Make better choices
The folks profiled in the Aug. 29 Rocky Mountain News article on Colorado poverty (“Poverty rate in Colorado rises to 10.6 percent; U.S. figure dips”) have one thing in common: no men. Where are the husbands?
Heaven forbid we bring it up, but these women and girls are short-circuiting their futures by getting pregnant out of wedlock. The best anti-poverty program ever conceived is marriage. Not only that, committed relationships like marriage don’t cost the taxpayers anything.
Folks need to make better choices. No one should get pregnant unless they are over 21, married and already have a good job. Anything else is unfair to themselves, their children and the taxpayers. Birth control is out there — use it, people!
Pat Desrosiers, Denver
It's takes two to make a baby. Why does the man (dead beat dad) get away without any responsibility? Because nothing changes for him when he creates life. He splits the scene and leaves the woman holding the baby. He probably told her that he loves her and he'll stick by and she probably believed him. And in this universe marriage is absolutely not prevention for poverty. And getting married just because she's pregnant is the worst reason to get married. I do agree that birth control needs to be used, but in order for young people to use it they have to know about it. Parents who are religious and parents who are just embarrassed need to pull their heads out of the sand and educate their children about contraception. Education will not give them sexual urges, nature's already done that. Education will help them make more informed decisions and, in turn, empower them to say no more often because they understand the consequences.
Posted by Diana on September 6, 2007 01:32 AMMaybe young girls should learn to keep their legs closed. No one ever got pregnant from giving a blowjob.
Posted by on September 6, 2007 02:25 AM2:25 you think like ole billie c.
Diana I guess you missed the great education debate in the republic of boulder schools where they were told to go try it out and if it feels good do it.
so if a parent has a religious belief or embarassed are the ones who need to talk to their kids. What about all the parents who dont care what their kids are doing? why not check into the kids that are getting pregnant and see where there background is. oops that wouldnt be pc now would it.
now the education you speak of is it on how to put on a condom or get the pill or the morning after pill, or as a last resort avoid sex till marriage? being responsible is something kids dont have a clue on and do need help from their parents but not from the schools, just look at boulder
Hey 2:25 AM ...Maybe young guys should keep their zipper up!! You know "spare the rod" there will be no child!
Sounds pretty stupid doesn't it?? Your logic is selfish,sexist and immature..... go away!!!!
Posted by A on September 6, 2007 07:02 AManother example of fools spewing crap. all of you are the problem here.
btw what demographic of people have multiple children at a young age ??
where are the PARENTS of these kids ?
the problem is people DONT PARENT anymore, and could care less about what their kids do. it has nothing to do with females keeping their legs closed or men just getting " blow job" it takes PARENTS PARENTING YOU IMBECEILS
no wonder our country is going down the tubes
Posted by Fresh on September 6, 2007 07:23 AMLest the letter writer forget, a number of the folks on the poverty rolls of members of the military who, when their Guard units got called up suddenly saw their paychecks get cut, forcing their families to at the very least apply for food stamps.
In addition, a number of the folks below the poverty line are illegal immigrants, who lower the wage base for everyone else - you know the ones who allow CEOs multimillion dollar salaries while whining to Congress that without illegal immigrants & job offshoring US companies can't compete.
Posted by Mary on September 6, 2007 07:27 AMHmmm...
Funny...I know alot of young couples, over the age of 21, each with, one, two or three children...all born in wedlock ...who have filed for bankruptcy because they couldn't make ends meet even with both parents working.
So, committed relationships like marriage can still cost the taxpayers, Pat.
But, I do agree with you. Birth control is out there and people should use it!
Posted by Thomas on September 6, 2007 07:57 AMPat's right.Bastardy equals poverty.Bastardy also equals every form of abuse and neglect that can be perpetrated on a child.If you would destroy a people,there's no better way to do it than to emulate the folkie/hippie Anti-American Left and criminalize marriage.
Diana's comments are proof positive that the Left's mantras have become the unconscious assumptions of the public at large.Two examples will suffice: A)The word "Dad" is ALWAYS preceded by the word "Deadbeat".B)The story of the young woman seduced, made pregnant,then abandoned.Makes me wanna say "Duh".You'd think after thirty-four years of Roe v. Wade girls might just consider getting signatures on a marriage certificate BEFORE inviting a feller to take off his raincoat.
I married at age 27, and had a vasectomy six months later. Best thing I ever did. We travel, dine out often and have paid our mortgage in full. We are also on track to retire at 50 and see even more of the world.
Having kids and then abandoning them is one of the most selfish acts anyone can commit. Allowing yourself to get pregnant to trap the man or so you "will have someone to love" is equally repugnant.
Posted by Philip on September 6, 2007 08:26 AMIt is amazing in an age with mass availablity of birth control, that we have issues such as oops pregnancy and abortion. Yes, it takes two to make a baby. But only one parent gets the money and benies from the tax payer. Failed social welfare has encouraged such behavior. Have kids, retire on us. We are reaping the wind.
Posted by Tom on September 6, 2007 09:21 AMSo what's new, certainly not young girls getting pregnant. It was not that long ago in America, and many other places in the world, when girls as young as 13 got married and had two or three kids by the time they were of age to marry by todays standards.
The thing that is different now is that the federal government uses our tax money to support them when they are abandoned by the young men who got them that way. Is it both the young girls and the young boys faults? Partly, but it is more so the parent's and society's fault for allowing this irresponsibility to exist unabated by ignoring the root cause of it which is the lack of sex education caused by the very ones who cry out about a lack of morality in society. The fundamental evangelical, fire and brimstone, holier than you are, charlatanry christians.
