Democratic debates
After watching the current Democratic debates, the candidates make me very insure about America’s future. As a life long Democrat, I see no one that I could support. The front runner can’t answer a direct question, another thinks the war on terrorism is “just a bumper sticker", and another candidate, who stresses hope, says he would sit down and talk with terrorists. Even one of the non-contenders has seen a UFO. I often hear Israel discussed and never in the same breath with suicide bombers and Islamic Fascism.Yes, I do mean Fascism. Those who would argue that this is not the correct historical analogy are challenged to find one single relevant place where the anaolgy fails.
What the Democrats need, if they intend to win the next election, is not a President like Jose Zapatero of Spain, who withdrew troops from Iraq after al Quaeda bombed four commuter trains in Madrid, killing nearly 200 citizens and injuring l,600 more. They need a candidate speaking thus: “ Never give in, never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense. Never yeild to force; never yeild to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy". This of course was Churchill, and it is he ,not Chamberlain, whom history has vindicated.
Why can’t they see the burning bush? The threats, much like Hitler’s “Mein Kampf” are available in Osama bin Laden’s multiple fatwas.
Maybe, Chantal Desol, a French philosopher makes sense: “They cannot imagine fighting for a cause because they no longer believe a cause may be worth a fight". I Hope he is incorrect!!
This letter has not been edited.
I find myself thinking the same about the leading republican candidates: one a bad actor, another a Morman ( how many wives = Family values?) another has had multiple marriages. Rudy is tunning on the 9/11 platform, whatever the question is asked, he responds with 9/11. All 9of them change their answers depending opn the audience. Supporting gays, gun and god one day...opposing them the next.
Time for America to dump both parties and start looking for leaders not policians.
Edwards is the best candidate
Posted by Pure and Simple on November 8, 2007 03:04 PMwow a true progressive left liberal whining about a Morman. he must be so old he forgot the same beign said against JFK
it was so refreshing to see Mrs bill clinton dance around the questions and that she could not even give an answer and now her hubby is out defending her inability to lie on her feet like he can.
the dumowingnuts will only say what they think someone wants to hear and have no idea of what they are standing for as they wont say it.
Posted by on November 8, 2007 03:12 PMwow a true progressive left liberal whining about a Morman. he must be so old he forgot the same beign said against JFK
it was so refreshing to see Mrs bill clinton dance around the questions and that she could not even give an answer and now her hubby is out defending her inability to lie on her feet like he can.
the dumowingnuts will only say what they think someone wants to hear and have no idea of what they are standing for as they wont say it.
Posted by on November 8, 2007 03:12 PMThe only thing scarier than the Democratic debates are the lack of any Republican debates.
Republicans seem completely lost right now. They'd better get their act together if they want any chance at keeping the presidency.
In other words, it's time to worry about your own party, before you start griping about the competition.
Republicans had more than six years of unopposed, absolute power to do what they wanted. Look where it got us.
Now THAT's SCARY!
Posted by Pragmatist on November 8, 2007 03:42 PMWell, George Sr, when you conflate Iraq & the "war on Terror" and you start throwing meaningless phrases around like "Islamic fascism," and comparing this debacle to World War II, it's clear that your level of confusion qualifies you to be a Republican. So cheerio, then - please enjoy the intellectual company of Keith, Uno & Un-American
Posted by drew on November 8, 2007 04:15 PMPragmatist
"Look where it got us"
The rest of us are glad Gore or Kerry didn't become president. Terrorist attacks 9/11 would be happening over and over. The Democrats would be appeasing Osama Bin Laden and their other terrorist friends. The debates the Democrats are having is telling the truth about each other how unqualified they really are to be president. Especially Hillary the "Socialist" Clinton. I have to laugh when Obama and Edwards leave her with her mouth open and denying all the things she did as a senator including voting to go to war. Soon they'll be bringing up the Slick Willie years in office.
Rudy Giuliani should be running as a Democrat because he's just as immoral and a typical New York City liberal at heart but he will be your next president Mr. Pragmatist.
Posted by on November 8, 2007 04:27 PM9/11 attacks over and over?
The Bush administration was in charge when 9/11 happened, they were the administration asleep at the wheel when we were attacked. I love the speculation that more would have happened if a Democrat was president. Well, it is all speculation but we do know the facts and those are that Bush was President and didn't stop the worst terrorist attack on US soil in the history of the US. So it appears to me the Republicans have a much worse track record against terrorism.
While I'm a conservative, I believe that a strong democratic party is in the best interests of America - good competition in the arena of ideas is good for everyone. I've often been able to find something to like, no matter how small, in just about every candidate, but these people just plain stink. Between the pandering to left-wing surrender monkeys and dancing around questions like Barishnakov, this crop of democratic candidates is truly lousy: Clinton couldn't lead a girl scout troop and could make Hitler cry. Obama has less experience than most interns after their second day. Edwards is in danger of becoming a new sub-species created by too much hairspray. The rest of the pack fall in somewhere to the left of Stalin and to the right of Alpha Centauri.
