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So one or more Republicans find a proposed sales tax referendum for disability services “heavy-handed”? (“Rift forms over aid for the disabled,” Sept. 19.) Well you might ask the parents of adults who cannot care for themselves what they think. Or the law enforcement officers who have to answer calls due to family stress relating to caring for adults with disabilities. Or the persons with disabilities who are worried or depressed because they cannot find or keep a job, the most obvious measure of success in this society. Or even all the highly paid medical professionals who keep infants and children alive at any price — to others.
In the 1980s a majority of this nation brought about a “family values” and “right-to-life” agenda. Most of these people were the very Republicans now whining about the cost; where are their right-to-life family values now? Because I don’t see them coming to my house everyday to make sure my adult daughter takes care of herself.

Cynthia Barnes, Denver

READER COMMENTS

cynthia sure soulds like you are all for the socialist method of life. I am sorry about your daughter and not sure what her needs are, but how does that relate to me taking care of her? I took care of my brother untill his death in 95 and never expected or asked for governement help. guess I was raised differently in that one takes care of their own and when then can they help the neighbors, this is done by wanting to and not have the government tell you to.
If I am not mistaken when you refer to the right to life values, you still had the option of abortion. now that is a dem value you could have used was going to planned parenthood and asked and received an abortion and you would not be burdened as you are today.
which value did you choose and why?

screw all the Dem values! No socialism period! no social programs. no medicaid. no social security. no foodstamps. no help to children. no housing for the poor ( get em jobs instead). no aids to the old poeple. no more free lunches. scrw them lazy bastards. no public schools. no govmemt handouts. no public roads. no more taxes. we should all get to keep all our own moneys.

You just don't get it. It is the Right to Unborn Life. They don't want abortions but could give a rip about kids after they have been born.

nice reply keith.
I am all for keeping my money as I can spend it better on my family than the government can

Cynthia- I feel for you- you are not alone in your struggle.
To anonymous- You are truly a mean-spirited person. Guess you don't believe in "compassionate conservatism" - government helping those who are truly needy. Why do you think it is reasonable for an adult who is truly disabled (mentally retarded, developmentally disabled) to have to fend for him/herself? What if they have no family? When they do have a parent that parent is aging too. How is that parent supposed to support herself and save for retirement while supplying fulltime care. I don't know what your situation was and I don't want to be callous or minimize your efforts but at least your situation was temporary. Without help parents of disabled adult children are responsible for them until the day they (the parents) die. Study after study shows that we are very likely to suffer from depression and other manifestations of stress. We often cannot work full time and earn health benefits and save for retirement. We have higher rates of illness. I am fortunate to get day help from our local MR/DD board; no help after hours or any respite. And no, there is no one else to help.
I don't get your pro-life point- I think the point Cynthia was trying to make is that there is more to being pro-life than being anti-abortion. I personally consider myself conservative, chose to have children knowing I would take care of them to adulthood, and have done so. But once they become adults I don't think it is unreasonable for government to help out in the case of a permanent disability from birth. Fortunately I think you are in the minority in your opinion. Unfortunately you are giving people who hold conservative views a bad name.
I hope that lawmakers will do the right thing and help this group of people- the neediest of the needy. They need supported work or day programs, help with transportation, and housing. They do NOT need to be put on waiting lists for years and years. They should receive the services they need on a timely basis.

having listened to the dums pro socialism health care debate about giving pre natal care it seems to go against their idea that abortion is not taking a childs life. if that is so why do they want pre natal care given if what is growing inside the woman is not a baby?
on and just sayin who is the one who wrote a book on it takes a village to raise a child? sounds like the lady wants others to raise her child and not do as responsible parents do.

Sounds like she has raised her child. Her "child" is now an adult.
It is reasonable to think that people should only have kids when they can support them. But when it comes to supporting a disabled adult forever, including supplying 24/7 care that goes too far. If you think people should only have kids if they can do that no one would have any kids! Until you have been in that situation you have no idea what it is like.

Keith sounds like a real sharpie.