Alan, usually your posts are well reasoned. Sex eduacation is taught throughout a child's educational experience. Yet we have the highest numbers of single parents in this nations history. In 1947 the most intact family in the US was the black family. Now 75% of black children are born into single parent households. I am not suggesting that sex ed is the cause, but it is not the solution either. I wish it were that easy.
Posted by Tom on September 6, 2007 10:25 AMIt may be taught but, what does that teaching include? That is the salient point. Sex education may well include anatomy, various preventive methods even the progress of groth in the womb but, does it also involve the cost factors involved in the birth and raising of the child, common infant health problems, correct feeding of and all other ancillary costs that are unknown until they happen. I believe that this may well be a factor in why many young girls are abandoned by the father of their child, especially among the poor. I also believe that the real sex education comes after the fact of pregnancy and birth for these reasons. I also think that while sex education has been around for some time, it does not teach the tools needed to prevent this situation. Those, of course, are my opinions based on my personal experience and observations.
Posted by Allen Campbell on September 6, 2007 11:46 AMMy husband took our girls to the Museum of Nature and Science over the weekend. They wanted to see the Titanic exhibit and IMAX movie about the Titanic.
When my 10 year old daughter got home she asked me to TIVO the movie Titanic if it ever came on.It happened to be on that night. So my husband and her watched it. I knew there was a sex scene in it. It showed no nudity and was tastefully done. If anyone has seen the movie it was in a car and the windows were steamed up as they were making out.
I knew this would be in there,because I have seen the movie before. So I debated with myself whether or not to tell my husband about the scene.I decided to not to tell him and see what he would say and how he would react.(sort of like a joke on him)
My daughter asked him after the scene what were they doing in the car.My husband said, " Talk to your mother about it".
She asked me and I explained the were having sex and even though they fell in love,probably should not have been having sex because she was engaged to another man.She asked me why her dad couldn't explain that to her. I told her that her father loves her very much ,but doesn't feel comfortable explain sex and stuff to girls. If she was a boy it would probably be different.
I told her for now her father is leaving it up to me to explain sex,and woman issues with her. I explained to her no matter what the question I will always be truthful and she can come to me and be open and honest.
I also explained there is going to come a time where she may have a boyfriend and want to have sex.If that happens she has 2 decisions to make . One is no sex until marriage or to have sex responsibly and come to us for birth control,because having a baby at an early age is not the right thing to choose.
I fell in love with her father at age 17. I have been with him for 28 years. We waited until we could afford to have children and take care of them and were emotionally ready.
She asked what was our life like without kids all those years. I told her we traveled,went out alot,and worked hard building toward our future when we were ready to have children.
My daughter is 10 and already asking alot of questions. There are at least 2 side to every issue.You can't just tell kids to wait for marriage before having sex,you have to counter balance it with education on protecting themselves so they do not become parents when they are not ready financially and emotionally.
My husband and I practiced birth control for many years without any oops.I don't believe in oops pregnancies.When it was time to have children ,I had no problem having them.
Except a few miscarriages,which were sad,but part of life.
Educating children early about sex and other issues in a straight forward discussion and always having an open door ask me anything policy so that they can come to you for guidence not others will make children grow up to be responsible and make better choices.
At least strive for that as parents. Parenting is hard work. Do your job. You had the children it is important to be a parent not their friend . They have friends,they need a parent.
Posted by Can I get an AMEN! on September 6, 2007 12:05 PMThat is one good thing I learned over in Germany; they have sex ed classes early, and an extremely low teenage pregancy rate. I don't think that's a coincidence.
So I began talking to my son early about sex, and it wasn't a one-time only discussion- we revisit it periodically. Contrary to what people think, it doesn't give them the idea- they'll get that already. In our discussions, we put the focus where it belongs- on the potential baby. Is it fair to the baby to have young parents, can they support it, etc. We've talked about how the optimum situation would be when a couple is married, and has planned for the baby. But I've also talked to him about what to do if he feels he can't wait and the possibilities for each situation- for example, how no birth control is perfect, or that some women may lie about being on it.
Because we've talked openly, my son feels like he can come to us with questions. Although some times it's hard! For example, right before he turned 11 in July, he came to us because he overheard some kids talking about blowjobs and wet dreams, and he wanted to know what they were. Oh boy...
Posted by fiesty on September 6, 2007 12:39 PM"I don't believe in oops pregnancies."
I do. My youngest brother was a bill, condom, AND diaphram baby. (My stepmom wanted to be triply sure- she felt 3 kids in the house was enough. And she was conscientous about taking her meds.) It happens.
Posted by fiesty on September 6, 2007 12:41 PMBut fiesty,
Germany has a more developed welfare state then the US.
What does that mean for the argument that welfare encourages bastardy?
Could it mean that fact based comprehensive sex education works?
Posted by on September 6, 2007 01:27 PMBabies are just babies. Any grown man that must, repeat, must refer to some of them as bastards, is one himself.
Women rarely need to use this word, why do you two or three, probably men who`s DNA caught them, need this term?
God, Mother Nature, Evolution, take your pick intended humans to mate early, often and with many partners, just like chimps, to insure a healthy gene pool.
All the rest is culture. All of us came from pregnant 12 year olds or younger, back in time.
The big problem is the run away dads, who contribute nothing, not money, time or effort to their offspring.
