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On Point
Vincent Carroll, editor of the editorial pages, writes his On Point column most weekdays. He is also an author and freelance writer. Reach Vincent Carroll at carrollv@RockyMountainNews.com.


Carroll: Duke's sorry faculty
Thursday, April 12 at 12:00 AM

The most remarkable fact about the Duke lacrosse fiasco is not that it took nearly a year for obviously flimsy charges to be dropped against the players. That’s a long time, but it was only in January that the North Carolina attorney general took over the case from the corrupt Durham County district attorney.

Nor is it the fact that District Attorney Mike Nifong would so crudely exploit stereotypes of well-to-do white male athletes in order to entice black votes in a re-election campaign. Race-baiting is a time-honored political tactic, although one deployed more frequently decades ago — and then mostly against blacks, of course.

The most remarkable feature of this legal debacle isn’t even the cheerleading for the prosecution that could be found in such major media as The New York Times. As biased and credulous as many reports were, a few were first-rate. For example, the late Ed Bradley of 60 Minutes deftly demolished the prosecution’s case in a report last fall.

No, the most astonishing fact, hands down, was and remains the squalid behavior of the community of scholars at Duke itself. For months nearly the entire faculty fell into one of two camps: those who demanded the verdict first and the trial later, and those whose silence enabled their vigilante colleagues to set the tone.

K.C. Johnson, a history professor at Brooklyn College, has followed every twist in the Duke scandal on his Durham-in- Wonderland Web site. He chronicles the faculty’s performance as the hysteria mounted.

“In late March (2006),” Johnson writes, “Houston Baker, a professor of English and Afro-American Studies, issued a public letter denouncing the ‘abhorrent sexual assault, verbal racial violence, and drunken white male privilege loosed amongst us’ and demanding the ‘immediate dismissals’ of ‘the team itself and its players.’ A week later, on April 6, 88 members of Duke’s arts and sciences faculty signed a public statement saying ‘thank you’ to campus demonstrators who had distributed a ‘wanted’ poster of the lacrosse players and publicly branded the players ‘rapists.’ By contrast, no Duke professor publicly criticized Nifong’s conduct.”

David Evans, one of the accused, told 60 Minutes that he moved out of the house where the rapes of a black stripper allegedly occurred because of menacing mobs. The Duke president, no profile in courage, canceled the lacrosse season and fired the coach. As recently as a few months ago President Richard Brodhead was still defending the 88 professors who trampled on the presumption of innocence, going so far as to describe some of them as victims, too.

A few Duke professors did acquit themselves well or eventually locate some semblance of a spine. Law professor James Coleman denounced Nifong’s handling of police lineups. Seventeen members of the Duke economics department signed a letter in January criticizing Nifong and assuring student athletes they were welcome in their classrooms.

But for the most part the faculty either supported the branding of three athletes as racists and rapists, didn’t care enough about their plight to speak out, or were cowed into suppressing any call of conscience.

Would those athletes, facing a similarly dubious claim of rape, have fared any better at America’s other elite universities? The idealist yearns to answer yes. The realist, sad to say, knows better.

Vincent Carroll is editor of the editorial pages. Reach him at carrollv@RockyMountain
News.com.


READER COMMENTS

How healing an apology would be from President Brodhead or the Group of 88! And how readily accepted it would be, taken as a token of courage and integrity, not weakness! Alas, it will never come. These people are accountable to no one, speak only to each other, and believe that, in some larger scheme of things, visible only to them, they have nothing to apologize for.

Posted by Jay on April 12, 2007 06:31 AM

The Duke 88 are a disgrace to Duke University and I would think that their continued employment at Duke would cause the parents of high quality students to determine that Duke is not the kind of place to send their kids. What kind of character lessons do students learn from these cowards and jackals?

Posted by Drew Terry on April 12, 2007 06:36 AM

Colleges are ruled by liberal PC professors.

They are just old hippies indoctrinating our young people wih radical and irrational extremist politics.

The 3 young white men should go after Duke University after they get Nifong.


Posted by Craig Burt on April 12, 2007 06:48 AM

Is there any self-identified group in the Unuitd States more odious and despicable than those 88 Duke professors? Thanks also to Carroll for mentioning how the silence of good people is also culpable. Why shouldn't every one of the 88 have their careers ruined the way PC liberals ruin the career of anyone else who makes a slip?

Posted by Leo Frank on April 12, 2007 07:02 AM

The mood of the Duke 88 and President Brodhead
will be far from apologetic. More likely, it will be
"Well, they (the accused) could have done it."

Posted by EmmettWright Jr. on April 12, 2007 07:05 AM

Apology? Sure.

What's needed is the immediate resignation of all 88 of those 'professors', and of Brodhead himself.

Absolutely shameful.

Posted by Jim on April 12, 2007 07:24 AM

Don't you understand, this is not about a few "innocent" atheltes. This is about the wider "paradigm" of race and class in the white-male dominated patriarchy. Of course you do not understand, it does not say, "PhD" next to your name, now does it? We thank the working class single mother woman of color sex worker for her courage to falsely accuse these "innocent" white male privileged athletes and bringing the sin of America and its white patriarchy to all of our collective attention. May multiculturalism be blessed by whatever diety, or non-diety the readers believe in.

* For those that couldn't tell, the above post was sarcasm.

Posted by Publicola on April 12, 2007 07:25 AM

one can only hope that affluent alums of duke will vote by not writing their usual checks

Posted by jdm on April 12, 2007 07:30 AM

What amazes me is that we keep sending our children to these institutions to be "educated" by these left-wing
bigots and partisans. Who are the fools, them or us? The people need to regain control of our universities. They obviously don't now because the universities do not reflect our society's values or policies that lead to academic excellence. Until then, they should not be supported with donations, endowments, government money (too numerous to list the different kinds), or tuitions.

Posted by bindare on April 12, 2007 07:31 AM

They will all be sorry when the parents sue the school. This is not going away.

Posted by Rita on April 12, 2007 07:32 AM

Outside of technical, scientific, and craft courses (including let us not to forget, instruction on how to actually create in the arts, to paint, to write, to compose), unfortunately, paying for a college education in the "humanities" has become something of a crap shoot. The "revolutionary" alternative ideologies of the sixties have long since congealed into one long bureaucraticized whine of feigned self-righteous outrage.

Posted by Paul Freedman on April 12, 2007 07:36 AM

Has anyone considered having the various truly guilty parties begin to make amends to these boys and their families?

After an apology, how about those professors, the school itself, the attorneys general of the state of North Carolina, et. al. raise the funds to repay the victims whatever their financial outlays were in order to defend themselves against this liar, Crystal Gail Mangum and that charlatan, Mike Nifong.

Posted by Mark S. Griffith on April 12, 2007 08:02 AM

"Silence is Golden"
. . . and the color of gold is yellow . . . shame on Duke U. from the administration down to the associate prof.

Posted by Tim Kluckman on April 12, 2007 08:10 AM

The silence of the 88 faculty members at Duke University (like that of Jesse HiJackson) who wrongfully assumed that the 3 lacrosse players were guilty by association - after all they were rich, athletic white males - is absolutely deafing.

Posted by cowgirl on April 12, 2007 08:17 AM

Bullhockey, Mr. Vincent Carroll.

I challenge the readers of this column to take 60 seconds and Google the terms "duke faculty 88" as I just did. Go online and read the actural contents of the Duke faculty letter yourself, rather than believe the hype and spin of this column.

The main focus of the faculty letter is the racist atmosphere present in a selective, expensive Southern university. Nowhere is mentioned the "wanted" posters or any specific protests by the students who were outraged at the time of the allegations.

I attended just such a school - where the frat boys held "Old South" nights and dressed in blackface and held minstrel shows, where it was very common to be accosted by packs of drunk, weaving, vomiting upper-class white men on my way home from work on the weekends. To be African-American on the Duke campus is, for some, a daily challenge against generations of assumed white superiority and ingrained racism.

When I attended this school, it was a common sight to see multiple Confederate flags hanging from dorm and frat house windows. There was one bumper sticker in particular that I remember which protested my school being co-ed - it said, "Girls in the Hay - Not All Day." This kind of Cro-Magnon behavior, when coupled with the daily struggle of having to prove your intellectual worth to bigoted faculty and staff, would crush the spirit of many college students.

Now, lest you think I'm a "disgruntled minority", let me assure you that I'm a blonde, blue-eyed middle-class middle-aged woman. Heck, I was even in a sorority. And guess what? My teenage son plays lacrosse!

But I saw the type of behavior described in the Duke faculty letter firsthand while studying as an undergrad. So unless you've attended a school like Duke, or UVA, or Ole Miss, don't attempt to speak about what it's like down there in the land of upper-class white men. It's a place where I suspect most of you thoughtful readers would be uncomfortable and reluctant to send your daughters and sons.

Posted by Katrina on April 12, 2007 08:19 AM

Count' sainted' Coach K among the "curiously silent' whose lack of moral courage and fear of offending the African American community,enabled the witch hunt to continue. I don't think he will be sleeping very well after examining his role in this matter,the most prominent athletic name and leader on the Duke Campus and nationally and his silence was deafening,he has been greatly diminshed. P.Zierolf

Posted by p zierolf on April 12, 2007 08:24 AM

Hmm...any wonder why more males are avoiding college? Here's a case in point -- universities are under the thumb of radical feminists, girly men and haters of men. God bless our men!

Posted by Deb D on April 12, 2007 08:45 AM

Katrina,

Sorry for your horrible college experiance, you sound like a very sensitive person. Perhaps you should become a bit more aquainted with the case, and actually read the document that is being referenced.

http://photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger/2862/372/1600/99636/Listening_Statement_b.jpg

Posted by Tom from LA on April 12, 2007 08:47 AM

Sad to say the Duke 88 is just a reflection of liberal professors found through out the universities of this country. It is no longer about truth, it is about the agenda. I hope Duke, Nifong and all who persecuted the innocent pay a very heavy price.

Posted by jc on April 12, 2007 08:49 AM

Katrina:

I've read the "Group of 88" letter, and it's - barely - interpretable as you say. As long as you're totally unaware of the context of the time. There's a reason that the Group pulled it, and it's being hosted by groups antithetical to them now.

"The students know that the disaster didn’t begin on March 13th and won’t end with what the police say or the court decides. Like
all disasters, this one has a history. And what lies beneath what we’re hearing from our students are questions about the future."

But there was no diasaster March 13th. Nothing Happened. There wasn't a rape. There wasn't a hate crime. The letter you think is indicative is written in response to a hoax, referencing the hoax, and you're saying that it's "Fake, but accurate".

Sorry, but your implied victimization is a pale comparision to the actual victims here, who were falsely accused, obviously innocent, and who's only crime to the Group of 88 and you was being "White and Male". You've got an athletic white son of your own? Hope you (and he!) are OK with him going through the same wringer when he goes to college.

Posted by Unix-Jedi on April 12, 2007 08:49 AM

Katrina,

It seems that you believe that racial discrimination is prevalent at "southern" colleges simply because you "saw the type of behavior described in the Duke faculty letter firsthand" and assume that most male college students are just another bunch of rich white raciest men who's bigotry is rampant in groups like the lacrosse team at Duke, all without any proof that the members of these groups actually exhibited the types of behavior you described above. That's called guilt by association and is symptomatic of bigotry. In other words, you are actually a bigot as you demonstrate the inability to separate people from their race, in this case the race of these men which is your own, and the actions of a few members of that race.

Face it, you display the same bigoted attitude that you disdain in your post, namely the assumption that most rich white souther gentlemen are racist, all without any proof of your biased opinion.

Posted by Ray on April 12, 2007 08:54 AM

This travesty and many more will continue because the parents aren't paying for an education at Duke they are paying for a ticket into the Old boys club that a degree from Duke provides. They will continue to pay for that ticket no matter how radical their children's education becomes.

The same is true for the Ivies, California's elite schools and others across the Country. Ironically the same system that the Duke 88 went knee jerk against is the system that gives those 88 factulty members the freedom to create and perpetuate their own form of injustice. One form of elitism cat scratching at another.

Posted by Jack France on April 12, 2007 08:55 AM

Our son graduated from Duke Law School
last May. He worked hard for three years &
took out loans for his entire tuition. I believe
Duke University is a great school. This is a
tough case. I believe the students were tried in the media & found to be guilty before all the facts were even given. I do wish them the
best and hope that they can get on with their
lives now that this is behind them. It is also a
sad fact that they were charged in the first place. That young woman also needs prayers.

Posted by Kathy Kocher on April 12, 2007 09:00 AM

This travesty and many more will continue because the parents aren't paying for an education at Duke they are paying for a ticket into the Old boys club that a degree from Duke provides. They will continue to pay for that ticket no matter how radical their children's education becomes.

The same is true for the Ivies, California's elite schools and others across the Country. Ironically the same system that the Duke 88 went knee jerk against is the system that gives those 88 faculty members the freedom to create and perpetuate their own form of injustice. One form of elitism cat scratching at another.

Posted by Jack France on April 12, 2007 09:04 AM

The boys are completely innocent except for their disgraceful drunken stripper party that they organized. However, that is not on the level of the disgraceful faculty at Duke. They should resign, but liberals never resign, they just point the finger.

Posted by martin on April 12, 2007 09:05 AM

I'm with Katrina. What a tangled web of personal and group behaviour of which this is a display. Being a WASP Southern Man of the Univ of TN, I know who I am and who these boys are. The lust and disdain for their probably decent upbringing displayed by a group of man/boys in paying strippers to come to a drunken "orgy" of loosened inhibitions is OBVIOUS but no one speaks to that. THAT woman is just that, a woman. Definitely a stripper, perhaps a prostitute, but also a mother, a daughter, a sister, a Child of God, a sinner like you and me. The legal and responsible party was the DA who will pay for his professional and personal failures. Lacrosse teams represent the University too and paying strippers with Momma and Daddy's money to come entertain our "finest" was in retrospect pretty crummy, too.

Cast your stones, castigate the critics, but when you pound your chest and Thank God for the Victory of the Righteous Right ... I'll thank God for my seat in the back and pray that this young woman's nightmare lessens and that these young men can go on and their golden futures will retain their shine.

Otherwise, Amen, Katrina. Give me a break and look to your own, folks.

As a Note: I am Conservative and would place myself as an Evangelical. I've done more in my life than I'm proud of... or GOT CAUGHT FOR! I hope to do better in the future.

Posted by GaryB on April 12, 2007 09:17 AM

No one came out of this looking good - not the 3 young men, not Nifong, not the stripper. It just again proves that our desires are the means by which we are destroyed.

Posted by Paul on April 12, 2007 09:24 AM

This ended up being a lesson about many things, most notably how high minded faculty can fall down in the mud with the best of them. They were so eager to believe the story, they didn't wait for the trial. Too bad. I wonder how many of them need to rewrite parts of upcoming books, now that they forgone conclusion was bunk.

They owe those young men an apology, but I doubt they will take the high road and give one. Too bad; they should be men and women and set the example for their students.

Posted by Adele on April 12, 2007 09:25 AM

These outrages will continue until alumni stop supporting colleges with money. Stop all donations and endowments until sanity is returned to colleges. I stopped giving to my alma mater, The Ohio State University, when they started veering into the leftist ideology and got away from educating students. When I attended my niece's graduation from OSU I felt I was attending a "Kill all Males" bitch session at the "Women's Studies Group Hate Meeting-of-the Month." When the word rape is uttered more than the word congratulations to the graduates you know things have gotten out of hand. The feminists have taken over the colleges and in many cases it is not a safe place for a man. Look at male college attendance and you'll see a precipitous drop in the years since women have "taken over" the administrations and faculties. It's time for "Take You Sons to Work Day."

Posted by Topperj on April 12, 2007 09:25 AM

I do believe that one day the leftist control of our universities will end, and it will be the internet that will crush this sacred cow, as it has done to sp many others. The moment a study is released showing that a $10,000 University of Phoenix online BA grad is as successful as a $300,000 Duke BA grad, the economics of college will be shattered, and there will be no more tenure for "scholars" in the Departments of Hate Whitey and Hate America.

Posted by Bob Damore on April 12, 2007 09:26 AM

Hmm, where to begin?

Well, actually, I did not have an awful college "experiance" (sic), Tom. I rushed and pledged a sorority, was active in the Student Council, and made the Dean's List - all while working my way through this Southern school. Returned home to the Midwest, got a Master's and have a nice career these days.

I know what I saw and experienced first-hand, however. And my four years in the South as a college student opened my eyes to what African-American students experience daily.

