Moveon.org’s ad
You no doubt recall the recent ad by MoveOn.org in which General Petraeus was referred to as General Betrayus. Much well-deserved outrage followed this insult. It seems the defenders of MoveOn.org have launched an effort to deflect attention which can be called the “So’s Your Mother” defense. In other words, instead of admitting that what they did was wrong, they’ll try to dig up anything wrong ever done by their enemies and focus on that. A case in point: A few days ago, MSNBC’s David Shuster interviewed Tennessee Republican Congresswoman Marsha Blackburn. The subject was supposed to be the MoveOn.org ad and the Congresswoman’s opposition to it. Instead, Mr. Shuster ambushed Ms. Blackburn by asking her what the name of the last person from her district was who died in Iraq, and then providing a name himself and berating the Congresswoman for not knowing it and lecturing her about how she should pay more attention to those sorts of things and less to the ad.
Let’s see, as we later learned: 1) The name Shuster gave was of a person who had NOT lived in the Congresswoman’s district; 2) The family of the soldier who had died had filed a request under the Federal Privacy Act, as is their right, that the soldier’s name not be revealed; and, 3) It is simply unreasonable to expect any Congressperson of either party to know at any and every given moment the name of the last person from their district to die in Iraq. Have Republicans (and Democrats!) done things that are distasteful in the past? Yes. Does that in any way justify the MoveOn.org ad and/or Mr. Shuster’s treatment of the Congresswoman? No. The last time I checked, two wrongs still do not a right make.
So we are left with Mr. Shuster being a non-fact-checking opportunist who would rather prostitute the memory of a fallen soldier to score a point than call the MoveOn.org ad what it is: pure crap. If Dan Rather couldn’t get away with it, Mr. Shuster shouldn’t either. He should apologize to the Congresswoman, the family of the fallen soldier, and to his viewers, although I’m not holding my breath.
This letter has not been edited.
I lik fox new not dum democrats I hop bush rule world
Posted by a amerikan on October 8, 2007 02:51 PMYeah, let's focus on the real problem! Some guys took out some adspace, and all Shuster wants to do is talk about people dying for a mistake. That kind of anti-American BS is killing this country (well, not literally. Literally it is the Bush admin killing this country).
Side topic: what do you think about Rush calling soldiers who do not support Bush "phony soldiers?"
I'm sure the outrage would be there, but you're just all outraged out, because you're so gosh darned concerned about the troops!
Posted by Grog on October 8, 2007 03:30 PMGrog you really think that Rush meant all soldiers not supporting Bush to be phony Soldiers? I have read read the transcripts and the edited transcripts and like many liberal people out there do not see the correlation at all. And by all means do not think much of Rush, but cmon that is a stretch. There are most likey many other quotes and discussions that blast Rush than this one.
Where is the outrage of the comments of the Philly Manager after Game 1 with the Rockies and using the word lose instead of Win?
If you listen enough to a person whose job is communication (good or bad / agree, disagree) you can find multiple instances of confusion on text of what was statede. Add to that "editing and soundbite" and we can turn the words topsy turvy and completely out of text. This is becoming the norm in Politics (both Dem and Rep). And we as the public eat it up as it fits our ideology. Not only do we eat it up, we pay handsomely for this crap
Side Topic: ABC news ran a piece on "Phony Soldiers" a week before Rush made the comment about Jesse McCarthy the proven "phony soldier". He failed boot camp, never saw a day of battle, never even left the USA...
Don't want to let facts get in the way of your outrage...
Posted by on October 8, 2007 03:46 PMOh gosh! Oh golly! There was an ad! In a newspaper!
Stop the presses!!!!!
Posted by Charles B. on October 8, 2007 04:07 PM"...Jesse McCarthy the proven "phony soldier". He failed boot camp, never saw a day of battle, never even left the USA..."
Personally, I think Limbaugh is just a windbag entertainer. However, for Harry Reid and other "great Democratic leaders" to take Limbaugh's words about this phony baloney soldier -- who the left anti war people pushed to the forefront for his "honesty and willingness to speak out with the truth --and twist them into an attack just shows how weak the Democrats really are when it comes to intellectual honesty.
