David McSwane’s editorial & Dick Cheney
What’s even more interesting is the fact that Pat leahy had at that time, only asked Dick to explain his relationship to Halliburton, (the no-bid contractor who is fleecing the Iraqi people and the American taxpayer), for which Dick Cheney still receives pension benefits from. We heard NO ONE from the right, at the time, raise a ruckus about Cheney’s appalling bad behavior, nor did we hear any answers from Dick, to Pat Leahy’s questions.
This letter has not been edited.
L. Y do you hate America?
No, but I hate americas' nazi government. Don' t you hate the nazi government?
Posted by L. Y on October 4, 2007 02:27 PMYour letter is so stupid it doesn't even warrant a response.
Posted by on October 4, 2007 02:32 PMYet you did respond, how sad.
Posted by sean on October 4, 2007 02:39 PMIt becomes obvious when that when someone has to resort to the old "you must hate America" defense for even the smallest criticism of Bush, Cheney, etc., that they have no other basis for argument.
While not a member of the Dems or GOP, this letter does raise a good point. Are GOP members and supporters the only ones allowed to tell others to go f*&^ yourself? What a double standard.
Posted by BO on October 4, 2007 02:47 PMif you question anything these great men do that are leading our country into the greatest prosperity of all time must hate America. Don't question greatness just follow.
Posted by Hank on October 4, 2007 03:04 PMHating Cheney is not the same as hating America.
Posted by Obvious on October 4, 2007 03:09 PMMr Cheney, IIRC, whispered the phrase discreetly to Pat Leahy. He did not scream the comment, or intend it for anyone other than Mr. Leahy.
At CSU, they made an idiotic comment, put in all caps, at no instigation, and with trite justification.
The two do not compare. Republicans fight and sacrifice for free speech every day. Democrats watch college students get tasered on the floor.
At least at the Collegian, the advertiser bailout of their publication is teaching *them* the responsibilities in which free speech entails
Posted by Kevin on October 4, 2007 03:15 PMSince Cheney only "whispered" the profanity at Senator Leahy, it's just fine?
Posted by Stan B on October 4, 2007 03:25 PMYes. It's America.
Notice no one is forcing the Collegian to shut up. People are choosing not to read it, and advertisers choose not to support it.
So if Mr. Cheney's profanity is of great offense to you, use your recourse of the political process and the Free(?) Press to object!
Posted by Kevin on October 4, 2007 03:45 PMAnd to clarify, if it was a private publication, as many student newspapers today are, it would be out of business. Student Papers come and go. Since Mr. McSweene is choosing to speak from the Colorado Taxpayers pulpit, then he will have to respond to the taxpayers as well.
Best of luck to the editor in the free markets!
Posted by Kevin on October 4, 2007 03:49 PMKevin,
Republicans fight for free speech?!?! Ha!! ReTHUGlicans do all they can to ensure that free speech is trampled under the cover of "patriotism" or "support the troops". They hate being disagreed with as though their beliefs are unquestionable. Witness the ridiculous condemnation of MoveOn's Petreaus/Betrayus ad.
This is the worst administration in the history of the U.S. but lets not hear any criticism of it. I whole-heartedly concur with McShane: F&*K Bush and Chebney!!
Again, Mr. Kerry, 2004 Presidential Candidate, sat and watched as an American College student expressing a political viewpoint was tasered by state police.
'Nuff Said.
Posted by Kevin on October 4, 2007 04:04 PMAnybody pick up today's edition of "Westword"? There's an article there on all this rather idiotic fuss and furor over the Editor up at CSU.
It appears that there were a number of axes to grind up there. Which, perhaps, is more a matter of CSU business than of anyone, or all, the contributors to the website here.
BUT! It did serve one purpose! It DID attract attention.
Which does seem to be a whole lot more than the usual run of the mill "news" seems to do anyway. Maybe "journalism" isn't dead yet; do you suppose?
Posted by Old Grouch on October 4, 2007 04:42 PMKevin, the Rocky Mountain Collegian does NOT recieve funding from the university.
Posted by flimflam on October 4, 2007 04:44 PMKevin submitted this comment:
"So if Mr. Cheney's profanity is of great offense to you, use your recourse of the political process and the Free(?) Press to object!"
That's exactly what what the author's letter and this thread is about.
Posted by Stan B on October 4, 2007 04:50 PMI fail to see the connection between Bush and the Kerry speech incident. Of course it must be his fault because Kerry wasn't able to control his security people?
As for the verbal obscenity uttered by Chaney, it was verbal and directed at a single person for a specific reason. No one else was included. He also apologized for his obscenity later.
Let the college editor explain why he is entitled to an adult right of free speech but must be immune from consequences, like lost ad revenue or broken school rules, because he is a student. Which is it? Is he an adult with all the rights and responsibilities including being responsible for the financial consequences of his actions or is he a student under stricter rules but wider protections?
Whichever it is don't fire him. He has to learn someplace and firing him makes it that much harder for him to appreciate what he did. Why should a new editor have to try to mend the damage done to reputation and finances? Leave him there to clean up his mess.
