The Crossing: Chapter 32
On Dec. 14, 1961, a Union Pacific train headed from Chicago to Denver struck a school bus at a railroad crossing five miles outside Greeley, killing 20 children. It was the worst highway accident in Colorado history.
In Chapter 32 of The Crossing, Kevin Vaughan writes about how time has affected the perspective of survivors and parents of those killed in the crash.
Time. It creeps by slowly in sad times and thunders past in happy ones. Sometimes, it stands as still as the granite monuments in a cemetery, as the face of a cherished child captured in a third-grade photograph.Forty-five years have passed since a powerful locomotive ripped through the Auburn community.
For some people, it might as well have been 100 years ago, for all the impact it had on their lives. For others, the crash is as close as yesterday.
Kevin Vaughan will be online talking about The Crossing at 11 a.m. E-mail questions/comments in advance and join the chat here at 11.
Being in the transportaion business for over 30 years and school bus for a good part of that this story has had me absolutely riveted to it. I have done bus accident research over the years, and it amazes me how they tried to reconstruct this very, very tragic accident in the year 1961. The pictures, the people involved, I only would like to say God Bless all who were involved and continue to be till today. I live in New England and have been to Colorado a few times, my daughter has spent college time there. I never knew.
Thank you to the people who put this terrible happening together, anything that can help in safe school transportation is a plus. Again, I can not say enough my profound sympathies to all involved. Accidents are what they are, accidents.
Oops sorry I didin't put my name on my message to Carrie and Tim, must be too tired. Linda
Posted by Linda (Close) on February 28, 2007 08:15 PMCarrie
What you are looking at is the website, even after the story is over this will be on here. To get to this page "bookmark" it, at the top of your screen there is the word bookmark, click on that and then click on bookmark, the page will be added to the list and then when ever you want to come to this page all you have to do is open a internet exployer window and click on bookmark then on the list you will find the words rocky mountain news web extra click on that and it will bring you right to this page.
Tim
I am so happy that the money is adding up and almost there. Keep us all posted to when you need help even if its just to help with the foundation. Hopefully it won't take 6 months to get the memorial up but even if it does I know there will be alot of folks there to see the unveiling. I can hardly wait for this to happen its been long over do.
Tim:
Yipeee!!!!!!!!!
Let me know if you need a contractor for the foundation. I may be able to wrangle a donation.
Thank you so much for your dedication to this project through all of your own family concerns.
Mary, I'm glad to see you back. I wish I'd been able to meet you at the Greely forum.
Posted by Tony Priborsky on February 28, 2007 03:40 PMI know almost nothing about computers and other technical stuff.
Tim, you say "this website will be preserved". What exactly is the website. Once the story is over there will be no more Crossing.
How will I find it??
So please tell this grandma how to keep up with all forth comming info.
Posted by carrie on February 28, 2007 02:30 PMHello Everyone,
Thanks so much for all the support with the memorial fund it’s going incredibly well.
We’re so close to the goal. The night of the forum at the UCC, and the donations that came in from my Mothers Passing, have given the fund a huge boost. Not to mention the hoards of donations coming in at the bank.
Thank you all!
It’s looks like a few hundred more dollars and I can order the stone.
It will take at least six months after ordering to get it in. It’s a special order cut and incredibly heavy.
Most likely it will be shipped all by it’s self on a tractor trailer from a quarry somewhere in the South East.
Then a fair amount of time to inscribe it, here in Greeley.
Pending donations, I hope to have the footer poured, as soon as the weather starts to warm up, so it will be ready and waiting for the monument.
As far as a date for a dedication of some kind, I really hate to guess at this time, however I would like to do it in warm weather, Perhaps this fall. (September?) it all depends on how soon the stone gets here,
barring any delays, that seem to be inevitable with these kinds of things.
I will be asking the Rocky Mountain News and the Greeley Tribune to run a announcement before the dedication.
My understanding is This web site will be preserved, and hopefully notice will be given here as well.
Peggy Ford of The Greeley museums has offered to help organize the dedication.
Kevin Vaughn (Rocky Mountain News) has agreed to help author the inscription.
Once again Thank you to all that have been helping, This could not have happened without you!
Tim Geisick
Tim@lefthandcorner.com
Gift,
Have you ever driven a school bus? Buses have not changed a whole lot since 1961, example, fogged windows, etc. If Duane got closer to the tracks to see he would have been in another predicament which I see bus drivers risking all the time and that is being too close to the track. If he would have gotten out of the bus to look, by the time he got back in the train would have gained that much more distance. We have two tracks, one in the tiny town of Dailey that hits the tracks like the one Duane had. It is frightning to cross with a bus. The other is one that is west of Fleming that goes through an area obscured by hills on both sides. We rely on the train whistle because seeing is impossible. If it is muddy, that is even a greater risk. There really isn't any other way to go to pick up these kids and twice a day a bus driver must negotiate these areas. Gift, you have a lot of nerve to judge, unless you have experienced what Duane saw, who are you to say.
I wondered where you had gone to Mr. Gift......
Maybe some day you will be given all the facts as to what happened. As for now...you have some points but you have missed the big picture . But that's o'kay......you may still end up a happier person with a better outlook on life. Just remember it's not always what you do but who you really are that people remember . All we really hope people learn is to Love those around you , care for others and be a good neighbor to others . Arguing and debating old facts aside.....it's how you live your life now that matters . You can't change what's past and you don't have all the facts because Kevein was not given any facts from the railroad. So let it be...
Learn the better lesson and enjoy the life you have and the people in it. The story should show you that faith , hope and love are for ever . Not a fleeting thing.
Others here might not agree with me , but even you deserve some care and understanding . Even if you do think you are perfect....
Grandma & Grandpa,
I just wanted to say that I am so glad this articles have turned out to be more of a positive thing than a negative. I have the most respect for our family and any others that this has affected! This has really showed me not to take anything for granite! I love you both so much, and would like to say thank you for always being there for me even when I mess up. You both have given me the best memories in life, like making apple pies and how grandpa use make me oatmeal in the mornings :-) growing up. You both are an inspiration to me.
Love,
Brittany Craven
At the Forum Kevin explained how he held a photo of the train tracks in his hand and asked an associate to tell him what he saw. The picture had the train in it, but you couldn't see it due to the fact that the utility poles lined up and presented the look of a fence. After studying the photo, the headlight was barely visible between "the slats of the fence" so to speak. Only the headlight was barely visible, not the engine nor the train. A "light in the crack".
Just thought I would bring that up as a point of interest. Have you ever ridden in the car with someone and they said "did you see that?" No I didn't see it but they did. We don't always see everything the same. We don't see the photo the same, or the train tracks the same. Who are we to "judge" what Duane saw, should have seen or didn't see. We were not in his seat , at that time, in that noise, in those circumstances.
Posted by on February 28, 2007 11:23 AM
Don't ever say NEVER, Gift. I hope your words do not ever come back to haunt you. You know exactly what you would do, and I'm impressed that you have all this foresight.. Were you in the Engine of that train on Dec. 14, 1961?? I'm assuming you were. You seem to know so much and exactly what happened that day.
I too can walk on water----BUT only when it is frozen.
lynda
I can not believe that there is hate going out towards Duane Harms. He was only slightly older than the kids he was transporting. He made a mistake, so let it go. Maybe he didn't make the mistake. I talked to him a few years later after the accident & he was a devastated individual who would have given anything to have it not have happened. He had to leave his home ground to run and hide from the vindictive people who have to place blame on someone. Any of us could have made the same mistake. Let's just let it go and support those that need it.
Posted by Larry from Ogallala on February 28, 2007 11:07 AMWe got Gift, we all know you're perfect and an accident could never happen to you because you can prevent everything. Thanks again for pointing this out, again!
Posted by on February 28, 2007 10:19 AMDear Susan bus driver,
The train was not "speeding".
"...IF an accident happened..." sounds fatalistic.
We must be PROACTIVE and make it NOT happen.
It really matters not if you can hear the train's horn. (Unless there was fog obsuring sight distance. If so, I would not cross unless police directed me.)
You can stop close enough to the track to see a train far down the track. There is time to close the door, place in gear and safely cross. If you stop too far back and cannot see, creep forward until you can see.
Aren't all school bus routes rehearsed before carrying students?
If not enough sight distance, such as a curve, I would refuse to cross until signals were installed. Likely, another route would be determined.
Jackie White lived in Fleming for quite awhile but would not talk about it. She now lives, I believe, in the Greeley area. She had a beautiful daughter who graduated from Fleming and is now married with at least one child. I'm not sure if she ever got over loosing her sisters, maybe even survivor's guilt.
Posted by Susan on February 28, 2007 08:34 AMWe are left wondering about the White family. Can anyone fill us in?
Posted by on February 28, 2007 06:41 AMToday's story said it all. Thanks, Kevin.
Posted by Dick Dedrick on February 28, 2007 06:09 AMHello Vicky Munson, I just want you to know that I have thought of your brothers over the years with fondness as I remember playing with them growing up. I remember the BB guns, I thought they were sent by an older brother that was in the Army. I wonder if they remember me. It was very nice to see you and say Hi at the forum in Greeley and I hope we can all see one another again someday. Take care of yourself, and please say hello to your brothers for me. Thank You
Posted by Smith Freeman on February 28, 2007 04:54 AMKevin:
I like many others have followed this series very closely. It is such a compelling piece of work that I use my spare time to go back on the website and re-read and view all chapters. I find myself asking everyone I come into contact with whether they are also following it, if not I urge them to do so. There are so many obvious and underlying thought provoking elements that anyone confused about what life is all about should study it. There have been many, many comments posted and to save space I will only emphasize that I wholeheartadley agree with all the positive, reflective, insightful and moving comments.
As soon as I realize a particular blog is negative I immediately move on to the next one.
The small connection I have to this story is that I was born and raised in a farming community (Haxtun) not more than 15 miles from where Duane Harms grew up. I rode a school bus every morning and never once felt anxiety about being on it. I remember many "cold" mornings with frosted windows and can close my eyes and hear the heater and sounds of carefree kids talking. I was also a controller for a local Feedyard in LaSalle from 1982 to 1994 and I recognize some of the names and faces but never knew anything about the accident. I did not know Duane personally as he is 20+ years older. I can without question relay that the community he grew up in was (is) compiled of the same type of wonderful, caring, struggling and sincere families that made (make) up the Auburn community.
Something struck me about 1/2 of the way thru the series. How fortunate are we that we live in the United States of America and specifically, how fortunate are the people who get to grow up in communities such as this. Here we have a story about a tragic event that happened more the 45 years ago. This story still has the power to emotionally cause us to reflect about what life is truly all about.
Today we are flooded with reports about terrorist bombings that kill 100s of people in one event. The majority of these victims are also innocent people who may be out shopping for food to make their families life a little better that day. They all have a similar story to tell but it will never be told, not now nor 45 years from now. Your comment at the Greeley Forum about 1 death being a tragedy and that a 1,000,000 deaths is a statistic is so true.
Another observation that struck me at the Forum is the realization that as we read the morning paper and bury ourselves in the life stories you are presenting, the actual families that have direct ties to this event are living or re-living the story right along with us. That is awesome journalism.
Thanks for this History
Don Ham
Ft Collins, CO
I was married in 1961 and I am so sorry to confess that I do not remember this story at all. I feel so guilty that something so tragic and something of this magnitude did not stay with me.
Kevin, there is nothing you could have done to have improved on this story. It is by far one of the best pieces of historical journalism I have ever read. Thank you so much for all your hard work and for sharing it with us in the format that you did.
Families, I realize that without your help, this could not have been as successful as this has been. I want to thank each and every one of you who shared your heart aches and sorrows and yes even your joys and triumphs. You will never realize the extent and scope that your sharing has reached. You will never realize the amount of encouragement and uplifting that your words have accomplished. Thank you from the depths of my heart to all of you.
Tim, I trust you will find a way to keep us all updated about your progress on the memorial. I don't take the paper so I will have to rely on the RMN web site for my info. Thank you for doing this.
Posted by Carolyn on February 27, 2007 07:44 PMI am a school bus driver in Fleming (the town Duane grew up in). I had never heard of the accident until Duane's cousin, who hadn't even been born yet, told me about it. I actually know some of the "kids" who survived the accident. One I've known for years and didn't even know he had been in this crash. Another, who wasn't interviewed, actually lived in the Fleming area for years but she had a more difficult time with it and never would discuss it. But..... as a bus driver I believe Duane stopped back the distance that he stated and looked. The "speeding" train probably gained distance much faster than starting a stick shift bus up. The horn may or may not have sounded in time for Duane to hear. I know as a driver I worry on a daily basis for the safety of my students but if an accident happened I would be blamed and I would live with the pain for the rest of my life.
Posted by Susan on February 27, 2007 05:31 PMalmost over !!! woo hoo
Posted by death king on February 27, 2007 12:09 PMI have so enjoyed & learned from these articles & I thank the families that have opened up the window of their lives & shared all this information with us, in the stories & on this blog. All the family members who write here are so special -thank you for taking the time for us!
When the series 1st started, I was like....33 chapters? What are they thinking to run it for so long?! But once I started reading, I was hooked & from then on, I could not stop reading. I was young then & in Denver & do not recall ever hearing about it so it is all new to me!
I am sad to see that the series is ending now - where did the time go? Kevin, you are a wonderful writer & you deserve many arwards for this series! Mary, Tim, Alice, Smith & those names that I have forgotten, thanks so much for sharing with us on this blog! I hope updates continue for a long time after this! My heart goes out to all involved, from Mr Harms, the families that lost members that day, the survivors, and to all the family members! Thanks for all you have shared! May God bless all of you!
Tim,
After adding the donations from the Forum, how close are you and the Fund to achieving the $6500 needed for the memorial?
Will there be a way for us to find out info about this after the next few chapters are shared?
Thanks again for stepping up and taking charge to get this memorial built. Please know that in these hard times in the loss of your Mother, we are holding you and your family in our thoughts and prayers.
Kevin,
I believe you said that the Denver Forum is to be held on March 7. Has a site and time been confirmed yet that you can tell us about? Have decisions been made in regards to putting this series on a DVD for us to purchase? Will there be a website or continuing blog for info after the series chapters end? Thanks for any answers that you can give.
Tim Geisick,
How will you let everybody know when the memorial is going to be unveiled? I would like to be there.
Thank you.
Posted by on February 27, 2007 08:51 AMKevin Vaughn, I have to tell you that you have done a very good thing. The children that went to heaven that day in 1961 deserved to be remembered and their lives celebrated. I have even learned more about my sister Melody, such as the dream my mother had, a while after the accident, where she told Mom not to cry because she was happy where she was at. And my mother did not cry anymore after that. I know that my sister, Joy, really has missed her sister and friend. Now I appreciate my family more and try to make every day a little more special. I have to say that my mother did a great job raising her children. To me this is an especially great feat as her own mother died when my mother was just a little girl, so she did not have that example to follow. Reading these posts I am encouraged to read about people that have resolved not to take life and their loved ones for granted, and I want to say Thank You to everyone who has put us in their prayers and thoughts. I was very happy to meet some people at the Forum in Greeley, some I had not seen since 1961. Mary Brantner, I was hoping to meet you as well as Timothy Geisick. So I will say Hi to all of you now, and hope I will meet you someday. I am definitely planning to be at the Memorial unveiling. Thanks to Kevin Vaughn and the RMN a lot of people are appreciating their loved ones more today, as we realize we really only have today. Yesterday is gone and we never really know if tomorrow will come. Sincerely, Smith Freeman freeman2_6@yahoo.com
Posted by Smith Freeman on February 27, 2007 08:26 AMMary,
So good to read your comment this morning........of course I have to agree with you about your mom. She is probably one of the most Christian women I know and she does lead the life!! It's been years since I have seen you or talked to you, but it sounds to me like the apple didn't fall to far from the tree!! You too are very brave and considerate and have added so much to this series. God Bless you all and I will continue to keep you all in my prayers.
Because of this series & the comments you have contributed I can't help but think that you have helped many, many people rethink their lives, hug their children, reconcile with their estranged, be nice to their neighbors, maybe even get to know them, smile more and just plain enjoy what they have. Thank you Mary and the whole Brantner family for sharing such a personal part of your lives. I would hope that in this process, you too have felt a healing & the very presence of God in your life.
Hope you have a good day.
Buddy
Posted by on February 27, 2007 07:31 AMI have a hodge-podge of comments to make.
First: Words are not adequate to express the profound impact this series has had, and the repercussions, even around the world.
I have found myself drawn into the
story, to the extent of even getting up in the middle of the night to see if it
has been posted on the computer yet.
And sometimes when I am working
the graveyard shift, I can't wait until
I get home to get on the internet, so
I actually buy The Rocky Mountain
News from the machine outside the
company front doors. (IMAGINE THAT!)
I made great sacrifice to attend the
forum, and I am so glad that I did.
I sat next to a man who had come
from Fort Collins to attend.
Kevin, If you ever decide to give up
the newspaper biz, you would make
a wonderful counselor! You are
compassionate, you know how
to really listen and hear what is being said and what is NOT being
said. Also, you know how to establish a non-judgemental therapeutic relationship.
And you know how to get your ego out of the way. I have tremendous respect for you, your vision, and the
way that you accomplished it.
Kevin, very few people know why they have come to this earth. I think you may have a glimpse of what your purpose was meant to be.
Personally, I think that you could NOT, not write the story, once the
burden was on your mind and heart.
And what a true priveledge it was for
everyone else involved to rise to the
standard that you have set! (And they have done so admirably!)
I will have sincere regrets when this
series is over.
I had opportunity to
meet about 4 of the families, in one
way or another, when I owned a small barbershop in La Salle, in the 70's & 80's)
I knew smatterings of the story, but now I know more of "The Rest of the Story."
My computer is too old & slow, so when the series is over, I intend a
marathon at the Greeley Public Library to view the slide-shows & the video's
And you can be sure, I will join the
throng of people honored to pay our
respects at the Memorial Dedication.
Today's story (as of many) had a tremendous impact on me. I love
to hear of a troubled youth who (due to the intervention of a caring adult)
takes the opportunity to turn their life around.
I wish I knew of Carolyn's relationship with her father and surviving brother.
Well, I have monopolized enough
space for now.
Thank you all Rocy Mtn. News, and also the people who have posted here.
Mary,
It's nice to hear from you again. You say you wish you were half the woman your mom is, but just from reading your blogs, it seems you already are. The thing is you just don't realize it. The strength that you say she has, you give back to her everyday. As far as caring for those that sometimes don't deserve it or want it, you have been kind to all that have written in, even if they didn't deserve it. When you disagreed you did it with respect.
Sometimes we don't realize "we are our mother's daughters" until someone else points it out to us. Take all the time to take care of each other, share all of your memories over and over and just be together. Know that you all are in our thoughts and prayers. Hope the days get a little easier.................
Buddy........
I have been spending a lot of time with Mom . Yes , it's been very hard on all of us. But we keep remembering the good times and all the things we did together . I miss her alot and the little things sneak up on me and I cry . But I know she is better off and in no pain anymore. I had 45 great years with my sister . Now it's Kathy , Mark , Johnny and Daddy's turn to have her with them .
I'm still checking in here every day . I am the only one left here in Greeley to take care of Mom . We are very close . And my Mom is the strongest , sweetest person to be around . She has a true beauty from inside . She has shown me how to love and care for others around me . Even those that try even the kindest person on the planet . She says to love the most unkind , unfriendly people is the greatest thing we can do . God loves everyone , even those who won't or can't show love themselves . If I can just be half the woman my Mom is I'll be happy .
I have kind of put myself in a protective shell the last week . It's kind of my way to deal with and remember my sister . But I am ready to get on with things . My sister went on to her " next big adventure " . And I need to continue my adventure here . Thanks for all the prayers . They do help.
And to all Sue's old friends , Thanks for all the stories I've heard the last week .
To Mary,
I have missed you these past few days & your comments. Just want you to know that you & your family are in my prayers, I am sure it is a very hard time for you, losing your last remaining sister.
I hope to hear some more of your comments soon.
Buddy
Posted by on February 26, 2007 08:39 PMI would just like to say I have enjoyed reading this beautiful, sad, inspiring story with anticipation of the next days edition. Thank you for sharing this story, with all my prayers and thoughts going out to each and every person who participated in this story.
MARY from PUEBLO
Posted by MARY SANCHEZ on February 26, 2007 08:34 PMTim
Did you see there is now a space on the side of each story that tells about the memorial? This is great, I met some people from Denver on Sunday that came into the store I work at wanting to know where Auburn was. They didn't know about this discussion board or the memorial. I hope this will help with getting the funds raised faster. Let me know if there is anything that I can do to help. I will be glad to go out and help dig or what ever it takes.
To anyone who would like to donate to help place a stone marker at the accident site
donations can be made to the....
The Auburn Bus Memolial Fund
C/O Compass Bank
3501 West 12th St.
Greeley Colorado
80620
Or by contacting
Timothy Geisick
4125 Saltgrass Lane
Evans Colorado
80620
(970) 371-9047
tim@lefthandcorner.com
Is it possible to add the memorial fund info to the actual newsprint? My mom doesn't have internet access, but does get the paper, but hasn't seen anything mentioned in it about the fund. Thanks
Posted by on February 26, 2007 03:49 PMI have read every chapter with anticipation in hopes that my mothers family would come forth and tell their story, and 30 chapters later I found myself reading about said family and spent quit a while crying for a cousin I never knew. Thank you Kathy Almer, Judy LaMaster and Roy Werner for giving me a peice of moms past that I heard so much about. Thank you Kevin Vaughn for the story that has made me hold my breath and draw me in like nothing ever has before. Thanks to all of you that have shared your story for us to read and help us understand what it was like for you and how things have turned out. God bless each and everyone who was there, who has shared, and who lost a loved one, my prayers are with you all always. Cathi Henry Clark (Myers)
Posted by Cathi Clark on February 26, 2007 02:14 AMThank you RMN for the video from the UCCC event. I wanted to go, but was called out of state. I was so glad when I saw on the readers comments that I could view this event. Thank you ! Thank You! you all have done such a wonderful job telling this story. To the families, I for one am glad that you have opened your hearts and shared these tragic events of your lives to help others know that Life goes on and Life is such a beautiful, wonderful gift from God. No one knows when our time will end on this earth. Today is ours, Live it like there is no tomorrow, because tomorrow may never come. God Bless you all. I pray that tomorrow is a good day for all.
Blessings llgh
This has been a remarkable series. I have been overwhelmed to read about the tragedies that continued in some of the families after all that they lost in this accident. The underlying strength that I am seeing is their faith in their religion and their love for their families and friends. I admire every one of these people for allowing us to read a very personal story. God Bless everyone and thank you for sharing your lives with us.
Posted by Karen W on February 25, 2007 02:40 PMIn December 1961 I was 9 years old and my father owned the farm that is directly east and adjacent to the Branter farm. My aunt and uncle lived there and farmed it. I have many wonderful memories of spending weekends and summer vacations there.
I remember well the intersection of the road and the RR crossing before the road was realigned. It was such a sharp angle that they intersected. Very difficult to see what was coming down the tracks looking east. It was such a combination of factors that led to the accident. A "Perfect Storm" led to it.
It truly was an accident. We all have moments of bad judgement, carelessness and forgetfullness. Unfortunately in this case a trajedy occurred.
My sympathies go out to all of the families and victims of this accident. And to Duane Harms I truly admire and respect the way you have lived your life.
Dear Karen,
If you want to learn more about your sister Linda just ask my sister Linda, the two of them were so much alike. Their love of horses and being in the fields with their dads. Both learned to drive a beet truck at a very young age. My sister Linda lives on the farm I grow up on and is across three fields from the home you grew on. I think you will enjoy getting to know her.
I was a year older then both of them and was in 4-H with them and we all played togather.
To the other girls it is always hard to live in the shadows of someone, but it sounds that you have grown to be wounderful adults.
Nancy
Hello to Nancy Alles Stroh! I was hoping you would show up and there you are. It is nice to see you standing straight and strong with a full life and much to be proud of. I'm from your St. Paul's Congregation confirmation class of 1964 - I'm in the upper left corner - right across from Rev. Wilhelm. I'm so glad to have the update on your life. Continued good luck and best wishes!
Gayle
I would like to thank Kevin V., Chris S. and Mark W. of the RMN for this remarkable story. I am reading the story to see how these folks have gotten through their grief over the years. My family also knows the tragedy of losing young family members. We lost my brother to AIDS in 1993 at age 31. Then just this past August 13, 2006, on my daughter's 3rd birthday, we lost my second cousins Cammy (age 16) & Kyle (age 15) in a single vehicle rollover accident on C-470 by falling asleep at the wheel, they attended Thunderidge High School. Yes, they were their parents only children,and I pray everyday that they muster the strength to get through each day.
So to read about people who know such tragedy is very touching and educational to see how people cope and move on the way THEY know how.
Here is a human nature note: Before the RR crossing accident the crossing wasn't "broken", if it isn't broke why fix it? So not until someone gets hurt do we humans realize "Oh maybe we should make it better so no one else gets hurt and move the RR crossing to a safer location."
Ooops, sorry. I mis-read the letter. Please ignore previous message.
Posted by Katie on February 23, 2007 02:19 PMI too would like to see the video from the Wednesday night gathering. The link referenced in the letter below links to the video for that particular chapter, not to the Greeley gathering.
Posted by Katie on February 23, 2007 02:15 PMI read todays' article and am impressed by the faith these families show.
I also have to say that I laughed when reading a list of the food the families would make - my friend Felicia Alles makes those krautburgers and I just have to say, Thanks! They are the best things, ever!
Posted by Caryl in Sacramento on February 23, 2007 12:16 PMTo all of the Crossing Families,
Although I didn't meet you personally on Wed. night, it was nice to see so many of you at the forum. Thank you for going and bringing all of your loved ones.
It was nice to see the real faces behind the photos and stories.
Thanks for sharing your lives.
Alice,
Thanks for your courage and bravery to go before everyone on the stage and share your experience with us. You are more than "Just a Banker".
Kevin and Team,
Thank you for "The Crossing Series". It is a part of history that needed to be told, and you and your team have done an excellent job doing that. All of your hard work and time have paid off. Know that you have changed lives, not just for the survivors and their families but for the readers also.
It is so true, your life can change in just a split second and the choices that you make in that second can be a major choice, not just for you but for everyone around you.
Robin,
If you jump to Chapter 27, you will find a link to the forum video in the "Related Links" box on the right side of the chapter text.
Bill
Posted by Bill on February 23, 2007 10:51 AMI wanted to watch the video from the UCCC event, but can not seem to find it. Can someone give me a link, or help me out? Thanks
Posted by Robin on February 23, 2007 10:23 AMSusan & Ramona,
Email me at Tabeagle1@msn.com
Kevin, thank you for Wednesday night. It has helped a lot.
Posted by Aleta on February 23, 2007 08:06 AMHi:
I hope this doesn't sound too jumbled, because I'm in between classes at school right now, and between that and work, freetime is almost nonexistent.
Anyway, I think this has been a thoughtful and powerful series, and all my love and prayers go out to the survivors and the families of those who lost their lives on 12/14/61.
This post is in regards to Chapter 25 (Moving On). Somehow, I can identify more with Randy Geisick and Alan and Debbie Stromberger than I can with the other survivors. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't negate what anyone else went through, or the compassion or sympathy we feel. No one reaction is better than the other, they're just different. Tragedy affects everyone differently.
I too was involved in a serious accident (though nowhere near the scope or severity of the one on 12/14/61), and did not suffer any long-term effects. On New Years Eve 1991, I was taking a friend to a party when my car slid off of an icy exit ramp and slammed into a ditch at 35 miles an hour. I struck the steering wheel and suffered severe facial injuries. I underwent several hours of reconstructive surgery and made a full recovery.
I don't remember any details of the crash, which may be why I wasn't shaken up by it. The last thing I remember about that night was driving out of Greeley (which was where I lived at the time, coincidentally). If I had any emotions tied to my accident, it was anger because I received a ticket for careless driving.
15 years later, the only things I have left from my accident are some scars and a habit of taking extra precautions when driving during the winter.
Like I said earlier, tragedy affects us all differently, and no reactions are alike. When I look back on my experience, which isn't that often, I feel happy to be alive. And I think that can be said of most everyone who experienced the tragedy of 12/14/61.
Posted by Deb Wood on February 22, 2007 02:10 PMTraci Meyers!!
My brain wasn't working this morning, so I had to get out the old Arlington book to put a face with a name. Lots of memories in those old books. Are you still in the Greeley area?
Ramona
Posted by Ramona on February 22, 2007 01:42 PMI wish to thank the RMN Staff, the Auburn Families and the Greeley Museums for the wonderful presentation last night. My daughter and I drove up from Westminster. We drove to the crash site, then to Kersey, then through the bus route that I took that very morning of the accident. We then attended the presentation. It was a very healing and profound event for both of us.
Afterwards I had a chance to talk to Mr. Blue. I went to Arlington for a year or so way back then, and he would come into our class and teach us Science. When I saw the videos of The Crossing, I thought I recognized him, but was not sure until last night.
Again, thank you.
I would like to Thank everyone who has sent donations, or droped them in the buckets last night.
It was wonderful to get a chance to meet many of you, and all the nice words of suport.
It was a super night for the fund, we still have a ways to go to meet the goal.
However it's going great! Thank you all.
Special Thanks to Kevin Vaughn for talking about the fund, it made a huge difference.
To anyone else who would like to donate to help place a stone marker at the accident site
donations can be made to the....
The Auburn Bus Memolial Fund
C/O Compass Bank
3501 West 12th St.
Greeley Colorado
80620
Or by contacting
Timothy Geisick
4125 Saltgrass Lane
Evans Colorado
80620
(970) 371-9047
tim@lefthandcorner.com
I have been following this story from the beginning. I lost my son at 14 so I know the pain these families feel at the loss of a child. I have a poem my daughter wrote in memory of her brother that I would like to share with the families
Candlelight
We light a candle for you today,
So that your death may light our way.
You left your life behind too soon,
Now your light shines by the moon.
A star, an angel you were meant to be,
No longer able to stay with me.
God called you back but you left so much,
You’ll never know the lives you’ve touched.
A child’s life gone by too fast,
The memories left are built to last.
So as the candle’s light shines through,
We’ll remember those we once knew.
God bless to all of you!
I have been following this story from the beginning. I lost my son at 14 so I know the pain these families feel at the loss of a child. I have a poem my daughter wrote in memory of her brother that I would like to share with the families
Candlelight
We light a candle for you today,
So that your death may light our way.
You left your life behind too soon,
Now your light shines by the moon.
A star, an angel you were meant to be,
No longer able to stay with me.
God called you back but you left so much,
You’ll never know the lives you’ve touched.
A child’s life gone by too fast,
The memories left are built to last.
So as the candle’s light shines through,
We’ll remember those we once knew.
God bless to all of you!
Mr. Dedrick:
Thanks for your kind words about my father. I'll make sure that he gets to read what you've written here.
As I posted early in this series, Dad didn't speak much of what we called, "The Delta school bus accident" until fairly recently. He was somewhat hesitant to contribute to this series when he was first contacted but embraced it soon thereafter. I'm proud of both his leadership and compassion at the time of the accident -- and now.
I haven't spoken with him since the public event in Greeley held last night but I'm sure that it was an important and emotional experience for him. He was the "head teacher", or assistant principal, at Delta/Arlington in 1961 and was the lead administrator of Delta. Also, he was the first principal of East Memorial and remembers all of the students and staff from those days.
Thanks again.
To "Just Wondering":
My father, Keith Blue, was raised in Ft. Morgan and west Denver.
Ken Blue
jm (aka) Quit blaming...
If anything should "Quit", it should be your dreary whining.
Posted by Flynn on February 22, 2007 09:58 AMDoesn't the person on Feb 21st @ 05:56 pm know how to leave the site if they are not interested? If they will just contact me I will give them free lessons on computer ops - including how to do a shut down. For the rest of us, it has been a most interesting experience seeing what all has transpired since 14 Dec 1961. Although I have not made contact with many of my old friends in the area for a long time, my thoughts and prayers are still with you.
Posted by Larry from Ogallala on February 22, 2007 09:07 AMAgain we need to thank Cheryl for sharing her story today. It gives us a lesson that is profound and needs constantly to be repeated. It can seem trite when you write it or say it. It is the lesson of the little engine that could. If you think you can, you can. And it is also a lesson for today's society. I got to stay with my father and mother for a while after I had left the "nest." It was special to learn to know them in a different light that way. I bet Cheryl saw some of that watching her parents interact with their parents, as they lived so close.
And as for the person who is afraid to sign a name but who keeps belittling the series, I am sorry for your haughtiness.
I taught journalism for a while in high school. This series serves an important purpose fo newspapers: fostering a sense of community.
I can remember the feeling of knowing I would be embarrassed at school after my mother talked to the lady who did the LaSalle Leader when I grew up in that small town. I would be greeted with a giggle: "Oh I hear you enjoyed a delicious dinner of roast beef after church services this weekend when your aunt and uncle and cousins visited."
It didn't seem important enough to put in a paper. But I look back and remember a time when I knew my parents knew people on a personal level throughout the town, not just our "next-door" neighbors but also our neighbors who lived across the railroad tracks that often gave us our excuse for being late to school.
We moan a lot about the loss of tha sense of community, and I have to admit that now I know little about the people who live on my street. It's sad, I think.
The series has reported on a time when neighbors knew neighbors and helped neighbors. And even those readers who do not have any connections to the people directly affected by this tragedy are probably enjoying feeling a sense of community simply by reading the series. Thanks again RMN for doing it.
Posted by Diana on February 22, 2007 08:42 AMI attended the presentation in Greeley by Kevin Vaughn and the rest of the talented staff.
The description of the magnitude of the project was greater than I had anticipated.
More amazing is the level of participation by the families. This is a story whose time it was to be told, and the compassion from the Rocky Mountain News team is what made it possible. It takes alot of courage to bare your soul to a stranger. The bottom line is that all of the family members trusted them. That says alot.
It doesn't hurt that they are a talented bunch.
Thanks Kevin and Team for the insight into what it takes to do a project like this.
Thanks to the familes for being there.
Thanks to Tim Geisick.
I wish I'd had the chance to meet more of you.
Posted by Tony P on February 22, 2007 08:22 AMRamona,
I had a crush on Johnna.
John Evans Junior High School
1965-1967
LC
Yes, Johnna is my older sister
Posted by Ramona on February 22, 2007 04:03 AMMr. Flynn,
You should take pause with your posts as they are completely absurd. None of your posts have gone over our heads....they just don't make sense.
Can't imagine your take on Columbine.
Posted by jm on February 21, 2007 09:32 PMTo all the families,
I wish I could be there tonight to meet all the dear folks who have shared their difficult story with us. I am in Denver, and I am sure the place will be over flowing with folks from the Greeley area.
Mary, I always enjoy your messages. I also came from a large family, seven children. We too, have lots and lots of memories.
I will continue to keep all of you in my prayers, and especially Sue, May she Rest in Peace!
Annette
Posted by Annette Williams on February 21, 2007 08:04 PMto the post only known as feb 21st 5:56 pm. you are quite the person however when you post you forget to sign a name to your post. Try coward. To all the famlies who lost loved ones and who survived, you are in my thoughts and prayers as im sure this series is difficult. To the Craven family i think about you all each and every day
theresa-wasilla alaska
Posted by theresa on February 21, 2007 08:03 PMquestion to Keith Blue... were you raised in the Ovid Sedgwick area??
Posted by just wondering? on February 21, 2007 07:03 PMOK Quit, I see there is no use trying to reason with you. My points obviously went right over your head. Go back to your rantings about Mr. Gift. But I doubt anyone's paying attention to you.
And no, I'm not Mr. Gift. I'm from Littleton, close to Columbine HS, another painful Colorado tragedy.
Posted by Flynn on February 21, 2007 06:47 PMI have been so touched and moved by each of the stories. Thank you for bringing these wonderful people/families & their journeys through life with all the hardships and their survival.
I have been planning all along to come to Greeley tonight, but things have not worked out and I am so disappointed.
Will you be having any meeting in the Denver area by any chance? I would love to meet you and some of the families. May God bless ALL those involved in the tragic accident.
Is this thing still active? How pathetic - some of the kids probably got over the stress and terror of the accident in a shorter timespan than this has has been around.
This is what you get when an editor/publisher's pet project is passed off as 'news'.
Anyone actually read the series? I know I was burned out at about episode 4..........
Posted by on February 21, 2007 05:56 PMRamona,
Are you related to Johnna Yingling? I went to school in Greeley with her.
Posted by LC on February 21, 2007 05:12 PMThese stories have introduced us to many heros. And they have refreshed my memory of a college hero, from back in 1956.
Keith Blue stood out among guys like me at CSCE (now UNC). That's why we elected him President of the Student Body. But after moving on from Greeley, I never really gave Keith another thought - until I saw his picture in the paper, in 1961.
He appeared to be in a state of near-collapse. He'd had a pretty rough day. It began at school, when he was informed of the bus-train accident. He grabbed a first aid kit, just in case they could use it, and headed for the crash scene. Later, he'd be asked to help identify several of his young students at the temporary morgue downtown.
It was good to see Keith on The Crossing video. If he were to dye his hair, he probably wouldnn't look much older. But there was such heartbteak in his voice.
In one of the stories, I read how Keith - along with his dad - had taken Duane Harms on a rock-hunting trip later that fall. What a decent thing to do.
It was also good to read a post from Keith's son, at this website. Sounded like he might be a chip off the old block.
Posted by Dick Dedrick on February 21, 2007 04:19 PMMy sympathies to you Bored King,
It seems that you have a heart of stone. Why would someone follow along a blog that they could care less about all this time? If truly you don't care, why spend the time? Other than that response, you don't deserve any other words. Especially on this day.
Then don't read it, "bored". Duh!
Posted by Robert Gift on February 21, 2007 02:09 PMThank god this stupid and self servicing sympathy blog is nearly over.
Posted by Bored KING on February 21, 2007 01:22 PMREST IN PEACE SUE
My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family. May God and all the memories that your family has of you help them through these difficult days. May God bless all of you.
Ramona, Mrs. Craven & Sue,
Just read your messages. I too went to Arlington Elementary with Sue and Ramona. I was Traci Meyers. I will be at the presentation tonight with my mother, Peggy.
Mrs. Craven
Guess I should have mentioned I live in Georgia now. I'd be at the forum tonight if I were there though!
Posted by Ramona on February 21, 2007 10:43 AMAleta.....
I will be at the museum night tonight . There will be several family members there . You can call or visit Mom anytime . She does stay busy with senor center , grange , and several clubs . For some one who is 83 she is very active . Still drives too .
I look forward to seeing old friends and neighbors tonight . I have scene many of you over the last few days and last night at the mortuary . Talking about growing up and all the things we did way back when has made it easier for me . It's the memories that sneak up on me that get me crying . Silly thoughts of something said or did or even an object can start me crying .We where very close. It was the two of us against all those brothers of ours . We played a lot of jokes on each other through the years . We had to keep our brothers on their toes.
Even though I knew the end was near with her , I never said goodbye to her . I did not want her to leave us yet . I wanted one more day ,week whatever I could get . I felt if I acted like everything was normal it would be . Denile is not always a good thing to have . We all thought we had more time with her . Bill is trying to be strong and handle this . The big tough marine.....but he hurts too . Please keep him in your prayers . He seems lost without her beside him . He took wonderful care of her these last 8 months . It was good to see how much he loved her . And I know she was given the best care possible . He never left her side.
Well it's time to go to be with family to carry out Sue's wishes . Thank you to all for the condolences and prayers .
Please spend time today with your families and friends . Give hugs , and have some laughs . Make good memories...........
Ramona
Sue will be at the forum tonight.
Mrs. Craven
I believe you had a daughter named Susan who was born after the bus accident. She and I went to Arlington together. My name was Ramona Yingling - please tell her I said hello.
Posted by Ramona on February 21, 2007 05:07 AMI don't know who Flynn is. I am in Denver.
It is stated that the bus was stopped 50 feet from the crossing.
This is within the prescribed 15 to 50 foot stopping distance from the nearest rail in which a vehicle is to stop at a railroad grade crossing.
But from that position the view up the straight track may have been obscured by the utility poles.
I resolve to honor the children and Mr. Harms by being more careful and promoting grade crossing safety.
If it were up to me, I would forgive Mr. Harms. He was not a criminal. He was a kind, caring, honorable, new father who has suffered more than I can ever fathom. He must forgive himself. Others have forgiven him -including a critic.
Mr. Flynn
From a scientific perspective, you discount the refraction of light in a moisture-laden atmosphere that morning. Are you Mr. Gift?
Mr. Flynn...omg...have you no decency to accept this story as an insight to living and dying? It's not about using an abacus, slide rule, calculator, computer, or massaging physics...finding fault and executing Mr. Harms?
I'll reiterate....if you don't understand...Mr. Harms was found innocent....I repeat, I..N..N..O..C..E..N..T..
not guilty...
without blame...
without fault...
without premeditation...
Which part of NOT Guilty don't you understand??? It's a very simple statement...without complication, without confliction...NOT GUILTY.
Get over it, deal with it, live beyond it. Your wasted energy to retry Mr. Harms is fruitless...NOT GUILTY!!!
After visiting with my parents John and Dorothy Pfleiderer about the bus accident and Delta school and also reading the Crossing and veiwing the comments, I wanted to thank the Rocky Mountain News, the Tribune and the Greeley Museum for the wonderful story and articles they have done on the Crossing. This is a big part of Weld County's history. I was in the 2nd grade at Delta, I will remember December 14th, for the rest of my life. I remember going to school, it seemed empty,only a hand full of children were there. Mrs. Gardner our Principal was crying, she explained to us what had happened to the bus and many of children had been hurt. The next thing I remember is walking home with my sister Patty. We listened to the radio to find out any information we could. I remember thinking about my friends on the bus and wondering if they were ok. The news came that several children had lost their lives. This was a very sad time our lives. I can't imagine the greif and sadness the families went through. Even today my heart goes out to all the families that lost children. Im looking forward to the Crossing Forum tomorrow night. It will be good to see everyone. Thanks again.
Posted by Suzy Pfleiderer Rosenquist on February 20, 2007 09:47 PMAfter visiting with my parents John and Dorothy Pfleiderer about the bus accident and Delta school and also reading the Crossing and veiwing the comments, I wanted to thank the Rocky Mountain News, the Tribune and the Greeley Museum for the wonderful story and articles they have done on the Crossing. This is a big part of Weld County's history. I was in the 2nd grade at Delta, I will remember December 14th, for the rest of my life. I remember going to school, it seemed empty,only a hand full of children were there. Mrs. Gardner our Principal was crying, she explained to us what had happened to the bus and many of children had been hurt. The next thing I remember is walking home with my sister Patty. We listened to the radio to find out any information we could. I remember thinking about my friends on the bus and wondering if they were ok. The news came that several children had lost their lives. This was a very sad time in my life. I can't imagine the greif and sadness the families went through. Even today my heart goes out to all the families that lost children. Im looking forward to the Crossing Forum tomorrow night. It will be good to see everyone. Thanks again.
Posted by Suzy Pfleiderer Rosenquist on February 20, 2007 09:44 PMI think that letter writer had his figures off a bit. 81 mph is 1.35 miles per minute or 118.8 feet per second. In 50 seconds, the train would travel 5940 feet or 1.125 miles.
Anyway, I think the writer's premise was flawed. It would take far less than 50 seconds for a bus driver to go through what the writer described and cross the tracks to safety. Probably more like 15 seconds. That's still well over a quarter mile of train travel.
Posted by on February 20, 2007 06:52 PMThis is part of a letter that was written to the DA's office on 12/19/1961. The entire letter can be found in Chapter 9 under documents-letters sent to the DA.
I've been wondering how far down the tracks the train would have been when Mr. Harms started across the tracks. The letter tells it like this:
"...let us take their figure of 81 miles per hour or 1.199 miles a minute, 105.333 feet a second. In 50 seconds the train traveled 5226.50 a fraction under a mile." "Let us say that the driver did stop at the crossing, opened the door, looked, closed the door, pulles the bus into low gear, released the brake and proceeded to cross the track. While he is doing this, the train at 81 miles per hour traveled traveled a fraction under a mile in 50 seconds. I doubt that the driver after coming to a stop could have driven the bus across the track in 50 seconds."
What I'd like to know, would the train have been visible to any vehicle at the crossing that day when it was a mile away?
Thank you for such touching and tasteful reporting. I am a new mom and cannot imagine anything more painful than the death of my son.
I support the idea for a memorial and will contribute gladly.