Posted by Joseph S on October 8, 2007 04:10 PMAs usual Charles B is never on topic.
Posted by on October 8, 2007 04:13 PM As usual, anon 4;13 doesn't stay on topic, because one cannot defend the indefensable. So, in honor of John Lennons birthday, since we have pigs running loose in the White House, let's all sing a rousing chorus of " Little Piggies"!
And if I've pissed off a pig for the comparisson to " compassionate AWOL republics" then I humbly apologize to the pig.
zmd - Oh now that makes a lot of sense, thanks for proven his point.
Posted by on October 8, 2007 04:34 PM And Rush is , just a phony ...........whatever he claims to be , What is it anyway? All I 've been able to determine is that he does drugs , dodges drafts, divorces wives , defames Americans and deposits huge checks for calling Women femi-nazis.
What a guy.
Well , I can at least sleep well, knowing that he is evidently being hoisted on his own pitard.
And it's about time.
I heard about the ad, due to our media's ability to focus endlessly on the irrelevent. Didn't care about it then, don't care now.
Posted by on October 8, 2007 04:53 PM"You no doubt recall the recent ad by MoveOn.org in which General Petraeus was referred to as General Betrayus."
Can't say that I do. Haven't heard a thing about it since then.
P.S. DMZ, check your copy of the White Album. George wrote "Piggies".
Posted by on October 8, 2007 05:27 PM5:27
Right you are, I'm sorry and I admit my mistake. We Liberals do that y'know.
It's just that I haven't been able to get that song out of my head lately , what with all the hubbub about "El Rushbo" and the endless war looming on the horizon.
Over religion, for Christ's sake.
May both John AND George rest in the peace they "imagined " for us all.
The democrates and the liberal media have anti-American, anti-military. Their continuous rants of how we've lost this war and the media only reporting negative news is influencing people who can't think for themselves. CNN even interviewed a terrorist as he sniped and killed two of our solders. CNN showed it. How anti-American, anti-military is that?
It doesn't matter that Al-queda is in Iraq killing women and children and hiding behind civilians. It doesn't matter that H. Clinton, John Kerry (traitor), and Muther (a bigger traitor) voted for action in Iraq. These democrats want us to cut and run and leave Iraq to Al-queda and the terrorists.
Why? Because they just want to win an election. Liberals don't give damn about this country. Clinton already wants to raise our taxes and put in a health care system that has already proven to failure in Canada. That's why top Canadians come to the US for serious medical treatment.
And Hollywood also wants us to lose this war. Even though if Al-queda took over they would be the first to be killed. Do you really think Al-queda would let women speak out? Or let us make movies?
Democrates need to wake up. President Bush has the balls to fight terrorism. Unlike Clinton who sat on his fat ass getting blowjobs by a teenager through multiple terrorist acts and did nothing except makes critical cuts to our military.
Just look at what liberals at Colorado schools are teaching these days. Jay Benish, a high school teacher teaching anti-American, anti-president, ant-everything. And Churchill, my god what is there even to say about a school that hires a lying, plagiarism fool like that. And now the Boulder kids walking out on saying the pledge. That is how the democrates want to teach our kids. Completely anti-American.
Mike Hazzard and the rest of you morons who say the the MoveOn.org ad called the Political Hack (Petraus) General Betrayus need to learn more about matters. What that ad did was not call him that, but rather it posed the question as to whether or not he is betraying us. However, I do not expect any of you asskissing bush lovers to understand this as most are like him (Bush). He has trouble understanding the English language and using it properly.
Posted by A True American on October 8, 2007 07:51 PMMoveon.org is run by George Soros, the billionaire left wing currency speculator. If Soros were a Republican who spent that much on politics, the press would be all over him. Instead they pretend that Moveon.org is independent. HA.
Posted by Yaakov Watkins on October 9, 2007 12:09 AMMike
Turns out Shuster was right. No need for any apology.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/09/28/david-shuster-was-right/
Yaakov:
Rupert murdoch, the billionaire right wing conservative media monopoly holder constantly geys a pass from the press.
