- Politics never meant to be a career option
- Term limits the answer for Congress
- Turkey may have saved Dems' bacon
- Teachers unions: free ride on accountability
- Teachers unions: free ride on accountability
- Blaming the hippo
- Token nod to seniors
- Out of luck, eh?
- A DIFFERING VIEW/Three amendments to fix the Farm Bill
- DREAM Act still needed
Excess of Independence
Kudos to Jason Salzman for looking into the omnipresent Independence Institute and asking why journalists are giving this one organization such a big megaphone.
In addition to the mentioned Jon Caldara, Dave Kopel and Jessica Peck Corry, we have institute pioneers John Andrews and Mike Rosen, along with newcomers Amy Oliver and Mark Hillman, all making their voices heard early and often in the local media. Just why the Post and Rocky feel the need to provide so much attention to one organization is a mystery.
It is especially disturbing that the institute is the single most-quoted policy organization in Colorado, according to Salzman. It certainly would be better if journalists looked for good information rather than good quotes.
Doug Hubka, Lakewood
yep doug it really sucks when there are people in the media that report the truth insead of making things up for the dnc.
look at your gov ritter last night in the dark signed an executive order to allow the government employees to have their unions have barginning powers which is another way to say hold the tax payer as a hostiage for better pay. what the gov didnt want was any fan fair about it as it might show that colorados state workers are very well paid when they do a comparision to the other states they like to use to see how we stack up. now the unions are incontrol of pay and benefit packages thanks to good ole boy ritter.
how long now before we here their are 'talks' starting on the wages of one of these groups? I am sure they will need more time off and better wages to do the jobs they dont do now.
The leftist fall-back position-
If you can't make the case, silence the opposition. It comes to the same thing.
Posted by James Jones on November 3, 2007 08:10 AMLet’s see now, Fox News blathers on and on about liberal bias in the media and the ditto heads lap it up, but let someone suggest that there may be conservative bias in the media and now we are “ silencing the opposition” What a load ..
Posted by Doug Hubka on November 3, 2007 08:37 AMYes they are paid well and that's ok with me if, that insures competent employees aware of the fact that they are public servants payed by tapayer's money. But, for the most part, that is not the case. For instance the DMV, which has taken on all the trappings of the IRS's arrogance and incomptence, as well as their, how dare you question me attitude in adding penalties or, conversely, ignoring judges and juries not guilty findings all in the name of increasing their budgets coffers.
But the real absurdity with public employees is that they are in a collective that gets health insurance at a much reduced cost in comparison with We The People so, their cost of living is less than ours. And now, thanks to Ritter's opening the door, they will cry for more perks to be given to them paid for out of our increasingly drained pockets.
The workingmen and women and small businesses in this country are already being taxed out of exsitence as it is. It will not take much more of this idiotic political expediency driven tax increases before honest people must become dishonest simply to survive.
I'm not a republican or a democrat simply because both those political parties are clearly fiscally irresponsible. Look at what they laugingly call the budget, it's in a hole created by grossly incompetent spending by republicans in this occupation of Iraq and democrats in their social engineering scheme. There is ample evidence that these two parties may different on the surface but have the same foolish absurd, uncareing and arrogant minds underneath that facade of difference they hide behind.
It is only the very rich who have not woke up to this usurption of freedom, justice and liberty as yet, while the abjectly poor are to busy trying to survive to care, and you wonder why they turn to drug dealing. The Middle Class, honest hard working blue collar workers and small businesses are the ones paying the price for this idiotic crap.It's time we all ignored the individual political beliefs of our party's line and what their agendas are, rise above all that to the higher calling of simply saying NO to this generation of spend now pay for latter dunce caped politicians and all their programs that are not in the best interest of the economic suvival of the people, If you don't there will only be two, so called classes left, just like there are in 90% of the countries on this planet : Those who have everything and those who have nothing.
Posted by Allen Campbell on November 3, 2007 08:51 AM
Doug writes about Fox News what about CNN,MSNBC,CNBC,ABC,NBC, and CBS local news stations. Then what about all major newspapers they are not anyone would call conservative. When polled most journalist say they are liberal so how are they going to report a story. The people mentioned are commentators and are not journalist. There is a difference between the two one reports and another makes a comment about the story as in a newspaper there is the news section of the paper and then there is the editorial section of the paper.