Posted by Pam in Sacramento, California on February 20, 2007 02:58 PMSo much to think about in these last two issues--how some can survive with little emotional trauma and some can't get past it.
And there is no connection to guilt--no one "earned" a better life or "deserved" a more sad life. We are all here to learn on this earth. And "time and chance happeneth to all"
I continue to thank all the people who allow us this peek into their lives so that we can learn a little from their lives.
Posted by Diana on February 20, 2007 02:16 PMMary
I will call your mother one day next week. If she want's to see me before then just let me know. I am free just about any day. I will be at the Civic Center tomorrow night. I'll see you if you are there.
Aleta Craven........
Mom was asking about you today at lunch . She would love to hear from you. She was wondering how you are and what you are up to. Please give her a call or stop by and see her .
Thank You Aleta and Linda. I understand now how my Dad remembered "2 or 3 children" that Verne lost - his boy Jerry, his neice and his nephew, Calvin and Ellen Craven.
This story is touching people's lives far and wide. I cannot explain how it is changing my life. I cannot explain why I spend hours every day on the computer reading and rereading the stories; looking at the pictures, hoping to find something I lost way back then.
Thank you again for sharing your lives with us.
Posted by Joyce on February 20, 2007 01:00 PMJoyce
Verne Baxter was my half brother and Jerry's father. He passed away in 1989. His wife Marie Ruby, is in Arizona near their daughter Carolyn.
Mr. Gift's comments are intelligent and well thought out. The comments are also part of the lesson to be learned as well. What a tragedy this would be if we all, including bus drivers, did not drive more carefully. When emotions get in the way it makes people lash out in personal vicious ways that are really shameful. So praise be to the Gift your comments are really a gift even if they make one fool drive better.
Posted by Gift fan club on February 20, 2007 11:55 AMJoyce
Vern was the father of Jerry Baxter 10 yrs old.
I wish to thank the creators of this series - it has chaged my life in a very profound way. My deepest gratitude goes out to the survivors who allowed interviews and shared their hearts with us.
I found the first part of The Crossing in the RMN purely by accident, and I have been captivated ever since.
When the accident happened, I was in the 8th grade. I too was on a school bus less than 10 miles away at the time. Because of the school consolidation, my younger sister and I boarded a bus from our home in Nusser's Trailer Court a few miles NW of Kersey. We then were bussed to the Kersey school where we boarded separate busses to our schools. My bus took me to the Gill school about 5 miles north of Kersy where the whole 8th grade attended - there were no railroad tracks to cross. My sister's bus took her to Gilcrest where the elementary school was held. Her bus crossed those very same tracks.
It is very odd that I don't remember the accident at all. I know my classmates would have talked about it because everyone knew of each other in the area, and I am sure there were friends and relatives of my classmates involved. My folks tell me now that they were worried sick that day because they didn't know for sure my sister and I were not involved until they came home from their jobs in Greeley. All they had was a radio report. My family had just moved to the area a little over a year before, and we were not farmers. My Dad worked for a beer company distributing beer. He worked with a man that lost 2 or 3 children in the wreck. He says they called the man Vern. He also said that Vern came to work the next day because he didn't know what else to do. I wonder if anyone knows anything more about who's father Vern was.
Joyce
Posted by Joyce on February 20, 2007 09:12 AMI don't know why so many people are taking so much space and time to complain to and about Mr. Gift. I don't really think that there is a Mr. Gift. If you will notice, he always talks about the same thing. He rarely has anything new to say. There are people out there that just want to play devil's advocate. He is doing a good job of that. He has made a lot of people mad and upset; yet all you have to do is skip over his messages. He doesn't have anything important to say. We all know that he would have prevented the accident. Too bad he wasn't there.
In case I am wrong about Mr. Gift and this is actually how he feels, then he is entitled to those feelings. If we all thought and felt the same way what a boring life this would be. Mr. Gift might be trying to get a few people to think about what actually happened and why it happened the way that it did. He probably feels it could have been avoided but it wasn't. It is over and there is nothing any of us can do.
As far as God is concerned: God does not plan horrendous acts like this to happen. God is ever loving and ever knowing. He certainly knew is was going to happen. He allowed it to happen but he did not plan it this way. We often wonder why God allows so many tragic events to occur. He gave us a free will. He will not step in and change that. If he did then we would be nothing more but puppets to Him. That is not what he wants. He wants our will to be in accordance with His; but it rarely is. We often get off track and cause our own misery.
May we all pray for God's will in our lives.
Posted by Kathy on February 20, 2007 07:27 AMTo Bob Brantner, you got 40 years because you took the witness stand for 2 days and bored the jury and the judge. The judge could of been playing golf. You did not entertain anyone. This is a sensationalistic society. How many billions of hours are spent watching TV in this country each day for the sole reason of entertainment. The show itself on top of the commercials. The media. Except for a few religious channels, every program is for entertainment. Bore someone for 15 seconds and they are gone. This is the mind set of this country even 13 years ago. The jurors are picked because they want to be entertained. Healthy people will say anything to stay off of jury duty and those are just the people you want, but they are screened out. Why question a juror about how they view this or how they feel about that? They are American taxpayers with no felony convictions. Nothing else needs to be. This is the core of the Constitution and now it is bent. Will jurors be selected by the TV programs they watch? Jurors need to be selected from all summoned citizens where the hat is passed and everyone pulls a number out of the hat. The ones with 1 through 12 are the jurors and the alternates have 13, 14, 15,...OJ,s attorneys did the entertaining for him better than the prosecution. JM
Posted by on February 20, 2007 03:14 AMMr. Quit,
I don't know why you include me in your diatribes against Mr. Gift. All I ever said was that Mr. Gift has a valid opinion. I don't totally agree with it, but it is valid, nevertheless.
FYI, to reiterate my position, I am GLAD Mr. Harms was aquitted. Although he was legally responsible, his mistake was "honest", not resulting from reckless behavior, and IMO he deserved to be found Not Guilty. Please note that "Not Guilty" is different from "innocent", which is the term you've used repeatedly.
You stated:
"Take into account the blaring directness of the morning sunrise, the opaque veil of the fog....."
Just a couple of points to keep the facts straight in everybody's mind:
The train was heading south of due west about 20 degrees. The morning sun was coming from about 23 degrees south of due east, since it was almost the winter solstice. That makes about a 43 degree angle between train and sun, meaning the sun was NOT behind the train. In fact, the bus was almost perfectly disecting the angle between sun and train.
Though it was apparently a bit misty, there was no "opaque fog", according to testimony. I will concede that it was not optimum visual conditions atmospherically for Mr. Harms, frosted windows and telephone poles aside. Perhaps the sun DID glare off of the mist somewhat. We'll never know, so I'll give Mr. Harms the benefit of the doubt on that one.
Again, I've never "blamed" anyone, but have felt the train crew could have blown the horn a lot more. Whether or not that could have made a difference...again, we'll never know.
"colonative(Q) What do you make of the nasty notes some have posted? Is there any way to prevent it?
Kevin_Vaughan(A) I don't make a whole lot of it. Everyone is entitled to his or her own feelings and opinion. I don't think we should prevent it -- discussion is good. Hearing other points of view, even ones that might drive us nuts, is good. I welcome it. I think you've seen that some of the negative notes have been drowned out by the overwhelming majority of positive ones. "
To Kevin Vaughan,
What an incredible piece of journalism you have created here. I went to college in Greeley, so this story really hits home - I know all of the places talked about. I find it telling that in the six years I lived in Greeley I never once heard about this accident. Does that say something about the transient nature of a college town, or does it speak more to how easily we forget and move on from even the worst tragedy? That is a very good question, and one of the reasons why the premise of this 33-part series is so poignant. I am also a journalist and I must say I hope you recieve a Pulitzer prize for this beautiful piece of work. I wish I could be at the forum at the UCCC in Greeley. I wonder if it will be filmed for this website? The Rocky Mountain News deserves huge props for financing and printing this story.
Posted by Ken Scar on February 19, 2007 10:36 PMSmith:
How refreshing to hear from you...I hope you continue.
You are among those that I refer to with the conflict of understanding God or the resentful hate in their lives within this tragedy that they seek to find fault in our destiny within God's intervention...
I do not choose to understand our lives, our fates. and destinies, as I have accidents that I can't explain, but there are others who are, preponderously, full of insight to weaknesses, faults, and guilt...to their exonerable benevolences that they are without guilt, blame, fault, sinfulness, or imperfection.
I believe, after the stories thus far, that most of you have accepted God's Will.
I can't understand or appreciate the events of that day because I wasn't involved as a victim or family....
But I do understand that it is foolhardy to place blame as there weren't any answers then or now...
Mr. Gift, Flynn, or Dick....as much as you profess to have changed that day....it wasn't your choice....then or now....you do not have control on destiny..,
Posted by quit pointing guilt, it was an accident on February 19, 2007 10:14 PMWhere were Mr. Gift, Mr. Flynn, and Dick on 9-11?
Posted by on February 19, 2007 09:55 PMIt is written, " I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate. " 1 Corinthians 1:19. God decided the events that day in 1961. He had them planned for a very long time. His Will would be done, and no man before or after has the power to change what God has set in motion. It is very encouraging to see how many people understand these basics about our Creator. Not everyone will understand. Pray for them. It is also written, " But avoid foolish controversies..." Titus 3:9. And also, " Do you see a man wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him." Proverbs 26:12. I am so proud of the many people that understand what God is doing here, helping and healing people that are hurting. Thank all of you that have expressed your hearts to us. May God Bless all of you and may we let these lessons improve all our futures in every way, especially with love and forgiveness. And, yes, may we all think a little more before we say or do anything. As my 3 year old says, " But we need to be wery, wery caresul!" Amen.
Posted by Smith Freeman on February 19, 2007 09:49 PMMr. Gift....and Mr. Flynn...
This is not a story about your foresight to have prevented this tragedy. This is not the platform and stage to appraise your life...as selfish as it is. You weren't there to save our children, so how dare you to suggest that you would have.
It's a story about my classmates, friends, and their families that dealt with these tragedies. How they grieved, fought to understand, find guilt, forgive, and survive with turmoil, or seek peace. It's about how their lives proceeded, changed, ended...with or without explanation....with or without an understanding of our God's love, or His abandonment or His Graciousness.
Oh my God...the funerals before Christmas...you have no idea how horrible it was....for everyone in the area....that Christmas had celebrations of Jesus, but questions of our beliefs in Him that their deaths were a celebration of His birth.
Christmas gifts....just imagine...some lives not to receive or appreciate them...children gone...
This is a story of living, life, hurt, pain, death, and memory...and ultimately, to counter the fate to be forgotten....to forget and bury the pain, agony, and heartbreak of the losses and tragedies of our days at that time.
I am gracious that this time in life has been brought to the forefront...
There are those among us who don't want to relive the memories, pain and anguish...but, yet, there are many of us who want and need answers....that we haven't had answers since then, from our families or friends or news stories of that time...that have been repressed for 45 years...
I know that Mary Brattner and her family have experienced the fate we all have on earth...living and dying...beyond what few of us know. Yet, I believe they find there are reasons to laugh, cherish and praise God...in spite of the pain, anguish, and challenges they have...Mary Brattner at 20 months old at the time of the loss of her brother and sister and then Johnny, has been the benefit to understand God's Will of being able to profess her family. Who could have more malice than the survivors in her family for the fate they have all had to live....I can't even imagine....
and for Mr. Gift to try and align his sympathies with them are selfish and sinful.
But, as you read the stories of the rest who have shared their lives here....they have experienced their own anguish, hate, blessings, love...and occasional peace....
They are as recognized in my appreciation for their lives and gratefulness to express their lives as they have evolved. Some have placed blame, some have not....some have accepted God's love, and others have not....some accept life as it is...others have not....
What I do not see in any of their lives is that they could not have prevented that fateful day and the loss of families and the pain that they would have lived with the rest of their lives....
Pain, agony, hurt, suffering, suicide, murder, mental institutions, hate in God...
Forgiveness, peace, opportunity, joyfulness, destiny, Faith in God...
May God envelope and capture all of the survivors, families, victims, and those of us who cherish the benevolence and gifts that God has placed on them.
For the sanctimonious, doubters, and exonerous...may God enlighten you to forgive, forget, and bring you to a life of benevolence and resolve that you can not control destiny and fate....and that you DO NOT control ordain life and death.
Posted by quit pointing guilt, it was an accident on February 19, 2007 09:31 PM
To quote you..."But I have never encountered a crossing where I could not see far enough down the track to be safe.
If sight was too limited, they would install signals or eliminate the crossing.
The school district would not allow a bus to cross such a crossing."
Mr. Gift...they did allow it as a crossing!!! It was there, it happened, and it was a major contributor to the accident! Realizing the crossing was a primary reason for the accident, they changed it shortly, thereafter.
Are you suggesting that since they allowed it, the school district is at fault? Not Mr. Harms?
May I suggest, that with some of the accidents that happen at railroad crossings, that there might be a brief or complete lapse to blow a horn, or not at all? That the train crew was abandoned in thought and greatly late and that thinking school buses had already gone, that there was no reason for concern? Or, that if this trip was new and unusual since it was late, they didn't know what to expect and when they might need to recognize that there are school buses and people starting to go to work and to blow their horn and couldn't anticipate a bus starting to cross the tracks?
According to you, absolutely not....there is not a bus driver, fireman, policeman, ambulance driver, or those you have ridden with, taught, or call peers...are absolute of imperfection.
I remember that day like today....not yesterday...I used to ride my bicycle in the vicinity, and occasionally across that same crossing, many mornings while earning spending money. I was up at 5am that morning on that horrific and shattering day, it was extremely cold, there were miniscule flakes of ice that you could breathe and feel, a penetrating haze from the morning coldness and the moisture from the So. Platte River. The sun was breaking dawn and you could see that the usual "clear day" morning images in the distances were either obscured that day, unrecognizable, or blurred because of the hazy fog that shrouded that early morning.
That crossing, as I hope you have learned, was very angulated and full of obstructions....the power lines...and I agree with the fleeting mention in today's story about Mr. Harms, that if you stopped short of the tracks within the 50 ft. barrier, the power poles created an obstruction. I will tell you that even closer to the rails, the view was still obscured. Take into account the blaring directness of the morning sunrise, the opaque veil of the fog, the camouflaged and obstructed vision because of the power lines, fogged windows, the noise of children and the defroster fans, the slowness of the bus, the maximum allowed speed of the train ...the testimony of Mr. Larsen, Mr. Bindel, and Mr. Harms...there was an acquittal, I believed it then, and I believe it now.
I'm sure many will identify with my comments that at that time of day when the sun is rising and you look into the glare, that there is no distinction, that all is dark gray, light gray, light brown, tans, dark brown, that color has no distinction...it is non-destinct, camouflaged, and that at the same time in the evening these are two of the highest incidences of accidents because of lack of definition and clarity. I see it today, everday, and accidents happen very frequently because of the light, or lack thereof, at the early and late blurred vision at that time of day.
It was not your event that day, it was not your fate, so, how dare you to to contemplate your sanctimony. Your hindsight is unforgiveable! You create an unforgiveable filth of platitudes.
IT WAS AN ACCIDENT THAT EVEN YOU COULD NOT HAVE PREVENTED!!!
I , among many, are tired of your perfect 20/20 hindsightedness...
How self-exploitive you take this opportunity...as before...to suggest that you would have allowed the tragedy to have been avoided....
May God forgive you for your jealous Pride that you weren't there to have salvaged that day with your perfections...that you absolute in destiny...as He is.
For many of us...that's you professing to be God....that you would have had control on the fate and destiny of that day....how deplorable, reprehinsible, and indignant...
Mr. Flynn..if you dare...whew...don't go there.
Posted by Mr. Gift....quit being so perfect... on February 19, 2007 08:44 PMThank you to everyone for the condolences . My sister will be greatly missed.
My Mom is having a hard time but we keep her surrounded by family. The babies do amazing things for her mood and well being . She as are the rest of us are very sad .But Sue is in a better place . And she was ready to go . God blessed us with her in our lives . And now she is free .
We are very thankful for all the care and love shown to us during this time. Thank you for all the prayers....and please keep remembering us in prayers .
I am absolutely sickened at how anyone, ya you GIFT, and all other inconsiderate trash, can use something so horrendous and monumental in our CO history, as an excuse to "publish" your idiotic comments. We all wish we could BLOCK you from this so we didn't have to waste our time with your bologna.
To those of you that were on the bus, related to someone on the bus, involved with the train, went to a school nearby or AT ALL effected by this unbelievable event . . . I wish you PEACE, STRENGTH and HARMONY that all deserve in this life we are given. I am so honored to be one of many true human beings that cherish the meaning behind such an awesome story.
Thank you to all for opening your lives to bring the awareness to us.
To you people that are responding to Mr. Gift's postings--Never argue with an idiot, as they will use their past experience and win.
Posted by Mel Hartung on February 19, 2007 02:54 PMAnd on the eighth day, God created Robert.
But although God had made Robert in His own image, Robert became a hurtful and obnoxious and pompous fool.
Therefore God said "I shall call him 'Gift.' For even as he is ignorant, he thinketh that he is My all-knowing gift to humanity. In truth, he knows not, and shall oft insert his feet into his mouth and then blovate senselessly around them. Verily, he will pain the rear of all who come to know him. Blessed will be those who suffer his drivel yet whacketh him not with sticks."
And it came to pass that Robert would fulfill God's promise tenfold.
From my own first-hand dealings with a person who had/has a severe mental illness, I know that in many ways it is wose than dealing with the death of that person. You always want to see the "other," the one who was there before, come forward, but you are always disappointed.
We were always taught that God does not give a person more than he can handle, especially if you ask for His help. God must have known how strong Mr. Harmes was/is to trust him with so many crosses to bear.
I wish him much contentment and peace during the rest of his journey through this "vale of tears."
Posted by Diana on February 19, 2007 01:47 PMwow ! Amazing <> I was a sophmore at Valley when this happen and recall hearing about the accident that morning in school from fellow students or teachers.Me and Vern Moser jumped in his car for some reason I dont know and drove to the site..I cant remember what happened yesterday but i can still remember that morning.. was a shock.. didnt expect to see what i saw..
I think we got in trouble for being late for class when we returned. It is amazing how God picks and chooses the one s to live and ones to die and one s to suffer for 45 years..
wow ! Amazing <> I was a sophmore at Valley when this happen and recall hearing about the accident that morning in school from fellow students or teachers.Me and Vern Moser jumped in his car for some reason I dont know and drove to the site..I cant remember what happened yesterday but i can still remember that morning.. was a shock.. didnt expect to see what i saw..
I think we got in trouble for being late for class when we returned. It is amazing how God picks and chooses the one s to live and ones to die and one s to suffer for 45 years..
As I follow this magnificent piece of journalism. I think to myself, would the children and parents like to visit or talk with Mr. Harms (e-mail)? Would Mr. Harms like to visit with the children and parents he so fondly cared for? As he was a part of their everyday life, then, now and forever. You know, sometimes a hug goes a long way to mend a fence. As Mr. Harms states at the end of his story, I will be OK. I pray that you all will be OK in your time of need.
Posted by Steven G. on February 19, 2007 08:55 AMI would like to Thank everyone for your condolences for the passing of my Mother,
She is now free of all her pain.
I would also like to Thank everyone who has been donating to the memoral fund.
Henry and Marilyn Axmacher
Brodie and Sherron Garnett
William And Charlotte Bagwell
Richard and Valorie Aho
Thomas Stevens
George Beard
Thank you all so much!
We are about a sixth of the way there!
Tim
To anyone else who would like to donate to help place a stone marker at the accident site
donations can be made to the....
The Auburn Bus Memolial Fund
C/O Compass Bank
3501 West 12th St.
Greeley Colorado
80620
Or by contacting
Timothy Geisick
4125 Saltgrass Lane
Evans Colorado
80620
(970) 371-9047
tim@lefthandcorner.com
Mary Brantner and family,
I wanted to share a song with you that I think is pretty fitting for what's happening in your life. I know it gives me some peace when I hear it about loved ones who have passed on. It is a country song sung by Brad Paisley. Here it is:
When I get where I'm going
On the far side of the sky
The first thing that I'm gonna do
Is spread my wings and fly
I'm gonna land beside a lion
And run my fingers through his mane
Or I might find out what it's like
To ride a drop of rain
[Chorus]
Yeah when I get where I'm going
There'll be only happy tears
I will shed the sins and struggles
I have carried all these years
And I'll leave my heart wide open
I will love and have no fear
Yeah when I get where I'm going
Don't cry for me down here
I'm gonna walk with my grand daddy
And he'll match me step for step
And I'll tell him how I missed him
Every minute since he left
Then I'll hug his neck
[Repeat chorus]
So much pain and so much darkness
In this world we stumble through
All these questions I can't answer
So much work to do
But when I get where I'm going
And I see my maker's face
I'll stand forever in the light
Of his amazing grace
Yeah when I get where I'm going
There'll be only happy tears
Hallelujah
I will love and have no fear
When I get where I'm going
Yeah when I get where I'm going
...........................................................
I know you are remembering good memories of your sister and I hope you find some comfort in the fact that she is up in heaven and finally at peace within our Makers Amazing GRACE. My thoughts and prayers are always with you and your family
Mary
Our thoughts are with you, your mother, and all your family.
God Bless you all.
The Craven family
Good points, Sue.
The engineer's statement bothers me, but I have never known of an engineer failing to sound the horn.
Regardless, I always look.
I would never entrust the lives of my children to an engineer not blowing his horn - for whatever reason - heart attack, siezure, sleeping, distraction, horn malfunction.
Likewise, I never trust the signals, though I have never known them to fail.
(Even if the power fails, they operate from storage batteries.)
This is why all busses must stop at RR crossings even with signals.
If the crossing was dangerous, such as on a curve, I would refuse to cross, report it, and likely get fired.
Far better I be fired than anyone killed.
But I have never encountered a crossing where I could not see far enough down the track to be safe.
If sight was too limited, they would install signals or eliminate the crossing.
The school district would not allow a bus to cross such a crossing.
JRW, I have always known I am vulnerable to anything from accidents to diseases.
This is why, as a child, I wore seatbelts from the day they came out.
I always wear my motorcycle helmet, and always read aircraft instructions.
Call it superior intellect? I term it simple precautions taken by a child.
My heart goes out to Harms for a simple mistake easily made.
How many mistakes have I made from which I undeservedly lucked out?
How many I am not even aware of?
This would not be one of them.
To the Bratners'and Geisecks' , my heartfelt condolences on Susie's passing. Peace be with you.
Posted by J.Schoenhoff on February 18, 2007 08:25 PMFor the sanctimonious, self-righteous who continue to point blame and state that their superior intellect and/or knowledge allows them to know with certainty who is to blame and that you would have been able to escape the fate of the bus that day, may I suggest you bow your head, recall all of those close calls you have had during your lives, and say “There, but for the Grace of God, go I.” Quit trying to put yourself above the rest of us imperfect, fallible humans.
You were not there. It’s ridiculous to say, with 100% certainty, that the blame lies with one person or another. Eyewitness accounts are often erroneous. Everyone saw the events through their own rather imperfect eyes. If you learn nothing else out of this, perhaps you could try this: Horrible things happen in split seconds; never believe you are invincible and never leave a friend or loved one with discord between you.
To everyone here who had their lives touched by this tragedy, I pray you have found peace and some measure of healing over the years.
And I’ll say it again: There, but for the Grace of God, go I.
Posted by JRW on February 18, 2007 06:38 PMI would like to express my deepest sympathy to all of the family members and friends of Susie. I feel a connection to everyone here after reading all of this story and postings. I don't know anyone personally, but this story has really touched my heart. To Mrs Brantner, Mary, and all of Susie's immediate family. May you cherish all of your wonderful memories that you have of your time spent with someone who meant so much to all who loved her. Mary I hope if Paul is in the area that he will be able to be here with you and your mother.
Posted by JS on February 18, 2007 04:10 PMMr Gift
What would you say if I told you that the train did not blow its whisle at or before the crossing?
My father was on WCR 43 at the time of the accident and has his window down and no radio turned on, he said that he heard the train when it was at the first crossing but when it got near the second one(accident site) the train did not blow the whisle. My father did talk to an officer at the site, but was never contacted from the DA's office. My father was out of town when the trial was going on so he never got to tell his story.
I have for years wondered why the train after it say the bus did not lay on the horn, it could have made a difference. But as this is all hind sight we will never know. We all can say that we would have done something different but if the bus driver had went back to the other crossing and around to get back to where he was going it would have taken him atleast 5 miles out of the way.
To all who were touched by the life of Sue,
Memories will always live within us. My deepest sympathy goes out to all. I will continue to keep all of you in my prayers.
Just another reader touched so deeply by all of the stories. An important lesson of our beloved Colorado,
Annette
Posted by Annette on February 18, 2007 09:54 AMI was 8 years old when the accident happened and lived 5 miles from the crossing which I continue to drive by to this day. I have thought of it all these years.
I did not attend Auburn, but after the accident many of these kids began to attend my school. I never knew they were involved. I wish I had.
We get complacent now days about how every traumatic event calls in counselors, but I wish all those involved with this would have had that opportunity. It is cathartic to talk about it, as these postings show.
I loved the video with Mr & Mrs Larson. You could see the absolute joy, still today, when she talked about her son.
Life is fragile. Everyone one of us walk a thin line every day. Careful or not, safety or not, there are so many thin moments that any of us could cross over.
That is the real crossing which all of us will make. Use it to live well now.
My sympathy to Tim Giesick. May you rememer your mother with joy, and move forward with the memorial which will stand for so many of us.
Posted by on February 18, 2007 09:32 AMMy condolences to the Brantner and Giesick families.
Diane and Dick and others, you are right.
This subject is not about me and my posts are more appropriate in a Highway Safety forum.
As a bus driver, I can defend the blameless railroad and train crew.
My bus would NOT have been hit....not out of superior driving talent, God's favor, or ability to predict the future.
I WOULD have MADE the MISTAKE of thinking the train already passed.
But STOP, LOOK, LISTEN would have saved me -as it would any driver.
Even if we are on opposing sides, I will still come to Betty's aid.
If I can help with the memorial, which I first opposed if on RR property, I'll be there to dig and do the heavy work.
But my position on driver responsibilty remains unchanged.
Sue has passed on to what she called her next big adventure . They found the cancer last July . She tried to give us all time to say good bye . But we all thought we had another day or week .We where not ready yet to let her go. Life is so short . And there never seems to be enough time to do or say what we need to . We now do what every family should . We are together talking about the good times and growing up. The memeries are precious and important . They make us laugh , cry , but they are good ones .
She leaves behind four children , two step-children , and seven grand children. She was married to Bill Buss for 15 of her last years and was very happy .Her first husband was August Geisick . They where married for 19 years .
She had painful memories of that long ago day in 1961 and 1962 . She would cry when anyone brought it up . She and Kathy had a fight that morning . Sue was messy and Kathy wanted a spotless room. It was a silly thing to fight about but then when do brothers and sisters think about that .She never got to say she as sorry to Kathy . And it bothered her to have to know the last words where angrey .She and Johnny where as close as two can be . She had what some would call a nervous break down after his passing . I like to think he was the first person to meet her at heavens door. I have had the last 45 years with her . Now it's Kathy , Mark and Johnny's turn to have her back. I will miss my sister more then anything , but I would not want her to continue to live in pain.
Please spend more time with those you love .
Make your peace with those you have hurt or wronged or even just argued with . Hug your children. Spend your time wisely. Put most of all show love, kindness and caring to every one. Family , friends and strangers alike. For when God calls you home , you have lost that chance to . People , hatered and thoughtless acts are what hurt and destroy every thing you work to build . All the angrey thoughts hurt you more then anyone else .
Try to live today as if it where your last . Because you may not have another day . Time is getting short , get out there and live.
Forgiveness, sadly, eludes most Americans amid our quests for peace and understanding. This series should remind all of us about the power of the human spirit to find solace in ourselves and our families--all without the help of grief counselors and social workers trained to help people navigate emotional minefields inevitable after a tragedy of this magnitude. I have the utmost respect for ALL of the families whose lives were torn apart by this devastating accident. By opening up these festering wounds and allowing us to emphathize, cry, hurt, and reflect, they have inspired us to think about what it means to forgive (never to be confused with "forgetting").
Thankfully, these people have exposed the effects of December 14, 1961 in gut-wrenching detail. Such detail should enable all of us to discuss what it means to forgive, and perhaps find meaning amid inevitable tragedy. We owe all of the families (Branter, Alles, Harms, etc.) a sincere showing of respect for having the raw courage and bravery to re-examine their lives around the epicenter of the bus accident. This is something so few of us would ever be willing, much less able to do. May all of the families find peace and joy as they embark upon your quests for healthy and rewarding lives.
Posted by History Teach on February 18, 2007 01:28 AMFor all the Brantner and Geisick families. Our thoughts are with you.
Tony & Pam
Posted by Tony P on February 17, 2007 08:18 PMMary,
Ann called me this morning to tell me of the loss of your sister Susie to her very difficult battle with cancer. I talked with your mom this evening. My thoughts and prayers go out to you, your Mother, Bob, Jim, Paul and all of Susie's family. I know this is a very difficult time and you all have my deepest sympathy.
God Bless you all,
Barbara Hutchinson
I received an email from Mary. The services will be in Greeley, probably Wednesday. Adamson Mortuary is handling the arrangements.
This is so sad for the family. Jim will not be able to make it because of his serious medical problems. And since Bobby was not allowed to attend his father's funeral, he most likely will not attend this.
When my uncle died, my grandmother had already lost three daughters. She was old, and it took so much of her sparkle to lose another. She had been aware that she was living for all of us who loved her and still needed her, but the death of one more child and her age made it too hard.
I can't imagine what Mrs. Brantner must be feeling--so much sorrow. And the rest of the family, too. Mary is taking it hard, she says.
Please keep them all in your thoughts and prayers.
Posted by Diana on February 17, 2007 07:49 PMMy deepest sympathies to the Brantner and Geisick families for their loss today. It seems doubly cruel for this to happen right now in the midst of the rememberances of 12-14-61. May God's merciful comfort and blessings be with you.
Posted by on February 17, 2007 06:26 PMTo ALL of Sue's family and friends
I am so sorry to hear of Sue's passing.
You are all in my thoughts and prayers remember that she will always be near you and in your hearts.
to Tim Geisick, Mrs. Brantner, Mary Brantner, Bob Brantner and all the rest of your family, and ALL of Sue's family, please except my sympathy, All of you have been, and will continue to be in my prayers. God Bless each of you and may he walk with you and hold you in his arms. Blessings Lynda
Posted by lynda on February 17, 2007 05:20 PMJust a note to let you all know that Sue Brantner, the oldest, lost her battle with cancer this morning. She is the mother of Tim Geisick, who is organizing the memorial fund. My thoughts and prayers are with the family.
Posted by Ramona Bywater on February 17, 2007 04:13 PMI think we all are forgetting that this is a story of Colorado history. It is very tragic and sad. 45 years have passed so therefore we really don't need to determine who's fault it was or is. Let it go. Mr. Gift have you NEVER had anything horrible and tragic happen to you? Not everything needs an answer.
Posted by Julie on February 17, 2007 04:08 PMI think we all are forgetting that this is a story of Colorado history. It is very tragic and sad. 45 years have passed so therefore we really don't need to determine who's fault it was or is. Let it go. Mr. Gift have you NEVER had anything horrible and tragic happen to you? Not everything needs an answer.
Posted by Julie on February 17, 2007 04:06 PMfunny, I din't mention Bob in my post, only Cheryl and her family. I can't understand why people can't hear another's point of view without being called hateful. God bless you.
Posted by on February 17, 2007 12:31 PMOnly point I wanted to make was that observations on highway safety were probably not best-suited for this website.
Most of us see this forum as a daily tribute to ordinary people who, after 47 years, have been asked to share their inspiring stories with total strangers. We thank you.
Posted by Dick Dedrick on February 17, 2007 12:08 PMwhether you think it is criticism or not. You just don't get it. Everyone here is remembering Cheryl. You are making it obvious that you are upset with Bob for what he did and you have every right to do that but no one on this forum is defending him and you sound like you are criticizing the people on this post. We all loved Cheryl. I am glad we are remembering good memories of her. Don't let this persons hateful nature take away from what a beautiful person she was. We can't change the past but we can look forward and I am sure Cheryl is looking down from above watching over her friends and family everday
Posted by on February 17, 2007 12:04 PMThere was no criticism. I have my opinions and you have yours. What was written was that most of the posts ignore Cheryl and her (biological) family. I don’t know why people always take things as criticism. I just think it is important to remember Cheryl today. She is the one who lost her life, lost the chance to see her children grow up, lost the chance to hold her grand children. As far as a name goes, I could call myself anything. What difference does that make? It is the exchange of ideas that matters. I chose to acknowledge the murder victim and her family.
Posted by on February 17, 2007 11:51 AMIt is obvious from whoever is posting today, that they are either a friend or family member of Cheryl Brantner and are quite upset with the situation. We must remember that a lot of the crossings stories are about what happened to the people that were on that bus. Kevin never stated that he believed or didn't believe Bob's story. He is telling a story about the life that became of a little boy that was in a horrible bus/train accident. I don't think there is a person on here that doesn't feel sympathy or sorrow for Cheryl. Even Mary herself discussed how sad she was and how upset she had been for a long time with her brother for what happened. My deepest sympathy for the boys and cheryl's parents if they are still around as well as for any who may have been close to her. I know it has been hard for Mary. Thank you for sharing more memories with us Mary so we see more of who Cheryl was. She sounded like a wonderful person. GOD BLESS
Posted by Depressed in Dacono on February 17, 2007 11:48 AMIf I came across as seeming to be unsympathetic to Cheryl's family, friends, and children, that was not my intent in the least. I can't begin to imagine how awful they must have all felt (and I know Mary B has written here that Cheryl was a real sister to her). We must remember that the Brantners ARE part of her family and so is Bob and that the living must go on. This story is representative of us as human and living with our strengths and limitations AS humans. None of us is perfect. I am happy to sign my post with my name. While I respect people's right to post anonymously, I find it interesting that often those with criticisms are the ones to do so.
Respectfully,
Cathy
Posted by Cathy on February 17, 2007 11:33 AMTo find the articles use Google news archive search. Search under Cheryl Brantner murder Colorado Springs. There is a fee to read the articles.
Posted by on February 17, 2007 11:13 AMTo Posted by on February 17, 2007 08:29 AM: Can you provide a link to the news accounts of the Cheryl Brantner murder you reference? I haven't been successful in finding additional information in the internet, and I'd very much like to read more about it.
I am surprised by the lack of sympathy expressed here for Cheryl. Cheryl also had parents and a family. Cheryl had friends and parents that loved her.
Posted by on February 17, 2007 10:49 AMI don’t believe all people have the potential of violence, let alone murder. I just can’t agree with that. Remember that BTK as a respected member of the community until he was arrested. I only have sympathy for Cheryl’s family and how painful it must have been to have their daughter murdered.
Posted by on February 17, 2007 10:44 AMTo the Brantner Family: I am a resident of Colorado Springs and I wondered if you knew that there is a lovely plaque outside the OB ward at Penrose Community Hospital here that is dedicated to Cheryl and her work. I saw it when I went to Penrose several years ago to see a friend and her new baby.
Why violence occurs is something we as people may never truly understand. We ALL have the potential to be violent. I, as a pacifist, was stunned to realize that when my first child was born that I would protect him no matter what I had to do, even if that meant to commit violence. That realization came in a horrifying dream I had but I think those of us who have children probably have had similar realizations. Just because someone has never been violent doesn't mean they will be and it doesn't mean that they won't be. And just because they have been doesn't mean that they will (or won't) again. Since none of us were there in that bedroom and know what happened we'll never truly know and I agree with the sentiment that Mary shared that it was a tragedy that engendered yet ANOTHER loss in the family. BUT, we must also remember that Bob is still a human being, regardless of what the court's decision was and he still has worth, is contributing to society and paying the debt that the court imposed on him, and that there are people who care about him. As a parent, I cannot EVEN imagine the pain that Mrs. Brantner, her late husband, and family have endured with Bob's trial and incarceration and the loss of Cheryl. BUT he is still their son and still a brother and a father. None of that will ever change what happened that December morning but my heart still goes out to all involved.
To end, I would like to share a poem that gave me great solace when I saw it printed on a funeral program at a dear friend's service a year and a half ago. It is by the poet Henry van Dyke. (Text maybe found on Wikipedia.) I hope it helps others as well. As long as we remember those we loved, they are never truly gone from us.
"Gone From My Sight"
I am standing upon the seashore. A ship at my side spreads her white sails to the morning breeze and starts for the blue ocean. She is an object of beauty and strength. I stand and watch her at length she hangs like a speck of white cloud just where the sea and sky come to mingle with each other.
Then someone at my side says: "There, she is gone!"
"Gone where?"
Gone from my sight. That is all. She is just as large in mast and hull and spar as she was when she left my side and she is just as able to bear her load of living freight to her destined port.
Her diminshed size is in me, not in her. And just at the moment when someone at my side says: "There, she is gone!" there are other eyes watching her coming, and other voices ready to take up the glad shout: "Here she comes!"
And that is dying.
I would also like to know if there is any way to email/write to Bob Brantner. He may not remember me but I was in his class at the time of the bus accident. I have thought of him often over the years whenever I thought of the bus accident and would like to let him know that my thoughts and prayers are with him as they are with all others that were connected to this tragic event and all that came after.
Posted by Lin on February 17, 2007 09:22 AMWould you all quit sqaubbling and making Mr. Gift, who is not really part of this series, the focus of this discussion thread. He can post, and you can ignore if you don't like what he says.
Mary, I hope you don't mind. I'll email you instead.
Posted by Diana on February 17, 2007 09:17 AMI would like to remember the victim today. Cheryl and her family were the victims of a violent crime. My sympathy is with her children and her parents if they are still living and to any siblings she may have had. Cheryl was a mother, sister, and someone’s daughter. I find it interesting that the criminals are usually in the spot light and the victim lost in the back ground. The coroner said that she had been beat all over with some type of object because of all her wounds. Robert left his wife and went to work as nothing happened. My prayers are for Cheryl and her family.
Robert Brantner, accused of beating his wife to death, told police shortly after her death that he had not been having an affair. But he carried photographs of another woman in his wallet and had a love letter in his pickup truck, the jury in his murder trial was told on Friday. (Article found on line)
Prosecutors and defense attorneys agree that Cheryl Brantner, an obstetrics supervisor at Penrose Community Hospital, suffered a head injury so severe that she died. Where and how she died is the key issue in the second-degree murder trial of her husband, Robert Brantner, a 44-year-old Sierra High School teacher. (Article found on line)
Posted by on February 17, 2007 08:29 AMAfter reading this chapter, I feel that Bob Brantner's sentence of forty years was too harsh. In the arena of a heated argument tempers flared and things got way out of control. Domestic violence. Too many similar crimes have gotten less punishment. He is not a threat to society. I was wondering if after serving half your sentence- are you eligible for parole in Colorado? His mother, Katherine Brantner's inner strength continues to amaze me. She is one strong woman. Thank you- to her daughter Mary for adding insight to these posts.
Posted by Chris on February 17, 2007 07:52 AMMary,
Is there a way to email Bob? I fondly remember times with him, and all of your family.
I am amazed at the attitudes of people who write here, some are caring, thoughtful, loving, respectful. Others are criticizing, hurtful, so full of knowledge for not being there or involved. I would love to hear from you and others. You can reach me at www.neukirchconstruction.com , go to the inquiry form, send me your address, it won't be everywhere.
May God bless you, and everyone that has been so supportive.
Daryl
I wish Bob would just tell the truth and stop making up stories about what happened that day. I am sorry but I can’t buy that “poor me” attitude. I am sure he had pain, but so do a lot of people. Everyone in this story had painful memories and lived through a nightmare; they didn’t take someone else’s life.
Posted by on February 17, 2007 07:14 AMDear Quit Pointing
At first, I thought you were merely a harmless religious holier-than-thou nutcase.
Now, I'm convinced you are also a paranoid delusional idiot. Please seek professional help, for your own good.
Flynn
Posted by Flynn on February 16, 2007 11:03 PMOn the memorial what is the plan for any left over money? I was wanting to know before i get out the checkbook. Thanks
Posted by on February 16, 2007 10:57 PMMr. Gift, Flynn and Dick Dedrick, I'm wondering if you could help me be a winner with last weeks Powerball numbers. I'm certain that you can tell me how I could have won last week. I know that if you'd had the time and money that you would have bet on the winning numbers so you could tell us how you knew how to win, and that it wasn't a question of fate, but an answer of knowing what the winning numbers were going to be. Wait...maybe you won and I didn't know. With your great insightfulness I'd like to know what numbers I should bet on this week...I'm ready to count and spend my winnings....even ready to share...
Do you care to challenge your incredible ability of hindsight to predict the future??? I'm betting on all of you with your infinite wisdom...please let me in on your blessed ability to determine today?
Dick Dedrick and Flynn:
Dick, I challenge you to read the flip-flop attitude of Mr. Gift from the very beginning...and Flynn...I apologized to you for my opinions of you just a couple days ago for your lack of understanding and recognized the freedom of everyone, including you, to question the circumstances and because you haven't been as superficial and twisted in your posts as Mr. Gift has been. What a fool you made of me to forgive you of your innocence, but now what a fool YOU are and I challenge your sensibility and sanity again. To cowtow to Mr. Gift and his self-serving platitudes and righteousness are horribly reprehensible....Shame on YOU. By supporting him, you believe, as he has professed, that he would have saved 20 children. How absolutely ludicrous, unintelligent, and idiotic on the three of you. I think that Overland Alumni and Jeanne S. took the time to read the vascillations of Mr. Gifts messages from the beginning and realize what I'm suggesting about his integrity. I am not as vehement as Overland Alumni and appreciate the freedom of speech, but I think the underlying theme we're suggesting is that we don't appreciate stupidity. As I said before, you can change ignorance, but you can't change stupidity....and Mr. Gift, Mr. Flynn, Mr. Dedrick, and Jonesy are creating conflict because of their stupidity. For Mr. Dedrick and Jonesy...take the time to read the posts of Mr. Gift, and Mr. Flynn and realize the waivering and placating responses to everyone, including Mr. Gifts' placation to Mary Bratner...you'll see how shallow and superficial his messages are....and the attempt to align himself with Mary is abhorrent. Overland Alumni...you're much more challenging in your messages than I would ever be....but I think that our messages suggest the same thing....Mr. Gift is the best Hindsight Quarterback we've ever seen.
Mr. Gift...just as I challenged you before on your qualifications...I believe that you think they qualify you as the most competent person to speak on avoiding this tragedy, but your resume is not that qualifying. Whether or not you have the skills to speak to this, I certainly an abhorrent with your earlier messages that you would have prevented such a tragic accident....that you would have put the bus in reverse and taken a much wider and time-delayed route....how magnificently purposeful and humble your hindsightedness is. Overland Alumni and Jeanne S., et al...knowing that you have taken time to read the messages of the above, it doesn't take much to realize how the messages of Mr. Gift and Flynn and Dick Dedrick are lacking empathy, sympathy, forgiveness, and objectivity...that they full of selfishness and stupidity. To everyone else...take the time to read their messages and you'll come to realize the vascillations and self-serving egos that they have to allow their vindictiveness to create such a conflict that compromises the truth that was processed with a legal system at that time.
I've had the good fortune to work with and come to know Vicky Munson.
Vicky you truly are an inspiration to me and many people,coming through so many losses in your life.
Being a nurse is not a career,it is a calling... from God.
God bless you
Mary B
In reading the comments posted, I feel that most everyone is deeply moved by this series. Hopefully it has been cathartic for those who actually lived through it. I pray that they will find peace and some amount of closure. Comments by the likes of Mr. Gift, are for the sole purpose of provoking a response. His comments serve no purpose,other than to "stir up the pot."
Posted by Jeanne S. on February 16, 2007 06:32 PMMr. Gift's observations ring true. They are well-worth remembering. But they're probably better-suited for a forum on highway safety. Most of us adding our thoughts to this website simply want to pay tribute to some very special people - just plain country folks.
Posted by Dick Dedrick on February 16, 2007 05:39 PMVicki Munson has endured a lot of heartache. She was involved in the bus accident, she lost a brother in a horrible farm accident, and she was only 17 years old when her father passed away. Vicki also lost three other brothers and her son. Vicki has somehow made it through all the heartache and pain. Vicki is an inspiration and she has my utmost admiration and respect. It doesn’t surprise me that you chose a profession helping people. The world needs more people like you in it. Thank you again for sharing your own personal and painful story. God bless.
