Disapproval of Iraq war
In March of 2003, I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. I have no medical insurance and my doctor bills are very expensive. I can’t afford medication that may keep my health from debilitating further. I’ve chosen to borrow thousands of dollars to go back to college so I will be able to provide myself with money to get the medical care I need. The money being spent on the war could help hundreds of thousands of Americans like me.
We have already spent over 500 billion dollars and President Bush is requesting approximately 200 billion more. If you would like to help stop funding continued occupation, call congress and tell them so at 1-800-614-2803. Every voice counts because our representatives need to know that the American people no longer approve funding unless it is spent on bringing our troops and tax dollars back home.
This letter has not been edited.
Deborah,
You see helping Americans out is considered Socialism by the Neo-Cons, they don't want to help you out with your medical bills. That is a handout and they want nothing to do with that, this is your problem. However sending all of our money to Iraq somehow is patriotic and helping to keep us safe and protect our freedoms. They sure want us free (as if Iraq was a threat to our freedom) but don't care about our health..
Posted by Karl Cheney on October 4, 2007 02:26 PMDeborah,
If you want a hand-out from American taxpayers, why not move to the west bank and become one of those "settlers". We give BILLIONS in handouts to them. I know...you can't... Because they discriminate against non-jews.
2:33,
See Deborah, I told you the neo cons would consider health care a handout. But I have a better idea, we should all go to Iraq where all of our money is going. After all according to them they are building schools and hospitals for the Iraqi's, when are they going to stop the handouts and bleeding hearts to the Iraqi people. You see if we take care of ourselves it is a socialist handout, but billions going to Iraq is the (right) thing to do. These bleeding heart socialist Iraqi lovers...
Posted by Karl Cheney on October 4, 2007 02:41 PMOh great "critical" thinker, If it's not Socialism, what might you call it. Progressive-ism? Just another Clintonized word for Socialism.
Another pan handling letter. Perhaps there's a street corner somewhere in Denver with your name on it?
Or perhaps Karl can make you his "feel" good project of the day and pay all your medical bills for you.
How about it Karl? Put your money where your bleeding heart mouth is. Put up or shut up...
Posted by on October 4, 2007 02:44 PMKarl will only "help" if the rest of society is forced to "help" too. He won't send a dime...
Posted by on October 4, 2007 02:46 PMHey guys, I'm doing my part, I'm sending thousands to Iraq every year. Don't get dowm on me, I'm not helping any bleeding heart hand out sick Americans, it's all going to the great war for our freedoms and liberties.. You sould like me better now huh? Come on F@#k Americans lets bomb Iran! Are you with me?
Posted by Karl Cheney on October 4, 2007 03:09 PMThis is a damn scam! Same type and style of other "letters" out there.
Yes Karl why should she get an education and try to better herself? If she is going to live off of me, why be half assed about it? See you wont help her will you Karl?
Posted by on October 4, 2007 03:14 PMbesides that Karl, why do you want to spend all of our money? why not save and pay down debt. spending is not a good thing from any side of the aisle
Posted by on October 4, 2007 03:25 PM3:14,
Get a freakin screen name, Don't worry you won't have to pay for her, or any other Americans for that matter. Why does it not bother you at all that we are spending Billions in and on the Iraqi's? But mention helping out Americans and your all up in arms about socialism. The greatness of a society is judged by how it treats the citizens that are the hurting, sick or poor. To me we aren't doing well.
Posted by Karl Cheney on October 4, 2007 03:29 PMAssuming that the letter reflects her personal circumstances accurately, she has my sympathy.
BTW, the "American public" hasn't been charged ONE SINGLE LIFE!!
Every single one of those military deaths were people who volunteered to serve the Nation. Not people that the "American public" sent there against their will.
The author, as a member of the "American public" hasn't sacrificed a thing.
Oh and Karl....
while the Iraq war is costing a lot of money, it is hardly the trillions that the government spends each year. Much of it for health care.