Posted by brad on November 3, 2007 09:20 AMDoug writes about Fox News what about CNN,MSNBC,CNBC,ABC,NBC, and CBS,NPR, local news stations. Then what about all major newspapers they are not anyone would call conservative. When polled most journalist say they are liberal so how are they going to report a story. The people mentioned are commentators and are not journalist. There is a difference between the two one reports and another makes a comment about the story as in a newspaper there is the news section of the paper and then there is the editorial section of the paper.
Posted by brad on November 3, 2007 09:30 AMHubka,
By all means, lets silence any information that counters the Liberal spin provided by THE MAJORITY of the media;
ABC ,CBS, NBC ,CNN, MSNBC, Time, Newsweek,NPR,New York Times, La Times Wash Post, Ap,UPI, Reuters .......
And you're worried about Fox News and The Independence Inst.?
You need to grow up and acknowledge the fact that the dominate liberal media must sometimes voice the opinion of the other half of the population, which they rarely do.
LIBERALS ARE IDIOTS!
I can see why Democrat Doug Hubka would be against the Independence Institute because they defend the Second Amendment and Freedom of Speech.These are things the Democrat party does not believe in but instead they push for terrorists rights.
Posted by An American on November 3, 2007 09:44 AMOnce again, get over your indoctrination of repebulican and democratic party lines. Are you too blind to see that's what the corrupt politicians want? While your so intently busy argueing points that will not change one damned thing, and at each others throats consistently and continually, they are taking the fabric of this country apart at the seams. Quit this idiotic, mindless bantering back and forth about what you think you believe and take an objective look around you. You are surrounded by no clue politicians who know nothing but how to spend taxpayers money and ask for even more, while you're too busy dealing with you own egotistical crap. WAKE THE HELL UP PEOPLE ! Your wasting time and we don't have much left to prevent the slide of the American People's just and valid interests into Big Brother Land and it's westcoast off shoot, Animal Farm Land.
Posted by Allen Campbell on November 3, 2007 10:51 AMAllen,
We are talking about the unbalance of media reporting . If anything is rep vs dem it is this topic. Spare us the "all politicians are bad" , that has nothing to do with the discussion.
And by the way, the way information is spun and delivered to the masses is enormous in creating public opinion. But I'm sure you like the lib slant just fine.
LIBERALS ARE IDIOTS!
The posts are interesting, yet no one had answered the question as to why the Post and Rocky seem to favor one political organization over all the others in their news and commentary sections. Could it be that one of the major financial backers of the I.I. is also a big advertiser .
One thing for sure is that so called liberal bias in the news is just a myth created to propagandize the country. Just remember it was Fox news that brought us George Bush, the biggest diaster this country has ever had for a President.
11;28,
Just were in the hell did you learn to read. I said nothing about supporting the left or the right. But I guess you rightwingnuts can create your own idea of what anyone says into a left leaning statement, then insult the writter for what he did not say in the first place. You get 5 stars for imagination and a failing grade for comprehension
The so called "independence Institute" is nothing more than a propaganda mill. If you read Doug's post you'll probably figure out why the RMN and the Post don't describe them more acurately and why they publish so much of their spin-crap.
Posted by Stan B on November 3, 2007 12:45 PMAnd as for--spare us the : all politicians are bad", you put that in quotations. Where was that written in my coment that you dare attribute that to me. But, with very few exemptions, they are bad and if you were not so wrapped up in the rightwing propaganda that blinds you to all else, you would see what I am talking about instead of denying that it is a fact that they don't represent us and they are to involved in special interests agenda to fullfill there sworn oath. to do so.
Posted by Allen Campbell on November 3, 2007 12:51 PMPolitically, Colorado is an easy mark for fringe ideas, owing in part to the relatively low quality of journalism -- the disproporiate influence of a single think tank is just one sympton.
Just as wealthy out-of-staters know they can market-test fringe political ideas via CO ballot issues, whose passage is purchased at bargain basement prices, so too can a think tank such as Independent Institute embed itself into the local media, without much notice or complaint. A liberal group could do the same. It is less a judgment on the quality of ideas, as much an indication of the region's cow-town reputation and general civic disinterest among the population. It a chicken-or-egg question -- would better journalism result in more engaged citizens, or the other way around.
