More ID requirements for voting is wrong
Re: “Proving Who You Are” Editorial, Oct. 1, 2007 Dear Editor(s): There is an essential difference between boarding a plane and voting in an election. Voting is for many Americans the primary way that they participate in our democracy. It is a fundamental right protected by our constitution and it is critical that Colorado protect this right.
The argument for those who push increased identification for voting is flawed. There is scant evidence to demonstrate that voter fraud in the form of voter impersonation even exists. Indeed, the Colorado County Clerks Association testified numerous times before the state legislature that there were no known instances of fraud in the state. The evidence does show that the number of people disenfranchised by ID requirements far exceeds the number of people who might be deterred from the risky felonious act of voting in the name of another person.
Many Coloradans cannot afford basic necessities such as food, shelter or electricity. How, then, is it acceptable to expect them to pay for an ID to exercise their right to vote? These laws fall hardest on people who have traditionally faced barriers at the polls. The impact of ID requirements hits hardest - the elderly, students, people with disabilities, low-income individuals, and people of color. Do these otherwise eligible voters have less of a right to vote?
Colorado should champion policies that encourage all eligible voters to participate on Election Day, not ones that place serious impediments in their paths.
This letter has not been edited.
jenny,
One has to have id to do or get anything these days, social programs, library cards, rent movies at Block Buster etc. Yet you wish us to believe that voting needs not be validated? We don't even control our borders and have 20-30 million illegal aliens within our boundaries. That's good enough for me to want ID's at all polling stations.
There is no known documentation of voter fraud, because there is no way to track it in Colorado, since there is no id requirement.
But, according to the same parroted statements
we see all the time regarding ID and voter fraud of "Many Coloradans cannot afford basic necessities such as food, shelter or electricity," we are expected to believe that many Coloradans do not drive, cash checks, rent movies, or buy alcohol, as each instance involves a picture ID.
According to Colorado Census statistics, the population in CO is 4.7 million people, of which 10% are over 65, 25% are under 18, with only 10% below the poverty line. (2005 Census numbers)
I am sure that we all could support free id cards for those in poverty, to assure, not that someone is voting in another's name, as Ms. Flanagan would have us believe is the problem, but that all those voting are ELIGIBLE to vote. Meaning citizens of the United States and non-felons.
But, with a median household income of $50,105, I don't think it is too much to say that almost everyone should be able to afford a $4.10 State ID (of which anyone over 60 gets free). So, Ms. Flanagan, what is the real issue with ID requirements for voting, especially in Colorado?
Posted by Dan2 on October 15, 2007 03:03 PMWe must absolutely verify who is voting at the polls. With the number of illegal aliens entering this country using fake papers to work, and driving without a license or insurance, why on earth would we not verify who is voting. Unless this is all part of the grand scheme to give it all away.
Posted by Justice4All on October 15, 2007 03:05 PMCommon Cause of Denver?
How about some Common Sense Jenny!
Posted by jane on October 15, 2007 03:19 PMEvery illegal who crosses our border and is working or committing crimes,have fake id's,fake social security numbers.
Are you trying to tell me it's okay for them to commit voter fraud too!
Just add another crime the 12-20 million illegals want as a right.
Posted by Can I get an AMEN! on October 15, 2007 03:32 PMBut if they have to have an ID that will stop them from voting at every precinct in town! Forcing people to show an ID to vote doesn't work so well for those in a certain political party that want you to "Vote early and vote often"
I'm sure that never happens even though some places don't require an ID to claim you are somebody and vote.
Jenny, unfortunately you and your political action group seem more interested in people getting around our laws rather than following them and voting more than once is what you appear to be proposing here by fighting this type of rule.
Heaven forbid as Dan2 mentions above you have to present an ID to buy your bottle of wine at the liquor store, maybe we should abandon that law as well and just ask them their ages and believe what they say.
Jenny:
You make the case for the additional voter I.D. requirements in your letter. You state:
"Voting is for many Americans the primary way that they participate in our democracy."
I couldn't agree more. Legal citizens of the U.S., otherwise known as Americans do find their primary way of participation in our democratic process is by voting. To maintain an un-diluted franchise, it is imperative that we have a more stringent I.D. system to check whether someone is a legal citizen of the U.S. AKA - AMERICAN.
Posted by Nostra Damus on October 15, 2007 04:16 PMJenny Flanagan,
"It is a fundamental right protected by our constitution and it is critical that Colorado protect this right."
Colorado should protect my right as a citizen to not have my vote cancelled out because of voter fraud. The argument that it is too expensive can be handled by offering them free, You are old or disabled! We can come to your house and give you one free. You lost yours! Submit a provisional vote and when you find your ID or get a new one, then let us know and your vote will be included.
There, we just took all of the fraudulent votes out of the system, no illegal or felons. See how simple that is. And they will have an ID if they ever board a plane, or apply for any social programs.
Just like making English our official language, requiring an ID would make it more difficult for the illegal immigrates to vote and collect money from social programs. To some people that is totally unacceptable and it appears you may be one of them.
