Fear of zealotry
We have as much to fear from zealot atheists as we have to fear from zealot religious.. It is not beliefs we have to fear but the zealotry.
This letter has not been edited.
I am broke, and need money! send the check asap.
Posted by GOD on October 17, 2007 03:36 PM
أنا [بروك] وحاجة يرسلني مال, تدقيق الآن
Did this letter come from a fortune cookie?
Posted by Dan on October 17, 2007 03:47 PMRobert Lipton makes a valid point that we need to remember:
"It is not beliefs we have to fear but the zealotry." People who have quite different beliefs can get along if they do not consider the other their natural enemy, which is the kind of thing zealots do.
If a person bears that in mind, he may be less likely to do as so many posters do and put all the blame on one side or the other when there is blame on both sides. But don't count on it.
Posted by Truth on October 17, 2007 04:09 PMTruth,
No, the point Robert makes is that "We have as much to fear from zealot atheists as we have to fear from zealot religious." Totally false - and if you believe otherwise then show some examples. The only current 'zealot atheists" I can think of are people like Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins & Christopher Hitchins - and their "zealotry" is confined to the printed word - not bombs, airplanes, beheadings and the like.
Posted by drew on October 17, 2007 04:19 PMGood point, Truth.
I’m not a particularly religious person…sort of more along the lines of a naturalist. However, some of those who often patrol this web site really irritate me with their over-the-top hatred for Christians. They don’t just voice a disagreement with Christianity, the get down right nasty about it.
On the other side of the coin are the self-righteous Bible thumpers who feel the need to get their nose into the business of others. I saw a bumper sticker that cracked me up which said, “Focus on your own family!”
Like I said, drew, Lipton makes a good point that we should keep in mind:
"It is not beliefs we have to fear but the zealotry."
If you want to concentrate on "as much to fear", that is your prerogative. But the above sentence makes good sense and is instructive. Of course, a person can concentrate on criticizing rather than learning or being reminded of something important.
Posted by Truth on October 17, 2007 07:57 PMDan had the best post. Funny.!
Posted by Sharon B. on October 17, 2007 08:10 PMDrew,
It would seem that Stalin slipped your mind.
"Drew,
It would seem that Stalin slipped your mind.
Posted by skeptical on October 17, 2007 08:29 PM"
And also Mao Zedong and Pol Pot. While it is not a reflection on atheists as a whole, and certainly not on individual atheists, nonetheless, it is true that these men were behind the death of perhaps as many as a hundred million people.
The point is, not to compare figures as drew wanted to (when he simply overlooked what zealot atheists had done), but to note that it is the zealotry that is the problem. Most atheists and non-atheists are good people and not zealots.
Posted by Truth on October 17, 2007 08:56 PM Hey,
Everyone lighten up, If you believe, may your God bless you.
If you don't, you have nothing to fear.
With the possible exception of our Born-again prez., that is. And his Bible-thumping followers.
Posted by dmz on October 17, 2007 08:56 PMYou two are small dick morons. Stalin was a Christian and Mao a Buddhist, my professors told me so.
Posted by drew on October 18, 2007 09:19 AMZealots, no matter what they are zealous about have one thing in common; they accept all evidence that agrees with their agenda and nothing that does not agree with their agenda. It is this tunnel vision that has caused so much harm and destruction in the past and will do so in the future if people don't rely on rational, reasonable dialogue and all evidence available to reach conclusions rather than personal preferences and preconcieved ideas.
Posted by Allen Campbell on October 18, 2007 11:06 AMMountain Cat,
I have nothing at all against Christianity. Indeed, I am all in favor of it. In point of fact, I have repeatedly said that I am - insofar as human frailties allow - a Christian.
I am reminded of the old saying: "Christianity is a wonderful way of life. It is too bad that so few people ever really try to live it."
But then again, to begin with, where does one find Christianity today?
On almost every street corner one finds "god's laws", for instance; which are a very selective - and very much personally selected - collection of odds and ends from a mythology book that actually belongs to Judaism; or a compilation of superstitious nonsense concerning "nature", and the Codicies of the long dead and outmoded Roman Empire, as filtered through the "infallibility" of the decayed and swinish pseudo-Caesarate, of the Pontifex Maximus, of Romanism.
Or, one finds "god's politics", usually based upon the idea that the local preacher, or one or more of his clone(s) in the cult, - as well as the local middle management bureaucrat of Romanism in a purple nightgown, the Pontifex of the See - should sit in some sort of special place in the Executive and Legislative bodies, in order to see that his - or their - superstitions, and basic ignorance and bigoted stupidity, are made to become the laws, rules, and regulations in Civil Government for everyone else in the Nation,
These, and other abberations, are ubiquitous, all over; and they all designate themselves as being (THE TRUE) "christianity". Which one is your choice for me?
