Moore overlooked shooting in Canada
This is in response to Jerry Jones’ online comment, published Aug. 14 in the Rocky Mountain News, that filmmaker Michael Moore will pay $10,000 to anyone who can prove him wrong.
After Bowling for Columbine came out, I was researching the Columbine tragedy. In the film, Moore was singing Canada’s praises, saying how crime- and poverty-free that nation seemed to be, and how extremely few murders by guns there were. I remember myself even saying, “I live in the wrong country.”
I found out by accident that Moore left out the W.R. Myers High School shooting in Taber, Alberta, that occurred April 28, 1999. One student was murdered and another injured. It was the first school shooting after Columbine.
They found a note in the shooter’s room mentioning he was inspired by the Columbine shootings. Since then, Michael Moore’s credibility has been nonexistent to me.
I don’t care if he’s liberal or not, just that he gets his facts straight.
So, where’s my $10,000, Mr. Moore?
Todd Ponton, Aurora
Not only was bowling for lies full of factual inaccuracies. Michael Moore lost his creditablity on his first movie. His bias on any subject is so far from any truth he will never be believable.
Posted by on September 3, 2007 04:22 AMdont hold you breath because moore is just another blow hard who will do anything to promote him and make him money all the time telling you that money is really bad. and he enjoys all of the tax rate reductions and makes a lot of noise that the rich. other than him. need to pay more for the have nots like you and get a little free.
moore is a jerk and gets all the libs to make him rich by watching his version of waynes world
Fool's Gold. There are no "bodybags associated with Mike Moore. These Keystone Kops would make better use of their investigative skills if they investigated Bush for serious war crimes.
1.) Saddam used chemical weapons on Kurds. Bush used chemcial weapons on Sunnis and Shiites.
2.) Bush used Rx drugged troops on unsuspecting Iraqi citizens.
3.) WMD lies (Hitler-style).
4.) Bush is a UCMJ-felon (40+ years AWOL and deserter). The Bush-Klan violated the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and Truman';s executive order, which desegregated all of our military units. The Bush-Klan resegregated all of our military units when they carved out a NAM sanctuary for "W" in the racially-segregated Texas Air National Guard.
5.) Felon hires fellow felon. USSC Judge Alito is also a UCMJ-felon (AWOL and deserter). He pimped and exploited taxpayers for 7 years of free college education (JD and undergrad degrees) in the army's ROTC program. He cut and ran oin his obligation to serve 11 years on active military duty for us giving him these gifts.
6.) Daddy Draft-Deferments. Don't believe Mitt's lies. He and Bush both got "muh daddy draft deferments". Mitt is "W". A leopard doesn't change his spots. When NAM boke-out, Mitt broke for his Mormon mission (racially segregated) because his daady was a cabinet member in the Nixon administration. When NAM broke-out, "W" broke for Barbara's dresstail. On 9/11 America was attacked in the "EAST", "W" flew AF1 "WEST".
Posted by 40acresandmymuleandNAMvetbennies on September 3, 2007 07:57 AMmoore is just another liberal con-man taking advantage of the ignorant.40 acres is a prime example.40 acres,hopefully you are not celebrating today.Today is for people who have jobs.
Posted by Keith on September 3, 2007 08:06 AMIn Bowling for Columbine Mike Moore showed Heston holding a flintlock rifle over his head saying"from my cold dead hands".He implied that this happened in Denver just after the Columbine school shooting to make it look like the NRA was insensitive.I,my wife,my son and my daughter-in-law were all at that meeting and Mr. Heston did not hold the gun over his head and say"from my cold dead hands".As someone that has looked into the media,Democrats and their friends for about 20 years, I can tell you most of what they say is either lies or at best half -truths.
Posted by An American on September 3, 2007 10:58 AMso Moore implied. How? We all saw that video of Heston.
How did he "imply" that it happened after Columbine in Denver.
I saw Bowling for Columbine and don`t remember that, Captain America.
Posted by Sharon B. on September 3, 2007 11:30 AMHey, 40mulesandmyacre, Michael Moore IS a body bag. Also you can thank JFK and LBJ for your Nam experiences.
Michael Moore is nothing but a jerk who likes to make money on other people’s misery. He does makes good points, reminded me how easy it is to get guns in this country with the possibility to make them illegal, so I ran out and bought more than half a dozen. If it wasn’t for Bill Clinton in ’93, I would of never owed an SKS. Thanks, Mike and Bill.
The sad part of this is that Todd's letter doesn't say what Moore got wrong in his movie to force the $10K debt.
