Smoking in apartments
Thanks for your Oct. 5 editorial, “Apartment is still a home.” You are correct that anti-smoking has taken on a tint of zealotry. It has taken on more than a mere tint; it has become full scale zealotry.
There is little doubt that smoking is injurious to the health of smokers, but much doubt as to whether second-hand smoke does any significant injury to non-smokers. Yet, questionable as it is, second-hand smoke is the excuse for legislation making smokers, in effect, second-class citizens. Business owners are forbidden to smoke, or to allow their patrons that privilege, in their own places of business. Smoking is prohibited in government buildings which are paid for in great part by hugely discriminatory taxes on tobacco products.
Intolerance and bigotry are ugly words, but do they not apply directly to the current attitudes and laws regarding smoking? Because anti-smokers are affronted by the odor of tobacco smoke is insufficient reason for draconic anti-smoking laws.
(Personally, I am offended by the odor of coffee. How about banning coffee drinking next?) Many are affronted by the sight of tattoos and body piercing.
Will these be the next targets of our intolerance and bigotry?
It is well to remember that intolerance and bigotry have resulted in untold millions times more deaths than has smoking.
This letter has not been edited.
I'm so happy I don't live next to you. What you think is an 'affront' - simply a preference - is actually pain and physical distress to lots of people - those who are allergic to your poisonous fumes (like me), and those who already suffer with asthma. But you have very little capacity for smell left, because you've managed to kill it with decades of cancer sticks. That's why you think your smoke is such a mild thing - you can hardly smell it.
Posted by Denise on October 18, 2007 03:28 PMHey Denise, I am allergic to perfume. Will you stop wearing perfume or support laws banning perfume? Didn't think so.
Posted by J on October 18, 2007 03:40 PMDenise, it is YOUR responsibility to remove YOURSELF from allergens, not the governments responsibility to remove allergens from you.
Also, although I smoked when I lived in an apartment building in Virginia long, long ago, I had no problem smelling the cooked cabbage, blood sausage, curry, dirty diapers in the dumpster, etc. For some reason, though, I didn't whine about it. Oh, yeah - that reason was maturity.
Also, the smell of FISH really makes me gag - you had better stop cooking it near me or ordering it in restaurants, OR I'M TELLING MOMMY!!
When you own the apartment building you can smoke there.
Posted by Sharon B. on October 18, 2007 05:55 PMNo Sharon B even if you own them you can't shhhh...smoke, ask the business owners. We as smokers pay more taxes so we should have more say, right? So I'll go on and on.... puff puff
Posted by Smoke em if ya got em on October 18, 2007 06:31 PMall of you anti and I hate smokers better start being nice to us. would you like me to tell you why? its for your health care all you socialist want from the government, as they have said it will be paid for by taxes on tobacco products. yep need 22 million new ones to pay for your free insurance.
Posted by on October 18, 2007 07:30 PMGo ahead and tax tobacco some more.The drug cartels are just waiting to expand the selection of things to smuggle in.....It's the American way.Don't take my word for it,look up JFK's dad and handler Joseph P. Kennedy.
Posted by Jimminy on October 18, 2007 09:12 PMAnd Denise,maybe if the antis hadn't rammed the smoking ban down our throats,we might take a little less delight in making you uncomfortable.As it is,too bad,toots.
Posted by Jimminy on October 18, 2007 09:18 PMDenise, I assume from yor empathy and kindness to other people's lungs and noses that you don't drive an automobile.
However, if you do, shut the hell up.
I used to smoke. I'm sorry. I made myself smell bad and goddess help the poor soul who found him/herself too close to me while I was indulging. I made them stink, too. Most of the time, they CHOSE to be in close proximity. Other times... well, no, not really. Long story and you wouldn't understand if you don't already. Anyway... point is: If you smoke, you stink. The smoke you push out of your lungs causes your clothes to smell like 10 years of nasty in the garbage dump. People around you will leave stinking. It is a FACT.
What the sweet, but somewhat silly old man doesn't realize, in making his lame argument equating smoke to tattoos, is: YOU CAN CLOSE YOUR EYES TO TATTOOS, YOU CAN SIT CLOSE TO TATTOOS... YOU WON'T GET TATTOOS. But, if you sit close to smokers... you WILL get stinky.
Kisses!!!
Posted by Sheila on October 18, 2007 09:37 PMSheila, your post was disgusting.
If you wear perfume, you are nauseating. If you ride an elevator wearing perfume, you stink up the elevator. Can we ban perfume in public places? And while we are at it, can we ban mint and mint flavored gum in public places? That stinks even worse than musk.
And to carry the issue further, I understand that your ability to smell is not educated, but some pipe and cigar smell very nice. I happen to prefer Turkish tobacco to Cuban flavors, but there are quite an array of inviting tastes there.