Posted by on February 16, 2007 05:36 PMAnyone interested in seeing a map or aerial view of the locale can go to www.mapquest.com and enter:
[21400-21498] County Road 52
Greeley, CO 80631
BTW, I'm with those who say back off the flaming of Mr. Gift. He seems like a perfectly OK chap with opinions as valid as anyone else's.
At least you know exactly where I'm coming from. Mr Gift is exploiting the pain of others under a cloak of "honest debate". THIS makes him a monster.
Trolls like him are a dime a dozen on the net. I know exactly what he is ALLL about. Maybe that makes me a troll too!
I challenge you to go re-read all of his posts utilizing some basic logic & critical thinking. He is using hindsight to elevate him to godlike status, claiming he would never make the same mistake. THAT is disgusting & exploitive. Not to mention utterly retarded. He is a very very bad person. And I guarantee you he would never EVER meet Ms Mary face to face. Not in a million years. He's a troll and a coward. And he has you duped into thinking he actually cares.
Posted by Overland_Alumni on February 16, 2007 02:17 PMKathy....
I have asked Kevin Vaughan about posting a map and directions to the site for everyone who wants to visit.
Hopefully he can add it to the information part on the chapter page.
There is always so much to say and so little time.
I was talking to my husband about how many accidents Mr. Sommers had as a train engineer. It seems like a lot to me but we decided that it must be like a police officer. Some never have to draw their guns while others have to many times in their careers. We will never know if Mr. Sommers was telling the whole truth but we do know that there was nothing he could do once the bus was on the tracks in front of him. I am saddened by the fact that Mrs. Sommers felt she had to end her life. It must have been horrible for her as well.
Jerry, I pray that you will be able to reconnect with your other son. Life is hard enough, as you will know, without being estranged from a child.
Mary, I am sorry to hear about so many health problems in your family. Don't let the stress of this story or these postings weaken you. I am angry that someone had the nerve to call you and say whatever they said. That kind of behavior embarrasses me and I don't even know who did it.
My prayers are continually going out to all involved in this piece of history. Even though I have some different feelings about this accident, I care about people. I hope that getting some of these things out will help you.
Each day the story just grabs my heart. I can't wait for the next issue. I wish I could read it all but then there wouldn't be time to reflect on each person and their story.
I hope to be at the memorial celebration. If I can't make it I will certainly go and visit.
Please give the directions to the site of the accident one more time. I would like to go there and say a prayer.
Posted by Kathy on February 16, 2007 12:42 PMIt is truly amazing to me that such a beautiful story can bring out such anger and bitterness in some people who were not even involved in this tragedy. For someone to refer to another human being as "garbage" proves the point that some people just don't get it. It is my sincere hope, Overland_Alumni, that reading this story will help you realize the beauty of life, and how it is to be appreciated. It is very sad that some people have used this forum to say such hateful things. I hope the survivors who read and participate in the discussions don't feel that this series has been cheapened by those who feel the need to spread their anger, or bitterness, or whatever it is that makes them feel that they have to say these hurtful things.
Posted by Jonesy on February 16, 2007 12:07 PMLighten up "Overland Alumni". Mr. Gift has his opinions on the accident & this documentary- he has never been foul mouth and he certainly is not a monster. I even read where Mary Brantner would like to meet him one day- maybe at the gathering with Mr. Vaughan. A great gesture. I have read all these posts & I differ with many of Mr. Gift's comments but give the guy a break! At least Robert Gift has the integrity to put his name to his posts.
Posted by Christopher on February 16, 2007 11:48 AMI think Vicki is the only one who should answer what happened to her family members. I feel that if she wanted to share that information it would have been included in the article. I think some things need to be kept private and answered only by that person
Posted by on February 16, 2007 09:39 AMVicki Munson has endured a lot of heartache. She was involved in the bus accident, she lost a brother in a horrible farm accident, and she was only 17 years old when her father passed away. Vicki also lost three other brothers and her son. Vicki has somehow made it through all the heartache and pain. Vicki is an inspiration and she has my utmost admiration and respect. It doesn’t surprise me that you chose a profession helping people. The world needs more people like you in it. Thank you again for sharing your own personal and painful story. God bless.
Posted by on February 16, 2007 09:34 AMMr Gift,
You are such a monster. Nobody cares about your halfwit opinions. You define what it is to be a Monday Morning Quarterback.
Seriously, I'm not merely trying to rub you the wrong way or be controversial with calling you out on this. I truly mean it when I say you are an evil, sad, pathetic troll. You have a black pit for a soul and humanity has been greatly diminished by your presence. You are filth. Garbage. NOW LEAVE.
ps, Nobody cares. Nobody likes you. You are a monster. A pathetic, lonely, mere shell of a human being.
Posted by Overland_Alumni on February 16, 2007 09:27 AMIt was chilling today to read what Vicki had to say about her thoughts on that day.
For a long time, she wished she had been taken at the crossing so she could have avoided the pain that came later.
"I was young, and I wouldn't have known," she says. "I would have just been gone."
Last night, we went to see the "Pillowman". It is a play showing at the Denver Center For Performing Arts. It is about this very thought. That while you are still a child and before life gives you all of the tragic moments, a "Pillowman" comes and tells you how terrible your life will be and he is there with you while you take your own life before it can be filled with tragedy. The whole night I was thinking aobut The Crossing story. The play is a little twisted at parts but in some way it makes you think that just maybe, there was someone with these children in their final moments comforting them.
I pray nightly for all that was and is involved in this life changing event. You are all so strong.
Posted by on February 16, 2007 09:21 AMHello...Does anyone know what caused so many members of Vicky's family to pass at such a young age? I used to work with Vicky in the early 90's. She was always so beautiful. I had no idea she had to endure such tragedy.
Posted by Rhonda on February 16, 2007 09:17 AMPJSB
You may be right about Mr. Girnt getting a statement from Sommers, I don't know if that's in the records. However, seeing as how neither Sommers nor Swanson went back to the scene of the accident, Girnt would have had to walk a ways to and from the engine to talk to them. He may have had his hands too full with more pressing needs than to do that. If Officer Girnt did get a statement, it was probably very brief, with little detail.
I just wanted to say that after all of the things Vicki has had to endure she is a "Great person" , loving, and very caring!!! She has proven no matter what path life takes you through, you can still come out on top and still be a good person!!!
Eva Martinez
Greeley
I've followed this series from the beginning. It is both compelling and heartwrenching.Seeing the faces of the children involved,knowing that many of them would be around my age(I'm 54) is part of what haunts me. I'm so inspired by the enduring faith and strength of all the families. So many of them have dealt with an inordinate amount of loss and heartache. My heart an prayers go out to all of them. God bless you. J.S. Denver
Posted by Jeanne S. on February 16, 2007 07:59 AMEach time I read a person's story, I am humbled more than before.
Vicky Allmer's line of work shows her character. We don't often acknowledge all the underpaid caretakers in our world.
My grandmother lived the last of her 99 years in a nursing home in Greeley. She and our entire family can not praise enough the compassion and concern of all those people who made her last years more comfortable.
I think Vicky's realization of God's abundance and love is worth far more than material goods. I wish for her always to feel how important her life is.
Posted by Diana on February 16, 2007 07:57 AMVicki sounds like a strong woman. It would be hard to lose a sibling let a lone your own child. It sounds like she was able to work through her grief. The pain will never be gone. I hope Vicki is able to live a life that brings her contentment and peace
Posted by on February 16, 2007 07:47 AMI would like to thank Vicki for sharing her story. The Munson’s like all the families also had their share of grief and suffering. The Munson children survived that day, but other tragedy kept the grief alive for that family. Life is not easy. I think Kevin Vaughn through his writing allows us a look at the human side of this accident rather than just the head line. I appreciate the follow ups on the families, and now realize that most people live through a lot of pain both physical and emotional. God bless the Munson family
Posted by on February 16, 2007 07:38 AMSusan.....
Our family never received any money . I asked Mom about it and she said no. Maybe it was sent only to the families that had children hurt . She said they did not even get help with funeral expences . That part was hard on all the families because we where not wealthy by any means .
Tim...a post from "quit" or "quit placing guilt"...
Have you received approval for a non-profit organization? Are you approved, for what I think is a 503(c) designation that has tax deductible contributions. If you want to visit about this let me know, because with the right designation there are companies that allow "matching" funds...to double the gift.....
Mary, I just had a question about what Mr Hembry spoke about the check he recieved. Did all families receive money and who was it from? I'm sure it didn't matter to most families and it did not seem to be wanted from Jerry either but I was just curious.
Thank you to all the families for sharing their thoughts and memories. This has been quite a moving story and I have learned a lot from it. I cherish every day that I have with my husband and children and I have noticed that I am a much happier person because of this story and all the positives posts on this site. I have realized that life is too short to sweat the small stuff. I pray everyday for all the families for peace and happiness. It is obvious that there have been a lot of joys throughout this ordeal. Even when there has been more heartache I can see the happiness. For example: Bob Brantner although a tragic story, he has three wonderful kids, Mary you seem to have a wonderful family with a grandchild on the way. Congratulations. Even the Heimbucks and the Paxtons, although they lost everything they found good friends in each other. And though I do not take their loss lightly I see that there was a little bit of joy in friendship. We should all cherish our friends as well as our families and live everyday to the fullest. God Bless everyone, even those that are reading this story and posting on this site
Flynn,
You wrote:
I imagine that during the drive back up to Greeley that afternoon, to talk to the DA, their Union Pacific supervisor told Sommers and Swanson exactly what to say.
I believe Mr. Sommers was required to provide a statement to the investigating officer (Donald Girnt) before the train was allowed to proceed on to Denver -- before anyone had a chance to tell him "exactly what to say." If Mr. Sommers changed his account of the accident between the morning when he talked to the Highway Patrol and the afternoon at the hearing, isn't it likely that would have been brought up at some point?
Mr. Gift, et al...
For clarity, that was my post at 9:33 pm this evening
Flynn, I challenged you a long time ago about your suggestions of blame. I appreciated your questions and had responded, paraphasing, that there was a lot more to the story that would be revealed and that you didn't understand the circumstances of the tragedy...
This has been an incredible story with some answers that I knew....and many that are being answered today...
I believe that the benefit of this story is that it answers questions that hadn't been resolved for those of us close to the tragedy....and it suggests further questions that we hope to have resolved here.
I apologize for my narrowsightedness for recognizing your innocent curiousity. Yet, take the time to listen to the stories before you place blame. This, ultimately, is not a story of a re-trial of guilt...it's a story of the journey of life!
Mr. GIft,
I continue to challenge you and your integrity and suggest that all readers that have become placated and sympathetic to your recent responses the past week that they read back and realize the superficial attitude and sincere vindictive attitude of Mr. Gift. I've been here from the very beginning and I suggest that all take the time to scan the posts by Mr. Gift. He's a wolf in sheepskins. He has stated that, if he were the bus driver at that time, he would have been so full of insightfulness and intelligence and cautiousness, that he would have salvaged that day for all.
Mr. Gift....I am resentful of your magnificense and self-serving platitudes..that your hindsight allows you to suggest that you would have saved 20 children that day.
How convenient that you would lead us to believe that you're an emergency driver trainer, a fireman, a bus driver...and have ridden in lots of trains...
You are utterly despicable and reprehensible.
You have continued to use this platform to place blame...and create conflict that draws attention to you.
45 years have passed and people have tried to resolve, have survived with struggles, and are starting to get answers to a tragedy that was repressed by many....but it doesn't benefit anyone by placing blame.
Realize that this is a story of the survival and struggles of all and how it affected their lives.
Your continuing vendetta of placing blame and then trying to solace the families is tragic in itself.
Or..maybe you've been realizing the purpose and circumstances of that horrific day?
"The report had some very damaging things in it . And the train crew did and said what they were told to say . The union was not a thing to go against back then . The railroad made it very clear in the report that above all else, everyone was to take company lines and do as they were told."
Aha. Suspicions confirmed. (thanks Mary!)
From the beginning I could not figure out why Mr. Sommers was so vehement about the bus not stopping, when those who were paying attention said it did. (especially Jerry, Mr. Bindel and Mr. Larson)
I figured Mr. Sommers was (understandably) bitter with Mr. Harms for 'causing him all this trouble' as he probably saw it, plus the deaths of the children of course, and wanted to see Harms "fry". I mean, Neither Mr. Sommers nor Union Pacific could have been held in any way culpable for the accident whether or not Mr. Harms stopped. That fact should have been irrelevant to them.
I imagine that during the drive back up to Greeley that afternoon, to talk to the DA, their Union Pacific supervisor told Sommers and Swanson exactly what to say.
A question for Steve the engineer:
Is there any requirement for locomotive engineers to have a pair of eyes on the track ahead at all times? I ask because I can't help but think Sommers and Swanson looked away for a few seconds and only saw the bus on the tracks in the last few seconds.
Posted by Flynn on February 15, 2007 07:49 PMTodays story has left me very emotional. Jerry, you sound like a wonderful gentlemen and I just know your son & yourself will be reconciled soon. This series has a way of bringing things together and healing people. God works in mysteries ways and Keven, what a great service you are doing for the people of Weld County. Mary, what a heavy burden you have had to carry, knowing what was in your grandfathers possession, think of the heartache he endured. I always felt the railroad was covering their own butts. Tim, when I read your account of the donation I too, got all teary eyed. Let us all dig into our pockets and give what we can to this memorial that is long overdue. You are all in my thoughts & prayers, yes I am sure that healing comes even after 45 years.
Posted by Buddy on February 15, 2007 07:36 PMFor Jerry Hembry and also a hello for Colleen.
I knew both of you during high school, I just did not know of your involvement with the bus/train accident back at that time.
I was also incountry in '67-'68, just happened to be a ways north of the Delta.
This was my first experince with "Why not me?" A wiser man simply told me "It's not my time."
Since then, I have seen examples, both strangers and family, that very simply "it's not my time."
Accept the Peace Jerry, It is there for you.
For the rest of the family's, I wish you Peace also.
Posted by viking 1964 on February 15, 2007 07:23 PMTo anyone who would like to help to place a monument honoring the victims at the accident site,
Contributions can be made in the name of the,
Auburn Bus Memorial fund.
C/O Compass Bank
3501 West 12 street
Greeley Colorado 80634
Or by contacting,
Timothy Geisick
4125 Saltgrass Lane
Evans CO 80620
(970) 371-9047
tim@lefthandcorner.com
Tony and Pam P
I received a call form Compass Bank today,
Valerie, was so excited she could hardly speak.
After she told me the news of your amazing donation to the memorial fund, I could hardly speak myself.
All I could say is WOW! My eyes welled with tears, Thank you both so much.
Tim
Thank you Jerry Hembry for contributing to this worthwhile documentary. In reliving your past, you have added heartfelt dimension to this series. Let's hope that the mysterious bond that twins have eventually leads to a reconciliation with Mr. Hembry and his remaining son. Maybe this documentary will speed that healing process. The survivors know firsthand that life can change abruptly and the world may forever change. Cherish your family.
Posted by Tony on February 15, 2007 05:17 PMMary,
Thank you for your words today about the railroad not being honest with what was stated in the trail. It vindicates my belief that the bus driver & Jerry the 16 yr old student was telling the truth about stopping, looking and not hearing the train. There was a major cover up by the railroad.
Eventhough the papers are no longer available Mary, you know what the contents were, please share it with the public to set the record straight. It probably will lighten the burden for all...especially those who feel unnecessary guilt.
Thank you
Robert,
You are right, of course. But it doesn't do anything for the people in the other vehicles to say that. They don't often have a choice.
Posted by Diana on February 15, 2007 03:39 PMHave not driven a school bus since the 70s.
In college I was a driver instructor for the Denver AAA.
As a child, I always feared auto accidents.
Later came to realize that most are preventable and survivable: we can use seat-belts and learn to evade or lessen impact.
Example: Recently, young male driver WB on I-70 does not notice our fire engine stopped in lane #1 WB I-70. (Protecting our ambulance ahead of it.)
He applies brakes and slides, wheels not turning.
1) He should have been driving slower and looking ahead.
2) He could have changed lanes to the right to lane #2.
3) If unable to move right, he could have steered gently into the left shoulder so snow there would slow him to a stop.
He slid to a stop 3 feet from our engine.
He is not wearing seat-belts.
Darwin award contender looking for his trophy?
Previously mentioned woman school bus driver stopped with bus end just 2 feet foul of the track. She had several "outs" but did nothing. Many children died because of her criminal incompetence.
I have a hard time considering recent statistics and causes for car/train and retroactively applying them to this one. Accidents per year is not as good a comparison as # of accidents for # trains to # of cars- or some other apples to apples values. The issue is still what can be learned from that situation in that time, and might still be useful today since we have more safety equipment at the crossings and numbskulls who pay no attention.
The train was late due to the volume of Christmas mail. The trial documents and supporting statements by those who were there indicate that Harms followed proper procedure in stopping the bus, opening the door, etc.
What strikes me as the combination of contributing factors was the train being out of the line of sight to see the headlight, the problem hearing the whistle even when Harms had the door open, and the speed it was traveling.
In chapter 5, the finding of the State Trooper who investigated the accident was that Harms came within 63 inches of clearing the track. The train was moving at 115 inches per second when the engineer started applying the brakes. If my math is correct, Harms needed only one or two more seconds (depending on how fast the bus was moving) to have made it.
Sommers and Harms were both new to their jobs even though Sommers had previous train experience. If one or the other was a little more seasoned it might have made the 2 second difference.
So, the engineers distance to sound the horn was determined by what? The distance the sound would travel and be heard, the time it would take for the train to reach the crossing at what speed? Any change in the horn if the train was as far off schedule as The City of Denver was that morning?
For many impatient drivers today (some of whom can't drive anywhere without having a conversation on their cell phone, having their music blasting so loud the drivers around them might not hear a train whistle, etc.) the lesson is not just look, listen, live; it is think about the rest of the people who will pay when you lose your gamble. If you do it once and get away with it, there is no less risk the next time you try. The impact these accidents have on the engineers should certainly be a part of that lesson.
I have been married to an environmental engineer, had other engineers and safety 'freaks' in my family. I have been a critical care nurse for 19 out of 30 years in my career. 'Accidents' happen because of stupidity, failure of equipment and inadequate safety measures.
The human cost is overwhelming. The ounces of prevention save tons of cure - especially that which can never be cured. I do appreciate those who have had to bear the pain of this again, for adding to the story, helping us all learn more from it and how they coped. Mary has just shared that she had read the damning Union report that was sent to her grandfather and never made public. This is a difficult burden to bear and an even more difficult decision to make as to whether to destroy the document or bring it to light. It just goes to show how many ways an individual can bear more than one burden associated with a tragic event. Mary you are as strong as your Dad, if not stronger.
Posted by Ginny in Wheat Ridge on February 15, 2007 01:14 PMSteve....
For the most part I agree with you but I saw the offical report that the railroad sent my grandfather . He was head of the union and knew things that did not come out .
I read the whole thing and cried as to why this happened . I found the report in my grandfathers things when my uncle died. The report had some very damaging things in it . And the train crew did and said what they were told to say . The union was not a thing to go against back then . The railroad made it very clear in the report that above all else , everyone was to take company lines and do as they were told. I always wondered why my grandfather shut down after that ...now I know . I probly should of kept the documents but I knew they would hurt a lot of poeple. After talking to several people in our church and some close friends I destroyed them . Kevin had been trying to get the reports and papers from the railraod but they have dissappered . He could get no evidence , report or pictures they had taken . I wish now I had kept them safe to show the real story . My grand father kept them hidden in his closet . It remained there for 40 years . You can't go back and change what they did that day . You can't help anyone by bringing back the pain and suffuring . What was in that report was very daming . And the crew was not as innicent as everyone was lead to believe. It was horrible to read that thing . And my poor grandfather had to take company lines when he knew the truth about the death of his grand children . My grandfather died 6 years later , in 1966 .
To Kevin Vaughan....I'm sorry I didn't keep it . I know you could of done the right thing with the total truth. But when I found it I could only think of the pain it would cause . And these families had already been through enough. The rail road always wins....
I can’t imagine what the bus driver and the train engineer went through following this accident. I know the families suffered unbearable loss, and these two men also suffered the pain and anguish of what happened that day. I hope this story brings some peace to those that are still living.
Posted by on February 15, 2007 11:05 AMI would like to thank Smith for sharing that story. I have been wondering what children Jerry helped that day. I would like to send my sincere sympathies to your family Smith. God bless.
Posted by on February 15, 2007 10:10 AMJerry I have to take this opportunity to say Thank You. I was only 7 years old and remember that I was going to just walk home that day and you took my sister, Joy, myself and one of the Munson boys to a nearby house to be taken care of. I always wanted to say Thank You to you for that. My mother, Elizabeth, would say, over the years, that she would like to say the same to you also. The two ladies that were in the home at the time were so nice, I remember that they kept us warm with blankets and fresh biscuits. Wherever they are, I would like to say Thank You to them as well. I remember as a young boy my parents took me to East Memorial School when it was completed to see the plaque on the column that had the names of the victims, including my sister, Melody. I believe it should also have mentioned the heroes, like you.
Posted by Smith Freeman on February 15, 2007 09:51 AMTo Mary:
The comments about the speed of the train and the distance needed to slow the train to the 25 mph speed limit at LaSalle were incorrect. In my experience with passenger trains and passenger air brake equipment, the engineer, who was highly experienced, would have easily made that speed reduction in that distance, and no doubt would have.
Passenger trains are lighter than freight trains, and the braking equipment works differently. I noted some earlier comments that seemed to imply that the train was "speeding" to make up time. An experienced engineer knows that "speeding" is never acceptable, and that the way to make up time without exceeding the speed limit is to be more efficient in how he makes his station stops and how he slows down for restrictions (such as the 25 mph) and resumes speed after passing through those restrictions.
Similarly, the Conductor will hustle people on and off the train with a little more urgency at the station stops.
And the implication that the crew was reading a map is ludicrous.
Again, I must say, this was a tragedy all the way around, and I'm not arguing about who, if anyone, is at fault. That was settled long ago in the hearts and minds of the victims and their families, as this series is making clear.
I do, however, find it difficult to let some of the sly remarks and veiled accusations go unchallenged.
There are something like 500-600 crossing accident fatalities nationwide each year, and just over half of the fatalities occur at crossings equipped with every warning device imaginable, including STOP signs, bells, gates, lights and reflectorized tape. The safest crossing is the one that isn't there, because it's been replaced by a bridge or an underpass.
Much has been made about the location of this crossing and it's sightlines for drivers, and I agree. Yet, every day, there are communities and builders who want to install new crossings at even worse locations.
There was a passenger train/school bus crossing accident in a Chicago suburb about 10 or 15 years ago. In that one, the bus went almost all the way over the crossing, then stopped behind a line of cars at a traffic light. The driver was semingly unaware of the fact that part of the bus was still on the crossing, and remained so until a train approached and the bells started rings, the lights started flashing, and gate tried to come down, but hit the roof of the bus. The bus driver could have moved ahead, even pushing the cars in front, to get the rear of the bus off the track, but she panicked and didn't move the bus at all. There were a number of fatalities in that one, as well.
To show the difference in attitudes between the 1960's and the 1990's, there immediately began a witch hunt and massive lawsuits to try and get money from everyone from the bus manufacturer to the railroad.
Finally, I have known some of Mr. Sommers' old co-workers. He, too was bombarded with hate mail and phone calls at all hours of the night after the accident and before he died, as was his widow after he was incinerated at the crossing in Adams.
I'm sorry this is such a long answer, Mary.
Posted by Steve on February 15, 2007 09:49 AMJust a short note to add to the thanks for Jerry's story. I am sad that he had to feel any survivor's guilt about living while others died. I picture him holding the hands of those little ones and walking them away from the accident. He needed to live to do that.
God bless you always, Jerry.
Posted by Diana on February 15, 2007 09:46 AMJerry,
I really enjoyed reading todays chapter of the "crossing". You are a true inspiration to me. You have endured more in your lifetime than any one person should have to and seem to have come through everything with great pride. I am so happy for you that you have been reunited with your son Terry. I hope you enjoy a wonderful relationship with him in the days ahead of you, maybe things will turn out positive for you and Gerry's relationship as well. Do you ever come back to Colorado? Your cousins are still in this area aren't they? I don't know if you have been reading all the comments here since you are out of state, but this is a wonderful series. Have a good day.
I appreciate the honesty of Jerry Hembry. He is probably one of the few older kids that remember that horrible day. He not only remembers it but he also helped other injured children. That is quite remarkable for a young man of sixteen. Later in life, Jerry continued to have more traumas both personal and physical. He was able to overcome adversity and continued to live a meaningful life. Reading today's story reminds me of how much pain so many people in this world suffer on a daily basis. There is no “perfect” life. Life is painful for so many people, and I think if is our reaction to what happens to us that makes the difference.
Posted by on February 15, 2007 09:23 AMJerry you are an inspiration. I thank you for sharing your story. I am in awe of all the adversity life has given you and how well you have persevered. I also must comment on how you have handle yourself with dignity. You have my utmost respect. Good luck and God bless you and your family.
Posted by on February 15, 2007 09:17 AMJerry you are an inspiration. I thank you for sharing your story. I am in awe of all the adversity life has given you and how well you have persevered. I also must comment on how you have handle yourself with dignity. You have my utmost respect. Good luck and God bless you and your family.
Posted by on February 15, 2007 09:02 AMSteve the Engineer,
I find your post interesting. What about the earlier points stated about the train going 79 MPH too close to town being illegal as they could not have slowed down to the required speed by the time they got to LaSalle about 2 and 1/2 miles away is that true? Thanks
I really enjoyed reading today’s chapter about Jerry Hembry. He seems like a very good man and is trying to live his life to the fullest despite his personal tragedies. I am glad he has reconnected with his son and hope he can do the same with his other. I sure feel for him as he has not only had to deal with the bus accident, but also the chemical accident as well. Most people would not have to deal with one thing like that in their lives, let alone two plus the nasty divorce mentioned. God bless him and hopefully he will find happiness the rest of his life
Posted by Gino D. on February 15, 2007 08:27 AMThank you Mary for telling us about Paul. Thank you Paul. Hope all of you are feeling well today.
On a different note...............
I can't imagine what it must have been like for Mr. Sommers to have to get back on that train and take it into Denver . To have to go through the crossing every time he went to work and to have all those emotions arise every time.
Were there passengers on the train or was it all freight? If there were, I wonder what affect this has had on them.
I too was going to post regarding Tammy Nelson's comments on engineer Herb Sommers but since I posted earlier in the day the system would not allow it.
I am glad to see others have. Mr. Sommers did not desire these crashes and nothing on his part brought them on.
Because of the size of the train, which obeys the laws of physics completely, people have to be careful.
Tammy, I cannot believe you really understand what you posted. The train was being operated according to the rules. It was operating at the allowed speed limit and the horn was blown as was required.
Do you really believe an engineer should be fired or removed because several people drove their vehicles in front of his train? You almost make it sound like you believe the engineer takes his train off the tracks and goes across country looking for something to plow into.
I've been an engineer for over 35 years, and yes, I've been involved in crossing accidents. In all of them, the motorist drove around the gates
(even passing other cars that were already stopped to do it), ignored the lights, tried to beat the train, or committed suicide (this one had a note in his pocket confirming it).
You will never knoe the helpless feeling an engineer and anyone else in the cab at the time has when he sees what's about to happen, thows the brakes into emergency, knowing there is no way he can stop his train short of the crossing. He wakes up at night seeing the faces of those in the vehicle, when they finally become aware of what they have done and know that their 3,000 pound automobile is no match for the 3,000 ton train that is about to hit him.
And for that, you can be thankful.
I have been a bit taken aback by the fact that little or nothing has been said about the terror the engineer and fireman went through during and after the accident. although they survived the bus crash, they were victims, too.
Posted by steve on February 14, 2007 11:16 PMPaul is a privite person mostly . He is against the "crossing" for the most part . He knows how hard this is on Mom . We worry about her health as she is 83 and under to much stress.
Paul is very intelligent , a true rocket scientist . An engineer by training . He has always been one to take things apart and then put them back together only better then before. He has been married to the same wonderful lady for over 16 years . He is very gifted in crafts too . And cuts jewels and makes his own jewelry . He is an intellectual , and yet he has a soft side to . He loves children . And he loves to play with his nieces and nephews , and his grandson .
We didn't talk about the bus accident growing up . And he was just a year and a half old at the time. He has had a good life . College , Air Force , and lots of training in his chosen fields. He actually is the most powerful personality in the family. He has a lot of Daddy's traits .
He had a different thought.
That made many very distraught
The masses said to a Doctor, Dr. Tray.
Will you please log off, hit the power button and just go away.
We have our own plans that we will execute with vim and vigor.
After all with all the loving caring people the donations are getting bigger and bigger.
The school he said is not enough.
If you don’t think I will build that memorial call my bluff.
I will build that memorial with own bare hand.
On the lot we have secured, of donated land.
It will be a tribute for the dead and a healing place for the living.
A monument, a memorial, that will just keep giving and giving.
Thanks for everyone who has participated in this article. In our extended family, we have family members that were directly involved in this incident, and like so many others who have posted here are just now finding out the entire story.
I am thankful to know the story inspite of the tears and the shared heart ache that we are going through each day. There is not a day that we have read the stories or watched the videos that the entire family is not wiping tears and have been touched and related to each one who has gone through this tragedy and loss.
We are grateful for those who are posting responses to the articles as well. We are grateful for Tim, and his efforts to create a long overdue memorial site.
Through tragedies we grow closer to each other and are here to give support to each other. I hope that this will be a method of healing for those directly involved. No one can ever nor should they forget this horrible accident nor those whose lives were so affected that day.
I hope that Kevin will include a link on the webpage to the bank where myself and others may make donations for this memorial.
Thanks again for sharing with all of us these experiences.
Posted by Gwen on February 14, 2007 09:43 PMWithout a doubt- Mrs. Herb Sommers was escaping memories of the bus tragedy by committing suicide. The bus train crash was all too fresh in her mind and horrifically sad. She knew every new year would lead to the date of her husband's fatal accident followed by the infamous Dec. 14. She retreated away from her anguish. I somehow sense that she knew that the last thing her husband saw before his train and the tanker collided was a yellow school bus. Mr. Sommers never escaped those memories.
Posted by C L on February 14, 2007 09:09 PMMary,
It's nice to see you are still here. Thanks for the courage. I hope you and your family members are feeling well. I am wondering about your brother Paul. There hasn't really been much said about him. If this is his wish, I respect that and no words are necessary. If not, how has he come through these past years? I hope he is doing well
Posted by on February 14, 2007 08:48 PMMr. Gift,
Thank you for standing up for Mary the other day, it was nice to see. In this day and age, unfortunately, you don't see many strangers standing up for people they don't know. Although through the past two weeks I feel somehow we are all becoming acquaintances.
Thanks again.
Mr Gift....
I've missed you these last few days. We may have different views but I respect your points on a few things. My nephew Michael is also a fireman and has the same views as you do about crossing safety .
Mr Gift,
Are you a bus driver currently?
The best engineer in the world can do nothing about someone walking or driving into his path. The train cannot stop quickly, cannot swerve.
(An Amtrak engineer has killed 7 at crossings protected by lights, bells and gates. None were his fault in the slightest.)
To gain the engineer's perspective, I have ridden in locomotives and head ends on many occasions and videotaped grade crossing behavior.
All the engineers had ALL their crossings memorized.
They always paid attention in case someone was going to cross and also to time their long, long, short, long whistle blasts to finish at the crossing.
As a bus driver, I must order children to be quiet or threaten to not cross.
Regardless, even with all the noise; defroster, heater, wiper motors, engine, children,etc., opening the door would allow the locomotive blasts to be heard.
It would also allow one (me) to stand in the doorway to see back and behind without risking looking through frosted or sun backlit windows.
It would be negligent of me not do everything necessary to see and hear.
If I was not permitted to leave my seat and stand at the door, I would refuse to cross that crossing.
(In reality, I'd cheat and get up and look, anyway.)
Maybe Mrs.Sommers wasn't driven to kill herself solely because of a broken heart but also because she too had some survivors guilt.
It seems to me that Mr.Sommers had the luck of a black cat, you know the one that your were told as a child growing up that if a black cat crosses your path it was bad luck. Unfortunately, twenty-five children and adults crossed paths with Mr. Sommers and lost their lives.That number is just so high. It is so hard to grasp. Mrs. Sommers ended up being number twenty-five. Maybe that was because she knew all those lives were lost, regardless of blame, and now that Mr.Sommers was gone she knew she had to carry that burden of knowing alone. It might have finally gotten to her. I don't mean to cause any pain here, or lay any blame at all to any of the accidents. It's really hard to grasp that number of lost lives.
My condolences to all of the families and friends of the families involved. Please know that by sharing your familie's lives you are teaching us about the history of that day and we will never forget it or your children. They will live forever in our memories also as we teach others about them. They are loved.
Posted by on February 14, 2007 07:34 PMThe issue today was as sad and touching as all the rest of the personal histories. I know, from living in LaSalle during my early years, that there was always a little tension between the farmers and the railroad. It was a fact of life, perhaps similar to the rancher-farmer wars in the Old West.
I also know that we were always hearing of train/auto (truck) crashes at crossings as I grew up. My personal feeling is that it comes down to, as I said once before, a different perspective literally. The way the world goes by at 50 - 70 miles an hour high up in a train engine is different from the way it appears lower on the ground as you're approaching at maybe five miles per hour in a car or truck.
The crossing was terrible--the angle. The weather was bad. Again, there is no use to rehash the trial. Somone else in an earlier post mentioned how sometimes you could hear the whistles for miles, and other times you just couldn't--something in the weather patterns perhaps.
The human fallout from the accident was enormous.
We all need to read, honor all those lives that were affected in our memories, and learn from them. We did already, in one sense. Even in the country now, railroad crossings are safer now, and school busses have more set rules about crossing railroad tracks.
My sympathy goes out to all the families and bus driver Mr. Harms. It's heart wrenchingI just finished ready the lastest installment chapter 20 about the train engineer's story. Am I the only one that does not believe his story . Did anyone after the accident look into this man's engineering record for all the fatal collisions he had at the throttle and now it comes to light he lost his life from another one of his collisions? Doesn't it seem odd that this man has so many of them in his career. Maybe he wasn't paying attention like he should have been, maybe he should have been going slower as well. No wonder many of his and the RR records could not be found by the author of these stories. I believe Mr. Harms and the children on the bus who have stated not hearing any whistle or seeing the train that day. Why didn't the community of Auburn/Greeley believe the ones who should actually know what happened; the surviving children and bus driver. The train engineer was covering his own butt for not blowing the horn and excessive speed by blaming the poor bus driver. Mr. Harms was in a state of extreme shock & distress and seemed confused (understandable). Its called post-traumatic stress syndrom! By reading the stories, that man cared a great deal about those children and it upsets me that most of the town didn't support him. I rode a school bus in the 1960's and I can still remember how noisey it was, we children were shouting to be heard above the defroster & heater. It was impossible to see out the frosted/frozen over windows. It was an "accident" plan & simple...no neglectence or wrong doing on the bus drivers part.
Lastly, thank you to all the families who were willing to talk about this tragedy in order for the rest of us to this history. I would like to hear more about Mr. Harms life since the accident.
Unlike many auto accidents, this was not a sudden occurance where another vehicle came unexpectedly from what could be any direction, where one may not have the time or skill or opportunity to quickly and correctly react.
There are only two directions from which a train can come.
Encountering two warning signs: (RXR) and X, one has ample opportunity to slow and prepare.
Also, there is usually at least a 10 second audible warning before a train arrives at a crossing.
As a bus driver, I have never found a non-signaled grade crossing that could not be handled safely.
Just STOP, LOOK, LISTEN.
This applies to any of us wanting to cross a track.
It is easier than a street intersection.
Poor Mr. Sommers seems to have been cursed. I remember the 1965 accident where he was killed.
As I recall, the driver of the gasoline tanker truck tried, in spite of the flashing signal lights, to drive around the crossarms which were down.
Unbelievably stupid.
RIP Mr. Sommers.
Posted by Flynn on February 14, 2007 05:57 PMI was reading the commentary and can not believe(hardly) hoe some can write about such a tradgedy and sound so cold. Obviously you were not there and your kids( if you have any) are still here.One reader even said it was "one car accident". WHAT? I am not from here and it touched me deeply. It was not just "one car accident", it was an awful train and bus "accident". And to the others that are so quick to judge, it is people like that , that make up the society of bullies and hatred. They feel like they could have done better or prevented tradgedy, or would have done things differently. Well, they will hopefully never have to know whether or not that is true.It is hard to say when panic or terror strikes us personally what our reactions will be. you know what they say, "Nothing is for sure but taxes and death".
Posted by angelia Morris on February 14, 2007 04:38 PMRailroads are a little more humane today regarding train crews involved in fatal accidents. Now, the crew may ask for relief, the railroad sending crew that take over the train. This didn't use to be the case.
Also, counseling is available.
I just finished reading all the postings on this site. This series has really been of great interest to me. I was born in Flint Michigan, a few years after the accident, in 1964. I moved to the Greeley area with my husband and children in 1993, and shortly after read in the tribune about the tragic day in 1961 that took so many innocent lives. This series really has been put together with great taste and explains things in greater detail for those of us with an interest in the history of Greeley. My heart goes out to all the families that have been touched by the losses that occured on that day. To Mary Brantner and family, I think you have expressed a tremendous amount of courage by reliving the tragedy through this series. You have an awesome family from what I gather from all your postings and the series. To all the other families involved, you too must have a lot of courage as well. Thank you all for sharing your stories with us. To the few that feel that their negative, useless comments are helping someone, you are being totally ridiculous with your antagonistic comments. I think you know who you are. This is a delicate subject for all who were involved and should be treated accordingly. Everyone has experienced some sort of tragedy in their lives, which is part of human nature, as sad as it is, and the people involved here should be treated with respect. Tim, the memorial is a wonderful idea and I will gladly be sending in a donation or dropping one by the bank. My prayers are with all involved.
Posted by JS on February 14, 2007 03:56 PMMary,
I am so sorry to hear someone had to add to your problems with a cruel phone call. Your comments and explanations have added so much to the story and illustrate to me how important it was that the RMN chose to do it.
Do take care of yourself and your family. Your effort here is appreciated very much.
I appeal to anyone who has negative feelings about this series to take them somewhere else. Reading any part of the newspaper is optional. While I certainly agree that all the media avoid important stories and issues, I do not see this as a waste of ink space at all. This site is a place and opportunity for those who were invovled and others to process the emotions, grieve and learn from the whole experience. We should all know that tragedies have the potential to help us become better people - at a great price. Better that we learn how to do that than miss the chance and never mitigate the pain to whatever extent possible.
One aspect that has surfaced and been menitioned a little, but could use a separate article is survivor guilt. I am familiar with it from caring for veterans and have become aware of how much it affects others in tragedies like this. It is an additional burden to the post traumatic stress disorder that the victims must also cope with.
As much as I would like for those who suffered to be left in peace, I also believe that too many people are convinced that just burying this kind of experience is a good thing. Although this is a necessary coping mechanism for the circumstances, it is not the only way to cope with the loss and pain. It is a part of coping that we need to respect and allow time for - even recurring times when NOT remembering is best for the individual.
Ideally, each person involved should get enough individual assessment to determine what kind of help will benefit them the most - not a forced treatment, but the most supportive for their healing process.
Not having that kind of support can turn some of the victims to very abberant behavior. Like making a threatening phone call to someone who has gone through a similar experience and has become known to the public. That is pure speculation but it is how this kind of tragedy can produce such long term effects that makes the series valuable.
Every tragedy, however small or large, affects our families, communities and society in ways that we tend not to see as our way of life becomes more complex. Taking the time to consider and discuss them helps us all grow.
Posted by Ginny in Wheat Ridge on February 14, 2007 03:06 PMLadies....
I heard from Kevin Vaughan this morning he said the people in the photo are from the Craven - Baxter families . He said he will up date the caption so it will say who they are.
Happy Valentines to all today .
I would like to extend my sincere sympathy to Mr. and Mrs. Heimbuck and Mrs. Paxton. There can be no greater sorrow for a parent than to lose a child, let alone your entire family. The grief you must have felt in the years that followed no one can even imagine. My thoughts and prayers are with you. Thank you for sharing a story that has caused you so much pain.
Posted by Kim on February 13, 2007 11:25 PMI just read Diana’s post 2/12. Thank you for sharing that story. I cannot imagine what it must have been like for the poor Paxton’s and Heimbuck’s. What a horrible thing for any parent to have their only children taken from them. No words can express my sympathy . God bless.
Posted by on February 13, 2007 10:52 PMI’m very thankful to be able to read this story. I wasn’t around in 1961, but I’m always very interested in local history. I started to read about everything that happened and it moved me so deeply into tears.
I have been riveted to each day’s story, watching the videos, seeing the pictures and following the maps. I even went to google earth to look up the site.
I hope to take a drive out there and just spent time with God and pray for the families that were effected.
And to Mary Brantner, you and your Mom are in my prayers. Your family and extended family have been through some rough times, especially after reading today’s chapter. I hope to meet you next Wednesday at the meeting. Thank you all, to the families that suffered through this, for your support in telling us your story. I think the papers are doing a good job tell it.
I look forward to seeing a memorial or marker of some sort to mark the event that occurred in that site. I will support it. Faith, hope, and Love! Will
Traci,
Ironically, I too was wondering who the people were in chapter 5, #7 photo were. They look familiar to me also. Initially, I didn't think much of it until you posted the question. Now, I am really curious myself. I think it's a photo of people at one of the funerals. And, I am wondering if it was at the funeral for my relatives.
Linda Alles, Cindy Dorn, and the Heimbuck two girls shared a funeral together. They all went to Saint Paul's Congregation. Linda was my aunt (my father's sister), and Cindy Dorn was a cousin. My family was good friends with the Heimbucks. And, they use to go out for dinner every year on the anniversary of the accident.
In regards to the photo, those people are not my immediate family. But I could have a blood relation. Although, I'm not sure. We'll see if Kathrine Brantner can identify them. If not, I'll ask my father. He might know since he was an adult at the time of the accident. He knew everyone around the Auburn area.
Posted by Felicia (Alles) Trecek on February 13, 2007 08:00 PMDear Tim,just a note to let you know we used to live next door to you in cave creek.We lived between you and Eric.Sure wish we'd have known about this,then.Perhaps We could have helped alittle.Our granddaughter still mentions her "best friend",your daughter.She misses her since we moved north of Pierce.Keep on doing what you're doing,this is an incredibly moving piece of history.It needed to be retold.I pray you will have healing and all the families involved!Take care and we'll be in touch,Love ,Rod and Lori
Posted by lori sarchet on February 13, 2007 06:08 PMThank you Mary for answering me, I am glad that the boys had the family there. I know that it was a personal question, but I know that I was not the only one wondering. You are a very wonderful woman to let us all in and ask the questions that come to our minds. My prayers are with your family and all the families affected.
Posted by Michelle Cline on February 13, 2007 05:21 PMTraci.....
I don't know but I will ask Mom tomarrow . She will be at my home for valentines lunch with her great grand babies. I will show it to her and ask , then get back to you.
J Stephen......
Please read chapter 12 again . It should answer your questions....
If not I will answer them for you .
I am the Baby of the 8 kids.
I would just like to say Thank you to,
Lonnie Bunting
F. L. Bunker
Bruce Gardner
Ramona Bywater
For you generous contributions to the Auburn Bus Memorial fund.
And to any one who would like to help to place a monument honoring the victims, at the accident site.
Contributions can be made in the name of the,
Auburn Bus Memorial fund.
C/O Compass Bank
3501 West 12 street
Greeley Colorado 80634
Or by contacting,
Timothy Geisick
4125 Saltgrass Lane
Evans CO 80620
(970) 371-9047
tim@lefthandcorner.com
I am wondering if possibly Mary Brantner or any family, survivors following this series could identify anyone in a photograph posted in Chapter 5. It's photo #7 of 9 shown in that chapter. In particular, the gentleman on the far right walking with the two women seems very familiar to me, for some reason.
I have to say, discussions within my family have really sparked on this. I'm so glad to read Mary is continuing to contribute and share information. Thanks a million for that!
Any help is greatly appreciated! Thanks again!
To Mary Brantner,
Are you the oldest child? Your mother has endured so much and appears to be such a strong, wonderful woman. Is your father still living? Also, does Bob still have contact with you and your other siblings? Is Bob and his oldest son still estranged or have they began communicating again? Like posted previously by someone else, thanks for sharing your story. I lost my mother to a terrible car accident that happened in front of our house when I was 11 days from my 8th birthday and watched the accident out our front picture window. It happened while her and a friend were backing out of our driveway. That happened in 1972. I still see the picture in my mind as clear as can be. I find the "crossing" story very interesting and feel sad for everyone involved.