Posted by momma y on October 4, 2007 04:54 PMConfused
Your not confused, the left is. Sure Cheney should also watch his mouth. But the left are the defenders of profanity, pornography and other vile garbage that comes down that pike with the help of the ACLU. That's what that liberal Bozo of an editor at CSU has been indoctrinated to believe. Higher education at it's worst.
If the founding fathers had included the things I just mention in the 1st Amendment, they would not also have instituted the obscenity laws from the founding of this Nation.
When George Washington was commanding his troops during the Revolutionary War he would not allow his men to use foul language without a severe reprimand.
Of course all that means nothing to the left since their mission is to tear down the Constitution and Bill of Rights and re-write them to suit their immoral, socialist agenda,
and they can not understand why we call them un-American, subversives and traitors.
Call them "Confused" or just plain stupid pseudo Americans.
Leahy knew damn well what Cheny's relationship with Haliburton was. As did everybody in this country so I think the comparison here is irrelevant.
Both comments were innappropriate. Of course you only hear the libs defending McSwane.
He should be fired as the rules of the paper he is EMPLOYED by state no profanity to be used any time in any story or editorial. End of story.
Old Grouch
Sorry, I don't read that liberal garbage rag.
I notice that most people who do are some of the weirdest oddballs and burnouts I've had the displeasure to encounter. Did you also read your underground comic books today and was Stan B. one of the characters'?
Exhoosier24, "This is the worst administration in the history of the U.S."
If there's any justice in the world, that label would go to Jimmy Carter. We wouldn't be in this mess, if it wasn't for the way he dealt with Iran.
Posted by Dave on October 4, 2007 05:53 PMWe've known for some time that Dicky Cheney is a pig, and anyone who profits from this or any other war will find that the blood on their hands won't wash off.
Sleep well stockholders of Halliburton,
pigs like Cheney , Bush, Erik Prince , and other war profiteers will find their reward in hell.
Posted by dmz on October 4, 2007 06:15 PM
Perfectly clear must be the nom-de-plume of our friend Rush ( is that you drugster?)
I do believe she's just called us thinking , patriotic Americans "phony Americans", when all we want is for our (real) troops to come home alive and well.
Please, PC, Go f*ck yourself.
"Perfectly clear must be the nom-de-plume of our friend Rush ( is that you drugster?)
I do believe she's just called us thinking , patriotic Americans "phony Americans", when all we want is for our (real) troops to come home alive and well.
Please, PC, Go f*ck yourself."
So this is a thoughtful response from a thinking American? I'd hate to see your idea of an emotional response.
Posted by on October 4, 2007 06:34 PMExhoosier24,
It wasn't Republicans who crafted speech codes or the Fairness Doctrine. It isn't Republicans who routinely shout down speakers on college campuses. It isn't Republicans who want to shut down talk radio.
Its quite telling that those on the left feel they can slander anybody they choose through vehicles like MoveOn. But if anybody dares to criticize them, they scream that it's their free speech rights that are being trampled.
flimflam:
RE: Kevin, the Rocky Mountain Collegian does NOT recieve funding from the university.
Not True. Their office is housed in the Student Center on the CSU campus. Are they paying a market rent for this space?
If you want to see a classy student newspaper, check out teh Independent Florida Alligator.
Posted by on October 4, 2007 09:14 PMPerfectly Clear,
Was that the Iran Oliver North sold weapons to as we were arming their enemies Iraq?
Posted by on October 4, 2007 09:52 PMMy, my, my.
It does appear that even despite the best efforts of the Republican/"conservative" claque to censor those they don't like, the principle of free speech is still alive and well in this Country anyway.
At leas, it is still alive - and doing rather well, too - up as CSU. The University authorities have "admonished" the young Editor, NOT fired him, as the ranting, raving, right-wingnuts would have had it.
Perhaps, it even goes to show that education is also alive, and doing rather well too. Again, in spite of the efforts of those who would reduce us all to their own status of blind, ignorant, and mindless followers of their particular "great leader" of the moment.
And now, watch them all crawl out from under their rocks to complain about how they're being "persecuted", because they can't manage to force everyone else to cease showing just how regressive and reactionary they really are.
Posted by Old Grouch on October 5, 2007 06:13 AMHas the original writer ( Is it L ?) personally had his civil liberties taken away or know someone who has had his rights compromised recently? or even know a case where the rights of an American CITIZEN were compromised without just cause? yes there are cases in the past where individuals controversly asurped citizens rights( FDR and Lincoln were the top 2 abusers!!!!!) Yet, somehow, L, is still able to rave publicly like a paranoid craven!!
Could L. really believe that this administration is Nazi??? How far left of Marx is this person. Actually this person is not left or right , but is on an entirely different plane ( the Z plane or wingnut, maybe)
AF
Posted by on October 5, 2007 06:45 AM"Could L. really believe that this administration is Nazi??? "
A bit paranoid I'll admit, but the Bush administration is certainly collectivistic enough to make a move on the party of national socialism, they just haven't gone as far as their counterparts in the democratic party.
Posted by on October 5, 2007 07:11 AMCheney was right. Leahy can do exactly what Cheney indicated Leahy should do to himself.