Screen name like the cool one you made up? reading the next post it shows that I am not for spending billions in Iraq. Please great creator of screen names did I ever say that? You make dumass assumptions that shows us all your critical thinking is only left leaning and not encompassing the real world.
Posted by on October 4, 2007 03:35 PMAgain Karl. Where the Fu*& have I said I support anything that Bush or the current administration does? Again with your assumptions. I do NOT support the current Admin. Repeat DO NOT. But I do not have the blinded hatred that you and others project on forums such as this. butbutbutbut Bush is bad. butbutbutbut yourself into some facts and reality to the situation without throwing bombs at everyone that does not think nor hate just like you
Posted by on October 4, 2007 03:41 PMAnon's.
Unfortunately I can't tell who I am responding to because I think there are more than one using no screen names. So I can't go round and round with this anymore, and you have not stated one thing you dislike about Bush's administration. your posts show you are in lock step with him and the talking points. Do I hate Bush, absolutely, I think he is in so over his head, I think his stay the course stubborness is simply due to the fact he will never admit a mistake. He's the worst public speaker I've ever seen and I think as President of the US it should be a qualification to have good communication skills. His simplistic views of good vs. Evil, your with us or against us is ridiculious. He's condesending when he speaks and I believe only has his corporate backers best interest at heart. I believe he is the worst and dumbest president we've ever had and I believe history will show that as well. Yes I am a Bush hater and proud of it. And no I don't like any of the Democrats running for office
Posted by Karl Cheney on October 4, 2007 04:14 PMThe letter writer has provided a perfect example of why we should never convert to socialized healthcare.
If not for our current system, this woman would never expand her education and increase her contribution to society. She would never set hard to obtain goals and experience the thrill of obtaining them.
Without our current healthcare system she would be stuck in horrible position of having to look for handouts in order to survive.
Deborah, I'm rooting for you. You go girl!
Posted by KW on October 4, 2007 04:23 PMDemocrats hate America...
NEW YORK — Nearly one out of every five Democrats thinks the world will be better off if America loses the war in Iraq, according to the FOX News Opinion Dynamics Poll released Thursday.
The percentage of Democrats (19 percent) who believe that is nearly four times the number of Republicans (5 percent) who gave the same answer. Seven percent of independents said the world would be better off if the U.S. lost the war.
Posted by on October 4, 2007 04:35 PM04:35 PM anonymous,
If all I could do was to quote Fox News, I'd remain totally anonymous too.
What a crock!
Posted by Old Grouch on October 4, 2007 04:45 PMJim in Erie, our troops are volunteers for their nation but did they "volunteer" to repeated tours in Iraq to become targets for fanatics?
Posted by Stan B on October 4, 2007 05:00 PMStan - The troops are willing to keep looking for the WMD's that you already gave up on.
Posted by KW on October 4, 2007 05:12 PM"Hey guys, I'm doing my part, I'm sending thousands to Iraq every year. "
Another RMN board gem. You probably think that all the social programs are free. Here's a link to the budget page, the spreadsheets down at the bottom break things down. A lot of money certainly goes to the military, but about an equal amount goes to government handout programs like SS, medicare, and the travesty we know as an education system. We all pay plenty for other people's healthcare already, no thanks to a tax hike that will push that price higher.
Posted by on October 4, 2007 06:17 PMThe real difference between conservatives and liberals comes down to the old proverb: "Give a man a fish, feed him for a day, but teach a man a fish, feed him for a lifetime. Liberals love to give out fish to people in the name of helping the less fortunate. Conservatives like to make sure that people learn to fish for themselves. Conservative preach self-reliance, and Liberals love to make people reliant on them. Where do the liberals get the fish to help the less fortunate? vThey take them from me. Then they threaten the less fortunate ones by saying that the evil conservatives want to take away the fish that is rightfully theirs. Does this make sense to anyone? Not me.
Posted by Uncommon Sense on October 4, 2007 06:21 PM"which they were all but bullied by the hawks into voting for"
Oh, so they had no free will? I guess you disagree with the decision of the Nuremberg trial regarding orders then.