One anecdote:

I was an R.A. in a dorm for two years. On the first day of "move-in", I had a visibly distraught (red-faced and shaking with anger) parent demand that her daughter be moved to another dorm room immediately. Since it was the first day of school, I asked the mother what the problem was. She took me by the hand and led me into her daughter's new dorm room, where her roommate had already arrived, unpacked, and gone out with her parents for lunch.

She pointed to the assortment of Black hair-care products on the dresser and the poster of Michael Jackson (hey, it was the late 80s), and said to me, "There is no way my daughter is going to share a room with a n****r! Can't you smell the stench in here?"

Now, keep in mind that her daughter had never met this unknown roomate - but just the threat of daily contact with an African-American was sending her over the edge. She assumed that I would be on her side, because I was white and in a (slight) authority position.

What did I do? Well, I picked my jaw up off the floor, and gave her the office number of an associate dean of students to contact for a room reassignment. (OK, so I gave her the name of the only African-American dean we had - and let her explain her reasons for rejecting her daughter's roommate sight unseen. A little snarky of me, but I hope it rattled her racist little cage a bit.)

Anecdote #2:

The Kappa Alpha fraternity chapter on my campus held a week-long "Old South" binge each year - and used posters that were designed to imitate the "runaway slave" woodcuts of the 1800s to advertise their activities. Know what I'm talking about? Those cartoon woodcuts which show a big-lipped "darky" escaping with a bundle on a stick? My African-American student awoke one morning to find hundreds of these KA posters all over her dorm door and extending down the hall. I helped her take them down and throw them out, and she went on to class. She didn't complain, she didn't cry, she tolerated this kind of abuse because she was determined to get a good education at our school.

This kind of racism and stupidity was tolerated in the name of "Southern tradition" and defended with a type of wide-eyed incredulous "you're being too sensitive" attitude. But I know the corrosive effects of these acts, experienced by students who simply want a good education and run head-on into the ingrained racism still prevalent at these schools.

My son (an 18-y.o. senior) just accepted a Congressional nomination to a service academy. I hope he behaves as an honorable, intelligent man - not as a drunken, indolent lout as these "boys" were wont to do. I sincerely hope that he will not show up to class still half-drunk from the night before, or hire a stripper for his buddies, or live in a "pig house" where the front yard is covered in debris and trash.

If my son were to behave as many of the Duke lacrosse players did - as the frat boys and prep school kids did at my alma mater - I'd be the first to tell him that his behavior was inappropriate and downright foolish. If he gets booted out of his academy for a serious infraction, he's on his own dime for his college tuition.

And I'm not certain that, aside from the financial hit, these three lax players will be hurting career-wise. The Old Boy Network of their peers will enfold them, protect them, and get them six-figure jobs on Wall Street. It's the way their world works.

Posted by Katrina on April 12, 2007 09:31 AM

It seems that most people have missed the biggest obstacle to the "racist white boy" theory that has been assumed in this case. According to this theory the Duke lacrosse team members are racists by their very nature yet, for some unknown reason, these men decided to hire a BLACK stripper to perform in a sexually provocative display

Why would ANY racist group hire a stripper that is a member of a race that these people despise? One would expect that a white racist man would hire WHITE women to perform in a sexually stimulating nature. After all, who wants to see a naked women of an inferior race "strutting her stuff"? How would that be sexuality stimulating to ANY racist? It wouldn't, and that really destroys the "racist" theory now, doesn't it?

Posted by Ray on April 12, 2007 09:40 AM

The reaction of the Duke faculty doesn't surprise me in the least. I left academia a couple of years after 9/11 by which time I had had more than enough of the groupthink mentality that permeates its entire structure. I actually overheard fellow professors blaming the US for the attacks on the fateful day itself... These people are without compassion; they are either ruthless because they are tenured intellectual bullies, or else they are silent while awaiting their chance to receive tenure and become intellectual bullies themselves... In a word: a revolting parody of humanity...

Posted by Paul on April 12, 2007 09:45 AM

What an interesting discussion. The MSM provided the momentum that allowed all of the players (not just the accused) in this fiasco to receive their Warhol Moment. Like so much of what happens today, we become victims of the 24-hour news cycle until it becomes impossible to escape. When talking heads interview other talking heads to fill a time slot, and that then becomes news for other talking heads, the snowball has begun to roll. Duke University, Mike Nifong and everyone else involved in this tragic mess (excluding the accused) forgot the price of racing with fame and will be burned by the final cost. Just rewards for forgetting the rule of law. Enjoy the heat, you have earned it.

Posted by Benny on April 12, 2007 09:48 AM

Topper nails it.

It's time for everyone, alumni in particular, to stop sending money to the majority of our colleges and universities and to also take the time to let them know why the dollars have been shut off.

The higher education realm in this country operates with impunity granted by the continuing flow of dollars. Duke will heave to, so will the others, when they learn that they can no longer budget for the millions that automatically flow their way each year.

My husband is a graduate of Lawrence University. In the hands of its ballet dancer and new president, supported by its majority of radical professors, a once superior university is as far left as it gets. Reading the Lawrence magazine is on the same par as the writing of the Duke professors.

Shut off the dollars.

Posted by JC Dorchester on April 12, 2007 09:51 AM

Topper nails it.

It's time for everyone, alumni in particular, to stop sending money to the majority of our colleges and universities and to also take the time to let them know why the dollars have been shut off.

The higher education realm in this country operates with impunity granted by the continuing flow of dollars. Duke will heave to, so will the others, when they learn that they can no longer budget for the millions that automatically flow their way each year.

My husband is a graduate of Lawrence University. In the hands of its ballet dancer and new president, supported by its majority of radical professors, a once superior university is as far left as it gets. Reading the Lawrence magazine is on the same par as the writing of the Duke professors.

Shut off the dollars.

Posted by JC Dorchester on April 12, 2007 09:52 AM

Katrina, your anecdotes are totally irrelevant to the case at hand. The issue is simple: are the charges true or not and did the DA take some illegal shortcuts to make himself look good? No and yes. Period.

Posted by sestamibi on April 12, 2007 09:54 AM

Katrina, once again you display your bigoted opinion of southern white men. You take a few instances of what you believe are racist activities and displays and, through association, assign a racist label to most, if not all, southern white college students. That's very biased, don't you think?

Here's an analogy that even a college graduate like yourself should be able to understand:

I live in a large metropolitan area that has a sizable black community. Several members of that community use drugs and are affiliated with criminal gangs like the Crips and the Bloods. If I use your "guilt by association" method of determining the social nature of this community, I can only come to the conclusion that most, if not all, black men are drug addicted gang bangers and that most, if not all, black women are crack whores.

Tell me, would I be correct in this conclusion?

Posted by Ray on April 12, 2007 09:58 AM

I watched the 9News coverage of the dismissals last night and they STILL were blurring the face of the liar accuser, Crystal Gail Mangum, as though she was a victim who needed the protection.

Her mugshot was all over DRUDGE yesterday and is out there, but not shown anywhere else. Yet these boys had their mugshots posted all over the world for a year, being labled as racist rapists.

What's fair about that?

If the major media doesn't excoriate her as widely as they did the boys she accused then they are continuing the prosecution of the true victims, the boys and letting the criminal, Crystal Mangum, off the hook. It disgusts me.

I've not seen this morning's Rocky yet, but if her face doesn't get the same publication as the boys' faces did in the Rocky a year ago then the RMN is just as biased, unethical and conspiring to cook up "whitey" as Crystal Gail Mangum was.

Posted by Mikey G on April 12, 2007 09:58 AM

Katrina,

Nice anecdotes, your 20 year old stories certainly prove your point about the racism prevalent in elite southern universities today, as well as your own virtue. Congratulations.

As we all know, this sort of behavior is much more deplorable when exhibited by rich white guys playing white guy sports at southern schools. That's probably why this story didn't get quite the play nationally that the Duke story did. Notice that the race of the accuser and accused are not mentioned. Hint, guess why the Rev's Jackson and Sharpton are not involved.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/ncaa/04/06/gophers.allegations.ap/index.html

Noticed you didn't comment on the "Listening Statement".

Posted by Tom from LA on April 12, 2007 10:05 AM

Katrina, etc. I think a point is being overlooked.

Railroading three innocent kids because of historical racism will not cure that racism. That is just "affirmative action" spun out of control. As such it would have only served to entrench the incipient racism that many white kids today need to shake off as they enter adulthood.

The situation for the descendants of African slaves in America has never been better and it continues to improve. And, while we would like to speed up the pace of those improvements, let's not ignore what's been accomplished.

In my opinion, a significant number of Duke faculty members either deliberately chose to put their political agenda ahead of justice - or they have a dangerously flawed definition of the term. In either case, an accounting needs to be made.

Posted by Voolfie on April 12, 2007 10:05 AM

Ray,

Well, I guess you didn't read my post above to carefully. In the first anecdote, it was a woman who was a racist - and in the second case, it was an unknown person who plastered the insulting posters all over my dorm.

I wonder why you feel the need to cast white men in a "victim" class? I certainly don't hate them - I married a nice white Southern gentleman from Washington and Lee University from exactly the class and group I speak of. His family attends/attended schools like W&L, Sewanee, UVA, and Duke - and they belong to fraternities, social organizations, and the like which nurture, protect and look out for one another.

I simply think that the majority of people who read this website don't have access to this type of world - the upper-class white world of cotillions, white-only fraternities, internships and country clubs - that serve to nurture and protect members from "Yankee ideas".

How do I deal with these people? Well, I remember the good about them - their friendliness, hospitality, and warmth. I raised my children to be very different people than their Southern cousins, who behave as many of the Duke lacrosse players do at their colleges.

And, when it gets too unbearable, I remind myself that all those venerable statues of Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson down South are really only second-place trophies.

Posted by Katrina on April 12, 2007 10:14 AM

As a proud North Carolina native I have always been curious about the bitter Duke - North Carolina rivalry. The "any team but Duke" sentiment was prevalent especially from one of their closest neighbors UNC Chapel Hill. In my eyes, Duke was a good NC school. My eyes were opened wide and sentiment changed this past fall when my daughter and I took a campus tour at Duke. (She has a 4.1 GPA and wanted to go to Duke until we moved West) Even though we now live in Oregon I encouraged her to check out the great schools in NC. Duke was at the top of the list. At the end of the campus tour the Duke tour guide (a student) bragged that Duke was not really a "Southern school". He also boasted that most of the students were not from the South; he was apologizing to us that Duke was located in North Carolina! "The majority of Duke students are from New England and don't worry, living on campus was not like living in a typical Southern town". His attitude as a Duke representative was hard to beleive! The campus map, glossy brochure, and school applications were tossed in the trash can as we returned to our car that day. She crossed Duke off the list.

Duke showed it's true colors to us in a 2 hour tour and my poor opinion of the school was bolstered by their actions over the past year. President Broadhead and his band of 88 threw 3 young men under the bus with no conscious. 3 men that were as passionate about being at Duke as my daughter was prior to our visit. Sadly, these men paid dearly to be there. The Duke leaders lack of support for them showed they don't care about the individual students just their own liberal agendas. They don't deserve to have my daughter in their classrooms or on their campus and I am pleased to say they don't have my money in their bank account. I understand what "any team but Duke" is all about now. She will be Davidson Wildcat this fall!

Posted by steadycash on April 12, 2007 10:19 AM

There will hopefully be a decade of civil lawsuits: libel, slander, and defamation against the NY Times, Durham newspapers, Duke University, the infamous "88" and those students who participated in the nazi-style leaflets against the athletes.

Those lawsuits should occur in parallel with suits against Duke, the President, and the Board for violation of due process. All of those entities should have the opportunity to support these athletes lavishly through their working lives.

Duke needs to pay for the matriculation of these athletes at any university of their choice, and for their graduate education ... preferably in law.

Doug R.

The potential plaintiffs include not only the 3 who were accused, but the entire team and their families.

Posted by Doug R on April 12, 2007 10:22 AM

Katrina,

Interesting that you married into a nice white Southern racist family. Glad you raised your children not to be like their Southern cousins though. Maybe they'll turn out like the the accused Duke players anyway, after all, the players are from NY, NJ, and Maryland.

Posted by Tom from LA on April 12, 2007 10:27 AM

What a lame strawman, Katrina -- did you actually graduate? Nothing in the Heinous 88 Progrom against these innocent boys obviates the need for these same Heinous 88 to publish an absolute apology in every publication they reached out to initially, and also offer to pay for the massive amount of money these families expended to prove their sons' innocence. In fact, I think that money should be withheld from the paychecks of the Heinous 88.

Posted by Neil on April 12, 2007 10:37 AM

OK, fine, enough anecdotes about my life at a Grand Old Southern Unniversity. I just don't see many of my peers speaking out (with the exception of Tom Wolfe) speaking out about this life of white privilege and "how it really works."

Here are my points:

#1. The Duke faculty letter, if you care to actually read it, is NOT about the lacrosse team incident, except peripherally. It is about on-campus racism and the experiences that their African-American students endure on a daily basis.

Vincent Carroll spins the letter in today's column in a direction it was never intended to point. The Duke faculty, whom I imagine to be fed up and frustrated by the actions of a select group of students on their campus, point out the hostile climate their African-American students are encountering as they work toward their educational goals.

#2. The Duke lacrosse team had been acting in such a disgraceful, disgusting manner as college students (read news accounts) that the possibility that they had actually committed gang rape was not so far-fetched. Read their neighbors' accounts, their classmates' accounts of how they held near-nightly parties, littered the yard and street with bottles and vomit and then threatened those neighbors who dared to complain.

No doubt Nifong committed reprehensible acts - and he'll be disbarred - but these were no innocent lambs led to slaughter. They were, more to the point, living like pigs. Their coach was fired because of this behavior, and the total lack of discipline his players showed.

#3 - I have absolutely no doubt that these three lacrosse players will be just fine in a year or two, tenderly looked after by their Duke alumni brethren who will find them comfortable jobs and a cold cocktail at the end of the day.

Posted by Katrina on April 12, 2007 10:39 AM

In response to Katrina,the self described middle aged white sorority woman, who claims that the author doesn't have the moral authority to write about this because he didn't attend Duke, UVA, or Ole Miss.....

Well, I did attend Ole Miss and my oldest Daughter graduates with honors from the Ole Miss Honors College in a few weeks. And I can honestly say I would much rather her attend a school like Ole Miss than any IVY league school or other school in this country. She attends a school where young ladies are treated with respect and her many black friends that attend Ole Miss are treated with the same respect as their growing percentage in the student body accurately reflects.

Miss Katrina totally misses the point of the absolute miscarriage of justice in this case because she chooses to close her eyes and stroll down the stereotypical path of rationalization that prescribes to the theory that because nad things happened in the past or because it is plausible to think they could happen today it is okay to act as judge and jury without the benefit of thoughtful examination....that is of course as long as the falsely accused are white and male!

Posted by on April 12, 2007 10:42 AM

Katrina,
I am merely pointing out your fallacy of assigning a label to groups of people when humans, by their very nature, are individuals with their own needs, ideals, and beliefs. You have a tendency to label most southerners as racists, you posts leave very little doubt about that, without considering the fact that any group, race, religion, or other demographic designation will always contain members that are racists, bigots, criminals, etc. You are judging an entire group of people based upon the actions of a few. That is unfair. It is also unrealistic.

To assume that most members of any group are similar in their character and disposition due to the beliefs and actions of a few members of that group implies bigotry as it ignores the individuality of people and their beliefs and that leads to false assumptions like we have see in this case.

People are inherently individualistic and we need to understand and accept that fact. Only then will bigotry be eliminated from any society. Only then will true equality exist.

Posted by Ray on April 12, 2007 10:45 AM

Katrina's clearly a bigot; how can anyone expect her to see the bigotry of others?

Posted by Susie on April 12, 2007 10:50 AM

EXACTLY Tom,
Katrina's racism and bigotry are so pervasive, she has to ignore the facts and call the Duke lacrosse players Southern racists, when they are all Mid-Atlantic or Northeasterners. Katrina's post are typical of today's college graduates, who are indoctrinated with white guilt and the patronizing racism of affirmative action. There are certainly some white power racists out there, but we can dismiss them easily for the bigoted hate mongers they are. The more virulent and more difficult to identify racists are those liberal whites who believe that blacks in the US today cannot survive without the protection of their liberal white betters. These liberal white racists feel affirmative action and other set aside programs are necessary because blacks are not capable of getting ahead on their own. Ultimately, the deception is necessary for them to assuage their white guilt, because in their hearts they are racist and feel superior to those poor downtrodden blacks who need their help to survive. This type of racism is far more insidious than any of the overt white power racism.