Young girls can be easily manipulated with talk of love. Parents need to get girls on reliable birth control young. There is always rape to contend with.
Birth control beats self control for the prevention of pregnancies, but for some odd reason the "girls are always the responsible party" can`t seem to understand this.
Posted by Sharon B. on September 6, 2007 04:00 PMI don't understand why the one calling me names and spewing venom won't give a name. Could it mean that you're using faulty logic and you know it. I didn't mention Boulder. It's not one of my favorite places. This isn't a Boulder issue. This isn't a just a liberal or conservative problem. This is a national problem. Sex and reproductive education means answering your childrens questions as soon as they start to ask. Don't just tell them about condoms and the pill. Tell them that they can only lose their virginity once. Tell them that the dynamics of the relationship will change dramatically as soon as they engage in any sexual activity. And fiesty is right. It's not just a one-time talk. It should be on-going. That's parental responsibility. Telling your child to wait until marriage and leave it at that is just as irresponsible as not telling them anything. I gave birth to my first and probably only son just over a year ago at the age of 41. I will answer any questions he's got and I will be looking out for educational opportunities which are everywhere. I'm already writing him a journal about all of my beliefs because the possibility exists that I won't be here to tell him. His father beat me up as soon as we got a positive on the pregnancy test. I filed a police report and don't want his influence in our lives. So, yes, he's a lying drunken dead beat dad. So be it, I'm no longer a victim. And there is not welfare here in Colorado anymore. I never sought any kind of public assistance before I got pregnant. Nobody wanted to hire me while I was pregnant even though I have a great employment record so I went to social services and sought help. I did get food stamps but only temporarily. I'm getting myself out of this place I put myself in. Thanks to budget cuts nobody's getting free money. I could have signed up for TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families) and made $1.80/hour for 40 hours/week (no fluctuation) learning how to fill our job applications and how to conduct myself in an interview, but it wasn't worth it. If I got a supplemental job I would be out of the program. There are no other programs that just give out free money. I was sleeping in my car and desperate so I checked. And I was in the work force paying taxes for over twenty years. So don't go crying about your money going to welfare because it doesn't here in Colorado anymore. Parents should also teach and encourage their kids to read voraciously. Read everything; books, magazines, newspapers, pamphlets. No, we can't believe everything we read, but the more we read the better we're able to decide for ourselves what's plausible and what's not. Maybe a child will read about the things his/her parents are too embarrassed to talk about. The more he reads, the better he can think for himself. That's what fair to the child. Teaching him critical thinking and how to not only survive without his parents, but how to thrive without them.
Posted by Diana on September 6, 2007 04:07 PMI don't understand why the one calling me names and spewing venom won't give a name. Could it mean that you're using faulty logic and you know it. I didn't mention Boulder. It's not one of my favorite places. This isn't a Boulder issue. This isn't a just a liberal or conservative problem. This is a national problem. Sex and reproductive education means answering your childrens questions as soon as they start to ask. Don't just tell them about condoms and the pill. Tell them that they can only lose their virginity once. Tell them that the dynamics of the relationship will change dramatically as soon as they engage in any sexual activity. And fiesty is right. It's not just a one-time talk. It should be on-going. That's parental responsibility. Telling your child to wait until marriage and leave it at that is just as irresponsible as not telling them anything. I gave birth to my first and probably only son just over a year ago at the age of 41. I will answer any questions he's got and I will be looking out for educational opportunities which are everywhere. I'm already writing him a journal about all of my beliefs because the possibility exists that I won't be here to tell him. His father beat me up as soon as we got a positive on the pregnancy test. I filed a police report and don't want his influence in our lives. So, yes, he's a lying drunken dead beat dad. So be it, I'm no longer a victim. And there is not welfare here in Colorado anymore. I never sought any kind of public assistance before I got pregnant. Nobody wanted to hire me while I was pregnant even though I have a great employment record so I went to social services and sought help. I did get food stamps but only temporarily. I'm getting myself out of this place I put myself in. Thanks to budget cuts nobody's getting free money. I could have signed up for TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families) and made $1.80/hour for 40 hours/week (no fluctuation) learning how to fill our job applications and how to conduct myself in an interview, but it wasn't worth it. If I got a supplemental job I would be out of the program. There are no other programs that just give out free money. I was sleeping in my car and desperate so I checked. And I was in the work force paying taxes for over twenty years. So don't go crying about your money going to welfare because it doesn't here in Colorado anymore. Parents should also teach and encourage their kids to read voraciously. Read everything; books, magazines, newspapers, pamphlets. No, we can't believe everything we read, but the more we read the better we're able to decide for ourselves what's plausible and what's not. Maybe a child will read about the things his/her parents are too embarrassed to talk about. The more he reads, the better he can think for himself. That's what fair to the child. Teaching him critical thinking and how to not only survive without his parents, but how to thrive without them.