Jenny, you are an idiot. Please contemplate why I said that.
Posted by truthy on October 15, 2007 04:32 PM"The argument that it is too expensive can be handled by offering them free, You are old or disabled! We can come to your house and give you one free"
Hmmm....free stuff from the gov't....sounds a lot like socalism to me. Are you cons now saying that socalism is OK?
Posted by on October 15, 2007 04:33 PMVoteing is a responsibility as much as a right of AMERICAN CITIZENS. It is not up to those who are not citizens, or have lost thier privilage to vote to make decisions that will effect future generations.
It is absurd to equate voteing to getting on board a plane. Or for that matter renting a movie, buying alcohol. Just because Jenny claims that there has never been any documented cases of voter fraud in Colorado does not mean it has not nor will ever happen. Having identification to ensure proper legal votes is acceptable and not a hardship for anyone.
Posted by JustAnotherOpinion on October 15, 2007 04:35 PMThis is a bogus discussion. If someone jaywalks, they can be held by the police until they produce proof of identity.
100% of those who receive money legally sometimes do so by check . How do they cash their checks without ID? Even those who get direct deposit or take credit cards need IDs to open the account.
Has anyone ever checked to seen what percentage of legal residents lack ID?
Posted by freethinker on October 15, 2007 04:50 PMSo then following freethinkers logic it should be ok to ask for identification at the polls. Those who are legal should have no problem proving who they are. Those who are trying to commit fraud will leave.
Posted by on October 15, 2007 05:13 PMI don't drive, rent movies or cash checks and I wish someone would ask me for my ID when I buy alcohol (it's been decades) but when I go to vote, the election judge always verifies that I'm registered in the precinct. If I wasn't, my vote would be seriously questioned, if not rejected. It's a tempest in a teapot. Many people, who are eligible, don't vote anyway. The level of fraud, when compared to the percentage of those who actually vote, has got to be small. Who would bother to vote more than once, since your vote is so insignificant in the big picture? Maybe for city council, but not for state or federal office.
Remember, it's not who votes that counts but who counts the votes.
Posted by Stan B on October 15, 2007 05:38 PMWow, Jenny - you make absolutely no sense. I try to say something positive about almost any posting I reply to, but in this case I honestly cannot. Wow.
Posted by Mac on October 15, 2007 07:47 PMI sifted through the garbage that has been posted and I see that no one came up with any facts to rebut what Jenny said about there being no known cases of voter impersonation. So, if the proposal is not to solve a problem that exists, what could the purpose be?
Posted by Truth on October 15, 2007 08:43 PMAWOL-MIA: Congressional Black Caucus - CBC, NAACP, and state/local gov't politicians. MLKII must be rolling over in his grave. Bull COnnor must be busting his gut. The best example of black voter "NULLIFICATION", in all of America, resides in N.E. Denver. Salazar (former SAG) and Owens laid the foundation for this voter fraud. Webb chased blacks out of the Five Points are by tripeling their property taxes. Next, Salazar and the state GOP posse, pulled off a slick Texas style re-districting in N.E. Denver. Shamnesty Salazar allowed his criminal illegal Mexicans to register, and they actuually voted. Result: For the first time in decades, there was no black elected representation on RTD's board of directors (13 whites and 2 Latinos). TRANSLATION: No black voice in the disbursement of more than $14 billion (jobs and contracts) in the T-REX, Fas Tracks, CBMS, and Fitzsimons redevelopment (Mormon cash-cow directed by Tauer, Owens, Salazar, BoPeep/Brimhall) projects. A gigantic economic "sucking" and raping sound, heard throughout N.E. Denver. Hiding under their desks and pulpits, singing stanzas from "We Shall Overcome", were Groff, T. Carroll, Marshall, Jones, CBC -scared of illegal advocates, NAACP, Hancock, Patterson, Wedgeworth, and Denver Greater Ministerial Alliance.
Posted by 40acresandmymule on October 15, 2007 09:34 PMTruth,
It was proven there were people who voted twice, they were registered in NY and in Florida. And if my memory serves me correctly wasn't there a woman from one of the western states that was actually holding a elected office that was proven to be an illegal. Additionally how many states are now issuing drivers license to illegals, with a drivers license anyone can register to vote.
This is just another attempt to make it easier for illegals to vote.
4:33
It would be far less expensive than giving everyone free health insurance. Socialism is taking it from the free market and giving it to the government, the last I checked issuing a state ID was not being preformed by a free market company. But hey! That was a good try
Posted by jgd777 on October 15, 2007 09:38 PMHave you all forgotten the proud slogan of Chicago Dems - VOTE EARLY AND OFTEN?
And it isn't just Chicago,it happens all over,
Including in Denver.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/02/ap/politics/mainD8KGIHB01.shtml
Is anyone surprised a Liberal voters rights group is responsible for this fraud?
