Discussion

• September 28, 2006

  8:18 AM

  R Schleiger writes:

  When will people finally understand that the police will not protect us. If we want to be protected from criminals and wackos, we need to make the effort to train and be able to use firearms. Every teacher at every school should be trained and armed. If teachers had guns, this incident would have ended with only the criminal dead.

  Metal detectors and more loss of our freedoms will NEVER help us be safe. The only way we will be safe is for us - the people - to take on the responsibility of protecting ourselves and those around us. It is time we took this responsibility back from the those in government that do such a bad job of handling it.

• September 28, 2006

  8:20 AM

  Joe Mack writes:

  Ok...the shooter was a male, featherless bi-ped...What RACE was he???
  We, all of us want to know! What kind of newspaper are you?
  May the readers ALWAYS assume the perp is Black is race is not mentioned?

  Joe Mack
  

• September 28, 2006

  8:27 AM

  Mark Wolf writes:

  The killer is expected to be named this morning. Don't know his race but believe he's white. Certainly wouldn't assume he's black if a race not specified.

• September 28, 2006

  8:27 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  Arm teachers?Bad idea.We will end up seeing a dramatic rise in school shootings.Teaching is a high stress situation today.We will see alot of teachers going off the deep end and shooting students.I guess that's one way to raise the CSAP scores.

• September 28, 2006

  8:31 AM

  RAMONA VERDETTO-LYCKOWSKI writes:

  I use to live in Bailey and go to PCHS in the 80's. Unreal for this guy to go into the school and do what he did. That school back in the day was fun to go to and ya never heard of stuff like this going on. I feel so bad for the family and the students and the parents. Im sorry the town of Bailey has to deal too. Guess Bailey wont be the same.It was an original school out in the middle of no where in the Colorado Mts. I reside in Scranton,Pa. now.
  You are all in my thoughts and prayers. TAKE CARE AND GOD BLESS. Jgordonluvr@juno.com
  if anyone needs someone to talk to.

• September 28, 2006

  8:45 AM

  Joe Valenti writes:

  Couldn't the police wait? When the SWAT team entered is when the girl got shot. I think this is a good example of not waiting out the situation. From what has been reported, there was no one harmed until the police raided the classroom.

• September 28, 2006

  8:46 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  The guy said he was gonig to shoot one of them at 4pm. Once again, another dunce liberal that wants the cops to sit one out and hear the thugs gripes about the unjust society. So glad you sallys are losing power daily.

• September 28, 2006

  8:48 AM

  Margarita writes:

  We need to do sometihing better for keep our yung people safe please, God Bless everybody, I feel sorry ,

• September 28, 2006

  8:50 AM

  NRA writes:

  Joe V-
  The police took the blame for not going into Columbine fast enough. Now look what happened. Damned if you do.....
  Guns don't kill people - NRA.

• September 28, 2006

  8:55 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  Bring back traditional Roman Catholic Schools. Religious Instruction is paramount.

• September 28, 2006

  8:59 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  Colorado loves it's public schools and it loves to tease and demean men in general. This is the end result of men being teased verbally by females. Colorado schools are ground zero for abusive language towards people especially from women. That is my guess as to why this loser snapped. Total rejection from females in general and total rejection at work by females. Then the homosexuals pile on and side with the female bullies and then scratch their heads as to why men snap physically. Colorado may be a great place to vacation but it's public schools are not healthy places to learn. Colorado corporations are worse than any high school as far as abusive language goes. Maybe it was harry palm finally snapping. No surprise this happened in Colorado.

• September 28, 2006

  9:05 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  Yet it's adults that make violent movies, music and video games. This guy reacted to his environment. Violence begets violence. The police did the best they could under the circumstances unless they shot the girl by accident and are covering it up which would not surprise me. Locking kids in a school which is what happens now is just dumb. They should be able to bolt as soon as they here gun shots.

• September 28, 2006

  9:08 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  "Bring back traditional Roman Catholic Schools. Religious Instruction is paramount."

  Why so priests can continue to rape boys? The Catholic church is not the answer. Less violence in tv, movies, music and video games is a start.

• September 28, 2006

  9:08 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  I agree with Joe Valenti,

  I distinctly remember the police getting torn apart for not entering Columbine soon enough.

  Yet now they are railed on for not waiting. Come on people, in both cases the police involved did what they thought was right. The police should not be blamed in either incident.

• September 28, 2006

  9:10 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  Joe V.--
  From what was reported the killer was to shoot someone at 4 PM, and he had already sexually assaulted some of them. It's a terrible situation, but I'm not sure we should blame the police for the young lady dying. They may have made the wrong decision, but maybe the right one, hell the guy had a semi-auto weapon and at 4 PM he might have opened fire and killed everyone in there, you never know. Hindsight is the only thing thats 20/20.

• September 28, 2006

  9:10 AM

  EC writes:

  Guns absolutely kill people.

• September 28, 2006

  9:15 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  I don't blame the police unless they actually shot the girl which they deny. Colorado girls are so disrespectful and mean spirited these days and that may have pushed the loser over the edge. Instead of looking at the police Coloradoans should take a look at what is causing so much rage among men and boys that live in Colorado.

• September 28, 2006

  9:18 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  Drink drivers kill more people than guns do. Let's ban cars and clean up the air we breath.

• September 28, 2006

  9:18 AM

  Elwood writes:

  People kill people! Guns, knives, cars, bombs, etc. are just the tools used by Killers.

• September 28, 2006

  9:19 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  It is all about protecting ourselves in this day and age, unfortunately. I was stalked and it seemed that my stalker had more rights and protection than I did. I had to wait for something to happen to me before they could do anything! Insane!

• September 28, 2006

  9:19 AM

  JW writes:

  "Couldn't the police wait? When the SWAT team entered is when the girl got shot. I think this is a good example of not waiting out the situation. From what has been reported, there was no one harmed until the police raided the classroom."

  Its a crap shoot either way. You can wait, and maybe the guy lets everyone go, or you can wait, and maybe he kills them all. You can go to the back of the plane as directed, and maybe the terrorists fly you to Argentina. You can go to the back of the plane as the terrorists direct, and maybe they fly you into a building.

  Bottom line, if I am ever in one of these situations, I'm not waiting.

  And, my kids will be taking martial arts from the time they are 5. Some jerk taps them on the shoulder with a gun and says "stay", they will take it away and break his face for him.

• September 28, 2006

  9:24 AM

  EC writes:

  Take guns out of the situation and here's what happens:

  Crazy man enters high school with a KNIFE

  Enters class room and tells kids to line up at chalk board

  2-3 high school students knock him down and end it!

  Guns are unstoppable killing machines. They shouldn't be in the hands of anybody except for law enforcement and military. Nothing good can come out of any civilian having access to a gun.

• September 28, 2006

  9:25 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  "Face of Murder
  Dwayne Morrison, 54, the gunman who took six female students hostage at a Colorado high school."

  Looks like the police may have waited too long. This wass a rapist with no ties to the school. This was random bad luck for the school.

• September 28, 2006

  9:27 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  EC

  What if the police actually shot the girl? It would not surpise me.

• September 28, 2006

  9:31 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  Something does not set right with me about the police's version of the story. They are changing it up too much in my opinion.

• September 28, 2006

  9:31 AM

  EC writes:

  "What if the police actually shot the girl? It would not surpise me."

  That would be terrible, but the whole situation would be avoided if psychos like this guy couldn't get ahold of a gun. He couldn't hold a classroom hostage with a knife. This happens way too often.

• September 28, 2006

  9:34 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  "Police also said armed law enforcement eventually moved in on Morrison because he was sexually "traumatizing" the victims during negotiations with police. FOX News has learned that the girls were not being raped but there was inappropriate touching occurring."

  So the loser did not actually rape the girls. I flat out don't believe the police version now. If you look at a girl the wrong way these days she will say you assaulted her.

• September 28, 2006

  9:37 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  EC,
  Take the gun out of the equation and you get a crazy with a home-made bomb causing even more death and destruction.

• September 28, 2006

  9:40 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  September 28, 2006 09:37 AM

  You do have a valid point there. I think it was the police that actually shot the girl by mistake and are covering it up.

• September 28, 2006

  9:42 AM

  Dirk Gently writes:

  Taking all guns away outright means that only criminals have them. Guns are superfluous in our country--banning them is not a solution to curb gun violence. Cat's out of the back there, folks.

  Also, media violence has NEVER been positively shown to have widespread media effects. If any media were directly responsible for begetting violence, we would all be much more violent. AT BEST media may serve as a trigger (idea generator) for those already committed to violence.

  The best we could have hoped for to prevent this situation (and others like it in the future) is to hire well trained security to patrol the halls.

  The harsh reality is this: we can't legislate away crazies. People will always snap, and when they do, someone else will probably get hurt.

• September 28, 2006

  9:43 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  This is a personal tragedy for all the students and parents involved, and all you people can do is use it as a forum to espouse your personal, political dirty laundry and opinions. Nobody cares what you selfish pricks think happened, or what your opinions on guns and crazy people are.

  Using this as a forum to bash others is reprehensible.

• September 28, 2006

  9:44 AM

  Dirk Gently writes:

  9:47: I wondered that, too. They claim that he fired at them once, then he shot the girl, then he shot himself. I dunno...it seems somewhat fishy to me that he'd try to shoot at the police first before committing murder/suicide. If he's convinced he won't be able to take them, why'd he waste a shot at them at all?

• September 28, 2006

  9:45 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  Dirk lives in a world of delusion.

  
  http://preventdisease.com/news/articles/video_games_make_kids_fat_violent.shtml

• September 28, 2006

  9:46 AM

  JW writes:

  "Using this as a forum to bash others is reprehensible."

  Then stop doing it.

• September 28, 2006

  9:48 AM

  Lucy writes:

  this is beyond sad. It scares me to know i am in highschool right now and this could happen here. i pray for the parents of the girl and everyone else.

• September 28, 2006

  9:49 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  Dirk

  The police's story sounds fishy to me too but if the police did not shoot the girl then they did the best they could under the circumstances. The police version just does not add up for me. Too many inconsistencies and them changing their story. Not guilty people have one story only.

• September 28, 2006

  9:52 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  September 28, 2006 09:43 AM

  Yet you bash! Look why are men so angry at women in Colorado? What leads to rape? What if the police accidentally shot the girl? Those are important issues.

• September 28, 2006

  10:08 AM

  Dirk Gently writes:

  9:45: Firs of all, this is a journalistic summary of the article, not the article itself. Therefore we have to be careful about the context of the claims made.

  But to the meat of the matter. Pedriatics scholars have been publishing about media violence for decades. I've read about 30 or so articles in this vein. They set up the same tired methodologies and the same means of "monitoring" and frankly it doesn't wash, in my book.

  Pointedly, pedriatrics scholars are not media scholars. They wouldn't know media theory if it were shoved down their throat. (Would we trust a media scholar to be fully rigorous and accurate in publishing on childhood diseases?) In short: their unequivocal claims about media effects are methodologically and theoretically problematic, to say the least.

  That is not to say there isn't ANY effect (to state otherwise is preposterous). Clearly there are media effects, but: results of media effects are very difficult to generalize; because we assume multiple factors in any person's conduct, we cannot be certain of the precise degree to which any one factor is to blame in isolated incidents of violence. So by no means does the research of such folks (who, incidentally, churn out these articles with a high degree of agenda-setting in mind) prove once and for all the precise degree of correlation.

  That said, I think the article you linked to does make a good point about how a constant diet of gaming and little else will obviously have SOME cognitive effects, and it also seems they are correct about the high correlation between playing too many games and high rates of obesity and related problems.

  About the prospect of the SWAT team cover-up: I reiterate that something's a bit fishy, but for the moment I'll wager that their version of events is the most likely. Also, I really, really HOPE that they did not accidentally shoot that girl. It would probably be best for everyone if that is the "truth" that we all stick to.

• September 28, 2006

  10:13 AM

  chuck writes:

  I think the police are not telling the whole story, they say he cut off negotiations? Why did they breach? could they hear the girls being raped? I am sure that girl would have prefered to live through the rape than to be shot. The shcool could not be that secure I would be sure they could have been in a next room listening or even taken the breach through windows or something. Sounds like the breach caused the guy to have no choice but to shoot to kill.

• September 28, 2006

  10:14 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  Dirk

  I don't believe in covering-up anything. If the police accidently shot the girl they need to be held accountable in a court of law. I am leaning 65% to 35% that the police actually shot the girl and are lying about it.

  There is no doubt violent images and abusive language causes violence:

  http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/03/29/MN65503.DTL

• September 28, 2006

  10:25 AM

  Park County accounting office writes:

  @#$%^&* Park County doesn't have enough cash on hand or cash in the future to pay for this law suit. Here comes gambling to Bailey to bail this one out. Can we get some tobacco settlement cash here too! I hear locals coughing from here.

• September 28, 2006

  10:30 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  Oh yes, it's all political isn't it?

  Well here's some politics for you...

  The weak on crime Democrats have one again taken their toll on society.

  When the facts come out on this piece-o-sh1t we're all going to see that he had charge, after charge, conviction, after conviction and all our big socialist government did was "rehabilitate" him and give him another chance to harm society.

  Will Colorado question Bill Ritter's plea bargain rate now?

• September 28, 2006

  10:30 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  "I think the police are not telling the whole story, they say he cut off negotiations? Why did they breach? could they hear the girls being raped?"

  No girl was raped just touched inappropriately whatever that means. All touching if you are being held hostage is inappropriate. I think the police are lying on their version of what happened. I'm not defending the loser but if the police accidentally shot the girl the truth should not be covered up.

• September 28, 2006

  10:34 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  You want to get tough on crime? Throw most of the Republicans in prison. Fact is crime carried out by women increased 1,000% in Colorado under the Republican reign of terror.

• September 28, 2006

  10:36 AM

  Dirk Gently writes:

  10:14: Once again, we'd have to read the full article to get a better sense of their methodology and whatever equivocation these scholars make. Although once again--color me skeptical.

  The main thing about this, or any other study of its kind, for or against the "violent media begets violence" thesis, is this: what YOU are suggesting is causation. What the authors here talk about is association. These are two very distinct terms. Association refers to a statistical link between two variables, but does not connote causation. Further, I want to point out two passages in that article:

  1. "'It is always possible that violence-prone children are more likely to find violent television appealing and watch it more often,' said Jack Levin, director of the Brudnick Center on Violence at Northeastern University in Boston." Levin suggests that the association is high, but ultimately the study may not have hurdled the age-old chicken-egg debate here.

  2. "Levin, who has written books and articles on murder, youth violence and school massacres, said the study was nevertheless valuable because it tracked youngsters for such a long time, showing that the cumulative effect of television 'is connected to aggressive behavior,' if not the main cause."

  The "if not the main cause" part is what the journalist said, not the scientist. We don't know for certain whether Levin feels that way unequivocally or not.

  Let me reiterate, for the record, that I'm open to the notion that being exposed to high amounts of media violence begets violent acts. But I'm skeptical that this has been proven outright, I'm skeptical that media violence would "turn" a non-violent person violent, and I'm skeptical that eliminating violent acts in media would have any impact at all on rates of violent crime. What's more, there's the issue of what "violence" is: graphic fictionalizations, news footage of war, explosions (sans human carnage), torture, verbal/physical abuse, etc. What KIND of violence is inappropriate? We don't know.

  So in the meantime I'd much rather focus my energies on the much more significant aspects of violent crime: poverty, education, etc.

  As for the shooting conspiracy: I think your point is fair enough. I'm persuaded that if the SWAT team is guilty, prosecutions are in order.
  

• September 28, 2006

  10:37 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  10:34 you're a waste of a wind bag.

  Got any more emotion lacking facts?

• September 28, 2006

  10:41 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  One thing that struck me as really odd was,during the press conference the head of the police department said he had not spoken with the family yet.Huh?That doesn't make sense if this is a close knit everyone knows everyone community.

  Also this guy must have been on hell of a fast shooter.By the police accounts so far, he shot at the SWAT team, turned the gun away from them,swung it back to shoot the girl in the back of the head as she was running away,and then shot himself.Pictures sometimes tell a story and this guy in the picture looks a little slow.

• September 28, 2006

  10:42 AM

  Kat writes:

  My sincerest condolences to the family and friends of Emily Keyes and to the community of Bailey CO.

  You can tell from Emily's picture that she was a innocent, darling teenager and her life was cut too short. I hope, pray and know that she's in a better place. Free of life's predestrain ignorances and surrounded by loved.

  I just hate that these tradegies happen. The impact is felt far and wide. More than any of us realize. How we react to them is the measure of our existence.

  This shouldn't happen. It is an extremely painful time indeed.

• September 28, 2006

  10:50 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  "So in the meantime I'd much rather focus my energies on the much more significant aspects of violent crime: poverty, education, etc."

  Violent images over time cause harmful chemical changes in the body.

  http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/050811_attention_problem.html

  Education has nothing to do with honesty. Some of the worst scumbags I know have college degrees. Drugs, violent images, violent language, teasing, bullying, poor role models, corruption and poverty all cause violent behavior over time.

• September 28, 2006

  10:57 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  "darling teenager and her life was cut too short. "

  Especially if the police shot her by accident.

• September 28, 2006

  11:02 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060928/ap_on_he_me/food_ads_kids

  FCC to study ads, kids' weight for link.

  The loser may have lived in Bailey before. Why are so many Colorado males angy? Certainly Colorado women can never do anything wrong can they?

  http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1290372006

• September 28, 2006

  11:03 AM

  Lefty writes:

  Christ 10:30-
  What rock do you live under? It's the Republicans who take millions from the NRA to keep guns in everyone's house. You want guns, you got them and have to live with the consequences.
  And another thing 10:30- It's the Republican controlled congress that is cutting VA benefits to our soldiers coming home from the Bush induced personal revenge oil take over in Iraq. These guys don't have mental health benefits and some will have some kind of post stress disorder, won't be able get diagnosed and help and then look out, they have been trained to kill people. So next time you lash out at Dems, think again shit for brains, it's the Republicans who are pulling the trigger.