Posted by on October 5, 2007 07:11 AMCheney was right. Leahy can do exactly what Cheney indicated Leahy should do to himself.
Posted by on October 5, 2007 07:11 AMOld Grouch,
Oh, please. This has nothing to do with free speech.
Screaming "F__K Bush" over something where Bush wasn't involved isn't really all that bright. And doing it as an editorial of a newspaper that was not his own is the equivalent of spray painting graffiti on someone else's fence.
Dave,
In part, you are right. The editorial wasn't altogether "bright" as an expression either from the Editor himself, or as if it came from the student body. But the "brightness" wasn't the issue to begin with.
However non-"bright" it was - and is - it became quite an issue of free speech, when the Republican/"conservative" folks - both in the town, and on campus, as well as all over this website and elsewhere - wet their pants over it; and started to scream about firing the Editor from his job, as well as firing the faculty advisor, etc., etc.; up through, and including, some demands to completely shut down the newspaper.
Fortunately, the University had more sense than these Republican/"conservative" censors - or wannabe censors, and "guardians" of what kind of "free speech" THEY would allow - and, while there was quite a tempest in the teapot, it boiled down to a reprimand. Which is all it was ever "worth" in the first place.
Do take time to read some of the rant here; especially that dealing with how totally different it is when a Vice President - Republican/"conservative - and a mere college newspaper Editor do much the same thing. Your own, for instance, where you equate vandalism and speech, WHEN the speech is directed at your form of "tribal idol", that is.
Posted by Old Grouch on October 5, 2007 09:16 AMCheney nail it.leahy is a f---in idiot.
Posted by Keith on October 5, 2007 09:23 AMdmz,We have known from your first post that you are a total idiot.
Posted by Keith on October 5, 2007 10:02 AMSomebody please give me a VERIFIABLE and VALID example of republicans "fighting and sacrificing (I choked on my Cheerios when I read that word in the same sentence as the word republicans) for free speech every day"
Don't resort to tired, regurgitated rhetoric.
Give me REAL examples.
I'll be waiting.
Probably for a long time.
Posted by Thomas on October 5, 2007 10:28 AMPerfectly Clear,
Was that the Iran Oliver North sold weapons to as we were arming their enemies Iraq?
Posted by on October 4, 2007 09:52 PM
Or the same Osama bin Laden we bankrolled when he was helping Afghanistan try to oust the Russians back in the late 70's/early 80's.
bin Laden and Saddam are just the latest in a long list of petty tyrants the U.S. helped install in power, armed and bankrolled and then ended up at odds with.
Maybe we should stay out of the business of "nation building". We're not very good at picking our friends..they always seem to end up as enemies.
Posted by on October 5, 2007 10:40 AM09:47 AM, anonymous,
Well, one thing you have to remember is, the majority of Congress are lawyers - more or less. And in the Courts - where I will admit the greater part have not set foot in years - there is a form of courtesy that goes all the way back to Colonial times, and beyond.
The polliteness in Court got taken over by Congress early in our history - though there have been times when . . . like the time a Southerner killed a Member, sitting at his desk in the Chamber, by beating him over the head with his metal headed cane, for some form of "slight", or "insult" of the day and age - there have been times when "politeness" was not quite the "rule of the day".
On the other hand, we have Taiwan. So . . . ? Where to draw the line?
Oh, well . . . .
Posted by Old Grouch on October 5, 2007 11:18 AMWhy do you cons continue to defend these two criminals in the White House when in recent "REPUBLICAN POLLS" show that that majority of republican voters don't want another George Bush. Swollow your pride and admit Bush is a clown!!
Posted by larry on October 5, 2007 12:33 PMPost 10:40
Sure there were a lot of people we helped backed and have turned out to later for one reason or another became tryrants and traitors. Kind of like the liberals and socialists traitors in this country. You sound just like your friend the President of Iran and the other tyrants you mentioned. What does that tell us about you.
We have no control over most the changing world politics.
Yes we have made mistakes so that justifies the Iranians suppling and training the terrorists to kill our troops. What a liberal curr you really must be if that's your answer to my post.
Sounds like people like you need to find a country to live in that doesn't do all these horrible things America does in your eyes, that you can love because you sure hate this one. How about Iran?
Typical self righteous, hypocritical liberal that doesn't have enough conviction or self dignity to leave this so-called terrible country you criticize every chance you get and also despise. You have no true solutions to these problems. You are just worthless whinners.
Whether you like it or not we are not an isolationist nation we were up until WWII and the events in other countries sooner or later effects us.
You better wake up to reality because your terrorist friends are not going to give up the fight and all your arguments of the past are meaningless so stand behind this country now or hit the road.
Hooray for the F word; it is expressive; it givers the utterer a sense of greatness; he has told the object of his disgust to go screw himself. While I am at it:
I say to Keith expressing the sentiment of what the bulk of the posters here say: Go F yourself; you are persona non grata.
Posted by JVB on October 5, 2007 02:13 PMmaybe McSwane was practicing to run for office as a republican? His vocabulary matches Cheney ( they seem to favor the same word) and is undoubtably more extensive than Bush's.
PS- Hank why do you hate Freedom and America? Go back to whatever commie country you came from.