Michelle Cline.....
My Nephews lived and stayed with family. Billy was in college in California , so he returned to school . He has just resently returnd home to stay . Both my sister Sue and brother Paul took turns keeping the boys. They all live farly close to eachother in Colo. Springs . They have had some problems as can be when you loose both parents . But over all they have been happy and are doing well . They are very close . It's fun to listen to them give each other a hard time . Cheryl was an only child so she loved being in our large family . She always said it was more fun to watch how we delt with each other and the jokes we'd play . She filled the empty spot left when we lost Kathy . She truely was my sister .
I just waant to thank all of the families that were involved or were close to those families who are posting here. I feel that it helps fill in the blanks that cannot be filled with questions by the reporter. The feeling that you put into your comments helps understand what it was like.
I have read a lot of things from people who have just read the story and I think that in the end that they are missing so much by not reading this.
I do have a question for Mary. What happened to the boys right after their dad's arrest? Where did they go to live?
Thank you again for letting us into this time of your life.
Correction to my comment from Robbie.
Kevin not Tim, thank you for 'The Crossing'. I was thinking about Mary's comment about her nephew Tim.
Tim,
Thank you for sharing 'The Crossing'. At first I thought 33 chapters may be too long. Now I don't think it will be enough. Everyday it's the first thing I find myself reading before reading anything else. Sunday's are too long now since the articles are not published and I have to wait until Monday to continue reading about this accident.
Mary,
Thank you for all of your comments. It's sad to read some of the anger and comments directed towards you. I happy you hung in there and didn't give up as you almost indicated. Sorry to hear all of this is taking a toll on you and your health. Please take care of yourself.
To everyone involved in this accident - victims, family, friends and other relatives- thank you for sharing your stories. God Bless all of you.
Robbie - Boulder, CO
Posted by Robbie on February 13, 2007 12:42 PMDear Mary-
Thank you for continuing to answer questions and provide supplemental information on this forum. Even though almost all of the forum’s readers have been compassionate and supportive, reliving the Brantner family’s heartbreak and losses in such a public way must be tremendously painful and difficult. The courage, grace and kindness that you demonstrate through your postings are truly inspiring.
The same applies to all who have shared the pain and happiness of their lives through the series. Thank you for this touching act of selfless generosity.
For each of you involved in the crossing tragedy and other incidents related to it, I hope that the publishing of this series can in some way bring comfort and healing. You are in the thoughts and prayers of many readers.
Posted by Bill Gosch on February 13, 2007 12:33 PMThe Walso Family.........
I have had a question asked about them . Linda was the oldest daughter of Maynard and Bernice Walso. They also had Gary born in 1960 and Karen born in 1962 . Gary was a baby at the time of the accident . So he had no memory of Linda .
Maynard also had a brush with death when a trench he was digging caved in . He was badly hurt . This was after the bus accident.
Bernice went on to continue the 4-h club changing it's name to Auborn 4-h . She was our leader until no kids where left to do 4-h .
They moved to Greeley a year or two after we did . Karen and Gary both went to Greeley schools and graduated from Greeley West. My brother Paul , Gary , Myself and Karen were all one year or close to it , behind each other in age.
Gary died by his own hand in the late 80's . Maynard and Bernice both passed of old age . Karen is here in Greeley . She has two wonderful kids, who are almost out of school themselves. Karen teaches school and does hair dressing . She sadly is the only member of her family left .
She and I have stayed in touch over the years . She has had a very happy life .
Cheryl was more to us then a sister-in-law . She was my best friend and was loyal to the whole family .None of us saw it comimg . And where heart broken. We had to support eachother through it all and protect me nephews . I don't understand what happened that day . My brother was never violent his whole life. I still have trouble with it . How could two people you love so much let things get so out of control. We all miss Cherly so much . She was a very special lady . I was closer to her then I was to my own brother . It has taken years for me to get to the point of some forgiveness . And that only came with my nephews encouragement , love and thier own strength . As the priest at church has told me it's not up to us to put final judgement on a person , it is up to God . And Bob is paying his time in prison and trying to help others in the prison to .
As for the boys, they are all grown up . And they are all together , happy and well adjusted. Michael is a firefighter , Bill and Brian both work hard . And all are gifted in crafts .
I find it so very sad that people have to be mean and cruel at all let alone about something that happened 45 years ago. This is also personal for me a member of my family was to be on that bus, but was not. I know it's very hard to not let these idiots get to you, but look at the kind of person who would do this, and you will find they are not worth wasting any time on. They only do these things because they like to cause trouble. I thank everyone who was there or involved all those years ago for letting me read about it as I was only 4 years old at the time so I really don't remember it. May God bless all the families, friends who still feel the pain. I for one hold you in the highest regards.
Posted by Sheryl on February 13, 2007 09:58 AMThanks Mary for posting, I appreciate it. Thanks to all of the survivors for posting. I'm sure it may not have been easy at times but to me it has greatly added to the humanity and reality of this story and made it more than a story. It's your life and you're all allowing us to enter it. After the accident your story continued and you've all been kind enough to share it with us.
Posted by on February 13, 2007 08:48 AMDear Mary and your entire family.
Once again, someone cannot look beyond their opportunity to criticize. Today must be a heartbreaking day once again for your family. From the information I have gleamed from this story, your brother snapped that day in 1992. I am not at all saying his haunting memories justified what he did. Nothing justifies taking another's life. What I am trying to say, is this part of the story shows how terrible tragedies, as happened at the crossing, are never forgotten. Your brother carries that today, as does all the lives touched on December 14, 1961. Only God has the job of judging us! And we know God is a just God and a forgiving God. Your brother, Bob is paying his dues.
Back when Timothy McVeigh was put to death in May of 1992, I grappled with this action taken by the government. Certainly he was one deserving death. I also knew, God is the one to call us home. As I was pondering this event, a song came to my mind. "Holy God, we Praise Thy Name", is a Catholic song from our era. You may recall that song. For those who do not, the refrain, which kept playing in my mind was, 'Infinite, thy vast domain, Ever lasting is thy reign.
What that song was telling me that day, was that God loves all of us, even the Timothy Mcveigh's of the world. God still loves your brother, Bob!
We don't always understand the plan God has for us. I wondered that when He took my Mother at age 43 in 1968. God had blessed Mother and Daddy with seven children. We ranged from 7 to 17 when she died.
Just one more personal item. When my sister Karen came out to visit me that Spring and I told her about the song, she replied. "Ann, that was Mother's favorite song." I now know, my Mother has been helping me all these years with the songs that play in my head during difficult times.
To all of the other families and friends of that terrible day, December 14, 1961, I pray for you every morning, every time I am in Church. I can not begin to imagine the sorrow and heartbreak each of you have felt. Each of you have dealt with your pain in various ways. Those who have contributed to this story, THANK YOU! As most of these postings indicate, you have touched many of us in positive ways. For those families, who did not, or could not share, that is okay. As another song goes, 'God is holding you in the palm of His hand.
One last item for Mary. I did not realize you are battling an illness of your own. Please know you are in God's plan. The Prayer of Saint Theresa says this best. Sorry, I don't know that one by heart. But it carries me through difficult times and I pray it may help you. Mary, thank you for the time you have given to these postings. You have helped the rest of us to understand more of the story that the RMN has printed. I know this also must be difficult for you. My God Bless and Keep you. As my father would say, "Your reward in heaven will be great."
To Duane, the bus driver. I cannot imagine the pain you have lived. From the brief snippets of the first chapter, your wife and daughter have also suffered immensely.
To all who have suffered loss, again my Prayers go out to you. Thank you for sharing your story.
May God Bless and Keep you All,
Annette
Posted by Annette on February 13, 2007 08:37 AMI should clafiry. What I meant by positive thoughts was not to cut down or belittle other who have a differing opinion. There is a lot of sad thoughts that go with this story, but to say some of the rude things that have been posted here are okay, well, I think a differing opinion can be posted without being mean.
The reason the Brantner family has been such a focus on these boards is only because Mary Brantner has been a frequent poster. I see nothing wrong with her sharing her point of view.
Why would you say this sight is for sharing memories and positive thoughts? This discussion board is for anyone to talk about the tragic event 45 years ago. There are many thoughts that come out of this story that are not positive. Do the two families of yesterday have a lot of positive things to say about this event? It doesn't seem like it to me. They lost their only children. Their wholes lives were taken from them. They have good memories of their daughters I am sure but what other positive thoughts do they have?
The stories in the RMN are very well done and informative. I have been reading them since day one and have been addicted since. But I do have some negative thoughts running through my head. I also have positive thoughts.
Duane Harms was found not guilty by a court of law. We have been told by many that we should not try him again. That would be double jeopardy.
Bob Brantner was found guilty by a court of law. He killed the mother of his children. That saddens me deeply. She had every right to continue living. The bus-train incident was an accident. Those lives were not taken on purpose. Cheryl lost her life due to a selfish, heartless act. That was no accident. I am not sure why today would be so hard for the Brantner family. My heart goes out to Cheryl's children.
It seems as though these postings are mostly about the Brantner family and not so much about the rest of the families involved. I wonder why that is? The RMN stories are good but these postings leave a lot to be desired.
The memorial is an excellent idea. It should have been there for 45 years already. Thanks Tim.
Posted by Meg on February 13, 2007 07:34 AMDear Mary,
May God bless you, your mother, your brothers, Jimmy, Robert and Paul, your sister Susie and heaven's angels: your dad, Johnny, Kathy, and Mark. I feel like I know you and yet I've never met you. You have touched my heart and soul. I feel a kindred spirit like attachment to you, as I too am the youngest of eight (3 girls, 5 boys) and I know the tremendous gift of growing up in a close-knit family and country setting (I grew up in Hudson - rural southern Weld County). I had never heard of this event before I read Chapter One of The Crossing. Now I've read the story every day and have read all the postings on this blog. I have been tempted many times to post and didn't, but I felt compelled to now. I was saddened to hear of your illness and I wish you God's strength and healing for you and for all of your family. I know tomorrow will be difficult for all of you and know that I will keep you close in thought and prayers.
As for the memorial: My family visited the site last weekend and felt so moved and wished there was a memorial, something that we could touch and feel and somehow channel our thoughts to the families and those who were lost. Now, thanks to your nephew Timothy, it'll be done. We will visit again and will be contributing to the Memorial Fund. We also plan on attending the event at the Union Colony Civic Center with the hopes of learning more about the series and hoping for the opportunity to be introduced to some of the family members.
To all the families affected by this event: I send my deepest condolences for your loss while admiring you for your courage and strengh, faith and love and for your support of the telling of this story - your story - your loved ones' story. I can only imagine the grief and utter sense of loss you felt and continue to feel every day.
The words below comforted my family when we unexpectedly lost our beloved father, husband, grandfather and great grandfather in 2005:
"We little knew that morning that God was going to call your name. In life we loved you dearly, in death we do the same. It broke our hearts to lose you, you did not go alone; for part of us went with you the day God called you home. You left us peaceful memories, your love is still our guide, and though we cannot see you, you are always by our side. Our family chain is broken and nothing seems the same, but as God calls us one by one, the chain will link again. "
God Bless you all!
Posted by Patricia Martinez and family on February 12, 2007 09:34 PMTimothy Geisick, I am proud of you. And it will not just be your own two hands erecting the memorial, it will be four. Add mine to the list. And my beautiful wife, Helen, adds hers also. Thank you Kevin Vaughn for creating this opportunity for good people to help each other in ways they never would have had otherwise. I hope to talk to, and possibly meet, more of you incredible people with hearts of love. My e-mail address is freeman2_6@yahoo.com for anyone who would like to communicate. Also, Duane, I have my wish fulfilled with this opportunity, after all these years, to say Hello to you, and I wish you the best. Sincerely, Smith Freeman
Posted by Smith Freeman on February 12, 2007 09:28 PMMr. Gift....I would like to meet you some day . Maybe at the museum night . I plan on attending with some family members .
Tomarrows chapter will be hard on me . So I don't know if I will read it or check the posts.
My health is not as good as I would wish . The doctors say no stress and I need to rest . I have Lupus and it affects my heart now.
My mom could use more prayers too . Her blood pressure is in the danger zone and I worry for her. I'm sure when you read it you will under stand the stress and pain it causes .
Thanks again for all the love , and friendship shown to us .
Dear Mary,
Regarding the spineless dolt who called you, I would call the police and place a trap on your line.
Too bad he lacks the intelligence and education (are those words too big for him to understand?) to make his probably worthless points here.
Bring it on, coward.
A memorial is for the living, a place where you go to remember those who are lost by a tragedy. The Viet Nam Memorial wall, The W.W.II Memorial, The Holocaust Memorial Museum, The Kennedy Memorial, Alfred P. Murrah Memorial (Oklahoma City) in part that memorial says, “We come here to Remember those who were killed, Those who survived and those changed forever, May this memorial offer Comfort, Strength, Peace, hope and serenity” The 9-11 memorial, and the list goes on.
I am so glad these memorials are there to honor all involved, and least we forget
what they represent. I have visited these sites and was very moved by each of them.
The school being named East Memorial School was a wonderful thing to do, but children who have and are attending the school had no idea where the name came from. That in it’s self is a shame. The plaque inside the school, who sees it? A scholarship, 15 years from now those who receive it, I doubt would know what it represents. Mary Branter said, The scholarship idea has been done before and turned down (post 2-10-1:46pm)
Tim, Thank you for the monument idea and all the ground work you have done. You have so many people supporting you. Keep it going. And Mary it will be OK.
God Bless you, Lynda
PS: I'm also praying for the one's that are writing such hateful things, and the phone call. I hope you will have peace in your life. Hate and being hateful will destroy you.
Posted by lynda on February 12, 2007 07:21 PMMary recieved threatening phone calls?!?! That person should be ashamed of themselves! This is a time of healing - regardless of the fact it's been 45 years!
This sight is for sharing memories and positive comments about The Crossing. You can disagree with someone and still use polite words to disagree .
Remember...If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all!
God's Blessings to all the families involved.
We need to stop and think about today's story, what it should mean to each of us.
I wrapped gifts for the new grandbabies of some of my relatives today. I also did some tasks to prepare for a reception I'm giving my son and his new bride. We were able to attend the joyful celebration of his wedding with his wife's relatives in Istanbul, where she grew up, last summer. Now I get to show her off to my relatives.
I can't imagine how it would hurt never to tease the future sons-in-law, not to plan the wedding, or the baby showers. I can only thank the Heimbucks and Mrs. Paxton for sharing today--to keep me grateful and humble for what I have.
Our family moved into the Paxtons" house, and I remember my mother taking me aside as we were doing housecleaning to tell me that the white telephone they had left had been something Marilyn had wanted. They made her promise to keep it clean because it would show smudges--especially on a farm--far more than the black phones that were common then.
I always tried to remind myself then, and for the rest of my life, that I was lucky to be doing such a simple task. I always hoped then that somehow Marilyn knew I was keeping her promise.
I also remember that my confirmation class was missing someone in April when we finally took our first communion. That was special for us; but for the girls it may have been more special. That was the day, in those times, that girls finally got to wear heals--only 2-inch ones, though--and nylons. Now I know how Kathy would have liked that. I had only met her a few times before she died.
I didn't know the two little girls or the parents until today's story gave me a glimpse into who they were and are. Again, it is a privilege we all share to be able to peek into these lives. Please stop to know how lucky you are today.
And P.S.
When I lived there I never crossed those tracks without wondering why there wasn't a sign or plaque. I will send a donation. Thank you, Tim.
Posted by Diana on February 12, 2007 05:52 PMMy grandparents moved from Ault to Evans in the late 70's. They lived on WCR 52. In the late 80's, early 90's I lived with them for my first couple of years while attending UNC. I drove over those RR tracks everday, not knowing what had occurred there. I remember driving by a house at the end of the road, before turning west onto the paved road to go into town, and being told it was a former school. Until reading this series, I was never aware of the history that I was passing by everyday. I didn't even realize how close I was to all of this until I read the posts and found the information with the location of the accident. I am now curious if the home my grandparents lived in may have belonged to one of the families invloved in the accident. Their house was at the "Y" on 52 and 45. It sat right on the angle there. Red brick ranch style farm house. If anybody knows, it would be interesting to find out. Feel free to email me (deborahmarino@comcast.net)
I am captivated by this story. Even more so now, since I am able to visualize the location and feel some type of connection. My thoughts and prayers go out to all of the families and Mr. Harms. They are a true testament to faith and forgiveness.
Posted by Deborah on February 12, 2007 05:49 PMThis Charter 18 made me very upset and also move again. How these two families had someone to go to and talk about there children, each of them understood how they feel about losing two children all at a blink of an eye. I am so glad they had each other. God Bless Them
ANYONE who spiels forth vehement and/or degrading annotations ought to look in the mirror. The gospel of Matthew 12:34 reads, "...for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh." If I want to know what someone is like, I listen to their words because they communicate more than the explicit words they speak.
Christ also said in Matthew 12:36: "And I say to you that for EVERY IDLE WORD men speak, they shall give an account of it in the day of judgement." So; no matter if you post your name or not, you'll be held accountable for your every word.
When someone speaks/writes demoralizing and disreputable words against another for an alleged violation of human ethics and decency, they too are in violation. It's a perfect example of HYPOCRISY. I recommend that you don't try and pluck the splinter out of the eye of someone else when you obviously have a big 2x4 hanging in your own. Negative insinuations and sarcastic remarks are a part of the 2x4. The 2x4's are not very attractive and are repugnant.
And, to those of you that this applies: please quit assuming and imputing negative motives upon others just because they may disagree with your own thoughts and/or point of view. When someone puts forth an idea (any idea for anything), there are always some people that will disagree with it for reasons of their own. That's just the way it is. Don't become bent out of shape because of it. It's not worth the time and mental/emotional energy. Be happy that others have differing opinions and that we're not all a bunch of yellow #2 pencils scratching on the same piece of paper.
Posted by Felicia (Alles) Trecek on February 12, 2007 04:57 PMMary,
Hold your head up, don't let these idiots get to you. I am all in favor of a memorial and have often said in the past that I couldn't figure out why there was none. I think it's a wonderful idea........my donation is coming and thanks Tim for taking on this project. You are a wonderful and loving family. Hold tight to each other.
If we all ignore the "idiots" they won't be getting the attention they seem to need.......let's ignore them.
Posted by on February 12, 2007 04:13 PMThis has gone far enough people . I just a a treatning phone call and this is out of hand.
You are making this too personal . And I have had enough.
I wish to thank all of you who have wished my family well and thank you for the prayers . And please keep us in your prayers. May God bless you and keep you safe.
Maybe ghost writer and dr. tray are one in the same and should go away . SInce ms.brantner did not attack anyone .
Posted by on February 12, 2007 03:31 PMThank You ,Tim.
Posted by Aleta Craven on February 12, 2007 03:25 PMI guess Ms. Brantner is the only one who can post here, since her opinions are the only “right” ones. Oh I feel the love. How typical for someone to preach love and kindness and then attack the first person who doesn’t agree with them. The only attack's are the one's you are posting.
Posted by Ghost Writer on February 12, 2007 03:11 PMMs. Brantner,
Don't let " Dr.Tray " upset you with his comments. I wouldn't give this guy credence on anything he has to say. He is not listed as an active or inactive licensed physician in the State of Colorado, nor as a Physiologist... Veterinarian... or any field that would require "patients". I sense he is a person who wants attention by posting offending comments and acting like he is an intellect- sad huh.
I must add - this is a profound chapter in Colorado history and I think a lasting memorial is a wonderful idea for all of Greeley and Colorado.
Mr. Gift
It is going to be simple and tastefully done . We are farm folk and don't go in for big showy or expensive . My nephew just wants to put a simple sphere like the shape of the Washington monument . No more then 6 ft. high.
Growing up on a farm you could not spend any money on such things back then. You were lucky to have enough to keep the family feed and farms running.
Maybe if enough money can be raised , Tim and the rest of you could do both the memorial and a scholarship . The memorial , Tim says should only be around 6,000 . And extra could go to a scholarship in the Greely school district. That might make everyone happy.
Dr.Tray...
I do not like people attacking my nephew Tim. He is a good and kind person who is trying to do the right thing . And his Mom is loosing the fight with cancer . She will soon be with our other brothers and sister . We are trying to cherish our days with her as they are few. Tim is doing something that will help heal old hurts before he looses his mom. It will help her as it will help other famlies . You have no idea of the pain our family has gone through then or now. We spend as much time together as we can. There are three of us who have "terminal" illnesses . My mom has to deal with the fact that three more of her children will soon be gone . Out of eight children she will be left with only two. It hurts her to know there is nothing anyone can do to change it . My mom has also had breast cancer and survived it. She is a strong and caring person but at times even she askes God why . Tim is right in doing the memorial....and I'm not doing a personal attact on you. I just want you to be quiet and leave him and the others alone. Let them do what needs doing .
If those of you leaving hateful , negative notes here do not like the story of the crossing . Please stop reading it and go do something else . Those of you getting something from it ....I truely hope you have a good and possitive reaction from it . It's not a waste of paper if it helps others learn and grow . I hope you show family and friends the love and care you have for them . Be a kinder person to the ones who need it , as in Mr Gift , Dr. Tray and the others who seem to need a little more love and caring in their own lives . For you see I'm one of the three in our family.
Please ignore the ignoramuses. Without encouragement, they give up.
There is no such person as Jack Tray, anyway. It's some sort of device used with car jacks. This idiot it just "jacking" with us.
Every posting site attracts at least one. Ignore it.
Posted by on February 12, 2007 01:47 PMThank you for answering that the memorial is accessible without requiring or encouraging trespassing on RR property.
(Trespassers were killed viewing Robert Kennedy's funeral train.)
Though I deserve no say in the matter, a modest dignifed memorial would be respectful and welcome.
A greater living memorial in the form of a continuing scholorship is better.
I favor a Columbine memorial, but am disappointed how much money is being spent on it.
I'd rather that huge sum create a grove of magnificent trees, buy an MRI and go torwards more scholarships.
Ms Brantner
Sorry you had to get into the personal attack business. My bedside manner, if it is of any concern to you, is highly respected by my patients. Closed minds that do not listen do foolish things. Proceed as you like. I respect all of your ideas if you can not respect others in your displays of circumlocution then I will pray for all of you.
Regards
Dr. Jack tray
A.J.
To answer your question. The tree was planted some where in front of the school on the 30 th. anniversary . The staff decided to use that date to answer the questions of parents and students as to the name of the school. The staff also put a wreath at the site of the crash . It was a very nice thought.
But no one in the families knew of the tree or anything else . We learned of it as did every one else , the Greeley Tribune did a story.
Seems some of the parents where trying at the time to change the name of the school .
Wow, I can relate to the parents of these 4 beautiful girls lost that tragic day. I too lost a daughter 2 years ago at the hands of a drunk driver in a horrific car accident. There is no "closure" after you lose a child. I read with tears Chapter 18 understanding very well their pain and struggle they face everyday. They, as I do, have beautiful memories of their daughters. That is what keeps me going everyday. Know that you are in my prayers.
Becky Archuleta
archie.memory-of.com
Wow, I can relate to the parents of these 4 beautiful girls lost that tragic day. I too lost a daughter 2 years ago at the hands of a drunk driver in a horrific car accident. There is no "closure" after you lose a child. I read with tears Chapter 18 understanding very well their pain and struggle they face everyday. They, as I do, have beautiful memories of their daughters. That is what keeps me going everyday. Know that you are in my prayers.
Becky Archuleta
archie.memory-of.com
To Hillary and (8:22AM) Anonymous.
You Both have a problem it is called hurtful and hateful!!
this is what is wrong with the world we live in..hurting & being HATEFUL to others!!!
I pray to God that he forgives you both, for your comments. Once words are out of your mouth it's like throwing a rock in the lake, it has a ripple effect and and you can never take it back. I'm so sad for both of you. lg
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To the poster on 2/12/07 at 8:22: Anonymous
The only monumental waste of paper that I am aware of is the paper your birth certificate was printed on. Too bad your mother wasn’t one of those murdering pro-choice babes. What's your pick for president? Biden? Clinton? Obama? Nice candidates looser.
Posted by Hillary Lewinsky on February 12, 2007 08:32 AM
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Only 15 chapters to go in this monumental waste of paper, and 697 days until we are rid of President Antichrist.
Hang in there, sane people.
Posted by on February 12, 2007 08:22 AM
Each persons story is now a lifetime and with every word I read I wonder, how can 33 chapters be enough to cover 45 year of life?
As a mother of two, I am reading my deepest fears and seeing the example of survival needed to continue---how can anything be more devastating than the death of your child??? There is nothing more vulnerable than to be a parent and love someone so much.
With tears in my eyes and on my heart, I hold much respect for the parents, community and families that experienced December 1961 and 45 years later, the pain is still felt by those families and now, a larger community that still cares about these children.
These stories matter to me and I applaud the short 33 chapters.
To the poster on 2/12/07 at 8:22: The only monumental waste of paper that I am aware of is the paper your birth certificate was printed on. Too bad your mother wasn’t one of those murdering pro-choice babes. What's your pick for president? Biden? Clinton? Obama? Nice candidates looser.
Posted by Hillary Lewinsky on February 12, 2007 08:32 AMOnly 15 chapters to go in this monumental waste of paper, and 697 days until we are rid of President Antichrist.
Hang in there, sane people.
Posted by on February 12, 2007 08:22 AMWhen placing the marker, could also make a link to a virtual marker and have a pointer put into Google Maps?
Posted by annon on February 12, 2007 08:19 AMI don't live in Colorado. I don't know any of the people in this documentary. I just came upon the story online. I have been touched by the words, videos and the pictures. I plan on donating to this memorial. I plan on finding it in one day. I plan on saying a prayer for everyone at the site. Why? Because this story has made me step back, slow down and treasure my time with family. The memorial at the accident site is good idea. Thank you.
Posted by Christopher on February 12, 2007 08:10 AMThe Crossing is such a beautiful tribute to all of those involved in the tragedy of December 1961. To everyone involved I say thank you. It has answered so many questions that many people have had. Tim, congratulations for taking the bull by the horns and taking the first steps to preserve the memory of so many loved ones with a memorial.
My heart goes out to all of the families and this story helps to show what a small world this really is...when talking about it there are so many stories that come up that relates to each family and yourself or someone in your family that you never knew about. My husband was in Bob Bratner's wedding, my mother knew the Paxton's and their daughters in Nunn (and was fearful even several years later when I began riding a rural bus) and I met the Heimbucks when we first moved across the road from them when we started farming. The first person to welcome us was Betty Heimbuck and a nicer couple could never be found. How they continued to go on after losing two precious girls was always on my mind, (and still is) especially when they watched and cared for my two young boys as they grew up and played right across the road everyday.
Such a sad situation for a small community, or any size community for that matter when people care about each other as this community does.
May everyone's life be blessed by this series and help all to heal and remember those involved with a memorial. Please send a donation so that this memorial may be a truly beautiful memory for all involved.
Posted by Laura on February 12, 2007 03:05 AMIn researching history of the American West, I have visited many varied and some quite obscure memorial markers. In every case, it has been an awesome moment. To stop and think that many years ago someone cared enough to put a permanent marker in rememberance, and it even often times feels like there is a unique presence there. You get a feeling for what happened that you can never get from pictures, plaques, museums or any other off site rememberance.
Yes, certainly, put up a memorial marker. It says, here stands proof that these lives were remembered.
Posted by Judy on February 12, 2007 01:27 AMSome people just don't get "IT"........
That's not to say they never could. But it seems you're either born with "IT" or as you grow you learn to acquire more of "IT" by giving "IT" away and receiving "IT".
"IT" can be defined many ways. You decide what "IT" means to you.
To some "IT" might be love, empathy, understanding, concern or even the need to put others and their feelings first before your own.
Only you can figure out for yourself what "IT" truly means and be honest, do you get "IT?"
As for the memorial......... why shouldn't the surviving "children" be able to go to their "Crossing" and see that they will never stand there alone again. That all of us that get "IT" will be there with them, always, if not in their presence, we will always be there in our hearts. Why shouldn't they be able to see the names of their siblings, realitives and childhood friends and be able to remember and reflect about them. Why shouldn't the parents of all the children have a place to go to for the same reasons. This memorial is for ALL of the survivors. It's for all of the grandkids and great grandkids that are learning about this horrific tragedy that happened to their realitives. Some day they will probably go to The Crossing and how nice it would be for them to see a beautiful memorial and know that it is there because so many people cared enough about their
realitive to help put it there. How sad that The Crossing hasn't had a sign of all the Love that has been shared at the site up til now. For the parents that have felt alone, and gone there alone to reflect, hopefully in the future you will see just how much everyone cares. We all share your sorrow and we are so grateful that you all opened up and let us into your lives. Your children deserve this and thank you for letting us do it.
To all of you that get "IT" I thank you.
I also thank you for joining together to help make the memorial a reality and not just a dream.
Thank you Tim for stepping up, it was a big first step. We are all here
to walk with you.
Dear Mr. Gift...What an unfortunate destiny of fate that your messages dishonor your name of "Gift". It was with intention that I didn't say anything for the past week while I watched you spew your venom and insensitivy and then hear of your absolute ability to have avoided the accident. I have heard everyone respond to your questions and messages and have been waiting to see if their responses were generally supportive or critical of my interpretation of you...
While your posts are allowed here, your comments are categorically recognized as being worthless, empty, cold, lacking knowledge, and full of self-serving platitudes that you would have saved our children, friends, and playmates. You lunacy isn't worth the time that you waste with your messages that aren't appreciated by most of us.
I remember reading a story in the Greeley paper that the students at East Memorial (within the last year or two) Planted a tree (I think and Oak Tree) in front of the school in honor of the children lost that day... any one else remember this????
Posted by A.J. on February 11, 2007 09:22 PMFor every action there is a reaction. I don't think some of these post deserve a response. I think thats what they want is to make people angry .... seems to be working......
Posted by Jennifer B. on February 11, 2007 09:02 PMMy heartfelt sympathies are with the Ford family. The dignity and love they have shown for the memory of Jimmy is the definition of courage. Let us not forget that so many families suffered that day an unbelievable sorrow. However, after reflection on the heartbreak of forty-five years ago one must ask the question, “What were we supposed to learn from this tragedy?” I think Mrs. Ford, Bruce and Glen have shown us through their actions that we must keep the memories alive and honor those who have passed by doing daily random acts of kindness pushing us past the grief and sorrow.
Posted by Michelle on February 11, 2007 08:48 PMI have found these stories very interesting. I was raised in Greeley and was about 8 when the accident happened. I know one of the survivors, Debbie Stromberger. She went to the same church as I. I hope there is more mention of her.
I was too young to really understand the whole story of what happened. It seems to me that this whole series can be quite healing for everyone, if you will just let it. The story really needed to be told, even for the people directly effected.
I remember riding buses after the accident and remember having an aid with the driver who always walked across the tracks before the bus. In 1964 there were several new schools built in Greeley, East Memorial being one of them. I never knew the reason behind the name.
We all wondered what became of Mr. Harms. I think we should all be thankful that he was able to raise above it all and live a productive life. What happened to him could have happened to any of us.
Posted by Dave Stroman on February 11, 2007 08:01 PMAt the time of the accident I was 21 with a 7 month old baby and lived in Denver. I do not remember this accident. It is beyond my comprehension how you all managed to survive such grief. I cannot imagine losing a child under such circumstances. I shed tears each day as I read the crossings. Thank you all for sharing this story and your personal feelings with us. I was glad to hear that Mr. Harms was able to live a quiet life. It seems he truly cared about these children and should not be carry any blame for this tragic accident. He was doing his duty. May god bless you all.
Posted by Portia on February 11, 2007 06:24 PMMr. Gift...........
You can not visit the school. It is totally inaccessible . New safety rules make it so no one can get into the school to see the plaques. For one thing the kids are there to learn and it would be to disruptive to have people walking though . Security won't let you in to any school in Greeley without permission from the office. Ever since this fall and the school shooting .
The site for the memorial is right next to the road and where the crossing was . It's not in the middle of now where .
I wonder Mr. Gift do you also think that the Columbine memorial is a waste of time? Or the memorial at the site in New York city ? How about all the war memorials all over the country ? They are built to help people remember the sacrifices people have made . They help heal those left behind . But most important they help others to NOT Forget . If we do not learn from our history we are doomed to repeat it . And I pray to God this part of history is never repeated.
The " Crossing " is a story of people and how Love , Caring , Faith and strength got them through the worst time you could ever think of .
What I wish you would do is try to make your life better . Not argue over something like a memorial . Go make a new friend . Show people you care . Do something nice for some one . Love your families more.......tell them how important they are. Smile more at people you meet. Make a differance.....be someone that people can think of with happy memories . What will people say of you when you are gone ?
Be the kind of person that everyone wants to be around . Happy , caring , loving , but most of all considerate of everyones feelings .
First of all, thank you Linda.
And to Mr. Gift and everyone who doses not seem to get this……..
The Monument will be on PRIVATE LAND! Outside the RR Right of way, and not on County Right of Way. I’m a Land Surveyor I think I know the difference.
It will be feet from the crash site. On Lonnie Bunting’s Place. Theirs all ready an existing turn out from Rd 43 at the location.
To get from your car to the monument will be about a 10 foot walk. It’s not out in the middle of a field.
And as far as a IMMEDIATE family member who dose not wish to have their child included, I will respect that.
However, I can’t imagine why any one would not wish to have their love one honored.
And so it dose not get lost way down the list I’ll repost the letter I wrote to Mr. Vaughan
Thanks to everyone who is helping with the fund.
Tim
Mr. Vaughan,
Hello Sir,
My Name is Timothy Geisick.
You might recognize that name from your story “ The Crossing” My Cousin Randy was one of the survivors that day. However My Aunt and Uncle, Kathy and Mark Brantner were not so lucky.
My Mother, Susie Brantner is the oldest Daughter of Joe and Katherine Brantner.
I would like to thank you so much for doing this story; Which is not something you might hear from the rest of my Family. As you know, remembering that horrible day is so painful for them.
I was born four years after the accident so I virtually knew nothing about what happened that day. . It’s not something we talked about ever. It was just too painful. The mere mention of the wreck sends my Grandmother and Mother, understandably into sobbing tears. So I simply do not ask, in fear of hurting them.
Your story has helped me understand, what really happened that day, However there’s still something
I can’t understand, why is there nothing to mark the place where it happened, no Memorial, not even a Cross. Nothing! After 45 years, Nothing!
I can understand it, being too hard for the families of the Children,
However as a community we should remember all of the children. And what happened that cold day.
I’ve been wondering for a few years now, why no one has done anything at the site of the crash.
I decided to stop wondering and start doing!
I have started a Memorial fund to erect a Monument to honor the victims of the crash.
Lonnie Bunting has graciously agreed to let the monument be place it on his land adjacent to the Rail Road right of way, on the old Bindel Farm. Lonnie also pledged the first donation of $250.00
I’m hopping to raise about six or seven thousand dollars to place a six and a half foot spire, much like the shape of the Washington monument with a brief paragraph about the wreck and all the names and ages of the children who died, inscribed.
I’m also hoping you might be able to include this in your story , to help raise the funds needed to make this happen. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
I have opened a memorial Account with Compass bank in Greeley. 3501 West 12th St. Greeley Colorado 80634
Donations can be made in the name of the Auburn Bus Memorial Fund or ABM fund. At the Greeley branch.
At any Compass bank, donations can be made to the same fund name care of Timothy Geisick.
Or by contacting Timothy Geisick 4125 Saltgrass Lane Evans CO 80620 (970) 371-9047
Thank you for your time and consideration, please feel free to call with any questions or comments
Tim
Robert Gift
I have sat back and read all your post and finally I have come to the end of my rope.
You sir have NO right to say that a memorial should not be put up at the site, only the family and friends of the beloved children on the bus have the right to say what should or should not be put up in honor to their memorys.
From the start of this you have down graded this series and now the memorial, who are you to think you can run this whole world when you have no personal interest in this.
Do I have a personal interest Yes I do, I live in the area, have family members that I went to school with that were either in the crash or had brothers or sisters or both in the crash so I feel you need to keep your trap shut and leave this alone. IMHO
In 1961 we lived life alittle different, we didn't put up a maker at the site of an accident which is done now days, I did it for my late husband and I see them all the time, so now is the time that some kind of marker is put up for all these familys and friends. EM school was not built for a memorial it just has a memorial in the office that no one sees anymore.
I stand behind this idea and have emailed Tim and informed him I will help him anyway I can. I am proud of him for getting the permission to put it up and will help out with it.
Friends:
The real and true memorial for remembering these young lives taken too soon would be for all of us to show: kindness, respect, and caring for our fellow human beings of this planet at this time. We all must live for today; that is why it is called the "present." Stop the bickering! Pray for world peace.
N.G.
East Memorial School is a wonderful tribute to the children.
An inaccessible memorial at the collision site is unnecessary.
Would it now be in a field since the roadway has been moved? Also, it is illegal to trespass on railroad property to place or visit such a memorial.
The scholorship idea is best.
A friend of my told me about this story of the bus crash on Dec 14, 1961 that the Greeley Tribune was writing about. I started reading this story on the internet and then read this story for the beginning until now. I have been moved and saddened for all the parents and brothers and sisters who have lost sibling, child or children. I could never a imagine what it felt like to lose a child and I hope I never will. I can’t wait to read more of this story. God bless everyone.
Posted by Desiree on February 10, 2007 08:22 PMPerspective on the UP engineers that came to mind after I posted my first comment. The railroads had contributed significantly to the standardization of time in America almost a century before the crash, and their tradition of being 'on time' was a huge part of train service.
This adds to the potential for looking at what causes people to suspend some aspect of their thinking. Not necessarily to the company, but to their fellow workers. Engineers took great pride in being on time and all of us are glad when we can stay on schedule thanks to someone else's meticulous work.
Up to a point. Any job, line of work, business, etc. needs to be willing to question and suspend - permanently or temporarily- some hard rules or traditions that are USUALLY beneficial to them.
Posted by Ginny in Wheat Ridge on February 10, 2007 08:13 PMI agree with you Tony 100 percent about the post Alice wrote.... I think some are posting inappropreate comments just to get a reaction.
Posted by Tom on February 10, 2007 08:05 PMI ran across this story at work and got online to read more. The tone and content have been very good and I'm a little surprised at the idea that it should not be 'rehashed' or that so much should be written.
My son was a senior at Green Mountain High School in April of '99. He was a jock, preparing to go to college, who spent a lot of time in the library and wore his letter jacket frequently. His name is Daniel, his sister's name is Lauren. The Columbine tragedy hit many of us who were close hard, even if not involved directly. Subsequently, as a health care worker, one of my nurses was heavily involved in the care of a number of the injured.
I look at the difference in the way the communities reacted and the help that was offered the families in these two situations and am very glad RMN chose to do this series. Lest anyone think the grief counseling that is now offered to the victims, families and even other children at the schools these days is over the top or unnecessary; the comments by many who were relatives, school friends, etc. from the bus accident reinforce how that kind of help is very necessary.
I am hoping the engineers on the UP train also receive some follow up in this series. The excess speed in an area where they knew there were crossings, with one at a bad angle, does not sit well with me. Even if you have a right of way, you have the responsibility to drive safely and be prepared for someone who is at a disadvantage. The 63 inches the state trooper determined as the difference between life and death for those kids makes me wonder if Harms would have had time to get the end of the bus that remaining 5'3", had the train been going 25 miles an hour.
This is not so much to do anything about this accident, but to raise the awareness of those who have jobs where their attention to safety is not just 'part of the job' or 'stupid government interference'. It is human decency. Regardless of nature, God or whatever, we all have the opportunity to be looking out for the preventable and taking the time to avoid adding to the probabilities. It does not strike me that Harms failed to do his part that day.
Posted by Ginny in Wheat Ridge on February 10, 2007 07:48 PMPeggy Meyers........
I remember well the Hoecher family . Mildred and my Mom where best friends. She was always at our house at christmas making candy and cookies with Mom. She was a special person. I remember when I broke my foot she was the first person to come help me . And kept me laughing by telling me stories and jokes all the way to the doctors office. Both mom and I truely miss her. My divinity candy just isn't as good as her's was. They where great friends and neighbors . One of the great pleasures of growing up out there where people like them. I have a lot of wonderful memories from childhood with all these families. I wish all kids could of had the childhood we had out there.
Thank you, Timothy Geisick, Your idea of a permanent memorial to the children killed in the bus accident is wonderful and should have been done a long time ago. This story has brought back so many memories. I had three cousins on the bus, Jackie survived, but Elaine and Juleen did not. I was a junior at Greeley High School and remember that morning as if it was yesterday. My grandma and grandpa Hoecher lived just down the road west from my Aunt and Uncle. I remember so many family gatherings at my grandparents home when my aunts and uncles would take out their guitars and grandpa would play his fiddle and will all sang songs, was a wonderful time. My uncle Don was a great teaser of all the girls, but we loved every minute of it. I would spend my summers with my grandparents and I remember going to the womans club with my grandmother. I remember several of the families that lived in the community and I will cherish my memories for ever. Thank you for this series and God Bless you all.
Posted by Peggy Meyers on February 10, 2007 04:59 PMI like the idea of erecting a monument at the actual accident site. Having a school named "memorial" was a noble gesture, but an actual on-the-site memorial is more poignant and focused, IMO.
I don't get to Greeley often (since the Broncos moved their training camp to Dove Valley), but I look forward to visiting the site at some future time.
Tim, I salute you for taking on such a task, and will be sending a check to the ABM fund.
The scholarship idea has been done before and turned down . The problem is the kid getting the scholarship would not care why it is there.If that is what Dr.Tray wants to do then by all means let him start one. I'm sure being a doctor he can but up as much money as it takes to set it up. And it takes a lot to start one. And East Memorial was given that name but you ask people why and they can't tell you . The plaques are inside the school by the office . And you can't just go in and look at them . The new security rules in the schools won't permit it . And besides the site will be lost if not marked because everyone who knew where it was is getting old and will pass soon. The site is a part of our history that we all pray will never happen again. It should of had a marker a long time ago . It will help the community out there to remember the families that built up the farms . All the sacrifices and hard work and heart ache .
As for Dr. Tray.....I'm not sure what you are a doctor of but you are a very cold person . Your bed side manner must really stink . And if your are a psychiartrist....you should know better.This is for healing the people hurt by this accident and help others remember. Maybe New York shouln't but one up for Sept. 11 th people , just start a scholarship instead. So that history can be forgotten and lost. It's for healing and remembering...scholarships don't do that. Afer a few years no one remembers why or who started it. And besides the school is 42 years old. It won't last forever. It will be torn down and then there won't be anything to remind people. School buildings only last so long .They are out dated or to small they get replaced . My nephew is doing the right thing . And all the families are greatful and happy with the idea. I hope he can get it done and people will never forget the cold day in Dec. of 1961 . I'm proud of him and his plans. Thank you Tim....
In this case, I think those affected most by the accident know best.
Several of my classmates were killed in the 1971 Gunnison School Bus wreck on Monarch Pass on their way to play a football game. I remember that the Salida student council wanted to erect a memorial on the accident site at Garfield, but at the time, people in Gunnison didn't want it - it still hurt too much.
They did erect a very nice and dignafied memorial to the victems at the cemetary where they were burried. Twenty-five years later, several of the guys who survived the accident formed an association and started a scholarship fund, giving out two a year to GHS students.
The accident site is entitled to a permanent memorial marker commemorating all involved. If we looked at all memorial plaques, statues, walls or other symbols memorializing lost souls with thoughts that it's makes more sense to donate the money to a "cause"- these wouldn't exist. When I first began reading this outstanding documentary- I wondered why there wasn't a marker for the children at the crossing- Now it will happen. I plan on donating. Thank you Tim.
Posted by Chris on February 10, 2007 11:48 AMDear Dr. Jack Tray,
Gosh what was I thinking? From now on I’ll call you and ask you before I do anything!
Who asked you? Did I come knocking on your door with my tin cup? NO!
If you don’t want to help , simple, don’t.
Mind your own biz….. And don’t tell me what I, or anybody else needs.
There will be a monument at sight of the crash, if I have to build it with my own two hands.
Posted by Timothy Geisick on February 10, 2007 11:22 AMIt is an interesting observation Dr. Tray proposes. Maybe a perpetual scholarship fund for a graduate of a Greeley area high school is a viable alternative. It could provide someone with an opportunity that was denied the 20 victims by this tragedy. My opinion is that it would be a "living" testimonial to the young victims as compared to a plaque, monument, or statue which would have less "life".