Posted by on November 3, 2007 01:04 PMIf Doug thinks the that Fox gave us Bush then who gave us Clinton? It would be CNN,NPR,ABC,NBC,CBS, and the NY TIMES. Doug fells that the local papers favor one party they do it is the democrat party. Where in local news do we hear or read about anything positive about anything that the Bush administration either here or abroad. If we do it is only the the negative for example on local news they talk about the death toll, or bombings in Iraq what about any positives as well?
Posted by brad on November 3, 2007 01:36 PMAllen,
We all have been reading your posts.In just about everyone of them you warn us, on it seems whatever the issue , that we should not distinguish and label arguments as being either Rep or Dem. You always then go on with some canned spiel involving how all politicians are alike. You may not be aware but reread your posts.
As far as right wing propaganda, which I agree exists, but not to the extent of the MSM spewing left wing propaganda , I pride myself on getting both sides of an issue which require me to access many nontraditional sources. When was the last time you got on any conservative blogs to get the whole story not being reported by the MSM?
LIBERALS ARE IDIOTS!
Posted by on November 3, 2007 06:47 PMHubka,
Anyone who thinks the msm is conservative must be coming from the extreme far left.
Are you a Truther too?
And Salzman and the RMN quote Colorado Media Matters often without any opposing view . Are they a source for good info in your opinion?
LIBERALS ARE IDIOTS!
Dear no name , if you actually read the newspaper you would know that the RMN slants to the right in their editorial department. You may be surprised to find Mike Rosen, George Will and a host of other conservatives., but you would have to actually turn off the radio and read the paper to know that.
You have yet to answer the question I have raised and instead spent all day attacking and proclaimng that Liberals are Idiots. Still you do not even want to put your name to your opinion. How about a name: WINGNUTS-R-US.
Dear no name , if you actually read the newspaper you would know that the RMN slants to the right in their editorial department. You may be surprised to find Mike Rosen, George Will and a host of other conservatives., but you would have to actually turn off the radio and read the paper to know that.
You have yet to answer the question I have raised and instead spent all day attacking and proclaimng that Liberals are Idiots. Still you do not even want to put your name to your opinion.
Dear no name , if you actually read the newspaper you would know that the RMN slants to the right in their editorial department. You may be surprised to find Mike Rosen, George Will and a host of other conservatives., but you would have to actually turn off the radio and read the paper to know that.
You have yet to answer the question I have raised and instead spent all day attacking and proclaimng that Liberals are Idiots. Still you do not even want to put your name to your opinion.
You can say that again, Doug.
Did it ever occur to you people that the Independence Institute is a libertarian think tank and Media Matters is a left leaning organization. Any time you read something from either of those organizations or those quoting them, just be aware of their likely spin direction.
This is not difficult, people.
There are lots of organizations out there posing as 'think tanks' and virtually all have a political slant on things. You just need to figure out where they are coming from. I'd be particularly suspicious of those that claim to be non-partisan. Few are, really.
Like the old saying goes, "don't believe everything you read" (or hear, or see on TV). If you are aware of their spin it makes it a bit easier to filter what you are exposed to and decide what you believe.
Brad, so do you reckon that CNN,NPR,ABC,NBC,CBS, and the NY TIMES are all left wing?
Do me a favour will you, rate each one and Fox on a scale where 1 is very Consevative and 7 is very Liberal.
Posted by Bangalore Skank on November 3, 2007 09:10 PMBrad, so do you reckon that CNN,NPR,ABC,NBC,CBS, and the NY TIMES are all left wing?
Do me a favour will you, rate each one and Fox on a scale where 1 is very Consevative and 7 is very Liberal.
Posted by Bangalore Skank on November 3, 2007 09:14 PMHubka,
I have no problem with what is said on the OPINION pages, the liberal spinning of NEWS STORIES done by the majority of the msm is the real problem. A problem you don't see due to your rabid lefty view.
It is cleaver how you dodged my Truther question. Answer it honestly so we know where youre coming from or STFU!
