christian - and have been one for well over 50+ years, I really don't spend much time listening for whoever, or whatever, else might come knocking at my door; which I don't open to sales pitches anyway. Thanks.
04:25 PM,
Yes, the "prosperity gospel" is a fairly wide spread pitch today; but mostly outside Colorado.
Around here, with the biggest, and most affluent, hate-mongering set up in the United States down in Horseturd Junction (Colorado Springs if you prefer), the anti-gay pitch gets more push; and cons more suckers in the long run.
Tie it in with the anti-Halloween/Sex-Is-Evil/Drugs-Are-Horrible/Hate-All-The-Rest spook show the guy's got going out in Arvada, or thereabouts - and franchises out for a cut of the take every year - and all the GOOD "christians" have a choice of "holy places", in which to Praise de Lawd! And, of course, let everyone else know just how "superior" their "brand" is.
Posted by Old Grouch on September 5, 2007 05:23 PMOG
Check out the Heritage Christian Center in Aurora sometime. They preach prosperity, with a 10% "recommended" tithe -- preacher lives in a $2Million+ home, cars to make a rich kid drool and a trophy wife who wears a couple hundred grand in jewels on the stage -- give me that old time religion and pass the plate...
Posted by on September 5, 2007 06:22 PMOLD GROUCH,
DIRT NAP?
06:22 PM,
Thank you for the information. So far anyway, that group seems to have managed to sort of "fly under the radar", so to speak.
I think there was an article a while back. Something to do with some issue - local, such as parking space, or such as that - but as to what they actually have as their special pitch, I don't remember that there was much said on that.
Might have been one of Torkelson's columns. But, I don't bother with her all that much. She knows even less about religion that our "theology" pundits, who filled some 300+ postings with fatuous flatulence the other day.
Might it be that by way of "flying under the radar", they are avoiding the public eye? And, perhaps, escaping the critiques of the "high-flyers" - such as Haggard's bunch, the Dobsonites, etc., - who do make "news", or even "headlines", by using the old low profile approach?
Anyway, thanks again for the info.
Posted by Old Grouch on September 6, 2007 11:47 AM