Posted by maxxjd on April 12, 2007 10:50 AM

Everyone involved in persecuting these 3 young men should be ashamed but the university where they were all students holds the most shame and guilt. What happened to the presumption of innocence until proven guilty?? These 88 aging hippy professors wanted blood and an opportunity to bloviate about social justice and racial equality. But, they did so at the expense of 3 fine young men whose lives are now ruined due to their rush to judgment LONG before the facts were in. I wonder how they sleep at night knowing they played a big part in ruining their lives

Posted by BETH on April 12, 2007 10:51 AM

Maybe a little off point here, but has anybody else felt while watching this case play out in the media that in this country, justice is only available to those of great means? I believed it before and this case confirmed it for me.

What would have happened if those guys had not come from wealthy families? Me thinks they'd be sitting in prison cells. Public defenders are too busy and lack the resources to defend people to the extent needed to expose the lack of evidence in this case.

Each of the families spent well over $1 million on the defense of their sons. Think we've heard the last of this? The lawsuits should be starting soon and the possible targets are many.

While I'm certainly not intimately knowledgeable of all the facts of the case, it seems the message needs to get out that intentionally falsely accusing somebody of rape is nearly as bad as actually being raped. Both ruin lives. Both deserve harsh punishment.

As for misconduct of the DA, it is obvious that he deserves to pay for this and I suspect he will.

As for the Duke faculty, why is anybody surprised at their actions in an atmosphere where the cause is more important than the facts? While Katrina may be right about the atmosphere on this campus, the discussion should have been on the facts pertinent to this case, not the cause which the faculty wanted to promote.

In a case made for media ratings, this story had the elements of race, class, sex, and partying. It's no wonder that those with an agenda could not wait to suspend the presumption of innocence until facts were known.

Posted by on April 12, 2007 10:55 AM

As loathsome as the 88 professors are, an even worse culprit (perhaps THE worst after Nifong) is Duke President Richard Brodhead.

Cancel the rugby season, because of a false and totally unsupported accusation of rape? Fire the rugby coach?

What a spineless, unprincipled, & appeasement-oriented little man.

Why do the Duke alumni put up with this sleazeball? He should be fired ASAP.

Posted by BullMoose on April 12, 2007 10:56 AM

Katrina:
Since your experience in the South was so bad, why didn't you return North where you felt more at home and comfortable.
Instead, you have the attitude of many Californians who come to Colorado to escape and then start trying to change Colorado into another California. You come across like a loser and a busybody.

Posted by Jack on April 12, 2007 11:01 AM

I have only one thing to say about Nifong, Brodhead, and The Duke 88. "screw em and sue em"

Posted by Nick on April 12, 2007 11:02 AM

--------------

Interesting that you married into a nice white Southern racist family. Glad you raised your children not to be like their Southern cousins though. Maybe they'll turn out like the the accused Duke players anyway, after all, the players are from NY, NJ, and Maryland.

--------------

Ouch.

Posted by Matt on April 12, 2007 11:10 AM

I think it's all George Bush's fault.

Posted by Geof on April 12, 2007 11:13 AM

Hey Matt,
____________________________________________

My son (an 18-y.o. senior) just accepted a Congressional nomination to a service academy. I hope he behaves as an honorable, intelligent man - not as a drunken, indolent lout as these "boys" were wont to do. I sincerely hope that he will not show up to class still half-drunk from the night before, or hire a stripper for his buddies, or live in a "pig house" where the front yard is covered in debris and trash.

If my son were to behave as many of the Duke lacrosse players did - as the frat boys and prep school kids did at my alma mater - I'd be the first to tell him that his behavior was inappropriate and downright foolish. If he gets booted out of his academy for a serious infraction, he's on his own dime for his college tuition.

_______________________________________________

Need a Band-Aid???

Posted by on April 12, 2007 11:17 AM

Katrina,

I feel sorry for your son. I'm suprised you haven't guilted him into giving up his spot at the military academy to some poor minority.

Posted by Michelle on April 12, 2007 11:28 AM

Maybe it was the 88 that dirty skank slut got it on with. They found semen from 3 different guys in her......her homies, I bet.

Posted by Clem on April 12, 2007 11:29 AM

Can a lawyer comment here ? Since the Group of 88 publicly proclamed the student athletes guilty - and did so as faculty not just as private citizens.. Haven't they left Duke University open for a massive civil lawsuit claim for damages incurred due to their false statements. I can't beleive any university would be so stupid to allow their name to be used for running vigilante justice. Given the country knows these kids names and association to Rape. .. I would expect the university to be on the receiving end of an 8 or 9 digit long claim for damages. The university president should be fired for his role in allowing the institution to incur such an enormous legal liability on his watch. - cmon isn't the issue really over a $50 million claim for damages.

Posted by Lucy Fer on April 12, 2007 11:32 AM

Katrina,

I'm so happy you've managed to overcome the ugliness of some parts of your college experience. Obviously, you've put it all behind you.

I, too, attended a major university in the Deep South, and while I never experienced the types of things you describe, I had my own "moment of ugliness."

Every day, when I run my tongue across the backs of my two (false) front teeth, I'm reminded of that one night, in 1989, when I had my face kicked in by a mob of "youths" from a nearby housing project in Athens, GA.

My only crime was being white and walking alone at night in the wrong place, at the wrong time, or so I assume, because I still had $90 in cash in my pocket when I woke up in the hospital.

I hope someday to show the kind of wisdom and perspective you do now.

Posted by Kenneth on April 12, 2007 11:48 AM

"If my son were to behave as many of the Duke lacrosse players did - as the frat boys and prep school kids did at my alma mater - I'd be the first to tell him that his behavior was inappropriate and downright foolish."

Apparently you attended the party and personally witnessed the behavior of the men that were present as you seem to know just what transpired there. Why, then, did you not offer to testify as to the behavior of the three men accused in a crime? Why, then, did you remain silent?

Could it be that you are you basing your OPINION of what transpired there by comparing this situation with incidences that you have witnessed in the past? Could it be that you are mentally substituting this party, which you did not attend, with those you attended at another place and time? Some, like me, would call that projection.

Posted by Ray on April 12, 2007 11:58 AM

Most news outlets are now talking about this case in terms of one of two paradigms: 1) race, or 2) a district attorney run amok.

In truth this case is really about gender.

It's about the the society at large -- the police, the DA, the State of North Carolina, the Duke university faculty, and the news media -- all instantly believing the unsubstantiated lies of a woman, and then puirposely covering up exonerating evidence, simply because...well.. simply because the accuser was a woman. This country has a major problem with gender, and it's a problem that you'll never hear about in the Women's Studies Department at Duke.

The problem is that anytime a woman accuses a man of anything -- whether it be rape, or domestic violence, or whatever the charges might be -- the state, the legal system and nearly everyone else involved declares the defendants guilty until proven innocent. Rape shield laws combined with this "woman equals good, man equals bad" mentality combine to allow liars like Crytal Mangum to ruin the lives of innocent men with virtual impunity.

Fortunately, in this particular case, the defendants had enough resources to eventually exonerate themselves. Unfortunately, this case is merely representative of what happens to men every day in our nation's family courts , in our national media, and on our nation's campuses. In thsese other cases many men do not have the resources these three young men did. In these other cases, men are serving time behind bars for crimes they never committed, they are being separated and alienated from their children, and in general they are having their civil rights abrogated by a system which only ever believes the testimony of women. Even women who, as in this case, are proven liars and have no evidence to back up their allegations.

Posted by Ken Sommers on April 12, 2007 12:02 PM

By any standard, the N.C. Attorney General has done well to restore justice to the judicial system. However, Mr. Cooper must be pressed to explain more thoroughly why criminal charges will not be brought against Crystal Gail Mangum. Certainly the shame of all this will forever be associated with her name, and rightly so. But that alone as a punishment is a long way from being commensurate with her crime. Justice demands her prosecution.

Posted by Terry Shapiro on April 12, 2007 12:04 PM

Gary B.-what a girlie man you are.

And Katrina is no doubt one of the trained seals that sits and watches Rosie O. every day laughing and applauding every hateful, bizarre thing she says.

Posted by Octavio on April 12, 2007 12:06 PM

Katarina so callously dismisses the personal agony these young men went through Her argument: After all, they will be fine in a year. Implied: "They" don't feel things like other people (people like us). They are pigs, so what if they suffered. Just pigs, lived like pigs. My God, how often have people of color been described like this--they "live like pigs." Can't she see--she has become what she claims to despise.

Posted by M. A. George on April 12, 2007 12:09 PM

Well, Katrina, our son's at UVA and pledged a Fraternity. And before you label me a Redneck or typical southerner I live near Boston, MA.
The Fraternity is not "all white". This "privileged white male envornment" is 55-56% women.
You should have attended a feminist Northern college like Boston University where almost 67% are women--wonder where the men are?
President John Silber described it as " a damned Matriarchy."
Perhaps you should have attended there?

Posted by Bill James on April 12, 2007 12:15 PM


From the News-Observer (a local N.C. paper) April 2006, a description of the Duke neighborhood where these "poor young men" lived:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
At the time of the gang-rape allegations, many in Trinity Park were at their wits' end with raucous and boorish Duke students displaying increasingly recalcitrant and mocking attitudes.

Drunken partiers urinated on neighbors' houses. Music blared at all hours. Trinity Park lawns were littered with beer bottles and huge plastic cups. The commotion often jolted neighbors awake well past midnight.

In the neighborhood and at Duke, many speculate that the legal fallout from the lacrosse team party has had a quieting effect on some of the louder and brasher partiers.

One of those was the single-story house at 610 N. Buchanan Blvd. that three lacrosse team captains shared last spring.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

If this description from a local paper isn't that of a group of students "living like pigs", I don't know what it is.

The news reports about the lacrosse house are numerous, and so are those interviews with neighbors who were threatened with physical harm when they attempted to stop these "sons of privilege" from destroying their neighborhood.

Honestly, if my son lived like this - behaved like this - I just don't know what I'd do. I cannot understand the people who excuse this type of misbehavior - do you condone this in your own children?

Posted by Katrina on April 12, 2007 12:20 PM

Whoa! Recalcitrant mockers! Loud music and urination! Must be rapists!

Posted by Tom from LA on April 12, 2007 12:25 PM

Of course noone would condone this behavior but it still doesn't justify trying to ruin the lives of these young men.

I hope to god your son doesn't find himself in a situation as these lacrosse players were in.

Posted by Michelle on April 12, 2007 12:26 PM

Ken Sommers,

You're right about this being a case of gender discrimination against the men involved. That's why you'll hear all kinds of disparaging remarks about the inappropriate "loutish" behavior of a bunch of drunk frat boys yet will rarely hear any disparaging remarks about the inappropriate behavior of the women who willful disrobed and performed sexually lurid acts for money. I would call hat inappropriate behavior as well yet these women are portrayed as victims of rich white punks run amok.

No one forced these women to strip, they did so of their own free will and accepted money for acting in behavior that most women would find demeaning. Where's the outrage for this behavior?

Posted by Ray on April 12, 2007 12:28 PM

Tom - would you want to live next door to these jerks?

And these neighbors - whose car windows were smashed, lawns unirated and vomited on and who received threatening notes and phone calls at 2 a.m. after reporting this - are quoted in many sources as feeling helpless when trying to stop this behavior.

No, acting like a stupid, selfish jerk night after night with your buddies isn't tantamount to rape. But these boys (I won't call them men) weren't poor innocents - they had a long history of "screw you" attitudes towards their neighbors and the police, and when the gang rape allegation was made their previous behavior made it a bit more credible.

Oh, and the non-student neighbors were originally residing in a quiet neighborhood - and Duke University bought 15 houses smack in the middle of their enclave after they closed down and cleaned out a group of fraternity houses. This was following some pretty awful (and well-publicized) injuries and alcohol-fueled deaths on campus.

So, sure, Tom, invite the local boys from USC or UCLA to buy the house next door. Hope you enjoy their nocturnal brand of "fertilizer".

Posted by Katrina on April 12, 2007 12:36 PM

Katrina,
You're basing your opinion of these men on what was reported in the local paper? That's not a very reliable source now, is it? Don't you think that any newspaper report report just may be a bit biased?

Tell me, did the reporter attend the party or is that reporter basing this report on what someone else said had transpired? I would hardly base my opinion on second or third hand accounts as you normally find in local newspapers but feel free to do so if you wish. Since I did not attend they party I can make no determination as to what transpired. I have no opinion as to the behavior of the attendees and can draw no conclusions as to what actually occurred.

Newspapers do not make good witnesses and that is why you never see the New York Times Sunday paper, for example, being summited as evidence in a criminal case such as rape.

Posted by Ray on April 12, 2007 12:42 PM

At least the lacrosse players should have a viable slander and libel claim against Duke's faculty, and, one may hope, against Duke itself.

Posted by justanotherlawyer on April 12, 2007 12:43 PM

This is just great! I have scrimmped and saved for 16 years so my son would have the chance I never did. The chance for my son to go to an Ivy League school. He wanted Duke, I agreed to Duke and now all of this. I guess I knew once the charges were made. We will have to talk tonight and make a different decision.

Posted by OldSarg on April 12, 2007 12:48 PM

Michelle -

Say what you will about my mothering - who knows? My son just might discover he really, really loves drinking himself blind, neglecting his education, and acting like a total jackass next year when he's at the academy. (I kind of doubt it, though.... just as I sincerely doubt I'll ever be coughing up big $$$$ for his legal defense.)

These boys didn't have their lives ruined by some evil outside force - the gang rape accusation was viewed in light of their immature selfish behavior, and their protestations of innocence were viewed with a lot more skepticism by law enforcement.

Reading the Duke faculty letter, reading the accounts of the neighbors - I see the lacrosse team as a bunch of privileged drunken jerks who got away with so much for so long, they considered themselves damn near invincible.If I were teaching at Duke, I'd have hated having one of those kids in my class.

Posted by Katrina on April 12, 2007 12:49 PM

"So, sure, Tom, invite the local boys from USC or UCLA to buy the house next door. Hope you enjoy their nocturnal brand of "fertilizer".
Posted by Katrina on April 12, 2007 12:36 PM"

I own my own house and rent two rooms to two college MEN who attend the local university here. I have not witnessed any behavior that I would consider inappropriate or disrespectful to myself or my girl friend. I actually find my tenets to be polite and respectful to myself and others. So I would be happy to have any college guy living next door to me.

BTW, what about the numerous college girls that spend most of spring break in Florida dunk and posing topless for just about anyone that walks by? Ever hear of Girls Gone Wild? Those are ALL college women, are they not?

Posted by Ray on April 12, 2007 12:49 PM

Yeah I never get it. Why do we normal conservatives send our kids to this left wing nutty colleges? i don't get.

The 88 should be fired.

Posted by Craig Burt on April 12, 2007 12:50 PM

Katrina (and like minded bigots):

Your posts demonstrate that you don't even begin to "get it". You write that:

My son (an 18-y.o. senior) just accepted a Congressional nomination to a service academy. I hope he behaves as an honorable, intelligent man - not as a drunken, indolent lout as these "boys" were wont to do.
___

If you examine the facts in the case, there is NO EVIDENCE that these boys were drunk or behaved in an indolent, loutish fashion. In fact, at least one boy provided hard evidence (with cell phone and ATM records) that he LEFT THE PARTY WHEN THE STRIPPERS ARRIVED. And yet you continue to slander him here, as many do.

You and those like you who want to believe the worst about these boys are the real bigots and racists here.

Posted by Marcos on April 12, 2007 12:53 PM

hey katrina all 3 of the white players wer from the Northeast like Boston and New York.

With most liberals like you facts just don;t matter.

As long as somebody is white they need pay right?

I swear these days of Politically correct liberals and Multicultural marxist are the last days of freedom for us. They already banned convservatives from speaking in the media and college campuses.

Posted by Craig Burt on April 12, 2007 12:53 PM

"Reading the Duke faculty letter, reading the accounts of the neighbors - I see the lacrosse team as a bunch of privileged drunken jerks who got away with so much for so long, they considered themselves damn near invincible.If I were teaching at Duke, I'd have hated having one of those kids in my class.
Posted by Katrina on April 12, 2007 12:49 PM"

And there it is, bigotry in it's most blatant form.

You are condemning the entire lacrosse team, as well as all "frat boys", by what someone else states as fact, by someone else's opinion. You do not personally know any of these men and you have not witnessed any of their supposed behavior. You only have second hand accounts and second hand opinions as concerning the character of these men yet you condemn them all. You are judging them without even knowing anything about them. Thar's pure bigotry.