Posted by Diana on September 6, 2007 04:07 PMI don't understand why the one calling me names and spewing venom won't give a name. Could it mean that you're using faulty logic and you know it. I didn't mention Boulder. It's not one of my favorite places. This isn't a Boulder issue. This isn't a just a liberal or conservative problem. This is a national problem. Sex and reproductive education means answering your children’s questions as soon as they start to ask. Don't just tell them about condoms and the pill. Tell them that they can only lose their virginity once. Tell them that the dynamics of the relationship will change dramatically as soon as they engage in any sexual activity. And fiesty is right. It's not just a one-time talk. It should be on-going. That's parental responsibility. Telling your child to wait until marriage and leave it at that is just as irresponsible as not telling them anything. I gave birth to my first and probably only son just over a year ago at the age of 41. I will answer any questions he's got and I will be looking out for educational opportunities which are everywhere. I'm already writing him a journal about all of my beliefs because the possibility exists that I won't be here to tell him. His father beat me up as soon as we got a positive on the pregnancy test. I filed a police report and don't want his influence in our lives. So, yes, he's a lying drunken dead beat dad. So be it, I'm no longer a victim. And there is not welfare here in Colorado anymore. I never sought any kind of public assistance before I got pregnant. Nobody wanted to hire me while I was pregnant even though I have a great employment record so I went to social services and sought help. I did get food stamps but only temporarily. I'm getting myself out of this place I put myself in. Thanks to budget cuts nobody's getting free money. I could have signed up for TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families) and made $1.80/hour for 40 hours/week (no fluctuation) learning how to fill our job applications and how to conduct myself in an interview, but it wasn't worth it. If I got a supplemental job I would be out of the program. There are no other programs that just give out free money. I was sleeping in my car and desperate so I checked. And I was in the work force paying taxes for over twenty years. So don't go crying about your money going to welfare because it doesn't here in Colorado anymore. Parents should also teach and encourage their kids to read voraciously. Read everything; books, magazines, newspapers, pamphlets. No, we can't believe everything we read, but the more we read the better we're able to decide for ourselves what's plausible and what's not. Maybe a child will read about the things his/her parents are too embarrassed to talk about. The more he reads, the better he can think for himself. That's what fair to the child. Teach him critical thinking and how to not only survive without his parents, but how to thrive without them.
Posted by Diana on September 6, 2007 04:11 PMI apologize for the duplication. My computer told me there was an error and it didn't go. Thank you for your understanding.
Posted by Diana on September 6, 2007 04:14 PMDiana, thank you for telling your story. When the error message comes on, leave the site, come back, and usually your post is there.
Hope things pick up for you.
For all of those anti-choice persons, look at her line about people not wanting to hire her when she was pregnant.
See a reason for some abortions here? No?
Thought so.
Posted by Sharon B. on September 6, 2007 06:53 PMIt took some courage for Diana to tell her story,and I think it appropriate that it repeated three times.Her story proves my point in brutally stark terms.The fact that she didn't apply for TANF,which most of you would recognize by its former name-Aid to Families with Dependent Children- indicates several things:First,as a 41 year old,she already had job skills,and could re-enter the work force fairly easily,unlike the thousands of fourteen and fifteen year olds who comprise the overwhelming majority of never-married moms.Second,given the violent nature of her relationship with the alleged father,she almost certainly was extremely reluctant to get involved with the TANF/AFDC requirement that an applicant MUST file a paternity/child support action,so she didn't apply.
Something she didn't tell you was who paid for the expense of her child's birth.If she was unemployed and living in her car,she probably didn't finance it herself,so it probably got paid for through one or another of the public health programs-in other words,you paid.
Something else she didn't tell you was how she managed to ignore the behavioral warning signs that all violent people,including her ex-partner,manifest long in advance of any overt act.Or why she didn't have "The Talk" about birth control with him before intimacy took place.
Was her biological clock ticking so loudly she just didn't care about the consequences?Had she listened for so long to the hippie left's braying that someone else is responsible that she believed it?Well,now she's got a fatherless boy whose mom has no use for men.Just wait until he hits adolescence and starts acting like the enemy.
Most species are sexually dimorphic.How come we're the only one that needs sex ed?
Posted by Jimminy on September 6, 2007 10:33 PMMost species are sexually dimorphic.How come we're the only one that needs sex ed?
Posted by Jimminy on September 6, 2007 10:34 PMOops! I double-posted too.Oh well,it bears repeating.
Posted by Jimminy on September 6, 2007 10:37 PMand now you all see Jimminy for what he is. A tired little man with a hang up about women. And now he will brag about his lady and all his past ladies, and bore the hell out of us once more.
He read Diana's story, dismissed it, and then tried to read her mind and judge her. If she got help through the state, I am glad we were there to help. Hope she gets more help.
He never mentions rape and we all know it happens.
A rape victim should claim it was consensual and make the dad pay instead of going to jail. I know one woman who did just that. Raised a fine son but he carries his dads behavior in his mind all the time.
Posted by Sharon B. on September 7, 2007 12:00 AMMentioning rape is Sharon's gig,not mine.I've no first hand acquaintance whatever with such acts,so I'm not much of an authority,and I'd really rather defer to those whose experience perhaps does give them first hand acquaintance.I think I can say,though, that being subjected to such an assault might render the victim unable to look rationally at gender relationships,and I do have to wonder what damage such a victim might do to her opposite-sex child.Abuse begets abuse.John Wayne Gacy and Aileen Wuornos were someone's fine child once upon a time.
Maybe Diana will come back on this thread and tell us just what she WAS thinking when she got herself and an innocent kid into the jam they're in.
Oh yeah......Mrs. Jimminy is eminently worth bragging on and I'll keep on doing it as long as I live.I think it'd be nice if Mr.Sharon had similar things to say.