Posted by Anthony on February 10, 2007 10:58 AMDr. Tray,
Your points are somewhat valid, but your delivery was cold and callous. Those that have died won't be comforted by a memorial, but those left behind will. Try to show a little sensitivety!
Posted by Jody on February 10, 2007 10:43 AMOn the memorial there is already one. East Memorial School. What a waste of time and money to do another one. Use the time and money to help kids still in this hard world and do that as a memorial to the victims. The children that died on that day have got their eternal reward and peace and have no need for another memorial.
Posted by Dr. Jack Tray on February 10, 2007 10:00 AMDuane Harms is a gem of a man.....a good soul. I am glad he found some peace. God bless him.
Posted by Shell on February 10, 2007 08:29 AMLinda-Thank you for the link to the download. You were right. I was missing Java. I appreciate the help.
Timothy, Thanks for picking up the ball and running with it! I know there are other readers out there that had this wish as your aunt Mary said, and it was meant to be. You knew who to contact and now everything will fall into place. This story was meant to be told. All the children never to be forgotton and all the families thought of and prayed for. My donation is on it's way. Thank you and God Bless.
Posted by Rose on February 9, 2007 11:33 PMI would like to thank everyone who has participated in helping the writer put this story together. It is very helpful to know the details of what had happened all those many years ago. Even though it is still hard for me to read all of this and seems so unfair that such a thing could ever have happened to children it is nice to be able to know what events transpired. I grew up knowing little more than there was a bus crash and Calvin and Ellen had died. I never got the chance to know them as my Uncle and Aunt but I think to get the story out for everyone is a way of honoring them and all of the kids. I once again want to say thank you to everyone and I look forward to reading the rest of the story. Also, to the writer, I want to thank you for telling the story in such a tasteful manner. God bless to everyone involved and touched by this tragic accident.
Posted by Stacey (Craven) Sfakianos on February 9, 2007 11:26 PMI came to know Jim, Loretta, Jimmy, Glen, and Bruce Ford when I was thirteen. We attended the same church (Harvestime Tabernacle) in Evans.
Those boys were good natured , rambunctious, energetic, and respectful, as were all the Fords.
I remember when the accident happened. Our family was heartbroken when we found out that Jimmy had died, and that Glen and Bruce had broken limbs and bad bruises.
I still remember Loretta getting up in church and asking the congregation to pray for the other families. In her pain and sorrow she was thinking of the other families. That was and is Loretta-compassionate. I haven't seen the Fords in decades, but am honored to have met, known, and
worshiped with them. I would like to tell them hello and and ask "who's passing out the jelly beans to the youngsters in church now?" Grampa Ford used to do that. God's blessings to the Fords and the other survivors and their families.
Gabriel Ortega- Marysville, Ca.
This series is absolutely amazing. My deepest sympathies to all of you amazing survivors. I can't imagine carrying this burden. BUT, it looks like a bit of good is coming from all of this. Forty-five years is a long time to wait before erecting a memorial, but now it's happening. Every story in this series has been heart-wrenching. I find myself thinking about the stories and the people throughout the day...and how all of you brave souls carried on with your lives. I was a bit over one year old when this happened. We lived in Loveland and my dad worked in Greeley...but noone ever told this story to me. Thanks to all of you for sharing your experiences.
Posted by Lee on February 9, 2007 11:11 PMThe post by Alice Luark was one of the most thoughtful, inspiring, and well writen of all the posts. I don't know what Ms. Luark does for a living but she could always be a writer!! Thanks for the refreshing original comments. We needed them.
Posted by Tony Plazzio on February 9, 2007 10:03 PMTo Mrs Craven, it was wonderful to hear from you. You sound like a very kind woman. God bless you!
Posted by on February 9, 2007 07:31 PMPerhaps if there's something we can all learn from this,tell your loved ones every day how much you love them!You never know when something can happen.Also,just the other morning as I was going to work,and crossing the intersection of cr 94 to get to hwy 85,I had my heater on high,as it was cold and foggy.Thank God I looked south,because I truley did'nt hear the train going north.Even though I had the window opened,the train driver didn't blow his horn until he was almost on top of me!I've heard a lot of trains passing in the night that don't blow their horns until after they've passed the crossings,There has to be better regulations on that.Also why don't they fix the road crossing the tracks?There's a huge hole there and you have to drive over to the left side of the road to avoid the "pot hole?
Posted by lori sarchet on February 9, 2007 05:50 PMThanks Tim for the memorial donation address. I was in the 1st grade at St. Columba in Durango when this accident happened. My mom remembers reading about it & looking at her four children- she said she just couldn't imagine the grief for all involved. She lives in Littleton along with my sister... our sons go to CSU....I went to CU... so Colorado and it's people mean alot to us. This truly is remarkable story. Thank you.
Posted by Lil & Tony Texas on February 9, 2007 05:06 PMMy Grandpa Brantner (Joe) was my hero my hole life,
It was the way he had with people. Everywhere I ever went with him, it seemed to know everyone!
He was the friendliest person I’ve ever known. The word Jolly doses not even come close to describing him.
I’ve always hoped I’d turn out like him.
How with so much tragedy in his life he could remain so happy I’ll never know.
I use to love the way he teased me, telling me “if he put me out in the middle of the corn field with a crow bar I could find a way to break it” just thinking of it now makes me smile ear to ear!
After reading of his actions that day in December, I know now my admirations were well placed.
I’ll always love and miss him
He was a true hero
Thank you to all who would like to help with the Auburn Memoial Fund.
The Bank Address is:
Compass Bank
3501 West 12th Street
Greeley Colorado
80634
Auburn Bus Memoial Fund
Thank you All
Tim Geisick
Tim...Your grand mother approves and is very proud of you and so am I. This is the right thing to do for the memorial site . And Mom says she will donate too . And hopefully I can bring her to the unveiling of the memorial.
Tim is right , there are some family members who are not happy with the "crossing" . Mainly because they see how hard it is on Mom. But most do want to see a memorial put up .
As you readers can see my nephew is a very caring , good person . He is willing to take this on , and it's a big task. His Mom is very ill, and Tim so busy with his business . He has the same strength and compassion we all learned from my parents, his grand parents. We give our blessings and hope it is successful . A lot of you have expressed a wish , now you can achieve it with Tim's leadership .
To Tim Geisick:
It takes only one person to act!
Thank you for doing this.
Posted by Tony P on February 9, 2007 11:42 AMFelicia and all
I just had an off-line email exchange with Ann Schmidt from the Museum. They had so many requests that the location of the presentation has changed from the small theatre to the bigger one next door. It is still at the Civic Center but it now in Monfort Concert Hall (which according to her seats 1700). You can get tickets at the door.
Thanks!
Tony P
Tony P. - I spoke to my aunt a few nights ago on the telephone - Becky (Alles) Badley - and she said she got tickets for the museum event just the other day. She and her husband, Glen intend to go and my father (Kenneth R. Alles) is tentatively planning to attend also. They all have tickets. I don't know if the tickets secures their seating or if it's mandatory to get tickets prior to the event. Regardless - if I were you and wanted to go, I would get tickets prior to the event as like they have done just to make sure I had a seat.
Posted by Felicia (Alles) Trecek on February 9, 2007 10:00 AMTim,
We have sons who attend CSU in Fort Collins & read the Colorado papers online. One day we began reading The Crossing...it is a powerful testimonial. A celebration of life with a permanent marker is a wonderful tribute (as long as the families of the children agree). We would like to donate to the memorial spire.Could you post the address of the Greeley branch in Colorado? Maybe the RMN could print the address too. Thank you!
Amy you need java script to get in the chat room here is a link to download it.
http://www.java.com/en/download/index.jsp
This is a copy of an email I sent Mr. Vaughan, Thought I would post it to help get the word out.
Tim Geisick
Mr. Vaughan,
Hello Sir,
My Name is Timothy Geisick.
You might recognize that name from your story “ The Crossing” My Cousin Randy was one of the survivors that day. However My Aunt and Uncle, Kathy and Mark Brantner were not so lucky.
My Mother, Susie Brantner is the oldest Daughter of Joe and Katherine Brantner.
I would like to thank you so much for doing this story; Which is not something you might hear from the rest of my Family. As you know, remembering that horrible day is so painful for them.
I was born four years after the accident so I virtually knew nothing about what happened that day. . It’s not something we talked about ever. It was just too painful. The mere mention of the wreck sends my Grandmother and Mother, understandably into sobbing tears. So I simply do not ask, in fear of hurting them.
Your story has helped me understand, what really happened that day, However there’s still something
I can’t understand, why is there nothing to mark the place where it happened, no Memorial, not even a Cross. Nothing! After 45 years, Nothing!
I can understand it, being too hard for the families of the Children,
However as a community we should remember all of the children. And what happened that cold day.
I’ve been wondering for a few years now, why no one has done anything at the site of the crash.
I decided to stop wondering and start doing!
I have started a Memorial fund to erect a Monument to honor the victims of the crash.
Lonnie Bunting has graciously agreed to let the monument be place it on his land adjacent to the Rail Road right of way, on the old Bindel Farm. Lonnie also pledged the first donation of $250.00
I’m hopping to raise about six or seven thousand dollars to place a six and a half foot spire, much like the shape of the Washington monument with a brief paragraph about the wreck and all the names and ages of the children who died, inscribed.
I’m also hoping you might be able to include this in your story , to help raise the funds needed to make this happen. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
I have opened a memorial Account with Compass bank in Greeley.
Donations can be made in the name of the Auburn Bus Memorial Fund or ABM fund. At the Greeley branch.
At any Compass bank, donations can be made to the same fund name care of Timothy Geisick.
Or by contacting Timothy Geisick 4125 Saltgrass Lane Evans CO 80620 (970) 371-9047 tim@lefthandcorner.com
Thank you for your time and consideration, please feel free to call with any questions or comments
Tim Geisick
Good morning,
this is a great peice on Glenn, he says it all. In our own way we have all gotten back in the saddle again. Each of use had to put our childern on the bus to go to school. Even though fear ran through out our bodies. My children would say oh mom we will be ok. Mr.------ is driving. I lived in Wyoming where the bus drove across heavy train traffic and have many trainman as friends. They to had trouble to putting their children on the bus. Because they know what could happen. But God has plans for us and sometime its to put our children on a bus.
Somehow I knew Glen would make the comparison between getting back onto the bus and getting back onto the horse.
I thought of it too when I read of how Mr. Brantner made Bobby get back on the bus.
I don't know how many times my own dad put me right back up on that horse after I had fallen off. Problem with me was the horse and I just knew I wasn't a cowgirl. It worked for my sister, though.
But it's an attitude that you need to have in life.
Posted by Diana on February 9, 2007 07:35 AMLinda- I can't seem to access the chats. Can you help, please?
Posted by Amy on February 9, 2007 07:15 AMDominique
The bus is a small 14 passenger bus, so we would never have to chain it up. If the weather was bad, we would not go on a field trip, so there would be no need tochain up even if the bus was big enough to require it. If the bus were stopped off the road for any reason, we would have to remain on the bus with the kids and call for help. I only have to drive when we go on a field trip.
About the school boundaries. Part of the reason that I find this so captivating is that my wife taught in LaSalle. We live in Lyons.
Posted by Tony P on February 8, 2007 09:40 PMHaving just read today's edition and watching the short video on the web site I can't find words. Thank you
Once again, to those family members that have had to dredge up these memories, I thank you.
Is it true that reservations are necessary for the Greely Museum meeting?
Posted by Tony P on February 8, 2007 09:11 PMDear Brenda,
Your mom and I were friends during grade school we were all best friends. I thought she was so pretty and I loved her grandmother who tried to show me how to tat. She was so good and I was all thumbs. Your grandmother let us have sleep overs and we would play in the basement/garage. One night we were sure coyotes were out the door and we ran for upstairs and didn't go back down that visit.
Tell you mom hi and have a great day.
Denise, What do you do if you have to chain up? Do you take the kids off the bus, and have them stand on the road with you? All Commercial school bus drivers with a class B license have to follow the same rules...your district may require more rules, like not driving faster than 55 mph. What would you do in such a situation?
Posted by Dominique on February 8, 2007 06:11 PMI was there at the accident on Dec. 14,1961. In just 20 plus days we were selling out, So a lot of changes was going to have take place I am 70 now. I had heard the siren from Kersey water tower as I was getting my pickup out of the garage, we live a mile north and west of Kersey, I saw flashing red lghts going west on the south side of Kersey, so I made a choice to see where it was going. It was to the accident., when I arrived their were few poeple and cars on the south side of the tracks. When I walk up to the accident site, I still can not tell you the feeling that went over me. The Train was up the track to the west. I walk the tracks to where part of the bus was, some one asked for help, as one student was still missing. so I did as asked, looking in the weeds, it was not long, they said they found the student. I asked how many students in the bus this person should be around 50. I walked slow back east to where the bus was at look inside the best one could at that point I said to myself, what I am doing here. So I walked to my pickup which was parked about 200 yards down the road. I drove home I thought I had some problems before I left home mine had all disapeared, as August 28, 1950 my mother found my sister dead accident on the farm, I knew what that did to our family. God always is their for us, so I have never forgot the day Dec. 14, 1961. I am glad that RMN did this story. To hear from so many that came out the accident, moved forward in their lives. So strong in the Power of God and his ways. I always felt sorry for the bus driver, because that was one tough crossing, How 45 years changes things as I google the area I believe most of the tracks are removed. But that is another story.
God Bless you all, Prayers are for Robert.
I have seen a couple post that say they can't access the picture or videos, if you don't have adobe flash player installed that is the problem here is a link to get it installed
http://www.macromedia.com/software/flash/about/
Hope this helps if not email me and I might be able to help you find the problem
farmsweetie1958@yahoo.com
I wanted to comment about what some have said about the driver getting off the bus. I am a kindergarten teacher at a private school. I have to drive a small bus of children when we go on a field trip. We are not allowed to leave children on the bus - whether the bus is running or not. Even if the engine if off - if we (the drivers) are not on the bus, the children are not on the bus. I do not know what rules a public school bus driver would have. As we are in Littleton, and drive in the metro ares, we have not had much opportunity to drive over railroad tracks - but this story has certainly made me think about what I would do in such a situation.
Posted by Denise on February 8, 2007 02:28 PMthank god this story is half over already
Posted by death king on February 8, 2007 02:17 PMI had to jump on these comments and add: the 20 children will indeed be remembered by all who read this extraordinary documentary with deep respect. I had never heard of this accident but I will remember all involved forever. I am in awe of the parents and siblings of the young riders who contributed to this documentary publicly with a passion and an openness that is rare these days. Thank you and Mr.Vaughan for telling this remarkable story.
Posted by Lil on February 8, 2007 02:09 PMBrenda,
Email me at Tabeagle1@msn.com
I would love to hear from you! Diana and her sister have written me.
Traci
If any of you have questions I'll try and answer them for you as best I can.
Both Paul and I went to school at East Memorial and knew where our brother and sisters names where on it . There where a lot of kids we went to school with that lost family that day . We grew up with the Walso's , Alles's , Geisicks and all their cousins . The community was full of people related to each other . My sister married into the Geisick family. They where our neighbors , friends and our world out there. We went through school until graduation together. All the families had to put their remaining kids on that bus to get to school.
When we went to East Memorial the staff was told who had lost family that day and they watched over us closer. And there were a lot of us . You see it wasn't that long after the accident that we where in school. It was still fresh on the staffs mind.
Please stop trying to place the blame on some one. It was an accident. The 20 children will always be remembered. Our thoughts go out to all our friends, family, and Mr. Harms. God Bless you all.
Parents of Calvin and Ellen Craven
Jamie...............The Boundry never moved. It's still the east property line of our old farm. All the kids still went to Greeley for school . And yes we road the bus to and from. My brother Paul and I both went to East Memorial . Paul started school in "65" and I in "66" .
This story has captured me from the first story. Being an x bus driver for thirteen years I can undertand how this tragic accident happened.
Although rules on a bus were not as strick as they are now I totally understand how this train was not seen nor heard.
Personally, only a school bus driver could truly understand this. Today I think parents should be made to ride a school bus just to see what is is we do put up with these days.
I had my daughter start reading the story, I print it everyday, read it, then give it to her to read. I am not much of a reader, but something about this story has consumed me. I think becaause I was a bus driver is why it has caught my attention. It's just enough for me to handle in one day for reading. I have deep sorrow for the families whom lost children to thoughs who did not, because they were just as affected by the tragic accident as if they had lost someone. I hope to see this story in a book form someday, I would be the first in line to buy it. I am planning a trip to the area of the accident with my daughter, it will give us both some closure when this story comes to an end. It is very heart warming to know so many readers out there have been so deeply touched.
Jamie.............The Boundry never changed. It is on the east property line of the old farm . The only thing that changed was moving the road on crossing about 700 yards farther west.
Both myself and my brother Paul attended East Memorial school . Paul started in "65" and I started in "66" . And all the kids continued to ride the bus from our community .
Brenda,
Please try to contact Traci, who posted earlier. She and I have shared emails in regard to your mother.
Posted by Diana on February 8, 2007 11:15 AMMary,
Maybe you can help answer this question. When did the district change the school boundries? I know that if you now live on the south side of the tracks you would go to LaSalle schools. Did they change this in light of the accident?
I have been reading this series everyday, trying to put together the "broken" pieces of information. I grew up knowing of the accident, and knowing that I would have had two aunts. My mom survived, and lost her sisters as many families were torn apart. As I read the comments, I have seen some asking about the White family. I will tell you that my grandparents, Don and Julia are gone, and my mom, Jackie is still living in Colorado. I also want to say how amazing it is to find out that Alice and my mom were roommates in the hospital. Kynda and I worked together at the hospital, and we talked about the accident some, and I don't think that either of us knew about that. There has been so very much that I have learned from this series, and I would like to thank all of you for sharing your stories.
Posted by Brenda on February 8, 2007 10:17 AM"The Crossing" brings to life a story from the distant past of a cold day in December forty five years ago in rural Greeley, Colorado that ended the lives of twenty school children. "The Crossing is a heartbreaking and heartwarming story of human tragedy and perseverance. Many years after that tragic day, I would learn of the accident as told to me by adults and the whispered stories of children. I spent my elementary school years at East Memorial in Greeley, Colorado. East Memorial Elementary School was named in honor of the twenty children that lost their lives on that cold December day. A plaque at East Memorial pays tribute and serves as a reminder of the tragic event that ended futures and brought unspeakable grief in 1961 to what was then a rural community. Each child's name is listed on the plaque and I read those names many times during my own East Memorial school days. So for me reading "The Crossing" is informative, yet profoundly personal . Nothing can change what happened that horrific day. Placing blame is futile. My sympathies are with the families and Duane Harms. Duane Harms, by all accounts, was a decent human being involved in a horrible, unspeakable tragedy. I would like to thank the families for sharing their personal experiences and the reporters for reporting on this tragedy of long ago. This story is important to many people touched by this accident.
Posted by Alice Luark on February 8, 2007 09:29 AM...there was not any willful, malicious, premeditated, or wanton act to cause death.
I don't recall having read this anywhere. I don't believe it was said, not by me anyway. Of course I don't feel Mr. Harms went out that day with the intention of killing 20 poor, innocent children.
I also don't believe the train engineer. I think most would have layed on the horn until the very end.
A point to ponder for some of you: if a person has done nothing wrong, then they don't need to be forgiven. Why have so many forgiven Mr. Harms? According to most of you he did nothing wrong. While the fact remains that everything went wrong that cold December morning.
I can identify with Mr. Harms. Having been a bus driver, having driven over train tracks, marked and unmarked, having been a likable person who adored her students on and on ... If this had occured during my route I would have been at fault. Not just by todays standards but by the standards set forth in 1961 as well.
I care very much about the survivors and all that were involved, including Mr Harms. It still doesn't change the way that I feel and the way that I view the accident. Not everyone feels the same about it. If they did, then there would be no reason to post here.
If you don't like what I have to say then please skip over my comments. I have not hurt anyone. Just stating the facts as I see them and how I feel they are being reported.
I think all the survivors have been through a long life of grief and saddness. Counseling wasn't a big part of living back in the 60's but it is now and has been for quite some time. I hope that you all can go and get the counseling that you need. The saddness will never go away but you will learn how to deal with it. It will probably help a lot if you open yourselves up.
I lost a brother many years ago, when we were both children, and it took a long time to heal. I don't want the memories to fade and I don't even want the saddness to fade. I think it is okay to feel sad when you think about your loved ones that are no longer here.
To the survivors,the familys,the friends,my deepest most sincere sympathys go out to you all. You may be strangers to my eyes,but you are no longer strangers in my heart. I know what grief and heartache feels like,especially under tragic circumstances. The years may fade griefs look from your face, but it still stays with you deep inside that "knot" that "sick feeling" in the pit of your stomach. And though it stays ,it stays because you have truly loved. I feel from reading this series I know you all in some way, and I have to say the examples of the tremendous faith,family,strength, hope and love have carried you through. It is such an inspiration to my heart and I am proud to share the earth with such beautiful souls as yourselves. I can see from the postings here that you have touched so many people in so many ways and you may not realize it, but by sharing your stories and lives you have helped many. As I struggle through my personal tragedy and grief you have helped me. You have shown me true that faith family love and hope will help me endure. Life is something to behold and treasure through the joy ,through the sorrow. I went to the "crossing" last night to pay my respects to you loves ones, I placed a red rose for each child, as the fog set in, I heard a trains whistle sounding in the distance, I said a prayer for all. God Bless you all and may you find peace and comfort through out your lifes journey.
Posted by Tamy on February 8, 2007 09:23 AMRegarding yesterday's post of 9:37 p.m., I humbly apologize for being offensive to those who are survivors of the events of 12/14/61. I did not think about how offensive what I said might seem through the lens of someone who was affected by that day but never learned the full story until now. It was never my intent to be hurtful and I am heartily sorry. You are absolutely right that it can be a way to work through this all to think about all of those angles.
I am opening my mouth and inserting my mouse (read "foot").
Respectfully,
Cathy
Posted by Cathy on February 8, 2007 08:36 AMAs a subscriber to The Denver Post I had not seen any the the series The Crossing until the Sat. 1/27/07 RMN which contained the first 5 chapters of this compelling story. As I read and reread the tears flowed. I was in 9th grade, 14 years old - in my school district 9th grad was the last year of junior high. The article brought back all the memories of this tragic story. I had tried to read about it and had heard my parents and their friends talking in hushed whispers. So much curiosity but as the the way of that time our parents shielded us from any awful things that went on in the world and especially in our own state.
As I read these chapters to famiiarize myself with all involved the emotions of the loss of these people rose up and overwhelmed me. I went online everyday to print each chapter but still could not read on past the first five. Then as I tentatively read the subsequent chapters that not only is this series sad but uplifting - reading about each of the families and how almost all of them relied on their faith in God to get them through. I decided to read the discussions as I went and became more convinced this story needed to be told - have found myself convinced that the power of God and Jesus as our Saviour - our God that will forgive us just for the asking and only wants us to believe in Him in return.
I have enjoyed reading all of discussions especially from the survivors and/or realtives of the victims.
I especially want to thank the following:
Felicia (Alles) Trecek - thank you for telling us more about your grandmother the mother of Linda and Nancy Alles.
Mary Brantner - your family in particular has faced so much tragedy I literally had to make a list of the events to keep track of your large family. Your insights and comments are provacative and touching.
Linda Larson and Nancy Larson-Slater-Walker - today's article about Alice is wonderful. Your mother's courage in fighting her cancer way back in 1955. Chapter 7 was a turning point for me. It was in that chapter that I realized this could be an uplifting story.
Colleen and LaDean Yetter who missed the bus that day and have suffered survivor's guilt. To Colleen who is a cancer survivor and only 1 year younger than me - I particularly identified with Colleen because I am a 17 12 year survivor of breast cancr.
Luis Lozano is an inspiration to all of us. Like the Brantners his family has suffered so many additional loses but Luis has turned his life into a positive force and become a lay pastor and has gone on so many missions to Panama. The last word he utters in Chapter 13 is "Hope".
The Ford boys - how sad to lose a brother when the 3 of them were so close. I had 3 brothers and I remember the bonds they had with each other. It is unthinkable that one of them should die.
To Roger who posted a comment on Jan. 23 and said you were there. I am assuming you are Roger Reps who got a ride that day from a neighbor and was luckily not on the bus. Am I right?
And last but not least - Duane Harms - I will keep you in my prayers daily. No one should have to live with what you have gone through. Words cannot express my sorrow for you and your family that this event brought about.
A common thread of this series and all the prople involved seems to be that no one got counseling, no one talked about it. The survivors had to keep so many things bottled up inside. So different from how it is today. I cannot imagine going around all these years with a tragedy like this in my past and never having talked much about it.
Kevin Vaughan and everyone else associated with this article and done a wonderful job and I am really looking forward to reading the rest and also to reading future discussions.
Posted by Beverly on February 8, 2007 07:49 AMI can not access the pictures or video. What is my problem? Excellent story, I wait everyday for the next chapter but would like to see the pictures to put it all together. Thank you.,
Posted by D on February 8, 2007 04:12 AMTo Felicia (Alles) Trecek,
I would like to of seen a picture taken directly behind the window where the engineer sits but Chapter 10 picture 4 does the job. Its truly special to see people such as your self being objective and keeping a level head. Thanks, John
Posted by on February 8, 2007 03:23 AMI've read many criticisms in the postings so I had to write a thank you for retelling this story. I hope the critics will simply turn the page.
This tragedy and its reverberations should never have happened to all of the children, their families, or their community. The text, video, and photos are so well put-together that it gives the victims dignity and a voice. I never knew of this tragedy until I read The Crossing. This story has touched my life and it won't leave me.
Prayers of comforting thoughts are sent out for the families and children involved.
Posted by Jean on February 7, 2007 11:24 PMTo the person who posted on February 7, 2007 0 at 4:56 PM (assuming Lynn since you were the one who asked about Susie Brantner), and to Cathy...
It is not your place to write that a post from someone else on this forum is "pointless". If someone else is delving into the "shoulda, woulda, coulda", that's their business. There are many of us who are reading this forum everyday who had relatives on that bus, and some I see are writing on this forum also. (The person who I think you are referring to on this forum, had three relatives on that bus.) Our families didn't talk about it much while we were growing up. Therefore, we're all pleased that the RMN is running this series so that we can better understand what happened on December 14, 1961. If the "shoulda, woulda, coulda's" helps those of us (who had relatives on that bus) to understand the circumstances that caused the death of our family members, who are you to say that their posts on this forum are "pointless"? We'll form our own opinions. We don't need your suggestions about how we're suppose think about it. This story for a bunch of us relatives isn't just singly about how people are today. We're glad to finally have the opportunity to learn about what happened on December 14, 1961.
Posted by on February 7, 2007 09:37 PM
..And will be expanded upon in a future chapter.
Lori: "I'm interested to know what happened to the bus driver....What about his wife and baby?"
His story is foreshadowed in the very first chapter (Echoes).
I think this series is awsome.It is so well written and even though I was only 6 at the time,and did'nt live here,my husband did.He was 7 and remembers his parents being afraid of putting him on the school bus.If Ladean Yetter hadn't missed the bus that morning,Rod wouldn't have known her!He was very surprised to know the facts about that day,for all the children.But I think knowing Ladean,and the fact she never mentioned this,affected him greatly!People need to know the stories about all the families envolved.I'm interested to know what happened to the bus driver.God willing,we're never in that position.What about his wife and baby?
Posted by lori sarchet on February 7, 2007 06:32 PMI think this series is awsome.It is so well written and even though I was only 6 at the time,and did'nt live here,my husband did.He was 7 and remembers his parents being afraid of putting him on the school bus.If Ladean Yetter hadn't missed the bus that morning,Rod wouldn't have known her!He was very surprised to know the facts about that day,for all the children.But I think knowing Ladean,and the fact she never mentioned this,affected him greatly!People need to know the stories about all the families envolved.I'm interested to know what happened to the bus driver.God willing,we're never in that position.What about his wife and baby?
Posted by lori sarchet on February 7, 2007 06:28 PMMy thoughts and prayers go out to everyone who was involved in this tragic accident.
I was a sixth grade student at Jackson Elementary School in Greeley at the time of the accident. Because of space problems, my class was being bussed to Heath Junior High School for classes. I will never forget that day....it was so cold and we were waiting for the bus outside. Suddenly, we were ushered back into Jackson School to wait for transportation to Heath. The bus involved in the accident was our bus. We were told there was an accident. It was up to our parents to give us the details.
I appreciate this story so much. At first, I thought I didn't want to relive that December but now I am so very grateful to learn of the families and their survival.
I like the points that you have made Cathy, They are exactly what I have been thinking. The should haves and I would haves are pointless. The past can not be changed. In my opinion I do not feel that Mr Harms acted recklessly. He stopped opened the door listened-heard nothing--Looked, and from his view saw nothing, so he proceeded. I have read nothing thus far to lead me to believe he felt he was taking a chance by crossing. How many of you have to drive these county roads in this God awefull fog we get out here in Weld County? I do alot of driving and have to cross many tracks, many of which still do not have flashing lights or arms, In the fog I stop look and listen then proceed. I am confident that there is no train, but how much can you really see in the fog? It had never occured to me before to actually get out and look, yes this would be a good practice now, but it does nothing to change all the tracks I have crossed in the past. We can all say I would have or I should have.It doesn't change a thing. Maybe though it does cause a little more doubt and a little more grief for these families.
I would also like to make a point of saying that I commute up and down HWY 85 at all times of the day and night. I know for a fact that these trains do not blow their whistles at every crossing. Maybe in the middle of the night they think people are not crossing the tracks onto or from the county roads. These are crossings that also do not have flashing lights or arms. I am just amazed in this day and age these trains are not blowing their whistles at EVERY crossing.
Also, Yes I agree, grief was dealt with differently back then when it came to children. (this is why I was curious about Susie Brantner). I have a friend who lost a loved one tragically when we were just 15. She has told me in recent years the hardest part about all of it was that she really didn't have anyone to talk to about it, because it was really focused on the parents and adults. She had a really hard time dealing with her grief. I have heard there is no greater pain than a parent losing a child. As stated we as parents should not outlive our children. To sum up all of this I think we should also remember all of these siblings that survived or were not on the bus . They too grieved deeply. Some of them lost their best friends who were their siblings and they too had to face every new day without them.
Mary--It warms my heart to hear that Sue went on to have a good life. As it does all of you who went on to expierence joy and happiness in your lives. Thank you all so much for sharing your memories. I am truly inspired by many of you.
It is possible that the reason that the UP RR didn't step up to the plate and pay for hospital and burial costs of victims of the accident was to avoid being seen in anyway as culpable for what happened. We will probably never know since there are missing records from this case and Kevin Vaughan was not allowed to view the files that UP RR had regarding the accident. At least one person has mentioned that they think the school district may have paid for some of the expenses that victims' families incurred as a result of the 12/14/61 accident and if that is indeed true, I really doubt that a public school district would follow that same course of action today, for the same reason that the RR might not have. It is true that financially 1961 was a much different time; people did not have the access to credit the way we do today and didn't often finance expenses. I am not putting a value judgement here, just trying to offer what I think is a possible reason that things were handled the way they were.
For Joe and Katherine Brantner to offer the land for the crossing to be moved because it was "the right thing to do" is a hallmark of that time. I often heard that phrase from my own dear mother. People didn't nearly so often in those days think first about what was in it for them before they acted. Sadly, I think we have lost much of that impulse in our day to day living as we become more mobile and more removed from our communities. Nonetheless, it was a very graceful gesture from a family who had lost so much already, but I am not suggesting for one moment that they or other victims' families saw those as financial costs. Money doesn't buy what people lost that day.
Mary, you are a wonderful daughter and sister to your family. I very much respect your honoring your sister's right to privacy. And I also believe you honor your family in your grace in dealing with this tragedy being brought up again. I am so happy to know that you have some new family members "arriving" this year; the life cycle helps us all to keep perspective, I believe. I also LOVED what Juanita Larson said of her son Steve: that they were so lucky to have had him in their lives. And to those affected that day who have chosen not share publicly their private pain, I respect you, as well. Grief has no blueprint or timeline and is different for everyone just as we are unique as individuals. No matter how old someone is when we lose them, a loss is a loss but particularly when dealing with the loss of a child is it especially poignant: parents aren't supposed to out live their children in the natural order of things in our world.
The way that the issue of loss and grief was dealt with regarding the children themselves who had lost friends and family members is also indicative of the times. Now we have much more understanding of the emotional development of children and what is appropriate at what age. But not for a moment do I think that the way it was handled in 1961 was done so with malice; it was just the way things were.
For those of us as humans who fall prey to the "shoulda, woulda, coulda" school of thought and think we would have made a different choice or choices on that day, I say let it go. It is our nature to think we'd never do anything wrong. But again that is where the word "accident" comes in to play. Mr. Harms was cleared of wrongdoing in 1962 and it is unfair and pointless for any of us to try him here. That is where the term "double jeopardy" comes into play and why a person, in our country's courts, cannot be tried for the same thing twice.
Just a question: what happened to the person who was driving the vehicle that struck Jimmy and Johnny on that day 45 years ago? Were any charges ever filed? Not that by any means it changes the outcome of that part of this larger tragedy. Mary and family, I am so sorry for all of the losses you have endured. My heart and empathy go out to all survivors of the accident in '61 and the one of '62.
Posted by Cathy on February 7, 2007 02:45 PMYears ago, I met Freeman. He confided some details of his life, but he did not tell me about Melody. He did introduce me to Smith, who is handsome and charming, and very "normal." Freeman also introduced me to his sister who was in a wheelchair because she had been shot by someone, (I believe it was possibly an ex-husband.) To be sure, Freeman is
no stranger to heartache.
Indeed, Freeman is a difficult character. If he were MY father, it would be difficult for me to distance myself from what some people might call his "oddities."
Freeman was given the name Noe Maldonado at birth, but he confided that he always took a different name
"every place I worked." Then his sister married a man named Mr. Jeffers who apparently was the head
of some obscure religious movement. They had all kinds of dietary stipulations (like you couldn't drink any kind of liquids with your meals)
Well, at that point, Noe embraced the tenets of this religion, (including reincarnation) and decided to change his name to Young Goodwin
Freeman, "because the vibrations were right."
Freeman is a complex person. He loves riddles and word puzzles, Charlie Russell western art, and anything "cowboy." And just when
you think he is "certifiably crazy" he will do or say something that makes you question, "Who is nuts, him or me?" Freeman has a grandson who he absolutely believes is the reincarnation of King David from the Biblical days.
With that all being said, my heart truly goes out to anyone who has experienced a tragedy of the magnitude that was set in motion that cold winter day.
And it's people like Freeman who add color to the tapestry we call the human experience.
Posted by huerfano on February 7, 2007 12:31 PMJohn, there is a photo that Harms' lawyer took, posted in one of the chapters. The photo shows the vantage point of the train crew where they were mandated to blow the whistle/horn. At that certain place on the tracks - at the whistle posts, the modeled bus was difficult to see. Based upon that photograph, I don't see how the train crew were able to determine whether or not the bus door opened or closed. Regardless of the obvious; considering the mere logistics, I think they wouldn't have been able to rightly determine whether or not that bus door opened and closed.
I agree, I think the train crew were protecting their jobs. Additionally, it is sure interesting that a large number of the court and investigative records were mysteriously absent when Kevin Vaughan was putting together his story.
I also absolutely agree with Flynn's post on February 6, 2007 07:59 PM. It becomes obvious. Why didn't the train crew blow the horn again if they were watching that bus as closely as they seem to have claimed? If they said that that bus didn't stop, didn't open it's door, and merely preceded over the tracks, why didn't that train crew hang-on or stand-on on that whistle?
Again, it sure is interesting that a large number of the court and investigative records were mysteriously absent when Kevin Vaughan was putting together his story. If I recall correctly, Kevin Vaughan received Harms' defense photos and records from the defense lawyer's widow.
Based upon my current understanding of the facts presented on this web site, I assess that the train company - Union Pacific - negated it's ethical responsibilities to all those kids and their families. Hypothetically, if all parties involved did not violate any laws of the land or company regulations, they violated simple human ethics. That's how this accident was made possible. Does this mean that I think all of these people are bad people? Absolutely not. Does this mean I think I am more righteous than they were/are? Absolutely not. Does this mean I'm pointing fingers? No. I think that I am just stating the obvious. So, let's glean and gain some wisdom from this tragic event. It's better to be safe than sorry. Duane Harms realized that in his hindsight when he was being questioned. According to this web site, the interview with Duane is copied and pasted as follows:
QUOTE----------------->
Bohlender asked Harms if his view was obscured. "Well," Harms replied, "I should say yes, that's true. Yes, because actually I should have gotten clear out, because it's at such an angle there that in order to see anything at all a fellow should get out of the bus." Have you ever gotten out before? "No," Harms said. "The only thing I've ever done is open the door and wait to see if I could hear anything."<-------------------END QUOTE.
FATE? If that bus proceeded across the train tracks, the bus' engine stalled whereas Duane couldn't drive that bus any farther off the tracks, and the train then hit the bus while the bus was stuck on the tracks, then that would have been fate - in my own opinion. Everyone else is welcome to their own opinions.
We all make mistakes, but let's try to minimize them as best as we can by thinking situations through. I don't have any grudges against anyone, axes to grind, nor do I hate anyone. I wish the best for everyone.... truly.
Posted by Felicia (Alles) Trecek on February 7, 2007 12:17 PMThank you for all the thoughts and prayers......
To answer Lynn on Mr. Bindel they retired to Arizonia where he passed away at a very old age . His family is still around Greeley and a few moved to Nebraska . We have stayed close to the family and keep in touch . Mrs. Bindel has come here and Mom and Dad have gone there. And we have all been to the family events like weddings for each others families .
As for my sister.....well I'm not sure how much information I should give . She is requesting privicy . She is fighting cancer and is gravely ill at this time . All she really wants is to see and talk to family. This is her second round with cancer . She just wants to be left alone so she can deal with what she needs to right now. But please keep her in your prayers . And to answer the question on how she handles the accidents.....she took it very hard . She and Johnny where best friends. And yes it did change her life to . But to her it's a privite matter she does not wish to go into. My sister is a strong , caring , loving person. She has had a good life and has kids and grand kids. In fact she's also going to receive a new grand child this spring. The babies are due about the same time . Sue has seven grand kids right now . I hope that answers your questions Lynn . I'm sorry I can't tell you more about my sister . But if it's privicy she wants I will honor her wishes.
Just please keep us in your thoughts and prayers .
All the people involved in the series have my prayers today also. It is an especially sad day for the Brantners; but Mary and her mother are right to focus on the new ones.
If you go to the series index, you will see the photo of little Nichole almost next to the photo of Melody. How touching those children's photos are and so similar. They need to be remembered.
Again, I pray slso that both Freeman and Smith will keep the melody ringing in their hearts; and I pray that Melody will be able sometime to meet them both again, perhaps united to all in their family.
I will not argue belief about how it will happen--I'm not sure Melody would argue that either. We'll all learn on our own someday.
I'm reminded of the words to a song my dad loved. "You've got to walk that lonesome valley. You've got to walk it by yourself. Nobody else can walk it for you." (I hope it I've got it right.) To him it meant, that you have to answer to the Maker however you picture the Higher Power all alone. It's your own conscience you need to worry about, not someone elses' conscience.
But thank you RMN again, for reminding us of April Melody.
Posted by Diana on February 7, 2007 07:37 AMI have a couple questions, but first--Mary, my thoughts and prayers are with you and your family today.
Does anyone know what became of the Binder family. I would say that there were some heroics played on the part of Mr Binder also. I know first hand what it's like to be the first on the scene of an accident and know that you must approach it not knowing what your going to find. I would think, although he did not lose any children, that this was also traumatic for him, yet it sounds like he went to work trying to help the surviving children.
My next question--Mary we've learned alot about your family, but we have not heard anything about Susie. She was older at the time of the accident, I just wondered how she has coped with all of this.
Again, all my prayers are with you and your family today. God bless all of you survivors.
Train engineers are only employees of a large corporation. In this case, Union Pacific. The engineers did what they had to do to protect their jobs. Anyone who works for someone else knows what happens if you screw up. You are on your own.
I have not seen any pictures from the engineers view. Can't stop the train for that. The corporation has a schedule, a deadline, customers, money to be made at anyones cost. This was in 1961. Imagine how it is now deep in the secret boardrooms across the country. In government.
Mary Brantners' comments about morals is the most potent statement I have read. This country is where it is at and will receive its just due. Starting with abortion, a massive governmental and corporate money making machine. Abortion justifies any level of violence. You don't like that? Makes you sweat? We all better say our prayers. Its coming. Better watch that 401k, too, its next. John
Posted by on February 7, 2007 01:27 AMMary,
I know that today is a sad day for you and your family and I want you to know that you all are in my thoughts. Remember the wonderful things about Johnny and know that he will help you all through this sad day. I am glad to know that you will be with your mom. I know it will help. A day like this is best to be shared with the ones you love.
Posted by Sara on February 7, 2007 12:40 AMMy Mom wouldn't be interested in reimbursement for the land . She said Daddy did it because it was the right thing to do .
Our family is adding two new sprites to our clan this spring .But we are loosing two older ones . And no it's not my Mom who is sick.,she's just fine but sad.It seems God has found a balance for us this time. While we have to prepare for the inevitable passing of loved ones we can also look to the joy of new life. We can look back on lives well lived and cherished . At least this time we have the chance to say our good byes. It's all in the circle of Gods plan for us. Hard as it may be. Mom is our strenght and our best friend . While this hard for all of us we can look to her for support and courage.
The look of joy on her face over not one but two new great grand babies . She is proud of her family . She has always had strong faith in the Lord. And she again has put things in his hands. I can hardly wait to hand her my new grand daughter this spring. Life is hard but then God gives you new hope for the future. And Mom will tell you it's all worth it in the long run.
We can take the sorrow and miss those leaving us . And yet the joy of our new lives who have so much to learn from us.
Teach your kids, grand kids the morals , manners and lessons they will need to be good , caring people.
You are their best teacher .
We have lost that caring about each other , help your fellow man attitude our country once had. When did we stop caring about our neighbors? When did we become so busy that we don't have time for others? When did we stop being kind , considerate , polite to each other ?
Have we really gotten so bad that we can't change how we act or talk to each other ? I really do pray we have not gotten to that point.
I am planning to be at the museums night presentation. And I plan on bring some family with me.The younger kids need to know what happened that day so long ago. It will help them under stand the problems this family has had.Help them understand why there is sadness at times of the year that should be happy. I need to pass on the knowledge and faith the families of all the kids had then and now. I hope all the readers can find something possivitive to take from the series.
Mary and Family,
As you get ready to retire for the night, I'm sure your thoughts are already with Johnny. I hope tomorrow will be a little more comforting for all of you knowing that all of us are also thinking of Johnny. We are holding him and all of you in our hearts, thoughts and prayers.
God Bless All Of You and Comfort You Tomorrow and Always...........
John, Kathy, and Mr. Gift: I have copied most of your posts, or at least the gist of your comments last night. I encourage all interested parties to read them as they condemn Mr. Harms for his decision to cross the railroad tracks. Some of your earlier posts went from outright and contemptuous blame and fault to sarcastic forgiveness. It continues to amaze me that you can't resolve, in your minds, the decisions of a jury trial of Mr. Harms...that he was innocent. I'm convinced that there were things discussed, investigated, and discovered behind the closed doors at that trial that we may never know, that contributed to the verdict of "innocent "on manslaughter charges. I can appreciate and understand the verdict, unless I supplant myself into your minds of today with the litigious attitudes of financial remuneration. I can clearly understand that, but remind you that it was not the preponderant mindset of 45 years ago. For the most part, lawsuits were filed to cover the expenses of litigation and burial expenses. You should realize that cash-in-hand was not a commodity of the time and it was a financial hardship to cover medical and funeral expenses for the families affected and the reason that the resultant lawsuits were filed...and understandably so. That you continue to profess that you would have prevented that accident...what beneficial hindsight, how self-serving, indignant, and reprehensible.
To all the beloved survivors and families and friends....it's with remorse that I hate you relive this tragedy and that your lives are brought into reliving the arguments of blame today...as then...
To all of the affected people, I'm amazed with the incredible strength you have to join this chat and support the idea that, for most of you, Mr. Harms did not intentionally take the lives of so many children that day...that for whatever reason....fate, God's Will, circumstances, ill-will, a minute in time, bad luck, or whatever...there was not any willful, malicious, premeditated, or wanton act to cause death.