Anybody here know what he's talking about? Did Moore say there were no Canadian school shootings ever? That would be wrong, but Ponton doesn't tell us what he got wrong. Someone here must know what he's talking about, right?
Posted by Repugnants are liars on September 3, 2007 02:41 PMWow, Moore missed one shooting in Canada and that invalidates all his work.
Posted by Sharon B. on September 3, 2007 09:20 PMsharon b. All his work is designed to take advantage of those with lower IQ's.When are you going to admit you got taken advantage of?
Posted by Keith on September 3, 2007 11:26 PMThe highly dependable wingnut keith says today is for people with jobs so keithy are you cheating your employer out of the time you spend here, or do you rank among the unemployed?
Posted by patrick on September 4, 2007 08:54 AMHey wingnut,All of my employee's make more than you.
Posted by Keith on September 4, 2007 09:30 AM"All his work is designed to take advantage of those with lower IQ's."
If that were the case then Keith would be a Michael Moore fan. How many people do you "employ" Keith? Does it have anything to do with the trailer park?
Posted by drew on September 4, 2007 10:36 AMdrew - The folks living in trailer parks are most likely the same people you champion as poster children in need of socialized healthcare.
As an advocate for socialized healthcare, you belie your position with such patronizing statements.
Since we can see "concern for the less fortunate" is not the driving force in your quest for this reform, what then is your ulterior motive?
KW
My "ulterior motive" is to skewer keith whenever possible since he personifies the brainless ranting of the far right. Funny how you trot out your concern for the "less fortunate" at opportune moments.
What's more interesting is that I've never seen you take Keith to task for the mean, brainless garbage that he spews every day on this site. I assume therefore that you agree with him - no surprises there.
So, sorry to offend your delicate sensibilities, but I still think Keith is trailer park trash whether he has health care or not.
Posted by drew on September 4, 2007 01:40 PMdrew - Good to see ya buddy!
Are there any other posters here that I don't respond to, that I must therefore agree with, or is Keith the only one?
Keith does make an occaisional post without the radical rightwing overtones, I may even see some truth in a post of his, but just because I'm a moderate conservative, it doesn't create an everlasting bond between myself and everyone on the right.
There's quit a few people, both left AND right you don't see me responding to like 40 acres, RGrimes, An American, Repugnants, etc, etc, etc...
You'll rarely see me exchanging with the likes of Bango, Truth, Sharon B, Patrick, Sean, etc... Some I used to engage more often in the past but after awhile you begin to see the mindset and it becomes very mundane.
But people such as yourself, Charles B, OG, etc (sorry if I left anyone out) are down right fun to banter with. Even if I think you're full of crap, I still have fun calling you on it.
Now don't start getting all mushy on me. I still expect you to treat me with the same obtuseness, imprudence and asinine behavior we all have come to appreciate in you.
PS - When I called you on your trailer trash observation I was just board and decided to see if I could get rise out of you. So lighten up ya puke!
Posted by KW on September 4, 2007 02:18 PMOf course I meant bored rather than board but you get the idea!
Posted by KW on September 4, 2007 02:28 PMSharon B.
You asked for it, so here it is.
You wrote: “so Moore implied. How? We all saw that video of Heston.
How did he "imply" that it happened after Columbine in Denver.
I saw Bowling for Columbine and don`t remember that, Captain America.
Not only did Moore portray Charlton Heston as a person insensitive to murders caused by people using guns, but he also made Heston look like a racist. Moore knew that most people alive today are not aware that Charlton Heston was a leader of the civil rights movement in the 1960’s, that Heston was a personal friend of Martin Luther King, and that Heston was a regular guest speaker for the Congress of Racial Equality.
Just as he has done in all four of his works on film, Moore repeatedly distorts evidence to fit his version of the world. In Bowling for Columbine, he shows a supposed NRA rally in Denver shortly after the Columbine shootings. Here is the sequence in the film:
There is a scene of weeping children outside Columbine with a description of how friends were murdered before their eyes. Then Moore cut to Charlton Heston holding a musket and proclaiming “I have only five words for you: ‘from my cold, dead hands.’” Then the film jumps to a shot of a billboard advertising the meeting, while Moore gravely moans, “Just ten days after the Columbine killings, despite the pleas of a community in mourning, Charlton Heston came to Denver and held a large pro-gun rally for the National Rifle Association.”
So, you see Sharon, you are right. He did not “imply” that it happened ten days after Columbine in Denver. He actually came right out and lied about that.