• September 28, 2006

  11:12 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  More violence and corruption under the Republican reign of terror then at any time in history. High home prices and a failing economy. The USA is hated around the world more than ever before. 9/11 was a false flag operation and gas prices have tripled.

  Looks like the Democrats worst problem is they are sexual freaks and along with the Republicans refuse to curb illegal immigration.

  I still think the police shot the girl by accident.

• September 28, 2006

  11:16 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  Democrats commit sexual crimes and Republicans commit war crimes. Both are bad.

• September 28, 2006

  11:21 AM

  Kat writes:

  And now for my rant. I left my sincerest condolences for Emily Keyes already and just feel awful about what happened to her.

  Altho, I'm appalled at the number of inconsiderate comments left on this board. I have to wonder what everyone's age is - chronologically and emotionally.

  How dare you judge what the police did or didn't do!!! Were you there? Do you know what they heard or didn't hear in the unfortunate classroom? Do you know the terror that the released hostages were reporting of what was occuring? How dare you judge.

  How many of you have sound judgment in a crisis situation? It's easy to surmise from the comfort of your TV. But, if you had any empathy, understanding or just plain common sense - you would realize (and must) that this Sheriff is in total pain to his core and is already questioning his own decision. Was he right or wrong?

  He'll be haunted by it every day and you should thank god that he's stepping up to the plate to be criticized - that takes more love, pain and conscience than you inconsiderate posters will ever have.

  Not once have I seen an ounce of bravado from him. What I see is - is a soul that is being terribly ripped apart with 'what ifs'. How dare you condemn him and the situation he was in. Tell me from what first-hand experience do you have the right to judge?

  I'm so terribly disappointed in people and society as a whole. This should be about support for the hostages remaining, the community and Emily Keyes.

  Not your uneducated judgments.

• September 28, 2006

  11:27 AM

  Dirk Gently writes:

  10:50: I'm not sure why you think the article you posted is germane to the conversation, since it merely talks about the short term effects of "stimulating imagery" on our attention span and cognitive functions.

  My point about education is in relation to poverty: violent criminals (not the people who snap) are more apt to be less educated. This is merely because higher education means better job prospects and higher pay. I for one am very skeptical about schools' current abilities to train critical, moral thinking.

  I would say many of the things you listed DO contribute to violence over time, and we could list a few more. That's why I oppose knee-jerk anti-media violence campaigns, because from my point of view media violence, though a problem, is not as pertinent as other factors.

• September 28, 2006

  11:30 AM

  gr8fuldude writes:

  Kat - I could not agree more. Nor do I think it appropriate at this time to turn this into a forum for Monday Morning Quarterbacking, mens/women's issues, gun control, the governor's race, or the ever popular conservative/liberal bashing.

  My condolences to all involved. May we all get through this and be able to bolster each other during this time.

• September 28, 2006

  11:32 AM

  Kevin Jones writes:

  "Threatening that he had a bomb and waving a pistol, the suspect took over a classroom filled with students. He ordered the boys out then sexually assaulted some of the remaining six girls, according to a law enforcement source."

  Disgusting.

  Those boys are going to be tearing themselves up for not trying to play the hero. Knee-jerk pacifism has been beaten into many of us. I wonder if our activist-induced timidity at the sight of a gun simply enables scum like this shooter.

• September 28, 2006

  11:38 AM

  J. G. writes:

  Dirk-
  What do the Germans have to do with it? - Jackie Gleason in Smokey and the Bandit.
  

• September 28, 2006

  11:40 AM

  harry palm writes:

  If anything it should serve as a reminder on why they system needs to quit being so criminal friendly and start identifying these people before they can act. This guy has a 30 year criminal record. I bet if he would have sold some dope instead of commited violent crimes they would have locked him up!! (Thats sarcasm for you chumps that dont understand my rhetoric).
  

• September 28, 2006

  11:40 AM

  michael p writes:

  what is wrong with you people? A poor girl is dead. Her family has lost her forever. Her friends and classmates lives will never be the same. And you're turning this into a political argument? This is embarassing.

  I'm not from Colorado, not from the States actually, but couldn't help but be interested in the story. In the end, the police aren't to blame, the gun laws aren't to blame, neither are the Republicans or the Democrats.

  This is the work of one man. If it wasn't a gun, he could have claimed to have a bomb and achieved the exact same thing.

  Let's lay the blame on the person responsbile and stop turning this poor victim into a political opportunity, it's wrong and anyone that does it should be ashamed of themselves.

• September 28, 2006

  11:46 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  Kat

  Get over yourself. I have seen police lie through there teeth after committing crimes. I have seen that on more than one ocassion with my own eyes. I find the police version shady and inconsistent and I would not be surprised one bit if SWAT accidentally shot the girl and are lying about it. We as taxpayers have every right to question the police as they are employed by us. I demand police be a cut above the general scumbags. The police are not Gods. If they did not accidentally shoot the girl they have nothing to worry about. The whole "how dare you judge" angle is tired and worn. Yes, we have the right to judge people by their actions. It's called keeping yourself safe. I would not associate with you outside of this blog Kat but you would probably force me to. Let's discuss the root causers of violence. Police brutality is a very real problem.

• September 28, 2006

  11:47 AM

  LJ writes:

  Harry, I absolutely hate it when I agree with you, but the point about if the perp had sold drugs, he would have gotten time is dead on the money.
  That CO has become a state where you can have a DUI and kill somebody and STILL have a Drivers License, you can rape and pillage and get anything but a lengthy sentence, but if you have/sell/use drugs you are locked up and the key is thrown away.
  This is so not a Rep/Dem issue anymore.
  The people need to take back the government, which was once taught in history class as being for the people, by the people, but not anymore - it was too complex for the CSAP

• September 28, 2006

  11:50 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  " In the end, the police aren't to blame, the gun laws aren't to blame, neither are the Republicans or the Democrats."

  The police are to blame if they accidentally shot the girl! It's a copout to say this was just one man. His actions are indicative of a sick culture of death and violence that permeates throughout the USA. It's also a ref flag on the relations between men and women living in the USA.

• September 28, 2006

  11:51 AM

  LJ writes:

  All of the other comments aside, my sincere condolences to the Keyes family - Columbine is still very fresh in my memory, as those close to me lost their child in the school.
  We are experiencing too many home-grown terrorists, and losing too many innocent lives in the process.

• September 28, 2006

  11:54 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  "This is merely because higher education means better job prospects and higher pay. I for one am very skeptical about schools' current abilities to train critical, moral thinking."

  We agree! Miracle!

• September 28, 2006

  12:32 PM

  Cindy Sanders writes:

  My heart goes out to the community of Bailey. My dad was killed at Columbine High School 7 years ago. Tragedies are going to happen, no matter how prepared we think we are. God bless and live everyday to the fullest, because you never know if it will be your last!!

  Love Cindy

• September 28, 2006

  12:51 PM

  PW writes:

  I think that anyone trying to claim a coverup by the police should remember that a little thing called ballistic tests will quickly prove which gun the lethal bullet came from. Don't jump to conclusions because of a change in the story at such an early stage in the investigation. Not all the facts are known by the spokespeople when they make their press appearances.

• September 28, 2006

  12:54 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  The tragedy is not trying to find the root causes of violence.

  People do not want to face the truth about Columbine.

  Public schools and a sadistic culture of death, hatred of God, media violence and hatred of good men that causes a lot of violence in my opinion.

• September 28, 2006

  12:54 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  "The police are to blame if they accidentally shot the girl! It's a copout to say this was just one man. His actions are indicative of a sick culture of death and violence that permeates throughout the USA. It's also a ref flag on the relations between men and women living in the USA."

  The police made a tactical decision to go in there. Did they make a mistake? I don't know and you don't know. The one thing we know is there was a reason the SWAT team was there. It was due to the hostage taking gun-branding moron in the school. If he wasn't there, they wouldn't have been and she'd be alive. This is like a guy breaking into your house and blaming you when your dog bites him.

  His actions are not indicitave of a "sick culture" or "ref flag on the relations between men and women", they're the actions of 1 criminal. Your country is better without him. Unfortunately his actions led to an innocent girl leaving the world with him.

  Some of you read too much into criminal activities. We had a similar one in Montreal not too long ago. Everyone here blamed the internet, music, video games, etc. No one ever blames the criminal anymore. I played violent video games growing up, my favourite movie is Scarface, I haven't shot anyone. If I did it wouldn't be because of Al Pacino's portrayal of Tony Montana.

  Until people like you start blaming the criminal and stop babying everyone this will continue to happen.

  I'm not a Republican and hate the fact that you're making me sound like one.
  

• September 28, 2006

  1:01 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  to the annoymous poster who posted:
  -------------------------------------------------
  Kat

  Get over yourself. I have seen police lie through there (their) teeth after committing crimes. I have seen that on more than one ocassion with my own eyes. I find the police version shady and inconsistent and I would not be surprised one bit if SWAT accidentally shot the girl and are lying about it. We as taxpayers have every right to question the police as they are employed by us.
  -------------------------------------
  And there you go judging again. I've had my own encounters with the police - I have been and always and will be a 'wild-child' and anti-authority or organized 'anything' mentality is my middle name. I've been treated fairly and at other times not. Altho I've learned from my experiences that each situation is it own entity and not to judge from a knee jerk reaction - but from a 'until you walk in their shoes....'. and apply common sense you can you judge.

  I'm not saying the police actions shouldn't be questioned - for at minimum to improve upon how it could be handled better in the future. And I by my observations to date I believe that the individuals in this situation, did what they thought was the best that they could do at the time. No malice, no power-play agendas, but with the best intentions for all. To condemn and pass judgment at this juncture is just plain stupid.

  With your thought process in mind, are you going to condemn the released hostages and the community at whole for not reacting in an appropriate nor heroic manner (god I hope not.) Do you not get it? We're all human, not perfect and have different primal reactions in crisis - it's the intentions that should be considered.

  We don't know the immediate details of what happened . So until that part of the tragic event occurs - and it will - again, I say - you do not have the right to judge, condemn nor imply that what was done was wrong.

  When I came to this forum TODAY, I thought it was about supporting the good decent people of Bailey CO and Emily Keyes family and friends, but I was assaulted with politcally, self-centered and pre-judged motivated post.

  So in your words "get over yourself" and take a second to provide compassionate support the for individuals in involved. Because for that is what is missing in our society. It's easy to point fingers.

  Oh, and yes, you have infuriated me. Thank you - it's easy to get angry.

• September 28, 2006

  1:05 PM

  David (R) writes:

  First, I'd like to offer my sympathy to the family of the young girl that was killed. With three kids of my own, I can only imagine how awful I would feel to have this happen to one of them.

  Second, I have to ask a question: What happened to the "closed campus" concept that was used when I went to high school? Students arrived starting at 7:05 for 8:00am classes, ID's were checked on pulling into the parking lot, we ate lunch in the cafeteria while campus cops patrolled the parking lots and kept the gates closed, and the gates were opened at 3:55 for classes dismissing at 4pm, or when someone presented a pass to leave campus.

  I know, it sounds like a prison, but maybe it's worth revisiting that type of setup.

• September 28, 2006

  1:07 PM

  michael p writes:

  "I know, it sounds like a prison, but maybe it's worth revisiting that type of setup."

  You're right it sounds like a prison. If that is what life in Colorado has become then I don't ever want to visit, never mind think of living there.
  

• September 28, 2006

  1:09 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  So 11:50, the only blame, according to you, is squarely on the police? IF they shot the poor girl, as you are accusing, did they do it in cold blood? Or was it probably an accident? So from what your saying, the gunman should get no blame? There is an easy way to tell who shot her, it's called ballistics...

• September 28, 2006

  1:10 PM

  Kat writes:

  to the anonymous poster who posted:
  -------------------------------------------------
  "Kat

  Get over yourself. I have seen police lie through there (s/b their :) teeth after committing crimes. I have seen that on more than one ocassion with my own eyes. I find the police version shady and inconsistent and I would not be surprised one bit if SWAT accidentally shot the girl and are lying about it. We as taxpayers have every right to question the police as they are employed by us. ..."
  -------------------------------------
  And there you go judging again. I've had my own encounters with the police - I have been and always and will be a 'wild-child' and anti-authority or organized 'anything' mentality is my middle name. I've been treated fairly and at other times not. Altho I've learned from my experiences that each situation is it own entity and not to judge from a knee jerk reaction - but from a 'until you walk in their shoes....'. and apply common sense then you can you judge.

  I'm not saying the police actions shouldn't be questioned - for at minimum to improve upon how it could be handled better in the future. And by my observations to date I believe that the individuals in this situation, did what they thought was the best that they could do at the time. No malice, no power-play agendas, but with the best intentions for all. To condemn and pass judgment at this juncture is just plain stupid.

  With your thought process in mind, are you going to condemn the released hostages and the community at whole for not reacting in an appropriate nor heroic manner (god I hope not.) Do you not get it? We're all human, not perfect and have different primal reactions in crisis - it's the intentions that should be considered.

  We don't know the immediate details of what happened . So until that part of the tragic event occurs - and it will - again, I say - you do not have the right to judge, condemn nor imply that what was done was wrong.

  When I came to this forum TODAY, I thought it was about supporting the good decent people of Bailey CO and Emily Keyes family and friends, but I was assaulted with politcally, self-centered and pre-judged motivated post.

  So in your words "get over yourself" and take a second to provide compassionate support the for individuals in involved. Because for that is what is missing in our society. It's easy to point fingers. But, to evolve from that is harder, oh, and as it apparent as it is on this forum, too much harder.

  Oh, and yes, you have infuriated me. Thank you - it's easy to get angry.

• September 28, 2006

  1:13 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  September 28, 2006 12:54 PM

  The police are not believable in their story on this one. They are suspect in this case in my view. If the police shot the girl and are lying then I certainly blame the police. Through proper and non-corrupt investigation we can determine who most likely shot the girl. This is not one man. We are a society. We interact with each other daily.

  There are root causes of violence. Movies like Scareface and violent video games cause violent behavior. You have not shot anyone but if you are addicted to violent video games and movies I would like to have the choice not to associate with you. Since we are on the Internet I have that choice. The non-violent school kids have to put up with the most disgusting forms of entertainment plus get teased all day at school by folks that watch violent video games and violent movies. Then the police storm a place and sometimes kill innocent people. That is reality.

  I have noticed people that watch a lot of tv or play violent video games do not have a firm grasp on reality. If people like me were in charge of security the loser would not have done anything at a public school as I believe in home schooling and not public prisons and indoctrination camps that are our public schools.

  Violent images cause violent behavior. I chose not to associate myself with violent people or video game addicts. I do not expect the police to save me from danger and in fact the police raise the danger level whenever they get involved.

• September 28, 2006

  1:15 PM

  David (R) writes:

  Michael P -

  So what you're saying is that instead of taking appropriate precautions to keep these kind of lunatics out of the school, it's better to do nothing?

  When I attended high school, and it was a closed campus, I never felt like I was imprisoned - rather, I understood that if one wasn't a teacher or student, they didn't belong there.

  What reasonable action would you propose that would make it "safe" for your visit?

• September 28, 2006

  1:15 PM

  michael p writes:

  "So 11:50, the only blame, according to you, is squarely on the police? IF they shot the poor girl, as you are accusing, did they do it in cold blood? Or was it probably an accident? So from what your saying, the gunman should get no blame? There is an easy way to tell who shot her, it's called ballistics..."

  don't try to understand what people like 11:50 are thinking. In their world no one makes decisions. Decisions are forced upon them by society. Therefore no criminal is really ever wrong, they were wronged by society.

  And no matter what, the police are to blame. I grew up in a pretty tough place, never had a problem with a cop. I guess in Colorado the cops just go around shooting random people. If this is the case I apologize for my earlier uninformed opinion

• September 28, 2006

  1:17 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  I'm sorry, but this has to be political.

  It would be a shame for anyone to forget that our goverment had 30 years of opportunities to keep this happening and it forced good men and women to make hard choices in a matter of minutes (seconds of you were on the SWAT team).

  It would be insane not to analyze that and change the "system" so this doesn't happen to any other kids with a lifetime full of potential/life ahead of them.

  We have a government built on enforcing menial laws against the law abiding/tax paying population while they practice catch and release with monsters.

  If this doesn't send the message that government needs to get back to the business of protecting and serving the people, instead of regulating them, I don't know what would!

• September 28, 2006

  1:22 PM

  michael p writes:

  "Michael P -

  So what you're saying is that instead of taking appropriate precautions to keep these kind of lunatics out of the school, it's better to do nothing?

  When I attended high school, and it was a closed campus, I never felt like I was imprisoned - rather, I understood that if one wasn't a teacher or student, they didn't belong there.

  What reasonable action would you propose that would make it "safe" for your visit?"

  I'm not saying to do nothing. I'm saying it's sad that society even has to consider these things. If that is what is needed then I guess it needs to be done. It's just rather sad, that's all.

  The problem is that if this didn't happen in this school, he would have picked another one with less security, or a mall, or a movie theatre. Sadly there's always another opportunity for this type of person.

• September 28, 2006

  1:28 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  Maybe we should have tougher penalties like a lot of posters are saying, everyone keeps mentioning that this clown was in trouble for 30 years. Unfortunately a lot of these same posters were talking about how the sheriff in AZ should be in trouble for "cruel treatment of prisoners."

  
  by the way, anyone seen Jay? I expected him to be on here accusing those rotten, currupt police...

• September 28, 2006

  1:30 PM

  JW writes:

  "The problem is that if this didn't happen in this school, he would have picked another one with less security, or a mall, or a movie theatre. Sadly there's always another opportunity for this type of person."

  This is why we need to stop blaming the people who try to stop this, and blame the jerk who did it.

  Second guessing the cops on this is just crazy. The decided to go in for a reason, and someone died. If they hadnt gone in, its possible BOTH the girls would have died. We will never know. But I think 9/11 should have taught us better. You can listen to the terrorists, and hope they fly you to Argentina, but they might fly you into a building. You can try to wait a hostage taker out and deal with him, and it might get all the hostages out, or it might just get them all killed.