Posted by Old Grouch on October 18, 2007 11:36 AMI would love to tell Christians that every time they bring some evergreen into their houses, they are honoring the Goddess. They are preforming a pagan ritual at Christmas when they think the tree honors Jesus.
Too funny. But don`t let on.
Posted by Sharon B. on October 18, 2007 01:22 PMThanks for illustrating my point, Sharon B. You always have to find a way to be rude, snide and so arrogantly condescending. Luckily, most people, even most non-believing kind, don't share your style of self-indulgent humor.
Posted by Mountain Cat on October 18, 2007 02:29 PMMountain Cat, If you don`t see the humor in Christians using a pagan ritual to worship Jesus, after they took the holiday away from the pagans in the first place, then you are just humor deficient.
Posted by Sharon B. on October 18, 2007 07:44 PMWhat do you mean they “took the holiday away from the pagans”? Can't the pagans have their holiday ritual, too? Is a holiday or a ritual something a group can actually possess at the exclusion of another group? What a silly argument!
No, you are absolutely wrong about me being huor deficient. I just choose to laugh at things which are actually funny. You are not funny because you try too hard to be so.
Posted by Mountain Cat on October 19, 2007 07:43 AM"...their "zealotry" is confined to the printed word - not bombs, airplanes, beheadings and the like."
In my opinion words can be as dangerous, or more so, than the other things you mention. This applies to either side, although a fervent belief system certainly makes things even more dangerous.
Posted by on October 19, 2007 10:51 AMMountain Cat,
Sharon's point is historically valid. When Christianity became a major religion in the Roman Empire it did appropriate former Pagan Festivals - or, if you prefer, the dates, times, and seasons thereof - as it went along through the Centuries in its Mission to the world at large. One of the first - and perhaps the foremost - of these was the old Roman Saturnalia, which coincided with a good many other forms of Winter Solstice celebrations, which became fixed in the Christian Calendar as the Nativity.
As the Gospels tell us: "There were shepherds abiding in the fields"; which, even in the area around Bethlehem of Judea would not be the usual case in the Season, or the late part of December. So, rather than an accurate date set for Christ's Birth, the Pagan Winter Solstice became - in its own way - amalgamated into Christian practice.
That there is a parallel between the Birth of Christ and the ancient ways of marking the "renewal of the sun", is, after all, merely a matter of that Collective Unconscious which is a repository of all the syntheses of reality we as humans have achieved. The external peripherals, such as evergreens for instance, may provide a bit of dichotomy, or incongruity, and may bring a smile as well.
Posted by Old Grouch on October 19, 2007 11:27 AMMountain Cat, after taking the Winter Solstice + 4 days for Jesus` birth date, they killed pagans who continued to worship their own way.
Now Christians think they must have evergreens, mistletoe and candles, all from the pagan celebration, for Christmas.
By the way, they took Easter also, from the Feast of Ester, and killed pagans again for worshiping in the old ways.
No, pagans could not have their holiday too, they were burned at the stake for that.
Have to run now, I need to go door to door promoting secular humanism today. I am a zealot you know.
Posted by Sharon B. on October 19, 2007 03:19 PMIt has always been so that when any movement, of any kind, takes flight and becomes a pulicity accepted belief, especially if it has to do with a religion, there are those just waiting for that to happen so they can exploit it to their own benefit. And there is absolutely nothing they won't to insure their success including wars and genocide.
You see there is so much potential money involved if one becomes the number one leader of any religion because; the people are conned into believing in the person, rather than the belief it's self therefore whatever he/she may ask becomes a divinely ordered requierment.
These are the ones who do the damage in the name of GOD without consulting him about being their sponsor. It is like OG says; I am a Christian, I just don't like what people will allow and what they dictate based on their interpretation of what Chritianity is so to profit from it.
They do this by making the man Jesus into the central figure instead of the spiritual Christ that he became by virtue of the Christ spirit entering his body to accomplish his preordained purpose of decending into the realm of the spirit of deception, called Ariman in the old belief but now has many names, that caused man to die both physically and spiritually.
Christianity is not a physical religion, it is a spiritual understanding of a truth and any who take it to the material absurdity of making money do not unerstand it at all.
Posted by Allen Campbell on October 20, 2007 06:00 PM"it is a spiritual understanding of a truth"
really?
what truth is that and how did you prove it?
Posted by jay on October 21, 2007 11:36 AMThe truth that is expreesed by the original christian movement as set out by the man Jesus
Posted by Allen Campbell on October 21, 2007 12:05 PM