And Truth,
What do you suppose could be done with all these fraudulent and duplicate voter registrations if valid ID were not mandatory?
Would this secure or harm the integrity of the election process?
WARNING - check out the instructions in your mail-in ballots, which - at least in Lakewood - mandate that your ballot will be trashed instead of counted if you don't include proof that you are an eligible voter, even if you have been a registered voter for years if not decades at your current address. (You also must re-fold the ballot exactly as it was received.)
Posted by Mary on October 16, 2007 05:39 AMGee Truth with your logic we must all be so honest and trustworthy.
Why be reactionary when you can be proactive and head a problem off before it occurs? (which probably already has happened - think back to Chicago)
Trash is right and yours is just another posting that belongs in the circular file.
Why do the dead, always vote democrat? Voter fraud is the theft of freedom. Enough?
Posted by Breeze on October 16, 2007 08:07 AMMAKE 'EM PROVE WHO THEY ARE!
The provisional ballot was the first step in allowing felons and illegal aliens the right to vote. And without proof of ID, who says they won't vote 2-3 times?
The Dems have been behind this pathetic move to cheapen our citizenship for decades. Even the dead get to vote for that crowd.
Posted by Hank on October 16, 2007 08:18 AMIn a population of approximately 175 million adults who are potential voters, this line of postings cites isolated incidents from 2 states - without giving the numbers involved - of multiple voting, or some other form of vote fraud; along with a single instance of an office holder who is alleged to have committed fraud to obtain the office.
On the "strength" of this trivia, we are then given a whole lot of additional rhetoric about the political intentions of those who are most disliked by the writer.
Such a wholesale return of conjecture on such a trifling investment of (dubious at best ) allegations, posing as "facts", seems to be just about the norm - at least for this blog - of the "thinking" to be found among those most vocal in their abuse of anything, and anyone, they call "liberal".
But, that's to be expected.
I remember an old vinyl 33 and 1/3 that came out back in the 60's. On it there was a "punch line": "Vote for the Kennedy of your choice; but vote!"
Now, the Chicago joke: "Vote early and often!" is being hurled about as something to be taken seriously.
I appears we don't have to wait much longer for the "dumbing down of America" to be a total reality. The Republican/"conservative" posters here are already demonstarting just how stupid they are.
Posted by Old Grouch on October 16, 2007 08:57 AMThe "Dumbing Down of America" has worked very well on Old Grouch I see.
Posted by on October 16, 2007 09:58 AMThere was voter fraud in 2000 and 04' which almost made it possible that gore and kerry could of got in which would of been a major disaster.If we allow illegals to vote and the blacks to vote numberous times we will get screwed by clinton getting in.
Posted by Keith on October 16, 2007 10:16 AMCommon Cause knows that the more fraud there is in elections the more Democrats win.In fact if it were not for lies and fraud there would be no Democrat party !!!
Posted by An American on October 16, 2007 10:57 AMFirst off, "truth", I'm not here to "rebut what Jenny said about there being no known cases of voter impersonation."
I'm here to ask why it seems you believe
that simple because it (supposedly) hasn't happened already, that it could NEVER happen in the future?
That, "truth", is exactly like saying "I'm not going to wear my seatbelt because I've never been in an accident."
Tell us, "truth", do you wear your seatbelt?
Also, please note, as usual you are a tiny, tiny,
fraction of the people here. And you seem to believe that it's OK to have to have an ID to do a myriad of far more trivial things than vote, but when it comes to proving who you are at the polls, that is unthinkable and beyond the pale.
Careful, your pro-illegal-alien adgenda
is showing.......
Old Grouch,
"Now, the Chicago joke: "Vote early and often!" is being hurled about as something to be taken seriously."
If you would have lived in Chicago during Mayor Daly's reign you would not consider it a joke it is well documented in Chicago's history.
ACORN continues to submit "questionable" voter registration forms. Many of which have been thrown out,
Colorado's Secretary Davidson admitted over 6000 convicted felons were registered to vote in 2004
During the recount of Florida's vote in 2004 numerous incidents of multi-state registration were discovered,
You must be the only person in the country that believes there is no fraudulent votes being submitted in our elections. I am willing to bet your boys Gore and Kerry believes there are.
Posted by jgd777 on October 16, 2007 12:34 PMAnother interesting thing Jenny whines and
whimpers
"Many Coloradans cannot afford basic necessities such as food, shelter or electricity. How, then, is it acceptable to expect them to pay for an ID to exercise their right to vote?"
Funny we hear from these bleeding-hearts about all the poor people, but NEVER from anyone who actually "can't afford" some form of I.D.
I submit it's all a big lie fostered by illegal-alien-lovers who want to let all the illegal-aliens vote.
Old Grouch is lost in his own little lib dream world and is nothing but a babbling embarrassment.
Aren't you supposed to get wiser with age?
WHATS WITH THAT?
If you're worried about vote fraud, you may want to check on your legislators:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG6X-xtVask
Posted by CL on October 17, 2007 11:27 AM