You sure have an interesting perspective of my life, Jimminy. I participate in open dialogue to grow mentally and spiritually. It’s important to me to listen with an open mind and heart. And I find being honest about my shortcomings and aspirations reaffirms my self-esteem and in turn liberates and empowers me. You made several statements that were less than accurate. Of course, you can’t be expected to know these things. Even with a psychology degree, I doubt you’ve been a single pregnant woman in this lifetime. So in the interest of precision I’m going to address these points.
1. TANF is not AFDC with a new name. When I asked about AFDC, I was told that the program no longer exists due to policy changes and budget cuts and TANF took its place.
We all knew AFDC as the reward for popping out babies: more babies, more money.
2. I was eligible for TANF when I moved back home to Colorado at the beginning of my third trimester. I spent my third and fourth days back perusing Social Services’ programs and asking lots of questions. One does not have to name the father to receive TANF benefits. I declined TANF because one can make more money working part-time anywhere. I spent the next four weeks turning in applications, but to no avail. I chose jobs I’d excelled at before; server, delivery driver, secretary, data entry. Only one potential employer said aloud, “I can’t hire you because you’re pregnant.” Yes, it’s illegal and I contacted the Department of Labor. But I kept my faith and my positive attitude.
3. In order to receive child support I would have had to name the father. I know who he is and that’s what scares me. I don’t want him influencing my son in any way. And the paternity test is a simple saliva swab that’s 99% accurate. If a father pays child support the potential of him having visitation rights increase ten-fold. He showed me with his fists how he feels about fatherhood.
4. I went on Medicaid. I thought that was obvious. I’m not ashamed because I know who I am and what my intentions are. No matter how much anyone wants to gripe about their taxes paying for my baby, I can’t send him back. And I don’t want to. We can’t turn the clock back and make a different choice. I was pregnant and without employment. I needed health care for my baby. I made the responsible choice for my baby.
5. Yes, there were signs that clearly showed the sperm donor's potential for violence. I was too drunk to pay attention to. I’ve been sober for nearly two years and I’m getting clearer everyday.
6. I’m a lesbian who never planned on having babies. I’ve had one serious man in my life but he was fifteen years ago and now dead. For a brief moment, even in my drunken state, I thought that Mr. Violent could be serious. My biological clock has only told me when to wake up, go to work and go to bed. Occasionally it tells me when the seasons are about to change, but that’s it. That must be a difficult concept to grasp for anyone who believes that women are just baby-making machines.
7. We used condoms and gel which shows that no contraception is 100% effective.
8. We discussed the possible consequences. He lied. He told me that he loved me and he would stand by me no matter what. Hindsight is 20/20, but I can’t go back. That sure makes me hesitant about trusting again, but I’ll try not to get too bitter.
9. Please re-read my earlier writing: “I’m getting myself out of this place I put myself.” I’m accepting responsibility for my own actions. Seeking help does not mean shifting blame.
10. Being without a father isn’t the end of the world. No matter how hard anyone shakes a finger at me, a good father isn’t going to magically appear. My son’s good fortune, besides being my son, is that he’s got a handful of good father-figures (none of them lovers of mine or each other). They’re men who are, among other things, confident, responsible and sober.
11. Your last sentence tells more about you than about anybody else. I feel bad for you that you’re spending so much energy wishing bad upon a harmless helpless little boy you’ve never met. Fortunately for my son, my wishes and intentions are more powerful than yours. In fact, mine are so strong and abundant that I’ve already sent some your way.
Peace.
Diana,
Your openess must be difficult for you,but I do get the sense that it is also a way to heal and make yourself stronger.
No one is perfect. We all have things that we have done and hard times that we have faced.What makes us human is the ability to make mistakes and learn from them.I think you are on your way.
I watched my mother make many mistakes with men in her life. She had 4 children by 3 different fathers. Her boyfriends and finally my stepfather were always abusive.I always said to myself I would never let a man hit me and I would only have children if I was in a strong marriage.I met both of those goals.
I don't fault my mother for her choices. She never told us what her childhood was like.She was an only child of alcoholic parents that were on the fringes of the Mafia in Chicago and sent her to Catholic boarding school.She never discussed the boarding school and refused to let us step into a Catholic Church.One can only wonder what her life was like.That's all I know. I wanted to ask her when she was dying about her earlier life,but didn't have the heart to bring it up. I thought it might be to painful.
Make the best with what you have now.Raise your son to be a strong ,intelligent man.Teach him to respect himself and the people he loves in his life.
It is weird that sometimes we have to go through a rough road to finally work our way to the smooth and even one.That does make us stronger.
I wish you all the best on your new journey,it sounds like you are on the right path.
I read this quote the other day,I wrote it down.
There are several good protections against temptations, but the surest is cowardice.
Mark Twain
You are not a coward.Peace be with you,your son,and the loved ones in your life.
Excellent post,Diana.Lucid,logical,and mostly right.And it proves my points.Thank you for the backup....I do have a couple of clarifications to make,though.TANF is still AFDC-only now it has a really stiff work/education requirement.See,the Welfare Department changes the name of all its programs and divisions every so often,in order to persuade the public that said programs are improvements on the old.Thus we now have the Department of Human Service,preceded by the Department of Social Services,preceded by the Department of Public Welfare,preceded by the Department of Relief,but it's all the same old nonsense.
I've said before on this forum that I spent several decades working in the belly of that particular beast and I know its diet only too well.
I hope your kid turns out OK,although in view of what the bastardy culture has done to African-American family life in general and African-American men in particular(to cite just one of many,many examples),I'd say you've got some trials ahead.Keep your eyes and ears open.