  That said, I would rather go down trying to avoid death in a situation like this, than die hoping I won't be killed. Quit blaming the cops. It didnt matter what decision they made, there was risk to all of them, and you just dont know if this is the best possible conclusion or not.

• September 28, 2006

  1:31 PM

  David (R) writes:

  Michael P -

  I agree that it's sad. I also think that it would be very short-sighted of us to simply accept that there are lunatics in the world, and do nothing to at least try to protect our children.

  Even though I am a card-carrying, lifetime member of the NRA, I don't advocate carrying guns in the schools (I don't have the available concealed carry permit myself) - but it seems to me that knowing who comes and goes in our schools is prudent and reasonable.

• September 28, 2006

  1:35 PM

  JW writes:

  "Maybe we should have tougher penalties like a lot of posters are saying"

  Unfortunately, tougher penalties dont have much affect on overall crime rates. I say unfortunate because making penalties tougher would be easier than fixing the issue that DOES have a huge impact on crime rates...poverty.

• September 28, 2006

  1:40 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  
  Kat

  I have never been a wild child nor do I have any criminal record. A kid I grew up with used to sell pot as a teen and now he is a Denver police officer. I have seen plenty of police corruption some of it violent and some of it not. I never claimed I do not judge people. My personal security dictates that I make judgments quickly and accurately. The way the police are telling their story is not believable to me. I do not have to commit a crime to be against criminals. I do not have to be a police officer to be against overzealous and brutal police officers. I don't have to be a police officer to be against police officers committing crimes.

  You use the same standard lines that show a lack of critical thinking possibly from drug use. Don't judge anyone, only stupid people judge and so on are trite responses to a very serious problem of violence and teasing in general in the USA. The very words you use are judgmental pejoratives used to tease people.

  You have no idea if the police acted appropriately. You only have what they tell the media. The police statements seem fishy to me and that is why I am posting that I do not believe their story and they are suspect in my book. You believe them so good for you. Thank God for the USA where one can be as ignorant or learned as he/she wants. Send a dozen roses to the police that stormed the school if you want. I do not believe their story. You are infuriated because of the lifestyle you live. I have a feeling you have done drugs or are currently doing drugs. Have you ever used any illicit drug? I never have. No DUI even.

• September 28, 2006

  1:41 PM

  Michael P writes:

  JW - agreed completely

  David - don't get the NRA thing (never did) but i agree with you that we need to protect our children. I would think that simply having a security guard (or more than 1 if need be) in every school and having the doors locked during school hours should be more than enough. Most importantly criminals need to be dealt with. If we could eliminate repeat offenders in your country, and mine as well, we wouldn't have much of a crime problem at all. If this was actually done maye people wouldn't feel the need to arm themselves.

• September 28, 2006

  1:44 PM

  Michael P writes:

  "Making penalties tougher would be easier than fixing the issue that DOES have a huge impact on crime rates...poverty."

  why can't we do both? Why does it always have to be one or the other. Poor criminals need jail, poor people need help. Why can't we ever just do that?

• September 28, 2006

  1:46 PM

  Hogar De Vuelta writes:

  Now which party is always trying to let criminals go? Or which party is always trying to decriminalize everything?

• September 28, 2006

  1:51 PM

  history buff writes:

  My heart goes out to the victims of this tragedy.

  I grew up in a small town and I know that people living away from the city feel safe in their environments. It is a shame there are bad people in the world, but blaming the school, the police, politicians, guns, women or any other scapegoat is not going to solve this kind of random act of violence, nor will it make it better for the people who are affected by it.

• September 28, 2006

  1:51 PM

  michael p writes:

  "Now which party is always trying to let criminals go? Or which party is always trying to decriminalize everything?"

  who cares? this isn't about democrats vs republicans. No wonder nothing ever gets solved.

• September 28, 2006

  1:54 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  michael

  If the police shot the girl by accident then yes they are to blame for shooting the girl. If they did not then they are not to blame. That is simple logic.

  In my world security is tight and cash flow positive. In my world I would like to see affordable private schools and better yet home schooling. I would like to see men and women together building families and being positive role models for the youth instead of cursing each other out, competing for corporate jobs and creating violent movies, music, tv and art. In my world violence would be rated X and bullying would not be allowed. I would also crack down on the obnoxious teasing that is rampant in public schools which are nothing but NWO indoctrination prison camps. In my world the police would be held to the highest standards. Police officers involved in criminal activity or would be fully prosecuted. In my world we would end our reliance on oil and use alternative non-combustible energy.

• September 28, 2006

  2:05 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  " It is a shame there are bad people in the world, but blaming the school, the police, politicians, guns, women or any other scapegoat is not going to solve this kind of random act of violence, nor will it make it better for the people who are affected by it."

  Yes, it gets people talking about the root causes of violence which is at a ten year high in the USA. This at a time of false flag wars and massive polical corruption. Plus, men and women don't seem to be getting along ver well these days.

  What caused the loser to freak out? Did he really shoot the girl? Two questions I will answer for myself in the coming weeks.

• September 28, 2006

  2:11 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  anonymous at 1:54 - I couldn't agree more.

  Here is a bit of info that a friend sent me a few months ago, outlining some interesting things about societies. I thought I'd post it for general consideration as it relates to this thread, and several posts on it that point to possible reasons for this senseless tragedy:

  *** "About the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution,
  in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of
  Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some
  2,000 years prior. "A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply
  cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."

  "The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years.

  During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the
  following sequence

  1. From bondage to spiritual faith;
  2. From spiritual faith to great courage;
  3. From courage to liberty;
  4. From liberty to abundance;
  5. From abundance to complacency;
  6. From complacency to apathy;
  7. From apathy to dependence;
  8. From dependence back into bondage " ***

• September 28, 2006

  2:16 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  You can't defend yourself against evil people.We can't lock our kids up and never let them out.We have to go out among people everyday.Evil walks among them.The only thing we can do is love our children,try to raise them in a moral enviroment,protect them as much as we can and hope for the best.

  We can't make our schools armed camps.If someone who is hell bent on killing people has that mindset there is nothing that is going to stop him except a bullet.

  Evil people are everywhere.The people who are not evil can only hope they never have to look into the face of evil.

  If there is a heaven and hell,at least we know where Emily is and where her murderer is.

• September 28, 2006

  2:19 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  Posted by on September 28, 2006 02:11 PM

  Thank you so much for that post. I printed it out. I was really hoping for that type of post on this blog.

  My prayers go out to the innocent who were hurt in this violant tragedy.

• September 28, 2006

  2:19 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  2:16 you are a quitter!

  Of course we can defend ourselves from evil!

• September 28, 2006

  2:22 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  "In my world security is tight and cash flow positive. In my world I would like to see affordable private schools and better yet home schooling. I would like to see men and women together building families and being positive role models for the youth instead of cursing each other out, competing for corporate jobs and creating violent movies, music, tv and art. In my world violence would be rated X and bullying would not be allowed. I would also crack down on the obnoxious teasing that is rampant in public schools which are nothing but NWO indoctrination prison camps. In my world the police would be held to the highest standards. Police officers involved in criminal activity or would be fully prosecuted. In my world we would end our reliance on oil and use alternative non-combustible energy."

  that's nice. your end ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

  In my world people wouldn't blame cops for making the decision of trying to save the lives of kids no matter how they turn out. They made the best decision they could.

• September 28, 2006

  2:23 PM

  michael p writes:

  "In my world security is tight and cash flow positive. In my world I would like to see affordable private schools and better yet home schooling. I would like to see men and women together building families and being positive role models for the youth instead of cursing each other out, competing for corporate jobs and creating violent movies, music, tv and art. In my world violence would be rated X and bullying would not be allowed. I would also crack down on the obnoxious teasing that is rampant in public schools which are nothing but NWO indoctrination prison camps. In my world the police would be held to the highest standards. Police officers involved in criminal activity or would be fully prosecuted. In my world we would end our reliance on oil and use alternative non-combustible energy."

  that's nice. your world ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

  In my world people wouldn't blame cops for making the decision of trying to save the lives of kids no matter how they turn out. They made the best decision they could.

• September 28, 2006

  2:24 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  We can protect people from evil. In fact that is our duty here on earth! Instead of protecting people from evil the USA promotes it and that is a huge problem. Just a week or so ago a woman killed a woman and cut out her baby from her womb. Our society is getting sicker and we should try and fix it. I refuse to give up.

• September 28, 2006

  2:25 PM

  harry palm writes:

  HOw can you people have so much to say about EVERYTHING?? Do you people really love the sound of your own voice this much? What happened yesterday was a tragedy and a sad one at that. It wasnt poverty that drove this derlick to it, it was societal conditions cause of the republicans, it sounds like he was a perve, probably high on meth and wanted to sexually abuse some young girls and go out with a bang. My gut says this guy had every intention of raping, killing and taking himself down with him. How the hell you yokels tie that to a republican vs democrat thing is beyond me.

  Its just another reminder why all of you better convert to Shai law before its to late the talibani come get you!!!

• September 28, 2006

  2:27 PM

  Hogar De Vuelta writes:

  michael p on September 28, 2006 01:51 PM

  Based on your response, I would guess that you are under 30. I grew up in a time when things like this did not happen, because a man like this with the record he has would not have been walking around free to commit acts like this.

  It is the bleeding heart liberal mentality that prevents the justice system from doing its job, which is to remove criminal from society. Perfection cannot be achieved, but when you have career criminals, you simply cannot have them walking around waiting for them to snap.

• September 28, 2006

  2:32 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  Positive Options To Curb Violence In My Opinion:

  Less public schools

  More affordable private schools

  Classes over the Internet

  More home-schooling

  Gratuitous violence should be rated X

  A la cart video programming

  Less glorification on professional sports

  Prison overhaul

  Immigration control

  Jobs instead of welfare

  A mending of relations between men and women by encouraging traditional family relationships

  Prison overhaul

• September 28, 2006

  2:40 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  "In my world people wouldn't blame cops for making the decision of trying to save the lives of kids no matter how they turn out. They made the best decision they could."

  I don't believe the cops on this one and that is a fact. I do not give them a blank check to kill whoever they want like you do. Obviously if they did not kill the the girl themselves they did the best they could. If they did kill the girl they committed a crime by denying it and should be prosecuted. You don't have any positive solutions besides having the police shoot everyone in site.

• September 28, 2006

  2:50 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  CRAZY ASS WHITE PEOPLE I TELL YOU ALWAYS SHOOTING UP SCHOOLS OR DOING SOME OTHER CRAZY THING! THEN PEOPLE SAY THE MEXICANS ARE THE ONES ALWAYS DOING BAD THINGS. COME ON NOW.

• September 28, 2006

  2:52 PM

  Hogar De Vuelta writes:

  232

  Those are all good things to curb the growth of violence, but you also need a vigorous judicial system that has more sympathy of law abiding citizens and less for violent criminals. Every year 5,000 people are murdered by repeat offenders. How many opportunities should a person get to murder another person?

• September 28, 2006

  2:57 PM

  David (R) writes:

  2:50 -

  The word "always" is almost never appropriate when referring to the actions of certain groups of people.

  As I point out to people when this happens, there were (roughly) 70 million Mexicans, 60 million black Americans, 30 million Asians, 120 million Caucasions, and 20 million from other races THAT DIDN'T harm anyone yesterday.

  But yesterday, we did have several from each race that did stupid, depraved, vile, and/or tragic things. Unfortunately, that's life, and it's been that way for thousands of years.

  Is there a way to fix it? I don't know, and neither do you. But I have my doubts.

• September 28, 2006

  2:58 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  Hogar

  I agree that prisons should be for violent people and corporate fraudsters. There is no room because of all the drug addicts in prison. The USA is the leading purchaser of illicit drugs in the world with crystal meth destroying a large chunk of the Anglo population. There is no one answer. Should non-violent drug wastoids be in prison at $35,000 a year to hold? I don't think so.

• September 28, 2006

  3:04 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  "It is the bleeding heart liberal mentality that prevents the justice system from doing its job, which is to remove criminal from society. Perfection cannot be achieved, but when you have career criminals, you simply cannot have them walking around waiting for them to snap."

  Hmm. Thats weird. Below is the guys history of legal entanglement;

  "State records indicate Morrison was arrested in July in Lakewood on a charge of obstructing police in another suburb. He also was held for larceny and marijuana possession in 1973. "

  What part of this screams "Lock him up and throw away the key"? There isnt even a conviction here, just two arrests.

  Most serial killers have NO illegal history.

  Your need to blame "bleeding heart liberals" for everthing is disgusting Hogar. More so since you decided you just had to bring it here.

  Really, I think this is just a tragic scenario in which nice people got hurt, the same as happens all over the world daily. All we can do is live our lives and try our best to avoid this. Blaming people other than the jerk that decided to kill a little girl is counter productive.

• September 28, 2006

  3:04 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  anonymous at 2:58 -

  where do they get the money to buy their crap?

  they steal stuff from you and me, that's where.

  and the actual cost is far greater than 35k per year. they should be in a drug rehab program the first time, a drug rehab program in a mid-security prison the second time, and then a room with all the dope they want the 'last' time, and they don't come out walking.

  hard-hearted? yep. but if they won't help themselves, they have no use being here.

• September 28, 2006

  3:06 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  Bullets are $.10 each.

• September 28, 2006

  3:10 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  The whole history on the scum bag will come out and you will all see it was more than just minor (weed) offenses in 1979.

  Notice the recent picture of the guy wearing the flaming orange jumpsuit?

  In the end, we have to hold those who have weakened our system and turned it into a revolving door. If that's going to be "bleading heart libs" then so be it.

  We have to understand that certain ideologies have consequences. When you remove morality from the equation, teach people they are not responsible for anything they do in their adult lives, and then tell criminals they are a product of the environment... Well, there is something wrong with that.

  Notice how some people, even on this very board, are more critical of the police than this bastard? Yeah, there's something wrong with that too!

• September 28, 2006

  3:12 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  anonymous at 3:06

  well, about 33 cents for my .45ACP .. you want to finish the job the first time.

  and I've seen four people on meth with their black teeth, sunken eyes, skin hanging on their bones, checking the curtains at every car that goes by, and unequaled paranoia. I don't think too many make it back from using it more than 2 or 3 times.

• September 28, 2006

  3:21 PM

  COP writes:

  - A deputy has died after being shot during a traffic stop in Lakeland, Florida, AP reports quoting the Polk County sheriff.
  CNN

  Now, do any one of you Police haters want to keep talking about how bad police are? That's three killed in one week. (Houston, Aurora CO, and now FL)!! None of you have jobs where you are legitmately unsure if you will come home after work. If you want to criticize the police, go trying being one first. Then tell me how power hungry they are!

• September 28, 2006

  3:24 PM

  David (R) writes:

  COP -

  I'll stand on your side of the issue.

  I've known five or six cops in the past 30-some years, and all were upstanding, honest, and great neighbors. Are all of them likely to be perfect? I doubt it, but I'll take my chances with them, rather than without them.

• September 28, 2006

  3:26 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  I'm with COP.

  You have to understand that in the effort to normalize criminal behavior the police are often villified.

  Both can't be right, so the cops have to be wrong.

  Ironic that the cops are protecting the wannabe social engineers!

• September 28, 2006

  3:55 PM

  COP writes:

  2:40 p.m.

  You state that you don't believe the police on this one? Why is that? What do you base your beliefs on? The news reports? Or is it (more likely) that you have some axe to grind with law enforcement. There's nothing wrong with having some bias. We all do. But when it clouds your judgement, as it clearly does here, your rambling becomes irrelevant and unhelpful. You have no idea what happened (none of us do - yet!), but you are willing to criticize someone with whom you have no common point of reference.

  I challenge you to respond and describe, with specificity, your reasons for not believing the police. I'm sure I could decontsruct your response with little effort and expose your bias.

• September 28, 2006

  4:07 PM

  Elwood writes:

  Cop,
  I'm with you on this. With all the News outlets trying to get their version out first and taking the word of teenagers (who admit to lying about being there) and splashing it all over the papers, TV's , Web pages, etc., who can you believe? Wait until a few days have gone by and the whole story has been put together accurately before making any opinion. Personally I believe the Police on this one.

• September 28, 2006

  4:24 PM

  LB writes:

  Such a sad, incomprehensible tragedy!

  With a 16 year old daughter of my own, the devastation such a selfish, evil person can have on others is incomprehensible.

  My heart and tears go out to the Keyes family - Emily's broken-hearted parents and her twin brother, Casey. And to the police officers involved, as well, who tried so hard to do the right things. But when a sinister, evil, crazy person has a gun, only hindsight will allow you the luxury of knowing what not to do.

• September 28, 2006

  6:06 PM

  kat writes:

  Smocc -

  Just a quick note to let you know that I saw your post. I think we were deleted because of the swear words in the posts. (Oh, the trival 'politically correct' shame of a cuss word whilst your were expressing your pain.)

  Anyway, just wanted to reiterate that you have every right to express your rage and I'm so terribly sorry you lost your friend - Emily. She was someone extremely special.

  This experience is something you should never have had to go through - IT IS NOT FAIR and we all must take note -- IT IS NOT FAIR.

  Please take of care of yourself and words fail me beyond this thought. I just hope you know that you are precious (I know, I know a girly word, please forgive me but it's how I felt after I saw your post.) AND you're important too. It may not be apparent today, but it will be in the future.

  And you're absolutely right - this subspecies - duane morrison was a sick f**k. No other explanation in this universe would ever say otherwise.

• September 28, 2006

  6:12 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  Please let the selfishness leave for a moment and open your hearts and minds to the situation. Teenagers yesterday feared for there lives so lets not argue. Put yourself just for once in the students position. Won't 3 hours be enough abuse I would have wanted help a hell of alot faster than that. The swat team and police department did the best they could and help them out when you see something strange instead of closing your eyes or thinking it will never happen to me. Have any of you ever expienced being at gun point or sexually assalted if not do us all a favor and keep your comments to yourself because you have no idea. You just want someone to try and help! A criminals mind is a scary thing and the anticipation is even worse. Please take a piece of your heart and soul and pray for all involved and especially the family of this beautiful girl.