Posted by on October 4, 2007 06:21 PM"The real difference between conservatives and liberals comes down to the old proverb: "Give a man a fish, feed him for a day, but teach a man a fish, feed him for a lifetime. Liberals love to give out fish to people in the name of helping the less fortunate. Conservatives like to make sure that people learn to fish for themselves. Conservative preach self-reliance, and Liberals love to make people reliant on them. Where do the liberals get the fish to help the less fortunate? vThey take them from me. Then they threaten the less fortunate ones by saying that the evil conservatives want to take away the fish that is rightfully theirs. Does this make sense to anyone? Not me."
Me neither, but I think were in the minority. Just look at Washington, I'd love to see an example of a conservative as you defined it there, but alas, I don't think I'll live to be that old.
Posted by on October 4, 2007 06:24 PMdeborah next time put your letter on media matters blog, that way billary and her lot will be able to give you all the comfort you need.
i am glad you are going to college to better your self. that works much better than asking for a hand out. but be careful what job you go for as you could be one of the rich after a few years and then have to pay taxes to care for others who prefer to sit on their butts and beg for help.
Posted by on October 4, 2007 07:13 PMWell Deb,you did it! You got all these nice folks snarling at each other.....again.Although it's pretty easy to stir that pot.
You say you got a real solution? We'd all love to hear the plan. How 'bout you tell us the way you'll extricate us from all this AND get rid of terrorism while obtaining oil at half the current price.We're all listening.
Have we caught Osama yet?
Posted by on October 4, 2007 10:38 PMYou voted for the very same folks who continue to fund the war and you got what you voted for. They voted to go there and now they are funding it. That's America. If you were against the war, then you should have voted for the folks who voted against the war and are now fighting against fund the war. Where are your defunders?
So what's your problem? Is the solution a one-way ticket to Havana?
Posted by Hank on October 5, 2007 08:16 AMGrouch,
Do you have some arguments against the poll the which was cited by "Democrats hate America..." or are you just whining because you you don't like the message?
Still waiting for yur real name!
Posted by VB on October 5, 2007 09:04 AMkarl cheney,How can you be so stupid,you are the definition of a village idiot.
Posted by Keith on October 5, 2007 09:34 AMVB,
Well, to begin with, there's the "headline". Gee Whiz! One would think the matter was significant. But . . . ?
Then we come down to the "statistics", Some 19% of the Democrats, as opposed to 5% of Republicans "gave the (same) answer".
Hey, fella! The usual margin of error in polls of this kind, is +/- 4% to begin with. And a comparrison of 19% of one Party to 5% of the other is ridiculous.
How many overall were polled? Were equal quotas set for polling both Parties? If not, how many identified themselves as being of either Party? Was the poll then balanced, in relationship to those otherwise indicated as, "Independents"? What was the question upon which the numbers - or percentages - are based? And, was the question the poll, as a whole, itself; or were there other questions?
Having had quite a bit of experience in reasearch over the years, these are just a few of the arguments I have against this poll. I've written a few questionaires, and edited a few others, along the way; as well as done a goodly share of interviewing as well.
If you want to hold that 19% of something, as opposed to 5% of something is "significant" of anything, that's up to you.
Posted by Old Grouch on October 5, 2007 09:36 AMFair enough, I have exactly the same questions about all polls. Rarely do the pollsters provide these details, at least not in the forum where the results are reported. That said, I hear poll results from Zogby, Gallup, Fox and others all of which are interesting in there own dogma.
However, you seem to have dismissed the data from the Fox poll out of hand without knowing the answer to any of your well thought out questions. That is a clear bias to dismiss without cause. That is something I find quite unseemly for someone "Having had quite a bit of experience in reasearch". To be sure Fox is somewhat right of center just as Zogby is somewhat left of center. That does not however disqualify either from the opinion research arena. I base my opinion of a coming Democratic controlled goverment, in part, on results from Zogby, knowing full well that the polls from them are slanted to give a positive result for the Democrats.