Posted by quit pointing guilt, it was an accident on February 6, 2007 09:13 PMWhat an inspirational story again today, as was the story yesterday about the Brantners. To go through so much--the trial by fire, so to speak--and come out whole, in mind and spirit.
First, to Traci in regard to the White girls--we lived right down the road from the Whites, between them and the Larsons after we moved out there. This was after the accident, remember. Jackie went to the public school, while we attended College High.
I didn't get to know her well because I was so involved with other friends, but my older sister got to know her pretty well. They were often together talking girl talk and riding horses. She would enjoy catching up with Jackie, how she fared these years. I, too, am hoping to hear her story. Again, it is so sad that we were given the impression that it might be too harmful to talk about all this.
Today's story about little Nichole's death really brings into focus why we need to hear these stories. As an English teacher, I know that much of the hero's quest in the epics comes from his desire to gain immortality. Often in the ancient times, there was only a vague idea--as it is today--of what happens after death. So the only sure way to live after death, in their minds, was to be remembered by those who come after--thus the search for fame.
That is, I believe, why it is especially hard to lose someone so young. The child, we may feel, does not have time to go on his or her own hero's quest yet. But reading the story of little Nichole, her connection to Mary Lozano, etc. makes it clear that age does not matter. Our lives can be heroic and can bring out the heroic in others simply by being born.
I didn't know the Lozanos' story at all until today. Than you RMN for telling it.
Posted by Diana on February 6, 2007 08:49 PMI was born in December of 1965. Four years after this tragedy happened. My mother, (Bessis C.Biggs) and aunt, (Margorie E.Biggs)
were suppose to have been picked up by this same bus on that terrible day, but the bus never came. My grandmother ended up taking both girls in to school. My mother was 16 and a good friend of Jerry Hembreys. My aunt was 7. My mom has never really talked about what happened that day except that she remembered that my grandmother kept saying over and over,"Something's wrong, The but is never late." as she drove them to school. When this wonderful series came out she began reading it and explained that now she could finally find out what happened that day. I guess she had never really said much about it because she really didn't know much. Being a child/teen at that time, my gandparents hadn't discussed too much about what had happened in front of her or my aunt. She has gone through all these years wondering. She was able to get a little insight back then when Jerry Hembrey returned to school and she would sit and talk to him. She has appreciated this story very much not only from the respectful way it has been presented but also to learn what actually happened to some of her friends and fellow bus-riders that day. Her and my aunt remember December 14, 1961 vividly and even though they are saddened to remember the event - they are also thankful for the opportunity to remember those they knew and to get a small glimpse into how it affected them and their families. Thank you again and our thoughts and prayers are with all those involved.
From the first, I've doubted the truthfulness of the engineer's testimony. I read through the questions asked and answers given by Sommers & Swanson during the hearing by the DA, and it doesn't ring true to me.
Besides being defensive and evasive, they testified that they blew the horn as required at the whistle post which was 1300 feet from the crossing. At 79 MPH, it would have taken 11 seconds to get from there to the crossing. They also testified that at the time they blew the horn, the bus was 200-300 feet from the crossing and was slowing down. (Brake lights on). The only way the bus would have had time to get from that far away to the point of impact in 11 seconds would be to not stop. I think that's why they insisted Harms did not stop, knowing Harms was uncertain about it.
Also, they testified they were looking at the right side of the bus and the door did not open. They were above and at a very narrow 20+ degree angle to the right side of the bus (from the rear) and would have had a difficult time seeing whether or not the door opened.
I think Sommers & Swanson were really not watching that closely, and after they blew the whistle and saw that the bus was braking, confident it would stop, they took their eyes off the scene for a few seconds, being engaged in conversation or whatever. They likely feared they would be fired by Union Pacific if they admitted they looked away at all, so they cooked their story.
I hope during the trial Mr. Harm's attorney asked Sommers why, if he was so closely watching the bus, he DIDN'T BLOW THE HORN AGAIN!
Because that was the last desperate hope the doomed bus had. Sommers hitting the brakes instead of the horn was pointless.
Posted by Flynn on February 6, 2007 07:59 PMDominique and Tony, thanks for the replies.
The City of Greeley Museums posted last Friday here on this forum stating they are hosting a gathering for Kevin Vaughan and other News staff. This would be a good setting to put-forth ideas and suggestions. Perhaps if some of you lived in the area could go, may-be voices can be heard. It might be possible that one or more of the city and county reps might be present. Although, I'm not sure. If anyone plans to attend on February 21 at 7 pm (at the Union Colony Civic Center in Greeley), I think you need to get tickets in advance. So, heads-up to anyone who want to attend. I live in California and have things going-on, so I won't be there.
Anyway, I think proposing that Katherine Brantner receive reimbursement for the land her husband donated, is a noble suggestion. And; if it happens, I hope the RMN puts it on the front page headlines. (Smile.)
Posted by Felicia (Alles) Trecek on February 6, 2007 06:38 PMIn response to Felicia Trecek, a school bus driver can get out of their seat, only when the engine is turned off and the keys are in the driver's hand. As for 1961 iI think it stated in the rules pretaining to Mr Harms' position he could get out of the seat when the engine was off.
I, too question the exact amount of truth the train engineer was telling.
I would guess the School District paid for burials as they should since the children were riding on the school bus that was transporting students to and from school with a driver that was paid to work for the district.
I am pleased to read suriviors and their families are following this discusion, as I had learned so much from them!!
Posted by Dominique on February 6, 2007 05:41 PMI agree Ms. Trecek- sometimes the witnesses accounts & the testimony from the locomotive engineer doesn't jive. I guess we will truly never know what happened other than this appears to be a freak accident.
But what I would like to convey is...... wouldn't it be a noble gesture if Weld County along with the City of Greeley, the State of Colorado & the Rail Authority were to reimburse the elder Mrs. Brantner for her donated land..... at today's price. If this isn't acceptable... maybe they could establish a memorial at the accident site to honor all involved, victims and survivors. Just a thought.....
Two more thoughts I want to put-forth on this forum...
Duane Harms was tried in a court of law because that was/is the due process. The individuals of the court did not know Duane Harms from Adam. And, they did not know what happened. He was put on trial because they were unsure whether he stopped the bus. Please know, a person cannot be convicted and placed in jail or prison if they did not break some type of law - a written code of the governing land. Duane Harms was found innocent of violating any law. He did not violate a written code of the governing land; therefore, he could not be labeled as guilty in terms of the court. One of those laws obviously was stopping at the crossing. Whether the law explicitly stated such, I don't know. But, I am quite sure that the law/s in question of being violated was reckless endangerment.
Who should pay retribution?...
The families of the children on that bus were due some type of retribution. Does this mean retribution would assuage their pain or bring their kids back to life? Absolutely and obviously not. But think about this for a moment: most of these Auburn people were poor, and they were saddled with severe financial costs after that bus accident. There were burial costs, there were extensive medical costs. Some families were saddled with both. So; who should have been morally responsible? Or, who should be financially responsible? Should have the families bore the costs alone? I disagree. So, this leads to my question... who pays retribution?
Retribution was obviously beyond what Duane Harms could afford. If he paid anything to anyone, I don't know. But, some institution came forth with some money for some of the families involved in the law suits. My immediate family received some money, enough to cover the burial costs for Linda Alles. (My aunt that I never had the chance to know.) I think it might have been the school district. If so, they stepped-up to the plate sort of speak and took-on the moral and ethical financial responsibility. And, I thank them very much for doing it.
I dare write, I think the Rail-Road should have done the same - took-on a share of the moral and ethical financial responsibility. But; it is my current knowledge, they didn't. If I am wrong about this, some one please correct me.
I think it is a crying shame that Joe Brantner had to DONATE land for that road to be moved. The county should have stepped-up to the plate and accepted some the moral and ethical financial responsibility for the safety of it's citizens. They should have at least offered to pay him for the land knowing he already incurred a great loss. - My own opinion, of course.
Posted by Felicia (Alles) Trecek on February 6, 2007 02:00 PMMs. Brantner,
I would like to tell you that my thoughts will be with you and your entire family tomorrow. I cannot stay away from this story. It has shown me to hug my kids just a little tighter everyday. I too lost a brother to an accident, and while I cannot feel or understand your families pain, my thoughts are with you all.
To all the other families reading and posting here (I tried to go through and find all of your postings,but got lost. I'm sorry.)
I am deeply sorry for the pain you are going through to get your story out to all of us. I also hope that maybe you are finding a small amount of comfort by telling these stories.
All of you are in my thoughts everyday as I read this.
Posted by Robin on February 6, 2007 01:35 PMJohn: I am not so sure that the US remains a Constitutional Republic. The US started as one, but it has DIGRESSED into a democracy. At the very least, the leaders of this country along with the educational system wants us to believe it is a democracy. Our founding fathers of this country once said that if this nation digressed into a democracy, then it would eventually slip into a dictatorship. And, I see that now happening. Our freedoms our being chipped away for the sake of "FREEDOM". There is an oxymoron. In a Republic, people are suppose to govern themselves based upon the laws of a higher power. (This country was founded upon the bible whether people like it or not. That's simply a fact.) We're suppose govern ourselves by laws like: honor your father and mother, don't steal, don't murder, don't commit adultery, don't covet, and don't bear false witness. These last six commandments (out of the ten) compose the second greatest commandment - love your neighbor as yourself. Since self-governance in this country has now eroded from most of society, we're on the slippery slope.
I was watching a religious TV channel the other day. Some religious interviewers/reporters were randomly interviewing people on the street. Out of MANY people who were asked to name at least one or more of the ten commandments, only one girl could name one of the ten. Then, these same people (the interviewees) were asked to name ten football teams and ten types of beer. They were able to spiel out football team names and beer names without any mental effort at all. Christ said (in the gospel of Matthew 7:12) that the summary of the law and the prophets is this: whatever you wish men to do to you, do also to them. Hence; the people on the street - the ones who were interviewed - could not properly and rightly define what it means to love your neighbor as yourself. This country is in a serious state of Spiritual and moral depravity.
Slightly changing the subject...
I am 41 years of age. Hence; I am viewing this report (THE CROSSING) of this accident that occurred on December 14, 1961 with a 41 year old state of mind. I have gained some experience and wisdom since the time that I was 23 years of age. At the age of 41 - if I was the bus driver - ,... I would have asked Jerry Hembry to please step off the bus and look for a train. Would I have thought to do that at 23 years of age? I'm not so sure.
It is my current understanding that there was a law in 1961 that did not allow Duane Harms to stand-up away from the driver's seat while the bus engine was on. Consequently, he was unable to place his head out of the bus door to look for a train or listen for a train - being away from the driver seat. If I am wrong about this, anyone who knows what the law stated back then - for a FACT - please correct me.
We all know that it was Duane Harms' foot that engaged the gas pedal which propelled the bus forward over the tracks. That's a given. However; along with my previous statement, I am not sure or feel confident that the train crew was truthful about what happened that day. There are several reasons why I think the train crew were feeling some guilt, and possibly lied or at least gave twisted testimony. But, I will only state three reasons out of several.
First Reason:
Nancy Larson-Slater-Walker wrote here-within on January 31, 2007 that she was in another vehicle east of the bus - at a different crossing - at the same time the bus was at THE crossing west of her. She wrote that there was a truck approaching the tracks, but the train DID NOT blow it's whistle/horn. And, Nancy Larson would not have known there was an approaching train if she hadn't rolled her window down to look. Additionally, the sighting of the train was difficult that particular morning even when she was NOT looking through a window.
Again; at 41 years of age - if I were the train conductor or a crew member of that train, I would have made sure that the whistle/horn was blaring all the way through that area because of the several crossings and vehicles present. As a side note, I heard wind... that same train conductor - at some point in time in his career - also ran over and killed a farmer. If anyone knows anything about that, perhaps you can post?
Second Reason:
The RailRoad would not open their files to the reporter, Kevin. If they have nothing to hide, what are they hiding?
Third Reason:
We don't have all the facts about what occurred that day - December 14, 1961. It might appear that we do, but we don't.
Although, I don't see any harm in discussing how the situation could have been prevented. We hopefully learn from our own mistakes and hopefully we can learn from other people's mistakes so we don't make the same mistakes again. Overall - hopefully we can all learn from this series and discussion so that we can become better people in general.
Posted by Felicia (Alles) Trecek on February 6, 2007 11:55 AMI am compelled to respond as I am finding myself so touched by this series. When I first read Chapter 1 on line through the Greeley Tribune my thoughts were, how tragic to bring this up again. Why churn up such devastating events and memories? I felt angry because I did not want to see my mom upset. However, I am grateful that days later I returned to this web site. I think it is very well done, not intrusive, but a tribute to those involved.
My mother's three cousins got on the bus that morning. Two were lost and one survived. Jackie, Elaine and Juleen White. I know it is so difficult for my mom even today, as she says she will always remember that day. How it devestated not only her aunt and uncle, mother and grandparents, but the whole family.
I asked her to visit this site. It provided us an opportunity that we could share some valuable time. She talked of how the families all new each other, visited each other. Remembering all the kids about the same ages. How she spent time playing with the White girls, other kids, and all her family living in that area.
I'm glad my mother, grandmother and great-grand mother shared old photographs and memories with me when I was a kid. Being a mom now with girls about the same ages as my second cousins at the time, I will cherish this series. Even though I was not there, I can't help but read on. I see my girls in their photographs.
I'm hopeful someone from the White family was interviewed and will share their memories. I also completely respect their wishes if they have chosen not to do so.
I did not realize how strong my family members were having to deal with such a loss. I never heard any blaming, self pity or harsh remarks of anyone. I went to Arlington Elementary and later lived in LaSalle. I didn't realize where I lived as a kid was so close to where the accident happened. I have wonderful memories with my mom's family. It makes me sad since most of them have now passed on.
Is it possible that this full series will be available in print and/or video? I would like to have it as part of my family was involved. It just brings even more to light to me how precious life is. This is the only time you get. Make it the best you can.
Thanks to all the families for sharing their stories.
Posted by Traci on February 6, 2007 10:24 AMAlthough I do not totally believe in pre-destiny or star-crossing, I wonder as I read the stories of these individuals and the multiple tragedies that have affected their lives. It appears that many have suffered through out their lives much more than the normal person that we know from our daily acquaintences. Bless them all, Jesus, for they have suffered more than we shall ever know.
Posted by Larry on February 6, 2007 10:22 AMTo my knowledge, Duane Harms was found innocent because he followed the rules and regulations at the time. I hope Mr. Gift and Kathy do not go around disobeying the rules and regulations put in place now. Especially Mr. Gift, whom I believe is a firefighter. I wouldn't want someone in his position just making up his own rules if my life is in his hands. So to talk about what you would have done differently is easy with the benefit of hindsight. Regulations change constantly as we learn more and find better ways of doing things. "When you know better, you do better".
Posted by KW on February 6, 2007 10:12 AMTo my knowledge, Duane Harms was found innocent because he followed the rules and regulations at the time. I hope Mr. Gift and Kathy do not go around disobeying the rules and regulations put in place now. Especially Mr. Gift, whom I believe is a firefighter. I wouldn't want someone in his position just making up his own rules if my life is in his hands. So to talk about what you would have done differently is easy with the benefit of hindsight. Regulations change constantly as we learn more and find better ways of doing things. "When you know better, you do better".
Posted by KW on February 6, 2007 10:11 AMTo my knowledge, Duane Harms was found innocent because he followed the rules and regulations at the time. I hope Mr. Gift and Kathy do not go around disobeying the rules and regulations put in place now. Especially Mr. Gift, whom I believe is a firefighter. I wouldn't want someone in his position just making up his own rules if my life is in his hands. So to talk about what you would have done differently is easy with the benefit of hindsight. Regulations change constantly as we learn more and find better ways of doing things. "When you know better, you do better".
Posted by KW on February 6, 2007 10:06 AMDiana
Just one correction (it is so important for us to remember I have to make it) the US is not a Democracy but a Constitutional Republic. This keeps the majority from imposing its tyranny over the minority. Fascism stifles free speech. Also I personally do not disagree with you my point was an open mind is the way to go. I also admire and agree with forgiveness and letting go of hate and bitterness
.
Once again, Mary Brantner's eloquent post makes me step back and look at my life's reflection. I will be thinking about this Colorado family tomorrow... on the anniversary of Johnny's accident. May memories fill your hearts with peace. I am so looking forward to Chapter 17 ( Alive )- and hope to read that Mr. Harms has had a peaceful life. I also want to address: Mr. Gift & Kathy... Although I disagree with Mr. Harms being at fault- you have added spice to this discussion with your strong convictions....ones that have been thought out. Your hearts are good. If we were the jury back then- your opinions & mine would of hung it. But this is the American way- thank goodness! Every reader of this documentary wishes circumstances could of gone differently for all involved. Common ground.
Lil from Texas
May the peace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with us all. God bless you Mary Brantner. My prayers to the deceased and the living. Stop time at the crossings...
Posted by john on February 6, 2007 03:29 AMYou the readers have been given the chance to talk to some of the survivors . They are checking almost every day the comment page. You can ask real questions about the accident and probly get more then one of them to answer you. God gave humans the right of "free will" . That means every one has choices to make , good or bad . If we look at our own lives , doesn't each of us have choices we would wish we could change . No one is perfect . And Mr. Harms and the train crew are no different. On that day everyone had choices they made. Any one of those choices could have changed the out come. We can always look back and say I should of done this or I could of done that. But we can't change the past . All we can do is try and change what caused the problem in the first place.
We now have new rules for kids on the buses . And for the drivers who have to deal with the kids. Buses now are made better with less engine noise. And train crossings are better marked .
We all have opinions of the accident and we won't all agree on it. But new ideas can come from talking about it . If done in a constructive manner . The part of the series is coming up where they talk to Mr. Harms . You may get more insite to him and the choices he made that day.
Yes there where a few families who where hateful and anger filled their hearts . But they had just lost all their children in one instant . How would any of you handle it ? And they where not just angery at Mr. Harms , they where up-set with the train crew too. And with some of the kids that made it through . Why my child and not you ? Yes that question was asked , cruel as it was . But these parents where out of their minds in grief.
Free will and the choices we make every day affect more then just yourself. What you chose to think and say will make ripples through everyone around you. As my Daddy always said , think it out before you open you mouth to speak or act.An accident can be caused by what you do.
I would like to make a correction and an apology to my earlier post. I do realize through this story and these writings that the "whole" community did not turn their backs on Mr Harms. Lynn
Posted by lynn on February 5, 2007 11:24 PMI am so intrigued by this article, and by the families that are able to share their stories with us. This was a tragedy pure and simple. I believe our fates are predetermined. It all lies in the hands of God. Blame will get us no where, but as we've read faith,love and courage has led alot of these families to go on to lead fulfilling lives. This is a true memorial to those that died. I will never forget what Mrs Larson said about her son, "We were just so fortunate to have him." I can not imagine losing a child, but I would hope that my failth would also carry me through. I also think this was as devastating to Mr Harms as it was to the families that lost children. Imagine for one moment being in his shoes, then imagine a community turning their backs on you. Could his life and many others have been different if he had been surrounded with love,compassion and forgivness? Thank you to all the families willing to share their memories. I think we can all learn alot about the human spirit through this story. Lynn
Posted by Lynn on February 5, 2007 10:57 PMJust refreshing some of the past comments by Mr. Gift and Kathy, and so that John will take note. I believe that the posts went from outright blame to sarcastic and insincere overtones of forgiveness that Kathy and John hadn't seen before.
Diana and Mary...I laud your resolve and insightfulness.
Posted by quit pointing guilt, it was an accident on February 5, 2007 10:19 PMI'm with you too Diana... 100%
Just refreshing your comments to all...that there was immediate vindictiveness of placing blame and unforgiveness....and then the shallow attempt to placate all of us, including Mr. Harms with your attempt to provide forgiveness.
Posted by quit pointing guilt, it was an accident on February 5, 2007 09:47 PMMr. Gift - It looks like we are the minority. That does not mean that I am not sensitive to the entire story because I very much am. If I were driving my car in the same situtation I would not have crossed the tracks if I could not see and make absolute certain that there was not train coming. How about putting down the windows so that you can see without trying to look into a 2 inch space that is not frosted? How about getting out of the bus and checking. Although at the speed of the train, by the time you got back into the seat the put the bus in gear, the train could have appeared Why not put Jerry Hembry outside watching? Why not go another way. I agree that some punishment could have helped some of the parents. Accidents are preventable. There was just no excuse for this accident.
Duane Harms has lived with this all his life and I am sure that he has suffered bacause of it. But what about the families of the lost ones? They have suffered more than words can say. It doesn't surprise me that some of the parents were angry and confronting and issuing lawsuits.
Posted by Kathy on February 3, 2007 06:54 AM
Mr. Harms is to be forgiven.
He is a good person who has more than paid his debt.
My heart goes out to him and all the victims.
But I oppose blaming the railroad, or citing "God's Will", or "fate" rather than placing responsibility where it belongs - on personal behavior.
I tire of people being killed in auto accidents because they refuse to wear selt-belts, of people hit at grade crossings - then suing the RR, of people blaming conditions rather than slowing or taking additional measures to be safe.
When Chicago Firefighters went on strike, fires dropped drastically.
Why?
People didn't let them happen!
Take control of what you can, don't make excuses or blame God or fate.
Don't let preventable fires and accidents happen.
Posted by Robert Gift on February 4, 2007 08:02 AM
Posted by quit pointing guilt, it was an accident on February 5, 2007 09:33 PMI was born in Denver in Nov of '60 so am too young to remember this accident. I never recall my parents, who were pretty current-events savvy Individuals, mentioning this as well. My sisters who would have been 7 & 11 have no recollection of this either. Its like it was buried in Colorado history and that is a shame!
If this would have happened today, Mr. Harms would have no doubt been convicted of manslaughter on 20 counts and given the death penalty. The railroad engineer & fireman would have been convicted as well, after undergoing drug & alcohol testing, detecting they might have had a beer three days before the accident. And some idiot would have come up with a conspiracy theory that all three had conspired against the Auburn community to cause great pain & turmoil.
Praise God's name that it happened way back in the day when folks had faith in God's plan for them! Back when they put their lives & the lives of their children in God's hands. Not a bus driver's, or a train engineer's or a teacher's or a doctor's.
That's how those families have made their ways through many a tragedy. Not by blaming others, but by praising God!
I also find it disturbing that this incident has been widely ignored in Colorado's history. We all know about Alfred Packer & Molly Brown, but why not this man & these children?
Thank you RMN.com for bringing this important story to so many of us who never even knew it happened.
My heart goes out to Harms, but it was ENTIRELY, EXCLUSIVELY his fault.
Totally preventable. He should have done what was necessary to NOT place his bus in front of a train.
That is why I don't term this an accident.
Had there been fog or blinding snow, it would be more understandable IF he was for some reason unable to hear the horn. If unable to see or hear, I would NOT have crossed!
But a clear view and audible warning was available to him.
My heart goes out to everyone involved.
Posted by Robert Gift on February 2, 2007 11:03 AM
Posted by quit pointing guilt, it was an accident on February 5, 2007 09:31 PMHarms should have spent time in prison.
Then, when released, he could have felt he paid his debt to society.
And those angry at his being acquitted could be assuaged that he paid for their childrens' deaths.
Yes, I can imagine that he was exhausted from their newborn baby.
But a RXR crossing is the ONE time to overcome the fatigue and pay attention.
Posted by Robert Gift on February 2, 2007 10:58 PM
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Yes, I would have waited until conditions improved that I could see that no train was coming and hear that no train was coming.
If I could not see, I would not have crossed the tracks - not worth the risk - even though very slight - that a train was coming.
I would have driven to a RXR crossing protected by signals.
If none, I would done something as ridiculous as calling the police to come and direct me across.
The consequences are just too great to even take a chance.
Having driven a school bus, rather than look back through the passenger windows, which that oblique grade crossing required, I would have stopped, opened the door, stood in the doorway and looked and listened.
I assume that Harms, like most of us, assumed that the train had already passed - which is perfectly reasonable -it should have passed.
But we can't risk these precious lives with assumptions.
Posted by Robert Gift on February 2, 2007 10:39 PM
Posted by quit pointing guilt, it was an accident on February 5, 2007 09:27 PMI'm behind you 100% Diana.
John, You won't get me to play in your ball game either . My choice is still to skip over any comments listed by Mr.Gift, Kathy, and now you and not respond to them. It is not worth my time reading it. call me what ever you like, that also makes no difference to me. you do have the choice to skip over my comments . my case is closed.
Bless you, Lynda
Diana...kudos to you....no matter how you and I or the preponderances of the posts by survivors and their families of that day respond....we're not going to change their opinions. Realize that with education you can change ingorance, but you can't change stupidity. The case was tried, the jury deliberated, and the verdict was reached...innocent! How magnificent it must be to be self-serving and absolutely righteous with the benefit of hindsight...the indignity of their platitudes are abhorrent.
For those of us who have chatted with Mr. Vaughn, it is my interpretation of his purpose, intent, and goal of this story to re-tell the lives of those who died, who survived, their families, and the lives they live today with the impact of that tragedy. I don't remember that at any time, his story was titled "Who is to blame." Yet, there are a few of you who wish to have a re-trial of the circumstances that were litigated 45 years ago. As mentioned, if we believe in the judicial system and the investigations and decisions of that time, Mr. Harms was, and is, innocent. There is no "double jeopardy."
Good for you, Diana, well spoken!
Posted by Barbara on February 5, 2007 08:08 PMAt the risk of being a fascist jackanapes--i.e., a saucy and impudent child who puts, if my idea of what "fascism" entails is correct, my nation or race above individuals and who wants a centralized government--I want to simply say that I knew and cared about all the people involved in this story and simply wanted the hurt that I felt Mr. Gift and Kathy was inflicting on some of them, and on one person in particular, to stop.
A person can make his or her point, and all of us allowed each of them to and then stated our opposing opinions about their position back to them. And they were far outnumbered, which in a democracy usually means a lot since the majority rules. So that is what is allowed in the constitution.
But it is also allowed that finally the majority may say, "We have argued the point enough and we want to go on." And it also seems that the jury in 1961 should have put an end to that particular argument anyway, if one believes in our judicial system--no double jeopardy (remember that?)
It just seemed to me that they are the type of people who won't be satisfied until we all say something to the effect that we are all wrong and that we have finally had an epiphany and realized they were 100 percent right from the beginning. Well, I am sorry, we all are not going to do that.
So, since I am a fascist jackanapes, in John's strange choice of words, I will simply say that if I do see Mr. Gift or Kathy continue on their seeming vendetta against Mr. Harms, I will indeed be a saucy child and cover my ears, figuratively speaking, and say to myself, "I can't hear you." I hope every one does the same--including Mr. Harms, if he is reading this thread of comments.
Again, I never, never, knew any of my friends who were involved who felt he should have been convicted. The jury didn't either--and it wasn't a hung jury.
Posted by Diana on February 5, 2007 07:49 PMI do not live in Colorado and never have, but being a fan of the Broncos, I check the news sites almost daily. That is how I came across this heartbreaking story.
I have been reading "The Crossing" online everyday and then coming here to read what people are saying. I am shocked that some want to point fingers and relieved that others don't.
I want all the family members of the victims that to know that I am so sorry for your losses. I will continue to pray for each and every person that this accident effected.
For the victims, famiy members and friends that have been coming here, I want to thank you. I cannot begin to imagine how much this hurts everyday, but I admire all of you for having the courage to talk about it and share your lives with us.
I also would like to say that a memorial is an excellent idea and I hope it really happens.
Posted by Sara on February 5, 2007 05:37 PMWhether I agree with Mr. Gift or not I do believe in the constitution and freedom of speech. So let’s silence the Fascist ways of telling people to be quiet. If Mr. Gift had been disrespectful that might be one thing but he has been thoughtful and respectful. He makes some good points. Also people keep saying that is not the point of the story. Who are you to say what the point is for anyone else? This tragedy and story can be multi dimensional and to try and make it a one issue story and tell others what to feel and think is truly on the verge of being a comment founded by an individual bordering on being a jackanapes.
Posted by John on February 5, 2007 04:57 PMI had to return to the discussion today after reading Mary Brantner's post about her Daddy donating some of his land to make the road/ rail crossing safer. A noble deed. I have enjoyed reading Mary Brantner's & the Larson's thoughtful faith-filled comments & the other posts from members of the Auburn Colorado community. Joe Brantner was indeed a man of courage & inner strength. A hero. Thanks again for sharing your story & families with us.
Posted by Lil From Texas on February 5, 2007 01:01 PM Judge not any person unless you have walked in their shoes, the saying goes.I am a retired RTD bus operator and having driven transit buses for over three decades, I can tell you that no matter religiously you follow the rules and the procedures and no matter how careful and observiant you are, there is always somethings that slip through under your radar and blindside you. In my career I had my share of close calls, luckily they were just that ,close calls. The world is'nt a perfect place, as the bumper sticked says" **** Happens".
Not having been there at the time of this tragic event, all I know is what I read. What has happened can not be changed regardless of all the monday morning quarterbacking 45 years later.
Duane Harms I forgive you. You poor tormented soul, you have carried this terrible thing for over two thirds of your life. You will most likely never know peace on this earth but I hope others will join me in forgiving you. I know in my heart that those twenty dearly beloved children, who perished that terrible morning long ago, as they now dwell in heaven with our Lord forgive you. May God bless you Mr Harms and may he bless all the survivors of the children as well.
My Dad donated the land so the road would move father up along with the crossing . That's why it's now farther west . Daddy did it to make it safer for the crossing for every one who used it. Remember people ... he and mom still had to put their remaining children on the bus to get to school.
And my parents never blamed anyone for the accident . Not Mr. Harms and not the train people .
Please keep our family in your prayers and thoughts this week . Now some of you understand why I protect Mom so much . The anniversary of Johnny's accident is weds. and it's still hard for her. My brother Jimmy is not well . But I will forward all his old friends and neighbors wishes to him.
I also just feel so sorry for that poor bus driver. To have to endure this at the age of 23. In his defense, he was probably busy, once he stopped the bus and established that there was no train coming, no light, no whistle, he was probably busy, getting that wiggly gear shift to engage and getting that lumbering old crate to begin, from a dead stop, to begin creeping over the tracks. I would assume that it took awhile to get over the tracks. And even if he had gunned it when Jerry screamed Train!, he probably would have killed the engine. Those old buses are not like the sleek things of today. I am in my 50s, rode a school bus in the 50s and 60s. Like Michele said on 2/3, those buses ran loud.
As I read the interviews with the survivors today, I am praying for each one and for Mr. Duane Harms.
Kathy,
I agree with you that everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion. I don't think anyone who has posted here disagrees with that. However, to blame only one person so vehemently, while spouting off about how "I wouldn't have done that" or " I would have gotten out and looked" is ridiculous. I think people here have stated many times that none of us know what we will do until put in the situation ourselves. This story, again, is not about blame and so let's not make it into being about blame. There were so many circumstances that led to the accident that not one single person can be at fault. It was the whole situation that resulted in the tragedy. That is all anyone has said. To answer your last question, I am a family member of the people involved and I know my family never blamed Duane Harms, as evidenced by my grandfather testifying for the defense in the trial. So far, from all the postings and the stories, I think it's safe to say that most of the families didn't blame only one person. They believed it was a tragic accident that could have prevented by any number of circumstances being different, including the engineer hitting the emergency brake (which he did not do), the bus route being changed so it didn't cross the tracks at that point (which the city refused to do), etc.
I am following this documentary from Texas. I want to thank the families, friends & the adults who were children in '61 for sharing their personal photos & contributing to the videos. A powerful story of love. The Crossing in itself is a remarkable memorial but I do hope to read one day that a celebration of life & a commemorative plaque has been placed in memory of the children. Lil Purvis
Posted by Lil Purvis on February 5, 2007 09:16 AMI think it is quite interesting to see the entries from some of you. You claim to be forgiving, loving, understanding, compassionate people. However, you only want to see or hear the good things. Everyone is entitled to his own opinion and should be able to post right here along with everyone else without being asked to stop. If you don't want to read it then move on to something else. No one is forcing you to read anything. Just because a person feels that Harms was guilty doesn't make them a bad person. It doesn't mean that they are not forgiving or loving or understanding or compassionate. It simply means they feel he is guilty. A person can be guilty and still be forgiven. He Mr. Harms didn't do anything wrong, then he clearly doesn't need to be forgiven, does he? Don't forget that several parents of children on the bus also feel that he is guilty and some even sued him. To all those who feel that their opinions are the only ones that matter I would like to say that I am glad that you are so righteous.
I would like to say that there are many people out there that are guilty of one thing or another and are found not guilty. Ever hear of a hung jury?
I didn't read anything that said you could only post if you felt Harms was innocent and that everyone posting here had to be of the same frame of mind.
I am a forgiving, God loving person. I feel very compassionate for all the families involved. I am very saddened by the chain of events. That doesn't mean I can't feel Harms was to blame.
It was a preventable accident. Harms knows that if he had done things differently he could have prevented it.
We haven't heard from that many of the families involved. How many felt that Harms was guilty? not guilty?
Posted by Kathy on February 5, 2007 06:48 AMI am extremely pleased to read this series and be reminded of the greatness of family, friends and faith, especially in times of such great tradgedy.
Although I didn't grow up here in Colorado, I am around the same age as these children and grew up in a rural community such as this, and we did have a bus accident where a young girl was killed from my class. I can remeber the great outpouring of community, far greater than anything else.
It does my heart good to see the family members and classmates from this 1961 accident post here and offer their forgivesness, prayers and kindness to their fellow humans. Many of you should be thanked for your courage and faith. I hope God has blessed you in ways unseen by man.
Peace be with you and again thank you for adding human touch to this story. It is good to see in a world that has lost a lot of "helping your neighbor" and feeling of "community" as I have seen in this story and the posts.
Posted by EdPeterson on February 5, 2007 06:16 AMI re-read some of the chapters and found my answer to the stopping in LaSalle in chapter 5.
quote: The Union Pacific passenger train barreled across the snow-dusted countryside at 79 mph, covering the length of a football field in less than three seconds.
The streamliner was just outside Greeley, 2 1/2 miles from LaSalle, its last planned stop before Denver's Union Station.
And Now my question is (has been) answered..
2 1/2 miles away from it's next stop and at the speed of 79 mph. Lynda
Growing up in Julesburg, I remember as a child traveling by train from Julesburg to LaSalle to visit my grandparents in Brighton. We always traveled on the "City of Denver", my question-when did this train quit stopping in LaSalle? I was 16 when this event occured and I do remember going by train in 1959 to LaSalle. Does anyone have an answer to my question? I also remember how the trains would go through Julesburg and the crossings less than a mile apart the whistle should have been blowing continuously, which it was not. There have been many accidents at those crossings. I just pray that there is never another one.
To Linda Close, I am humbled by your asking for my input about a memorial. I will be e-mailing you and I would very much like to meet you and the other families and friends of those lives that this touched so deeply. To Mary Brantner your family sounds like a wonderful loving family. Please give your Mother a hug for me, (I do not know any of you) if I was there I would do it myself. If a memorial does take place,and I know, I will be there and I will hug her myself. To the Larson's, Ford's, and Yetter children and all the other children who have parents still with them please give them a hug from someone who cares.
take care of yourselves and know you have God's Blessings. Lynda
Mary,
I would love to fill you in on our lives. I feel bad about doing it here, however, since we were not there during the time of the accident. Here is my email--I will risk the crank mails I may get. If you email me, I will send a return update.
dianacroissant@hotmail.com
Posted by Diana on February 4, 2007 02:55 PMTo Linda, Nancy and Diana.....My Mom would like to hear from all of you . She wants to know how you are , what you have been doing, and all about your families . I will be with her all day tomarrow as they are going to go over Johnny's accident . And the anniversary of it is this week . She is holding up pretty good . But she doesn't read the series of the "crossing" at all. She wants to remember only the good times and happy kids . It was never a quiet house with 8 kids in it . Add our friends and it was loud and happy , fun place to grow up. She does wonder how all of you did after you grow up.
Posted by Mary Brantner on February 4, 2007 02:13 PMCindy & Lynda you both said things that I had thought about but said it much better than I could have.
There are a few of us that are chatting on here that have thought about have a memorial after this series is done, maybe on a Saturday afternoon when the weather is better. We would like to have your input in this and would like to know how the familys feel about it. The thing we want to show is that the people of the area around this accident still stand behind all involved and pray for them and the children. I for one will never forget this accident even tho I was a month away from turning 4 at the time. This is apart of the history and should be remembered as should the familys involved.
If you want to email me feel free to do so farmsweetie1958@yahoo.com or leave a comment on here. I read this everyday.
Thank you Linda
I believe Duane Harms stopped at the crossing, just as he had done every time before. He was concerned about the kids' welfare and safety. The fact that he can't actually remember whether he stopped or not is just natural; he was second guessing himself. We all do it. Did I turn the iron off? Did I feed the dogs? If it's a habit the answer is probably yes, you did. But if something goes wrong, you immediately start questioning yourself and wondering. Unlike so many people of today, Mr. Harms did NOT resort to blaming anyone else for this accident. To me, that speaks volumes of his character.
I have also noticed something else about the people who were directly affected by this tragedy. Those who had a deep faith in God were able to accept the pain and sorrow better than those with no faith. They trusted Him and knew that He was in control of their lives. Those without faith grew bitter and angry, which is a natural response but unproductive. Without God what really is the meaning of life and how do people without faith in Him survive something like this?
Posted by Trudi on February 4, 2007 10:16 AMIn my humble opinion of someone who was NOT there that day, there is some beauty that came of all of this pain. And one facet of it is showing in the posts where people who were personally affected by this (i.e. part of that community, or on the bus or lost a loved one) is the people reconnecting here and sharing stories and getting back in touch with one another. That illustrates perfectly the resiliency of the human spirit and I am humbled by seeing it displayed here. The larger world could learn much from that. Thank you to those of you who have shown us this.
It would never be for me to judge whether Mr. Harms was "at fault" as I was not there in the courtroom though it sounds as if there might have been several things that added up to a horrible mistake. And with all due respect to Mr. Harms, it appears from what we have read here that he has had continued personal trials over the years. I think the adage of not judging someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes is perfectly apt here. And it says something about him being a person of character that he looked beyond his own pain to try to see changes made safety wise for school bus traffic. We all owe him a debt of gratitude for that.
Most respectfully,
Cathy with a "C"
Posted by Cathy on February 4, 2007 09:58 AMI really didn't want to comment today, as I was thrilled that Linda made her comment. I agree with those who say we should now ignore this issue of guilt. I would have loved it if everyone would have let Linda have the last word.
But now it seems posters to this site have switched to the issue of forgiveness. Well I take offense that it is still directed at Mr. Harms.
I didn't want to talk about him since I didn't know him. I just knew many of the people who didn't blame him, who trusted him and felt empathy for him. Since I knew and trusted them, I believed they were right--as did the jury. He is older than I, but I face this story as the mother of a 25-year-old son. As responsible as he is, I would never let him drive a bus if I knew that one little mistake could destroy his life as it did for Mr. Harms.
Now here is my list of people who also need to be forgiven:
Whoever was in charge of the county roads at the time. Everyone knew that road should not face the tracks the way it did. No one wanted to take time, effort, or the money to do something so simple as change the angle of the crossing until after the fact.
The people on the train who could afford the fares to go barreling through people's lives but who couldn't afford until later to make sure crossing signals were in place to ensure the safety of the lives of the locals whose lives they ignored as they traveled in style at the time. It's the same today--the big money gets the law on your side. Yes, the law protected the railroad's rights. I'm not talking about the law, though. I'm talking about guilt and forgiveness.
The train personnel who couldn't see that their vantage point high up in the train going almost 80 miles per hour might have made their perspective different from that of people in a noisy bus lower on the ground coming to the crossing at probably 5 miles per hour at the most. How were they so sure?? They hadn't been smashed and knocked around, so they had time to be sure to make sure they could figure out a way to have a clear conscience. Mr. Harms reacted honestly and with a good conscience, while in a state of shock, without thinking about it in advance.
The school district that wanted the extra money for the students from the Auburn area, that asked a young, responsible 23-year-old to do something he seemed reluctant to do just so they wouldn't have to make a special effort to get it done, district personnel who didn't really check out what he had to do in regard to the crossings and didn't give him more clear regulations. People, read the documents you can access with this site. Mr. Harms later offered his experiences to help change situations like the one he faced driving the bus to make school bus passengers safer.
The lawyers--except for Mr. Harm's counsel--who like to make the courts seem logical by making it about the letter of the law, not the spirit of justice. I understand that the pain of loss was so great as to be unbearable. But honestly, no amount of money or of jail time could bring those children back. Instead of feeding off the pain, couldn't there have been a better way to try to help the families whose loss was so great?
Forgiveness can go far in all of this. Most of the finger pointing, it appears to me, comes from people not looking at the three fingers pointing back--as Linda so aptly put it. All the adults in the state at the time need forgiveness for the guilt they shared in this.
I agree now that we need to ignore these issues and concentrate on remembering the disrupted lives and the lost lives. That is how we should follow this series. These are everyday people--like all of us. They are the bedrock of our society. Let's remember them and honor them.
Mr. Gift, Kathi, please now go silent. We all know your thoughts. Let's move on.
Mr. Gift it's a relief to see the other side of you. You're first 3 sentences is a breath of fresh air. This is how a human being should feel. I also agree with the continuation of your post. We can take measures to make sure tragedys don't happen but after all we are all human and we can't prevent all unforeseen situations. At sometime in all of our lives, we can all say we wished we would have done something differently. But remember, hindsight is 20/20.
Posted by LC on February 4, 2007 09:01 AMI posted earlier that I drove a school bus for Dist. 6 in the early 1970's. I moved to Boulder and drove a school bus there also. Between the 2 school districts I drove for a total of 14 years. I was a bus aide or monitor for Greely for 4 years before acquiring my bus license. I drove those 14 years without a single ticket. But that does not allow me to judge anyone that ever received a ticket or that was involved in an accident. We are all only human and mistakes and errors will be made. In my years driving for Greely I don't remember anyone every saying anything vindictive towards Mr. Harms. If anything we had empathy for him, knowing what he had to live with for the rest of his life. I'm sure most people have a few "if onlys" in their lives. A good phrase to remember for anyone reading this story is "There but for the grace of God go I".
Posted by Deb V on February 4, 2007 08:50 AMMr. Harms is to be forgiven.
He is a good person who has more than paid his debt.
My heart goes out to him and all the victims.
But I oppose blaming the railroad, or citing "God's Will", or "fate" rather than placing responsibility where it belongs - on personal behavior.
I tire of people being killed in auto accidents because they refuse to wear selt-belts, of people hit at grade crossings - then suing the RR, of people blaming conditions rather than slowing or taking additional measures to be safe.
When Chicago Firefighters went on strike, fires dropped drastically.
Why?
People didn't let them happen!
Take control of what you can, don't make excuses or blame God or fate.
Don't let preventable fires and accidents happen.
I believe that Mr. Gift is thriving on all the attention he is getting from his comments. It seem that this tragic event has turned to Mr. Gift's opinion and his comments. I was taught "If you can't say anything nice about a person, not to say anything at all", and also "Not to judge others, as we too will be judged".
I ask that you DO NOT respond to his comments and he will have nothing to add to this discussion. He won't be able to argue with himself. When I see his name or Kathy's I just skip over their comments as I find them not worth reading. Don't play into his hand. As far as I'm concerned his and Kathy's opinion no longer counts. Ignore them.
I should, but do not remember this happening. A very well written story and it touches my heart reading about the families and friends getting in touch with each other again. This may be one reason this story has been written. May God Bless all the families and everyone whose lives have been touched by this tragic event.
Lynda
People, please use some common sense and realize that all of your arguing with Mr. Gift is just adding fuel to the fire. Just ignore him and he will go away. Your rebutals are as draining and distressing as his comments. I'm sick of reading all of it. All of you, quit clogging up the message boards with this crud and just let it go for God's sake!
Posted by Jody on February 4, 2007 12:40 AMRobert Gift:
Are you a firefighter who shows up to find the blame of a cause or treat the victims? After the past few weeks, I hope that you're not in my district...You are not what I know and respect of the New York Fire Department...who were there to"Protect and Serve" rather than "Find Fault and Sue."
A correction to my address to Mr. Gift and Kathryn...I apologize as it should be Kathy....the cohort to place blame on the "judicially innocent" and "morally innocent" Mr. Harms....my fault...