LIBERALS ARE IDIOTS!
There is no debate here.All the polls I have seen in the past show that a large percent of the mainstream media vote Democrat and only a small percent vote Republican.If you look at the issue of gun control there is no doubt that the media pushes for anti-gun legislation.If you do not believe me call the NRA at 1-877-NRA-2000.Studies have shown that there are many more stories in newspapers slanted anti-gun than ones slanted pro-gun.As you know more gun control is a liberal Democrat agenda.In fact the only reason the media is not pushing their anti-gun agenda is because it hurt their Democrat friends in the past elections.
Posted by An American on November 4, 2007 12:40 AMAdd to the category of The VERY BIG LIE: the media has a liberal bias, and my favorite, Reagan won the Cold War. True loads...
Posted by adolpus on November 4, 2007 07:15 AMAnother area where you will be able to see the liberal bias in the media is when the Democrats try to close down freedom of speech on talk radio using the Fairness Doctrine.You will see that the mainstream media will either not mention the issue or spin it in such a way that makes the legislation look like it will bring "fairness" to talk radio.There will be no push of legislation that will bring "fairness" to the mainstream media.That is because they know the effort is to take freedom of speech away and the Democrat controlled media want nothing to do with such legislation controlling them.The mainstream media are the "sock puppets" of the Democrat party.
Posted by An American on November 4, 2007 08:00 AMSkank,
I know you asked Brad to rate each of the networks; I hope you don't mind if I do that, since he has not.
Also, I took one of the gender bias tests on the abortion post. I did the Gender-Science one. Apparently, I have a moderately strong association of men to science and women to liberal arts.
Shocking.
Now, for the ratings with 1 being very conservative and 7 being very liberal. (therefore, 4 is middle of the road)
CNN- 5.5
NPR- 6
ABC- 5.5
NBC- 5.5
CBS- 5.5
NY Times- 6
Fox- 2.5
How would you rate them?
Posted by Mike on November 4, 2007 08:17 AMSkank, you asked how I would rank these stations.
CNN-6
NPR-7
ABC-6
CBS-6
NBC-6
NY Times-7
FOX NEWS-4
Now your turn.
Posted by brad on November 4, 2007 09:20 AMSalzman's motto: Free speech for me but not for thee. Stop whining...
Posted by citizen on November 4, 2007 09:25 AMBlinded by the light of ignorance you trip over the light fantastic and fall into the swamp of nonreasonable, irrational and right/ left spin doctoring then, find wonder in why the world is not spinning the way you think it should.
In the mean time your tax money is being pounded down a rat hole, the cost of living is exponentially going up,China amasses trillions of dollars worth of T bonds and saving bonds, the war insures gasoline will go to $5 a gallon and the budget deficit and the National Debt is increasing to the point where are great grand kids will still be paying for it, foreclosures are at an all time 50 year high and escalating, and the working blue collar men and women and small businesses are having to choose which necessities they can afford on a week to week basis.
While the good old State of Colorado is experiencing large taxes losses and the legislator zealots are going to add to that by removing casinos from their exemption to the smoking ban adding another $50,000,000 +. Yeah boy, everything is just fine and dandy, in your dreams.
Posted by Allen Campbell on November 4, 2007 11:06 AMWho are you talking to Campbell? Yourself again?
Posted by on November 4, 2007 11:18 AMMike, the more the merrier mate.
I also show the same bias on Gender-science, embarrassing as heck but there it is.
1- Very Conservative to 7- Very Liberal
CNN- 3
NPR- 3.5
ABC- n/r
NBC- n/r
CBS- n/r
NY Times- 3
Fox- 1
I really haven’t watched enough of ABC, NBC, CBS to rate them (I watch about 2hrs TV per month these days).
NPR I seldom listen to anymore, and just catch the podcasts of shows I like, such as PHC and Cartalk. I just find they are way too softball on government and business and don’t really represent many liberal viewpoints at all. Their choice of guest speakers and experts shows a clear and consistent low key Conservative trend.
I fully sympathize with Chomsky when he says that NPR makes him so mad that he can’t listen to them when he drives.