Posted by Neal5x5 on November 8, 2007 04:51 PMThe debate was a fine example of political mudslinging, only it had a late campaign aroma to it. Wait till the Republican debates warm up. This will be an amusing race.
Posted by Stan B on November 8, 2007 04:52 PM"Soon they'll be bringing up the Slick Willie years in office."
Yeah, all that peace and prosperity sucked! Speaking of which, give me a blowjob scandal anyday (not literally) over the scandal of B.S.'ing the country into a botched war.
I'm no worshipper of Bill Clinton's, or Hilary's, but I just find it funny when someone who's obviously a Bush apologist tried to argue that we're more fortunate he got in because - should a Democrat have won - (insert doomsday scenario here).
I've heard all sorts of theories about how if it weren't for our fearless leader we would have 9-11-style attacks every week, blah, blah, blah. At least 4:27 didn't resort to that tack ... oh, wait ...
Neal5x5,
Do you think the Republicans are any better? Talk about a sorry group, three of them don't believe in Evolution. Most of them have been divorced at least three times. A bad actor and a cross dresser. Now that is a great line up.
I'm with you Pure and Simple.
Posted by That makes 2 on November 8, 2007 05:04 PMLet's recap the republican track record over the last 7 years.
Less safe
Less secure financially
Quagmire in Iraq
Decimated military
AQ back to 9/10 strength levels
Afghanistan back in control of the Taliban and funding global terrorism with record opium crops
Gee.....I don't know why we wouldn't want more of the same.
Posted by jay on November 8, 2007 05:34 PMGeorge,Thank God,you have seen the light.
Posted by Keith on November 8, 2007 05:45 PMI don't believe for one second that George is a democrat. Is this a new Republican shell game?
George, the swing voters are moving to the democratic party not the other way around. Keep up!
Posted by leftside on November 8, 2007 06:10 PMleftside,First of all the the ignorant voters move to the democrap side..Second,George spent the time to check out the facts and was educated enough to comprehend the facts to make an educated evaluation.Leftside,with your I.Q. hovering around the 70 range no wonder you can't comprehend.
Posted by Keith on November 8, 2007 07:24 PMKeith, just so you understand how the country is reacting to the Republican list of "accomplishments" over the last 7 years....here is a list of the issues that the public overwhelmingly favors the Dems over the Rubs in regards to who should be in charge:
Dealing with global warming
Dealing with health care
Dealing with gas prices
Improving America's standing in the world
Reducing the federal deficit
Dealing with energy policy
Dealing with education
Dealing with homeownership issues
Controlling government spending
Dealing with the economy
Dealing with Iraq
Dealing with immigration
Dealing with ethics in government
Dealing with taxes
Dealing with China
Protecting America's interests on trade issues
Dealing with the war on terrorism
NBC News/Wall Street Journal Poll
N=1,005 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3.1
Here is the latest polling...also not good news for the party that has made incompetence its most defining characteristic as of late:
NBC News/Wall Street Journal Poll conducted by the polling organizations of Peter Hart (D) and Bill McInturff (R). Nov. 1-5, 2007. N=1,509 adults nationwide. MoE ± 2.5 (for all adults). RV = registered voters
"Putting aside for a moment the question of who each party's nominee might be, what is your preference for the outcome of the 2008 presidential election -- that a Democrat be elected president or that a Republican be elected president?"
Democrat 50%
Republican 35%
Other 3%
Unsure 12%
As you can see...much of the swing vote is already spoken for...
Posted by jay on November 8, 2007 07:45 PMjay, your little list is B.S. Why not just blame repubs for any and all that is wrong or bad in the entire world throughout all of history? And your poll is meaningless until you post a link showing there is not an over sampling of Dems. It seems all the polls you site have a tendency to do this. You have no credibility left and people are laughing at you.Go back to dailykos where you belong you mook cruton.
Posted by on November 8, 2007 09:29 PMjay,what is your point,Bush has been right the idiot liberals have been wrong.You put up a list,Bush was right on all.Where is your facts,dumb-ass.Not liberal lies.
Posted by Keith on November 8, 2007 10:45 PMjay,what is your point,Bush has been right the idiot liberals have been wrong.You put up a list,Bush was right on all.Where is your facts,dumb-ass.Not liberal lies.
Posted by Keith on November 8, 2007 10:45 PMjay,what is your point,Bush has been right the idiot liberals have been wrong.You put up a list,Bush was right on all.Where is your facts,dumb-ass.Not liberal lies.