I understand that you don't like it. That's fine. But you are stinking up the atmosphere with your own scents. Don't blame an old man because he has own preferences.
As for the danger involved, A child I knew was crippled in a skiing accident. Soccer can cripple. They aren't being banned.
Posted by freethinker on October 18, 2007 10:43 PMFreethinker: What is your problem and in what way was my post 'disgusting'? I think you may have to up your dosage of medication.
And yet, I agree wholeheartedly that perfume is a toxic substance and I would love to see it banned.
KISSES!!!
Posted by Sheila on October 18, 2007 11:04 PMOkay, when you own the building, live there by yourself and pay the taxes, then you can smoke there.
If you rent, no go.
Cigarette smoke, second hand and off the burning end, make children sick. Smoke in apartments creeps to others homes. Go smoke in the parking lot.
Posted by Sharon B. on October 19, 2007 06:23 AM"Okay, when you own the building, live there by yourself and pay the taxes, then you can smoke there.
If you rent, no go."
Unless the owner gives you permission to smoke in the apartment you rent from him. It's his decision, and his only.
Posted by Mike on October 19, 2007 06:39 AMAll of you are idiots,
Buy a house and don't let smokers smoke inside
My, My, MY, so now the smoke control zealots have finally broke through their own lies and deceptional propaganda to tell the real reason for smoking bans: they don't like the smell of tobacco.
They had to do this because the truth about second hand smoke, in spite of their fanantical claims to the contrary, has slowly reached the public they fooled into believing is a health risk based on their junk science studies, payed for by their huge grants from nonsmoke nicotine delivery systems produced by big pharmaceutical companies.
There is, simply put, far, far less health hazards in second hand smoke in normally air vented bars and taverns than there is in these devices that put nicotine more directly into your system.
Tobacco is highly excised taxed, these devices are zero taxed ergo, getting people hooked on them reduces taxes from tobacco, which are a very large source of State and Federal revenue. Who is going to make up for that loss? Why it's the nonsmoking majority, that's who.
OSHA did a seven year study proving this. Tobacco control, the American Cancer Society, ASH among them, tried to sue them challenging their findings were false.
But, they agreed to withdraw those suits after a federal appeals court determined it was the tobacco controls studies that were flawed and the highly questionable methods used in cherry picking information from them to support their contentions. You won't hear them say this, you can see why, yes?
It all comes down to this; Smoking bans were never about health, as stated by tobacco contro zealots, it has always been about the oldest of reasons for zealousness.
Personal preferences based on false propagandized preconcieved ideas, driven by increased private mercantile interest and the power and money behind them are the real reasons behind enacting smoking bans.
Posted by Allen Campbell on October 19, 2007 08:12 AMAlso. the contention that second hand smoke can "creep" into apartments through walls, windows and under doors is ludicrous at best unless, those apartments were constructed by slum lords, ignoring building codes, and using the cheapest materials, incompetent workers and the most hurried constrution time frames.
Posted by Allen Campbell on October 19, 2007 08:36 AMAllen,
I think apt builders do use the cheapest materials, and incompetent workers, and most of the time do not follow building codes to the letter , and hurry construction.
maybe not in all cases, but this does happen. regardless I agree with everything else in your prior posting.
Posted by Fresh on October 19, 2007 08:41 AMOh, Allen:
http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2006pres/20060627.html
I addressed the 'stinky' issue in my post. That does not mean I am not willing to post about the TRUE, FACTUAL dangers of second hand smoke.
Read and learn, friend.
KISSES!!!
Posted by Sheila on October 19, 2007 08:46 AMI don't understand one thing - why should the smokers go outside instead of the non-smokers? If you want "fresh" air, you probably shouldn't be indoors anyway.
Also, as an former armor soldier, I love the smell of diesel exhaust in the morning; it smells like...victory.
Shelia, you never let us know if you drive an automobile and pollute our air. Since you are still preaching, I guess you do not. How could you in good conscience? I admire your dedication to my lungs and our planet.
Posted by Light Up on October 19, 2007 09:26 AMPoor persecuted smokers..my heart bleeds for you! Get over it -you're a dying breed-literally.
Posted by asterix on October 19, 2007 09:33 AMSheila,
If you want to know the truth, don't cite the claims of tobacco control that are the zealots propaganda hand book. Research OSHA's study. They are the federal statutory regulatory agency charged with insuring the workplace and workers safety. It was a seven year study, reviewed many times for accuracy. Ask youself this: would you believe payed for, on demand studies funded by pro smoking ban factions over the objective study done by the preemptive federal statutory regulating agency? If you do, your delusional.
Posted by Allen Campbell on October 19, 2007 09:45 AMI went to your site in your comment. Low and behold it was the sugeon generals report. What you don't know that report was nothing more than a re-reporting of the FDA 1990's report which was found to be based on false evidence in federal court. The surgeon general di not do a seperate study of any kind, just reported the same old study that has been debunked as junk science. Open you eyes girl and quit relying on what you want to believe, look for the objective truth.