Posted by GK on October 9, 2007 05:33 AMI challenge the CSU Collegian (US Rep. Lamborn too) and CSU College Republicans-Ram Republic newspapers, to investigate the "phony military service records" of Bush and USSC Affirmative Action (AA) Judge Alito. It is widely known Bush is a 40+ years UCMJ-felon; AWOL, deserter, and guilty of illegal separation and discharge. AA Alito is a carbon copy.
Cong. Bush violated Truman's executive order which desegregated all of our military units, when he carved out a NAM sanctuary slot for "W" in the racially segregated Texas Air NAtiona Guard. Cong. Bush resegregated all of our military units and violated the Civil Rights Act of 1964 too. High crimes and misdeameanors anyone?.
Alito blew off his military service too. He fleeced, pimped, and exploited taxpayers for 7 years of free college (JD and undergrad degrees) in the US Army's ROTC program. Alito incurred an 11 year active duty obligation as a result of these gifts, however, he is a felonious "no-show". Therefore, AA Alito should be court martialed and given 3 years in federal prison. Pretend he is black, like me.
Posted by draftdodgingisntafamilyvalue on October 9, 2007 08:03 AMGK:
"Rupert murdoch, the billionaire right wing conservative media monopoly holder constantly geys a pass from the press."
Could you expand on that? Maybe provide some examples?
Posted by KW on October 9, 2007 08:56 AMpickedalongnicksoyouwouldbehardtoresondto
Waa Waa Waa. Same blather everyday. Do you ever have an original thought? In case you have not noticed Bush is not running for anything and has only 1 year left. The smart thing to do would be to focus on what is going to happen in just over 1 year. Things Like, "What is a convicted thief doing helping a candidate".
Posted by VB on October 9, 2007 09:03 AMLet's not forget George Soros is also the money behind Media Matters.He is just hiding his money behind a dummy corporation.
Dummy!
Posted by on October 9, 2007 09:06 AMCould we beat this dead horse some more?
Posted by Dan on October 9, 2007 09:15 AMMs. Manners's class in Advanced Dead Horse Beating is now assembled.
Sit down at your keyboards, kiddies; and remember: Strike hard! Because the harder you strike, the more lasting impression you make.
Posted by Old Grouch on October 9, 2007 09:16 AMThe ironic thing is that even though the ad only used the name betrayus and asked some pertinent questions about the authenticity of the general's information, the name itself was not of moveon.org's devising but came instead from troops formerly under his command
Posted by: Brad R. Torgersen | November 18, 2005 at 08:07 AM
Petraeus may have been loved by his troops but his officers hated him. He was a pompous, "mine is bigger than yours" kind of guy.
And Posted by: Brad R. Torgersen | November 18, 2005 at 07:23 PM
I don't know GEN Petraeus personally...but when I was in the "Devil Brigade" folks called him "Colonel Betrayus". He came up with things like the "Devil button" (button your BDU collar up to the top when on jumps) and the "Devil grip" (special name for keeping your trigger finger out of the trigger well) which sounded hokey to most of the troops at the time.
Both of the above came from the following website:http://www.blackfive.net/main/2005/11/generals_of_yes.html which would not appear to be a bastion of anti-military liberal rhetoric.
By the same token I have yet to see or hear any wingnut take on oxyrush limpballs who on his radio show, told his audience that he had a new name for Senator Chuck Hagel: "Senator Betrayus."
All in all pretty typical of the double standard the denizens of lower wingnutistan operate under.
Then there is the little matter evidently missed by the liberal biased media in which the good general's immediate superior Admiral Fallon commander of Centcom informed the general that Fallon told Petraeus [in March] that he considered him to be “an ass-kissing little chickensh*t” and added, “I hate people like that”, the sources say. That remark reportedly came after Petraeus began the meeting by making remarks that Fallon interpreted as trying to ingratiate himself with a superior.
davis X. Machina
The question is not about the General personally or his professional ability. The question is whether we respect the integrity of the officer corps as a non-political institution that operates with professional integrity.
