Water boarding torture
Where Mr. Thomasson is wrong, is in his suggestion that the so-called “Unitary Executive theory” of Presidential power - endorsed by Judge Mukasey in his Senate testimony - might be legally plausible. In its most extreme form - the form claimed by President Bush - a President with “Unitary Executive” powers, has the SOLE authority to decide what is, and what is not, the law. There are no Constitutional “checks and balances” on the power of a Unitary Executive. Laws passed by Congress can be ignored (with “Presidential Signing Statements") and, Supreme Court decisions (such as those prohibiting warrantless wiretapping) can be treated as a mere “advisory opinions.” We, as a Nation, are sliding down a very slippery slope. In the seven years since the Bush administration took office and began exercising “Unitary Executive” powers, the United States has morphed from a relatively free, small-"d” democratic/republic that valued freedom, justice, and the rule of law, into a more authoritarian quasi-police state that uses “extraordinary rendition,” torture and domestic surveillance.
In his first inaugural address, Thomas Jefferson said: “freedom of religion; freedom of the press, and freedom of person under the protection of the habeas corpus, and trial by juries impartially selected . . . form the bright constellation which has gone before us and guided our steps through an age of revolution and reformation . . .
They should be the creed of our political faith, the text of civic instruction, the touchstone by which to try the services of those we trust; and should we wander from them in moments of error or of alarm, let us hasten to retrace our steps and to regain the road which alone leads to peace, liberty, and safety.”
For the sake of the Nation, the next Attorney General MUST be a person who will help us “regain that road” by fighting to restore, protect, and defend, the Constitution, and re-establish the rule of law. As a supporter of “Unitary Executive theory,” Judge Mukasey is, clearly, not the man for the job.
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This is easy really, we should identify all those who don't believe that waterboarding is torture, let them go through the procedure and then ask them again. (start with Cheney, any luck and he will keel over)
Posted by just sayin' on November 7, 2007 03:17 PMhey if you want to talk to a person who knows how the water boarding makes you feel like you are drowning you can ask Mary Jo, oops no as teddy he should remember the sounds coming from his car.
way to go justino show just how much the safety and independence of this country your can not stand by demanding your opinion must be law. even good ole boy billy c said he would use it to protect the US. I guess he is to far removed now to be listened to.
Bush = Worst President ever!!!
Posted by Karl Cheney on November 7, 2007 03:49 PMYeah the Constitution is just being trashed left and right... yada yada yada
Our Constitution -- created a unitary chief executive. That chief executive could, in times of war or emergency, act with the decisiveness, dispatch and, yes, secrecy, needed to protect the country and its citizens.
Unitary Executive is a real "theory" that's been employed by most administrations dating back to Jefferson. Even Bubba used it.
Whether you like it or not, the President has expressed authority as defined by the Constitution that is exempt from Congressional oversight.
"Whether you like it or not, the President has expressed authority as defined by the Constitution that is exempt from Congressional oversight."
Surely you'll remember this when we have a President less aligned with your ideology...
Posted by Charles B on November 7, 2007 04:25 PMCharles B,
Excellent point, if this was a Democrat President and all of this was going on their heads would explode. But because he has an R in front of his title thay will let him get away with anything..
While I disagree with Mr. Justino's conclusions, I appreciate his well written and thoughtful letter. I hope he writes more.
As for his conclusions, I strongly disagree. The greatest immorality is for the United States to lose this war. While we seek to be as humane as the path to victory permits, we cannot shrink from doing what it takes to win. The bombing campaign aginst German cities in WWII didn't turn us into Nazis and using techniques like waterboarding against our enemies won't make us fascists. The greater moral issue is our need to defeat enemies who revel in butchering the innocent, who celebrate atrocities, and who claim their god wants blood. If we fail to do all that we can to defeat these enemies, then we condemn many more innocents to death.
Posted by Neal5x5 on November 7, 2007 05:00 PMWhy doesn't the Democrat controlled Congress just pass a bill, clearly stating that waterboarding is torture? They can list out all of the things they consider torture and make them all illegal?
Posted by jgd777 on November 7, 2007 05:13 PMOh Karl the great critical thinker...
Your lame response doesn't change the fact any President is expressly granted that power by the Consitutition.
Posted by on November 7, 2007 06:58 PMTheir granted the power to torture?
I'm not following your argument, If this was Kerry your head would explode. Remember all these great powers you want to grant Bush and him being above the law will transfer to Hilary or Obama. I think Bush has done so much damage to the Republicans I think the American people don't want another one in the Whitehouse, so everything you want Bush to have will transfer and then you will have Hilary tapping your phones, mail and e-mails. How do you feel about that?