Funny how all these rightwingers are against socialism in our own country and expect our own to take care of our own but supports us giving healthcare to the Iraq people and fighting their war for them. When will they be held to the same standards you all expect americans to do?

Hey jimd- be careful what you wish for! You'll probably be elderly someday

Amazing that after all this time that people have haven't realized that Keith is another poster trying to be clever and use multiple aliases to reinforce their positions by juxtaposition. Guess people just see what they want to see.

"Funny how all these rightwingers"
Do you even understand what the terms right and left stand for in a political sense? Rightism is supposed to be the viewpoint that individual rights(so long as they don't impact other's right, shouldn't have to put that in but I know someone will use the murdering brute straw man if I don't)come first and society/government's only purpose is to protect the rights of the individuals within that society. Leftism is the view that there is some sort of societal gestalt above and beyond the individuals of the society that provides the justification for the sacrifice of individuals for the "greater good". Nothing the Bush administration has done since day one places them in the right hand side, they are only right wing relative to far left. The fact that their vision of "greater good" differs from yours does not make the administration any less left wing, you are all a bunch of socialist nutjobs who like to talk about how great Euro-socialism is and selectively ignore what happed in socialist Germany and socialist Russia. As I recall, the "greater good" demanded that millions die for the good of the Motherland/Fatherland, and yet the only ones prospering were the big fish on top, not the "people" who were being enslaved, tortured, and killed. Get your facts straight, the last time this country really had even quasi- right wing politicians was during the founding years, and they were all a bunch of hypocrites that owned slaves, the antithesis of individual rights. Please, though, launch into a tirade about how benevolent it would be to have universal healthcare so that healthy individuals like myself have to pay for a bunch of obese, smoking drinking, my hands are always extended for a free handout, folks like you rather than getting the choice to not pay for insurance.

"screw all the Dem values! No socialism period! no social programs. no medicaid. no social security. no foodstamps. no help to children. no housing for the poor ( get em jobs instead). no aids to the old poeple. no more free lunches. scrw them lazy bastards. no public schools. no govmemt handouts. no public roads. no more taxes. we should all get to keep all our own moneys."

Keith-You forgot libraries, the military, police, fire, prisons.

What an idiot.

who really killed Mary Jo?

Does anyone suppose that keith and his wingnut buddies here will, the next time they drive through a pothole in the road, stop, whip out the tools and a yard or two of cold patch and fix that road themselves. Or will they get on their phone and ream some city/county/state agency to come fix their road?
Someday the wingnuts are going to realize that Germany was "socialist" in the same way that conservatives are "compassionate" that is it's a wonderful cover.One of the better PR scams in history right up there with mushroom cloud smoking guns

"Germany was "socialist" in the same way that conservatives are "compassionate that is it's a wonderful cover"
Do you even know what the word socialism means? I guess this is our fantastic, union-enabled education system at work. Anyone who would try and argue that WWII Germany wasn't well on its way to socialism if not all the way there is an ignorant fool, most of the country's wealth/power was invested in the state, which is basically the definition of socialism. But to judge by your name, you're probably the arrogant type that thinks that it's true if you think it, research be damned, aren't you, Zeus?

"Let's blame the victims", one of the great mantras of the "Me" generation, seems to be the best argument some of the people have on this thread. And, 8:38, you're right. It took me awhile to catch on but after a while, I did. You've got to admit, some of those rants are really hilarious.

Cynthia

As an adult who has a disabled father who was taken care of at home by my mother, along with help from the rest of the family, I have the moral authority to say take care of your own damn family member! It isn’t easy to hear but the people need to stop depending on everybody else to take care of them. When you become helpless and depend on the government to provide everything for you then you simple become prisoners of the government.

Wake up America!!! We are moving towards a socialist country and whiners like Cynthia are fueled by socialists/communist like Hitler Robb’em Clinton. In case all of you have forgotten socialism is bad. If it is so great why don’t all the libs move to a socialist country? Because they would take the money from all these rich elitists and give a third to the poor and keep the other two-thirds for their military gaurds and personal palaces.

Please, please, please wake up America.

