February 28, 2007 7:26 AM
Prisoners filling migrant labor gap
That's the sound of the men, workin' on the onion gang. (Apologies to Sam Cooke).
Colorado prison inmates could be taking the place of migrant workers kept away by stricter immigration laws, reports Ann Imse.
State prison officials are negotiating for crews of 10 to 20 minimum- to low- medium-security inmates to do farm work near Pueblo.This may be the first time that inmates leave prison to work in private industry, Corrections Department spokeswoman Alison Morgan said. About 2,000 inmates work inside the prisons, including some in Buena Vista who make saddles for a private company, she said.
Prisoners would make the same 60 cents per day they get while working in the prison but the farmers are being asked to pay the state $9.60 per hour to cover transportation, guards and food.
Farmer Joe Pisciotta, of Avondale near Pueblo, hopes they'll be hoeing, transplanting and harvesting the onions, watermelons and pumpkins on his 700-acre farm from May 1 to Oct. 1.Pisciotta said he started looking for alternatives after his winter onion packers said they might not be back to Colorado - fearing harassment, even if they are legal.
Good idea? A way for prisoners to fill a need? Think they'll have trouble getting prisoners to do the work efficiently?
February 28, 2007
8:22 AM
Anonymous writes:
Farming is a business for profit. If your busniness plan for profit includes illegal labor for the obvious reasons, then your no different from a drug dealer for profit when it comes to breaking the law. Sell your farm if you can't make it. Join the new manufacturing jobs. Cough cough, fyi the Bushies labeled fast food jobs as manufacturing . Anything to make their admin look a little better.
February 28, 2007
8:33 AM
Anonymous writes:
I think using the inmates is a fair choice and yes I do believe they would work just as proficiently. There are plenty of homeless men and women I also think would fill the need Also.
February 28, 2007
9:01 AM
Anonymous writes:
I Think this is a great plan, but wait until the ACLU gets involved, then we'll see if we can actually do this.
February 28, 2007
9:18 AM
jay writes:
LOL....it is just economics my dear Watson. While I totally agree that we should be using our prison population for more useful purposes than smoking shwag and watching tv, a net wage of $10.20 an hour to fill the worker gap isn't the answer. For now, however, we're stuck with these type of ridiculous stop gap measures until we get a pro-economy solution to the illegal immigration problem.
February 28, 2007
9:46 AM
John D. writes:
Going from a higher paid, slave labor force to a lower paid slave labor force isn't the answer. Agriculture as a business isn't a stable industry, as long as a farmer is trying to compete against the large scale growing operations of multibillion dollar corporations across the globe
. The answer lies in legalizing the labor force. Give the prisoners and the immigrants time served and lets stop criminalizing everything. Then maybe other industries besides The Department of Defense and The Department of Corrections can have a shot at flourishing.
We can't continue building more prisons than farms.
February 28, 2007
10:32 AM
Anonymous writes:
jay,
You want a pro-economy solution?
How can we have that with socialists in charge?
Stop voting for socialists and start voting for a return to free market and then we can talk about "pro-economy" solutions.
February 28, 2007
10:34 AM
Ben writes:
Legalizing anyone who didn't queue up legally is a recipe for disaster at multiple levels.
Farmers have abused the immigration system since before and then after, the Great Depression. Now it is widespread throughout blue collar work. Let's be innovative and put some resources into mechanization.
Once the kinks are worked out, using inmates is smart. Pay the inmates more. They then can pay for other legal obligations like child support , victims fees etc.
February 28, 2007
10:45 AM
jay writes:
"You want a pro-economy solution?
How can we have that with socialists in charge?"
I had no idea the Socialist Party had any success in the last election. Enlilghten me as to which seats they won.
"Farmers have abused the immigration system since before and then after, the Great Depression. Now it is widespread throughout blue collar work. Let's be innovative and put some resources into mechanization."