The next scene shows cuts of Heston, appearing to those not paying attention that he is continuing the same speech, saying “I have a message from the Mayor, Mr. Wellington Webb, the Mayor of Denver. He sent me this. It says ‘Don’t come here. We don’t want you here.’ I say to the Mayor, this is our country, as Americans we’re free to travel wherever we want in our broad lands. Don’t come here? We’re already here!”
Moore wanted the viewers of that film to believe that Charlton Heston and others from the NRA rushed to Denver, CO to hold rallies and demonstrations directly after the Columbine killing spree. But here are the facts and the context of those rallies:
The rally shown was not at all a pro-gun demonstration organized immediately after Columbine, but rather an annual meeting held by the NRA each year and which had its place and date fixed for years ahead of time. The annual meetings of members of nonprofit corporations are regulated by law, in the interest of ensuring corporate democracy. Since the NRA is based in New York it must abide by New York law. The New York statutes rule out the NRA’s changing of a location or date of such a meeting on a short notice. Changing the date and location would have had to be approved by voting members of the NRA. Columbine happened just eleven days before the meeting and the NRA – with 4 million members – would have had to notify them all in the same day’s mail.
During the Denver meeting, the NRA cancelled all events such as their normal 7-day committee meetings, sporting events, dinners, and rallies with the only exception being their annual members voting event. Again, it is by New York law that the NRA holds that meeting, so it could not be canceled.
But there is more to the story. Heston’s “cold, dead hands” speech, which Moore depicts as if it happened in Denver “just ten days after the Columbine killing,” was given a year later in Charlotte, North Carolina, and was his gesture of gratitude for being given a handmade musket at the annual meeting.
The film viewer sees utter defiance in Heston’s response to Mayor Webb’s request that the NRA not come to Denver. Forming this false depiction took a lot of film and audio editing. Moore actually took bits and pieces of audio of seven sentences, from five different parts of the speech, and a section given in a different speech from a different place and time, and spliced them all together to make it look like one long segment of film. He concealed these edits by cleverly inserting flashes of still footage or video footage of other scenes.
Right after showing the weeping kids outside Columbine, Moore puts on Heston’s voice and the viewer hears his, “I have only five words for you…cold, dead hands” statement, making it seem as if Heston was speaking directly to those weeping kids. Moore knew that if he went from one speech to the other viewers might notice that in mid-speech Heston suddenly changed from wearing a purple tie and a lavender shirt to a red tie and a white shirt, and that the background draperies changed from maroon to blue. Moore had to separate the segments with visual distractions.
During Bowling for Columbine, Moore interviews Charlton Heston. Moore claims that the interview was shown in its entirety and not edited for the film. If you watch closely, you’ll notice a clock on the wall near Moore’s head. When it’s first seen, the time is about 5:47. When Heston walks out, the time on the same clock shows about 6:10. That is 23 minutes. The segment shown in the film is only about 5 minutes and 15 seconds long. Odds are very good that Moore cut out anything that might change the impression he wanted the viewers to come away with.
Moore also edited out the portion of the meeting held in Denver in which Heston announced the scale back of that convention and that Heston went on to say that, “…we’ve cancelled the festivities, the fellowship we normally enjoy at our annual gatherings. This decision has perplexed a few and inconvenienced thousands.” Instead Moore cuts right to Heston’s response to Mayor Webb: “I said to the Mayor: ‘As Americans, we’re free to travel wherever we want in our broad land. Don’t come here? We’re already here!” Moore actually put an edit right in the middle of the first sentence, and another at the end. Here is what Heston actually said in reference to his WWII vet status: "I said to the Mayor, well, my reply to the mayor is, ‘I volunteered for the war they wanted me to attend when I was 18 years old. Since then, I’ve run small errands for my country, from Nigeria to Vietnam. I know many of you here in this room could say the same thing.’” Moore cut the tape right after “I said to the mayor” and attaches that to the next paragraph, “As Americans, we’re free to travel wherever we want in our broad land.” He hid the deletion by cutting to footage of protestors and a photo of Mayor Webb before going back to showing the second part. Then there is another visual distraction before ending with, “Don’t come here? We’re already here!” which in the real world was stated by Heston five sentences later and which had nothing at all to do with Mayor Wellington Webb.
Here is what Heston actually said:
“NRA members are in City Hall, Fort Carson, NORAD, the Air Force Academy and the Olympic Training Center. And yes, NRA members are surely among the police and fire and SWAT team heroes who risked their lives to rescue the students at Columbine.
“Don’t come here? We’re already here! This community is our home. Every community in America is our home. We are a 128-year-old fixture of mainstream America. The Second Amendment ethic of lawful, responsible firearm ownership spans the broadest cross section of American life imaginable.