Posted by Keith on November 8, 2007 10:45 PMjay,what is your point,Bush has been right the idiot liberals have been wrong.You put up a list,Bush was right on all.Where is your facts,dumb-ass.Not liberal lies.
Posted by Keith on November 8, 2007 10:46 PMjay,what is your point,Bush has been right the idiot liberals have been wrong.You put up a list,Bush was right on all.Where is your facts,dumb-ass.Not liberal lies.
Posted by Keith on November 8, 2007 10:46 PMjay,what is your point,Bush has been right the idiot liberals have been wrong.You put up a list,Bush was right on all.Where is your facts,dumb-ass.Not liberal lies.
Posted by Keith on November 8, 2007 10:46 PMI think the electrode going from Keith's skull to to the TV blaring the Fox "Noise" Channel just shorted out and his shaking finger hit the post button 6 times.
Posted by Keith and Hank sittin' in a tree, K-I-S-S-I-N-G on November 8, 2007 10:55 PMit is so nice to see the intellictual debate here between the lefts minions and others. all the love and name calling is so fun to see.
and the best part is that Fox news scares the xhit out of you. wow a small speck compared to abc cbs nbc msnbc cnn and all of you progressives have a worm and your 'leaders' wont debate on it as they would ask questions not on their list. have to admit at least the Republicans have not turned down a debate on msnbc.
Jay,
You can spout the same tired poll data - but it is the true people in this country that decide at the ballot box - not the minority of those who love to get pollster calls every two weeks. I suppose you are on their list aren't you?
1500 voters out a possible 180 million, those are really accurate. It is clear also that you pull the questions that have favored the Democratic party so what does that say about you? Also the NBC/WSJ poll you cut and paste, had 15 questions - not 1.
Funny to see all the nitwits out challenging the poll methodology based on....wishful thinking??
I guess they have "The Math" ala Karl "The Traitor" Rove.
Posted by Charles B on November 9, 2007 07:29 AMHILLARY IS UNELECTABLE!!!
All the recent polls are showing that the MAJORITY of men will not vote for her. And history proves that you can't win a national election if us men won't vote for you. And when push comes to shove, how many real women are going to support a woman who stuck with a serial philanderer?
Hillary is being peeled like an onion in front of America and we are quickly finding out that there is absolutely nothing of substance under that pants suit. She doesn't dare tell America what she really believes or stands for because that too is unelectable.
Rudy kicks her sorry ass one year from now.
Posted by Hank on November 9, 2007 07:55 AMhonestly, the Hildabeast has shown one thing... that any man can fool her into believing anything they want. If she believed bill that he wasn't whoring around with anything in a skirt... George Bush convinced her that voting for the war was a good thing... She will fall for anything apparently.
What's next Vladimer Putin convincing her that Socialism works? oh, too late....
Posted by Dravur on November 9, 2007 08:21 AMnoun, verb, 9/11..noun, verb, 9/11..any questions?
Posted by Rudy Giuliani on November 9, 2007 09:55 AMKeith, calm down, take a breath, remove the tinfoil hat and try to tell us what you think W was "right" about...in fact just tell us what you think his 3 biggest accompishments were and what his 3 biggest mistakes were.
Breathe man...
7:17...there's an Intro to Stats class starting this spring at Metro....if you have that much trouble understanding the validity of scientific polling, I suggest that you enroll...if not for us...for your own credibility's sake.
Hank...what policy stances of Hillary's do you disagree? I'm not concerned with the latest swift boat stuff about her being a bitch or the ice queen or whateva...surely you're too smart to sink that level, no?
Posted by jay on November 9, 2007 09:58 AMKeith is either an idiot or a comedic genius.
Posted by R.T. on November 9, 2007 11:43 AMJay,
what policy stances of Hillary's do you disagree? I'm not concerned with the latest swift boat stuff about her being a bitch or the ice queen or whateva...surely you're too smart to sink that level, no?
As soon as Hillary defines where she stands on the issues and actually informs the country, then you might get some kind of response.
War in Iraq Bring the troops home or leave them there? How to find the terrorist, besides sitting down and talking with them?
Give drivers license to the illegals, good idea or not?
Amnesty for the illegals good idea or not?
Raise taxes, keep them level or lower taxes?
Are people making $100,000 a year rich or poor?
Globalization Good or bad?
I can't think of one issue with the exception of socialized healthcare that she has ever clearly stated how she stands.
Posted by jgd777 on November 9, 2007 12:00 PMI find it funny to see Keith & the wingnut choir denigrating the Democratic candidates.
After the "leadership" we've had these past 7 years - that has led us to unending war, an economy going down the tubes & rampant sleaze & corruption, I'm sure that Bozo the Clown would be a huge improvement on the language mangling moron that currently occupies the White House.