Posted by quit on February 3, 2007 10:52 PMMr. Robert Gift and Kathryn (categorically speaking to both of you)...Your early comments and questions were understandable as little was known about this tragedy by so many, even the survivors..but in the past few days, I know....if you would stop, turn your hate off, get off your judicious seat and climb down the stairs, take a minute to look all ways at the evidence and circumstances and testimony you're receiving and was heard in trials, and open your eyes to prevent the foggy and clouded vision, hear the blaring witnesses to Mr. Harms and the jury's decision of his innocence, you would pause and think twice before proceeding; just as you suggested he should have. However, it's obvious that you're not, so maybe we should believe that you're lacking in your vision, listening, and ability to make responsible decisions. Or .... maybe, just maybe, like you are of Mr. Harms....I'm too quick to judge you and your circumstances without understanding and realizing what brought you to the decision that you as the bus driver that day would have been so incredibly perfect, without blame, and without fault. However, I believe that you are deaf and blind to interpretting the circumstances of the tragedy and to the travesty that you are perpetuating on those who are reliving their experiences and communicating to you how it was then....that it was an accident and no one to blame. Your remarks to Mr. Harms about being forgiven are full of hateful sarcasm....and the ruthlessness, vindictiveness and hatefulness that you spew are evidence of your lack of inability and unwillingness to understand humanity. You are without peace, love and forgiveness. We're impressed that you elevate yourself to a platform of perfectionism; we could have only hoped that you were the bus driver then because you have all the answers that would have prevented their deaths...with such incredible hindsight....how magnicent you would have been then as your profess to be now. Unlike you are for Mr. Harms, I forgive you that you don't see, or hear what is so incredibly obvious to almost everyone here - the truth and facts are ...the tragedy was an accident, and Mr. Harms is innocent.
My last comment to you...stop, look, listen, ponder the comments and evidence you have before you. It is obvious to nearly all but you, but maybe you don't see or hear it either. Mr. Harms was found innocent. This IS NOT a story of blame...it's a story of living, dying, survival, pain, agony, healing, sympathy, compassion, the strength of a community and the resolve of the people affected that day. It is of forgiveness and love.
Posted by quit on February 3, 2007 10:31 PM
Great post Linda Larson- sister of Steve!
Like I said this documentary is intended to convey the human spirit's ability to love, remember and to forgive. Not who or what was at fault. Mr. Harms was acquitted- end of it. Move on. I just love the jury of '61- wow they got it right. Forty five years ago and they got IT RIGHT! I loved the ending of the chapter titled Verdict. I am sure Mr. Harms after so many years has found peace. You can't keep a good man down.
Good for you, Linda Larson, for expressing your very moving words of compassion for Duane Harms!
Barbara
Posted by Barbara on February 3, 2007 08:19 PM Reading some of these postings brings hurt to my heart and tears to my eyes. My pain is not for my loss or feelings, but rather for that poor young man that sat in the driver's seat of the bus. Fate put Duane Harms behind the wheel of the doomed bus on that very cold day of December 14, 1961. Another day, another time it could have been any one of us. There has been 45 years that Duane has been far away, hiding. He fled for peace he could not find among the people of Auburn community and the state of Colorado. He left the people that shold have embraced him, consoled him, shown hem compassion and love, and the greatest gift of all, forgiveness. Can any one of you feel the depth of pain and isolation this young man must have felt? Where were we at the time of his greatest need? Duane must have felt the pain and rejection that Jesus felt in his last days.
Duane, if you are reading these letters, I am very sorry for the hurtful ones. I know they are all painful and stir up bad memories, but I mean the ones that are hateful and mean. I wish I could blot them out so you would not get them. One thing that I hope you will remember is that all those pointing one finger at you, have three more pointing back at themselves. I know that those words do not erase the pain. God must have made you one of the most loving, mentally strong, bravest and kingest men to walk this earth. I cannot begin to know the depth of your pain, but I feel God has dealt you one of the worst hands of fate. How you have taken the abuse and criticism for 45 years without lashing out or retaliating is nothing less than saintly. I wish the people that never knew you, never saw you or have never met you, could feel the love that we, the bus riders, felt both for you and from you. I have spent 45 years wondering about you and your family and would like you to know I care. If you ever come to Greeley, I still live down that long lane on the South side of the county road, please come see me. Linda
How many of you finger pointers, out of love and caring, go to see the people you have harmed? Duane did just that. Duane went to the hospital to see my 11 year old sister to give her support and show his care for her life. She had tubes going in and tubes coming out. She knew nothing nor anybody. Duane was the first person that she recognized and communicated with. Is this the act of killer? I think not. This was the act of a loving, caring, compassionate man.
Linda Larson
I ain't perfect, so that pretty much narrows it down.
But as a school bus driver, at grade crossings I know how to look and listen for trains. It's easy NOT to be hit by a train.
Todays chapter (11) was very sad. Well, all the chapters are sad, of course, but I was aghast that one of the parents of a girl who was killed would say such a horrible thing to Colleen. Talk about the mother of all guilt-trips!
I'm sure parents of dead children might briefly think something like that to themselves, but that someone actually would SAY IT to a little girl already struggling with survivors guilt is beyond loathsome.
Colleen and LaDean, I admire your strength and faith. May God continue to bless you.
Posted by Flynn on February 3, 2007 06:43 PMRobin (2/2/07 10:00 pm) No one could have said it better. Good post.
Robert Gift (2/2/07 10:39 pm) you're either perfect or an idiot. I don't think you're perfect.
Posted by LC on February 3, 2007 04:04 PMI know I posted recently, but I've been feeling bad about not mentioning more about the two other people I knew best who missed the bus that morning.
Linda Larson and I were neighbors and friends all through high school. I know there were times my dad wished I could be more like Linda. She was--and I am sure still is--one of the most cheerful, hard working, helpful persons that I have known. There were several times she went out of her way to help me, and I have often wished I would have expressed how much I appreciated it.. I am so happy she missed the bus.
Larry from Sterling, who posted earlier, brought up the subject of Viet Nam. It is no surprise to me that today's article, which quoted Roger Reps, did not bring up that subject. Roger was decorated in Viet Nam. So when he said he thought it was just that his time hadn't come, that was not a thoughtless remark or an unfeeling remark. It was something he KNOWS. I can't imagine what he saw in Viet Nam--the boys whose time had come and those who were passed over. But one thing I feel pretty sure about is that Roger never did anything but quietly, bravely, and without fanfare, fulfill his responsibilities. Again, I am very happy he missed the bus.
I'm astonished at all the "would've, should've, could've" talk here. If anything, people - especially those who were not involved with this accident - should realize that talking about what one would have, should have or could have done is useless. Especially those who are talking about what they would have done if they had been in the same position as Duane Harms.
I think it's absolutely terrible for anyone to talk about what they could have done better than Duane Harms. There's no need to inflict more pain on people than the pain that already exists. Discussing the past in the form of informative, powerful writing is one thing; discussing the past as if you could have changed it is another.
Posted by Jen on February 3, 2007 11:59 AMI want to send a thank you to all of you who were (and still are) there are reliving it for us. I am only 35 and was not alive at that time. But my mom, my aunts and my uncle were from Evans and knew some of the kids on the bus. I still can not get them to talk to me about their memories. I do not blame them. But I am glad to hear about it. It makes me feel like I am getting to know more about their past. It takes a lot and the pain must unbarable at times. No matter what some people say I feel that there is no one to blame.
I live in Briggsdale now and I know about the county roads. Although we do not have any rail road crossings out here the road crossings are dangerous enough.
The other thing that needs brought up is the differences between buses in 1961 to the buses now. The buses engines are quieter, the heaters work better and the buses are better insolated. I just want to remind everyone of the advances made to keep all of our kids safer.
These are just a few things that I thought of while reading.
I remember this incident well as I was a 17 year old senior of Sterling Colorado High who had many friends in the Greeley community. For people like Roger who thinks that 33 articles is to much - just go to another site and not look at it. I had friends in the area and drove past that crossing hundreds of times and never felt that a thousand stories couldn't be told of that day. I met Duane Hrams several years later and could not believe how much it affected him. The trial should never have been as should the civil law-suits. This was purely a situation that was out of control by him and all other entities; rail road, state and feds. But he was the driver so therefore he took the brunt of the punishment. He couldn't remember if he stopped? I doubt if he clearly remembered any thing that happened that fateful morning and that is not his fault - it is called selective memory, we all get it in cases of severe traumatic events. I have selective memories of incidents in VietNam and believe that what he went through is worse than what I went through. Imagine, if you will, being involved in an accident where so many lives were lost ( and they were all young children) where you were the soul care-giver of them at that point. That has got to be the most tragic set of coincidences ever put into place by God or natural selection, however you choose to believe.
Posted by Larry on February 3, 2007 10:56 AMMr. Harms, you are to be forgiven.
The torment you have suffered all these years is worse than a prison term to pay your debt to society.
Because you know more keenly than all of us the unspeakable horror that can happen, I would trust you as a bus driver.
You would not take short-cuts many of us would.
You would do everything necessary to be safe.
A lesson for all of us is to not to claim "fate" or "God's Will" as an excuse, but take responsibility and do what takes to be safer.
As a firefighter riding up in an engine, I am amazed (appalled) at the "Darwin Award nominees" I see not wearing seat-belts.
Robert
medstatdenver@aol.com
Posted by Robert Gift on February 3, 2007 10:06 AMDear Mary (Brantner),
Thank you for informing us that Mr. Harms is living in California. While I believe that the News has covered this tragedy in a fair and compassionate manner, I felt that the concluding paragraph of Chapter 10 - "And many touched by the crash heard the same story: He'd killed himself." – was completely uncalled for. The author could have included the rumor when covering the later life of Mr. Harms, but to end a chapter in such a way, and to leave the readers to believe for days on end that the man may have taken his own life, was tasteless, inappropriate, and sensationalistic. The story is far too horrible as it is; there is no need for the News to resort to such tabloid tactics.
My thoughts and prayers go out to all of you who suffered through this unimaginable event and the pain that it left behind. Thank you for being brave and strong enough to share your story, and your lives, with the public.
Mary, please ignore Mr Gift. He has never make a mistake or been wrong and never will be. Any thing you or anyone else says to him will not change his opinion. Thank you for all your comments. DeWayne
Posted by DeWayne Drummond on February 3, 2007 09:34 AMI just googled and turns out there are 3 books about the March 1931 Blizzard and the Towner Bus Tragedy in eastern Colorado
36 Hours of Hell - By E.N. Coons.
A Light in The Window - By Georgene Pearson.
Lost in a Blizzard - Author Alyce M. Jenkins.
all 3 are available either through ebay, half.com, and amazon.com
(www.bookfinder4u.com is a great for locating out of print books)
I think the article was in a magazine - maybe Colorado Heritage.
Posted by Jean on February 3, 2007 09:17 AMMr Gift...you are missing the point of this story. We are not looking for a person to blame or someone to take the blame. We want people to understand that life is short and you need to value the people around you . Change your life for the better.
It's about love , caring and being the person God wants you to be . Not hate , or cruel , self centered . If that's all you get from this story...stop reading it . Spead your time doing something else . We don't want you to waste your time debating something that was in the past and can't be changed. I don't mean to be rude to you . Just ...think about the story as a way to improve your life and family. Go spend the day with them and enjoy them.
I just have to say thank to Mary Bratner and all other survivors who are sharing this story with the rest of us as well as your comments in this blog. I am intrigued as well as sad regarding the events of that day as well as the aftermath. I have been reading this story since it came out and I am amazed at some of the comments people are writing. Mr Gift, what would you have to say if Mr Harms was killed in the accident? Would you have anything positive to say about this series? I will pray for you.
My heart felt sympathy to all that are impacted by this accident. You are in my thoughts and prayers. Thank you again for showing us how powerful God is that he can help you through this situation as well as the love and friendship you have with the community of Auburn. I haven't seen or heard of a community in this day and age that shows such respect and support with their neighbors. I know I will be caring on that tradition. Love thy neighbor as thyself. God Bless
I am not sure if Colleen is checking this discussion thread; but, if she is, I want to her to know how sorry I am that anyone asked her that question so long ago. She should never have been told anything but how happy people were that she missed it.
We have to get off the subject of guilt. Only God has any idea about that--who dies and who doesn't in that sort of situation. I still like the analolgy of picking flowers to keep with Him.
Colleen may not remember me, but I didn't get to know her until she moved to LaSalle. We knew her as a very pretty girl, whom we were a lot jealous of because she was so darned pretty; but as was the case then--as so many of the comments show--we really weren't told much about her connection to the accident. We both lived on the Godfrey Bottom road; then I, ironically, moved from LaSalle to live in the area she just came from.
I didn't know Colleen well, but we did attend a new 4-H together. I also remember her great attachment to Banjo. I understand completely her sadness over her loss of him, too, because my animals become my best friend and my "children."
I grew to know Nancy, Linda, and Alice Larson better because we lived next to each other during high school.
I always thought how wonderful it was that some kids like Roger, Colleen, and Linda--the ones I knew best--had missed the bus. It was terribly sad that so many died and I always wished we could have talked about them; but it was also so wonderful that some, like Alice lived. There is no guilt to be found in any situation like this, as Nancy says.
I am happy to read that Colleen and her sister have been able to live good lives. They will meet their friends again someday, and it won't seem that time has passed at all.
Posted by Diana on February 3, 2007 09:05 AMThe Towner bus tragedy of 1931 where a bus of children got trapped in an unexpected late blizzard on the plains, and many froze death, immediately came to mind when I started reading this series.
I didn't realize there was a book. There was a long article with pictures/interviews a number of years ago in a magazine or maybe the Denver Post. The part that still haunts me is the girl who froze to death in her spring dress with her eyes open.
Posted by Jean on February 3, 2007 08:49 AMGood Morning,
I have read today's story about the two little girls who missed the bus that morning. I believe that God needed you on earth to complete something for him. Alice also wounders why she was spared. I don't know if you have talked with Alice lattley but she is a poet, story teller and writter, she can cook up a storm and is the kind of grandmother everyone wishes they have. As a friend she makes sure that you have the special gifts and cards that fit the need at the time. She has the greastest gift of just knowing what is need at the time. At Sunday school the childern will have that special treats to fit the bible lesson of the day. Girls God has a plan for you and maybe it is to share your feelings and greif. We do things differently today everyone would have gone to counciling ,at the schools, in the churches and even on the TV. The crossing is that counciling we did not get at the time.
I'm glad it is in our life time not when we are all gone.
You are pretty sanctimonious with your comments Mr. Gift, but the point is Mr. Harms felt that he did see. These are all possible reasons why he didn't, not thoughts he had at the time. I'm sure if he pulled up and thought "I can not see" he would have done some of the things you claim you would. You have the benefit of years of hindsight now, and laws that were passed since this happened. But if you were on the bus that day and opened the door and looked and felt that you did not see anything, you would not get out or turn around or any of your suggestions. You would proceed because you honestly felt that you had seen. I pray you never are in a situation where you feel you have done your duty only to find something awful happens anyway.
Posted by Judy on February 3, 2007 07:54 AMMr. Gift - It looks like we are the minority. That does not mean that I am not sensitive to the entire story because I very much am. If I were driving my car in the same situtation I would not have crossed the tracks if I could not see and make absolute certain that there was not train coming. How about putting down the windows so that you can see without trying to look into a 2 inch space that is not frosted? How about getting out of the bus and checking. Although at the speed of the train, by the time you got back into the seat the put the bus in gear, the train could have appeared Why not put Jerry Hembry outside watching? Why not go another way. I agree that some punishment could have helped some of the parents. Accidents are preventable. There was just no excuse for this accident.
Duane Harms has lived with this all his life and I am sure that he has suffered bacause of it. But what about the families of the lost ones? They have suffered more than words can say. It doesn't surprise me that some of the parents were angry and confronting and issuing lawsuits.
Mr Gift, I apologize. With respect, I mean to say that each on of us sits at a precarious threshold between life and death. The story and the gift that it holds is to cherish what we all hold true to our souls. I grew up in a farm town in Idaho and Trains rolled In and they rolled out. I grew up walking up and down the tracks. I put pennies on the track with my Grandmother and we always walked. I walked the tracks with my Grandmother and was amazed how swiftly the trains flew past.
When I was 18 my two Best friends were hit by by a train. They died on impact. I always thought it was odd that they never saw the train. But who am I to judge? I think of my Dear Friends every day and I wish that I could have been there to feel the train and to have been there to warn them. It is so easy to say that you could have been a better Bus driver on that day. But could you have been? Would you have been?
It is most difficult to read the comments of Mr. Robert Gift. At this point I sincerely believe that he intends to create and inflict harm and injury. I have been following the story "The Crossing" and my first thoughts on the accident that is was bound to have happened. The angle was too severe for a train and an road to cross. The crossing was changed after the accident which means that it was not safe to begin with. At this day I would, without a doubt, trust Mr. Duane Harms with my children in a school bus. I think that each and every one one of us are take each day in our own hands.
Posted by Mary Howard on February 3, 2007 02:30 AMHarms should have spent time in prison.
Then, when released, he could have felt he paid his debt to society.
And those angry at his being acquitted could be assuaged that he paid for their childrens' deaths.
Yes, I can imagine that he was exhausted from their newborn baby.
But a RXR crossing is the ONE time to overcome the fatigue and pay attention.
Yes, I would have waited until conditions improved that I could see that no train was coming and hear that no train was coming.
If I could not see, I would not have crossed the tracks - not worth the risk - even though very slight - that a train was coming.
I would have driven to a RXR crossing protected by signals.
If none, I would done something as ridiculous as calling the police to come and direct me across.
The consequences are just too great to even take a chance.
Having driven a school bus, rather than look back through the passenger windows, which that oblique grade crossing required, I would have stopped, opened the door, stood in the doorway and looked and listened.
I assume that Harms, like most of us, assumed that the train had already passed - which is perfectly reasonable -it should have passed.
But we can't risk these precious lives with assumptions.
To the post 2/2 8:49pm:
I think if you read the mass majority of this thread very few people blame the young bus driver for this accident..... if Mr. Harms hadn't stopped... hadn't slow down.... and drove through the crossing with reckless disregard the accident may not have happened- a twist of the tragedy? Read Mary Brantner's, Pete's, Tamara's and many more of the beautiful words and memories that have been posted. This documentary is intended to convey the human spirit's ability to love, remember and to forgive. Not who or what was at fault.
As I read the comments here I have to wonder how many tossing around blame have ever sat in the driver's seat of a school bus? A train? I recently visited the site, because as a bus driver, I too wanted to place blame. I couldn't imagine how you could miss a train. Until I saw where the crossing was. Sitting there in my car(I pulled across the road, facing the same way as the bus was then) I could see how Mr. Harms couldn't see the train. I live in LaSalle, on 85, right across from the train tracks. Some days I can hear the whistles all the way from Gilcrest to Greeley. Other days, I only hear the ones right across the street. I don't know why, maybe the wind is blowing the wrong way. I do know that people underestimate what bus drivers do. It isn't just driving the bus. You have to look 10 different ways, watch for road hazards and Billy's lunch. While your telling Johnny to sit down, Sally's jumping in another seat. Even today, windows in buses fog up. Even today, you can sit at the track waiting for the kids inside to be quiet. Even today, ACCIDENTS happen. To place all the blame on one person is ludicrous! Mr. Gift while I respect your opinions, I am not sure what you would have done. Would you sit there till school was over? Turn the bus around? Mr. Harms and the 16 year old in the front seat, did not see or hear the train, until it was too late. The people in the train saw the bus, and said they hoped it stopped. I know nothing about trains, but I wonder if they had just held the whistle down, or hit the brakes, could it have helped? Might they have been able to slow down the MPH it took to save that 63 inches? We will never know. This ISN"T about that. It is about a terrible tragedy, that from reading this article has affected not only those who lost loved ones, but an entire community. My thoughts and prayers are with EVERYONE who was affected by this. All the families, the drivers of the bus and train, and all those who came after. The ones who lived with the loss of a loved one, and those who never had a chance to know them.
Posted by Robin on February 2, 2007 10:00 PMTo all of the people that think Duane Harms is was at fault for what happened to those poor children, you are all idiots! It is no ones fault that this tragic event happend. It's just something that god had planned. I rode the bus when i was little and it would drive over those same exact tracks and it is very hard to see a train when the windows are frosted and especially at the angle the bus was stopped at. It is no ones fault especially not Mr. Harms so stop blaming him the poor man has been through enough.
Posted by on February 2, 2007 08:49 PM I have been reading this series since the beginning. It is fascinating and tragic all in one. As a mother I hope I never have to go through what the parents in Greeley did. At 9 years old and again at 17 I lost two best friends in car accidents. To this day, I think about them, how my life would be different if I had not endured such a tragedy (and it did affect me) and I wonder about the individuals who caused these deaths.
I admire the survivors and their families for sharing their stories. I am fascinated by the accident as well as their memories of growing up in Greeley. It sounds like a wonderful childhood and I envy the close relationships so many of you had.
I hope that the survivors, including Mr. Harms, found peace. While some may think he deserved a prison term, the grief he carries for his part in this accident is a burden I would wish on no one.
Thank you to all for rhis chance to learn more about your life.
The people that continue to look for someone to blame will probably never get it. The story is about celebrating the lives of the people that were involved in the accident. The mother that was so happy to talk about her son. For that moment in time her sons' spirit is alive and touching each of us. I picture his excitement... driving down that road. I pray that God helps the people that were involved to deal with it being told again. Thanks for sharing your lives with us.
Posted by Tamara Manthey on February 2, 2007 04:33 PMThank you Mary Branter for your meaningful posting today at10:36 AM. Very well said. Our hearts and prayers go to each one effected by this terrible accident. One's faith helps to heal the pain and suffering. Placing blame is very unfair.
It saddened me to hear of this accident the day it happened. I was a student at CSU in Fort Collins.
Jerry Bertchie
Posted by Jerry Bertchie on February 2, 2007 03:59 PMI am a north Weld native born and raised. I remember the accident due to being a neice to Keith Blue. My heart goes out still to all the families in this accident. Mrs. Paxton: please find it in your heart to forgive this young man who suffered along with you on your loss. I know it ate at your husband, please search for GOD and find some peace with this. 9 11 was no accident, this was.
Posted by Sherri on February 2, 2007 03:00 PM This story has intensely captivated my attention - and I'm not one who easily emotes. This accident happened before I was born, so I obviously don't remember it and I don't recall ever hearing the story - but my family is 4th generation Coloradoan so I called my mom and asked her about her recollection of the accident, her initial reaction, and thoughts about the current series.
I received a very short response. My mother remembers it well - she was pregnant with me at the time - and was obviously grief-stricken for the families. However, she said that she avoided all news and conversation about the accident after it happened because she said it hurt too much to even contemplate it. She felt that if she delved into the story it would simply be too disturbing and painful to ever let go of it. For that reason, she's avoiding this current series as well.
After contemplating my own reactions to this story, I think she has it backwards. There is a possibility - however remote - that I or any one of us could some day be faced with a personal tragedy of this magnitude. I believe it is important to understand how people react to tragedies like this, how they work through their anguish, and how it can change their lives for better or for worse. When one shelters themselves from certain realities - however ugly they may be - they essentially waive their opportunity to learn something that may well benefit them (or someone close to them) at a future point in life.
Thank you to the Rocky Mountain News for not only telling this story, but for telling it in a manner that is dignifying to those most closely affected by it. My deepest prayers are with those children who died.
And to Mr. Harms, if you are following this: From what I have gathered from this story, I believe that you are an honorable man. Mistakes happen, but that doesn't take away the pain, and you have had to endure that for a lifetime - more punishment than anyone should ever have imposed on them. God has a special place for people who bear such overwhelming burdens.
The City of Greeley Museums are pleased to host a special free program on "The Crossing" on Feb. 21. Kevin Vaughan and other News staff will tell more about their research for this series, their decision to depart from the traditional "breaking news" aspect of reporting to focus on the long-range perspective and interpretation of such a life-changing event. They will share photographs and video interviews and leave time for a question and answer session afterward. The program begins at 7 p.m. at the Union Colony Civic Center in Greeley and is open to the public. For more info, visit www.greeleymuseums.com
I haven't commented here since the first day or two of the series. I've since read all of the first posts and those since. A few of my thoughts:
Remember that at Harm's trial, the charges and instructions to the jury were very, very specific. Whatever you may feel about blame and/or "guilt" in this tragedy, you should remember that Harms was acquitted of the charges that were filed. Nothing less, nothing more. Innocence and blame are not even part of the process. And at this point (Chapter 10), readers don't know the outcome of the civil lawsuits.
Though I'm moved by Vaughan's series, I am also interested in the comments in this blog. Except for the few inappropriate posts, I really am amazed by the memories of folks not interviewed for the story or who are more distantly related to the incident -- as I am.
Mary Brantner -- Thank goodness for you! At first, I thought you were dead set against this series because of the pain for your family. As I read your comments, I can see that you know so much about this and have really enlightened the story. Take care of yourself, your family and your memories. I hope you can turn the outpouring of support in to some comfort for your mother.
Ken
With all due respect Mr.Robert Gift unless you were there you do not know who was at fault. Come to think of it the people who were there do not agree on what happend. How many of us has had to face the situation of a crossing at that angle and a train going 79MPH. The train was in a hurry maybe he did not blow the whistle correctly. Point is we can speculate all day it doesn't change anything nor is it productive to worry about blame at this time.
Posted by John on February 2, 2007 01:10 PMI have been following this series daily and been trying to put into words how I feel. First of all I grew up about a mile and half away from the sight of the crash. We crossed those tracks daily of course it has been redone. Growing up in the country I rode the bus daily. We crossed over three different tracks on our route to school. Many times the windows were frosted over in the winter or it was so slick that the bus was a crawl trying to cross the tracks. I remember our bus driver stopping taking the bus out of gear opening the door listening than shutting the doors putting it back in gear and proceding over the tracks never relooking to see if it was still clear to proceed. This would take a few seconds to do. Could this have been the different between life and death? We will never know. It was an accident. My heart goes out to everyone this has affected. My kids know ride the same route as I once did. I know you can never understand what it feels like to go through something like this until you have walked in their shoes. You can judge and point blame, but to really judge and say this is how I feel you can not. People today do not understand what a farming communty is like. We may not get together like they did back then, but we still step up to the plate when one falls ill or needs a helping hand. I do have to say that I am proud to say that I grew up in this area and I am glad that my kids get to learn first hand how to work hard and appreciate what they have.
Posted by Jamie on February 2, 2007 12:18 PMI've been very touched by the series The Crossing. The accident and its aftermath are very powerful parts of Greeley history. Perhaps I've missed the answer, but I'm curious to know what the school district 's reaction was the accident and how they treated Mr. Harms.
Posted by Noelle on February 2, 2007 12:10 PMAll of those concerned with this tragedy were victims of a perfect storm.
Posted by Dick Dedrick on February 2, 2007 11:59 AMI have read all the posts to date, and if I were to comment on them pros and cons there wouldn't be enough room. so to put as simple as I can, (IF FORESIGHT WERE AS GOOD AS HINDSIGHT) we wouldn't have a lot of these so called accidents
Posted by Lyle on February 2, 2007 11:55 AMThank you Ms. Brantner. Very well said!
Posted by on February 2, 2007 11:16 AMEach and everyone of us who are reading this story and discussing this story are human. By virtue of being human, we make mistakes. Sometimes those don't impact our lives much and other times they do, with tragic results. We weren't there that morning so none of us truly know what happened.
One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is the possibility of fatigue on the part of the driver. He had a three week old baby. I have been blessed with three children myself and I can tell you that at three weeks with a new baby I was EXHAUSTED. So just maybe he wasn't 100% but he and his wife were young and no one had heard of family leave then and I am virtually certain that they needed the money that his job provided. So who do we "blame" there? Our society for not better supporting our new families? The breakdown of the extended family? Accidents happen. It is sadly that simple. What we can take away in the example that I am using is that if you know someone with a new baby or child or an ill family member, offer your help by bringing a meal or caregiving so that the caregiver can get some rest. It really DOES take a village.
Posted by Cathy on February 2, 2007 11:09 AMMy heart goes out to Harms, but it was ENTIRELY, EXCLUSIVELY his fault.
Totally preventable. He should have done what was necessary to NOT place his bus in front of a train.
That is why I don't term this an accident.
Had there been fog or blinding snow, it would be more understandable IF he was for some reason unable to hear the horn. If unable to see or hear, I would NOT have crossed!
But a clear view and audible warning was available to him.
My heart goes out to everyone involved.
Mr. Harms is living in California....
you will probly hear more from him later on . Mr.Vaughan did visit him there . Mr. Harms deserves sympathy as well as good wishes. He has had a hard life . It wasn't his fault ...it was an accident. You readers really need to think what the rules and laws where different back then . Things have changed over the years. The bus rules we have now came about because of this accident. So have the way they set up rail crossings. God has a plan for everyone . Maybe when you get to heaven you can ask God why things like this happen. Look around and see how we treat people now. Do we use manners? Open doors for people ? Be considerate , loving , caring of someone else . We rush from one place to another and don't take time to enjoy people we may meet. When was the last time you got all your neighbors together for a picnic? Do you visit with them...help out when someone is sick . That's the kind of neighborhood we had out there. Everyone cared and helped out each other. My daddy was hurt ,broken bones , and the neighbors came and milked the cows twice a day . They did it because they knew that if it was them Dad would do the same. Farm life is hard . And farm families do what it takes to survive . You don't try to find blame with anything . You find out how to fix the problem and do what it takes to make it through . What the survivers went through was hard and it took a long time. But Love and caring about each other is what our community did then and does now. What we hope you learn from this is don't take people for granted . Show friends and family how much you love them every day . Be kind to strangers and people you meet . For you know not when God will say it's your turn . You may only have today . Make your life worth it . All the worldly things you own won't count when you pass. You can't take it with you . But you can leave those left behind with happy memories and loving thoughts .
Hi Wilma Wadsworth,
Ironically, I was thinking about you a few days ago. My mother is Janice (Altergott) Alles. You two were good friends during the 70's when we lived in Greeley.
I thought about writing something informative about the old Auburn school - that your parents purchased the place... etc. So, it is ironic that you wrote here-within about it.
I would like to tell you about my mother. If you wish to contact me, you can visit my web site at http://www.AdvertisingByDesign.com and use my business e-mail address. Please type, "THE CROSSING" in the subject field box so I don't accidently dump your e-letter along with all the many pages of spam and junk mail I receive. Because I already receive a lot of junk mail in my business e-mail, I don't publicize my private e-mail address.
Wilma, thanks for sharing.
Posted by Felicia on February 2, 2007 10:15 AMDear Pioneer
That brings back a lot of memories!
You mentioned KIMN -- In the spirit of nostalgia, here's some of the songs all we kids were listening to in December 1961:
Please Mr. Postman -- Marvelettes
Goodbye Cruel World -- James Darren
The Twist -- Chubby Checker
The Lion Sleeps Tonight -- Tokens
Big Bad John -- Jimmy Dean
Happy Birthday Sweet 16 -- Neil Sedaca
Tonight -- Ferrante & Teicher
Peppermint Twist -- Joey Dee & the Starlighters
Runaround Sue - Dion
Fool #1 -- Brenda Lee
Moon River -- Henry Mancini
Crazy -- Patsy Cline
When I Fall In Love --The Lettermen
Can't Help Falling In Love -- Elvis
We're left hanging on Chapter 10. Did Duane Harms kill himself? I am hoping the author did his research and we find out the truth of the unfortunate young bus driver's fate- not just rumors.
Posted by questions remain on February 2, 2007 08:40 AMI have enjoyed reading the article of what happened that day. But, did they ever charge the Union Pacific with anything? Or did they get off with nothing. It seems that some parents blamed only the bus driver. Believing the train engineer and firemen before beliving the children on the bus.
Posted by Cj on February 2, 2007 08:21 AMSince we are going back several decades in time,how about a light hearted interlude. All you natives and old time Coloradons and Denverites, see if you can remember.
KIMN radio and Pogo Poge, brodcasting from the snake pit. Crusing on 15th and 16th streets downtown. Before the mall of course,in fastback Mustangs and 409 super sports and 426 HEMI mopars, who cared premium was only 25 cents a gallon. We were more concerned with Buster Snider the ticket writting motorcycle cop(he arrested Sony Liston once).Remember the Scotsman drive in on Federal, the Holiday Drive in chain who's motto was they were open 25 hours a day. How about the Rockybilts and the tamale wagon at Colfax and Broadway.remember going to the movies downtown taking Denver Tramway? The Denver, the Center, the Paramont, theRKO Orphum. How about shopping at the Denver Dry of Neusteaters or Joslins or Monkey Wards on South Broadway. Remember Carl the giant doorman at the Daniels and Fisher store ?
How many of us were on tv with Sherriff Scotty or Fred and Fae( remember Wally the Weather Gator)
Remember the Pizza Oven at 6th and Sherman across the street from channel 7 when they were known as KLZ"tell em Dick Lewis sent you" How about Carl Akers and Starr Yelland and Warren Chandler and Art Gow and his organ to name a few.
How about Celebrity sports center and the Cooper Theater on Colo Blvd. Remember when The Univ of Denver had a football team and The Denver Bears base ball team and the DC Truckers basketball team. How about going to see Dick the Bruser and the Crusher in the pro rassling matches at the Auditorium Arena. There were the woodsies at Castlewood Dam and Daniels Park(don't forget the church key) They even flew at Lowry Air Force base and had some great open houses and air shows on armed forces day every year.
I could go on and on, but we'll stop here. I'm sure a lot of you can remember much more from your personal memories. Hope we've got you to reminising.
This excellent story continues to send chills down my spine. I started driving a school bus in Virginiawhen I was 17, and continued so for the next 17 years, including 8 years in Denver. I can remember people asking me "How do you handle the responsiblity?" I always answered that you do the best you can and hope nothing terrible happens. This story shows how everything can go wrong despite ones best intentions. Having driven a GMC bus similar to this one, I know the engine and heaters can be loud, plus, kids talk on the bus, the windows are impossible to keep clear on a cold day, and then the angle at which Duane Harms had to see the tracks -- I just think "Wow " how much could possibly have gone wrong.
I want to thank the Rocky Mountain News for publishing this story and hope it is edited into a form that is offered to every school district in the country for school bus driver training. I also appreciate all of the surviors of this horrible accident who have contributed to this message board. Your stories added so much and broght back to life the memories of those who did not survive.
Accidents do happen. But when they happen it is usually because someone wasn't doing what they should have been doing. I think this is a great story, well written and riveting. However, it is a fact that one person was responsible for getting those children to school safely and that was Duane Harmes and he didn't get the job done. It is easy to be overly confident when driving down the road. There were a lot of variables involved here but that doesn't take away the responsibility of the driver of the school bus to do everything in his power to make sure the crossing was absolutely safe to cross. I am deeply sorrowful for the tremendous loss that occured that day but can't help but think that the bus driver was at fault. I won't go so far as to say that he should have gone to prison because I am sure that he lives this every single day of his life. I am certain that he wishes he had done more. He knows he was to blame and that is penalty enough.
Keep up the good work. I wish I could read the entire story at once.
Tony
Actually there were two United flights that originated in Denver that crashed in 1955. The first was in Oct and was a DC-4 that crashed in Wyo. The second was the one you mentioned, flight 629 which was blown up buy John Gilbert Graham. near Longmont.
The 1961 crash was a DC-8 that had a mechanical failure on landing at Stapleton on July 11.It was flight 859 that had originated in Philidelphia. If you go to wikipedia there is an article titled United Flight 859. I remember viewing the wreckage from the fence near Stanley Aviation. on the south side of the field.
This is such a well written story and I like to extend my sympathy to the families and to Mr. Harms of this tragic that happened in 1961. I would like to say that I don't think it was the train or Mr.Harms fault that the accident happened. After looking at the photos, I was wondering perhaps, if it was the State fault for poorly designed roads.
Posted by on February 1, 2007 11:57 PMReading "The Crossing" has answered a lot of previously unanswered questions and brought back a lot of sad memories but also a lot of wonderful memories of Auburn School.
First I would like to say that the parents and children of Auburn School didn't want to close our school and be bused into Greeley. We didn't have a choice (progress?).
Attending Auburn was like being part of a large family. The parents all knew each other and the kids.
Some of my school memories are of our teachers, Christmas programs, and our recesses. We had swings, merry-go-round, and teeter-totter (as we called them) but we were good at entertaining ourselves... playing 'fox and geese' in the snow, 'jacks' (girls) when it was too cold outside (we only wore dresses in those daysl), and there was always baseball. There weren't enough boys for two teams so the older girls played at times. One warm spring day our baseball team (all boys since they only needed one team) were going to play against Delta School so one of the students father drove his farm truck to the school and picked us up (older classes) to take us to Delta. We all rode in the back of the farm truck and on the way to Delta School he stopped the truck next to a field of watermelons and our teacher (Mr. Moore) told the older boys to go get us a couple of watermelons. He let us believe they had pulled something over but later we learned Mr. Moore had arranged it with the farmer previously!
And, I don't think any of us could forget the boys tumbleweed houses. The girls weren't allowed to see in them...but we did, when we left class to use the outhouse!! Ha ha! Then some of the kids got head lice from the gunnysacks used to cover the windows and doors and they had to destroy them. They were really neat too!
I was in the 7th grade when we began riding the bus to Greeley so the 6th grade was my last year at Auburn. Our class had 10 students and was the largest of the eight grades at Auburn that last year I went. My classmates were Jimmy Ford (died), Linda Walso (died), Kathy Heinbuck (died), Cheryl Brown (injured), Colleen Yetter (missed bus), Roger Reps (picked up by neighbor while waiting for bus), Barbara Luark (waiting for bus that never arrived), Linda Larson (home sick that day), Patrick Johnson (moved as mother taught at Auburn), and Wilma Wadsworth (that's me and we moved to Evans in February 1961). Marilyn Paxton joined our class the first year we were bused (died in accident).
I had five siblings that also attended Auburn. They also had friends involved in the accident.
Our parents bought Auburn School in 1966 for a warehouse for their furniture business then later remodeled it for a home where they lived many years. They named it El Auburn which it still remains today. The school is 3 miles East of Evans on Weld County Road 54.
I would like to tell my Auburn friends (parents included) hello and would love to read more about their memories.
Dear Quit
When I said earlier that Mr. Harms was ultimately responsible, I meant purely in the legal sense, which is why he was the one who had to stand trial.
I do not think he was responsible in the moral sense, for the very reasons you've cited. Obviously the jury felt the same.
I'm glad he was aquitted. He was a very kind fellow who cared a great deal for the children in his charge. He and the children were victims of an unfortunate chain of circumstances triggered by a simple mistake.
Posted by Flynn on February 1, 2007 10:03 PM(Now that we have two Tony's, i'm the one from 1/28)
Someone mentioned the airliner crash. That happened in 1955. It was United Flight 629 from Denver to Portland. My wife got me a book "Mainliner Denver: The Bombing of Flight 629", by Andrew J. Field. Another captivating read - once you start it you won't be able to put it down.
The site of that event is east of Longmont.
Posted by Tony Priborsky on February 1, 2007 09:48 PMI'm sorry to keep ragging on this, but I think you are all missing the point of this.
45 years ago a terrible thing happened.
45 years from then life goes on.
Some wish they could forget. Some wish they couldn't remember.
But the terrible memories can't go away. Nor should they.
This is a powerful story of healing.
Not blame. That was decided 45 years ago.
What wonderful photographs of Bruce Ford and Juanita and Art.
I can't imagine how hard this must have been, but nine days into thirty three I can't say how thankful I am that you are willing to share this with us.
The Crossing is an excellent documentary. This tragic event cemented a community forever in it's grip. These were strong people who embraced their tremendous lost with love,support and compassion. The photos exhibited in Chapter 9 taken from the inside of a 1961 school bus showing the sharp angle of the road buffering the tracks are compelling. I can see how this accident happened- frosted windows, bus pole obstruction, noisy children against howling prairie winds mimicking a train's whistle and a misaligned road. A road and a track that should have been constructed differently. Maybe the bus driver should of been instructed: when you come to this crossing...you take a step outside and you look.....you listen. Hindsight. Time never truly heals. You just can't change tragic events. You learn to live with them. I am thankful that the majority of the Auburn community supported the young driver but who would of expected anything different from such outstanding men and women. My heart goes out to Duan Harms... 23 is awfully young to be burdened by such weight and guilt. I hope we learn that his life was a happy one in later chapters.
Posted by Tony on February 1, 2007 09:31 PMThis story is so powerful. I have been reading it everyday online. I have lived in the area about 5 years, but never heard anything about this horrible accident. Some of the comments I have read are amazing to me. This was an accident, no one was at fault. This isn't about fault, it is about remembering those who lost their lives, and those who lived without them. Maybe if people today were more like the people in this story, our world wouldn't be what it is today.
Posted by on February 1, 2007 07:39 PMFlynn;
I didn't challenge you on your questions as we all have them. But you accused the bus driver as being ultimately responsible..and I tried to suggest that there are so many variables that you can attribute to the tragedy....that it isn't fair to place the blame on him....which the courts didn't either. There are so many mitigating circumstances that contributed to that day....one second faster or 15 seconds later...
I truly appreciate all the questions that you ask as have many of us over the years....but please understand that the mindset of finding fault and blaming others is so much different between then and now. Yes, there were a few lawsuits then...but not near as many as there would have been today..only because people accepted tragedies like this as an accident or fate of God. I encourage you to ask as many questions as you like. However,t with the people that lived at that time and in that area and with the Christians beliefs that we had then as now...please understand that our faith in God is much stronger than our determination to find fault in the court system...which has evolved to what it is today, almost 50 years later. Duane Harms had no intention of killing those children that day...nor did the engineer, or the people who delayed the train with Christmas mail......etc....I hope that you understand that there is no ultimate responsibility for this accident.....as I told Mr. GIft, there are so many decisions we could make otherwise, with the benefit of hindsight. Please understand that I have many questions about that day as you....and so many unanswered until now, much as the survivors have suggested. I honorably plead that with the culmination of this story that we celebrate the lives of those who died, survived, lost family, and all who were affected by this horrific loss.
Several years ago I was substituting at Mountainside Elementary at Fort Carson. One day I got to see first-hand the seriousness which the Fountain-Fort Carson School District placed on student saferty crossing railroad tracks.
This day we had a field day at the high school football field in Fountain.
Since the children's regular bus routes did not go across railroad tracks, the driver of this special bus gave them the School District rules on buses crossing railroad tracks before we left the school. When the bus came to the tracks the children and adults on the bus would be totally quiet. The bus would not move from its stop in front of the tracks until this happened.
Then the driver opened his door and looked both ways as the bus crossed the BNSF and Union Pacific tracks.
These tracks were guarded by electric crossing lights and gates and crossed at a 90-degree angle,
~~
Also, I am sorry to say that Mr. Sommers was killed a few years later when a gasoline tanker drove out in front of his train.
"Sommers" is of German origin, since it means 'summer' in German.
What that has to do with anything is beyond me.
Posted by Flynn on February 1, 2007 05:37 PMTo Hogar De Vuelta 02/01/07 11:30.
I do not know the origin of the surname Eng. In the context of this discussion thread, I can't see why anyone would care. However, since we have digressed to this point, perhaps you would be so kind as to explain what (العودة) is?
Posted by on February 1, 2007 04:51 PMMr. Harms, if you are following this string, I hope that through the years, you have found peace in your heart.
God bless you, the families, the injured and the memory of the twenty beautiful spirits that soared into the arms of heaven on that cold day.
Peace to all.
Posted by Rascal on February 1, 2007 04:13 PMI can't believe how I am ready to read the next chapter everyday. I think so far it has been written so well. My heart just goes out to everyone.
Posted by Margie on February 1, 2007 01:45 PMPlease forgive me for intruding on this thread with an off topic question, but I have been trying to find out the country(ies) of origin for the surname Eng. Does anyone know?
Posted by Hogar De Vuelta (العودة) on February 1, 2007 11:30 AMTimes have changed. Duane Harms openly expressed his sorrow. He even visited Alice Larsen in the hospital. Think any attorney today would allow his client to do such a thing?
Dick Dedrick
Posted by Dick Dedrick on February 1, 2007 11:06 AMTo the lady or gentleman who posted on 1/23 at 10:41 p.m. - I pity you and am embarassed for you for your lack of empathy for all the people involved in this tragedy. Maybe if you had some sort of life you'd be doing something more worthwhile with it than being alone on the computer late at night taking pot shots and being cowardly enough to not even sign your name!! Shame on you.