And how dare you liberals call conservatives mean spirited when you have done nothing but bash women, gays, and Afro-Americans unless they bow to your socialist view of the world! What you did to Judge Thomas is despicable. I got an idea – how about Condoleezza Rice for President? She is a black woman so should be a shoe in right? No, the left would call her every racists and sexist name in the book to be sure a conservative didn’t get elected.

Oh, and David X…yes, I get out my shovel and grater to fix the pot holes on the dirt road I live on. I live in the country so I don’t have to put up will all the liberal morons who sit in Denver and cry for the tax raising major to come plow their Prius driving butts out of the snow. I’ll show you compassion when I bring you food in the next snow storm while you’re trapped in two foot of snow waiting for the government to save you like the “victims” of hurricane Katrina.

who really killed Mary Jo?

Posted by on October 4, 2007

It was Laura Bush' boyfriend. Laura took care of him later.

SB-LW,

I'm glad you, and your other family members, had the resources to help your mother with your father's disability. Wasn't there a time when you or your mother could have used some help and weren't able to get it? What about those who don't have those resources or who are confronted with a much more debilitating illnesses than your father? Let them rot? You sound pretty bitter to me. Whatever happened to "compassionate conservatives"? It was just a campaign lie, and a lot of people fell for it. But when it comes to hundreds of billions for corporate welfare, thats OK?!

Well there you go. Cynthia's daughter just ought to ask her spouse and children to help. Oh wait- she probably doesn't have any! I'll bet she didn't go to college or trade school, have a career, buy a house, or save for her care like able bodied people can do. You're comparing apples and oranges here. I admit I don't have a lot of sympathy for those who are able bodied and normal minded who get to retirement age and don't have any money for care (that's the conservative in me). But people who are disabled from birth are a different story. Please explain exactly how a sole caregiver is supposed to care for them full time and work to pay the living expenses for both of them, let alone save for their own future care, especially when you consider the duration of care of a young disabled adult vs. an older one. You just can't be in two places at the same time. Maybe you could stop looking at everything as black and white (no pun intended). Advocating for help for the most disadvantaged people in our society does not mean we want the government to do everything for us. I personally plan to take care of my own retirement needs including long term care if necessary, paid my own way through college and happen to think everyone else should do the same if they want to go bad enough, have reservations about expanding SCHIP especially since there are needier people out there. So please stop painting everybody with the same brush. Did you hear me call all conservatives mean-spirited? Fortunately all the ones I know have no problem helping out the developmentally disabled- the funds to pay for care in my county are established by vote (a property tax levy) and are always overwhelmingly approved by both conservatives and liberals here. Well I'm done saying my piece- we'll just have to agree to disagree.

But you just have to love it when a rugged individuals luck runs out and they need help. It isn`t socialism when their names on the check.

See cons don't care about helping the poor or the handicap. What is important to them is taking care of the rich. Making sure the Haliburtons and the Enrons and their executives make their billions. And they have dummies like an american and keith buying into their song and dance. If one of them personlly needed help they wouldn't think twice to ask for it.

the only mean spirted conservitives you call mean are the ones who dont agree with you lisa. so lisa how many disabled memebers do have to care for now or in the past?
it is so nice that you can call people who expect others to be responsible mean spirted and then say you have no worry for someone who did not save for retirement. sorta talking out both sides of the pie hole if you ask me.

Dorky Fairy Larry and Lisa sitting in a tree, waiting for they're welfare checks.

Seems to me the problem is no one is willing to let the people in a community be the ones who help out those in need. Worked just fine before welfare and Medicaid. It just didn't provide votes. It is much easier to buy votes with the lie of government compassion and caring than it is with doing a good job and caring more about the government doing the right things for the people than the government doing things for "my" voters.

Charity and charitable organizations exist to help others. Can't say there would be as much charity as there is welfare if the system were discontinued but perhaps the people in a community are better able to tell the difference between a disabled from birth person and a druggie waiting at the mailbox for a handout.