Posted by drew on November 9, 2007 12:14 PMThe comments on this thread are very telling. Most of the democratic-leaning responses are not advocating for a particular democratic candidate or refuting the allegations of poor fit for office in republican-leaning responses (mine included). Instead, most are screaming about how bad the republicans are, how things were better under Clinton, how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, etc. However, their inability to support their own candidates strongly suggests that they known they cannot successfully argue with the republican-leaning assertions, IE the democratic candidates are all landfill-bait. Saying "your guys stink too" only endorses the initial assertion that their candidates stink to start with and isn't a way to win.
Posted by Neal5x5 on November 9, 2007 12:19 PMDrew,
While having Bozo the clown govern is indeed frightening, having the Democrat in charge is far more frightening. At least with Bozo we would get a laugh once in a while.
Posted by jgd777 on November 9, 2007 12:19 PMdrew or should I say Rosemary's baby sure uses a lot of five dollar colorful words. "Mangling moron"! Can you imagine twisted liberal freaks like drew in the White house.
That's called Nightmare at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
Neal5x5:
You complained:
Most of the democratic-leaning responses are not advocating for a particular democratic candidate or refuting the allegations of poor fit for office in republican-leaning responses (mine included).
And what was the substance of your remarks that required such refutation?
"...these people just plain stink. Between the pandering to left-wing surrender monkeys and dancing around questions like Barishnakov, this crop of democratic candidates is truly lousy: Clinton couldn't lead a girl scout troop and could make Hitler cry. Obama has less experience than most interns after their second day. Edwards is in danger of becoming a new sub-species created by too much hairspray. The rest of the pack fall in somewhere to the left of Stalin and to the right of Alpha Centauri.
Ahhh yes, serious comments such as these require careful, considered refutations indeed...
...idiot.
Posted by Charles B on November 9, 2007 01:48 PMCharles B
Do you become Sharon B when your in drag?
We're all starting to wonder. Maybe she's your dead mother and you take on her persona like Tony Perkins did in Psycho. Either way you're loser Democratic canidates do not have any new ideas to improve America except the same old tired left wing socialist ideas.
jdg...educate yourself on the candidates' policy stances...visit their websites...then make your decisions based on whether or not those stances benefit you. I find that too many far right wingers vote against their own best interests.
good luck with that.
Posted by jay on November 9, 2007 02:05 PMFace it - there isn't one GOOD candidate on either side of the aisle, as I see it.
What seems funny to me is that the Dem candidates seem to be running against Bush and if I recall, he can no longer run for president (which is a good thing).
While the GOP candidates at least try to say, in their own bungling way where they stand on issues, the Dems are busy eating their own front runner who refuses to let people know where she stands on much of anything. She knows that a person can't win a general election from the fringes so she must convince us that she is a centrist. Most people paying attention suspect that it isn't true but she dances so much and so fast that it can't be confirmed. The Dems that trail her are now doing the work for the GOP, exposing her doublespeak.
It doesn't seem to matter. Out of the weak crop from the GOP, I suspect we'll end up with a Dem anyway - Rudy.
A sad state of affairs, indeed. Once again we'll get a choice between tweedle dum and tweedle dee.
Posted by RU Serious on November 9, 2007 02:10 PMLibertarians are looking better every day!
The D's are swimming in the sewer and the R's have joined them! Let's open the flush valve and get rid of them all!
Judging by the comments in this section we might as well open the flush valve on ourselves!
Get over yourselves people! Maybe then we can start doing things more productive!
Posted by Feed-Up with Govt on November 9, 2007 02:11 PMJay,
Websites say all the things the Candidate wants the public to believe. However when confronted with actual questions, the truth comes out.
Can you answer me if Hillary is for or against offering illegal immigrates driver license? You can not answer that question honestly because she clearly stated she is for them and against them.
Is Hillary for bringing our troops home? She keeps saying yes, but if she was elected she could not say they would be all home before her term ended.
I will vote a candidate who will tell me what they are for and what they are against. Anyone who votes for a candidate and can't explain their political positions is nuts.
Posted by jgd777 on November 9, 2007 02:51 PM"Can you answer me if Hillary is for or against offering illegal immigrates driver license? You can not answer that question honestly because she clearly stated she is for them and against them."
I'd be happy to comment if you'd post a link illustrating such.
"Is Hillary for bringing our troops home? She keeps saying yes, but if she was elected she could not say they would be all home before her term ended. "
Hillary is on record saying that withdrawal should start as soon as possible...but she also acknowledges that troops will have to be in Iraq for up to decades to try to fix the Republican quagmire...I can't imagine that you disagree with her.