Abortions are cheap and easy. I suggest if you cannot keep your legs shut, it is time to think whether you can afford a kid. If not.....
We should not be responsible for your mistakes.
Posted by Dravur on September 7, 2007 02:40 PMDiana, please do not fall into the trap of reading the posts of Jimminy and Dravur. They are little men of no consequence. Thank you for answering them because your writing is eloquent. But don`t do it again. We can only stand so much of their woman hating drivil.
Take advantages of all this state can offer you. Network with other single mothers and let us know how you get on.
Do not defend or explain to these losers. It only excites them. Don`t encourage them and keep on growing.
Posted by Sharon B. on September 7, 2007 05:44 PMI happen to be Diana's sister. I have known her forever. She has/ had every right to apply for medicaid to insure that my nephew would be born healthy in a safe environment. She has worked for over 25 years and paid her taxes in this society which funds such programs. I don't have to tell you, that she is bright, inquisitive, opinionated and steadfast in her love for my nephew.
I would like to meet the "man" who opted for abortion to rid himself of his unwanted pregnancy. (that speculum is a bitch isn't it?) what do you know about it? Shut up! Nobody is perfect and especially not you who judge and think that you are better than every one else because it didn't happen to you. If you need advice, look down, if you look really hard you might see that YOU have penises! (probably... however slight) You're MEN (term used loosely) you have never had to be a single mom so get over yourselves! Shit happens! and there's nothing you can say here or anywhere else that will ever change it so accept it or not, your opinion doesn't really matter
Dravur, it sure must be nice to be so perfect that you make no mistakes. I think you are a sorry SOB that you think murder is the solution.
E makes the very valid point that Diana worked for decades, contributing her taxes etc. So she's having a tough period- she earned the help by her hard work!
Posted by fiesty on September 7, 2007 11:36 PMThank you sisters! Can I get an AMEN, Sharon B, fiesty and e, I feel your love. There’s nothing like the bond between women and no, not in a lesbian way. I knew the fellas would jump on that one. I understand that I don’t have to answer to any of them or justify my life. To tell you the truth, I’m a writer and I need to keep my writing chops lubricated. And the guys are such easy marks. I would feel sorry for them, but I really prefer using my power on useful endeavors. And besides, we’re all on the path we’re supposed to be on. As long as we’re smarter today than we were yesterday then we’re doing something right.
Jimminy and Dravur and whoever else (if the no-name wasn’t one of you): bless your hearts. You really piled it on. Dravur, you’re right; abortions are easy for the sperm donor and cheap for silver spoon kids. Didn’t you ever wonder what your various girlfriends needed that $600 for? And we all pay for each other in one way or another. We share this earth, we share the roads, the stores, the mountains, the restaurants. How many of us have made the mistake of leaving our food delivery driver a crappy tip? He or she is providing a service that they need compensation for. Otherwise we should pick up our own food. Was that your cigarette butt on the ground or your Big Mac wrapper in the parking lot? I pick up other peoples' litter regularly. Have I ever had to breathe your car’s exhaust? And it goes the other way too. Maybe I got an over-priced tune-up at your dad’s shop. Maybe you marked up the price of the watercolor you sold me at your garage sale. Maybe you pinched a bud or two from the quarter you located for me. It’s a big give and take. The day we stop paying for each other is the last day.
Jimminy, you’re arguing a moot technicality. You don’t work for social services and nobody cares what they call the changes. What matters is the benefits are not there like they use to be. You’re less than honest. I gave you credit for having a degree in psychology and a chance to come clean. What you have is experience working with the desperate public. Join the club. I’m as qualified as you are in making psychological evaluations of people. I worked at King Soopers (Queen Soopers!) on 9th & Corona for twelve years. That was like twelve years of psychology and sociology classes combined. So let me do you now. You are condescending and offensive and have made very few points, but you’ve made several personal jabs. That tells me you have a low self-esteem and not much control in your real life. You use derogatory language toward helpless children which makes a strong statement about your challenge of getting past the bad parts of your upbringing. You’re trying hard to tear down my son just as he’s learning to stand which proves that misery does love company. You told me that I was right about the items you wanted to focus on. Oddly, you didn’t give me kudos for encouraging reading and critical thinking skills. This might mean that you’re intimidated by reading, thinking or women who can think and/or read. Please know that I’m not trying to tear you down to be mean. I’m trying to help you as you’ve helped me. I can tell you’re an intelligent man who knows where and when to get his lessons. And one other thing Jimminy, do you think I’m black?!?!
Nice response Diana. Obviously, these "men" don't have a clue, and you're right they are "easy" targets. They probably share two or three brain cells each. Anyone who would blatently say that abortion is either cheap or easy has not done the homework. Abortion is horrible. It's haunting. It tears innocent babies out of their mothers womb from limb to limb. They don't realize that a person's spinal and nervous system is one of the very first things to develop after conception. Those little innocent ones FEEL it. It's not "easy" on the mother either. Any feeling human being will have guilt and remorse about this killing for the rest of her life, even if nobody else knows about it, she does. Maybe the "abortion" guy should have his limbs ripped from his body and laid at the bottom of some doctor's hazardous material bucket. The whole thing sickens me. These guys have NO right to any opinion or stand in judgement of anything that they know nothing about. Love you Diana.
E
Jesus Christ!!! I agree with Sharon B. on a couple of points! What's happening to me? I'm scared.
Posted by truthy on September 8, 2007 04:38 PMTruthy, take a deep breath, it can happen to anyone. I sometimes agree with you too. see, it isn`t so scary.