Posted by Ray on April 12, 2007 01:01 PM

Katrina,

For someone as enlightened as yourself, it seems a bit illiberal of you to think that loud and obnoxious partying is a good excuse to prejudge them of rape. In my neighborhood there are many persons of diversity driving around blasting "music" with lyrics apparently written by Don Imus. According to your standards, if any of them were arrested and charged with gang raping some white woman, it would be perfectly understandable to assume their guilt.

It does not matter that Duke lax players are not innocents, just that they were innocent of the crime they were accused of but prejudged by good people like yourself because of their race and socio-economic class.

Posted by Tom from LA on April 12, 2007 01:09 PM

Ray, I'd save my tears and protestations for a more worthy cause.

Here's an experiment: Google the terms "duke lacrosse neighbors" and you'll get 140,000 'hits' - everyone from the News-Observer to FOX news has reported on how bad and out of control the Duke lacrosse team was, and how vile their behavior was.

One hundred and forty thousand hits, Ray. Even Fox News, for crying out loud! At which point are you going to stop your "willing suspension of disbelief?" There are police reports aplenty to back the allegations about out-of-control partying. Or are the local cops (as well as the media) "bigots" and "judgemental"?

I wonder how those parents feel - whose pocketbooks are now a million dollars lighter and whose son's loutish behavior made the allegations of date rape so believable. I wonder if they ever visited their kids' house and saw the unspeakably filthy conditions they lived in. I wonder how they felt when they read their son's email that described "skinning" a stripper (Google it, Ray). I wonder if they ever felt a tiny, tiny bit of guilt for raising a boy who refused to act like a responsible adult.

Jeez, I thought that it was liberals like me who excuse the behavior of screwups. Aren't we supposed to be anti-military libertines hellbent on destroying morality?

Posted by Katrina on April 12, 2007 01:15 PM

The college campus, especially the elite Ivy League schools, are the true last bastions of the radical left. How any normal, rational parent could spend $50k a year sending their kid to a school whose professors openly advocate socialism, Marxism, anti-capitalism, anti-religion, "multiculturalism" (which is just a nice fuzzy term that really means hating America and western civilation), "social justice", etc. is beyond me.

I will never ever ever send my kid to a school run by the true enemies of freedom -- our leftist professors. The Duke lacrosse players were merely the pawns of the Duke leftists in getting their fascist, hateful point across.

Posted by deathtosocialism on April 12, 2007 01:16 PM

Here's the biggest problem with this miscarriage of justice:

A large number of people; from the "88" to the MSM, from race-baiters to white-haters, millions of supposedly reasonable people made an immediate judgment as to the guilt of these men and to the character of the entire lacrosse team using nothing more than tales of innuendo and supposition. Long before ANY facts were determined, millions of people assume the worst and claimed that these men were guilty and that they are all a bunch of drunk racists that deserves anything that happens to them. So many were willing to believe the worst and some still refuse to accept the obvious fact that these men are innocent.

This is a disturbing account of blatant bigotry, but that bigotry is not directed to the woman that made false accusations on innocent men. No, that bigotry was aimed directly at white men simply because this alleged crime was at a southern college. What's the message so many seem to believe? Rich White Elite Southerners Are All Racists!

Posted by Ray on April 12, 2007 01:22 PM

Ok -- here is the $100,000 question: Where can a parent send their kid to college these days without having their kid infected by the aging hippie socialist professors' long-failed ideas?

Help!!!!!!

Posted by deathtosocialism on April 12, 2007 01:25 PM

The one thing I really like about France is that they have a law that basically says if you knowingly falsley accuse someone of a crime, the penatly that that person who was accussed of will now be your punishement. In other words, you falsely accuse of rape, then that is the time you will face for the false accussation.

Katrina, one thing that bothers me in what your saying is that this woman purposely and falsely accussed these men of a hineous crime. You sound almost disappointed in that they were not guilty and that they will get on their golden lives like it never happened. That is not how they sounded at the press conference. Justice should be blind to race and power, but it wasn't, it targeted these guys because of their race and power.
This woman should be charged with her crime. She should not be defended at all.

Posted by FatEz on April 12, 2007 01:29 PM

Katrina acting immature is no even close to being a rapist. If you think that, then every person that has been raped should despise you for comparing that torture to being an annoying neighbor that plays music too loud. Of course you're a liberal and white privaledged people that get accused are guilty, jsut because of who they are. That is one of the most judgemental thoughts, I've ever heard. I suppose you think becasue you area liberal you cant be judgemental, but you have proven yourself a hypocrite and more judgemental than people like don Imus.

Posted by Randall on April 12, 2007 01:32 PM

Gosh, you're right - Ray, Tom et al.

Those Duke lacrosse players were no doubt exemplary students, models for all youth, who were caught in a web spun by corrupt local law enforcement, a ruthless D.A., and a lying stripper.

So - (I have to go back to working on a project of mine, which involves a complex mathematical model that just finished running) - I'll stop posting and do the following to make myself feel soothed:

Reread Vincent Carroll's column about how the Duke faculty are a bunch of intolerant liberal pinheads,

Disregard the voluminous stack of past police reports regarding the house where the events of March 13 unfolded,

Ignore the neighbors' complains about violent threats and intimidations from the lacrosse players after reporting loud drunken parties,

Disregard the infamous email sent by the lacrosse player immediately after the party in which he describes desiring to get another stripper and skin her alive,

Dismiss the complaints from Duke faculty and staff about how nothing is being done, nothing is changing for the good regarding lacrosse team behavior,

Blame it all on the huge, awful conspiracy against rich white men of privilege.

Raise my son to behave just like a Duke lacrosse player.

Yep, that sounds about right.

Posted by Katrina on April 12, 2007 01:37 PM

Katrina, you are such a bigot. You use google hits and MSM reports as a means to justify you're biased opinion of the character of these men, yet you still do not know ANYTHING about them!

Did fox news, for example, do a background check on any of these men? Did fox news, for example, find criminal charges in these men's past that would support a charge of racism? Did fox news' for example, interview the men in question? Did fox news, for example talk to the family of these men? Did fox news, for example, show anything anything these men did in the past that would tend support the assumption of bad behavior? Do any of these supposed "reports" prove anything at all? NO! All you have is innuendo and supposition.

I'd love for you to take the results of a google search into court and try to present it as evidence as to the character of ANY suspect. The judge would throw it out before it could even be presented. Get this straight: innuendo and supposition are NOT facts and prove NOTHING, but don't let that get in the way of your condemnation of these white boys! After all, facts and proof mean very little to bigots.

Posted by Ray on April 12, 2007 01:39 PM

Katrina,

I hope you use the same logic and tell all you're female friends and family members NEVER to demean themselves and strip for cash. After all, you'll never know if they will be stripping for a bunch of drunk bigots and will get raped, right?

Stop blaming the men in this. These men are INNOCENT and you need to realize that the woman LIED and, because she was black, far too many people were so willing to believe her despite any evidence to back up her claim. These men are not to blame. The only one who should be blamed here is the woman who filed false charges. Any attempt to blame and demonize the men is nothing more that a refusal to accept the obvious: a lot of people are bigoted against white people, including fellow whites.

Posted by Ray on April 12, 2007 01:50 PM

The 88 are members of an emotional lynch party. They look into mirrors that do not reflect anything that is just and worthwhile in our culture. They believe only in firing squads. There is no necessity for a trial. All they do is contribute to the destruction of this country. It will be a good time in the old time again when these 60-nothings die off.

Posted by ChiefTestPilot on April 12, 2007 01:59 PM

One more question for you Katrina,

Since you understand logic and mathematics and can create and use complex calculations see if you can solve this enigma for me:

How can a bunch of drunks who go to class with hangovers perform a physically strenuous activity like lacrosse and, not only play without injury to themselves, actually win championships? If these men spend most of their time drinking and carousing as you believe, how do they stay physically and mentally fit?

Lacrosse is a very demanding sport and these men would have to be at the top of their form at all times. So, how can they do that if they're all a bunch of drunks?

Posted by Ray on April 12, 2007 02:04 PM

I think Katrina's son should give up his place at the military academy and give it to a minority. That way Katrina can feel good about herself and her son can pay for past wrongs that he had nothing to do with!

Posted by Michelle on April 12, 2007 02:06 PM

Ray,

Don't use logic with Katrina. She's a die hard liberal and unable to see the hypocracy of her beliefs!

Posted by Michelle on April 12, 2007 02:07 PM

Michael Gustafson is an asst. professor in the Engineering school at Duke. In contrast to the Group of 88 and their fellow travelers, his conduct over the last year as it relates to the Hoax has been admirable.

There are other faculty role models at Duke, as well. Not as many as one might hope--but they exist.

Posted by AMac on April 12, 2007 02:09 PM

Gosh, you're right - Ray, Tom et al.

Those Duke lacrosse players were no doubt exemplary students, models for all youth, who were caught in a web spun by corrupt local law enforcement, a ruthless D.A., and a lying stripper. (No one here is saying that they were exemplary students or models for all youth, but the rest is correct)

So - (I have to go back to working on a project of mine, which involves a complex mathematical model that just finished running) - I'll stop posting and do the following to make myself feel soothed: (Woo, you sound very smart)

Reread Vincent Carroll's column about how the Duke faculty are a bunch of intolerant liberal pinheads. (this time try reading for comprehension)

Disregard the voluminous stack of past police reports regarding the house where the events of March 13 unfolded, (A good idea, since they are irrelevant)

Ignore the neighbors' complains about violent threats and intimidations from the lacrosse players after reporting loud drunken parties, (ditto)

Disregard the infamous email sent by the lacrosse player immediately after the party in which he describes desiring to get another stripper and skin her alive, (another good choice, since Duke apparently came to the same conclusion, that it was a stupid joke)

Dismiss the complaints from Duke faculty and staff about how nothing is being done, nothing is changing for the good regarding lacrosse team behavior, (I must say, I've not seen any such report)

Blame it all on the huge, awful conspiracy against rich white men of privilege. (Nope, just on the prejudices of those all too willing to believe this hookers ever evolving tale)

Raise my son to behave just like a Duke lacrosse player. (Better than raising him to be a bigot)

Yep, that sounds about right.

Posted by on April 12, 2007 02:15 PM

Katrina, I'm sorry, but Ray wins, there is really no debate.
The bottom line is these boys are innocent!! There was NO crime. They were pilleried and railroaded just because they were perceived as rich, white jocks.
The American justice system (and the Duke faculty) should be color blind.
These boys and and their loved ones lost a whole year of their lives, not to mention millions of dollars. If you are interesed in learning more about the "Duke 88." The May 2006 issue of Atlantic Magazine did a great piece on the Duke Faculty. http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200605u/nj_taylor_2006-05-23
Best wishes to your son who will be going to a service academy next year. He will be on the front line defending the freedoms and rights of ALL Americans

Posted by Melissa on April 12, 2007 02:15 PM

Katrina,
I don't know which academy your son will be attending, or is attending. The one I went to, Navy, kind of taught that two things matter in judging a person: facts, and performance. If he utters some of the nonsense you have been spewing he is going to have a long, long four years, if he even lasts that long. I wish him luck, but I think he may have some un-learning to do. Bad show, Mom.

Posted by Richard on April 12, 2007 02:16 PM

Thank you Melissa!

Posted by Ray on April 12, 2007 02:20 PM

How do they do it - party like Falstaff and then run like gazelles? Great question, because lacrosse it a tough, physically demanding sport.

Honestly, I'd attribute it to youth and a relatively young liver chock-full of alcohol dehydrogenase (that's an enzyme that helps breaks down ethanol).

I remember "back in the day" when I could stay out at a frat party until 3 a.m. and easily get up, shower, and make it to an 8 a.m. lecture the next day. Now, I can't even contemplate the consequences.

Ray, you sound like a decent guy. And you (and the others who posted this point) are 110% correct about the woman who was falsely accusing the players of gang rape. She set something in motion that became larger than life, went completely out of control, and cost the taxpayers God only knows how much money.

Remember, I have a son who plays lacrosse; God forbid he would be accused of something like this. We've had a few conversations about date rape and the lifelong consequences of a few bad decisions. I think that every service academy has had a date-rape scandal, and in a few of the cases the women have flat-out lied. I'd hate if he were caught in something like that. I just have to trust that his upbringing (by a secular feminist humanist mother, no less) would keep him out of a mess like that.

This whole episode reeks to me of a three-way collision, in which some privileged white guys, an ambitious D.A., and a woman with severe credibility issues crashed head-on into each other. What a tangled web indeed.

But (to go back to the beginning) Vincent Carroll isn't showing the Duke faculty letter in its true light; he is mischaracterizing the document, which I read as one of frustration at what their university and profession has turned into.

Now, back to work.

Posted by Katrina on April 12, 2007 02:21 PM

Plus,
If your lad is at West Point he will be forced to study the tactics and generalship of that 'loser' (your description was 'second place') TJ Jackson. Not as history, but as strategy. On top of that, as an officer he will lead men and women who are, largely, from the South and Midwest. As I said, he has some un-learning to do. His superiors won't take 'my Mom told me this' as an excuse.

Posted by Richard on April 12, 2007 02:27 PM

As the mother of a fifteen year old son, I am in living fear of people like Katrina.

Posted by Michelle on April 12, 2007 02:33 PM

Katrina, you almost get the point, which is both the woman and the D.A felt that her false accusations would be believed simply because so many people think that the men involved are nothing more than "privileged white guys" and thus deserved to be punished. It doesn't matter if they were guilty or not, they are rich and white and that's enough for a lot of people. That is not how justice works, that's how bigotry works.

I hope that this blatant display of bigotry is discussed over and over again in every classroom across the America. We have absolute proof that bigotry exists in America and, in this case, it is bigotry directed against rich white men. People need to see this for what it was, a case of bigotry and not a criminal case at all.

Posted by Ray on April 12, 2007 02:34 PM

Katrina,

No one is mischaracterizing the Duke faculty letter but you.

"These students are shouting and whispering about what happened to that woman" No, it's not about the "rape", is it?

"To the students speaking individually and to the protestors making collective noise, thank you for not waiting and making yourselves heard" No sense in waiting for all the facts to come in, guilty!

Everybody knows what they were talking about, and it is disingenuous to say otherwise.

Posted by Tom from LA on April 12, 2007 02:44 PM

OK, can't let this go. Here are the 'life lessons' I have taught my son.

#1. Live by the Golden Rule (which, by the way, predates Christianity). Treat your peers, your superiors, and your neighbors with respect and as you would be treated.

#2. Take responsibility for your actions. Don't equivocate, don't lie, and don't write or say things you'd be ashamed of in the future.

#3. Work as hard as possible, and to the absolute best of your ability. Don't make excuses for poor performance, and don't ask me (Mom) to bail you out of a jam.

#4. Be compassionate to those around you. Realize you are living in a great nation whose members enjoy tremendous freedom and opportunity. Not everyone gets the chances that you will in life.

#5. Clean your room, walk the dog, and scrape your plate after you're done eating, for heaven's sake. And keep your feet off my new sofa.

So, what's so fearful and scary and wrong about that?

Because I'm a liberal, I can't raise a respectful, law-abiding son? These aren't good principles for a well-lived life?

Posted by Katrina on April 12, 2007 02:45 PM

As the father of two daughters attending large universities, I believe that CONVICTED rapists should be treated like CONVICTED sex offenders, with their pictures on the internet and notifications of their residence published for the safety of their neighbors. I also believe that those who prove to be false accusers should be appropriately exposed and prosecuted for hate crime if racism is part of the false accusation. Both offenses, if treated lightly, will contribute to repeated offenses of like nature or worse. The Duke 88 should feel free to condemn the party itself, but should now condemn their own hasty judgements unequivocally.

Furthermore, no one should take Katrina's anecdotes lightly, especially if someone wrongly twists her essential context as extreme feminism, and thereby justification for disproportionalely soft redresses against any behavior that countenances barbaric acts, be they sexual assault or racism.

Let us stand together agains all behavior that perpetuates racism, including but certainly not limited to, false accusation.