Absolutely right. We should regulate our illegal workforce and increase our tax revenues immediately. Good point.
"Pay the inmates more. "
You don't think $10.20 an hour to pick onions is enough?
February 28, 2007
10:58 AM
shaggy writes:
"Pay the inmates more. "
You don't think $10.20 an hour to pick onions is enough?
Posted by jay on February 28, 2007 10:45 AM
Can you show me where they are going to pay thie inmate $10.20 an hour.
February 28, 2007
11:03 AM
jay writes:
Sure shaggy...from the story above:
Prisoners would make the same 60 cents per day they get while working in the prison but the farmers are being asked to pay the state $9.60 per hour to cover transportation, guards and food.
Total expense for labor per hour = $10.20
My guess is that doubles their labor costs....great plan.
February 28, 2007
11:07 AM
gr8fuldude writes:
Prisoners working in the fields...Well, I guess that explains why we never hear from Harry Palm anymore.
February 28, 2007
11:14 AM
shaggy writes:
Jay you are doing your typical Micheal Jackson back stepping you and your side kick JW have grown famous for.
Somone said to pay the inmates more and you came back and said
"You don't think $10.20 an hour to pick onions is enough?"
But I asked that Q because I knew how a LL would answere it.
You are being hypocritical
February 28, 2007
11:19 AM
Ben writes:
'You don't think $10.20 an hour to pick onions is enough?"
It should be obvious that this is the start number from the prison for negotiation purposes.
Inmate labor is used currently to manufacture other items.
Also this price will also be used to negotiate future subsidies to farmers to utilize inmate labor.
$10.20 is a negotiation price, not the final labor price farmers would pay. Most farmers are savvy on the farm subsidies end of the farm business.
The use of inmates is win win situation at multiple levels.
Include advances in farming innovations via mechanization. I believe produce prices could go down even further in the future.
February 28, 2007
11:19 AM
shaggy writes:
You take words and re:work them to fit your twisted little membrane know to most as a brain.
Not ever to mention that you could be wrong.
Now you`ll come back calling me names because I and everyone else knows you can`t defend what was said in context.
February 28, 2007
11:27 AM
jay writes:
LOL...so I answered your question and now you don't like the answer so it's back to insults? Shaggy, please try to just discuss the issues without the personal attacks okay? Gets old.
Ben...I don't see anything in that story suggesting that $10.20/hour is negotiable...do you?
"Include advances in farming innovations via mechanization. I believe produce prices could go down even further in the future."
What "advances" are you referring to? How far out are they?
February 28, 2007
11:45 AM
shaggy writes:
jay,
Your`e embarrassing yourself along with your LL`s.
Pay attention a little.
Try to not take words out of context.
February 28, 2007
11:49 AM
fiesty writes:
You know, I just can't feel sorry for farmers, when they were knowingly breaking the law with workers that were here illegal. Now they're upset?
As far as the prisoners go, why not? Are there any other people lining up for these jobs? If not, let the inmates earn some cash to support family.
February 28, 2007
12:12 PM
JW writes:
Shaggy, has it occoured to you that so far in this thread, you havent offered a SINGLE point or arguement that has anything to do with the subject?
All you have done is spout inane BS at Jay. Well, you did ask one stupid question, but other than that...its just a bunch of BS.
Yovue got no critical thinking skills. Youre ignorant about most things, but you dont KNOW youre ignorant, which means you think you know WTF you are talking about. You cant follow arguements in a logical way. You get all out of whack and go off on tangents.
Basically, debate with you people is useless.
Jay, did you listen to that interview? That thing scared me more than anything Ive heard in years. Wait till the very end when he talks about the what exactly the congress authorized Bush to do when they gave him authorization to go into Iraq. Its not limited to that at all...Hersh calls it "the single worst piece of legislation in our history". It authorized pre-emptive strikes ANYWHERE this idiot we have for a president feels there is a threat....