Posted by Sharon B. on September 8, 2007 05:16 PMWell,now.I looked again at Pat Desrosiers' original letter. Pat pointed out that unmarried parenthood is bad for everyone.It is,always has been,always will be....The best that the pro-bastardy faction has been able to put forward on this thread in rebuttal is the(perhaps true) story of an unmarried-by-choice mom plagued by alcoholism and gender dysfunctions,who nevertheless gets by,sort of.Anecdotes don't make bastardy NOT child abuse
Posted by Jimminy on September 8, 2007 10:39 PMOh, so that makes it ok to attack innocent children? Is that what you're saying? And by the way what the hell is "bastardy" ? That term in itself should spark ire in any human mother on the planet. Call my kids a bastard to my face...whoever would have the nerve to do that would be walking around without a face to spew their dribble from. With the lack of intellect and acceptance that I am reading from some of the "men" in this forum, I have to wonder how we ever made it to the top of the food chain. God help us all!
Posted by e on September 8, 2007 10:59 PMIt's okay, e, he's got nothing but his attempts at personal blows. Jimminy, the rest of the world is not the enemy. If we work together we can solve some problems. You're obviously hurting about some things that happened long before this thread, but it doesn't have to go on like that. This is a great way to come together and identify problems and discuss solutions. You assumed I was a different race than what I am, you continue to use derogatory remarks and you use psychological terms inappropriately. And I forgive you because carrying grudges isn't healthy. Instead, why don't we brainstorm some solutions to single motherhood. We must understand that we can't send any current living babies back. You know that, right? What we can do is talk openly about prevention. That is what I mentioned in my first comment to Pat's letter. Can we agree to talk about working toward a solution? I suggest establishing open communication with our children so that they know they can ask us anything. Then when they do ask, answer them honestly. If we don't have the answer, we'll go find it together. Any other suggestions?
Posted by Diana on September 8, 2007 11:23 PMAh yes, someone worked "in the belly of the beast" as a janitor, I suspect.
Marriage is a human social invention. Women, like all animals, have and raise offspring by themselves. True, we have a more complicated world than our ancestors, but groups of women raised children together in the past, the men were off to war, exploring or hunting, and women can do it today.
My grandmother told me about kids who hardly knew they had fathers, the dads were working on the railroads, tunnels and bridges all over the country.
Bastard is an opinion, there is no such thing. It is a label and not a description, e, please remember that Jimminy can`t write a post on the subject of marriage and family without using this term.
Why he must post in absolute or universal terms "unmarried parenthood is bad for everyone" when he knows that no social arrangement is "always" anything tells me he likes neat tidy solutions to complicated human problems.
Sure, we could all make better choices, but the men who were missing from the lives of the children in the article are dead-beats, if they know the child exists.
Funny the word dead beat knots him up but he loves the word bastard.
Since many of the unmarried pregnant females are very young, bet the males were considerably older.
Must havse been hell for Jimminy to see all those young nubile ladies having sex, and not with him. Worked around them every day, he says.
And if they get pregnant, well that is just punishment for them.
Posted by Sharon B. on September 8, 2007 11:34 PMMaybe Mama Cricket should've used birth control!!
Posted by on September 8, 2007 11:41 PMOh, darn that was choice 11:41!
Posted by Sharon B. on September 8, 2007 11:56 PMThank you Sharon B. You're right. As soon as I hit send I thought twice about my choice of words. But it turned out to get a comment out of you to remind me of the way things really are. You're right. Holy Matrimony was created by men of the church to gain power over the masses. I like some guys sometimes and in some places, but at times the "constitution of marriage" does seem forced. Women have been raising children without much assistance from the man for thousands of years. And I've seen it in my own family and the kids grew into fine adults. I've said aloud to my close friends that my love life is on the back burner if it's even on the stove. When I signed on for motherhood I decided that my son would be my priority. I've spent the last twenty plus years having a love life. I can have a love life when he's much older and better understands the dynamics of adult relationships. That's a difficult concept for some people to grasp. Hint. Hint. The last thing my son needs is to see his mom's lovers coming in and out of his life, so he won't. It's good to know that I have support of other women. Knowing that you and e and Can I get an AMEN are on my side means more than all the men in Denver. If a guy tells me he's on my side he's probably either not listening or wants something. I know they're not all bad, but I'd sooner read a book and play with my son or read a book to my son than deal with more immature insecure b.s. from any guy anywhere. Thanks for listening.
Posted by Diana on September 9, 2007 12:05 AMI should clarify: I believe that comprehensive sex education is the first step toward reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies.
Posted by Diana on September 9, 2007 12:27 AMGood luck, Diana, keep writing.
Posted by Sharon B. on September 9, 2007 12:32 AMAhh,the gender wars go on.And on.....It's been said that your enemy is your teacher,so here is some final pedantry.Diana,I coudn't possibly know your ethnicity.The African-American reference was a comment on the damage done to that group by certain post-Roe government policies.Didn't refer to you,but on first reading,it does look otherwise.I too work on my writing chops.
Human pair-bonding predates any religious persuasion.I believe it to be an evolved behavior that works better than any other child-rearing strategy.Ever.E's outrage at my calculated use of the B-word tells me that she at heart agrees,and furthermore gets it in spades that the epithet is an insult directed not at the child but the parent.
Lastly,in the interest of diversity education,we might observe that while no man could know what childbirth is,no woman could know what it is to doubt whether she is her child's mother.