Posted by Allen Campbell on October 19, 2007 09:55 AMWhy is it that homosexuals are so special when they say stay out of their homes, but it is ok to dictate what goes on inside of the homes of smokers?
Posted by on October 19, 2007 11:31 AMY'know, we have completly sidestepped the issue of condominiums.
Posted by Mac on October 19, 2007 11:41 AMWhat addictions other than tobacco addiction are permitted in public?
The anger in the posts from the tobacco addicts reveals their desperation.
Addiction is truly a sad thing.
Posted by Constance on October 19, 2007 12:47 PMConstance,
Addictions that are allowed in public include overeating and alcohol consumption. How about chocolate, coffee, soda (pop). I don't think a weakness is tantamount to an addiction. I know a guy who smokes one cigarette a day after dinner. He's no addict. Actually, I think blaming behaviors on addiction can be an addiction (weakness).
Posted by Stan B on October 19, 2007 02:42 PMThe owner of the apartment house can set the standards.
No smoke in his carpets, curtains, walls etc. It is his property.
Want to smoke indoors? Own the building then you can and you all know that.
Rent, one night or a year and it is your home, but not your property.
No matter how you beat this drum, we are not dancing to your tune.
Posted by Sharon B. on October 19, 2007 03:11 PM11:31, I don't know about you, but homosexuals has never told me to stay out of their homes; some, in fact, have invited me in most kindly. How badly do you want to get into one?
Posted by Hans Christian Brando on October 19, 2007 03:22 PM"What addictions other than tobacco addiction are permitted in public"
CELL PHONES
Posted by Mac on October 19, 2007 04:18 PMCell phones and-----,
Idiot drivers who don't know what turn signals are for, ultra loud, teeth jarring, window rattling, car stereos. Nose irritating, nauseating perfume, which makes me throw up. They should be banned in elevators and bars and taverns.
Diesel fumes from trucks, which is more of a danger than tobacco smoke and, more abundant, Pharmaceutical companies who put Drugs on the market without FDA testing or approval which kills more people than ever were killed by second hand smoke, which is zero.
Lead paint in toys from China, people who have B.O.,Politicians who lie, the constant recall of foods that are tainted with dangerous bacteria, prenatal drugs that cause miscarriages, the questionable fact that there is no cure for some cancers and there are for others.
Doctors that maltreat patients, mobs, greedy, incompetent lawyers who graduate to become the politicians cited above, Ok enough.
But the list is growing day to day and your worried about being involuntary exposed to second hand smoke because your too stupid to not go where it exists?
Posted by Allen Campbell on October 20, 2007 06:39 AMCancer Treatments Banned
by U.S. Government
Baltimore, MD — As unbelievable as it seems, the key to stopping many cancers has been around for over 30 years. Yet it has been banned. Blocked. And kept out of your medicine cabinet by the very agency designed to protect your health—the FDA.
In 1966, the senior oncologist at a prominent New York hospital rocked the medical world when he developed a serum that "shrank cancer tumors in 45 minutes!" Headlines hit every major paper around the world. Scientists and researchers applauded. Time and again this life saving treatment worked miracles, but the FDA ignored the research and shut him down.
You read that right! That was over 39 years ago. How many other treatments have they been allowed to hide?
Can't believe it, well it's true. Just thought I would include this to justify by claims in the previous email
Allen: A simple question: Do you smoke?
Posted by Sheila on October 20, 2007 11:52 AMAllen Campbell,
Ah - the usual misinformed, vitriolic comments from Allen Campbell.
Allen, since you apparently do not, or can not, understand the reading of medical reports, you might want to try instead reading Mark Twain, who said:
"It's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt".
Posted by traveler on October 20, 2007 12:11 PMAllen, doctors and other scientists have children who get cancer, do you really believe they, with all their power, would not let these 'Miracle Cures" get out.?
Wise up man, that is an old story . Cancers come from injuries, virus we know know, and genetics, they are not all the same to begin with.
Try to quit smoking with the patch or gum and see in a year from now if you want to defend smokers rights, outside their cars, or wholly owned and not public property.
Posted by Sharon B. on October 20, 2007 02:13 PM"...Try to quit smoking with the patch or gum and see in a year from now if you want to defend smokers rights, outside their cars, or wholly owned and not public property."
The point of America, and the BoR, is to defend EVERYONE'S rights, whether you like them or not. And I wholeheartedly defend your right to move away from whatever stinky things may be bothering you.
Mac, I should have said stop smoking for a year and then see if you still want to defend the smokers who think they have the right to have lit cigarettes and second hand smoke in your breathing space.
Better?
Posted by Sharon B. on October 21, 2007 02:08 PMBetter
Posted by Mac on October 21, 2007 04:15 PM