Bottom line, he doesnt have to ask about attacking Iran.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7618708
Its about thirty minuets.
February 28, 2007
12:19 PM
jay writes:
I haven't listened to it yet, but will. I agree that the authorization legislation is going to be a problem. While everyone agrees that withholding funding for troops already on the ground in Iraq isn't an option...I see the Iran scenario as the perfect testing ground for shutting off funding to the White House. If that's the only way to stop the WH from making another catastrophic mistake...so be it.
February 28, 2007
12:32 PM
JW writes:
Here is an article by the same guy, about the same subject...
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/060417fa_fact
February 28, 2007
12:35 PM
JW writes:
"A government consultant with close ties to the civilian leadership in the Pentagon said that Bush was “absolutely convinced that Iran is going to get the bomb” if it is not stopped. He said that the President believes that he must do “what no Democrat or Republican, if elected in the future, would have the courage to do,” and “that saving Iran is going to be his legacy.”
February 28, 2007
1:16 PM
Anonymous writes:
"ridiculous war on drugs"
Yeah it's pretty ridiculous alright. I can't understand why people don't want to pay for employees who are high.
Or why anyone wouldn't want their family broadsided by a stoned driver.
Or expect the surgeon to remember to take his instruments out of your abdomen instead of thinking about his next fix.
And who would pay the social benefits for all these disasters?
Pretty ridiculous indeed.
February 28, 2007
1:47 PM
David Hakala writes:
"Prisoners would make the same 60 cents per day they get while working in the prison but the farmers are being asked to pay the state $9.60 per hour" PER PRISONER!
This does not add up at all. A prison guard - remember, most of them work for private corporations - makes $7 to $10 per hour. Let's pay the guard $10/hour; assume 5 inmates per guard (10+ is more likely) at 60 cents "per day" each; 10 hours in the field; and four hours round trip for transportation. Heck, let's feed each of them a 99-cent meal from Burger King, too.
The State's gross (as in "disgusting") profit after guard and inmate labor expenses is about $235 for a five-inmate, one-guard crew.
And they say coyotes make money off human misery?
Transportation consists of converted school buses that would not be allowed on highways if they didn't have government immunity. Charge per mile driven, and a lot less than the IRS mileage allowance for business use of a vehicle.
February 28, 2007
1:57 PM
Anonymous writes:
01:16 PM I always love the stoned driver stories that always involve legal alcohol too. I was almost hit by a stoned driver once. Fortunately I was able to drive around him and half way home before he could hit me.
February 28, 2007
2:35 PM
Dirk Gently writes:
1:16, ask any cop on the street and they'll tell you they'd rather arrest a stoned driver than a drunk one any day. And let's go over those drunk driving-related death figures, shall we?
As for people who are high while driving/operating machinery/operating on people: OBVIOUSLY this should never be tolerated. They're not supposed to have been drinking, either. My point is that we're fillling up our prisons with people who are exactly as dangerous to society as your local liquor store owner. And we're spending billions to do this, including aid packages and military personnel to places like Columbia.
I'm not suggesting we stop being vigilant about drug abuse, I'm saying we should end the War on Drugs. Now.
February 28, 2007
3:22 PM
Bud KING writes:
1:16 - Come on, you have to admit that it is fairly typical for people to get drunk and assume they are Superman, Mel Gibson, Sly Stallone, etc.
Most of these same people, if smoking, would just think they were, well...stoned. Nobody smokes and gets aggressive. It would take WAY too much effort.
February 28, 2007
3:49 PM
shaggy writes:
JW,
Sry for the late off topic post but you addressed me and I was not available.
I was trying to show jay how he likes to change his words to fit his agenda.
But thank you for budding in.
February 28, 2007
4:00 PM
JW writes:
"I was trying to show jay how he likes to change his words to fit his agenda."
And I was telling you that he doesnt do it, you just lack critical thinking skills, and therefore can't even follow the logical path of the discussion.