Aw yes, but we live in an age of dna testing and genetic certainty. That old lame man backout of 'it aint my kid" is tired. What the hell are you stickin it to her for if she's out there letting every other idiot do the same? Come on now. Barring any soap opera scripts or Marty Poevich drama most women know who they were with and how many times and what time in her cycle. I agree about the marriage thing. I believe in marriage for myself, but not with my children's father. He was abusive and almost killed me. But since all women are tramps, and none of you guys that were with her impregnated her, who did? Does that marriage certificate stop her from being with other men? Wake up.
Posted by E on September 9, 2007 08:24 AMWe DO have genetic certainty and have had for some 40 out of the last 25,000,000 years.So us guys have in the main had to rely on a woman's truthfulness. Not terribly reassuring in view of the often-stated propensity of mothers to commit any conceiveable anti-social act (the least of which would be lying) against someone who they thought threatened either her children or her soi-disant divinity as mom.
Posted by Jimminy on September 9, 2007 09:11 AMYou don't like women do you? Did you have a rough childhood? Has no man ever lied to you? People commit anti-social acts, not just mothers. Go down to Canon City some day and check out the difference in the size of the men's prison as opposed to the women's. You will never be able to put this or any other human issue into a nice tidy little box in your one size fits all mentality. Why try? Not all mothers are liars. Not all dads are "dead beats". When all of this is said and done, none of us will have the answer anyway. just don't call my kid a bastard and we'll get along.....:)
Posted by E on September 9, 2007 09:39 AMDiana,
When you said in your post you would not worry about having a love life and wouldn't want your son to see alot of different people come and go, I knew you had yourself together.I am so proud you made that decision and put your child first instead of yourself.
I have a neighbor who has the parade of men thing going on and I think it's downright selfish.I'm sick and tired of seeing women put themselves before their children.
Having all these different people is not good for the children.
I am so proud you made that decision.Putting your child first is the right thing to do and shows you have more brains than the highly educated crazy mother across the street from me.
Her child is at my house whenever she can be. She hates being around her mother and that is sad.
The last boyfriend the mother had, moved in with them after about a month of going out.When the mother broke up with him,she told him she just wanted to be friends and to be out of the house when she got home from her 4 day vacation.She left the kids with this guy and went on a mini-vacation. The guy wouldn't let the 9 year old come over to our house and play because he was very upset and needed support. A 9 year old!
These kids are so screwed up and the mother is turning her 9 year old against her. She can't stand to be around her.
Your decision to not parade your dates or lovers through the house , shows me you have really got it together.
Single mothers out there.
If you think you are doing right by your children by having a parade of people come in and out of your lives ,you are stupid.Plain and simple.It's selfish and your children will suffer for it.
Diana, You go girl! You are on a path of happiness!
Posted by Can I get an AMEN! on September 9, 2007 10:36 AMThis has been fun. Peace to all....Love to some. The "novelty has worn off" Have beautiful perfect lives and especially you Mr Cricket, and the guy that had the easy abortion....Go in Peace
Posted by e on September 9, 2007 11:22 AMI didn't call e's kid a bastard.She did.Peace on you too,sweeties.
Posted by Jimminy on September 9, 2007 09:29 PMI would never do that because its not true. I would never call any one's kid a bastard (with maybe the exception of Mrs. Mama Cricket's)
and it doesn't have anything to do with her marital status at the time he/she/it was born. Children aren't bastards. Grown ups with no hearts and closed minds are. It's a state of mind. You fit the bill Jimmy
Posted by e on September 10, 2007 05:06 AMCalling me names doesn't help your kids.Knowing what I know might.
Posted by Jimminy on September 10, 2007 11:13 AMMy kids are all grown up and on their own Jimminy. (guess what? I raised them all by myself too...oh no) I seriously doubt that you know much about anything. How old are ya? 14? You should know, if you're any older than that, that you can't tell people how to live their lives any better than anybody else can. You need a serious reality check and you've been nothing but fun for me to mess with, so be on your way. I'm bored now
Posted by e on September 10, 2007 05:34 PMAnd that,folks,is why you should visit the poor side of town only by way of the Internet.
Posted by Jimminy on September 10, 2007 09:56 PMUnless,of course,you have pearls to cast.
Posted by Jimminy on September 10, 2007 10:03 PMha ha you're funny. Unless you call my owning of 3 cars and 4 homes (including a condo in Corpus Christi) as poor old white trash, you are sadly sadly mistaken. There you go folks... now you see Mr. Cricket for what he is ....a prejudicial bigot. Your negativity is only out weighed by your pathetic attempts at righteousness. You sir are a scab. You can go cast your pearls somewhere else....they be diamonds where I live!!!
Posted by e on September 11, 2007 06:43 AMWho said old? Who said white?
Posted by Jimminy on September 11, 2007 08:18 AMHoo dat baby daddy?
Posted by Jimminy on September 11, 2007 03:17 PMAre you trying to be funny Jimmy? Come on you can do better than that? Do you not have a day job or something? Are you too busy trying to think of ways to be clever on a dead page on the Rocky Mountain News website? Such a clever boy....bet mama's real proud huh?
Posted by e on September 11, 2007 06:48 PMAnd you posted on a dead page too.Gotcha!
Posted by Jimminy on September 12, 2007 08:31 AMyep you're right! dang. I hate when that happens.....take it easy buddy. this was fun
Posted by e on September 12, 2007 08:13 PM