• September 28, 2006

  6:12 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  Please let the selfishness leave for a moment and open your hearts and minds to the situation. Teenagers yesterday feared for there lives so lets not argue. Put yourself just for once in the students position. Won't 3 hours be enough abuse I would have wanted help a hell of alot faster than that. The swat team and police department did the best they could and help them out when you see something strange instead of closing your eyes or thinking it will never happen to me. Have any of you ever expienced being at gun point or sexually assalted if not do us all a favor and keep your comments to yourself because you have no idea. You just want someone to try and help! A criminals mind is a scary thing and the anticipation is even worse. Please take a piece of your heart and soul and pray for all involved and especially the family of this beautiful girl.

• September 28, 2006

  6:13 PM

  Bob writes:

  Please let the selfishness leave for a moment and open your hearts and minds to the situation. Teenagers yesterday feared for there lives so lets not argue. Put yourself just for once in the students position. Won't 3 hours be enough abuse I would have wanted help a hell of alot faster than that. The swat team and police department did the best they could and help them out when you see something strange instead of closing your eyes or thinking it will never happen to me. Have any of you ever expienced being at gun point or sexually assalted if not do us all a favor and keep your comments to yourself because you have no idea. You just want someone to try and help! A criminals mind is a scary thing and the anticipation is even worse. Please take a piece of your heart and soul and pray for all involved and especially the family of this beautiful girl.

• September 28, 2006

  6:51 PM

  David (R) writes:

  Bob -

  Amen.

• September 28, 2006

  7:13 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  "and the actual cost is far greater than 35k per year. they should be in a drug rehab program the first time, a drug rehab program in a mid-security prison the second time, and then a room with all the dope they want the 'last' time, and they don't come out walking."

  I agree except putting them in jail does nothing but cost the tax payers too much money. I don't do drugs and I have zero tolerance for drug users. I agree they should be given a pile of drugs and allowed to kill themselves. I would like to see prison for violent criminals and not dopeheads. Crowding the jails with dopeheads makes no sense.

• September 28, 2006

  7:16 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  "and I've seen four people on meth with their black teeth, sunken eyes, skin hanging on their bones, checking the curtains at every car that goes by, and unequaled paranoia. I don't think too many make it back from using it more than 2 or 3 time"

  Meth users are the scum of the scum of the scum. Meth is a huge problem in Colorado and the white community.

• September 28, 2006

  7:41 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  Cop

  
  I have no ax to grind as I have no criminal record nor do I have a criminal mindset. I am anti-violence, anti-crime and anti-drugs. I have seen cops lie thru their teeth to protect themselves. I have witnessed cops lying and trying to frame innocents. I have step-family that are cops and would not allow them in my home as I feel they are dishonest when it comes to saving their own behind at the expense of innocents. I won't go into details but I do have a security background and I have worked with a few SWAT teams which for security reasons I shall not name. I have seen some SWAT teams with such bloodlust that it's frightening.

  The police's official police story does not add up based on the reports I have read, the manner in which the school was stormed and the alleged rapes that never occurred. As each hour passes I believe the police version less and less. I believe the girl bolted and was shot by police as she ran towards them in the smoke caused by the explosives police used to storm the room. The police version is not consistent so far and they are suspect in my book.

  I do not rely on the police for my safety and have in fact witnessed the police make matters much worse by inappropriate use of force. I do not hate all cops. In this case I do not believe their version of the story all that much. There are some good cops out there but in Colorado they are not the most honest group of people I have encountered. PA state patrol are total pros and the real deal for the most part in my book.Cops get miffed at me like they do IAD. Oh well, the truth shall set the innocent free.

• September 28, 2006

  8:22 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  Cop

  Citizens Killed By Colorado Police

  Officers Involved: Ranjan Ford Jr.

  Location: Denver

  An unarmed man killed by officers responding to a report of someone assaulting his wife was not the suspect they were seeking.

  Frank Lobato, 63, was killed in cold blood by Officer Rich Ford Jr., as he lay in bed watching television. Relatives said Lobato was disabled and needed crutches to move around. Lobato's nephew Vincent Martinez was the man police were seeking. Police Chief Gerry Whitman said that Officer Ford mistook a soda can Lobato was carrying for a weapon and shot him.

  Cathy Sandoval called police to report she had been held against her will and assaulted for 17 hours, police said. She said she told police Martinez was unarmed and that his uncle was in an upstairs bedroom of the home. Police borrowed a ladder to enter the home through a window after Martinez did not respond to knocks on the door. When they opened a closed bedroom door upstairs, they saw a man holding a silver object. Officer Ford shot Lobato once in the chest.

  Ford is on paid leave while detectives and prosecutors investigate the shooting, Whitman said. Ford joined the department in 2001 after working in Jasper, Texas.

  =========

  March 24, 2005 DENVER -- A Colorado family is suing the Aurora Police Department for killing their unarmed son.

  Jamaal Allan Bonner, 20, was killed in December 2003 during an undercover prostitution sting. Bonner followed an undercover female officer into a hotel room on East Colfax during the operation.

  Aurora police said at the time, Bonner sold the undercover officer cocaine in exchange for sex. Bonner's family attorney said the officer coaxed Bonner into the Top Star Motel. Soon after, the SWAT team stormed the room, and after hitting Bonner with a Taser gun, officers shot him in the back three times, even though he was unarmed, the Bonner family attorney said.

  The family's lawsuit, filed Wednesday, claims that the officer who shot him and the former police chief violated Bonner's constitutional rights.

  "Despite the fact that Mr. Bonner had been contained by the use of the stun gun and despite the fact that the officers were in physical contact with him, while his head was on or near the floor, and despite the fact that he was completely unarmed, Officer William Woods shot Mr. Bonner three times in the back, killing him," the lawsuit contends.

  "Given the witnesses of three officers that our son was Tased and shot three times in the back while unarmed and in a defenseless posture, as his family we are appalled that no action has been taken against the officer that murdered our son," said Bonner's mother, Brenda Bonner, in a released statement.

  Police said Bonner displayed aggressive behavior toward the unarmed decoy officer. Under the police plan, female officers dressed as prostitutes would take men to a motel room monitored with video and audio surveillance and then uniformed officers would arrest them. Once in the motel room, the undercover officer signaled for uniformed officers to arrest the suspect, and then took cover.

  Police had said officers ordered Bonner to place his hands in the air, but said he kept them in the area of his waistband and pockets and then started an aggressive move toward the unarmed female undercover officer who was nearby. At that point Bonner was shot with a Taser gun by one officer and then a second officer shot Bonner in the upper body with his service revolver, police said.

  Bonner was not armed but police said he has an extensive criminal history for offenses involving assault on a police officer, assaults, carrying a concealed weapon, additional weapons charges, aggravated robbery, narcotics, resisting arrest and theft. Additionally, there were two outstanding warrants for Bonner, one from the U.S. Marshals Office and the other from Denver.

  Michael Riggins, 32, the nephew of the motel manager, had said he saw a black man in his 20s walk across the parking lot with an undercover female officer.

  "The only thing I noticed about him was he had his hand in his pocket the whole time, even when he went up the stairs," he said. "It was strange." Riggins said another cousin was in the parking lot at the time and said he heard officers ordering someone to take his hands out of his pockets and get down just before the shots.

  =========

  07/15/04 -- The Denver police officer who shot an unarmed man Sunday allegedly threatened to kill his ex-wife's boyfriend and take his daughter back last year, according to a court document.

  Those allegations against Ranjan "Rich" Ford Jr., who has a spotless police record, emerged during a bitter custody fight with his estranged wife over their only child.

  In an Adams County court motion opposing the return of his daughter, Michelle Ford claimed her husband "has threatened, in the presence of the minor child, to 'keep' her and not return her to her home with her mother," wrote the wife's attorney, Patricia McEahern.

  He also harassed his wife, who had petitioned for divorce, once calling her 10 times in 15 minutes and causing her "to fear for hers and the child's safety," McEahern wrote.

  "He has additionally threatened to kill (Michelle's) boyfriend if Tiffani has contact with him."

  That description of Ford stands in contrast to other accounts of a young police officer who had an unblemished career before Sunday's shooting, highlighted by his level-headed behavior in tense situations and volunteer work on behalf of fellow officers, abused children and adults with fatal illnesses.

  During the last year, Ford has been engaged in a bitter court fight with the woman he married twice - and divorced twice.

  According to court records, Ranjan Ford and Michelle Lance were first married in Jasper County, Texas, in July 1993, when she was 22 and he was five days shy of his 22nd birthday.

  They were divorced seven years later, then remarried two months after their divorce.

  In Colorado, they separated again in July 2003, and Michelle returned to Texas with their daughter. An exchange of accusations ensued in court papers.

  =======================

  Officers Involved: James Turner

  Killed: Paul Childs (15)

  Location: Denver, Colorado

  07.15.2003 Chief Gerry Whitman thinks 20 days suspension without pay is fair for killing Paul Childs a disabled 15 year old. Paul Child's sister called police to the resident saying the 15 year old was threatening his mother with a knife. Police records show that officers were called out to the resident atleast 50 times in hte last 3 years. As other officers stood around with "tasers" drawn, officer James Turney shot the child four times killing him.

  =================

  September 12, 1998. Aurora: A police officer shot and killed a man while responding to a domestic disturbance call. The man died in the emergency room from multiple gunshot wounds.

  ================

  July 13, 1998. Pueblo: Mr. Rodroguez was shot to death by Officer Thomas Rummel in the early morning hours after a brief car chase. Officer Rummel claimed he saw a car being driven erratically around 12:30 a.m. and suspected that the driver was drunk. After a brief chase, the victim's car crashed into a parked car in the 400 block of West Northern Avenue. He jumped from his car and a foot chase ensued. Police claim Frank pulled a 9mm handgun and started to fire. Officer Rummel allegedly returned fire and hit him in the hip.

  The cops said more than a dozen rounds were exchanged at a distance of only two or three feet. At this point, the victim supposedly jumped into the driver's seat of the cop's car and the cop fired several shots through the closed window, killing him. Officer Rummel, who was wounded but survived, was placed on paid administrative leave (paid vacation) during the investigationö into the shooting. Frank had spent seven years in prison for burglary and was allegedly wanted in connection with a recent armed robbery of a store. The newspaper reported that this was the second fatal shooting by the Pueblo police in 1998.

  =======

  May 7, 1998. El Paso County Jail, CO: Michael Lewis was a suspect in a child molestation case. He died after being strapped face-down to a one-foot wide board called The Restrainer designed to immobilize prisoners.

  =======

  May 3, 1998. Denver: Mr. Bowyer was shot in the chest and killed by Officer Shawn Saunders, who was allegedly responding to a fight between Bowyer and another man around 4 a.m. at the Pleasures Entertainment bookstore at 127 S. Broadway. Cops claim Bowyer ôcame atö Officer Saunders with an object in his hand as Saunders attempted to mace the two men. Saunders dropped the Mace, pulled his gun and shot and killed Bowyer. Police claim that the object Bowyer was holding was a canister of Mace. The DA declined to press charges against Officer Saunders.

  =======

  May 2, 1998. Denver: Christopher was shot and killed by SWAT team members Tom Lahey and Ken Padgett around 2 a.m. in the 200 block of South Lincoln Street. Cops claim Christopher fled a traffic stop, threatened cops with a gun, refused repeated commands to drop the gun and fought with police dogs before the cops opened fire. The DA declined to press charges against the cops who killed Christopher Trewet.

  ==========

  May 1, 1998. Aurora: Ms. Hull died on May 2, 1998, from injuries she suffered the day before in a car crash with alleged gang members who were being chased by police.

  Authorities charged Queena Quionez, the driver of the car they were chasing, with vehicular homicide. A police spokesperson said, We have a very restrictive pursuit policy in Aurora and this pursuit did fall within our guidelines. Ms. Hull left a husband, John, age 53.

  ==========

  April 15, 1998. Greenville County: Mr. Bowers was suspected of shooting his wife seven times and killing her.

  Officers flushed him out of the woods. Mr. Bowers allegedly opened fire. Police opened fire, and Mr. Bowers died of numerous gunshot wounds to the head and body.

  =========

  March 29, 1998. Sheridan: Mr. LaCrue was killed in a car crash resulting from a police pursuit of a car whose occupants were suspected of stealing a $7.99 12-pack of beer from a convenience store. Mr. LaCrues wife and mother-in-law were injured in the crash. He is also survived by at least one grandchild. Police claimed the chase was within pursuit protocol.

  ========

  March 6, 1998. Adams County: Andrew Alvarez was shot and killed by Edgewater Police Officer Dave Muonz after Alvarez allegedly tried to hijack a car from a teenage girl at West 64th Avenue and Pecos Street. Edgewater and Mountain View police were chasing a car that had allegedly been stolen in Denver. The Adams County Sheriff's Department said, We don't know if they [the cops] rammed it [the allegedly stolen car] or if it ran out of gas. Cops claim that there was a dead body 20 yards behind the car of the teenage girl, who had pulled over to get out of the way of the police cars. Alvarez was a passenger in the supposedly stolen car, whose driver was arrested. Cops claim Alvarez ran to the teenage girl's car, began pounding on the windows, and tried to get in (they don't specify how). A cop yelled that Alvarez had a gun and Officer Mumoz shot him twice.

  Alvarez supposedly continued to move, so Officer Munoz shot him five more times, at which point Alvarez fell down behind the young womans car. No gun was found, only a metal spoon and a syringe. Within a week, the DA had cleared Officer Munoz of any wrongdoing, finding him to have acted reasonably in defense of himself and others and to be justified in his actions.

  =======

  February 7, 1998. west Denver: Mr. Rodrguez was shot once in the chest and killed by off-duty Officer Raymond Gallardo after he allegedly tried to run over the cop and others outside the Purple Turtle Lounge. Officer Gallardo and Officer Dan Rojas were moonlighting at the bar. The case was compared to the 1996 fatal police shooting of Jeff Truax, which a police spokesman said was justified and that Mr. RodreguezÆ case was even more clear-cut.

  =======

  January 21, 1998. Conejos County (Sanford): Mr. Kreps was shot to death in an alleged gun battle with sheriff's deputies responding to a domestic violence complaint. Mr. Kreps' father believes that Deputy Chris Monroe fired the shots that killed his son. He filed a petition in court demanding the arrest of Deputy Monroe, one of the three cops at the scene.

  =======

  January 8, 1998. El Paso County: Mr. Martenez was shot to death by state patrolman Brian Lyons during a traffic stop. Martenez was pulled over by Officer Lyons on El Paso County 19 for a traffic violation. He stopped but allegedly drove off. He stopped again after a seven-mile chase and pulled over into a field, where he was shot and killed by Officer Lyons. Officer Lyons claimed that Mr. Martenez threw rocks at him, picked up a large rock, and said, You're going to have to kill me because I'm going to bash your head in with this. Family members questioned this version of events, saying Tony was disabled and walked with a cane as the result of a car accident, so he was not in any condition to put up a fight and even if he did pick up a rock, Lyons could have defused the situation in a non-lethal way. The Colorado Bureau of Investigation cleared Lyons of any wrongdoing. The family filed a federal lawsuit against the Colorado State Patrol, Officer Lyons and other officers.

  ==========

  October 31, 1997. southwest Denver: Cops arrived at the parking lot in response to a call about a suspicious truck. Several witnesses to the beating charged brutality on the part of Officers Mike Rossi, Marco MartNnez and Gary Hise during the arrest of Robert Murphy. The official report claimed that Mr. Murphy resisted arrest and tried to swallow the contents of a pill bottle and the bottle itself when confronted by the three cops. Witnesses stated that Mr. Murphy resisted arrest at first but that after he had stopped resisting and was restrained, they saw one officer beat the victim with a leather strap and kick him in the head and body until he was unconscious. Authorities dismissed eyewitness reports because of supposed inconsistencies, while the autopsy claimed that the cause of death was a blocked airway and cocaine poisoning and that the bruises all over his head and body were merely superficial and did not contribute to his death. An FBI probe and a protest by the ACLU did not prevent the officers exoneration. Robert Murphy left behind a wife and brother, who both demanded that the three cops be charged with murder. His brother said, I don't think it's right to beat somebody to death and get away with it. The criminals are going unpunished because they have a badge.

  ==========

  September 29, 1997. Boulder County: Mr. Anstett was shot in the head and killed by police during a high-speed chase. The fatal shot came from a cops shotgun. Police claimed that Mr. Anstett had robbed a bank a few hours earlier and that they fired on him only after he fired at them while recklessly driving on the highway. Cops did not say how many shots they fired.

  =========

  September 13, 1997. Denver: Mr. Herrera was shot and killed by Denver Police Officer Darren Lindsay and Sgt. Brad Lenderick. The press report alleges that police were called to the house after Mr. Herrera, who was supposedly drunk, punched his girlfriend and that he refused to put down his gun despite repeated orders to do so. Officer Lindsay claimed that Mr. Herrera pointed the gun directly at him. The cops fired five shots. No charges were filed against either of them.

  ===========

  August 3, 1997. Boulder: Luis was killed by being hog-tied and pepper-sprayed at a rave by off-duty cops. Three bouncers took him out of the building (Olympic Bowl, 1740 30th St.) just before 1 a.m. after he allegedly fondled a female patron. They pushed him to the ground ôand restrained him while placing their full weight on top of his body. Sgt. Robert Sullenberger, Officer Scott Adams and Officer Dan Elin, who were working as security guards, pepper-sprayed Luis and hog-tied him. This plus the weight of six people on top of him caused him to be asphyxiated, killing him. The family filed a federal wrongful death suit against the city, the cops, the bouncers and others.

  ============

  July 11, 1997. Denver: Bobby was shot and killed by two Denver Police Officers James Dempsey and Aaron Lopez, who were called to 3384 Lawrence St. for a domestic disturbance. Bobby was in front of his house. The DA's office claims he was holding a large knife and looked agitated. Cops claim he rushed at the officers, so they shot and killed him, but family members who were present said he did not threaten the officers. The Denver DA declined to press charges against Officers Dempsey and Lopez.