Doesn't seem like you have much to stand on in regards for your hate for Hillary.
jdg777 stated:
I will vote (for) a candidate who will tell me what they are for and what they are against.
Good luck finding one.
Posted by Stan B on November 9, 2007 03:31 PMStan B
That is why i voted for Mickey Mouse last election and intend on doing it again this year.
Posted by jgd777 on November 9, 2007 04:00 PMJay,
Can you answer me if Hillary is for or against offering illegal immigrates driver license? You can not answer that question honestly because she clearly stated she is for them and against them."
"I'd be happy to comment if you'd post a link illustrating such".
I would think as a good lock step liberal you would have heard her say just that during the last Democrat debate. Oh I forgot it isn't stated on her website, along with her raising taxes, socialized health care (actually that one might be there) or her desire for amnesty for the illegals.
As far as the War in Iraq goes, if you do not intend on keeping a sufficient amount of soldiers in Iraq then they ALL need to come home. How does she intend on getting us out of this "quagmire" (your word, not mine) with less military?.
Posted by jgd777 on November 9, 2007 04:13 PMNo link...no point.
As far as Iraq goes...we don't have a sufficient amount of troops on the ground NOW to do the job...so let's let them redeploy home or to positions of secure SUPPORT in country.
That should be a no brainer.
Posted by jay on November 9, 2007 04:38 PMCharles B,
You still didn't say why any particular democratic candidate is better than another or even deserves the office. Can you even attempt to without resorting to "Bush stinks?" My joke that John Edwards is in danger of becoming a new subspecies has more solidity behind it than Hillary Clinton's wishywashy stance on driver's licenses for illegal aliens - at least I made a statement and stick with it.
Jay,
Typical liberal, won't listen to the debates and then denies what is being said at the debates by the candidates they back, They say "ignorance is bliss" for a liberal is not only bliss it is a way of life.
"Hillary is on record saying that withdrawal should start as soon as possible..." So is Bush however the key word in that statement is "possible"
It must really spoil your day when you hear about the Iraqis moving back into Baghdad. or the Sunni tribal leaders turning against Al Quaeda. Does the good news starting to come out of Iraq frighten you libs? What platform will you have for "08" if things start going well?
Unlike the liberals our military doesn't consider hiding in the closet as SUPPORT.
"Redeploy home", the new phrase for "cut and run", very inventive.
Neal5x5 misunderstood my point:
"You still didn't say why any particular democratic candidate is better than another or even deserves the office."
I never said that I am a Democrat or that I have a preferred candidate from any particular party. My point was that you personally don't practice what you preach. Or did I miss your reasoned appeal for the candidate of your choice? Your entire contribution to the thread has been to say Democratic candidates a,b,c,d and e all "stink", and then to wring your hankie and clutch your pearls complaining that posters who support Democrats don't advocate for their choice so much as tear Bush down.
"Can you even attempt to without resorting to "Bush stinks?"
I haven't chosen a candidate to support yet, so I'm not going to advocate for one except to say that there are one or two legitimate choices on either side of the aisle. If I'm not pleased with a major party candidate in the general election I will vote for a minor party candidate in protest. I do not vote "lesser of two evils".
And that Bush stinks is so obvious that mentioning it is a redundancy.
Posted by Charles B on November 9, 2007 06:07 PMCharles B, “except to say that there are one or two legitimate choices on either side of the aisle”, so who are they?
Posted by Uno on November 9, 2007 06:24 PMCharles? Nothing…..
(Crickets….in the distance Charles barking…)
wow....so jdg...now that we've debunked the hillary flipflopping myth...you just move on to the next ones.
"Does the good news starting to come out of Iraq frighten you libs? "
What about 2007 being the bloodiest year of the war to date did you not understand?
Oh...and no one is using "cut and run" anymore except for Rush and his footsoldiers....you're not a blindly partisan far right wing footsoldier by any chance are you jdg?
Posted by jay on November 9, 2007 07:59 PMJay,
Millions of people heard exactly what Hillary said on national TV. It was replayed on numerous other stations the next day. However in Jay's world if there isn't a link to it then it never happened. And you expect people to take you serious? If you saw the debate you also know what Hillary said, if you didn't watch the debate then how the hell can you be making statements about what she stands for and whats she is against.
If you look at the number of fatalities in Iraq, you will find most of them occurred in the early part of the year. most of the deaths took place when the, terrorist backing, libs where threating to pull the funds for our troops. Since the full surge was started the death toll is down over 50%. I understand any good news coming from Iraq is frightening to you libs, but those are the facts.
Cut and Run is exactly what you want our military to do, you can come up with all of the catch words you want, it is still cut and run.