I know, from experience, there is very little good about the present system. My grand daughter gets a free lunch at school even though we never applied for it. Found out it is a done deal for all kids whose parents receive food stamps for them. Oops. We DIDN'T get food stamps then and went all the way through the process to clear this up four times because my step-daughter-in-law keeps applying for, and getting, them even though we have had custody for more than half of the child's life. We go in and fill out the papers, usually have to wait for the ones printed in English because the ones in the box are all in Spanish, wait for an appointment and then explain, with documentation, that we have not applied for food stamps and don't want them. Got a surprise visit from Social Services for a home inspection once because we had to be hiding something if we didn't want food stamps we were entitled to get. Guess they can spare the time for kids who aren't being starved or abused. Showed them the pantry and the fridge. Showed them the menu on the fridge and the pre-prepped things for dinner. Let them wander all over the house. Still suspicious, they demanded to know why we wanted to deprive her of her benefit! Also got hot under the collar because we aren't using Medicaid, we have private insurance. Our income is so low they can't believe we don't need them. Friend, lawyer friend I might add, said not to irritate them because they will defend themselves and their actions and there is no one who will call them on it. Advised us to get the food stamps and buy one gallon of milk a month. We also covered her under Medicaid but keep her insured with our private plan. Will most likely be pestered to sign her up for SCHIP too. Might do that for the dental but will see if we can pay for it ourselves on a private plan first.

Reason for the long example? Simple. When the charity is mandated by government fiat rather than actual, observed need there will be waste, inefficiency and just plain office politics including make work and inventing victims to inflate the job. Happens all the time.

Problem is human nature. Another example. Long time ago there was a meat plant, in Denver, that processed meat for canned beef. A retired plant worker, who told me this story years ago, noticed that after the meat was cooked the water it was cooked with was sent straight down the sewer. He suggested that they collect at least some of it and use it to feed the hungry as a rich meat soup. Company turned him down because they'd tried that, long before welfare, and had to discontinue it almost immediately. It attracted a lot of bums who ran off the families and others they hoped to help. Those who remained left trash and destruction and were always loitering around the kitchen building. They couldn't be bothered to clean up after themselves. That's they way it is with general, non-personal, charity. People will take advantage without taking responsibility. Those hurt by the result are usually the ones most in need of help and least able to "stand" in line to get it because the lazy and the loiterers will fill up that line as soon almost before it forms.
Specific charity, and that includes many non-religious groups of which Planned Parenthood used to be, not sure if they still are, a part would help people based on real need not perceived need. Government takes away money from all on the well intentioned premise that there will be more money available if all give. There will be more money and less accountability because of human natures of those getting as well as those giving. End result is less money to the truly needy.
Until we can create a government system that is as efficient and as strict as private charity, there will be people who really need help who don't get it, because they are hidden in the crowd of people who get because they can get it, not because they need to get it.

OK, my bad- I should not have resorted to name-calling. Lets say instead I disagree (with some of the previous posts). Didn't quite make out the question above- how many disabled adults do I care for? One, age 24. I am able to work because she is fortunate to be in a supported work environment during the day. The rest of the time I'm it. I do think times have changed. People aren't just going to pitch in and help out. I have asked family and the answer was no. I think it's a little much to ask of a neighbor. I didn't coin the term "compassionate conservative" but here is my take on it. People ought to take care of themselves if they are able but there should be a role for government to help those who cannot take care of themselves- especially when cost-effective. Examples- mentally ill, prenatal care, immunizations for low-income kids (or all kids?); K-12 education with some school choice options so kids don't get stuck in a failing school. Temporary assistance like job training so people can get back on their feet . Help for disabled, as we have been discussing, so their families can work and take care of their own expenses, not necessarily taking over their care completely. Actually by providing some assistance to caretakers of disabled and elderly they can stay in the home longer and save money in the long run. You can believe in small government without thinking that everything the government does is bad. Personally I would rather pay taxes to help fund competent care for, say, people with severe mental illnesses, or the frail elderly, or others who can't care for themselves, than to provide the care for them myself (not that I am qualified to do so). By the way Momma y- you are always an eloquent contributor. Wish I could express myself as well as you do. You make some good points.

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