I am desturbed that people think it is good if the US loses any conflict. I know it is true, as it must be in any diverse cross section of free people. The fact that more Democrats than Republicans feel this way does not surprise me. In fact I don't know why it took a poll to point this out, seems fairly obvious given the current political climate.
At the end of the day your baseless comment was a shot at Fox. Naked and without substance. Added nothing to any discussion and showed your unwillingness to look at both sides any issue.
I would have had the same opinion had you taken the same shot at Zogby. We all always filter information through our own beliefs. To dismiss information from a source with which we disagree can have no other effect than ignorance. To be truly informed one need collect data from both sides of a discussion and weigh each on it's merit. When one does this one will occasionally actually come to the real truth and in some instances change an opinion. This is a civil and responsible way to inform ones self. Anything else is mearly emoting and has no value.
Posted by VB on October 5, 2007 10:15 AMVB,
It was just exactly BECAUSE I had no answers to my questions that I commented as I did on the poll.
Fox News, Talmey - who used to do all the polls for NBC when it was locally through KOA TV - Zogby, whoever . . . 19% of something comparred to 5% of something is as meaningless as your own rant about my "unwillingness to look at both sides . . . ."
The poll told me nothing. It merely was a posting, from an anonymous source, without reference to when, where, who was polled, or anything else by way of information. Did the anonymous poster make it up out of whole cloth? For all the material presented, he might have. Just naming something - whether it be Fox News, or anything else - does not establish the FACT that there is substance to what is supposedly quoted.
You're letting your imagination run away with you. Especially when you tell me how I respond, or how I think, or anything along those lines.
Others put up hyperlinks - I don't happen to have that capability - which I can use to go to the site, and read for myself. Just . . . saying, Fox News - or BBC - leads only to: So what?
Put up the answers to the questions - or to such questions as might be pertinent to the poll, or report; or give an indication of source better than just a name of a Network. That's providing INFORMATION for whatever side.
Posted by Old Grouch on October 5, 2007 11:37 AMLetter writer Deborah Brown is in the 20% of the Democrat party.A Fox News poll has found that 20% of Democrats think it would be better if the terrorists win the war.I think it would be safe to say that all the Democrats posting on this page are in that group.I have been saying the Democrats hate the US and want the terrorists to win.You can bet that number goes to 50% in the Democrat leadership.
Posted by An American on October 5, 2007 11:54 AM"which they were all but bullied by the hawks into voting for"
Oh, so they had no free will? I guess you disagree with the decision of the Nuremberg trial regarding orders then.
Posted by on October 4, 2007 06:21 PM
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excellent non sequitor, douche bag!
Posted by Grim Reefer on October 5, 2007 01:51 PMMaybe you aren't high enough to think straight. Light up a doobie and get back to me. I'll even help you out with a clue, since you don't seem to be familiar with the decisions of Nuremberg: Does being under orders/coercion absolve personal responsibility? Make sure to turn on, tune in, and drop out, it should give you some mental focus.
Posted by on October 5, 2007 02:59 PMMaybe you aren't high enough to think straight. Light up a doobie and get back to me. I'll even help you out with a clue, since you don't seem to be familiar with the decisions of Nuremberg: Does being under orders/coercion absolve personal responsibility? Make sure to turn on, tune in, and drop out, it should give you some mental focus.
Posted by on October 5, 2007 02:59 PM
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Mommy, what does non sequitor mean?
Oh, little Anon 2:59pm, it means 'it does not follow'. You know, how you assert that what was conluded at Nurenburg is relevent to anything in my original post. It is not, has no bearing, doubly so if you took the time to actually read the whole thing instead of pulling a sentance fragment and using that the basis for zinger 'gotcha comment'.
I did say that congress sold us out, and no it doesn't absolve them of their responsibility (if the orginal post were still on this thread, you could look that over again; it's gone missing.)
Ah, well, anon 2:59pm, my little turnip, i hope you learned something today, but i won't hold my breath, or hit, for that matter.