  ========

  May 20, 1997. Denver: Cops were at Alexs mothers house at 329 Fox Street investigating an earlier report of a domestic disturbance when Alex allegedly showed up carrying a gun and began pounding on the back door. Officer John Sullivan supposedly ordered him to drop the gun, which cops claim he was pointing at his own head. Then, according to police, Alex pointed the gun at Officer Sullivan, at which point the cop fired, hitting Alex in the hand and the abdomen and knocking him down. Supposedly, Alex then fired the fatal shot into his own head, so authorities have ruled the death a suicide. Officer Sullivan was placed on paid administrative leave (paid vacation) pending an investigation.

  ============

  January 21, 1997. Colorado Springs: Mr. Younger was killed just the city limits in Colorado Springs by one of eight shots fired by Manitou Springs Police Officer John Hayward, who was supposedly returning fire. The cop stopped Mr. Younger on U.S. 24 because his tail lights weren't working and claims that the victim gave several names, at which point the cop decided to take him in. Mr. Younger allegedly agreed to go along. Officer Hayward searched him and put him in the back of his police car without handcuffs. Eric supposedly said he was sick and about to vomit and when the cop pulled over and opened the right rear door, the victim allegedly pulled a gun and fired once, jumped out of the car and fired three more times. The cop fired five times, re-loaded and fired three more times, killing his victim. Officer Hawyard was not injured, even though he was supposedly fired upon repeatedly at close range.

  ===========

  January 12, 1997. Denver: Mr. Ackler was shot to death at a Denver public housing complex by Police Officer Brian Sides as cops tried to arrest him for allegedly assaulting a security guard. Cops had earlier come to Ernest's apartment in response to a neighbor's complaint that he was too loudly playing his electric guitar.

  They gave him a ticket and left. A security guard who was a former cop waited by the door to make sure that Ernest complied. The guard claimed that Ernest knew who had called the police and pounded on their wall, shouting obscenities. The security guard knocked on the door and asked him to stop and claims that Ernest attacked him. The guard punched him back, then called the police. The two cops who had come before returned around 12:15 a.m. but Ernest would not open the door. A caretaker unlocked the door and the cops broke through the chain lock. The security guard (the former cop) claims Ackler fired first and that Officer Sides fired back in self-defense. The police claim Ernest fired twice but said they didn't know how many times the cop fired. The district attorneys office ruled the shooting justifiable. Manuel Moreno Delgado30Salvadoran

  =========

  December 22, 1996. Lakewood: Mr. Delgado was shot and killed around 2 a.m. by off-duty Denver Police Officer Michael Pace. Officer Pace and Officer Karon Price, also off-duty, were driving in separate cars. They claim that Manuel tried to run Officer Pace off the road and then pointed a handgun at him. Officer Pace fired six shots, hitting Manuel twice in the head and once in the chest. Police claim they found a gun in the victim's car that was traced to a previous user. Manuel was returning from a company Christmas party. His family said they never heard of him having a gun (although they reportedly said he was drunk) and retained a civil rights lawyer. They held a press conference Dec. 31, the day of the funeral. The lawyer called the cops highway hoodlums and said the case reeks for justice. Manuel Moreno Delgado, described as a hard-working immigrant from El Salvador who held two jobs, left behind a wife and two children, ages six years and 11 months. The only witnesses to come forward as of Dec. 31 were the cops. Manuel's family and co-workers called on other witnesses to come forward.

  ===========

  March 20, 1996. Denver: Mr. Truax was shot and killed while driving a car outside a bar. Sgt. Kenneth Chevez and Officer Andy Clarry emptied their guns, shooting 25 bullets into the victim's car, because they claim they thought he was trying to hit them. Jeff was unarmed. One of his three passengers was shot and wounded. A police spokesperson said the shooting was justified and the Denver District Attorney declined to press charges against the two officers. As of January, 1998, Officer Chevez still remained on the force and had been involved in four non-fatal shootings in addition to the shooting death of Jeff Truax. One year after the incident, Jeff's family and friends held a a vigil to remember their loved one's death and to demand justice. In Nov., 1998, a federal jury awarded Mr. Truax's estate $500,000 in a civil lawsuit filed against the city.

  ===========

  January 18, 1995. Denver: William was shot twice in the back and once in the face and killed by police around 2 a.m. in the 1800 block of South King Street after a short car chase in which William and another youth fled from police in a stolen jeep. The bullet that killed William went through his heart. Cops followed and tried to stop the jeep when they saw a broken wing window and an expired temporary permit. The jeep supposedly rammed two police cars and tried to accelerate away. Three cops fired 12 shots because, they claim, they feared being run over. However, a lawsuit filed by William's family contends that the shots were fired from the rear or the side of the car and that the car was disabled before the fatal shots were fired. In other words, the cops were not in any danger when they opened fire. In May, 1997 or 1998, a federal jury exonerated the three cops Officers Frank Harrington, Douglas A. Stephens and Angelo Abeita ù of using excessive force but awarded the family of the victim $400,000 in damages against the city and $10,000 for wrongful death from two of the three cops. Both sides called this verdict inconsistent. William's friend, Michael Dennis, who was riding with him in the jeep, was wounded but survived. In April, 1997, he settled a $2 million lawsuit against the city for $40,000. The lawsuit contended that the cops violated his civil rights by shooting him in the back at point-blank range after he surrendered by raising his arms.

  ================

  September 1, 1992. Denver (Capitol Hill): Steven Gant, an unarmed man, was shot and killed by Officer Michael Blake. Officer Blake was charged and brought to trial but acquitted of second-degree murder and reckless manslaughter. Steven had supposedly had an altercation with his girlfriend and neighbors called the police. He allegedly fled the apartment building at 1032 E. 14th Ave. in Capitol Hill. When cops arrived, they tracked him to a nearby apartment building.

  Witnesses at the trial said Steven, who had allegedly struck Blake in the chest, yelled Don't shoot! Dont shoot! before he was shot. Officer Blake claimed that Steven (who was unarmed) had yelled You won't shoot.

  You won't shoot, but I will. A lawsuit filed by the family in 1993 was settled in 1998 for an undisclosed amount.

  =========

  January 1998. Pueblo: The victim was shot and killed by a member of the police SWAT team while cops were serving a search warrant. Authorities claim the man pointed a shotgun at the officer.

  ============

  1996. Lakewood: Mr. Watt died after police arrived at his home to find him hanging from a tree and his wife Gail rushing towards him with a knife. The cops ordered her to drop the knife and detained her in her apartment, preventing her from cutting down her husband. Tim Watt died and Gail sued the officers, charging that her and her husband's constitutional rights were violated when they interfered with her rescue attempt. Judge Clarence Brimmer dismissed the case, ruling that there is no recognized right to be free from interference in rescue attempts and that while The officers may have been negligent in failing to cut down Mr. Watt from the tree, it cannot be said from the facts pleaded that the officers were reckless in the constitutional sense.

  ==============

  1995. Denver: Benny was shot four times and killed by Officer Scott Blatnick. Benny had allegedly beaten his mother and was supposedly waving knives. Police and the DA's office claim that he lunged at Officer Blatnick, refused repeated orders to drop the knives and told the police to shoot him. Only one witness corroborated the police version and the details of his testimony conflicted with that of other witnesses, who all deny that Benny made any threatening move toward the cops. Benny's mother and other relatives say he was retreating when he was shot. The Denver District Attorney ruled that the shooting was justified and did not press charges; the police chief rejected a finding of the Public Safety Review Commission that Officer Blatnick used unnecessary force. The family filed a $2 million civil rights lawsuit; as of late March, 1998, it looked as if the family and the city would settle the lawsuit for $30,000.

  ==========

  1984. Denver (16th Street mall): Leonard was shot and killed by Officer Frederick Spinharney, who claimed he thought Leonard had a knife. The weapon turned out to be a set of nail clippers. Officer Spinharney was not disciplined for this killing, but a federal jury awarded Zuchels family $499,361 in 1993. In 1998, Officer Spinharney was dismissed after shooting out the tire of a car he was trying to pull over in violation of departmental policy. At the hearing in this incident, Spinharney claimed he thought the driver was trying to flee in a stolen car and said, The impulse just struck me to shoot the tire and incapacitate the car.... The police chief expressed concern about the liability the city could face if it kept Spinharney on the force.

  ========

  Gregory L. Smith Jr. (18): Shot dead by Denver Police officers at 12:55 am, Wednesday, January 30, 2002. Denver Police were called by Gregory's mother because her son's behavior was violent and possibly suicidal. After police arrived, Smith, who was in the basement pulled out an open pocket knife, police on the landing above Smith opened fire, striking Smith five times. There were six Denver Police officers at the scene. Smith's mother and sister dispute the police account saying no warning was given and that Smith was not advancing on the police. Autopsy results showed no drugs or alcohol in Smith. Officer Bob Silvas, one of the shooters, has killed five men during his career and has an extensive record of excessive violence, including domestic violence.

  =========

  Saul Montoya (45) : Died while in police custody on Sunday, January 13, 2002. Police received a 911 call at 6:30 am about a man waving a gun at people driving by the intersection of Alameda and Federal. The unidentified officers who responded spotted Montoya near the McDonald's on Alameda.

  Officers claim Montoya was very agitated and uncooperative. Police placed Mr, Montoya in a Ripp Restraint, a variant of the hog-tie restraint. Mr. Montoya was pronounced dead at Denver Medical Health Center at 7:11 am. Mr. Montoya was not armed, he was waving his cell phone. Denver Police only started using the Ripp Restraint after Albert Compoz died in a hog-tie restraint on July 27, 2001. Police departments have known for at least 10 years that hog-tie type restraints are lethal. Autopsy results are still pending.

  ===========

  Vic McLaughlin(35): On November 11, 2001, McLaughlin was rushed to an unnamed Denver hospital by his mother, who believed he was having a heart attack. When his mother tried to help him from the car in the hospital lot, McLaughlin fell on top of his mother. Hospital guards and Denver Police claim they thought McLaughlin was attacking his mother and attacked McLaughlin. He died while being held in a pain compliance hold by a Denver Police officer. The officer was using numchucks to squeeze McLaughlin's ankle. An autopsy showed more than 40 bruises, 16 broken ribs and a broken sternum.

  ==============

  Albert Compoz (37) Died while in police custody in a hog-tie restraint in his home on July 11, 2001. Police were responding to a domestic violence complaint. The 1998 Amnesty International report: United States of America; Rights for All documents that police departments have long been aware that face-down restraints, and in particular, hog-tie restraints can be lethal. These forms of restraint have been banned in Los Angeles by court order as part of a settlement of $750,000 in a wrongful death lawsuit. Other cities, including New York, have also banned hog-tie style restraints. In 1995, the National Institute of Justice issued a report to police departments advising to use hog-tie restraints as little as possible because of the danger of injury or death.

  =============

  Richard Vaughn Dutson Jr. 39: On July 6, 2001, Dutson was cornered in a parking lot while stealing a car during his flight from police. Seven Officers fired 50 rounds at Dutson, hitting him 17 times. One officer unloaded his weapon and began firing again. Police allege Dutson was using the vehicle as a weapon rather than to escape. He was unarmed other than the stolen car. It is inconceivable that it was necessary for one officer to reload and resume firing. Fifty shots is excessive force.

  =============

  Ismael Mena: On the afternoon of September 29,1999, Captain Vince DiMana led a squad of Denver SWAT team officers into a supposed crack house on High Street in the Cole neighborhood in North Denver. SWAT team officers shot Ismael Mena eight times, killing him in his upstairs bedroom. Officers Mark Haney and fired through the door and the wall of Mena's bedroom.

  Police claim Mena was armed and produce an antique .22 revolver which Mena is supposed to have fired 3 times. The pin which holds the cylinder is broken, requiring the user to manually line up the cylinder with the barrel of the gun. Mena is alleged to have sat up after having been shot several times and return fire. Attempts by the police and the DA to cover up the fact that the police raided the wrong house and to link Mena to drug trafficking by altering documents were uncovered and made public.

  Mena worked the night shift at the nearby Coca-Cola plant. An autopsy revealed Mena had no drugs in his system. Protests against the fatal raid and subsequent cover up resulted in the firing of both the Police Chief and the Manger of Safety. Charges against officer Joe Bini who was responsible for the raid hitting the wrong house were reduced and Bini pled guilty to misdemeanor charges in a plea bargain deal. The city paid out $400,000 in damages. The SWAT team has been officially exonerated in the shooting.

  ===========

  Gregory Eugene Rodriguez: On February 7, 1998, Mr. Rodriguez was shot once in the chest by off-duty Officer Raymond Gallardo after he supposedly tried to run Officer Gallardo down in the parking lot of the Purple Turtle Lounge. Rodriguez was leaving the lounge where Officer Gallardo moonlighted as a bouncer. He was unarmed. This case has many similarities to the Jeff Truax killing which later resulted in a $500,000 Jury award (later reduced to $250,000). The civil case is still pending.

  http://flyservers.com/members5/policecrime.com/killed/co_police.html

• September 28, 2006

  8:26 PM

  COP writes:

  7:41:
  First, I don’t know anyone who is pro-violence, pro-crime and pro-drugs. That’s like saying one is pro baby killing. The fact you have to set up your statement in this manner is proof positive you do in fact have an axe to grind.

  Secondly you say you have seen cops do many bad things, yet you decline to give examples. This is argument by anecdote and is intellectually dishonest. I can give several examples of defendants who have done the same. Does this mean all defendants are slime? Of course not. The over – generalization is further proof of your bias. The same is shown by your statement that you wouldn’t let family members in your home simply because they are law enforcement. Your bias is obvious because you don’t cite examples, only your hatred of another because they wear a badge and for no other reason.

  What is your security background? That’s about as vague as one can get. A janitor for the police department has security access. Your statement is pointless because it is too simplistic.

  What have you done with SWAT teams and what have you seen that illustrates their bloodlust? Have gone on trainings with them? Have you gone to briefings, de-briefings after exercises and seen the extraordinary amounts of hard work that goes into just trying to get on the SWAT team, let alone the elite training they are required to undergo? Obviously not, otherwise you would have cited such examples.

  How does the police story not add up? It’s easy to make a conclusion without basing it on anything. It’s like saying “green cars are better than blue cars.” There’s no proof to support that claim and as such is faulty logic. What reports have you read? Have you read the police reports? I’ll wager the only things you have seen are what has been released to the media. Let’s remember the media’s job is to sell itself, not report facts. Whatever sells is what gets reported. You need to check your facts better instead of simply stating opinion in order to be persuasive.

  Lastly you say you “believe the girl bolted and was shot by police as she ran towards them in the smoke caused by the explosives the police used to storm the room.” What facts back this up? How do you know the girl ran toward them? What explosive was used (some flash-bangs have smoke, some do not)? How was she shot? What was the trajectory of the shot? All these are facts of which not only you, but everyone is unaware. Your conclusions are not only sloppy, but downright irresponsible!

  You say you’ve witnessed police make matters worse. How so? What did you do to exacerbate the situation? Police are trained to try to de-escalate the situation, so it’s highly unlikely that your views are accurate. Rather, they are influenced by your obvious bias. So you believe the police less and less with each hour. What are you reading? Why do you think that? Again your statements are only opinion without support. You only are able to cite conclusions without any facts. If you are bold enough to make such statements, you had better be able to back them up with verifiable and substantiated facts.

  Why do you say Colorado cops are not honest? Have you met every Colorado cop? I’ll bet not. Why do cops get miffed at you? What cause do you have to provoke them? That’s like saying "I hate dogs because they get miffed at me," without adding that you insist on pulling the dog’s tail. What facts are you leaving out? Why do you leave them out? Certainly because they refute your point.

  Obviously your search for the truth is sorely lacking. You need to back up your beliefs something more tangible than rhetoric. Don’t make such irresponsible statements without due regard for the truth. While you have the 1st amendment right to speak, do it responsibly and not as carelessly as you have recently shown. Then you would have some credibility.
  

• September 28, 2006

  8:28 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  Cop

  Boulder: Cause of Death? Taser
  Read ArticleArticle Source: 9news.com
  police, war-on-drugs, taser

  BOULDER COUNTY - The county coroner, Thomas Faure, determined an arrested man's death last month was caused by acute cardiac arrhythmia after he was hit with a Taser.

  The 21 year old 130 pound man in this case was tasered to death by police after being caught with a small marijuana cultivation in a vacant lot in a suburban neighborhood. It has not been made public how many times the man was tasered. Friends say Ryan Wilson was a peaceful man who loved artwork and nature.

• September 28, 2006

  8:38 PM

  COP writes:

  8:22 p.m.:

  It's easy to cut and paste something from a website that produces propaganda. Let's look, shall we, at their opening line on their website:
  "PoliceCrimes.com represents, personal opinion, idea, conjecture, news stories, history and/or rambling."

  The key words here are 'opinion', 'conjecture' and 'rambling'. They make no effort to discern the truth and would not dare concede the other side has a point. Rather, they are only interested promoting their misinformation and try to pass it off as legitmate fact. If given time, I could refute every one of those "incidents" and show that every cop action was within policy.

  This website, calling itself PoliceCrimes.com has no interest in the truth, but only to promote itself and has no cites to evidence that back up their statements. In several of those postings, facts are either misstated, misrepresented or completely left out.

  Nice try but backing one's points with half-truths from an admitted biased source illustrates only your laziness and inability to articulate anything other than you what have been spoon fed by groups wtih an agenda. Don't waste these good readers time unless you have something legitmate to post.
  

• September 28, 2006

  8:47 PM

  COP writes:

  8:28 p.m.:

  So what is your point? Again a news snippet without many facts to back it up.

  Have you ever heard of the study that tried to see if if frogs with no legs can hear. They played loud music to frogs without legs but they wouldn't jump. The conclusion? Frogs without legs can't hear. It's the same faulty logic.