Posted by Casey on April 12, 2007 02:50 PM

Like Katrina I also attended a southern university in the late 80s. A majority of the students were from the south, typically from Southern Old and New Money. (I myself was from southern no money). I was a also in a fraternity, and we did have fairly frequent drinking parties, a somewhat trashy yard, and yes, the occasional stripper. I say all of this to establish my credentials as a evil hedonist white-privileged potential-gang-rapist. :-O

I don't claim that our behavior was exemplary, but it wasn't illegal and was no worse than many groups on campus - including athletic teams and certain ethnically-based organizations. While we (and most of the guys on campus) were a rambunctious lot, no one I knew of would have been involved in or tolerated anyone involved in a rape. In fact, during my junior year a woman reported that she had been raped by a group of fraternity members wearing their letters. For weeks we were held in suspense since the police wouldn't release any more information. The campus administration shut down all fraternity activities and forced us to attend lectures on sexual harrassment. Meanwhile many faculty started the effort to disband the entire fraternity and sorority system. Among fraternity members there was chaos as everyone tried to establish everyone else's whereabouts during the rape. Several guys were trying to figure out who the guilty people were, so they could administer a little 'rough justice'. However after a month the woman recanted her story - it had all been a hoax. She made up the story to get back at an ex-boyfriend. In this case we were lucky that the case ended quickly and there wasn't an unethical prosecutor, otherwise many innocent lives and reputations could have been ruined.

I don't claim that 'white privilege' doesn't exist, but there is clearly also anti-white male bigotry in the cultural elite - particularly among campus faculty. (And I think Katrina has a little 'energy' here as well...).

Posted by Gordo on April 12, 2007 02:55 PM

I think the facutly in the Econ. Dept. deserve praise. Seventeen faculty represents virtually the entire dept.

Posted by An Economist on April 12, 2007 03:22 PM

I think the facutly in the Econ. Dept. deserve praise. Seventeen faculty represents virtually the entire dept.

Posted by An Economist on April 12, 2007 03:23 PM

I wonder how Americans would respond if every accusation of criminal activity was handled as in this case and in the case Gordo described above.

Think about it, every time someone is pulled over for speeding, everyone in America gets a ticket. Every time someone dives drunk, everyone in America loses their driving privileges and must attend remedial driving class. Every time someone steals, every household in America is searched. Every time someone lies, everyone in America is charged with fraud.

Do you think that America would put up with this type of judicial harassment? No, it is a blatant violation of due process, so why do colleges and universities do things similar to this when certain accusations are made even though, according to law, everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty? This is not justice as written in law, this is nothing more than administrative tyranny.

Posted by Ray on April 12, 2007 03:30 PM

Katrina, here is rule #6) For God's sakes don't get accused by a black woman even if you are innocent. Mom will presume you guilty.

Question: I suppose the black gentleman in the Lacrosse team has just as much contempt from you? Careful how you answer.

Posted by Dave on April 12, 2007 03:32 PM

Good question, Dave.

It's my understanding that the single African-American player on the Duke lacrosse team (out of 47) wasn't a part of any of the activities on Buchanan Avenue, before or after March 13. Since he wasn't any part of the drunken, rude, loutish behavior - no, my contempt doesn't include him.

My "contempt" as you call it is aimed at those who set a pattern of bad behavior, got in peripheral trouble for it, got Mom and Dad to write some big checks to bail them out, and are now being paraded as models of virtue and All-American boyhood.

Posted by Katrina on April 12, 2007 03:53 PM

The 88 are members or an emotional lynch party. They look into mirrors that do not reflect anything that is just and worthwhile in our culture. They believe only in firing squads. There is no necessity for a trial. All they do is contribute to the destruction of this country. It will be a good time in the old town tonight again when these 60-nothings die off.

Posted by ChiefTestPilot on April 12, 2007 04:03 PM

Katrina wrote:

OK, can't let this go. Here are the 'life lessons' I have taught my son.

#1. Live by the Golden Rule (which, by the way, predates Christianity). Treat your peers, your superiors, and your neighbors with respect and as you would be treated.

Katrina, how are you treating the 3 innocent lacrosse players?

#2. Take responsibility for your actions. Don't equivocate, don't lie, and don't write or say things you'd be ashamed of in the future.

Katrina, are the "Group of 88" taking responsibility for their actions?

#3. Work as hard as possible, and to the absolute best of your ability. Don't make excuses for poor performance, and don't ask me (Mom) to bail you out of a jam.

Katrina, I believe that all of the accused had high grades at Duke. Did they work hard?

#4. Be compassionate to those around you. Realize you are living in a great nation whose members enjoy tremendous freedom and opportunity. Not everyone gets the chances that you will in life.

Katrina, are you compassionate towards the falsely accused?

#5. Clean your room, walk the dog, and scrape your plate after you're done eating, for heaven's sake. And keep your feet off my new sofa.

I hope you sofa is in good shape.

I have a daughter and son in college (and another son going next year). If my son was present at a party when two strippers arrived, I would hope that he would leave the party. I believe that you would want your son to leave the party. Reade Seligmann left the party. I think it is inappropriate for you to condemn him.

Posted by Steve on April 12, 2007 04:06 PM

Katrina - you're assuming the worst of these men - AND - you're assuming all the innuendo about loutish behavior was just those 3 men. Do you know for sure the 3 men urinated on other yards? Were inebriated? All 3 men were over 21 years of age at the time of the accusation.

Did you read the Coleman report? It stated that the lacrosse players were not racists, were great students - on the honor role - and while occasionally rowdy - were not exhibiting a pattern of criminal behavior. The lacrosse team received a complaint and the coach immediately told them to knock it off.

Hiring a stripper is perfectly legal in the state of North Carolina. It's not a "white privelege", men of all levels of society in North Carolina, of all races, are paying money to watch strippers. The miles and miles of roads with strip clubs is amazing, and it's all related to the military bases nearby. Most of those guys are making less than $25k / year defending our country - and a number of them spend quite a bit of that hard earned money on strip clubs and private strip shows.

I personally don't like it, and if my boyfriend engaged in that behavior I'd have a pretty serious conversation with him. But that's my prerogative as the girlfriend. And the prerogative of the girlfriends of the lax players.

For participating in a legal - but socially taboo - transaction, they did not deserve to have a false accusation made by a Lying, drug addled, revenge minded stripper who only made the accusation as they was being processed into the drunk tank, and couldn't keep her facts straight from hour to hour.

I'm also a lacrosse player and while lacrosse boys are generally rowdy, that's no reason to be falsely accused of rape and have a 30 year trip to prison hanging over your head.

This whole rich boy stereotype makes me think - what if it was your son? You've achieved some nice things in life. What if everyone accused your son of priveleged loutish behavior? Would that be fair? Would it be fair for you to have to liquidate all of your assets and remortgage your home to pay the legal bills to find him innocent?

Would that somehow "rebalance" society for past wrongs? Are you willing to sacrifice your son on the alter of radical social justice?

Quit believing the media reports from the first report of the complaint - they were clearly all wrong and wishful hoping that the accusation was true and the boys fit all of the stereotypes.

And beware the academies, they have thrown their own under the bus and will do so again to suit their own purposes.

Posted by Jana on April 12, 2007 04:22 PM

Jana - huh? What, precisely do you mean, "beware the academies?" With that, and your comment about
__________________________________________

miles and miles of roads with strip clubs.... all related to the military bases nearby... guys making less than $25k/year

__________________________________________

if I had a lesser mind, I might accuse you of some anti-military bias.

And, well, I read a synopsis of the Coleman report. And it's about what I would expect when you ask someone to investigate themselves - fluffy, unsubstantive, and full of excuses and minimizations. One example among many: the infamous "skin a stripper" email from a lax player was, according to this report, a "joke". I mean, come on. Even his defense attorney called it "vile", for heaven's sake.

I take the multitude of reports from the neighbors of the lacrosse team house as pretty much true. It sounds like the team consistently acted like a bunch of jerks, If my son were acting like this, attending parties like this, and expected me to bail him out - forget it.

It's my opinion that these kids got into this position precisely because they brought it on themselves. The fact that they had family members with forgiving attitudes and deep pockets no doubt contributed as well.

Posted by Katrina on April 12, 2007 04:43 PM

Katrina,

You read the contents of 140,000 pages on the Internet? You must be an amazingly fast reader. By the way, just because you get a hit, it doesn't mean that every page or even most of the pages have to do with the topic you put in. It just means there are a words from your search on the pages.

Posted by Emily on April 12, 2007 04:52 PM

I found Katrina's anecdote of the racist mom complaining about her daughter having to share a room with a N*****R reminiscent of a remarkably similar anecdote I heard years ago but involving a racist mom at a Texas school complaining to the white female resident assistant about her daughter having to share a room with a N****R. And the most amazing part was that this RA also directed the bigoted mom to a dean who happened to be black. Oh how snarky. What an amazingly coincidental story. Oh yes and the other anecdote, I've heard that one before too. Hmmm... amazing how these hate crimes always take place (and get cleaned up) when no one else is around to witness them or record them. Katrina? Is there any campus police record of your anecdotes? No? too bad. You really should have reported them. Katrina, I seriously doubt your anecdotes, I seriously doubt you are a blond haired blue eyes mom. Everything about your stories is a little too pat. A little too manafactured for belief. Perhaps you are actually one of the 88? Well probably not. Your writing style is too coherent. Nice try "Katrina" wink wink. Loved your stories. And you sure did stir up the responses. Log back in under another name and start writing again stating that you agree with Katrina and go from there. Chris - Orange Park, FL

Posted by Chris on April 12, 2007 04:54 PM

1) The falsely accused are not Southern white racists - - I do believe they were from the North and were simply attending school in the South.

2) Racism certainly exists - but it is not exclusive to the South. Remember the riots in the North over busing?

3) Just because an issue involves a white person and a black person does NOT make it a racial issue. To think such is the epitome of racism in my opinion.

Posted by cathy on April 12, 2007 04:57 PM

Come on folks - going to a stripper party is not the end of the world - I am 70 and have seen and done a lot of living. What is the end of the world is hungry and abused children - stuff like that. Lets keep our prospective here. I am happy these guys got out of this with their lives - not beaten or raped - which is what would have happened if Nifong managed to get them in jail. I imagine he was shocked when they made bail. Yes, I do know what happens in jail and prison = worked as an Rn in felony for a long time.

Posted by lynp on April 12, 2007 04:59 PM

" I see the lacrosse team as a bunch of privileged drunken jerks who got away with so much for so long, they considered themselves damn near invincible"

That is funny, because your 12.20 post only manages to come up with the allegation that Duke students party. Strangely, with all these thousands of newspaper articles, you cannot come up with evidence that the three indicted players were "privileged drunken jerks"

"The Duke lacrosse team had been acting in such a disgraceful, disgusting manner as college students (read news accounts) that the possibility that they had actually committed gang rape was not so far-fetched. Read their neighbors' accounts, their classmates' accounts of how they held near-nightly parties, littered the yard and street with bottles and vomit and then threatened those neighbors who dared to complain."

strange, because the Coleman report investigated these allegations extensively, and explicitly came to the conclusion that they were without foundation.

You prefer to believe hearsay, with unnamed complainants about unnamed Duke students, and conflate that into guilt for specific people.

how strange
per

Posted by per on April 12, 2007 05:06 PM

Devon - the black member of the team was at the drinking and stripper party. He said so himself and so did his Dad. He also said the team were like brothers and I have no reason to believe that is not true. I do not see these guys ingaging in drunken and loutish behavior. Women walking around on the street drunk is loutish behavior.

Posted by lynp on April 12, 2007 05:12 PM

Hi Chris -

Yeah, look at how many times I've re-logged on and agreed with myself. I mean, look at all the support I'm getting here on this blog......

And I sincerely doubt that you've ever heard ANY of my anecdotes about racism on a Southern college campus. Nope, we didn't make a police report - who had the time? My resident didn't want to deal with the hassle, she was pre-med and had way too much on her plate at that point. I've told only a few family and friends about these experiences - they're ugly stories, but they're true stories and I saw them firsthand.

"A little too manufactured... a little too pat"? What is that supposed to mean? If I write incoherently, use poor grammar and spelling - is that more believable? Should I sound more - oh, I don't know - "blonde"?

Should I, like Vincent Carroll, misread and misrepresent the contents of the Duke faculty letter - knowing that the vast majority of my readers won't bother to go find the original text online?

Oh, and you can also go online and read the (James) Coleman report - an inhouse review produced by Duke faculty members. Among other things, it states that 40% of the Duke lacrosse team had GPAs below a 3.0, that alcohol abuse was prevalent among team members, and that there had been numerous faculty complaints about their classroom behavior.

Go. Look it up. The Internet is a great B.S. detector, isn't it?

Posted by Katrina on April 12, 2007 05:14 PM

Katrina

You keep referring to "my" son, was there a sperm donor? Since you indicate he is going to one of the service academies, I'm going to assume, based on your posts, that someone else besides you had some influence on his life.

Posted by Sam on April 12, 2007 05:14 PM

Chris

You may have hit the nail on the head. I think Katrina is an agent provocateur - and he/she certainly has enlivened the blog. I do believe that she is a she. She also writes too well to believe some of the comments she makes - unless she's a graduate of UC Berkeley.

Posted by Sam on April 12, 2007 05:23 PM

Katrina, I suspected you of being one of the group of 88 since your points and defenses were identical with theirs. But I had to dismiss that fleeting thought because you write to well. If you have ever read what they wrote you would agree that your style is much more coherent. As for the anecdotes I heard I confirmed with my friend who told me them but I must confess to one error. I said a Texas school. He reminded me that the urban legend incident, (complete with the black hair products and Michael Jackson poster) occurred at Arizona State University. My mistake and I apologize. Perhaps you were the resident assistant there.

PS: I do commend your courage to stay on line defending your point. But now I suspect you to be an agent provocateur, stirring up the responses. Very good! I admire you. You are a perfect parody of the 88.

Chris - Orange Park, FL

Posted by Chris on April 12, 2007 05:29 PM

An "agent provocateur"? I "write too well to believe"?

Hilarious. Perhaps I should make a career change; this is fun and an entertaining way to while away a boring Thursday afternoon.

And, no sperm donor, boys. There's a nice white Southern gentleman who contributed his Y chromosome, his brown hair, and his lacrosse prowess.

Posted by Katrina on April 12, 2007 05:31 PM

Katrina,

Was that in-house review by Duke faculty members done by some of the same 88 faculty members who applauded demonstrations against the boys and the team before the facts were in? GPAs below 3.0 have what to do with what? Are all students with GPAs below 3.0 drunken, lacivious, racist, sexist, white boys? What about the other 60% who didn't have GPAs below 3.0 - exceptions to the rule?

Posted by Sam on April 12, 2007 05:36 PM

I agree with Katrina.

Posted by NotKatrina on April 12, 2007 05:42 PM

Me too!

Posted by AlsoNotKatrina on April 12, 2007 05:43 PM

Okay okay Chris and Sam - Quit with the love affair for Katrina. Next you'll be asking her for her private email address.

Posted by IWishIwasKatrina on April 12, 2007 05:44 PM

No chance. That fine Southern gentleman might want to duel over Scarlet/oops, I mean Katrina. And all you "not Katrinas" should form your own opinions and not just agree with your alter-ego.

Next we'll hear from If_I_Were_Katrina.

Posted by Sam on April 12, 2007 05:52 PM

Katrina, What is YOUR private email address? LOL

Posted by Chris on April 12, 2007 05:54 PM

talking of bullshit detectors, I went to the Coleman report Katrina cited.

"In 2005, twenty seven members of the lacrosse team, more than half, made the Atlantic Coast Conference's Academic Honor Roll, more than any other ACC lacrosse team. (The Academic Honor Roll consists of athletes who have earned a 3.0 average in their courses.)" Where did Katrina's 40% come from ???

Although Katrina said the Coleman report was "an inhouse review produced by Duke faculty members", it is mainly administrators, with two members of the police force on board.

This is verbatim from the report on academic and athletic performance.

"The members of the lacrosse team generally have been academically responsible students. 5

The Committee surveyed ten members of the Duke faculty in whose courses a significant number of lacrosse players have enrolled. 6 With one exception, those members of the faculty who have been able to identify lacrosse players in their classes report that the students have been engaged and "certainly have caused no problems." The professors report that the students appear to take their academic obligations seriously. "

Here is an interesting quote, where the policemen seem to suggest that much of the hearsay maligning the LAX players is misattributed.

"Captain Sarvis said lacrosse players did not represent a special or unique problem in District 2; in fact, none of the houses rented by lacrosse players was among the worst of those whose loud parties attracted hundreds of disorderly Duke students on weekends. Although lacrosse players rented a large house at 1206 W. Markham, Captain Sarvis said it was not among the top 10 houses about which neighbors complained the most. 22 Nor did lacrosse players as a group stand out as the worst student offenders. Captain Sarvis said the fraternity-affiliated houses presented a greater challenge to police than any of the houses rented by athletes. 23 The committee senses that since the March 13th incident, some Trinity Park/Trinity Heights residents' legitimate frustrations with Duke students have been inappropriately attributed to lacrosse players."

yet, it is amazing how good the internet is for detecting bullshit.
per

Posted by per on April 12, 2007 05:55 PM

Wow, NotKatrina and AlsoNotKatrina posted within one minute apart. Amazing.