Posted by jgd777 on November 9, 2007 11:04 PMjay:
"Hillary is on record saying that withdrawal should start as soon as possible...but she also acknowledges that troops will have to be in Iraq for up to decades to try to fix the Republican quagmire"
How is that position different from Bush? Also, Hillary voted for the war so it's just as much her quagmire as anyone else's.
Posted by on November 9, 2007 11:05 PMJay,
Hillary's flip flop is on Youtube, you can hear it for yourself
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B0uHybfmmY
Posted by jgd777 on November 9, 2007 11:26 PMjgd, I listened to and didnot hear her say she supported it but understood why the gov. was doing it. Chris Dodd said she said she supported it. I agree with her this is "gotcha politics".
I am happy that the other demcrats are going after her though. It will serve to prepare for scum like Limbaugh, Rosen, Coulter and other lieing groups like the Swifterboaters when she wins the democratic nomination.
leftside
"Gotcha politics" Free thinking people call that showing your true colors and then wanting to deny it. I will state again, no one actually knows where she stands on most issues. Oh you can read her website but when you listen to her talk, she talks out of both sides of her mouth.
"Gotcha politics" is the defense politicians are using so they don't have to clearly state their position on any issue.
Why doesn't she just clearly state what she wants to do and let the chips fall where they may? And I mean that for every politician.
Posted by jgd777 on November 10, 2007 08:37 AMjgd, Why doesn't any politician do that? Have you ever heard any politician talk straight?
The reason is that positions change all the time.
Saying something is a good idea or you understand why, is a long way from signing on the dotted line in support of it. Yet people make that transformation in way's to discredit politician they don't like, Thus, and correctly so, "gotcha politics".
Leftside,
If the politicians don't like the idea of "Gotcha politics" than they should say what they mean and mean what they say.
"Gotcha politics" is nothing more than getting caught "speaking with a forked tongue"
I personally like it because it shows me the true character of a person.
jgd, Hilary did say what she mean't. In not so many words she said she understood why the govenor was doing it, she felt it was a good idea but that its the feds job to contol the boarders better and that they need to do a better job. Show don't blame the gov.
That"s when Dodd took the leap to insinuate (I was wrong in a previous post when I said he said she supported the measure) that she supported it.
I'll let you make up the phrase. What do you want to call? It certainly show's poor character on Dodds part to jump to that conclusion. Do we just let him off the hook?
Posted by leftside on November 10, 2007 10:12 AMjay:
"now that we've debunked the hillary flipflopping myth..."
How did you "debunk" this fact jay? Did you cover your ears and scream la la la la until Hillary finally quit talking?
Next you'll be telling us you haven't made up your mind as to who you'll be voting for, won't you?
Posted by KW on November 10, 2007 10:22 AM"By saying you understand why someone is giving illegals drivers license is approving of that act."
If the Governor wants to get a handle on things why not pass some laws making it more difficult for the illegals to remain in the state instead of giving them drivers licenses.
Oh I forgot it is because he wants their votes just like Hillary.
Hillary wants the illegals to remain in this country and on her welfare roles, she would give them all drivers license if she could, she wants their votes in "08", she needs those votes.
The only ones believing what she says and backing her actions are the bleeding hearts, and the socialist. Any free thinking person can see through her smoke screen and waffling.
Let him off the hook for what, calling to the people attention that she supports both sides of an issue.
Instead of "Gotcha politics" how about "truth police"
This is what happens when you let grandma run a war: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5372629357720657906
Posted by on November 10, 2007 12:16 PMBeing a liberal means never having to say you're sorry. You can be for something, and if it goes badly, you can then say it was a bad idea from the start: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5372629357720657906
jdg
I understand why some people want to take all guns of the streets and I think it would be a good idea but If I was the power that be I wouldn't support it because I know it won't work and I think better measures can be taken which will insure that the 2nd amendment is left in place.
Does that make me a flipflopper?
Posted by leftside on November 10, 2007 12:36 PMStill no link with Hillary flip flopping people.
Keep reaching
Posted by jay on November 10, 2007 01:02 PMleftside,
It depends on the question. If I ask you whether or not you support removing all guns from citizen's homes, and you respond, "I can understand why someone would want to do that"; Does that mean you would vote for such a bill?
Posted by on November 10, 2007 01:14 PMLeftside,
If you told me "I understand why some people want to take all guns of the streets and I think it would be a good idea"
I don't care how many "buts" you added after that, they is no way i could trust you to protect my right to bear arms. Also I feel you would do what ever you could do, to try to take some if not all of my rights away.
If taking all of the guns of the streets, is a good idea in your mind, and then saying you will protect my right to bear arms, is not only flip flopping it is called the "vocabulary waltz."
"vocabulary waltz " is using as many words as possible that will allow you to dance around the truth.
You are either for it or against it, Make up your mind!