  Also, for anyone reading this, there has never been an instance of someone being "Tasered to death." Look more closely at the report. Does it say that the Taser was the cause of death? Does it say that the Taser was even related to the cause of the death? It also doesn't say how many times the man was "tasered." It could have been only one time. Again, no facts, only conjecture and misleading statements.

  So friends said kind things about him. That's nice. But it doesn't prove anything.

  Once you start reading critically, you will see how you have been duped. I'll look forward to speaking with you once you've learned to think for yourself!

  FYI: The company that makes those Tasers (TASER, INC.) has not had to pay out one set in settlments or lawsuits for wrongful death. Why? Because the Tasers didn't cause the death.
  

• September 28, 2006

  9:27 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  Cop

  I just listed tons of examples of cops shooting unarmed people.

  Fact: One of my best friends as a teen sold pot and is now a Denver police officer and no longer a good friend.

  Fact: that same childhood friend and current Denver police officer used fake id's to buy alcohol when he was underage.

  Fact: My step-family that are police officers seem to overlook what I believe is child abuse carried out by their father. The step-family member desperately wants to be on the local SWAT team and his father has a lot of pull at the city so he will never turn in his father. He has a disdain for people that are not police officers by the names he calls people that are not cops. No need to post the vulgar names he calls people on this blog.

  Fact: For security reasons I do not discuss the specifics of my security and military background other than to say I worked in the security field as a security expert for many years. I never been a janitor but I do believe in tidiness.

  Fact: I have worked with SWAT mostly on state security posts protecting state officials but again for security reasons I will not post exactly what my capacity was although I was directly responsible for the physical safety of certain state officials. No state official under my watch was ever harmed.

  Fact: Cops get miffed at me if they are criminals and I expose their criminal behavior. Most criminals get mad at me because I would like to see them go to prison. No surprise there. Honest cops don't get mad at me.

  Fact: Two police officers encouraged me to physically fight a man that had stolen some money from me. I told them there was no need to fight as I had him on tape steeling. The police officers chastised me for not fighting physically. The guy that stole from me had a 15 page criminal record. He had to pay me back working his prison sentence. All was done by the book and I got a a guilty verdict even though the cops thought street justice was in order.

  Fact: I have been asked by the police to engage in illegal activity to help trace fugitives. I declined.

  Fact: An Aurora police officer appeared to be driving drunk and almost hit me with his squad car. I stopped him in the neighborhood I lived in and asked if he needed help. He lied and said he it was not him that almost hit me with his car. I said it was as I had his license plate number and he fit the description of the officer that I saw almost hit only minutes before. He jumped out of his cruiser, put his hand on his baton and was about to beat me to a pulp when he stopped because I believe he thought I might be a police officer in plain clothes. I contacted his superiors and he had to take additional driving classes.

  Fact: I have never filed a false police report in my life.

  Fact: I have never received a DUI in my life.

  Of course I do not know the details of this crime in minutia. On the information I have obtained so far I do not believe the police story. You are a cop and biased in favor of cops. That is your option. So be it. I am comfortable with my investigative skills and reading comprehension skill level.

  I have witnessed police lie on street stops, lie on theft reports, I have seen police steal drugs, beat people needlessly, entrap people, cover for white collar and some blue collar criminals, lie to cover for other police officers almost 95% of the time, beat their wives, drive drunk and lie that they were being attacked when in fact they were doing the attacking. I posted many examples of police brutality and police killing unarmed people. For every armed cop that has been killed I can name at least a dozen unarmed people that have been killed by police officers.

  Still, I do not be a cop to be against cops that are criminals and to this hour I do not believe the police story on how this particular crime went down.

  Good luck trying to invoke authority over me. I have been in some hairy situations and lived to tell about it. I fight for justice and have zero tolerance for corrupt police officers whom I hold to a higher standard than most people.

• September 28, 2006

  9:32 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  Cop

  You have zero credibility with me. I posted many instances of police killing unarmed people. I don't think you are helping your fellow officers that much. My guess is you want to be in SWAT real bad. Let's discuss your background shall we?

• September 28, 2006

  9:41 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  Cop

  Here are some questions that I hope you will answer honestly:

  Ever done an illicit drug in your life?

  Would you lie to protect a fellow officer?

  Ever speed over 90mph outside of your work as an officer?

  Do you desire to be on a SWAT team?

  Do you drink alcohol?

  Did you steel anything over $100 dollars in value as a cop or before becoming a cop?

  Is your family life stressful?

  Are you in any debt?

  Have you ever engaged in sodomy?

  Do you believe in God?

  Do you have many non police officer friends?

  Do you beat or have you ever beat your wife or girlfriend?

  Ever cheat sexually on your wife or girlfriend?

  Are you heterosexual?

  Do you have military experience?

  Do you understand the sociology of crime?

  Are you familiar with truth suppression techniques our government uses?

• September 28, 2006

  9:52 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  Cop

  http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/articlehybrid.aspx?storyID=urn:newsml:reuters.com:20060810:MTFH47422_2006-08-10_00-00-48_N09348444&type=comktNews&rpc=44

  UPDATE 2-Taser settles lawsuits, to take charge

  NEW YORK, Aug 9 (Reuters) - Stun gun maker Taser International Inc. (TASR.O: Quote, Profile, Research) said on Wednesday that it has agreed to pay nearly $22 million to settle several lawsuits, including a shareholder class-action case, and its shares rose more than 2 percent after hours.

  The settlements remove a drag on the company. Taser faced a welter of shareholder lawsuits claiming executives played down the risks of its weapons to artificially pump up its share price. Legal costs were in part to blame for second-quarter earnings that were lower than expected.

  Reports of a number of deaths of people who had been shot with a Taser caused widespread concern about the company's products.

  The stock hit a high of $33.45 in late December 2004, but more than halved to $13.96 in mid-January 2005 after the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission launched an inquiry into statements by Taser executives on the safety of its stun guns.

  The probe was eventually dropped with no charges being filed.

  Taser shares closed down 18 cents at $6.89 on Nasdaq on Wednesday, but rose 2.3 percent to $7.05 in after-hours trading on INET.

  The Scottsdale, Arizona,-based company said it will pay $20 million to resolve the shareholder lawsuit, including $7.9 million in cash, $8 million in stock or cash, and $4.1 million from insurance proceeds.

  To resolve several derivative lawsuits, the company said it will pay $1.75 million in company stock to cover attorney fees and agreed to appoint a lead independent director to its board. The lead independent director will be chosen from the three independent directors currently serving on the board. Continued...

• September 28, 2006

  9:58 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  Cop

  http://www.wtol.com/Global/story.asp?S=3746816

  Taser Lawsuits Filed

  Aug 22, 2005 03:51 AM

  
  PHOENIX (AP) -- An Toledo patrolman is among police officers from five states who have sued the Arizona-based maker of Tasers, claiming they were seriously injured after being shocked with the electronic stun gun in training classes.

  In the past two weeks, four lawsuits have been filed in Maricopa County Superior Court here on behalf of officers in Florida, Kansas, New Mexico and Ohio. A fifth was filed in St. Louis. The lawsuits accuse Taser International Inc. of encouraging officers to get shocked during training and of hiding information on injuries to about a dozen other injured officers. The officers claim they suffered "severe and permanent" injuries including broken spines, burns, a shoulder dislocation and soft-tissue injuries.

• September 28, 2006

  10:06 PM

  Holier Than Thou writes:

  On any given day you can count five or six police cars between Bailey and Fairplay trolling for dollars and pulling people over for next to nothing. Park County has nothing but pick-pockets in police uniforms strutting around with their belts full of weapons and pissing on the civil rights of random victims who venture into Park County.

  These bums are not worth a penny of tax-payers' money and have provided the world with incontrovertible proof of their total incompetence and dereliction in their duty to protect the public.

  To answer Fred Wegener's question of what I would do if I were him: resign and go look for a different career. I hear the Cutthroat Cafe has an opening.
  

• September 28, 2006

  10:20 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  So far the police version does not add up for me even though I think the perp was a dirtbag and I'm glad he is dead.

• September 28, 2006

  10:59 PM

  David Hakala writes:

  I recall the first week after Columbine, when suddenly everyone entering a public school was required to sign in, complete a name tag, and hang it around his/her neck. I was a volunteer classroom assistant so I was there every day.

  I used a different name every day: Jeffrey Dahmer, Richard Speck, Ted Bundy, and yes, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold.

  Nobody took the slightest notice, so I soon stopped wearing a tag at all.

  That got noticed, but only by one of my Wolf Cubs, a second-grader.

  "OOOOHHH, Mr. Hakala! YOU'RE not wearing a NAME TAG!"

  The poor little guy looked horrified, like his Den Leader was soon to be clapped in handcuffs. :-)

  Public school security has not changed one iota, apparently.

• September 29, 2006

  4:01 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  "A picture of the assailant became a little clearer Thursday as well. Morrison was something of a loner — A MAN WHOSE PASSIONS WERE HIS GUNS and Colorado's rugged mountain country. Police didn't believe he was close to his family."

  Of course, another gun nut.

• September 29, 2006

  7:00 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  Hogar De Vuelta - 02:27 PM

  I'm not under 30. these people should be in jail. I don't understand how you think I believed differently from reading my posts.

  I just don't like the political blame game that's going on. People are blaming the cops, society in general, etc. There is only 1 person to blame here. One person that caused this to happen

• September 29, 2006

  8:32 AM

  Monday Morning Quarterback writes:

  What I want to know is if the police exhausted every possibility before forcing this poor man to kill himself. I think his family should be ready to sue Park County and hold Wegener personally accountable. After all, these were HIS cops, HE made every decision in this case.

  I think the police should have tried more collaborative cooperation with the poor man. After all, WE made him do this. WE are to blame. The police shoul dhave used holistic, natural solutions to prevent this unnecessary death.

• September 29, 2006

  8:36 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  You people are crazy. Lets be compassionate and worry about the insane man with a gun in his hand, and a history of gun related problems. Forget about the poor girls he is holding hostage. The guy left a suicide note, he wasn't just doing this for attention.

• September 29, 2006

  8:55 AM

  fiesty writes:

  As a mother, I feel so sorry for both the slain girl's family, and the other students traumatized by this experience. My son is 10, and I am so scared of him going to middle and high school....

• September 29, 2006

  9:01 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  . My son is 10, and I am so scared of him going to middle and high school...."

  So home-school him. It's the right thing to do.

• September 29, 2006

  9:07 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  Home schooling is way worse. So many home school kids are screwed up because they lose the social skills you otherwise gain by going to school. Yes, this tragedy happened in a school, but it could have happened anywhere else. Blame the PSYCHO that did this, not the environment that it happened in.

• September 29, 2006

  9:16 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  Home-schooled kids are way more polite and usually several grades above public school kids. The whole social thing is bunk. How much positive socializing goes on in public schools? Not much if at all and especially for boys. I don't feel sorry anymore for people in public schools. I hire and associate with home-schooled kids only now. Most of the socializing in public schools is kids teasing each other and especially rude girls teasing boys. Home schooled kids are pleasant to be around and from my experience about a 1,000% more honest the public school kids. There are plenty of opportunities for socializing for home-schooled kids as they are usually involved in artistic endeavors or socialize at their local church. Wait until they push homosexuality on your kid in public schools. That is the type of socializing that happens in public schools.

• September 29, 2006

  9:20 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  Monday Morning Quarterback is just one of the right wing no names trying to discredit their enemy, liberals. BTW, he is the same one who posts under "Howard Dean".

  Such clever tactics!

• September 29, 2006

  9:22 AM

  David (R) writes:

  Monday Morning QB said, ".... before forcing this poor man to kill himself."

  Are you out of your mind, or simply unaware of the circumstances of this issue? This "poor man" went in, stuck a gun in the faces of a number of students, weeded out the girls that he wanted to rape, released the rest, and then proceeded to molest them, leaving them irreparably scarred for life. Even when the police burst into the room, the decision to kill the girl, and then himself, was solely his.

  The only possible exception to that is gaining validation that the bullet was from the Morrison's gun, rather than a random or intentional shot from police, which will be found out in due course as the forensic evidence is processed.

  "poor man" - indeed - if you think I'm missing something, please elaborate.

• September 29, 2006

  9:25 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  There is much more to school than just socializing with other kids. Public school kids also socialize with adults in the school system, that are state certified to be there. Children need more adults in their life than just their parents. They'll never learn anything that way.

• September 29, 2006

  9:27 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  "Blame the PSYCHO that did this, not the environment that it happened in."

  I blame the cops if they shot the girl.

  Our sick society shares some of the blame as well. Interesting how people don't seem to care about the root cause of violence. Just go thru life wishing the police will protect you . Hear no evil and see no evil seems to be what people are saying. Violence can be prevented.

  What caused the loser to freak out? A series of events caused him to lose it. What were those events? It appears lack of money was an issue. What else? Could he have been helped? Why did he target females? Was he being teased by women and lashed out physically? Apparently he was being belittled by women in his daily life. Was that what caused him to snap?

• September 29, 2006

  9:27 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  David (R) ....

  Kind of scary, the stupidity that exists out there in the world, eh?

  MMQB should be raped a few times and we'd then be able to ask how he likes it, and if the perp was a "poor man".

  Certainly he was just trying to provoke comment, right? Nobody is actually that stupid to really mean what he posted.

  Then again .....

• September 29, 2006

  9:31 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  9:25 You sound like a teacher that is a member of NAMBLA.

• September 29, 2006

  9:37 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  "Public school kids also socialize with adults in the school system, that are state certified to be there."

  Again, a parent usually does a better job of teaching their kid than some cold state certified "teacher" that pushes ungodly behavoir including homosexuality on kids.

  Public school teachers should not be "hanging-out" with students. Kids need to "play" with other kids and not adults. There is not much positive socializing in public schools.

  So send your kids to public schools. Makes no difference to me. I admire parents that home-school their kids.

• September 29, 2006

  9:39 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  "9:25 You sound like a teacher that is a member of NAMBLA."

  Nope, neither. Just an observer of all of the kooky parents who think they know everything, and think they are capable of teaching the subjects that people go to college and specialize in. I guaruntee you most parents that home school their children are overly religious and under educated.

  And to 9:27, your statements are pointless until something comes out that even remotely points to the cops shooting the girl. Nothing even comes close to that at this point.

• September 29, 2006

  9:43 AM

  David (R) writes:

  On the issue of school/home school/etc,

  My oldest son was Charter schooled thru 8th grade, then home schooled thru 2 years of HS, and he then went and took his GED test so he could get to college. My daughter has attended Charter School thru 8th, and is finishing her Sr. year at a traditional HS. My youngest son completed 6th grade at a traditional grade school, and is now starting his freshman year at online school (www.bransonschoolonline.com).

  All three love the paths they have taken, but here is an observation I have about their various schools:

  High school, seems to me to be a social club. The curriculum is largely that which was covered, or could/should have been covered in grade school. The notable exception in my daughters case is 4 years of Spanish, but I see no reason that couldn't have been started in 5th or 6th grade in place of one of the marginally necessary or worthless classes. They all learned algebra, science, biology, geography, and English in their lattter grade school years that were enough prep for Freshman college courses.

  In fact, at the online school, by the time my youngest son gets thru his Sr. year of online high school, he can have up to 45 college credits by virtue of taking that level of course online and having it validated by his school.

  I just don't believe that we are challenging our students enough, and then providing the tools they need to get their education.

• September 29, 2006

  9:44 AM

  COP writes:

  9:27 p.m. (I will have to use the time since you do not leave a moniker – However I presume you are the same person we discussed earlier).
  I appreciate your putting facts down in your response. Now we can engage in a legitimate discourse. I will never change your mind and conversely, you will never change mine. That is probably just as well. However, all of your issues come from your experiences without one cite to any other data, be it empirical or a study. I may just as well say that, “All people who drive BMW’s are rich, self-aborbed, neo-con, yuppies because that has been what I experienced.” You paint with too broad a brush.
  Is the reason you are no longer friends with the person who became a cop because he actually became a cop? If so, I regret to inform you that that is rather shallow. I would have to wonder about the value of your friendship. So he did some illegal things when he was underage? SO what? Do you expect all police officers to have been perfect? You obviously do, you also expect all police officers to be perfect in the execution of their duties. Tell me, how many times have you executed your job perfectly?
  The child abuse you discuss is only “what I believe to be child abuse.” Are you not able to call the authorities yourself? If you truly are in security, do you not have a duty to report this? If you haven’t then you are just as morally corrupt as those you accuse.
  Regarding your security, I still find your lack of some basic facts a cop out. It is easy to call oneself an expert. I would like to call myself on expert on NFL football, however, actually being one is dramatically different, wouldn’t you agree. The janitorial comment was not a snide remark, but only to illustrate the point. I appreciate your penchant for cleanliness!
  Your protecting of state officials is laudable, however, where does this supposed bloodlust come in? It is commendable that no official ever was harmed. What was your position though? Communication, organization? There are many possibilities that do not include placing one in harm’s way.
  In what ways has their criminal behavior been exposed? Have you ever been a cop? Ever even bothered to go on a ride along and seen the filth of humanity they are exposed to on a daily basis? I thought not. Would it surprise you to learn that the vast majority of cops are honest?
  Because of your bias, I think your perspective of the story regarding cops asking you to fight the thief who victimized you is slanted. I’m sure I would get a different story from the police officers. Why do you think that is? Not because they are crooked, but because they have a different view than you did.
  What illegal activity were you asked to engage in? Again this is opinion and not fact.
  You said and Aurora Officer “appeared to be driving drunk.” What facts support that? Did you give him roadsides tests (are you certified to administer roadsides?) What was his BAC? Again I think your biased perspective slants your version of the facts. I would like to hear his side. You have convicted all officers without hearing their side.
  “Fact: I have never filed a false police report in my life.” Good for you but irrelevant.
  “Fact: I have never received a DUI in my life.” Again admirable, but irrelevant.
  You again make only statements without facts – “I have witnessed police lie on street stops, lie on theft reports, I have seen police steal drugs, beat people needlessly, entrap people, cover for white collar and some blue collar criminals, lie to cover for other police officers almost 95% of the time, beat their wives, drive drunk and lie that they were being attacked when in fact they were doing the attacking.” I have yet to see an officer do this while I have seen the general public do this at will and when arrested, then complain that the officers were wrong.
  Your statement “I posted many examples of police brutality and police killing unarmed people. For every armed cop that has been killed I can name at least a dozen unarmed people that have been killed by police officers.” is highly dubious. The reverse is true. For each time a copy has been slapped, spit on, hit, threatened or what ever, I will show you a cop who restrained his response.
  “Still, I do not be a cop to be against cops that are criminals and to this hour I do not believe the police story on how this particular crime went down.” This statement is nonsensical. I think there are some typos there.
  “Good luck trying to invoke authority over me.” I have no wish to invoke authority over you. It appears that you have problems with authority though, regardless of who wields it.
  “I have been in some hairy situations and lived to tell about it.” Name one. Again, I am sure this is your opinion, rather than fact.
  “I fight for justice . . . ” How? Are you working for the justice system? Or do you just make speeches, criticizing those who do put their lives on the line for you?
  “. . .and have zero tolerance for corrupt police officers whom I hold to a higher standard than most people.” You certainly do not hold yourself to that high of a standard.
  