Have a think how often NPR or NYT are pro-union, pro-nationalization, or anti-corporation. All things you would expect to be the central theme. Instead, they take the odd little snipe from cover, and then quickly act all obsequious and fawning. But then look where their money comes from and it all becomes clear. The can’t afford to bite the hand that feeds them.
"I also show the same bias on Gender-science, embarrassing as heck but there it is."
I wasn't embarrassed; why were you? I think it is normal to think of men being more inclined toward science and women to liberal arts. Why is that embarrassing? Should we think the opposite, or that there is no leaning one way or the other?
As for your ratings, I guess we have different definitions of liberal and conservative. You are so far left that you have to look to your right to see the NY Times; therefore, you think they are conservative.
Posted by Mike on November 4, 2007 06:12 PMMike said ”I wasn't embarrassed; why were you?”
Well that goes to social expectations.
Embarrassment is felt when one transgresses a perceived social taboo, and with me it is socially wrong to be prejudiced against women. Evidently you feel no such taboo about women.
”I think it is normal to think of men being more inclined toward science and women to liberal arts”
Which essentially means that you are prejudiced against women and would get into big trouble if you had power to decide things like promotion, allocation of budget, or employment of academics, research staff, or scientists, for example.
”Should we think the opposite, or that there is no leaning one way or the other?”
You should think there is no leaning one way or the other.
The essence of bigotry is to treat an individual based on a prejudice against a class or category. Since you are keen on individualism, this should strike a chord with you.
There is also no biological reason to think that women are less able in science, or would prefer liberal arts to science. The differences in numbers are purely the result of cultural factors and opportunity.
”You are so far left that you have to look to your right to see the NY Times; therefore, you think they are conservative.”
Yep, the positions are largely relative, not absolute, but there are some standardized measures for these things. I have used one of those on NPR and NYT and it isn’t too much different to what I saw. Think about when last the NYT advocated unionization or nationalization of industry. A left-wing paper would do it regularly. A centrist paper would do it once in a while, and about as often as it mentions privatization. A right-wing paper would not say it at all, but would talk about privatization regularly.
So now you have met a real liberal and left-winger, you can call me names, or ask me questions, your choice.
No names (other than Skank, which you gave to yourself).
I find it interesting that you take from that test that I am prejudiced against women. What about men? I said that women are more inclined toward liberal arts, and men toward science; aren't I prejudiced against men, also? Or, do you believe liberal arts to be a lesser field; therefore, you are prejudiced against people in that field. If you believe I have slighted women by saying that I believe they are more inclined to liberal arts, then you must have little respect for that field.
"Which essentially means that you are prejudiced against women and would get into big trouble if you had power to decide things like promotion, allocation of budget, or employment of academics, research staff, or scientists, for example."
Nonsense, but I do see a difference between the sexes that you don't see, or are too embarrassed to admit. I believe that men and women have the same capabilities in most areas. Men will have the advantage (in general) in areas of speed and strength. But, there are also differences in men and women that can lead to pursuing different things. Women are more nurturing than men (naturally; not because of culture or opportunity), so that can lead to women seeking out jobs where they can nurture; nursing, teaching, social work, etc...that don't attract men in the same numbers.
That doesn't mean that women don't have the aptitude for science; it doesn't mean that men can't be nurses, or teachers, or social workers; it just means that there are differences between the sexes that can lead to different interests and pursuits.
"So now you have met a real liberal and left-winger..."
That's obvious from your history of posts and your hyper-sensitivity here. You are so afraid of offending that you try to make everybody the same; not just equal, but the same.
We're not.
Posted by Mike on November 5, 2007 06:46 AMI think from An Americans postings on this page and others we can clearly see what a total idiot he is. I would say he is a hateful man, except that to call him a 'man' is a slight to every man in the room. He has been asked repeatedlly to state his military experience (NONE) and to state why he hasnt enlisted. It should be apparent he is too much a coward to enlist, he 'pretends' to support the war but hides under his bed instead of joining our military.
His cowardness makes it obvious that he hates America and hates freedom. His lack of intelligence and his total cowardice shows in every post. If you cant tell us why you are too chicken to enlist can you tell us why you hate this country so much? I encourage every real American in this room to spit on this spineless excuse of a man.