Posted by jgd777 on November 10, 2007 10:55 PMjgd,
That's twice you've taken my comments out of context in order to make a point. So I see no since in continuing on this line. You know where I stand on the issue of the debates. Have a good day.
Posted by leftside on November 11, 2007 07:47 AMjay - Here's the transcripts of the debate from the NY Times (liberal enough for you?) where Hillary clearly avoids committing to an endorsement of Spitzers plan but very plainly argues in favor of it. She even goes on to say the illegal immigration problem is the fault of the current administration. Where the hell does she get the idea that we didn't have this problem in the 90's??? That comment itself speaks volumes about the lies this woman will tell if she thinks it will be to her advantage.
But the very next day she openly endorses the plan.
Here's a clue for you jay... That's called a flip flop.
In addition, anyone who supports such a ridiculous plan to extend driving privledges (it's not a right) to illegals hasn't any clue about what's best for this country or it's legal citizens.
Posted by KW on November 11, 2007 12:14 PM"
Here's the transcripts of the debate from the NY Times (liberal enough for you?) where Hillary clearly avoids committing to an endorsement of Spitzers plan but very plainly argues in favor of it"
Exactly...no flipflopping. If only all of our politicians were this careful with their support of various proposals.
And again fellas...no one is talking about complete withdrawal from iraq....no matter what Rush tells you. Everyone knows that we'll have to be there in part for years because of the Republican party's mistakes.
Nice try fellas....now...instead of simply repeating Rush's talking points...why don't you tell us which of hillary's explicit policy stances you don't like
Posted by jay on November 11, 2007 01:35 PMJay,
When she finally decides which side she is on in the political issues I will be happy to respond. Iraq (both sides) Amnesty for illegals (for and against) Socialized Healthcare (for it, but it is not really socialized Healthcare) Taxes (only the rich, but over 50% of the her SCHIP bill was financed by people making $40,000 or less a year)
Let me know when I should stop, because the list goes on and on.
I think jay is such a flipflopper he can't tell when someone else is doing it.
Reread the links jay. And come back after you understand them.
Posted by KW on November 12, 2007 09:49 AMAgain fellas...Hillary has been consistent in her intent that we should start redeployment immediately or shortly, but that our troops will have to be in country for years or decades because of this Republican mistake.
She has also supported the mainstream and majority position that we should enforce our border and labor laws AND provide a guest worker program with a path to ctiizenship for those immigrants that qualify.
You guys are still spouting the minority talking points on the healthcare quagmire....and that's fine...but she hasn't flipflopped (for more than a decade) on her intent there either.
So....again...you can be good little footsoldiers for Rush and Rosen...or you can talk about which policy stances with which you disagree...and from yoru posts is sounds like you are....as usual....in the minority on every single issue anyway....making you irrelevant...still
Posted by jay on November 12, 2007 10:54 AMJay,
"Redeployment", How many? Where will they be redeployed to? How many will stay,?What will be there mission? How will she fight terrorism? Is she willing to confront Iran or will we just sit and talk until they get a nuclear weapon?
"REDEPLOYMENT" Empty statement that could be made by anyone, even if they have no idea what they are going to do
What she supports is exactly what was voted down by Congress. Amnesty for the illegals with little or not investigation into their backgrounds, and an empty PROMISE of border security. She voted for the last bill, and that should tell you what she supports. While you may be partially correct regrading a Guest worker program and a possible path to citizenship is backed by many people, but those actions can only happen after the border has been secured. How does she stand on that issue?
I will agreed with you on her support for socialized medicine, however I don't believe the majority of people want what she is suggesting. Ask the people how many of them want the government controlling their medical care and then tell me the majority want what she is offering.
Posted by jgd777 on November 12, 2007 12:07 PMMcCain has a better plan for changing medical care without requiring taxes to pay for it nor will the feds be the ones running the show.
I'd like to see Hillary debate plans with McCain... Without having to take a poll to see where she stands.
Posted by KW on November 12, 2007 12:40 PMAgain fellas...you're just railing against the boogeymen propagated by the likes of Rush and Rosen.
Yes...the vast majority of Americans want us out of Iraq to a large degree...but of course we'll keep a troops their for decades because of Republican incompetence.
Yes...the vast majority of Americans want us to better enforce our labor and border laws....BUT they ALSO want a GWP for the illegal immigrants who are already here and qualify.
Yes...the vast majority of Americans want the type of healthcare system outlined by Clinton.
Now...you can choose to refuse to believe these facts fellas...but such actions only cement your tinfoil hat-wearing, kook-minority status here and further undermine any shred of crediblity you might hope to have here at the RMN.
Posted by jay on November 12, 2007 01:45 PMTruth,
"Yes...the vast majority of Americans want us out of Iraq to a large degree...but of course we'll keep a troops their for decades because of Republican incompetence."