“So, we have the same right as all other citizens to be here. To help shoulder the grief and share our sorrow and to offer our respectful, reassured voice to the national discourse that has erupted around this tragedy.
“NRA members are, above all, Americans. That means that whatever our differences, we are respectful of one another and we stand united, especially in adversity.”
Instead of showing the truth that Heston was conciliatory and uniting in his speech, Moore depicted him as defiant and divisive by skillfully and tactically editing video and audio segments, and by inserting distraction between changes.
Any other questions, Sharon B.? Do you want me to explain how Moore made Heston look like a racist?
Moore should go for a ride in Ted Kennedy's car....over a bridge.
Posted by RickyLee on September 4, 2007 05:35 PMThank you Mountain Cat!!!! You did a great job!! Sharon does not care about the truth.She bends the facts to fit what she "feels".She hates this country and everything it stands for just like most Democrats.Would you let me know if Moore tried to make it look like you could walk into a bank and buy a gun without a background check.When you had to go through a check the same as if you bought it in a gun store.I think he lied about that also but can't say for sure.As you can see Sharon has tried to say Mike Moore is telling the truth and now you can see what Sharon takes for the truth.The real danger of US hating Democrats like Sharon is that now they are telling the same lies about the war to get our troops killed.It is harder to counter these lies because her friends in the media are aiding her.Just remember what Mountain Cat posted about Mike Moore and how he lied about the NRA because that is how the Democrats lie about most issues.I know for sure that Heston did not hold the rifle over his head at the Denver meeting and say "from my cold dead hands".I and my family were at that meeting.Also what Mountain Cat said about the NRA having to go through with that meeting because of bylaws is also true.
Posted by An American on September 5, 2007 07:48 AMKW
No worries - even if you are full of crap I'm glad to see you apparently have a sense of humor! That's a rare commodity in a rightie!
Posted by drew on September 5, 2007 08:48 AMAn American,
There are some aspects of what appears to be a cultural war in America between conservatives and liberals that makes winning a bit more difficult for conservatives. Liberals routinely find ways to throw out bumper sticker comments that are not at all hard to rebut but take a lot of explanation. Many don’t want to take the time to listen to such explanations. As is the case with Sharon B. She asked a few quick questions, which are essentially statements posed as questions, but it took several paragraphs to explain the truth.
Another tactic used by liberals is they often will make statements as facts and as soon as they see that you are making a good rebuttal to refute their statements they quickly move the discussion into another direction. Or they are evasive in answering direct questions. Some don’t even wait to go that far and simply impugn your intellect so that they have put you on the defensive right off the bat.
Or they conduct themselves as Sharon B. and just not respond. Notice she has not come back to me with any further comment. Granted she may have been busy commenting on other topics on this site or just not even logging on at all for a large number of reasons. Given her tendency to be feisty, I’m surprised not to hear back from her. I see that she has made comments on another thread about Ted Haggard this morning and commenting about Barak Obama as recently as one hour ago, so I’m confident that she has seen what I wrote.
Most of the media comes from the standpoint of the Democrat party. They give people like Michael Moore tons of free publicity. That is a major front in this cultural war. It hasn’t been until very recently that any of the so-called mainstream media have been reporting anything the least bit positive about progress in Iraq. Even perky Katie Couric is in Iraq right now and actually had some positive things to report about the current state of relative safety and security in the Anbar region. It’s a bit slow in coming since the much of Anbar province has been relatively secure for about two or three months now. But at least the truth about that area is starting to become common knowledge.
Oh, yeah, the topic is Michael Moore and Bowling for Columbine. Sorry to digress.
I must admit that I somewhat agree with Moore that there is a huge problem in our country concerning healthcare, though. However, I adamantly disagree with his solution.
I agree with everything you have said.There is a problem with health care but I do not think letting the government take over is the answer.In fact I think the government being involved might have caused some of the problems.
Posted by An American on September 6, 2007 09:42 AMMichael Moore is a Moron!!!!!!
Posted by Jeremy on September 6, 2007 09:44 PMJeremy,
I wish I could agree with you. Unfortunately, Moore is not a moron. He's pretty clever and cunning. I am diametrically opposed to his view of the world, and I despise him and his intellectual dishonesty and purposeful deception. But that does not make him a moron.
Now, the people who defend Michael Moore and follow him and pay to see his propaganda films ARE morons. The people who call his workings “documentaries” and give him Academy Awards are morons.
Mountain Cat, Thank you for the clarification. You are right, he did minipulate the video on Heston.
Good job of explaining it.
Posted by Sharon B. on September 8, 2007 12:36 AM