Posted by Michelle on April 12, 2007 05:56 PM

The Duke 88 Faculty's names and email are available on the net. I would love to hear who they would like to play them in the movie, that you know will be made, about the injustice to these three students. Is there a ugly villain face book that they can look through?

When that movie and the books come out, I dare say it is not going to help "Duke Basketball" being something you think of when you hear Duke University. Even when I hear "Duke University" now, I think of a hatred-filled venomous left-wing faculty and a place that any young person should be afraid to attend. Why? Because it is a fact that the leadership, and those that hold your future (faculty) in their hands, will so easily trample on your rights and destroy your future. And when they do, they will only continue in their arrogance defending their reprehensible behavior. Honestly, what would any young person really learn there?

Posted by richard on April 12, 2007 05:59 PM

Good find Per. How does that crow taste Katrina?

Posted by Michelle on April 12, 2007 05:59 PM

Katrina, I hope you are never on a jury for a criminal case or in a position to sentence anyone. You apparently never heard of, or agree with, "Let the punishment fit the crime."

It's my opinion that these kids got into this position precisely because they brought it on themselves. The fact that they had family members with forgiving attitudes and deep pockets no doubt contributed as well.

Posted by redcybra on April 12, 2007 06:01 PM

Per,
"more than half, made the Atlantic Coast Conference's Academic Honor Roll, more than any other ACC lacrosse team. (The Academic Honor Roll consists of athletes who have earned a 3.0 average in their courses.)" Where did Katrina's 40% come from ???"

Depends on how many more than half made the honor roll. Her 40% may have come out of the other just under 50% that didn't have over a 3.0 GPA.

Posted by Sam on April 12, 2007 06:04 PM

Katrina,
Unlike many people on this post, I'm not going to call you a bigot or a racist. Many of the points about the boys behavior you describe are probably true, but with all due respect, I think you're missing the point.
The legacy of the Duke Case is really not about the professors, or about kids urinating on a neighbor's lawn. The legacy is about an out of control prosecutor and his enablers at Durham PD indict 3 kids on serious felony charges without a shred of physical evidence and a statement from the accusor that changed every time she told it. It's not really about the kid's behavior, but about adult behavior from a prosecutor and his police department surrogates who used the boys (and the victim) to get elected.
History will show Nifong's behavior as one of the most outrageous acts of prosecutorial misconduct ever. As a police officer myself , I am ashamed of what happened in Durham because it was carried out by supposedly law enforcement "professionals" that should have known better.

Posted by DRay on April 12, 2007 06:06 PM

Re. Where to spend $100,000 for college that doesn't twist ur kids mind.

Try the National Review College Guide- readily available at Amazon

Posted by steve on April 12, 2007 06:06 PM

OOPS - Michelle had less than a 3.0 in math as well as Per.

Posted by Sam on April 12, 2007 06:07 PM

Katrina,
Unlike many people on this post, I'm not going to call you a bigot or a racist. Many of the points about the boys behavior you describe are probably true, but with all due respect, I think you're missing the point.
The legacy of the Duke Case is really not about the professors, or about kids urinating on a neighbor's lawn. The legacy is about an out of control prosecutor and his enablers at Durham PD indict 3 kids on serious felony charges without a shred of physical evidence and a statement from the accusor that changed every time she told it. It's not really about the kid's behavior, but about adult behavior from a prosecutor and his police department surrogates who used the boys (and the victim) to get elected.
History will show Nifong's behavior as one of the most outrageous acts of prosecutorial misconduct ever. As a police officer myself , I am ashamed of what happened in Durham because it was carried out by supposedly law enforcement "professionals" that should have known better.

Posted by DRay on April 12, 2007 06:18 PM

Is there a listing of the names of the Duke 88?

Posted by john on April 12, 2007 07:01 PM

AMEN!

Posted by Melissa on April 12, 2007 07:02 PM

These students were wronged ? Society in general was wronged by the behavior in that house. Abuse of alcohol is running rampant across campuses nationwide. Strippers were abused.?..What were strippiers doing there in the first place? Are we back in the fifties with Frank and Dean??? With no regard for their parents, grandparents, little brothers, sisters, possibly young fans or their university these party boys got caught - PARTYING.....Oh well at least they were in a house not out on the highway drunk driving... trying to commit MURDER. Crap like this goes on everyday across our nation while everyone turns a blind eye. They may not be guilty today of the rape crime but they are guilty of the crime of abuse...of alcohol, women, their families, their university, their fellow student athletes reputations and on and on....The University and the parents at that 'used to be fine' institution need to STEP UP and take responsibility - all are punished.....Give them a couple months in Baghdad and they'll MAN-UP real fast.....but as we know that WILL NEVER HAPPEN...why not jerk them out of college completely and make them work for a living for a year or so and if they want to go back to college after that - make them pay for it.....novel idea eh mom and pop????

Posted by Duke just not the same.... on April 12, 2007 07:07 PM

These boys were falsely accused of rape, kidnapping, and sexual assault. if convicted of these crimes, they could have gone to jail for decades.

Duke University didn't give them the presumption of innocence -- not for one minute -- and this is the foundation of our legal system and of our societal morality. Duke failed. Period.

The fact that they drank beer and watched a girl take off her clothes is trivial. Being falsely charged with felonies is anything but trivial.

Posted by Leonidas on April 12, 2007 07:38 PM

These boys were falsely accused of rape, kidnapping, and sexual assault. if convicted of these crimes, they could have gone to jail for decades.

Duke University didn't give them the presumption of innocence -- not for one minute -- and this is the foundation of our legal system and of our societal morality. Duke failed. Period.

The fact that they drank beer and watched a girl take off her clothes is trivial. Being falsely charged with felonies is anything but trivial.

Posted by on April 12, 2007 07:39 PM

"Depends on how many more than half made the honor roll. Her 40% may have come out of the other just under 50% that didn't have over a 3.0 GPA."
Indeed; I misread Katrina's post, and thought she was saying only 40% got above 3. My mistake.

Nonetheless, she has misrepresented the Coleman report. It went out of its way to say that there was no evidence of racism in the LAX team. The police were evidently very comfortable in making clear that the LAX houses were not problem houses, and that much of the published hearsay about these house was mistaken.

The report did find that there were problems with drinking. Although they highlighted that finding, they didn't convince me that the LAX team were worse than the male campus average.

per

Posted by per on April 12, 2007 07:46 PM

"Oops- Michelle had less than a 3.0 in math as well as Per"

And you'd know this how? Stick the the facts buddy. I know it's difficult for liberals to do today, but do give it the old college try!

Posted by Jim on April 12, 2007 07:51 PM

THE HATE 88

They need to be summarily fired for bringing disgrace to Duke University.

Abe, Stan (Art, Art History, and Visual Studies)
Albers, Benjamin (University Writing Program)
Allison, Anne (Cultural Anthropology)
Aravamudan, Srinivas (English)
Baker, Houston (English and AAAS)
Baker, Lee (Cultural Anthropology)
Beckwith, Sarah (English)
Berliner, Paul (Music)
Christina Beaule (University Writing Program)
Blackmore, Connie (AAAS)
Jessica Boa (Religion & University Writing Program)
Boatwright, Mary T. (Classical Studies)
Boero, Silvia (Romance Studies)
Bonilla-Silva, Eduardo (Sociology)
Brim, Matthew (University Writing Program)
Chafe, William (History)
Ching, Leo (Asian & African Languages and Literatures)
Coles, Rom (Political Science)
Cooke, Miriam (Asian & African Languages and Literatures)
Crichlow, Michaeline (AAAS)
Curtis, Kim (Political Science)
Damasceno, Leslie (Romance Studies)
Davidson, Cathy (English)
Deutsch, Sally (History)
Dorfman, Ariel (Literature & Latin American Stds.)
Edwards, Laura (History)
Farred, Grant (Literature)
Fellini, Luciana (Romance Studies)
Fulkerson, Mary McClintock (Divinity School)
Gabara, Esther (Romance Studies)
Gavins, Raymond (History)
Greer, Meg (Romance Studies)
Glymph, Thavolia (History)
Hardt, Michael (Literature)
Harris, Joseph (University Writing Program)
Holloway, Karla (English)
Holsey, Bayo (AAAS)
Hovsepian, Mary (Sociology)
James, Sherman (Public Policy)
Kaplan, Alice (Literature)
Khalsa, Keval Kaur (Dance Program)
Khanna, Ranjana (English)
King, Ashley (Romance Studies)
Koonz, Claudia (History)
Lasch, Peter (Art, Art History, and Visual Studies & Latino/a Studies)
Lee, Dan A. (Math)
Leighten, Pat (Art, Art History, and Visual Studies)
Lentricchia, Frank (Literature)
Light, Caroline (Inst. for Crit. U.S. Stds.)
Litle, Marcy (Comparative Area Studies)
Litzinger, Ralph (Cultural Anthropology)
Longino, Michele (Romance Studies)
Lubiano, Wahneema (AAAS and Literature)
Maffitt, Kenneth(History)
Mahn, Jason (University Writing Program)
Makhulu, Anne-Maria (AAAS)
Mason, Lisa (Surgical Unit-2100)
McClain, Paula (Political Science)
Meintjes, Louise (Music)
Mignolo, Walter (Literature and Romance Studies)
Moreiras, Alberto (Romance Studies)
Neal, Mark Anthony (AAAS)
Nelson, Diane (Cultural Anthropology)
Olcott, Jolie (History)
Parades, Liliana (Romance Studies)
Payne, Charles (AAAS and History)
Pierce-Baker, Charlotte (Women's Studies)
Pebles-Wilkins, Wilma
Petters, Arlie (Math)
Plesser, Ronen (Physics)
Radway, Jan (Literature)
Rankin, Tom (Center for Documentary Studies)
Rego, Marcia (University Writing Program)
Reisinger, Deborah S. (Romance Studies)
Rosenberg, Alex (Philosophy)
Rudy, Kathy (Women's Studies)
Schachter, Marc (English)
Shannon, Laurie (English)
Sigal, Pete (History)
Silverblatt, Irene (Cultural Anthropology)
Somerset, Fiona (English)
Stein, Rebecca (Cultural Anthropology)
Thorne, Susan (History)
Viego, Antonio (Literature)
Vilaros, Teresa (Romance Studies)
Wald, Priscilla (English)
Wallace, Maurice (English and AAAS)
Wong, David (Philosophy)

Posted by on April 12, 2007 07:55 PM

Sam.....math was never a strong subject of mine, but then again, I never falsely accused innocent men of raping me either.

Posted by Michelle on April 12, 2007 08:15 PM

Isn't it amazing how few hard science faculty were among the 88. No chemistry profs, one physics, 2 math, no bio, and no engineering. Most of the roll of shame are in the "social" fields where you would expect to find a bunch of leftists. Among the hard sciences, physics and math tend to have more leftists than chemistry or engineering, which is exactly as observed.

Posted by AndrewP on April 12, 2007 08:25 PM

One of your writers asked where to send her/his child.
Hillsdale College in Michigan.

Posted by jake on April 12, 2007 08:45 PM

Apology? Resignation? Firing? What puny redress these are against the infamous Duke 88 and President Broadhead. They need to be sued by the three innocents. Not only will it scare the miscreant 88 and Brodhead, and deplete their pocket books, but it will scare hell out the whole LIBERAL academic establishment. Where can I send my contribution?

Posted by Steve Sander on April 12, 2007 08:45 PM

Perhaps a new team name to honor the 88? I recommend Duke Bluestate Devils.

Posted by lawless on April 12, 2007 08:55 PM

Katrina,
I am so glad you've been posting ! Why, up North and in the Midwest and out on the coast, young men on the college campuses NEVER party or drink. And all the rich young men on the college campuses spend every weekend volunteering for Habitat for Humanity!
And there is no such thing as racism up North or anywhere else, except in the South! I know this, because I am an Air Force brat and have lived all over the country. People everywhere else NEVER say mean things about people of color, and they ALL love Jewish people.
And there's no naked women up there either!

Cinnamon

Posted by CinnamongirlUF on April 12, 2007 09:00 PM

Regarding Katrina's comments: my daughters attend 2 of America's elite universities, just as my wife and I did. I can't think of any place less rife with racism, sexism, or any other ism you choose than an Ivy college such as Duke. Indeed, those schools were the birthplace of political correctnes, for those who have forgotten.The Duke professoriat and its student acolytes are living in a fantasy world. Here's some free advice for the PhD crowd: pull your noses out of your books of grievances and examine America as it really is. In other words, grow up.

Posted by Steven on April 12, 2007 09:04 PM

Hey Chris, I think your theory is correct and Katrina came back in as Cinnamongirl.

Go Gators!

Posted by Go Gators! on April 12, 2007 09:17 PM

Has anybody remembered that La Crosse is a game that was originally played by Native Americans (Is that the right name for them now?), which might make it even more "American" than basketball? And I'd bet that most La Crosse players are proud of keeping that game alive. I don't know whether any southern universities are racist or not. But these young men were guilty of only one thing. Going to a party where a stripper was. A wrong. But one that a lot of men go to, apparently. They didn't deserve what they got. If they did, then every man that goes to Hooters or woman who goes to see the Chippendales deserves that, too. I hope they will go on with their lives and that they will be successful. For, like the young ladies of Rutgers University basketball team, they have probably worked very hard to get where they are, and they will not be deterred by this, just as those young ladies will not be, I suspect. As for the young lady who accused them, I hope she gets the help she seems to need. Otherwise her life will not be so good. I hope Jesse Jackson keeps his word, and does help her through college, although I wouldn't let my daughter near than man.

Posted by Don on April 12, 2007 09:42 PM

Hello Go Gator - Except for the fact that cinnamongirl is being obviously tongue in cheek, you may be right that she is Katrina reincarnate appeared now taking the opposite tack to further stir the pot of discussion, this time as a critic of her previous parody statements. Katrina is obviously quite bright and mischievous so I wouldn't put it past her.

Posted by Chris on April 12, 2007 10:15 PM

Interesting that Katrina has not posted since her "facts" were shown to be more of the same lies and scurrilous misrepresentations that led to this whole mess in the first place.
She is a waste of logic. As has been said "It is impossible to reason a person out of a position that reason was not used to reach"

Posted by steve on April 12, 2007 11:01 PM

Katrina is most likely one of the 88. It's interesting to note that she claims to have been a dorm RA for two years, but in an earlier post when she was lying about her hair color, she said she was in a sorority. She initially talked about how her "son" was a lax player. In a much later post she mentions how her "husband" was a lax player. She doesn't have blond hair, a son or a husband. She is a lesbian professor at Duke where she
"If I was a professor at Duke, I would hate to have those guys in my class"
hated having heterosexual white males in her classes.
She's curiously interested in the financial aspect of the case. How much the parents had to pay to defend them. How much the government had to pay prosecuting the them. AND IT'S THEIR FAULT, because they "lived like pigs", making the false allegations oh so believable. No mother of a son would say "I'm not worried about them. In a year they'll be fine".

Posted by jim on April 12, 2007 11:02 PM

A mob on the left behaves the same as a mob on the right. They don't care about truth, only their agenda. Give the self-righeous enough rope and they will hang themselves every time.

Posted by doug on April 12, 2007 11:53 PM

What Katrina simply does not understand is that Duke is not a Southern school. It is a school full of Yankees who bring NY-NJ-Penn-Mass-etc. down to NC. This is fine by me, but it makes her argument specious.

I graduated UNC and spent time at Duke as well. My father is a Duke grad. Trust me, Duke is NOT a Southern institution, a straightforward fact of life well-known in the Triangle.

The analogy is unfit. What happened at Ole Miss or wherever she graduated 25 years ago is wholly unrelated to Duke, a fact she should know.

Perhaps she does know, but does not care? Perhaps she feels some guilt at not doing anything of substance back in the day about blatant racism when she saw it, and is now trying to assauge her own conflicted emotions by making rash public condemnations of all males at southern schools as an effort to deny pity for the Duke 3? Maybe Katrina feels SHE does not deserve pity for her own weakness in the face of racism, and is now projecting her guilt upon all southern males as a call to arms that the rest of us should WATCH OUT for all the racist southerners loosed amongst us?

Well, that's a reach. I suspect it is something less exotic, something much more pedestrian. Maybe Katrina simply cannot bring herself to feel pity for wrongfully accused rich kids, thinking the rules should only apply to the rest of us?