How is that any different than what is being done, except you want to leave "before" Iraq has been stabilized.
"Yes...the vast majority of Americans want us to better enforce our labor and border laws....BUT they ALSO want a GWP for the illegal immigrants who are already here and qualify."
They may want the GWP but only after the borders have been secured. Without a secured border the GWP is just another pipeline for illegals. Does "qualify" mean just being here? Only 24 hours to do a background check on an illegal immigrate is a ridiculous time frame. And how about a medical checkup?
"Yes...the vast majority of Americans want the type of healthcare system outlined by Clinton."
No one has an idea of what socialized medicine entails, all they see is FREE health care. I learned a long time ago when some tells me it will be free, it usually has cost me a bunch of money or was garbage. When was the last time you received anything that was actually FREE?
Posted by jgd777 on November 12, 2007 06:25 PMjgd...ridiculous rationalizations aside....I'm glad you're finally coming to terms with youir minority status.
Posted by jay on November 12, 2007 06:56 PMJay,
Guess we will see how much of a minority I am actually in during the next election. I feel the people will start to see exactly what the far left liberal Dems have in mind for this country during the upcoming political debates. We will see how accurate your polls were.
Posted by jgd777 on November 12, 2007 07:24 PMThere's no smoke and mirrors at play here jdg. From what I've seen of your stances...you are in the minority on nearly every single issue before the country today...much like the rest of your far right bretheren...which is why your party has no choice but to abandon its track record and warm up the swift boats come election time.
Posted by jay on November 12, 2007 07:47 PMJay,
I really enjoy it when the far left crazies use "swiftboating" as a replacement for "telling the truth.about"
The track record of fighting for, secure borders, the right to bear arms, the ability to keep our own money and not give it all to the government, taking the fight to the enemy and not sit around and wait for them to strike and demanding the government to enforce our immigration laws. Okay, I can live with that.
Posted by jgd777 on November 12, 2007 08:34 PMAnd here we see the strawmen arguments come out. no one is talking about not securing our borders (after the Rubs failed to do so). no one is talking about repealing the 2nd amendment (no matter what Rush tells you). if you were worried about tax raises you probably shouldn't have supported Rubs who went on the largest spending spree in history (after which a rise in taxes was inevitable). no one is talking about "sitting round and waiting for the enemy to strike" (because Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 or AQ and posed no threat to the US...and has made us LESS SAFE). no one is talking about NOT enforcing our labor laws (after the Rubs had 7 years to fix our broken immigration system).
Again guys...these myths and strawman arguments probably play well on the Rush Limbaugh Fantasy Hour...but here in the real world...that kind of bullshit is going to get called out.
Any questions?
Posted by jay on November 12, 2007 08:42 PMJay,
You are absolutely correct when you say no one is talking about these things. The Dems are just doing it.
Can you say Amnesty before secured borders, the Dems do it all of the time.
Will they say they want to repeal the 2nd Amendment, of course not. They will just take away your rights a little at a time.
There is absolutely no need to increase taxes, we are increasing the revenue and could decrease wasteful spending.
Ajad, has stated on numerous occasions his determination to destroy Israel and the US. You just choose to not take him seriously, much like we didn't take Hitler seriously.
Every far left crazy organization fights any attempt of ICE to enforce our immigration laws. These are the same organization that are backing the Dems, so tell me again about how they will protect our American workers.
I make my decisions based on observations and not what people say. Actions speak louder than words.
Posted by jgd777 on November 12, 2007 09:07 PMjgd777 said quite stupidly:
"Ajad, has stated on numerous occasions his determination to destroy Israel and the US. You just choose to not take him seriously, much like we didn't take Hitler seriously."
Hahahahaha!!!
Who's the latest Hitler today jgd?? Hahahahaha!!!
You can come out from under the bed now you chicken sh*t..
Posted by Charles B on November 13, 2007 09:06 AM"I make my decisions based on observations and not what people say. "
You've said a lot of incorrect things over the last few weeks jdg...but this has to be on the top of the list. We've established that your "observations" are based on rhetoric, not reality....so nothing could be further from the truth.
Posted by jay on November 13, 2007 09:46 AMCharles,
You can choose to ignore the maniac Ajad, that is what liberals are known for. The Neville Chamberlain foreign policy position, negotiate until they attack and then blame someone else.
Jay,
Yes I actually watch the far left trying to raise taxes at every opportunity. I read the SCHIP bill and saw first hand the garbage they were trying to push down the throat of the American people. I read the Amnesty bill and saw first hand the numerous loopholes provided the illegals in that bill.
I don't live my life based on distorted polls, like some people I have heard from. You should try getting your own facts instead of what some poll is telling you.
Posted by jgd777 on November 13, 2007 11:50 AM