In other words, you read what is there, but think it means something else entirely. Can't even understand plain english, let alone participate effectively in debate.
February 28, 2007
4:34 PM
Ben writes:
Cesar Chavez , a continuing hero of the left and the union movement, organized the United Farm Workers in large part to oppose the use of cheap illegal alien labor on farms. Chavez saw the cheap illegal alien labor as a direct threat to his desire to establish minium wages for farm workers and to institute benefit packages common in other industries. "Employers go to Mexico and have unlimited unrestricted use of illegal alien strike-breakers to break the strike". Cesar Chavez.
February 28, 2007
6:29 PM
shaggy writes:
You are the one who can`t follow what is going.
You are the one who can`t hold a inteligent blog.
Pot calling the kettle again.
What is new.
Pull your head out.
Get some air.
February 28, 2007
6:51 PM
maria gomez writes:
Inmates will still recieve their 60cents per.hr to work the fields. The prison will get the rest of the money to offset their cost of transportation, food,etc. It's $9.60.per hr. not $10.20. And it's not to support their families ,they're still doing time! So,if they use youth offenders ,gang members,etc.
that'll work, a great idea. This helps
solve the illegal immigration problem.
February 28, 2007
6:52 PM
JW writes:
Priceless.
March 1, 2007
8:23 AM
JS writes:
60 cents still makes slave labour slave labour! And the state of CO is in slave labour business, big time! And at $9.60, the state is making as hefty profit no matter what they say. Lets see these books get opened up for a public look-see......
March 1, 2007
8:30 AM
Anonymous writes:
JS,
Filied your taxes yet?
That's slave labor.
Inmate labor, even if there is no compensation to them, means paying the taxpayers for some of the expenses related the their mistakes and not mine.
Crack that whip!
March 1, 2007
8:56 AM
JW writes:
Fairtax!
March 1, 2007
12:25 PM
Anonymous writes:
You all will miss us when we are all gone and can`t clean your toilets or pick your veggies no more.
March 1, 2007
12:29 PM
Jaun Hulio Chaves Rodriguez Medez writes:
But we will al be back so don`t worry, save our jobs and schools and hospitals and everything else wew can destroy for us.
March 1, 2007
12:31 PM
Anonymous writes:
As if our school, healthcare and social services systems could be fixed by getting rid of illegal immigrants. Fart in a hurricane.
March 1, 2007
4:29 PM
Anonymous writes:
12:31 It's a start, it's fair and we should have some semblance of order. U.S. standard of living would go up if we address the illegal alien problem, especially in certain areas that have been overrun. This is an innovative idea, and more will follow in the war against illegal immigration and it's enablers.
March 1, 2007
4:48 PM
Anonymous writes:
sure, as long as we have a solution that regulate our illegal labor force instead of getting rid of it. if companies have to deal with replacing a portion of an inexpensive labor force real wages will go down, not up and lead to poorer quality of life, not better
March 1, 2007
5:10 PM
Ben writes:
4:48 Yea right. You must think people blogging would buy that. The USA has gotten rid of the illegal workforces twice in recent history. In the Depression and again in the 50's when Truman/Eisenhauer sent 1.3 million Mexicans back to Mexico.
We have a solutions and immigration systems in place now. These systems work if people follow the law. We don't need third world people with 5th grade educations in this country. We are saturated to the point of civil discontent.
Illegals make up approximately 4.2 percent of the work force. They are insignificant. Unemployment typically runs higher than that always.
Big business has 2 slave levels. Ilegals and the American public that has to subsidize them.
March 1, 2007
5:36 PM
Anonymous writes:
why would you get rid of that workforce instead of regulating it? from an economic standpoint it makes more sense to retain the portion of that population that is good for business. do you have another reason for wanting them out of the country?
March 2, 2007
10:17 AM
jay writes:
"do you have another reason for wanting them out of the country?"
And there's the rub...right Ben?