Whatever it all is, her original post which equates Duke to a racist haven full of Jim Crow southern slaveowners planning their next minstrel show is a total fabrication that reveals one of two likely things - either this woman is a deliberately playing fast-n-loose with the truth (who can join the long list of other liars preceding her in this disaster), or else she is so swept up by her issues deriving from her own troubled college experience that she is unable to see straight. I do not doubt the veracity of her recollections from Wherever U, but what does it have to do with Dukies? We've previously seen blind, headstrong insistence upon turning this case into something it isn't, have we not?

Oh, that's right - Nifong.

Bottom line: Crystal Mangum is a damn liar, motivated by racism, hate, greed, and numerous other ugly impulses. Katrina, here's your bad guy, assuming you have the nerve to look.

Bottom line: Duke is nothing like the place she attended, nor are today's Duke students remotely similar to her compatriots from long ago.

But never mind these inconvenient facts. She has a metanarrative to weave and she's gonna put that hair shirt on the rest of us whether we want to wear it or not!

Posted by Joel Elliott on April 13, 2007 12:06 AM

The real racism in America is demonstrated by the crime stats. A white person is 30 times more likely to be murdered by a black person than vice-versa, despite young black males (by far the most violent group, statistically, against both blacks and whites) constituting less than 5% of America. Check DOJ and FBI stats if you don't beleive it.

Yes, there are still some idiot , racist whites in America. Very occasionally a white will kill, rape or otherwise commit a violent crime against a black person. But ask the Duke88 this: would you rather be called names and hated simply because of your skin tone and ancestry, or be murdered or robbbed or raped? This is much more common than the outright, gross racism supposedly rampant in America. THIS is the true, ugly racism that exists in America today, but is not mentioned by the ultra PC, critical theory, post modern theorists in academia today.

Posted by john on April 13, 2007 12:11 AM

This whole Duke 88 issue reminds me of the old addage: "Some things are so stupid only those with graduate degrees can beleive it." Note to these insulated egoists: most of Black America is doing well. Home ownership is at an all time high.

The issue is values and class much more than race. An example: I work for a child welfare agency in Los Angeles. I work with many graduate degreed Blacks, Whites and those of other racial/ethnic groups, as well as many clerical staff who are Black. When the OJ Simpson verdict was announced, the Black clerical staff, en mass, were jumping up and down, cheering and hugging each other. The degreed Black co-workers, making the same salary as me and sharing the same class and values, including my Black good friend and deskmate, were silent, head down adn almost universally disgusted. This event showd me a lot about the reality of Black culture, and the fact that there is really two Black Americas, to borrow John Edwards' lame mantra.

Posted by JL on April 13, 2007 12:26 AM

Interesting debate, but don't any of you work during the day. That could be why no lawyer responed to the request for a legal opinion.

I agree with Carrol for the most part.

But I agree with Katrina that racism is alive and well everywhere, especially in the South. Anything that is handed down generation after generation takes a long time to go away.

However, I feel that acedamia has been taken over by out of control liberals and that their programs and agendas only make things worse for minorities and white males.

Posted by mike on April 13, 2007 01:23 AM

"But I agree with Katrina that racism is alive and well everywhere, especially in the South."

Oh racism is alive and well and it thrives in all colors of our society, but your South comment is ignorant.

Posted by Tallie on April 13, 2007 06:07 AM

Tallie,
Yes, Mike's ignorance has been handed down to him for generations, and unfortunately, he has probably already passed it on to his own progeny.

Hey Mike, racism is alive and well everywhere. Period.

Chris, couldn't resist stirring up the pot of discussion myself ;-) . BTW, let's not give "Katrina" too much credit because it might encourage her to keep posting and I was beginning to find her tedious.

Go Gators!
"....I could be happy the rest of my life with a Cinnamon girl..." Neil Young

Posted by CinnamongirlUF aka Go Gators on April 13, 2007 07:05 AM

Well, good morning all!

OK, I stopped posting because I had to get to work, have dinner with my family (fajitas) and then go back to work for the evening. I'm here now because the predicted snow for my area didn't materialize, and I have an extra 20 mins to spend online.

Oh, and I'm not a lesbian Women's Studies prof from Duke. I have zero interest in academia, because I like making money, to be totally honest. There's no way on this earth that I can prove that I have both a husband, a kid (both lax players) and am white - it's the Internet, guys, and it's full of wackjobs so I'm not revealing anything more.

That being said, I would like to refocus the blog's attention to Vincent Carroll for a fourth time.

In his column yesterday, he totally misrepresented the content of the Duke faculty letter (the "Hate 88" as some of you have oh-so-cleverly rhymed it). Read in its entirety (and it is totally available on the Internet, it wasn't removed by a shamefaced faculty member) it only speaks peripherally about the lacrosse players' case.

The vast majority of the letter is dedicated to a discussion of the racism, sexism and prejudice these faculty members see on a daily basis at Duke. It is composed mainly of quotes from Duke students who participated in an on-campus meeting dealing with these issues.

When I was in grad school, I had a TA-ship that required me to teach several sections of a science course. After four semesters of this, I was fed up with a certain segment of lazy students who came into my 9 am class hungover or still drunk (especially during Rush), used "test files" available in dorms and frat houses to plagerize lab reports and papers, and generally had an excuse for everything. I also had four semesters' worth of parent's angry phone calls regarding their 19- or 20-year old "little darling" who was pulling a D or a C in my course - trying to intimidate me into changing the grade in question. Unbelieveable, but true.

I had four semesters of this crap, and I was never so happy as when I was done. 90% of my students were good and dedicated and hard working - the other 10% unmotivated and highly problematic. To be honest, the 90% of students who were trying hard to get a good education at a large research university were middle-class, working their way through school or on scholarship.

The students whose parents intervened were wealthy (some might say "spoiled" or even "spoiled rotten"). I heard things like, "I play golf with the chancellor...." or "I am an alum, and I donate $10,000 a year to this school...." from these parents. I hear echos of this in the Duke lacrosse player's parents - their kids' troubles (academic, legal or otherwise) are never, ever the kids' fault. Their son's behavior - trashing the "party/pig house", ruining a neighborhood - had no impact on the decision to believe the accuser and charge them with gang rape - in fact, I never even heard any admission of the sort.

I imagine the Duke faculty has been dealing with this kind of behavior for a lot longer, and that is what lies at the heart of their letter. They have no doubt heard from students who report "anecdotes" of racism and sexism as I have.
I must admit, I hate it when "spin" takes over - and people like Mr. Carroll (and Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Ralph Nader, and Michael Moore) count on the intellectual laziness of their readers/listeners/viewers. They rely on our hectic daily lives, on the schedules we all keep, and know we won't actually go to the primary source and read the damn thing.

Vincent Carroll (along with many in the RW media) used yesterday's column - and our disinclination to research a primary source - to take a statement from the Duke faculty about racism and sexism and turn it into something entirely different.

I've read the Duke faculty letter three times. and 90% (haven't done a MS Word count, anyone have time?) of it doesn't even mention the lacrosse players. The other 10% only does so peripherally, never stating that the players are "guilty" or anything of the sort.

Read it yourselves, if you care a bit about intellectual honesty, about challenging yourself and your preconceptions.

Posted by Katrina on April 13, 2007 07:18 AM

Off to work now. And I'm not going re-log on under a different name, and I haven't retreated out of shame and humiliation and defeat, for crying out loud.

One thing: when I was a TA, 80% of my students' grades were Scantronned - those infamous "bubble sheets" that you fill in and a computer scans and reports. The other 20% were hand-graded (by me) lab reports and homework. If I had had some evil predisposition to flunk every rich white boy, it just wasn't possible.

Also - my son could probably be termed a "rich white boy", too. I have never, ever bailed him out of a jam, never called a teacher to whine and complain about his grades - only pointed out that he needed to work harder, organize more, etc.

Posted by Katrina on April 13, 2007 07:53 AM

Hey Katrina... girl.... I read your posts and my "selective memory meter" re: your anecdotes backing up your thesis, goes crazy.

So, then, I question your intellectual honesty, not unlike they way you questioned ours, can't help myself.

Dang, so then I find myself thinking, could Katrina be one of those people who hasn't challenged herself and her preconceptions since college and thinks she has all the answers to society's ills? At least on Southern college campuses with rich students?

Nahhh, well maybe, hmmm, just a thought.

Hey...my daughter plays lacrosse too!! And she's really really good!

Posted by CinnamongirlUF aka Go Gators on April 13, 2007 07:56 AM

Katrina,

You writing is focused and well organised. I think you are largely wrong, but it is a pleasure to read nicely written posts such as yours.

Now, back to slamming it...:)

You miss the point of a typical Duke 3 supporter's outrage over the Hate of 88 ad. Two things:

1) The ad clearly mentioned the LAX party and put forward a public assumption the charges were true. Most of us think dragging the LAX allegations onto center stage was the primary goal of the ad. That is was surrounded by other verbiage was analogous to hauling up the Ten Commandments on a plaque in the courthouse, and then trying to weasel out of the public outrage by placing the Magna Carta on one side and the Constitution on the other, calling the whole display an histortical document. BS.

What steamed their critics is that important people, Duke faculty, were immediately seizing upon the allegations as fact. The ad served to put the weight off Duke itself behind the campaign to crucify them, and this royally pissed off many of us who did, and still do, think it out of place.

The ad clearly presented the Mangum's wild claims as likely truths, which was the central aspect of the ad, regardless of the rest of it. The other issues raised aren't unimportant, of course, but the timing of the ad in relation to the LAX claims was 99% of what people were reading into it, and this was not accidentally the case.

2) If the ad did not intend to drive home an impression the LAX charges were true, then it was way beyond improper to even mention them during that time period. Nifong was deliberately driving the Triangle toward a racial explosion. It would have been wisest, and not even in retrospect, to avoid the allegations until they had the weight of evidence behind them. Not doing so ran the risk of heaping a dangerous amount of false blame upon the true victims of the Mangum's outrageous crime. The atmosphere during that time was violent and volatile - putting forward the assumption of guilt was reckless, dangerous for the accused, and wholly without cause. Essentially, the Hate of 88 ad served to ruin the public's sense of balance and fair play. This simply cannot be denied, and many of us saw it at that time.

The ad further took up Mangum's lies and magnified them by attaching the lies of the AAAS department. White men simply do not rape and sexually assault black women except at the lowest rates. The ad indicated black students live in abject fear of being attacked by white boys - this is damned nonsense which must be directly contradicted as such. If an informed discussion of interracial rape actually needed to take place in America, the end result would be that white and Asian men would be held up as good examples of not committing interracial sex crimes. Low enough, in fact, that black men should aim for the type of propriety practiced by white men and Asians in this regard. Did the ad leave anyone with this impression? Clearly not.

Not only did the ad inject Duke employees into an essentially baseless pogrom to ruin the lives of enrolled Duke students, it served to advance gross misrepresentations of the true incidence of white-on-black sex crime. This is very, very close to a firing offense in my opinion. The AAAS professors lied about important statistics in their own field as they capitalized on the fleeting chance to espouse racist hate fantasies. It is NOT a pretty picture. A Duke professor should not be allowed the freedom of misleading the public about facts within his own field during a time of heightened public emotions.

The whole event just drives many of us nuts. Why doesn't the ad bother you?

Posted by Joel Elliott on April 13, 2007 08:28 AM

Don @ 9:42.

Actually, lacrosse began with the Iroquois indians in what is now Canada. The Iroquois Nation in Canada continues to have a national lacrosse team that plays in the world games when held.

Regards -- Karl W.

Posted by Karl W on April 13, 2007 09:58 AM

GaryB, I too am a WASP Univ. of TN alum, and you're wrong. So is Katrina -- the power might have once been in the hands of privilege, as you claim, but within academia it's now in the hands of the likes of the Duke 88. And GaryB, don't give me the crap about being an evangelical; no, you have imbibed from the fountain of cultural Marxism and, like Katrina, you probably don't even realize you've become drunk with that wine, dripping as it is so readily from your lips.

Posted by DiverCity on April 13, 2007 10:17 AM

Dear Katrina
you are correct that you should read (e.g. the 88's ad) correctly, and not misrepresent what is in that ad.
However, you misrepresented the Coleman report. You have misrepresented the behaviour of the players, based on innuendo and gossip, which even the police are prepared to say is wrong.

how about you 'fess up to where you have got it wrong ?
per

Posted by per on April 13, 2007 11:30 AM

I was writing this post on Thursday evening, and when I refreshed the page this afternoon I was elated to see Jake's post recommending Hillsdale College. I am a proud graduate of Hillsdale, a small liberal arts school in Michigan, established in 1844. I graduated in 1963 and 44 years later, I would heartily recommend it to anyone. Hillsdale graduates have raised tens of millions of dollars to keep the institution free from any government regulation. Lest anyone jump to conclusions, Hillsdale granted some of the first degrees in Michigan to women and racial minorities. This independence also makes it possible for Hillsdale scholarship funds to serve individual needs, not government percentages.The desire for independence has proved its worth when other colleges and universities must spend millions to comply with a myriad of regulations. In speaking to high school classmates, those who graduated from many elite institutions are not supporting their alma maters in any financial way because they have seen them decline in quality. On the other hand, Hillsdale maintains its standards, serves a small number of students (1250) and attracts highly regarded faculty (student/professor ratio of 10 to 1 with 81% of the faculty at PhD. level). The college outreach monthly publication, Imprimis, reaches over one million individuals each month and is now available on the college website, Hillsdale.edu. Many thanks, Jake, for your unsolicited praise, something I have experienced many tmes over the years. "Oh, you went to Hillsdale? Great college!"

Posted by Marcie Lindstrom Leto on April 13, 2007 11:33 AM

"it wasn't removed by a shamefaced faculty member"
the fact is that it was removed from Duke's web site.

"it only speaks peripherally about the lacrosse players' case."
the text is unintelligible in many places, unless you assume that they talking about the duke rape case.

"Regardless of the results of the police investigation,.." "But it is a disaster" "The disaster didn't begin on March 13th"
the bit you have to know to understand these clauses is that they all refer to the Duke Hoax rape.

Oh and the "protestors making collective noise" who they thank- the potbangers and lynch mob.

It is also quite clear from comments that Lubiano made that the poster was rushed out because of the LAX scandal, and that it is all about the LAX scandal.

"The vast majority of the letter is dedicated to a discussion of the racism, sexism and prejudice these faculty members see on a daily basis at Duke. It is composed mainly of quotes from Duke students who participated in an on-campus meeting dealing with these issues."
Many of these "quotes" were recorded by Lubiano, and i doubt her objectivity, and short-hand skills. What you have here is anonymous, unsourced assertions of racism and misogyny, and a complete lack of reliable evidence. The 88 have been asked on numerous occasions to provide concrete evidence of the "racism, sexism and prejudice these faculty members see on a daily basis at Duke"; and the funny thing is, that they can't seem to find that objective evidence.

You are on record as being supportive of facts. What do you think of the 88 for their failure to provide facts ?

per

Posted by per on April 13, 2007 11:51 AM

I think the most important part of this story is that it was never about the actually so-called crime that the three students was accused of..but a media story of race, sex, class, etc. The media always talks about the "bigger story" but the real story is that 3 guys nearly went to jail for something they didn't do because the "bigger story" did not included actual prove but was motivated by politics...if the media would tell both sides of a story and not take sides people like 88 would be see in the correct light...dumb people with meaningless papers on their walls that say otherwise...some of us college students know how to read the US Constitution!

Posted by KSR for Va on April 13, 2007 12:35 PM

Katrina,

I'm not biased against the military - I've spent half my life in the military. I've seen a lot of interesting behavior in the military and if your son survives the Academy, he'll see it too. And I've seen a lot of money wasted at strip clubs by young (and not so young) men in NC and other places. Welcome to the real world.

Anyone that brings disfavor or poor publicity to the Academies - or any military branch - will get thrown under the bus. Anything that brings criticism - anything that isn't the party line. Eric Shinseki is a great example. Make a mistake in private, you'll probably get a demotion and some on base confinement. If the media finds out - you might go to the brig for a few years after a public investigation and grandstanding - blowing whatever your infraction was completely out of proportion. A drug possession by your buddy suddenly makes you a drug ring leader of an insidious crime syndicate that needs to be stamped out. I've seen it played out.