Petraeus was branded a traitor by a leading Democrat special interest group in an ad published in the nation's leading newspaper before he gave his report.
The Democrat candidates for Commander-in-Chief, with the exception of Biden, did not distance themselves from the ad demonstrating that they are more concerned about the political aims Moveon.org then in defending for the integrity of the troops they seek to lead.
We are all free to judge and comment on the General based on his perfomance and his statements. It is instructive that his report itself has not been criticized as he has been personally. In fact there has been very little cpmment on the report.
This is clearly an act of partisanship and the politicalization of the American military is a mistake that sacrifices statesmanship.
Branding any General a liar and a traitor to impugn his character and discredit his message is foolish and short-sighted.
Posted by James Jones on October 9, 2007 10:15 AMMr. Hazzard:
Get over it. If you don't like what Moveon.org writes do what I do when Rush Limpwaud speaks or when the swift boat republicans slandered a fellow war vet. I don't read or listen to them. Just keep beleiving what that war hero in the white house tells you.
Mr Jones, I would carry that a bit farther and say that NO soldier should be slandered as the swiftboat GOP stooges did against Kerry, or the Republican attacks on Murtha ( and Mccain), and Limbaugh's attacks on 'phoney soldierS' ( yes, that is plural despite his attempt to lie his way out) and Limbaughs more recent insults against the wounded vets who speak out against the War and against Limbaugh. Hopefully you are not only concerned about the reputation of generals?
Posted by GruntVet on October 9, 2007 11:18 AMGruntVet
My concerns go beyond generals to the enlisted and beyond the enlisted to every citizen. No one should be slandered. But that generalization distracts from the issue at hand.
Comparing the Moveon.org ad to the Swfit Boater's campaign is not an accurate analogy. The Swift Boaters went after Kerry for his comments long before Kerry ran for any office. Moveon.org went after Petraeus because he serves under Bush.
In the Swift Boater's view Kerry slandered the troops in Viet Nam and they have been demanding an apolgy and retraction 30 years age. They're still waiting for a respnse.
It is not reasonable to expect that they would fall silent when Kerry decided to run for Commander-in-Chief. You may disagree with their stand but you cannot fairly describe them as GOP stooges.
You analogy between Moveon.org and the Swift Boaters doesn't hold up. But even if it did, the Moveon.org actions should be judged based on the merits of the individual actions.
If what they did was wrong, and I think it was, then you should say so irrespective of whatever wrongs you think someone else may have done.
Posted by James Jones on October 9, 2007 11:44 AMJames Jones
I will agree that the MoveOn.org ad. was as wrong as the the swiftboat attacks on Kerry, the GOP atttacks on Murthra & McCain and Rush Limbaughs remarks against our soldiers and wounded vets. Attacks agaisnt the general were wrong. The attacks against Kerry, Murtha and Limbaughs remarkl are equally as wrong.
GruntVet:
I'm afraid you fell into JJ's trap where he gets you to condemn all wrongdoing while he only condemns the wrongdoing by those with which he is not ideologically affiliated. Witness the pains he takes to excuse the Swift-Boat nonsense while demanding you take the high road and condemn all those who have spoken ill of our troops. (By the way, I think it's perfectly ok to criticize the troops and their leaders, as long as there is evidence to support the criticism).
That's the way he operates, and it's instructive in that the entire propaganda arm of the Republican Party acts that way. Quite transparent when you know what to look for...
Posted by Charles B. on October 9, 2007 01:21 PMGruntVet,
By the name you have selected I presume you served as an infantry soldier at some time. I find it hard to believe that a former member of the military would defend John Murtha. Furthermore, it’s intellectually dishonest to turn things around and claim that the GOP has attacked Murtha when all they have done is criticize him for remarks he made about Marines serving in Iraq.
Oh, that's right: Democrats may criticize conservatives for things they say but Republicans are not allowed to criticize liberals for things they say.
Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., said that a group of U.S. Marines had killed 24 Iraqi civilians “in cold blood” in Haditha, Iraq after an IED explosion. Murtha called those Marines “murderers” without have seen any evidence about the situation. All he knew was that they were serving in a war he disagrees with, so therefore he must paint as ugly a picture of it as possible.