• September 29, 2006

  9:44 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  September 29, 2006 09:27 AM

  "MMQB should be raped a few times and we'd then be able to ask how he likes it"

  Rape threats against blog posters that don't agree with your twisted point of view. You sound just like Duane Morrison. You have spent much time on here making threats.

  No one should be raped or tortured. Your a real tough guy making threats on a blog.

• September 29, 2006

  9:45 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  9:37 I never said teachers should hang out with kids. That's 100% unacceptable. But there is plenty to learn from by being in a classroom with an adult that isn't your parent, and who is certified to be there. Anybody can have a child, but that doesn't instantly make them an expert in raising a kid.

  There is really no point in discussing anything with homophobic religious people.

• September 29, 2006

  9:46 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  Wow, a cop that can type. There goes profiling out the window.

• September 29, 2006

  9:47 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  9:43 .... no, ya dummy .... the bastard raped several girls after threatening them with a gun for hours. If you don't see those actions are wrong, completely irrespective of whether or not the police shot him, or he shot himself, then you're too freakin' stupid to be posting here.

• September 29, 2006

  9:47 AM

  Paul Simon writes:

  When I look back on all the crap I learned in High School, it's a womder I can think at all.

• September 29, 2006

  9:48 AM

  COP writes:

  9:52 p.m.
  You should check your posts more carefully. The settlement wasn't for a death caused by a TASER, rather that was an in-house suit by the shareholders of the TASER corproation regarding marketing of the Taser. Nice try, but off the mark.

• September 29, 2006

  9:49 AM

  fiesty writes:

  0927-
  Who cares what his life was like? HE made the choice to do as he did. Just because I grew up dirt poor being teased about being on welfare and being slapped around, doesn't mean I can excuse a heinous action.

  Regards homeschooling, I sorely wish I could. My son is special needs, and has a whole education support team with very specialized skills I don't have, (or the money, or time it would take to get trained before he's an adolescent). I shudder when I hear stories like this- no matter how good or vigilant a parent you are, you can't prevent it.

• September 29, 2006

  9:52 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  If you home school your kids, where will they gain valuable experiences like this one:

  http://www.thedenverchannel.com/education/9481501/detail.html

  I admire and respect anyone who homeschools, provided they have some education themselves.

• September 29, 2006

  9:53 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  the first post at 9:37 referring to 9:43, should have been referring to 9:39's last paragraph. Bottom line, Morrison's actions were wrong and if he killed himself or was shot by the police doesn't change how wrong rape and illegal retention using a gun are.

• September 29, 2006

  9:57 AM

  fiesty writes:

  0947/0953-
  I thought they said the sexual assault was not rape, but inappropriate touching (molesting)? Both heinous, but a bit of a difference.

• September 29, 2006

  9:57 AM

  COP writes:

  9:41 pm:
  I will be happy to answer your questions. As long as it’s quid pro quo and you do the same.

  Ever done an illicit drug in your life?
  A = Yes, marijuana.
  Would you lie to protect a fellow officer?
  A = Protect him from what? From a threat by a defendant? From the hierarchy? You need to be more specific? This question is much too general.
  Ever speed over 90mph outside of your work as an officer?
  A = Over 90, in my youth, yes.
  Do you desire to be on a SWAT team?
  A =None at all.
  Do you drink alcohol?
  A = Yes.
  Did you steel anything over $100 dollars in value as a cop or before becoming a cop?
  A = Before a cop Not over $100. After, nothing.
  Is your family life stressful?
  A = Of course.
  Are you in any debt?
  A = Of course.
  Have you ever engaged in sodomy?
  A = What in the world is the relevance of this question?
  Do you believe in God?
  A = Yes.
  Do you have many non police officer friends?
  A = Several.
  Do you beat or have you ever beat your wife or girlfriend?
  A = Again, what is the relevance. But for argument’s sake, I have never raised a hand to a woman in my life.
  Ever cheat sexually on your wife or girlfriend?
  A = You are the sordid type aren’t you? No, of course I haven’t.
  Are you heterosexual?
  A = Again very sordid and irrelevant. Yes.
  Do you have military experience?
  A = No.
  Do you understand the sociology of crime?
  A = Most likely better than you do and the average person.
  Are you familiar with truth suppression techniques our government uses?
  A = Define “suppression techniques.” I fear you are someone who has watched V for Vendetta too many times and are starting to believe that as fact.

  Why do you presume I am a police officer?
  

• September 29, 2006

  10:00 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  And if you homeschool your kids they can turn out just like this:

  http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05319/606646.stm

• September 29, 2006

  10:01 AM

  COP writes:

  9:46 AM:

  Actually most cops can type. We/They have to do our reports on the laptops in the cars. That's because our handwriting was so bad.

  Actually, I thank my mother for making me take typing in Jr. High. ;)

• September 29, 2006

  10:03 AM

  fiesty writes:

  hindsight is 20/20. As someone already pointed out in this blog, in Columbine, the police were blamed for NOT going in. Now folks are blaming or secondguessing them FOR going in.... Yes, it was a tragedy as a young girl lost her life. However, it could have been a much greater tragedy. Rather than play armchair expert, at least give the law enforcement officers kudos for what they did manage, and under trying circumstances at that.

• September 29, 2006

  10:07 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  9:58 PM

  Your post is irrelevant. You only cite a lawsuit that was filed. Those claims are highly dubious. Having been hit with the Taser myself, I can state that I suffered nowhere near the extent of those injuries alleged by the claimants. In fact, the only injury was pulling the hooks out of my skin.

  It would appear to be another frivolous lawsuit (unfortunately this time the carpetbaggers are men in blue - and it makes me very sad).

• September 29, 2006

  10:08 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  Homeschooling is wrong.
  
  Let's face it, homeschooling is wrong. Homeschooling for religous reasons is especialy wrong. For the most part from what I've read, it seems that parents that homeschool openly say that they do it to shelter or protect their children. They also claim there are many advantages to homeschooling. But are these really good for your children in the long run? Does it really make them better people?

  Some of the main reasons people homeschool their kids are they dont think that public schools offer a good enough education. But can a parent accually offer a better one? In most states a parent only has to have a high school diploma to teach their children. In conventional schools each teacher is specially trained to teach the subjects they teach. Even a parent with a college degree is really only educated in one subject. This limits what the children can learn.

  In a traditional classroom a child will ingage in group projects, class discussions and learn from other peers. This is an important part of learning that a homeschooled kid would not participate in. A child needs to learn how to work with others. (Activities like sports and other groups don't provide actually working intellectually with others) In a class room children also learn about different ethnicities, cultures and lifestyles. Some may be good or bad but then at least they know and maybe appreciate their lives more unlike a homeschooled child that would only know their own life.

  Being in a classroom with a teacher also teaches the child repect for the person in charge. Not just a parent. This is a quality that would be used in life such as having a job and dealing with a boss or in college. Also it is natural for a child to rebel from their parents. How is a child going to learn if he or she doesn't want to listen to you?

  When people homeschool because of religous reasons it prevents the children from learning about different religons and results in either ignorance or closemindedness. The only reason parents do this, from what i've read is that they want to instill their values and beliefs in their child. Is this fair to the child? To only know what their parents want them to know isn't fair. A major benifit in the country is that we can practice whatever religion we want. Children have that right too. Why wouldn't a person want to let their kids see other religous views? This doesn't prepare them for the real world when they leave the home.

  I was homeschool for a while when I was in highschool. I only had to have sixteen credits to graduate. Now does that sound like a good education? No, it doesn't and it did not prepare me for college. Being homeschooled is very lonely. I don't understand why parents are so set on putting their children though this. Their are thousands of websites made by homeschooling parents defending their lifestyles. There are not many sites about how homeschooling is wrong. If this is the case why are parents to determined to defend their lifestyle? Maybe it's because when they think about it they know it's wrong. A parent should not be allowed to control ever aspect of a child's life, especcially what and how they learn.

• September 29, 2006

  10:13 AM

  COP writes:

  Fiesty:
  Why, in your opinion, do the general public feel the need to jump all over law enforcement when something happens? I quite agree with you and find your post reassuring.

  However, I am curious why so many people find it necessary to criticize the actions of a situation they know next to nothing about.

  Also: An armed gunman suspected of shooting to death a Polk County sheriff's deputy after a routine traffic stop was killed Friday, police said.
  FOXNEWS

  That makes 4 officers in one 1 week. SIGH!

• September 29, 2006

  10:16 AM

  fiesty writes:

  As I reflect on what happened, I realize how much schools and society have changed in the past few decades. When I went to school, the worst parents worried about was their kids smoking a cigarette or getting a bear. Now it seems like every week or so, you hear about some school shooting or some young kid doing something truly horrifying- like that 16 yr old who carved up the lawyers wife or the 10 year old that bludgeoned a 5-yr old to death. What has changed so much or is contributing to this trend? I've noticed an utter lack of respect and manners, and think that might be a symptom too. For example, I make my son say "sir" and "ma'am" to all adults and "excuse me"- yet when I pick him up from (elementary!) school, I hear language and attitudes to parents that are apalling. I've taught my son to say thank you to firefighters and police officers, yet heard teenagers hurtling insults at some officer sent to keep them from skateboarding in a busy intersection. There was an utter lack of respect for both the law and the ones enforcing it. What's going on?

• September 29, 2006

  10:30 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  10:08 Says:
  "In a traditional classroom a child will ingage in group projects"
  Is that anything like "engage"???

  I can see your time in public schools was well spent.

• September 29, 2006

  10:35 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  10:08 .... what a load of crap. You don't want to homeschool your kid(s), don't - but stay out of other people's lives regarding how they educate their kid(s). What amazes me is that you can hold your beliefs even after years and years of declining literacy and testing scores, regardless of the fact that the tests have been dumbed-down. More than 30% of high school graduates can't _____ ..... c'mon, fill in the blank

  is it write?

  
  Is it do algebra?

  
  is it be logical?

  
  NO - it's COUNT. Over 30% can't count to 100. Even more can't point to France on a world map. Even more can't write a coherent paragraph summarizing a short story. Public school is failing, thanks to the NEA - not necessarily the teachers.

  Stop bashing folks who hold a religious belief and want more for their kids than what the establishment tries to give them.

• September 29, 2006

  10:37 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  CURSE THAT PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM AND IT'S SPELLING ERRORS!

  IT"S ONLY FOR GAYS AND ATHIESTS!

  I'M WAY BETTER OFF SAFE AT HOME WITH MY GUNS!

• September 29, 2006

  10:40 AM

  fiesty writes:

  "Fiesty:
  Why, in your opinion, do the general public feel the need to jump all over law enforcement when something happens?"

  Personally, COP, I think it's a combination of factors. First, you have media that presents incomplete, skewed information. Second, it's folks who don't have the first-hand knowledge of what actually happened but are convinced they know what did. Third, people tend to jump to conclusions. Fourth, most folks tend to resent authority, even if it's on a subconscious level. Fifth, there are a few bad seeds in any occupation; unfortunately for law enforcement in general, it erodes the public trust when it happens to them.

  Personally, I tend to take the side of law enforcement in most (but not all) issues. If folks would simply follow the law, and do as directed by police, there would be few problems. Even that young man who supposedly died had everyone up in arms because it was "simply over a little marijuana"; yet they gloss over the fact that he ran from police. That's a mistake. Period. However, if there are cases of "street justice", police intimidation, or police brutality, of course it needs to be pursued. But it would be nice if people would reserve judgment until after they had all the facts...

• September 29, 2006

  11:01 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  Hello?

• September 29, 2006

  11:04 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  Cop

  You did not answer my questions nor did you read my posts with any depth. I listed many unarmed people that have been killed by police. Those are facts. Fact is for every one armed police officer killed by a criminal I can name a dozen unarmed people killed by police. The key is unarmed. I never said cops don't get spit on or cursed out while on patrol. One must remain calm at all times so one can think clearly consistently.

  Try answering my personality questions cop. What are you afraid of? The truth?

  I will state for the third time that I do not discuss my security experience in detail. On some jobs I was in the direct line of fire and others I was not.

  I ended the friendship after I learned he was selling drugs. I was stunned that he became a cop. Yes, he was a teen when he sold drugs but he did it as late as 19. Yes, I hold police to a higher standard than you do.

  Since my security job was the physical safety of certain public officials and no public officials were hurt under my watch I had a perfect success rate of 100%.

  If I shot an innocent by mistake I would not lie about it. I would never file a false report to cover my ass and I would never file a false report to protect a cop who is a criminal.

  I reported to my step-family member who is a cop the suspected child abuse. He noted my comment. I also made the child's parents of aware of my suspicions. I did my civic duty.

  I was not a police officer at the time I spoke with the police officer who almost ran into me so I could not administer a sobriety test. I made his superiors aware of his erratic driving. The officer had to get additional training. My comments were noted on his file.

  "I thought not. Would it surprise you to learn that the vast majority of cops are honest?"

  Not when it comes to their own faults or lying to protect themselves or other police officers.

  "Ever even bothered to go on a ride along and seen the filth of humanity they are exposed to on a daily basis?"

  Yes, and again I hold police to a higher standard. Most people are good. If you think humanity is so filthy why do you wallow in the mud cop?

  As far as the police encouraging me to administer street justice I am comfortable with going through the courts instead. I do not know their reasons for their suggestion. I felt they were giving bad advice so I ignored it.

  You so far have refused to answer my list of personality questions.

  "You certainly do not hold yourself to that high of a standard."

  I hold myself to the highest of standards. So much so that people tell me I should lower my own standards.

  Your argument is laughable and you have skirted "tackling" my questions on your personality.

  Today, I still believe the police shot the girl by mistake and no rape occurred. I may change my opinion when and if I receive more facts about this particular case.

  By the way, I picked Pittsburg to win the the Superbowl last year. Who did you pick Mr. football Einsten?

  Try answering my personality questions honestly and thoroughly next time you post.

  You deny the obvious which is one truth supression technique. Do you hang out with Kat? Are you her parole officer?
  

• September 29, 2006

  11:14 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  Ever done an illicit drug in your life?
  A = No.
  Would you lie to protect a fellow officer?
  A = No.
  Ever speed over 90mph outside of your work in security?
  A = Yes.
  Do you desire to be on a SWAT team?
  A =No.
  Do you drink alcohol?
  A = Yes.
  Did you steel anything over $100 dollars in value as a cop or before becoming a cop?
  A = No.
  Is your family life stressful?
  A = No.
  Are you in any debt?
  A = No.
  Have you ever engaged in sodomy?
  A = No
  Do you believe in God?
  A = Yes.
  Do you have many non police officer friends?
  A = Yes.
  Do you beat or have you ever beat your wife or girlfriend?
  A = No.
  Ever cheat sexually on your wife or girlfriend?
  A = No.
  Are you heterosexual?
  A = Yes.
  Do you have military experience?
  A = Yes.
  Do you understand the sociology of crime?
  A = Yes.
  Are you familiar with truth suppression techniques our government uses?
  A = Yes

• September 29, 2006

  11:26 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  Cop

  Thank God you do not want to be on SWAT. I am concerned about your debt and stress in your family life. I would work to reduce stress in those areas. The questions were designed for yes or no answers and you were evasive on a few answers and refused to answer one question all together leading me to believe you are not square in some some of your beliefs and that you are somewhat compromised. You failed to answer the sodomy question which is a giant red flag in my book. Have you ever engaged in sodomy? Yes or no?

• September 29, 2006

  11:37 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  "I guaruntee you most parents that home school their children are overly religious and under educated."

  Public schooled children are educated in how to be dishonest dorks.

  The fact is home-schooled usually test at several grades above their public schooled counterparts.

  I associate with people that home school their kids. Low stress that way and I don't worry about obnoxious behavior from their kids like public school teachers. The rudest most belligerent kids I have ever met have all been public schooled.

• September 29, 2006

  11:38 AM

  Hogar De Vuelta writes:

  September 29, 2006 07:00 AM

  There is certainly a lot of blame going around on this blog. Most of it seems to be aimed at blaming the police. That corresponds to the other blogs where they blame everything on the Bush administration.

  It appears that faulty intelligence and a poor plan are the universal blame game for all that goes wrong in the world when the establishment is involved.

  A society that views the rights of criminals as more important than the rights of law abiding citizens creates an atmosphere where people like Morrison fester until something bad like this happens.

• September 29, 2006

  11:40 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  Dear Mom and Dad,

  Thanks for homeschooling me. Because of you I never got to meet girls, and I am an outcast to society. If you want to find me I'll be in my car with my guns.

  Sincerely,
  Duane Morrison

• September 29, 2006

  11:45 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  I agree! The public schools are DEFINITELY way better than homeschooling.

  http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/09/29/wisc.shooting.ap/index.html

• September 29, 2006

  11:50 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  September 29, 2006 10:08 AM

  What group projects? Hiding from homosexual gym teachers, evading capture from child molesting teachers and running from murderous students with guns into a room and waiting for the police to save them or the police to shoot innocents by mistake?