I know it's a shock to you, but many men go to strip clubs all over this country. It's not socially acceptable everywhere, but they go and it's perfectly legal to do so in the state of North Carolina - or to hire someone to strip inside your home. I can think of countless professional sports figures who are often spotted at Scores in NYC and make the gossip rags. It's all wink wink nudge nudge, but no one is sancitmoniously skewering them - or saying because they frequent strippers they somehow deserve what the Duke 3 went through.

Regarding the "skin a stripper" comment - that was NOT made by the Duke 3 (are they guilty by association???) but it was paraphrasing the book "American Psycho" which the email sender was reading as part of his syllibus. He sent the email to his classmates, not to the lax team. Newsweek was the first to report the connection a few weeks after it came to light.

The book "American Psycho" is lousy literature, I can't imagine why Duke, an elite institution of learning, would choose that book over so many other great works. But that's freedom of speech. The kid obviously didn't footnote his email (my uncle, a professor, would call that in itself a crime), and everyone jumped to conclusions. Including you.

The "multitude" of reports was just piling on innuendo and rumor. Anyway, how do you know the Duke 3 were the perpetrators of every single off-campus noise / urination / drunken incident? Even if they were, does that make them deserving of a false rape allegation, prosecutoral misconduct and character assasination?

I just don't think they "brought it on themselves" by going to a party. There is NO evidence that the Duke 3 were the ones who sent the "vile" email, or made comments outside to the strippers as they left, and there is evidence coming out that 1 of them left before the stripping started.

If "bringing it on themselves" covers any drunken party - then there are millions of men and women in this country who deserve to have false accusations made because they went to a party where other people's behavior got out of hand.

The only thing I see the family members forgiving is that they hired strippers, which is socially taboo behavior - even though it is perfectly legal.

I don't think any of them have pockets enough to handle $3million in legal bills easily. Maybe if your son is falsely accused, someone else will say that about you as the parent with the advanced degree living the american dream?

-Jana-

Posted by Jana on April 13, 2007 02:50 PM

Collin's alibi has now been published = he and others left the party minutes after the strippens arrived. That should warm the hearts of all those who claim a strip show as morally reprehensivable (I don't know how these girls are making a living in strip clubs with all the folk who hate stripping). Miles and miles of strip clubs -someone is supporting the clubs. What hypocrits !!I hope all the girls find their Marshall. Hopefully, the North East white guys will return to NOrth East school - taking of course, the beautiful white females with them. BTW, the number of slave holders prior to the civil war was miniscule - probably some had a relationship with a black woman - wholesale raping did not happen, Jesse estimated there are 600,000 unreported rapes of black women dating back 400 years. He made that up. FBI stats show that 49% of rape accussations are false. White men are rarely interested in black women, unless they look like Tyra Banks, Its black men you see with white womanm. Please, no olde South stories, Margaret Mitchell wrote it all and better, ,

Posted by lynp on April 13, 2007 03:37 PM

I return to ask all thinking and feeling Americans to refrain from using stories such as this to excuse our own hatred and/or barbaric instincts, but I am most concerned by the refusal of apparently intelligent people, like Katrina and the Duke 88, to acknowledge how false accusations provoke more racism and sexism. At first I worried that Katrina's essential point was lost in the scramble for everyone's primal need to expose raw racial nerves, but now I am convinced that her stubborn support of the Duke 88 is the essential problem. On at least one occasion, Jessie Jackson has proven before that he is capable of acknowledging when white males were falsely accused of being racists. If he were truly interested in healing racial wounds and stanching continued bloodletting, he would lead the Duke 88 in a public apology to the 3 lax players and their families. From such leadership, maybe Katrina and her provokees will be inspired to move on with their lives, which seem to favor and affirm basic decency.

Posted by Casey on April 13, 2007 05:42 PM

Katrina's writing skills may be better than average, but her reasoning skills are not. Everything she's been posting here these past couple of days is a non sequitur or /and irrelevant to the charges and facts in the case at hand.
Law and jurisprudence, despite their shortcomings, are two of the best tools we've got to discern fact from fiction, guilt from innocence, etc., in real time and real life, not in a post-modern fantasy life. It's hugely significant that, of the 88 signatories of the "manifesto," only 3 are from hard science departments; the rest are from the "humanities" departments, which have become Marxist/Stalinist /Gramscian indoctrination outlets. Duke was at the center of another major dispute, in the 90s, when physics professor Alan Sokal exposed the hoax he had perpetrated in generating a meaningless text out of fashionable language and which had passed editorial test at Duke's "Social Text." as legit imate scholarly endeavor.
Stanley Fish has a lot to answer for perverting the humanities at Duke in the 90s and changing them from repositories of and creators of knowledge to political propaganda.


Posted by Ada on April 13, 2007 07:15 PM

Those of you who went to Duke in the 90s and witnessed the totalitarian politics of socialist professors in the humanities, lead by Stanley Fish, against conservatives, please speak up. Fish initiated a propaganda mashine against conservative professors, whom he called "homophobic" and all kinds of other abusive names, while ignoring the shoddy , pathetic education and scholarship produced in the Humanities departments and in the journal "Social Text" edited by Duke, where a scientific essay submitted for publication that could have been generated by a computer loaded with post-modernist jargon and virtually meaniningless/utter nonsense, was given the green light for publication.

That's the Sokal Hoax. Check it out on the web.
Duke University keeps producing major hoaxes.
Nifong couldn't have perpetrated his hoax without the "hoax culture" at Duke 's 88 humanities enablers, where facts/evidence don't matter.


Posted by Ada on April 13, 2007 08:54 PM

As a Duke alum who has followed this case very closely since it first hit the student newspaper last March, I would suggest that anyone who wants to understand this case better and THEN draw their conclusions about these young men, Duke, Durham residents et. al. read the fine blog by Brooklyn College professor KC Johnson at www.durham-in-wonderland.com. I have not read everything posted here, but I will single out Katrina because of her well-written but inaccurate understanding of the case. A few points:
*Stripper parties, while deplorable, are extraordinarily common on college campuses, and not only for groups of males. Stripping and prostitution seem ingrained into almost all societies, so those issues are almost too large to tackle in the narrow context of this case.
*Lacrosse players may represent their university, but in reality, all students represent their university. Identified as a group, though, they actually have been slandered by the Raleigh News & Observer, their neighbors, the Group of 88 and others. The Coleman Committee report indicated that Duke lacrosse players did not have any significant differences in arrests, etc. as compared to the student body as a whole, and that their overall records (including academic achievement and community service contributions) were above average.
*Durham police have targeted Duke students disproportionately, and multiple members of its force have perjured themselves in this case, so I wouldn't put much stock in their accounts.
*The players had specifically requested a white and Latina stripper, but instead were sent two black ones. Thus, hardly can it be said that they were out to degrade/harm black women. Sexists? Perhaps. Racists? No, and also not according to black teammates past and present. See the pictures of the party, too: they're really not into it.
*The only racial comment flung by a Duke student came in response to a racist comment from the 2nd stripper, which she herself admitted.
*The "disgusting" e-mail about skinning a stripper was a clear reference to American Psycho, which is taught in multiple classes at Duke. That student's privacy rights may have been illegally violated.
*There is so much wrong about the "victim," Crystal Gail Mangum, that I don't know where to begin, but on that night she had consumed a combination of alcohol and a powerful muscle relaxant and was quite intoxicated. She fabricated multiple versions of gang rape, but only after it being suggested to her and only to keep from being locked up due to her intoxication. She also had had an accusation of gang rape dismissed in the past, which was basically treated as fantasy. The Attorney General alluded to her disturbed mental faculties in his statement.
*The Group of 88 not only has publicly defamed their own students, but has perhaps opened up the University to civil liability depending on whether they used University funds for their activities.
*Duke's President Brodhead and the Board of Trustees have much to be ashamed of, not least of all their cowardice in confronting clear lies spun by the District Attorney and in their cowardly refusal to either loudly proclaim the presumption of innocense (and back it up) or to take on entities such as the local press and their own professors and refute their rush to judgment.

I could go on for pages, but I think Professor Johnson outshines me by a mile. Do not make presumptions about a situation that you only know from afar: this is a case where the desire to fight injustice and various -isms is misled down a hole from which it cannot emerge. The accused are, and are pronounced by the State, innocent, and no arguing about their alleged bad behavior of any kind means anything. They were falsely accused of horrible crimes for which the sentence is decades in jail, and it was only because of their financial and emotional resources that they were able to stave off a gross miscarriage of justice. Our appropriate outrage for true victims would be best served by making sure all those accused, with resources or not, get fair trials and that district attorneys don't get away with tactics like hiding evidence.

Posted by Michael Weiner on April 14, 2007 12:20 AM

People, people, you are turning this into a dialogue with Kratina. Can't you people tell the difference between fair argument and logorrhea?

Do you need to keep paying so much attention to yet another accuser of those 3 students who themselves might never have committed even the minor infractions that she/he keeps bringing up?

To the 3: I don't know how well you will be able to overcome the stupid self-congratulatory prejudices of so many of us (such as KKKratina), but I join you in asking: what of those who don't have the resources to defend themselves from a prejudiced "justice" system?

Your fight was on behalf not only of yourselves but also of countless indigent people wrongly accused every day.

Posted by EnoughCrap on April 14, 2007 12:41 PM

What do you expect from a bunch of left wing "tenured" college professors. An apology? The only thing that matters is the 3 accused players "fit the template" in their bigoted, academic minds.

Posted by clay campbell on April 14, 2007 04:48 PM

Oops, posting so late last night (>2 a.m. my time), I got KC's blog address wrong. It's http://durhamwonderland.blogspot.com. Enjoy reading up...

Posted by Michael Weiner on April 14, 2007 07:07 PM

Just to repeat the observation that of the 88 Duke faculty, only a few were scientists. Most scientific faculty take a more moderate view of the world. You can't solve an equation or do an experiment or look for cures for diseases, armed just with Cumbayah and social theory. Unfortunately the scientists are usually too busy while the left has all the time in the world to take over the universities. Also scientists doubt everything and thus are willing to listen to all sides, while the lefties know everything and brook no nonsense if the facts get in their way!

Posted by David on April 14, 2007 10:19 PM

Hey Ray at 204pm on 4-12, as a conservative I was supporting you against Katrina until I read that stupid comment you made about being able to be drunk and perform sports at a high level..

two words for you..Mickey Mantle.

Youth is wasted on the young.

I think her point is many lacrosse players were not good citizens. While that does not excuse false allegations of rape, showing lack of respect for others and living at a place where people clearly showed no humility in life makes you more likely to get falsely accused of stuff and put in the position they were in. My guess is the day to day behavior of anyone on the lacrosse team changed after these allegations were made. That is the only good to come out of it.

Posted by Jeremy on April 15, 2007 10:20 AM

We can only hope these kids learn something, anything from all this. I bet you haven't heard about this - the MSM seems to be ignoring this completely.

Only Katrina's posts are referencing this.

I wonder how much the moms and dads from the lax team had already paid to lawyers BEFORE last March???

From the News-Observer:

The warning signs of a Duke University lacrosse team skidding toward disaster are scattered through the courthouse records of Durham and Orange counties — and have been for at least the past seven years. Speeding down I-40 while drunk. Urinating in public. Using an adult’s ID to buy a case of beer while underage. Kicking in the slats of a fence after an argument with a girlfriend.

Since 1999, records show, 41 Blue Devil lacrosse players — about 31 percent of all players on the roster from then until now — have been charged with a variety of rowdy and drunken acts.

Of this year’s squad of 47 players — their season canceled, their coach exiled and their university shamed — roughly a third have been charged with similar misdemeanors.

In contrast, records show, only two members of Duke’s 27-man soccer squad for this year have been arrested — on charges of misdemeanor property damage and resisting arrest. Four of this year’s 22 baseball players have been arrested in connection with underage alcohol offenses, all misdemeanors, records show.

None of the misdemeanor charges encompasses the ugliness of team member Ryan McFadyen’s searing e-mail in which he threatened to kill and skin strippers or a racially provocative insult shouted by an unidentified white male on Buchanan Boulevard the night of the team party.

Apparently neither Bradley nor his 60 Minutes research team could uncover these facts that a simple search in the News & Observer for “Collin Finnerty arrest” unveiled. In the same article by the three News & Observer writers we find additional damning pieces of evidence left by the wayside by major media outlets including CBS:

“There is a culture at Duke of an entitlement to be drunk in the evenings and on the weekends,” said Robert Panoff, a former Notre Dame club lacrosse player who has lived for more than a decade in Trinity Park, the neighborhood on the edge of Duke’s east campus where the lacrosse team captains lived.

“That’s the attitude that pervades the Duke campus, and it’s not just the lacrosse team,” said Panoff, founder and executive director of a nonprofit research and education organization. “There is a particular swagger at Duke. Is there a particular machismo and variation of that swagger on the lacrosse team? Absolutely.”

Posted by An Interested Observer on April 15, 2007 08:07 PM

Sure, we all hope that all kids from all campuses learn something from this. But adults should also be asking themselves about the dangers of crying wolf against rape and racism. The severity of these barbaric assaults against humanity diminishes in the court of public opinion when launched by false accusations, followed by knee-jerk support of wrongful prosecution. We encourage rape and racism when we support and encourage false accusations.

And yes, 60 Minutes can never tell "the whole" of any story, but their producers and editors deserve plaudits for honing on the essence of this one.

Posted by on April 16, 2007 06:37 AM

Again, we already knew from countless sources that a number of lacrosse players had been involved in misc. rowdy behaviors.

Again, we already knew that a lot of sports players at this and other universities across the world sometimes behave badly.

Again, the relevant question is:
Were the accused kids among those behaving badly?

If you have substantiated info on that, then cough it up, else, you are typing words at random in the hope that some people are too stupid to know the difference.

Posted by ihatestupidity on April 16, 2007 06:07 PM

Duke has some 2,500 full-time faculty. So these 88 profs represent about 3.5% of the faculty - hardly a representative sample. They are pariahs on the campus, and some have already left (far left?) the school. Katrina's experience in the mid-80s hardly reflects the atmosphere at the 8th ranked (just after Penn and ahead of Chicago/Columbia/Dartmouth) school in the nation. The school is 42 percent minority now, ma'am. Please feel free to come back anytime and see the diverse, successful and proud young faces on the campus you see fit to disparage with your half-baked generalities from two decades ago.

Posted by Steve on April 16, 2007 08:37 PM

The names of the 88 should be posted in the WEB, distributed to newspapers and posted in bullettin boards at Duke

Posted by Mario Martini on April 18, 2007 02:11 PM

Katrina...your thoughts on the two white University of Tennessee students kipnapped and tortured and murdered by five black males and one black female last month. How bad was the torture? They poured Drano down her mouth to remove DNA evidence. You knew the Rocky Mountain News wouldn't cover this story Katrina.

Posted by Pat on April 18, 2007 05:38 PM

Not guilty does not always mean innocent. (Remember an OJ verdict anyone?) Here are some quotes that no-one disputes:

From "The Smoking Gun" APRIL 5--Shortly after an exotic dancer claimed she was raped at a Duke University lacrosse team party, a member of the squad sent an e-mail announcing that the following night he planned "to have some strippers over" and would be "killing the bitches" as soon as they walked into his dorm room. Disclosure of the e-mail came today with the unsealing of a March 27 search warrant for the residence of Ryan McFadyen, a sophomore lacrosse player. …The e-mail from McFadyen's account notes that, after the strippers were killed, they would be skinned while the author was "cumming in my duke issue spandex."

The boy’s language does not excuse prosecutorial misconduct, but it does seem fair to say that these young men did not do much to help their own case in this regard. Also, it might also seem fair to assume that given the widespread publication of overtly misogynistic statements, that yes, there might be a bit of misogyny and racism on the Duke campus. Isn’t that what the faculty condemned? Why does that make them liberal? I used to remember when conservative meant that one stood up for morality and prudence.

Posted by anavydoc on May 1, 2007 12:37 AM

On the same day (6/11/07 and both in the Drudge Report) your news release said: "Denver targets global warming", and 7 News said the temperature in Denver fell to 31 deg. , setting a new record low for the date. in Canada, they have had record lows, some breaking 70 year records. The same is true of Africa and other places on our globe. In 1974, the Newsweek magazzine thought a Little Ice Age was approaching, cautioning that it could be worse than global warming, in many ways. There are many respected scientists who beoieve that man's "carbon footprint" is having a negligible impact on our weather. Media and Al Gore may be getting way out on a limb.

Posted by F. Bankston on June 11, 2007 02:42 PM

The robes of academia have replaced the sheets of the KKK, with a different set of vicitims, virtual lynchings, but greater overall devastation. These thugs need to be shamed into the same dark corner of our society inhabited by the slimy remnants of the KKK.

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