Waterboard the democraps in congress to find out who they are working for.
Posted by Keith on November 7, 2007 09:51 PMLet up on Mukasey. He has already demonstrated he'll be an independent Attorney General when he made the controversial promise to enforce the law.
Posted by on November 7, 2007 10:16 PMi wanna pologize to evrbody for being such a stoopid patetic imbellcell, butt it goes to show what cood happen when you get waterbord witch I did when I was younger. It aint toture its kinds fun.
sigh... it aint easy groin thru life wit my head up my ass.
Okay Keith: We know you did not author that last thread: 06:44, but you have to admit it is a good caricature of you and a caricature is an accurate representation. Just go away, Keith, you are persona non grata, evidenced by the numerous posts that ridicule you. You have a foul mouth and poor vocabulary. I don't know whether to feel sorry for you or despise you for your hateful words towards, especially, females.
Posted by JVB on November 8, 2007 09:43 AMJVB isn't that a brand of underwear?
Posted by on November 8, 2007 11:35 AMQuestion: Is it right to torture one person to save the lives of 2 million? My answer is yes one life given to save 2 million I can live with that.
Let's examine a hypothetical scenario. I am going to assume no one on this board is a member or knows a member of Al-Qaeda.
I have my "special agents" hook an electrode to a rather sensitive part of your body. My agents ask you if you're a member of Al-Qaeda. You say no. My guys give you a zap of electric current to that special area. My guys ask again. You say no. Another zap. How many zaps of electricity would it take for you pro-torture people to admit you're a member, even though you're not? All you have to do is admit to being a member of AQ, and I have the electrode removed.
Its not that I am against war. Nor do I think Gitmo needs to be Club Med. I understand the deal. I also expect our govt to get it right. Even 1 innocent person tortured is too many. If John McCain can be against it, so can I.
Posted by BO on November 8, 2007 04:15 PM"Question: Is it right to torture one person to save the lives of 2 million? My answer is yes one life given to save 2 million I can live with that."
Even if that "one life" is yours, Joe?
Posted by Hans Christian Brando on November 9, 2007 07:52 AMI agree with Neal5x5.
Question: What method or methods would any of you posters do to extract life saving information from a known terrorist???
Posted by A on November 9, 2007 10:08 AMI like that electrodes to a sensitive part of the male body idea. Could we try it out on Keith first, assuming we can get them out of Hanks mouth long enough?
Posted by Electrician on November 9, 2007 10:18 AMWe should use waterboarding torture on the liberals and make them confess the truth about their fake concern for their pals the terrorists and are just out tomake political points. Make them confess that they really hate America and would love to see more terrorist attacks on our soil so they can use them get into power, the sick socialists lowlifes.
Sounds like The "Electrician is giving away is homosexual secrets and sick pratices he uses on his boyfriend, Hans Un-Christian Brando. Gross man!!!
Posted by on November 9, 2007 12:39 PMWe should use waterboarding torture on the liberals and make them confess the truth about their fake concern for their pals the terrorists and are just out tomake political points. Make them confess that they really hate America and would love to see more terrorist attacks on our soil so they can use them get into power, the sick socialists lowlifes.
Sounds like The "Electrician is giving away his homosexual secrets and sick pratices he uses on his boyfriend, Hans Un-Christian Brando. Gross man!!!
Posted by on November 9, 2007 12:39 PMThe Democrats are against"water boarding"because it hurts the terrorists and helps our troops.
Posted by An American on November 9, 2007 01:13 PMAn American:
I think you accidentally said something valid. Next time proof read for unintended coherence...
Posted by Charles B on November 9, 2007 02:08 PM"Question: What method or methods would any of you posters do to extract life saving information from a known terrorist???"
The same ones that were used to interrogate the known Nazi leaders, plus newer techniques taken from the sciences.
The first thing you have to define is what your purpose is.
Do you want to:
- extract accurate and actionable information
- take revenge and inflict punishment
- have fun at somebody else's expense
- destroy somebody’s mind or memory
If it’s good information you want, then torture isn’t the way to go, but if the aim is to have a rollicking good time making somebody’s life a misery and living hell, and getting them to live in anguish and in terror, then torture is just the ticket.
Same if you are bored and want to create an enemy to play with. Just start torturing people and pretty soon you will have a bunch of fairly committed playmates.
Charles B,I think you are wrong about my posting.I think you should read it again. Your comprehension is lacking.
Posted by An American on November 10, 2007 08:48 AM