  If a parent is not smart enough to home school their kids then they should not have kids!

  The lifestyle that is taught in public schools is the sadists lifestyle hence all the students freaking out and killing people and public school teachers molesting kids. The homosexual lifestyle is taught in public schools. Drinking, smoking, drugs, obesity and glorifying tattoos is rampant in public schools.

  A person must be taught about God over religion if there is any hope for a healthy society.

• September 29, 2006

  11:53 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  "A person must be taught about God over religion if there is any hope for a healthy society."

  This country is slowly becoming more and more like Iraq. When we start to fight wars in the name of God, I'll sit back and say I told you so.

• September 29, 2006

  11:56 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/09/29/wisc.shooting.ap/index.html

  All that proves is that GUNS SHOULD BE BANNED and removed from society.

  GIVE ME A GOOD REASON ANYONE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO OWN A GUN.

• September 29, 2006

  11:56 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  September 29, 2006 11:40 AM

  Duane went to public school. No wonder he was a loser and possibly a murderer. If the police shot the girl he is not a murderer.

• September 29, 2006

  11:58 AM

  Anonymous writes:

  Home schooling is horrible!
  Where are you going to get beatings/pregnant/STDs/eating disorders/molested or bullied?

  And what are you going to do with all that parental support anyway? That's no way to start out in life!

• September 29, 2006

  12:00 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  "This country is slowly becoming more and more like Iraq. When we start to fight wars in the name of God, I'll sit back and say I told you so."

  When one sincerely believes in God war is not promoted. God is life not death. The devil is death. Sadists promote war and violence and not Godly people.

• September 29, 2006

  12:06 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  11:56 - LOL !

  I am sure Gomez-FGarcia was properly licensed and trained on the use of his weapon, as were Harris and Klebold, etc.

• September 29, 2006

  12:13 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  September 29, 2006 11:58 AM

  ROFL! Why have parents at all? Let public schools raise kids. Parents are too busy cheating on each other and creating violent music, movies and tv to be worried about raising their own silly little kids. Better yet let all kids fight in Iraq and run the sexual torture prisons over there. Parents can not be bothered with raising their own kids. Let the state raise kids with homosexual teachers that watch them shower and change in the school gym. That is so healthy for kids. Let public school teachers raise kids to be sodomites. Thank God we have public school concentration camps with homosexual gym teachers child molesting teachers and sodomites to watch over kids. If the public school teachers don't harm kids then maybe the police will accidently shoot them when a loser freaks out and starts abusing kids that are locked in the schools by the public school teachers!

• September 29, 2006

  12:17 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  I would like to repeat my condolences to all the hurt by the police or the the perp in this heinous crime.

• September 29, 2006

  12:25 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  The religious gun-toting folk that live in the middle of nowhere have issues with gay people, does that surprise me?

• September 29, 2006

  12:34 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  A lot of violence comes from gays. 3/4 of the mass murderers in the North America were/are gay or bi-sexual males.

  http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/predators/index.html#2

  If you like the gay lifestyle then send your kids to public school!.

  The Columbine losers targeted straights by the way.

  To honor the victims of violent crime people should try and figure what causes violent behavior.

  Homosexual and bi-sexual males are violent people so the stats say.

• September 29, 2006

  12:42 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  anti-gunner @ 11:56 ... first, you are an idiot .... second, you are uneducated .... third, you have little to no common sense.

  we have the right to keep and bear arms which is granted by the second amendment to the Constitution - the discussion leading to that amendment is well-documented in the Federalist Papers. buy a copy and learn how the founding fathers knew an unarmed society would eventually fall prey to their own government, so they conferred upon the people the right to keep that from happening.

  next, buy a world history book and read about how well-known despotic and tyrannical dictators such as Stalin of Russia, Pol Pot of Cambodia, various dictators down through the years in China, Adolph Hitler of Germany, Genghis Kahn of the Mongols, and many others, disarmed their people just prior to taking their other rights and usually their property - and quite often throwing them into uniform and war.

  if you ever see firearms formally outlawed in this country, you'd better be very, very afraid.

• September 29, 2006

  1:18 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  My child's school went on lockdown the same day and time the shooting happened. I thought to myself why would they lockdown a school in Thornton when Bailey is so far away?
  The next day my child brought home a letter from the school informing parents the school went on lockdown because of a bank robbery nearby.
  I think schools and law enforcement are doing better at trying to make schools safer.there is probably room for improvement,but we can't keep our kids locked up in schools in a atmosphere of fear.
  As far as teachers being friends and mentors to students,no.They are their to teach the students not to be their friends.I will be a parent and teach my child everything they need to learn outside of school.Most teachers don't think the same as my husband and I.When our child was born we signed up for the long haul and vowed to raise her and be her parents for life.We don't need interference from outside people.I'll let the teachers teach their subject and the teacher's can let us be her parents.

• September 29, 2006

  1:36 PM

  William (will) Tell writes:

  I remember some time back, that old BS about "it takes a village to raise a child". Hogwash.

  I mean, you can do it that way if you don't want to take personal responsibility for raising your own kids, but then, don't bitch about your kids picking up traits, language, and behaviors of the others in the village.

  It takes at least one good parent who gives unconditional love to the child. Two parents are better because it shouldn't always fall to one person. The parents make the decisions about schooling, theological preference, concepts of charity and kindness, and all those many other things that help form the person.

  Most parents nowadays don't even know what their kids are being taught in the public school systems. Is it okay with you if your kids are taught being gay is okay? Is it okay with you if your kids are taught there is no God? Is it okay with you if your kids are taught they shouldn't defend themselves? Is it okay with you if your kids are taught that sex with anyone isn't something to avoid if that's what they want to do? How about if they're taught the lessons of moral relativism and that it's okay to throw the retarded kid out of the boat to conserve drinking water, or that killing someone for the government is okay but if defending their home or family it isn't?

  Village my ass. Too many cooks (kooks) spoil the broth (human).
  

• September 29, 2006

  1:40 PM

  fiesty writes:

  To our anonymous poster friend out there-

  1. What the hell does sodomy, sexual orientation, or religious beliefs got to do with being a police officer??? Are you trying to say that an atheist homosexual couldn't be a good police officer? PUH-LEASE.

  2. While I DO hold police officers to a higher standard than a civilian, (due to the position of trust), it should be remembered they are human beings too. From the sounds of it, your "higher standard" seems to mean perfection. Be glad you're not in a job that's so incredibly visible to the public, so they can hold your every action under the microscope for inspection and judgment.

  3. After reading your posts, you have an incredibly negative and prejudiced attitude towards police officers. I find it hard to take at face value that you have experienced the sheer number of unethical officers that you claim; further, given your extreme attitude, it seems doubtful that you don't bear a grudge for some past encounter.

• September 29, 2006

  2:13 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  Fiesty

  You can believe what you want. I have not been impressed with law enforcement in general in Colorado to date.

  "Be glad you're not in a job that's so incredibly visible to the public, so they can hold your every action under the microscope for inspection and judgment."

  I am glad. TGIF! :-) Party! Party! Party!

  I don't take a see no evil and hear no evil approach to life. I call them as I see them.

  I still suspect the police officers shot the girl by mistake. There was no rape. The dirtbag was rummaging through the girl's backpacks and that was the sound of the zippers being opened and closed that some hostages reported.

  The girl may have been shot by a Glock which is most often the firearm of choice or the mandatory firearm for many police departments.

  My guess is the dirtbag tried to find and destroy some of the female hostages cell phones which is considered molestation by many cell phone addicted females these days.

  I never rely on police for my own personal security. I take care of that myself.

  I flat out do not believe the police story on this one.

  I have no axe to grind with police officers. I simply take what they say with a grain of salt and generally do not spend much free time with them. I hold myself to higher standards than those that I associate with.

  Have you ever engaged in sodomy Fiesty?

• September 29, 2006

  2:19 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  William (will) Tell- I agree 100%
  Hillary Clinton came up with the line, It takes a village to raise a child.Like anyone would want her and her husband helping to raise their children?

  I remember 2 years ago my child came home and told me she was interupted in reading class to go to an assembly. I asked her what was it for and she told me it was about divorce.Well I totally flipped and called the principal to ask him what was the assembly about.

  He told me it was about how to deal with divorce. I then asked him when was it the responsibility of the school system to teach my child about divorce? He then started to backpeddle and said it was to help children to deal with a child in their class who's parents divorced and he was having a hard time.The boy in the play was hitting and being mean to other children because his parents were getting a divorce.So the assembly was supposed to teach other children how to be sympathetic and understand why this boy was hitting and being mean to other children.I then asked the principal since when is it my child's responsibility to learn how to deal with adult caused problems at school.If this boy is acting out because of something his parents did, how is it my childs responsibility to deal with it.It's the schools and parent's ,my kid is there to learn not put up with bulling no matter what the cause is.
  The school is no place to teach children how to deal with adult issues.These kids were only in elementary.I asked him to send out forms asking permission from the parents if they wanted to put on anymore assemblies teaching kids about divorce or any other subject that may be questionable and let parents decide if it would be good for their children or not.

  If it's not what is in the standard curriculum it should be presented to the parents first.There hasn't been any assemblies like that since.Parents have got to be involved in their children's schools.If people are ready to turn over their parenting duties to the school system when a kid starts school,those people are not parents they are breeders.

• September 29, 2006

  2:20 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  2:13 --What in hell does Feisty's sex life have to do with any of this? What are you, some horny twelve year old playing hooky and getting off on asking women about personal issues?

  Go back under your rock!

• September 29, 2006

  2:26 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  "my kid is there to learn not put up with bulling no matter what the cause is."

  Amen! Public schools are bully factories. Lord help your kid if he states he is uncomfortbale taking showers or changing around homosexual teachers or that any public school teacher is overpaid.

• September 29, 2006

  2:29 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  "2:13 --What in hell does Feisty's sex life have to do with any of this? What are you, some horny twelve year old playing hooky and getting off on asking women about personal issues?"

  It is a way to determine behavorial traits. The question is non-offense to most normal people.

• September 29, 2006

  2:33 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  2:29 -
  You're a jackass. Some things are always inappropriate to ask a lady, and that's one of them.

• September 29, 2006

  2:34 PM

  fiesty writes:

  No, for most it has an offensive insinuation and besides, one's private life is, well, private. You have asked many completely irrelevant questions about sexual orientation, specific sexual practices, etc. Don't try to cover your wierd obsession by stating it's "a way to detemine behavioral traits"- your questions aren't valid, (I've done many, many studies and tests on behavior and personality like Myers-Briggs etc), and you're using the questions to justify prejudice and stereotypes.

• September 29, 2006

  2:36 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  I have already started to teach my children that if they are hit they have my permission to fight back.I taught them just what my mother taught me.

  Never start a fight, make sure you finish it.

  The schools still protect bullies and I am not going to allow my kids to be picked on.I don't believe in the school's policy on bullying. They are teaching the kid that is being picked on to negotiate with the bully and to walk away.If you stand up to them they will back down.That is what I teach my kids.Bullies are chickens and if you are hit by one you have my permission to kick their ass.I told them the school will probably suspend them,but not to worry, I will be their to defend them.I have made it clear they are never to start a fight.

• September 29, 2006

  2:40 PM

  fiesty writes:

  233-
  Thank you! Nice to know there are still some gentlemen out there.

• September 29, 2006

  2:40 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  Fiesty

  It was you that made the first post directed at me. The question is valid as you jumped into the debate bewteen me and cop. I do not need to know anything more about you. Your not answering tells me all I need to know.

• September 29, 2006

  2:43 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  Feisty - No prob. Always willing to defend a lady, especially a vet. Semper Fi!

• September 29, 2006

  2:43 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  233-
  Thank you! Nice to know there are still some gentlemen out there.
  Posted by fiesty on September 29, 2006 02:40 PM

  The blind leading the blind. Go back to public school and your parole officers while the good people of the world try and clean the messes you all have created.

• September 29, 2006

  2:44 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  That's a really good lesson to teach your kids.

  The only problem is that they will be more harshly disciplined than the bully who started it in the first place.

  The progressive teachers and administrators will be damned if they let an individual protect himself.

  Reference the liberal self-defense guide for details....

  1. Drop
  2. Get into fetal position
  3. Appease bully until he stops

  After the beating make an effort to understand the cultural differences that might have lead to your assult and avoid any future conflict.

• September 29, 2006

  2:46 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  Semper Fi? Ha. I'm suprised you are not in prison by now. I defend the USA and not criminals. DeVoy says hi by the way.

• September 29, 2006

  2:46 PM

  fiesty writes:

  02:40 PM -

  1. There ain't no such thing as "jumping into a debate" when you're posting on a blog.

  2. You feel free to derive whatever crazy notion you feel inclined to due to my lack of response to your inappropriate question. The rest of us will give you the courtesy you aren't showing us by judging and debating your argument by what you say. (Instead of your method of assuming whatever you want on based what the person does and does say as it fits your convenience.)

• September 29, 2006

  2:49 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/08/04/six_marines_charged_in_iraq_assault_case/

  Six Marines charged in Iraq assault case

  By Marty Graham | August 4, 2006

  CAMP PENDLETON, California (Reuters) - Six U.S. Marines were charged with assault late on Thursday in connection with suspected assaults on several Iraqi civilians in Hamdania, days before the alleged kidnapping and murder of an Iraqi civilian there.
  Article Tools

  
  Three of the Marines charged with assault Thursday, Sgt. Lawrence Hutchins III, Cpl. Trent Thomas and Lance Cpl. Jerry Shumate Jr., have already been charged with murder, kidnapping and conspiracy in the April 26 killing of 52-year-old Hashim Ibrahim Awad.

  They are being held in the brig awaiting hearings in that killing, according to Capt. Amy Malugani, a Camp Pendleton spokeswoman.

  Three others, Lance Cpl. Saul Lopezromo, Pfc. Derek Lewis and Lance Cpl. Henry Lever, were each charged with one count of assault.

  The alleged assaults on April 10 came to light during the murder investigation, according to the Naval Criminal Investigative Service.

  Hutchins is charged with assaults on three Iraqi civilians, while the other Marines are charged with assaulting one civilian each. Details of the alleged assaults will be made public on Friday, Malugani said.

  Attorneys for Hutchins, Thomas and Shumate could not be reached late Thursday.

  The six Marines were assigned to 3rd Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division before they were sent back to Camp Pendleton.

  The Hamdania murder case is just one of many in which U.S. servicemen are suspected of killing Iraqi civilians. A total of eight men have been charged with premeditated murder and other crimes in that killing.

  Other Marines at Camp Pendleton have been accused in a separate case of killing 24 civilians in Haditha, Iraq. None, however, have been charged.
  

• September 29, 2006

  2:54 PM

  fiesty writes:

  Hmmm... let me see, our 2:43 poster is a respectful individual with manners who served our country and is courteous. Let's contrast that with our anonymous poster- crude, hateful, rude, and insulting. I would guess YOU'RE the one with a parole officer....

• September 29, 2006

  2:54 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  Keep dodging the real issues Fiesty. It only makes you look bad. I have already determined your personality by the few trite responses you have given so far.

  The fact remains I think the police shot the girl by mistake.

• September 29, 2006

  2:57 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  Who's DeVoy?

  Is that one of the voices in your head?

  You know you're supposed to be ignoring those, don't you?

  I can tell you really are interesting in defending America by the way you criticize, from your mom's basement, those who really are in the business of defending this country.

  Another liberal hypocrite rears its ugly head. Keep cursing the men and women who keep you free.

• September 29, 2006

  2:59 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  Lol, it's not rude to seek the truth. What names have I called people? Hmmm...none! Who used the word "jackass." Are you on parole fiesty? Have you ever been on parole Fiesty? I have not.

  I still think the police shot the girl by mistake.

• September 29, 2006

  3:02 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  Posted by on September 29, 2006 02:57 PM

  lol! Mom's basement? Nope, I do not live with my parents. Go back to public school with your homosexual friends and teachers who live in closets.

• September 29, 2006

  3:07 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  Posted by on September 29, 2006 02:55 PM
  "I wish somebody would shoot you on purpose..."

  I bet you would.

  Cop:

  I would like to file a report of harassment and terrorist threats by September 29, 2006 02:55 PM.

• September 29, 2006

  3:16 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  I bet went September 29, 2006 02:55 PM went to public school.

  Cop:

  You see a pattern here? Now how likely is September 29, 2006 02:55 PM to hurt someone for real? Very likely in my opinion. You want to be a crime fighter cop? Then research all about September 29, 2006 02:55 PM under a judges permission. I bet you will find all sorts of illegal activity goung on with September 29, 2006 02:55 PM. That is how you avoid crimes in the future.

• September 29, 2006

  3:17 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  Why don't you try going through official channels? While you're at it, file charges on yourself for sexual harassment.

• September 29, 2006

  3:29 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  September 29, 2006 03:17 PM

  Seeing as how I would never associate with Fiesty in person nor do I wish her any harm your question is absurd.

  I received a real threat and I think if cop is a real cop he will investigate the matter thoroughly. I have proof of the threat and so does RMN.

• September 29, 2006

  3:38 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  Cop -
  3:29 is running to you because teacher is busy and his Mommy is not home yet (she's having a nooner with the gardener) Please try to appease him or he may cry.

• September 29, 2006

  3:45 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  I still think the police shot the girl regardless of the threats I receive.

  It's the same tired people making the threats. Notice most of their attacks are violent threats or sexual put downs. They have much in common with Duane. They have criminal mindsets mixed with sexual depravity. They are also sociopathic and delusional.

• September 29, 2006

  3:47 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  Ooooooh. Next he's going to hold his breath...

• September 29, 2006

  3:52 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  Cop

  Find out who posted the threat on September 29, 2006 02:55 PM and you will go a long way in preventing future crimes.

  That is a gift you can give to the girl that was murdered.

  Shouldn't cops try and prevent crime from happening in the first place or are cops only there to make a bad situation worse?

• September 29, 2006

  3:57 PM

  Anonymous writes:

  As each hour passes I believe the police version less and less. My condolences to the slain girl. Her family deserves the truth about what happened.