Many months ago the Marines in question were found not guilty of murdering those civilians and Murtha has yet to issue any form of an apology toward them.
You made mention of “Rush Limbaughs remarks against our soldiers and wounded vets.” Would you care to elaborate about those comments? Have you taken Limbaugh’s words out of context, too? People would not even know what Limbaugh had said had it not been for Democrats in the Senate changing the context and meaning of what he was talking about.
It’s funny that those who are being derogatory toward the original letter written by Mike Hazzard are making his point loud and clear. You are continually saying, “Yeah, but look how bad so-and-so is!” He brings up the fact that when someone mentions how wrong it was for MoveOn.org and the New York Times to run their ad, liberals instinctively will say, “Yeah, but look what a jerk Rush Limbaugh is and how he calls all soldiers against the war “phony soldiers!!” As soon as liberals get on this site to post their comments they do just what Mike Hazzard said they do. It’s pretty child-like. And it’s predictable.
GruntVet,
I am making a different point. If Gen Petraeus resigns his commission and runs for office, then Moveon.org can say whatever they please about him and I will not question the attack.
Generals are different from politicians.
Politicians routinely go after each other with all sorts of mud slinging. You and I may not approve (in fact we don't) but those are the rules and so be it. We will make our own judgments accordingly.
Generals or military troops on the other hand, should be treated differently. The military serves us all in the same manner irrespective of the party in control of the White House. When a General is ordered to appear before Congress and report on the condtions (in Iraq or anywhere) then the presumption of integrity should be extended.
Once the report is delivered, then we will render our own opinion. But that's not what happened in this case.
That's what makes this different from the other cases you mentioned.
An instructive lesson in selective outrage as demonstrated by that James "Drama" Jones:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/09/29/hunt/index.html
Posted by Charles B. on October 9, 2007 08:01 PM"More and more troops and veterans of Iraq believe George Bush's military policy has been a disaster. I am one of them. Rush Limbaugh called vets like me "phony soldiers" for telling the truth about Iraq. Rush, the shrapnel I took to my head was real. My traumatic brain injury was real. And, my belief that we are on the wrong course in Iraq is real. Until you have the guts to call me a "phony solider" to my face, stop telling lies about my service," says veteran Brian McGough of Washington, D.C.
Posted by McGough on October 10, 2007 07:02 AM2:06 PM states " It’s funny that those who are being derogatory toward the original letter written by Mike Hazzard are making his point loud and clear. You are continually saying, “Yeah, but look how bad so-and-so is!” He brings up the fact that when someone mentions how wrong it was for MoveOn.org and the New York Times to run their ad, liberals instinctively will say, “Yeah, but look what a jerk Rush Limbaugh is and how he calls all soldiers against the war “phony soldiers!!” As soon as liberals get on this site to post their comments they do just what Mike Hazzard said they do. It’s pretty child-like. And it’s predictable. "
But that is the argument we get for every criticism of Bush and the need to impeach Bush... your replies are always " b-b-b-but Clinton did..."
Posted by TypicalCowFlop on October 10, 2007 07:55 AMTypicalCowFlop
You should not be discouraged in your efforts to have President Bush impeached. You, and all your Democrat colleagues, should continue to urge your party leaders down the path of justice.
Time is running out - Get moving TypicalCowFlop.
Anon:
"It’s funny that those who are being derogatory toward the original letter written by Mike Hazzard are making his point loud and clear. You are continually saying, “Yeah, but look how bad so-and-so is!”
TypicalCowFlop:
"But that is the argument we get for every criticism of Bush and the need to impeach Bush... your replies are always " b-b-b-but Clinton did..."
Even after Anon points out this faulty defense tactic we are once again graced with a perfect example of "yeah, but look what so and so did."
Priceless!
Posted by KW on October 10, 2007 10:40 AMImagine! Liberals trying to steal our use of hypocrisy! Thats un-amaerican. Being two-faced and hypocritical is a conservative right and cannot be usedd by the Libs!
Posted by Keith on October 11, 2007 03:21 PM