Posted by Boni Holt on February 1, 2007 10:52 AMThank you Kevin and the talented staff of the RMN for writing this story. I live in Colorado Springs but just happened upon a piece by John Temple that talked about the upcoming series and have been reading it on line. SHAME ON THOSE OF YOU who think this piece was written just to try to win an award. It certainly IS well done and I would be thrilled to see it recognized with awards but there is far too much heart in this story for that to have been Kevin's only motive. And to those of you who try to use this comment section as a place to advance your own agendas, I say there is a time and a place for everything and this is a time and a place for this story and the matters that pertain to it, not your personal agendas. To use it in ANY OTHER WAY is to disrespect the families and friends who so willingly participated in these pieces and the memory of the children who lost their lives that day and the man who has had to live with his role in the accident for the majority of his life. The only people who knew what happened that day were on that bus and on that train and as much as we would wish that tragedies such as this never happen, they have and they do and for us to second guess human actions is futile.
I rode a school bus for twelve years and can well remember the railroad tracks we crossed daily. I had never, until reading this article, thought just how much responsibility just crossing those tracks put on our driver. My kids have ridden school buses for years and those who drive the buses have my utmost respect. Statistically speaking, children are MUCH SAFER riding the bus than they are being transported in a private car to and from school when one factors in all the variables of what COULD happen in that trip. I am aware that there have been calls over the years for seat belts on school buses but it seems to me that the outcome in this accident might not have been that much different even if they'd been in use then; a school bus is physically no match for a train.
I thank the families, friends, and the community of the people whose lives were changed for ever that cold December morning for sharing their rememberances with us. As a human and a parent, I share their grief about the loss of so many young lives happening so quickly. And I respect the wishes of those who chose not to be public about the matter and believe that Kevin Vaughn in his respectful treatment of this matter has honored their privacy.
I, too, am anxious to read more of this story and applaud this fine work that has been done. I look forward to more good things from this writer and his co-workers.
With respect, I thank all who have participated in this and sorrow for your losses, even though they were nearly half a century ago. There is no timeline on grief. I was born in July of 1961 and have several older siblings and cannot imagine losing family members like this. And for those who chose to remain private with their grief, my thoughts and respect go out to you as well.
I read with interest that alot of folks blame the Union Pacific, a railroad CANNOT be blamed entirely for a collision at a crossing. THE RAILROAD OWNS THE TRACK and it is THEIR property that cars pass over at a crossing, I had very close neibours that lost their daughter in that accident, I never heard them blame the U.P. or anyone for what happand. Unfortunatly, they blamed themselves, as the girl was not feeling well and wanted to stay home. at any rate, with the need to be on time somtimes people take short cuts, do it fast but try to be careful, is the byword of alot of businesses including the school district that mr harms worked for. personaly speaking i find it hard to miss a bright yellow engine with like cars on it, with a bright headlight and a blowing horn, do i blame anyone, no, it happand, its over and people have moved on. my cudos to the Rocky mtn news and the Greeley Tribune, for doing this story in the first place, I know of people that didint even know this happand and its nice to revisit history every now and then, regardless of the pain it digs up.
Posted by Kyle Redman on February 1, 2007 04:57 AMI am Alice Larson's oldest daughter and I have been reading the series as avidly as everyone else. I grew up with knowledge of the accident and had some details, but mostly from my mom, who did not remember the accident. She could only tell my sisters and I what she had been told, which was sketchy. Hearing stories as a child is one thing, but to read the personal accounts now, as an adult with children of my own, is quite different. I am now able to better understand the sorrow that my grandparents, aunts and mom went through. I cry when I read the stories and think of the pain they endured then and still occasionally do now, I'm sure. I am eternally grateful to Jim Brantner for being able to put aside his grief for his children in order to help save my mom's life that day. I think nowadays we need more caring, honest people like all the families in this series. Our world would be a much different place if everyone would behave with the decency and love for one another as the residents of Greeley did that winter. Greeley experienced the tragedy, not just individual families, and this is an important part of our history. To those of you who don't see the relevance or who think it's a waste of ink, I say don't read it. Greeley may be bigger in size now, but family histories and our sense of community run deep here. I think it is time for the whole story to be told so the children and grandchildren of those involved can better understand what happened and have some questions answered.
Posted by Kynda Wolfrum on January 31, 2007 10:33 PMThe book titled "Children of the Storm: The True Story of the Pleasant Hill School Bus Tragedy" by Ariana Harner & Clark Secrest was published by Fulcrum Pub. in Golden , CO. in March 2001. It is still available for purchase for $12.95. The ISBN# 1555912753
Posted by on January 31, 2007 09:48 PMAs your series has unfolded, I've no doubt been both intriqued and sadden by the results of Dec. 14, 1961. I remember like yesterday, coming home from school and the look on my mother's face. She had an extremely difficult time telling us what had happened that morning. We had just seen my great aunt, uncle and our cousins the previous summer in Arvada, roller skated in our basement and had a good time together. They were an extremely strong family and it became more apparent after the accident. My older brother and I got the opportunity to spend summers on the farm w/ the Larsons. Some of my favorite memories growing up are of those times. As we've aged we've not seen enough of one another. I'm blessed to be related to Juanita, Art, Nancy, Linda and Alice as well as Steve. Losing a child would be the hardest thing one could imagine. Your article has been well done and the story needed to be told. I have had questions answered and can now feel that I have a grasp somewhat of that day. Thank you. George
Posted by George on January 31, 2007 05:40 PMNancy Larsen....I talked to Jim last night and he said to tell you "hi" and that he sends all his love to your Mom and Dad. He misses being home in Colo.and all the old friends and neighbors. He said to tell all the old neighbors he wishes he could be here to . He's doing better but can't travel anymore. He thinks of all of you fondly . And remembers all the good times out there.
Posted by Mary Brantner on January 31, 2007 05:38 PMJuanita Larson is an inspiration. All of you are.
To the courageous families, I would like to say THANK YOU for sharing. It must be incredibly difficult .
I was 7 at the time and living on the Western Slope. Our colorful history has always fascinated me, yet I had not ever read any account of this terrible event, and my mother has no recollection of it.
I am glad to have this piece with your personal accounts. What a shame it would have been to let this go until no one close to the accident was left and your stories were left to speculation.
I wonder how many people would know about the Towner bus tragedy of 1931 if a book had not been written, Children of the Storm: The True Story of the Pleasant Hill School Bus Tragedy, by Ariana Harner and Clark Secrest. I read this book some years ago and was left wondering what happened to the families, how did they manage to cope, where are they now? Are there any survivors, friends, witnesses left who wish they could talk to one another?
I believe your part in this is of dire importance, and your descendents will be extremely glad to have it. Really.
Bless you.
Posted by Colonative Carolyn on January 31, 2007 05:17 PMI'm so impressed with "The Crossing"! I don't take any newspaper, but when I learned about this compelling story, I just had to read it. I buy one everyday, even when it's a chore to go get and I've not been disappointed. I've enjoyed reading & viewing the website also.
I was unaware of this tragic accident but I agree with most that it was just that....an accident.
Looking forward to the rest of the series.
Sue
Posted by Sue Gauden on January 31, 2007 05:07 PMAs I said the other night my dad and I was on the other crossing to the east and I had rolled down the window to scrape the mirrior. The sun was bright at that moment and it was hanging low in the ski. It was hard to see the train because the light looked like part of the sun. The train did not whistle at that crossing even though a big truck was approaching the track. We stopped because we could hear the clickety,clack of the train wheels on the track. We stopped and looked to see if the bus had stopped. I will stake my life that it came to a complete stop. Have you ever been on a bus with small childern? They laugh, talk loud and sometimes cry.
We need to remember so we can try not to have it repeated.
I am a Denver native and was living in Englewood at the time of the accident. I was a housewife with four small children. I have to admit that I do not remember this accident at all.
I appreciate the Rocky Mountain News doing the story. I also appreciate that it is covering the series so well. I've read every installment and watched the videos with great interest.
It is sad that this had to happen. Sad for everyone including the bus driver. When a tragedy strikes like this, so many people are affected. As the story continues, I hope more is mentioned about the lives of the survivors and families touched by the accident.
Dottie
Posted by Dottie on January 31, 2007 02:54 PMDear Quit
I've lived in Colorado for 43 years but never heard about this story 'til now. So forgive me for pondering the facts, it's new to me.
Those of you who HAVE lived with this tragedy for 45 years (and God bless all of you) have long ago resolved in your own minds what happened Dec 14, 1961 and why.
You posted a long list of variables, any one of which would have prevented this accident if altered slightly. That is one of the things which interests me; how the unfortunate chain of events came together. I'm not "blaming" anyone, I'm simply pondering a few questions that came to my mind.
I share Mr. Gift's curiosity about the timing of the trains horn. Both of us wrote that had we been in the engineer's seat we would have blown it until the collision. Maybe the engineers did, I haven't seen their testimony nor the conclusions of the officials who questioned them.
At any rate, I agree with you that the story here is the faith and character of the people involved, and how admirably they've dealt with tragedy. I have tremendous admiration and respect for all of them.
BTW, I am NOT the litigious type. Far far far from it. Please spare me any further morally superior lectures.
Posted by Flynn on January 31, 2007 02:35 PMYou are doing an awsome story. I truly see this as a real life love story of a community. My brother died of Cancer over 50 years ago and he was just 17. My mother told me something that I have never forgotten and I would like to pass it on. If you talk of him and keep him in your heart, he will never truly be gone. These children are again remember by this generation and we send our love to them and their families. We are anxiously awaiting the next chapter. You have cought us up in something that most of us did not know. Accidents are called "ACCIDENTS" because most of the time it could have been prevented. We need to all be aware to teach our children to keep their eyes and ears open all the time while in a vehicle. Seconds can mean the differance between life and death, as this story reminds us.
Posted by on January 31, 2007 01:52 PMThank you for this series. I lived in Weld County at the time of the accident, and I don't think there were many people there, at that time, who didn't know at least one of the families involved. To me this series is about what happened, and how the families coped and how they are living today, as well as talking about the childen and making them "real" and not just statistics.
All these years later, I don't think it really matters whose fault it was, if indeed it was anyone's. There are many things, that if they had been different, the event might not have happened. The crossing could have been better designed so that oncoming trains could be seen better, for instance. To me, trying to place blame all thes years later, is not the purpose of this series.
Thanks again
. I was in 7th grade in East Denver at the time and remember this tragic event. This was the second disaster to occur in the area in 1961, the other being the United Airlines DC-8 crash at Stapleton in July, with a similiar loss of life.Another story at the time was the on going scandal in the Denver Police Department.
This is a great series,it illustrates how fragile and brief life can be. These children and their story deserve to be remembered.
. I was in 7th grade in East Denver at the time and remember this tragic event. This was the second disaster to occur in the area in 1961, the other being the United Airlines DC-8 crash at Stapleton in July, with a similiar loss of life.Another story at the time was the on going scandal in the Denver Police Department.
This is a great series,it illustrates how fragile and brief life can be. These children and their story deserve to be remembered.
This whole story has been horrifing. But everyday I look forward to reading the next chapter. It is interesting to learn about people and how they lived and or have survived. After I read the chapter I read the discussion. I am impressed by the forgiving nature of the people and families of Greeley and surrounding areas.
I see that there are some former school bus drivers and I am sure many current ones who have cried as I have. As a former school bus driver (in Central California) I had to deal with driving in the fog (so thick, you could see less than 100 feet). Stopping at railroad crossings, with a load of children, in the fog was the scariest. When the heaters, defrosters, radio, bus engine and the students are talking, you can't hear sirens so I could imagine not hearing a train's whistle. The laws for bus driving have changed alot over the years and we can always wonder what if? But this driver did not set out to intentionally harm these students. And he walked away with his life, can you imagine how that has affected the rest of his life?
Mr. Gift:
Isn't any accident "entirely preventable carelessness?" If I slip on the ice and break a hip...maybe I should have taken a different route where there wasn't ice; I certainly didn't walk on the ice to break my hip - it was an accident. You want to place blame with the bus driver? I suggest you read the posts I referred to you. One second difference....who is to blame....the blame, if there is any, can be placed in many different areas that caused the circumstances of that day. Maybe the train shouldn't have delayed taking on all the Christmas mail that day....maybe people should have mailed their Christmas items earlier or later so the train wouldn't have been delayed...maybe the bus driver should or should not have waited for children that were late...maybe there should have been a crossing arm and lights that someone neglected to realize should have been there...if the train engineer was so late, maybe he should have been going 79 1/2 mph...just stop and think of all the things that attributed to the timing of the bus being one second too late getting across the tracks, or needing to have been delayed 15 seconds so the train would have obviously been at the crossing before it got there. The same types of questions can be asked of the train. It's very easy to judge in hindsight. Too bad you weren't the bus driver then...as you would have gotten out. With the time to turn off the engine, which was part of the regulations then, and get off and then return and start the engine, you probably would have needed to see the train a mile away. I lived near the accident and it would be extremely difficult to have done what you suggest and see the train and then cross ahead of it. Again, please stop trying to place blame. Do paramedic drivers with passengers stop at uncontrolled railroad crossings and get out? I don't think so...even on bad weather days. How about the emergency vehicles that are involved in wrecks...accidents or "preventable carelessness?" Obviously, many times in those accidents, other drivers didn't hear the sirens...or the emergency vehicle didn't pause long enough to assure a safe passage. Anyway, it does no good to try and find fault as it was investigated at the time. As the saying goes....if "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, it would be Christmas everyday.
Dear Quit,
You make good points. This is a tribute to those kind, strong, wonderful people.
Years ago I drove a school bus. I know the distractions/disruptions.
But as a paramedic driver instructor, this was not an accident.
It was entirely preventable carelessness. (An accident is something unforeseeable which may occur too quickly in which to correctly react.)
I would have gotten out and looked. I can't understand why the driver did not. Also, how did he not hear a locomotive horn? Even with children yelling, with the door open he should have heard the horn. (If noisy, I would have told the children we are not crossing until they are quiet.) Did the engineer blow too early? I just cannot understand how this horrible collision was allowed to happen. This strengthens my resolve to expend the extra effort and take time to be careful.
Rocky Mtn News. You have captured the hearts on this one! How could anyone not take this story as a love story. My heart goes out to all those who were effected by this tragidty, then and now. My Brother died of Cancer almost 60 yrs ago. He was 17. My mother said something to me that I think is approprate to these families. "As long as you talk about him and carry him in your heart, he is never truly gone." These children will live on. Thank you for a story that has captured Colorado. You have done an awsome job. It would be great for more inspirational stories. Keep up the great work. Connie
Posted by on January 31, 2007 09:53 AMTo quit pointing guilt it was an accident. AMEN!!!!!!!! I could not have expressed it better. Thank you.
Posted by juli on January 31, 2007 09:29 AMThe Crossing has truely caputured my attention. A wonderful tribute to those who persihed, their families and all who were affected by this tragedy. An unthinkable accident long ago and the impact one brief moment had on so many. As I read the words about these ordinary people that were thrown into a terrific event it takes me back to a time when people seemed to possess strength, courage, character, love of God, family and neighbors in which sadly to say that so many of us are missing today.
This is a wonderful awarding winning piece and cudos to the team that has brought this story to our attention and to the famalies who have endured their losses.
Posted by Linda on January 31, 2007 09:14 AMWONDERFULLY written account of a terrible tragedy. I hope you win an award for such tremendous writing.
Posted by Jane Baker on January 31, 2007 07:39 AMI agree with 1/30 9:38 posting. The families that lived through this tragedy as well as people like them all over rural America at that time were the salt of the earth that understood life's hearthaches and the importance of family and God.
Take a look around at America today, it is filled with self-rightous, jaded, hateful people that only care about themselves and their opinions. It's no wonder we are a country sliding down the path of self-destruction. One saving grace is that there are still people out there like the Brantner's, Ford's, and Larson's, they can be found where they were in 1961, in rural America! They still grow our food and raise our livestock. They still believe in God and family. They still know the value of life.
For those that think this story is about a traffic accident, open your eyes! It is about how people survive the worst possible event imaginable, losing a child, or in the case of many of these families, more than one child. It is about how people heal in their own way and move on but never forgetting. It is about making people think how short life is and how a chain of events can change life forever. It is a glimpse into 20 souls who never got to experience what many of us take for granted.
If more stories like this are written maybe there is hope.
Posted by Marc on January 31, 2007 07:19 AMIn 1961 I was 11 years old and in class with Bob Branter who rode with his older brothers that fatefull day. Through the years when I think of the accident, which I have fairly often, he is the one that comes to mind. He was so young to suffer such loss - I hope he has had a good life.
I think this story is wonderful and a tribute to all of those lost that should never be forgotten and also to those that survived and have found a way to go on.
Thank you so much for this story to remember all of them.
Robert Gift and Flynn:
Stop the fingerpointing and conjecture and refer to the post by "jm" on1/26/07 at 4:08p and 4:42p. This story is not about who is at fault...you don't understand the gist of this story. Ultimately, read the "posts" about the strengths of the families and their belief in God's Will. I get the feelings that you are both of the character that would be litigous and trying to sue and collect for damages. You have to understand that people that live the agrarian (agricultural) lifestyle understand life and death so much more than the urban society. Most of us in the agricultural world are strongly devout and evidence of our beliefs in God....we may question the circumstances and reason, but we entrust our faith, lives, and circumstances to Him. Raisng livestock and pets that live and die everyday, with or without reason, are part of our lives; it's our appreciation of the lives and deaths of humans. In today's society there would have been volumes of litigation with multi-millions of dollars demanded for this tragedy - which is my speculation - but the families you read about hear are beyond that....they have a stronger religion and faith in God and Their Savior. You can't fault them, nor condemn them for their actions...I see that they are so much stronger than the society of today...they didn't sue others, they question the actions but generally don't find fault...they accept their destiny as part of God's Will...and they have gained so much strength from it. They question, doubt, but realize that there is destiny in God's Master Plan. It isn't for you or I to question their Faith. I know I believe with them in God's love. Please...step back and realize that the questions you have asked were asked many-fold at the time of the investigations...and for reasons I hope that will be disclosed with this story, you will have your answers. I suggest that you understand that driving a bus with 36 children, a heater and defroster blaring, are overwhelming enough to din the blast of a train horn...if not, you need to ride a school bus as I had to do; unfortunately the technology of today would diminish the noises and distractions of the bus at that time. There is testimonial stories from survivors that they didn't hear it either. Your input is appreciated, but realize that this isn't a story of fault, but one of tragedy, life changes, history, and healing.
In 1961, I was a 10 year old 4th grader in Leadville. My dad read the stroy of this accident in the Rocky Mountain News. My mother commented that she was so glad my brothers and I did not have to ride a school bus.
In 1974, having just graduated from UNC, I began my first job at the Greeley Tribune, then a locally owned paper, very focused on meeting the needs of the people who lived in the communities in northern Colorado. Most of the employees at the Tribune had worked there for years, having worked together closely in good and bad times and often spoke of stories that had made a personal impact.
Even after the passage of (then) 13 years, this accident and its impact were still often a topic of discussion. It was a if no one at the Tribune could forget the pain in the details. They talked with reverence of the memory of the children who died, respect for the survivors and the families. It was as if the memories provided a compassionate guide for them as they dealt with stories they were covering even then. I don't know if the families involved in this tragedy were aware of the long lasting and far reaching impact it had.
My father, Claude Hutchinson, and Joe Brantner were childhood friends and remained very close friends throughout their lives. My father married Bethel and Joe married Katherine a few years after, each beginning their famiies.
I fondly remember our many visits to the Brantner farm as a child when we would drive up from Denver. I was two years older than Kathy and she and I were playmates..
When the very tragic school bus accident happened it certainly shook my family also.The loss of Kathy and Mark was devastating. My mother took me with her to Joe and Katherines for a few days to help out in any way we could. Paul who was just a toddler kept calling me Kathy, which was heartbreaking to me. He was too young to comprehend what was happening.
When Johnny and Jimmy were in the car accident less than two months later, we came again to help out. The loss of Johnny was another big shock and Jimmy's condition was critical. If I remember correctly, Jimmy was in a coma for around 20 days.
Following this story has brought tears to my eyes several times and brought back so many memories of that time when I was 11. It tore my family up knowing what the Brantner family was having to endure.
The wonderful words that I have read here about Joe Brantner are so true. He was a very good and decent man, as was my father. That is one reason their friendship was so solid. Joe and Katherines' faith has always been strong and helped to lead them through these very difficult times. Katherine is also a quite a remarkable woman.
Mary, it pleases me to be able to read all that you have contributed to this. I talked with your Mom last weekend and I know reliving this is not easy on her.
When I was in Greeley after Joe had passed on, Katherine took me to the cemetary where Joe and her three children are buried and we prayed together
Nancy....I'll forward the message to Jim's wife Cindy . My loveable big brother with the heart of gold is very ill. He has had open heart surgery and keeps having strokes . They now live in Oklahoma. He has been in so many serious accidents where he's had serious head injuries that it's just taken it's toll . He's still the lovable , sweet , happy person though. It will make him happy that people still remember him . He's like daddy, would give everything to someone who needs it . The first one there to help and the last one to leave.
Posted by Mary Brantner on January 30, 2007 04:04 PMI read the articile about my parents and it is so moving. I lived with them and know that life has not been the same sence all the children were gone.
Mary tell your mom hi and give her my love. I have worked on my faith in God to be as strong as theirs have been throughout their lives. Not many people remember that you lost one more child two months later in a car accident and Jimmy hurt so bad. Tell Jimmy I miss him.
Alice has four beautiful daughters with many grandchildern. She is the best mother and grandmother I believe that with her brush with death so early in life she knows how quick you can loose a loved one. I don't know if you have asked her about her writtings she has to most moving poems and stories. Her childern and grandchildern receive a poem or story every year.
To Amy,
Your idea of congregating at the sight of the accident after this story is finished in the paper is a wonderful one.
Pick a date & time and post it here. Those of us that want to participate will be there.
I think it is the very least we could all do out of respect for those families involved. I think it would be a wonderful jesture and peace of mind to these families to see that we all feel for them and their grief even 45 years later. We have not forgotten them or their lost loved ones.
Deb Thompson
Posted by Deb Thompson on January 30, 2007 02:41 PMDaryl , Diana , Randy...I had lunch with mom today and told her of the comment page of the story . She remembers all of you kids very well.She hopes you find your answers to the questions that have been in your hearts . She has been in touch with many of the other parents . They are still a close group and are helping each other through this.It's harder for some though . The families of the kids are a truely amazing group of people . We have always had great friendship , caring and love from the community out there . Felicia , I went to school with your aunt Becky from kindergarten on through high school. I remember Randy as in collage age . And Daryl , we had those picnics every July . Dad would pick sweet corn from our field , and we would have all the neighbors , and family come for them . I can still remember the horse shoe contests they would have .
Mom had good memeries today of you kids. And that helps her to . She remembers alot from those days . She sends her love to your families and hopes to see you soon.
Considering the injuries Alice Larson suffered 45 years ago, she looks great!
Diana, does Alice have a family of her own? I have been living in California for a long time, so I have lost touch with the community except for family members.
I would like to make some snippet comments of my own, furthering Lil Purvis' statement regarding the people of the Auburn community. Your observation and conclusion about the people of Auburn is correct. Those people lived their faith - their religion. At least, the ones I knew. Regardless of any one's personal faults, they were/are church-going people. And; regardless of their various religious beliefs, they all have one common doctrine - Christ, the Messiah. They all try to love their neighbor as themselves. If everyone in the world practiced this very one doctrine, this entire world could live in peace. If the sinister people who made ridiculing statements days before here-within, could understand, learn and put-to-practice this one virtue, there would be no need for the news-papers to report about ANY insidious and intentional tragedies in Iraq or anywhere else in the world.
As a side snippet... I really feel compelled to voice my opinion about Joe Brantner. I think Joe Brantner's action to leave his dead children lay and consider the lives of others that moment in time during the tragedy, was pure heroism. I'm quite sure that God Almighty took notice of it. What lays within a person's heart is always shown during times of pressure - whether good or bad. Henceforth, we all now have clearly witnessed the heart of Joe Brantner. And; please don't misunderstand me, the Brantner children were/are just as precious and valuable as like all of the other children were/are. Joe Brantner understood and knew that.
My mother's parents; Jake and Dorothy Altergott (of Windsor) who are no longer with us, use to tell me stories. My grandfather Jake told me that during the depression, just about every time the train would stop on the railroad down the road from where they lived, a handful of men would jump off looking for work. They could not put all the men to work on their farm because there were just too many men, but they told the men who came knocking - looking for work - that the wood-pile needed to be moved. Grandfather told me that moving the wood-pile gave each of those men some self-dignity. After they moved the wood-pile, my family would serve them a hot meal. That wood-pile sure made it's way around the yard. But, that didn't matter as long as my family felt like they could help everyone they could who came knocking - who was in need.
My grandfather Ruben (Alles) told me that the German prisoners of war (WW2) were brought to the farm everyday to work. They worked all day for food. My family treated them well and fed them hot meals everyday. Grandpa Ruben said that these men were grateful. And; after the war, most of the German prisoners didn't want to leave.
The people of Auburn didn't start learning how to love their neighbor after the tragedy in December 1961, but because of their character, belief and faith pre-existed BEFORE the tragedy, they were able to survive it and move on to experience more blessings and joyful times afterward. They had/have the fortitude to count their blessings regardless of their loss. And, I am not attempting to write that they didn't experience a great deal of loss and grief after the tragedy because many didn't readily express their grief to others. They did grieve. But, one does not grieve in the absence of love. That is an oxymoron. They grieved greatly BECAUSE they loved. However; the love for others never ended, so this was their empowerment to move forward.
If anyone of you readers have not read the book titled; THE POWER OF POSITIVE THINKING, I highly recommend it. The author is: Norman Vincent Peale.
Best wishes to all.
Posted by Felicia (Alles) Trecek on January 30, 2007 01:25 PMI am from Houston, Texas... we have two sons attending college at Colorado State University so we like reading the news in norhern Colorado. I came acoss The Crossing- an important historical story. It is indeed Pulitzer prize worthy with it's poetic and haunting verse.
The videos are heartwrenching at times but they also are uplifting. The people of Auburn were the soul of America- these were families united in tragedy but who survived due to their love of community, their oneness with the land and their profound love of family. The lost children, the survivors and their families are the spirits of the West. I do agree that a celebration of life and a permanent memorial marker needs to be placed in memory of the children. I hope to hear one day that this memorial event has happened and I look forward to reading each chapter of this excellent documentary. Lil Purvis
I was beginning my senior year in Sterling,Colorado when this happened. It was very close to us as we shared lifestyles, school contacts, heck, we used to go to Greeley to run around and have fun & the Greeley kids would come to Sterling to do the same. Of course we had our inter-school rivalries but still we had many firiends in the area. I met Duane Harms and many others later on, I was in the rodeo scene for a while as were many others from the area. I am amazed that so many have managed to go on with their lives and not let the trauma of that day destrory their lives as it would have many others. They are a strong bunch of people and suffered more that one day than many of us will see or have seen in a lifetime. Kudoes to RMN for delivering this series!
Posted by Larry on January 30, 2007 10:56 AMOn December 14th, 1961, I was the morning announcer on KFKA in Greeley. We were the first of the media to learn of the accident about 20 minutes after it occurred. I immediately alerted others at the station and our staff dispersed to various locations to report. Mobile equipment did not exist in those days, so reports came by telephones.
I also informed Associated Press and United Press International and became a feed for those news sources throughout the day.
For the next 17 hours, I helped report updates and was the voice on 40 or more stations and for many newspapers from coast to coast. Other members of our staff responded to as many other media.
I had actually forgotten about the accident until the series in the News. The first day, I cried for two hours as the events came sharply back to my mind.
This series also reconnected me with a radio colleague that I have not seen in 40 years. His son was born that day and he was torn between the need to be with his wife and baby and the need to cover the accident. As Farm Director for the station, he knew many of these families.
I anxiously look forward to reading about the participants in this tragedy and how it has shaped their lives.
Larry Sears
6264 S. Grant Street
Centennial, CO 80121
(720) 524-0440
This article had me hooked from the beginning. When I started reading the Crossing, memories came back to me. I was only 4 at the time but I remember my Mom and Dad talking about the accident. We lived in Windsor. I don't remember any details, but I remember the sadness expressed by Mom and Dad. I think this story is a reminder of how precious each life is, and how we should love people now!
Posted by David on January 30, 2007 10:13 AMIt was so good to read the interview with the Larsons today. I emailed Alice to say that one of my fondest memories of them was of a trip they took my sister and me on with their girls. I don't know how they put up with us, feet hanging out the back of the station wagon, waving at strangers,etc. All those teenage girls in a car!!
The description of Linda bringing the cows home made me smile. That is exactly how I would have pictured her, plus her confidence in Steve's ability to bring the car home.
And your description of the Larsons--Juanita and Art-- is accurate. I never saw anything but complete joy in their children. How lucky the girls were.
Mr. and Mrs. Larson, Nancy, Linda, Alice--I'm so sorry that this is the first time I've been able to learn much about Steve. We knew you lost him, but we, too, were afraid to bring up sadness by talking about it. He should be remembered. Thank you so much for sharing the memories. I'm sorry I never met him.
I know that ideas about healing were different in those days. We all do the best we can with our families, and I am honored to have lived next to your family and to know you.
Posted by Diana on January 30, 2007 08:01 AMThe stories and photos are Pulitzer-worthy. They're not about trains or school buses, or who's to blame. They're about living life by the minute. And being able to laugh out loud, as you look back ... as Jaunita Larson does today. If you want to know what life's about, ask her.
Posted by Dick Dedrick on January 30, 2007 07:59 AMI have to say that this is an intense series. I got hooked as soon as I read the first chapter. I drove a school bus for several years and the thought of this story makes my hair stand on end. I was only 9 at the time of the accident, not living in the immediate area, but I remember my mom talking about it. I think she spoke of it because her own children rode a school bus.
I want to thank all who have given of themselves to work on this series. My heart goes out to each and every one of you.
Amy, it would be an honor to be able to go to the location and give my respects to all involved.
May God Bless each of you.
I have to say that this is an intense series. I got hooked as soon as I read the first chapter. I drove a school bus for several years and the thought of this story makes my hair stand on end. I was only 9 at the time of the accident, not living in the immediate area, but I remember my mom talking about it. I think she spoke of it because her own children rode a school bus.
I want to thank all who have given of themselves to work on this series. My heart goes out to each and every one of you.
Amy, it would be an honor to be able to go to the location and give my respects to all involved.
May God Bless each of you.
I have to say that this is an intense series. I got hooked as soon as I read the first chapter. I drove a school bus for several years and the thought of this story makes my hair stand on end. I was only 9 at the time of the accident, not living in the immediate area, but I remember my mom talking about it. I think she spoke of it because her own children rode a school bus.
I want to thank all who have given of themselves to work on this series. My heart goes out to each and every one of you.
Amy, it would be an honor to be able to go to the location and give my respects to all involved.
May God Bless each of you.
Dear Flynn,
I hope the engineer did more than just two "toots". (Perhaps that was his understated description of what he did.) [I would have blasted all the way to impact.]
I presume (hope) that the enginner blew the proper --.- (long, long, short, long) blasts required upon approach to grade crossings.
Usually they even exaggerate the blasts when approaching non signalled grade crossings when vehicles or pedestrians are present.
They know how long it takes to traverse from one point to another.
They also know every grade crossing.
So I doubt their attention was diverted elsewhere but to the crossing.
But I wonder how the bus driver missed hearing the train horn.
Did the engineer blow too early?
That would be unforgivable, especially when you see a bus.
I was in my fathers truck on the crossing just down the track. If I had not rolled down the window of the truck my father Art Larson and I would have been hit by the train. My whole life has been spent with that grief. My sister and I were not to talk about the wreck or our brother. Mom said it would harm Alice in her healing. So it never was said, thank you for writing the story. It will be healing for all of us who have been left behind. For better or worse the event of Dec 14 1961 formed who I am today.
Posted by Nancy Larson-Slater-Walker on January 29, 2007 09:32 PMDGS: I don't remember how long after the accident that the bus was moved, but my dad took me to a fenced in lot where the bus pieces were taken that I assumed was CSHP (State Patrol), or a fenced lot of a truck dealership..........my recollection is fuzzy about that. The lot was fenced because you could not get close to the bus and I remember the hanging pieces of metal jutting out toward the back where the train plowed through.
Then my memories shift to the funeral at St. Paul's Congregational Church and how sad the whole holiday season was that year with all the loss and heartache.
This series certainly has captivated me like many others - It has given me a better understanding of all the little pieces that could have or did fall into place to result in this tragedy. I think the series is well done, as well as the brief videos.
Posted by Randy on January 29, 2007 09:25 PMTo Mary and all the other family survivors and friends. I can only imagine how horrible it is to relive these memories - I can only hope that through your sharing, other lives will be saved and maybe, just maybe, people will realize that "tomorrow is promised to no one" and that we must love eachother while we have the chance. While in Old Town Arvada this weekend, the train went by and I got chills like never before. I never knew about this accident, but I know that I will never forget it, or forget the brave people who shared their stories and the reverant way it was shared by such great writers. I hope that all these videos and stories are store on DVD so that after this story is told, it can be shared with future generations. Thank you again, and I am so sorry for your loss.
Posted by Heidi on January 29, 2007 08:54 PMMy mothers cousin was Bobby Smock, my mother is Wanda Myers, her aunt was Dorothy, Bobby's mom. This series has drawn me in, my mother has talked about it my whole life but to read it in a moment to moment setting has just amazed me. I wonder if people with remember and greive after 45 years after Columbine. I hope as this series goes on I will see something from my mothers family and their perspective as after my great grandmothers death our family fell apart. I want to thank the writer of this series as you have brought alot to life for me and my mother who was only 10 at the time of the accident. Thank you.
Cathi Clark in Wray Colorado, for the family I was Cathi Henry.
I did take Mary Brantner's advice on emailing Kevin. In my mind, this series has touched me so much that I just felt that I wanted to go there when the series ended to have a moment of silence and reflect. I know citizens of Colorado stood together that day and we will still stand for our own 45 years later. My email address is Amysuesq@aol.com if anyone would like to join in the plan.
Posted by Amy on January 29, 2007 08:16 PMRandy, I had three cousins on that bus, I was 9 at the time. You said you saw that bus at the CSHP but yet I remmeber behind my school was a bus with books and shoes in the back of it.I know it wasn't the bus because of the damage I have seen. I ran home to tell my Mom about it and then of coarse she set me down and told me what happened. It is driving me crazy, I just keep wondering where all that stuff came from and why it was behind our school. It was an elementary school on 5th st.This is just part of that day I can't clear up in my mind.
Posted by dgs on January 29, 2007 07:58 PMMy family and I moved into a house across the road from the Ford's and across the field from the Larson's. This was after the accident and after the track crossing was adjusted to a more reasonable angle.
At the time, I never really knew what made that farm available to us, and I was miffed to be torn from a perfectly suitable house on the Godfrey Bottom west of the Auburn area with a great pasture backing up to the Platte and all the childhood space I could want, to a strange, different house without trees or rivers.
But as luck would have it, the house across the field from our new house had a girl the same age as me. And sometimes that is all a kid needs to know. Of course I found out that Alice had been in an accident and was even slightly jealous of the terrific scar on her side and the fact that she had spent time in a hospital. I also knew that she lost her little brother, but somehow my 12 year old mind didn't really wrap itself around such a tragedy nor was it forced to. And so, instead, I spent some great summers doing what young girls do, talking on the phone for hours about nothing, spending the night at each other's houses, planning hayrides, shopping at the JC Penneys for matching dresses (what nerds we were), and sneaking off on double-dates.
The first images I recall seeing of the accident are the ones I'm seeing now. For me the years afterwards aren't colored in sepia tones and they don't come with a meloncholy sound-track, instead I remember Alice, singing Beatle tunes together, and basking in colorful summer days with family all around us.
I, in no way, want to diminish the deep hurt and pain that the loss of those young children created. But I do want to thank my second parents, Art and Juanita, for allowing us the pleasures of youth, and Alice for her dear, dear friendship. Poor and small though our houses may have been - and I'm not so sure they were - there was always room for me with my overnight bag at the Larsons.
My love to you,
Gayle
Amy, I agree and count me in. I was born in 1962 and as I mentioned earlier my parents lived in Brighton at the time but grew up and worked the fields in Gilcrest, Ft. Lupton, LaSalle etc. Both my parents remember this tragedy and are still touched by it. They now live in Texas and my dad & mom have been reading the Rocky Mtn. News on line everyday since and are too moved by this story and memory. I would like to take part in a memeorial service or further more......Yes, use all resources and info. to find out how we and or others can help to have a permanent memorial set in place to Remember all lost and all NEVER TO BE FORGOTTON! Rose pardo2003@msn.com Mary, Randy, Alles family and Ford Family, all families who have shared and who will continue to share this story, Thank You and God bless.
Posted by Rose on January 29, 2007 06:46 PMI have just learned about this whole devestating crash and i feel for all the families i cant inmagine all those kids dying at that age that would be like me dying right now. I went to the road where this happend today and saw the refth. I am willing to make a big deal out of this whole thing cause i feel more people need to know what happend on that day!
p.s it was no ones fault it was an acedent and we all make them!
Mckenzee Diekman ,13
I have lived in CO all my life, that the time of the accident I was almost 4. My parents told me about it later on in life and if I remember right my grandfather was at the site. When I started school we started at Delta then were moved to East Memorial School.
After reading the first few days I have now found the answers to some long time questions of mine. One was why was did the school have the name East Memorial now it makes since.
I used to deliver the Greeley Tribune out east of LaSalle and would cross the tracks on CR 43 I always had a strainge feeling in that area, now I know why.
My heart goes out to all the familys and friends, I know a few of the familys as did my dad, he was a horse shoer and traveled out in that area alot.
I also think a memorial at the site is a good idea, may the children NEVER be forgotten. If there is anything I can do to help with this let me know. farmsweetie1958@yahoo.com
Mary,
I remember your family well, Your Dad & Bobby would bale our hay most of the time, we had a couple of summer picnics at your parents place. Many memories,, I think I was at Greeley Central in 68-69, I think you were on the bus in the afternoon.
I remember Diana, Deeny, The Geisicks, Bindells, we lived in front of Larsons for years.
I was on the church bus that Loretta Ford talked about today, and in Chapter 5, remember Bruce, and Glenn.
God bless,
Daryl Neukirch
As a native I was only seven at the time . What an awsome story. It is captivating and insightful. What ever happened to engineer Sommers and his fireman? They had to almost be first on scene! I hope we get to see some more survivors. It really helps to be able to put a face with a name.
Posted by Richard on January 29, 2007 02:33 PMBetter yet Amy get Mr. Vaughan and the paper to help you out on this . The press can be a powerful tool . And these guys seem driven enough by this story to do something . Email him with your ideas. Can't hurt and maybe you can organize something nice for the families .
Posted by Mary Brantner on January 29, 2007 01:48 PMAmy your idea is a noble one. But the spot is still owned by the rail road . It's in their right of way area . You would need to check with them and make sure they did not mind . And you would probly also need to check with the county because where rail road right of way ends the county road begins. There was talk back on the 40 th. anniversery as to getting a marker put there . But I don't think they where given permission to . Maybe if enough of you joined in you could get one done.
Posted by Mary Brantner on January 29, 2007 01:42 PMI was only seven in 1961 and don't remeber this tragedy. I have been so moved and so appreciative of this piece. I want to thank the families for their willingness to share their stories. Its not often that we have the opportunity to look back on a local tragedy such as this and hear how those involved are doing now, and what they went through on that December day in 1961. I look forward to opening the paper every morning and reading the next chapter.
Posted by Kay Wall on January 29, 2007 12:48 PMI understand there is a wreath laid at the spot where it happened. When this series ends, perhaps those of us following the story, could meet out there to lay some flowers and have a moment of silence. This happened before I was born, but I would still like to pay my respects. The series ends in March so perhaps we can use that timeframe to go visit the site and reflect. If anyone is interested in this idea, lt me know.
Thank you!
Dear Mr. Gift
My point was that the engineers should have blown the horn more than the standard two toots when they realized the bus was starting over the tracks unaware of the train.
I mentioned a "map" because of the fact that the train was late, trying to make up for lost time, and the engineers might have been calculating time / distance from their position to Denver. The point being, there are many little things that could have distracted the engineers for a few seconds.
Felicia is right road 43....I have not been out there for a few years so I had forgotten the number . She still has family out there . For those of you that do make the trip out there , there is a wreath close to the spot. Every christmas someone puts one there in memory for the kids. Even though Dad retired in "78" , we still stayed close to all the people out there. Most have retired and some are passed from us . And there are a few who had kids or grand kids who wanted to try farming .
Posted by Mary Brantner on January 29, 2007 10:57 AMI lived mostly in the midwest in college and farm towns. Even though Greeley is the biggest town i have lived in for the last 30 years it seems the smallest. This is not a negative just that i am trying to understand a community that i will be a part of until i die. I don't expect to move from Greeley.
It is that Greeley and the area is so close knit that i find most interesting. I know people here whose families have lived on the same peice of land for over 100 years. I grew up in the suburbs and we moved every 2 years. My mom grew up in a town in Pennsylvania where her family has lived since 1789. Since i have never experienced this i find it compelling to say the least.
Thanks for the welcome.
Posted by earl on January 29, 2007 10:38 AMTo Earl who said the he moved to Greeley in "95" and finds it interesting and hard to understand. I'm curious where you lived before. I have heard people say this of the entire Denver area. That people in Denver are different. That's always puzzled me. I've lived here all my life and from this article and many others showing the life of Coloradoans if there's one thing I've learned is that we are a close knit community no matter how large we grow (and heaven knows we've grown). The fact that there are still so many in the area that survived this terrible accident, and so many more that remember where they were at the time tells me that natives to Colorado tend to remain natives and we continue to pull together through the hard times and the good. I welcome Earl and all those who are new to this beautiful state that we have called home for so long. I hope that you have as many happy colorful years here as I have. I also hope that all of you take to heart a little bit of what it means to live in Colorado from this touching series.
Posted by laura on January 29, 2007 10:20 AMI would like to correct Mary on the roads she mentioned to get to the site of the accident. Go east out of LaSalle on road 50 to Road 43, not Road 41 as she said. Turn left on 43.
Posted by on January 29, 2007 08:19 AMToday's video took my breath away. The strength shown by Mrs. Ford and her sons was amazing. My heart goes out to them. My heart goes out to all of them.
Posted by Amy on January 29, 2007 07:49 AMDear Flynn,
It is likely that the engineer DID blow the proper --.- grade crossing whistle blasts.
I have ridden in passenger train locomotives and they always watch when approaching crossings, especially ones without signals. They also watch at places where people illegally cross, and at bridges where there may be trespassers.
My earlier post questioned if the engineer blew too early, so that the last long blast concluded too far away before they arrived at the crossing. Even if so, I assume the two extra "toots" would have filled in that gap.
I don't know why they would be looking at maps. They go where the track takes them.
I'm told there was good visibility far down the straight track.
The bus driver (WE ALL) should expected a train at ANY TIME from EITHER direction.
As one of the surviving victims of this tragedy I must compliment Kevin on his outstanding writing, and thoughtful presentation of this story. When Kevin first contacted me last fall, I wasn't sure I wanted to open old wounds, but felt that it was a story worth telling.
Mary, my heart goes out to YOU. My first thoughts were of your Mother and Father, and the hardships they have endured. I know how hard this must be on your mom, and I know that she is thankful that you are there for her. That morning, your dad put me in his car, and I rode along as those seriously injured were rushed to the hospital. I will always remember that drive, and the courage of your dad that morning.
You never really had a chance to know Mark, Kathy and John. All you know of them lies in old photographs, and the memories of those around you.
Thank you, Mary, for standing strong and supporting this series.
Posted by Randy Geisick on January 28, 2007 09:28 PMI am following this series with great interest. Although I grew up in an adjoining state, it was a similar rural area. I feel empathy with all the victims of this tragedy, being in the same age group as the kids in that bus. I look at the pictures of those children and see myself and my own young schoolmates of years ago. The young faces, the "hairdos" and the clothing styles -- that was my life too, long ago.
I watch the "seconds from disaster" program on TV, which made me think about the chain of events which led to this tragic accident. Of course, Mr. Harms is ultimately responsible, but to heap all blame on him is unfair, I think.
First, why didn't the engineers blow the whistle more than "a few short toots", if they were watching the bus from when it was approaching the crossing until collision? They hoped the bus full of children would stop? I would have been blasting the horn continuously! IMO, the engineers weren't really looking down the tracks during those critical few seconds, and they came up with their version of the story as a "CYA".
Second, that too is understandable and all too human. How easy it would be for the engineers to NOT be watching the tracks ahead for just a few seconds, to be occupied with something else -- stirring cream into their coffee, looking at a map, etc. etc.
Third, Mr. Harms was not expecting a train at that time, since there never was before a train at that time, especially travelling at 79 MPH. He looked down the tracks habitually, but, not expecting to see anything, he didn't.
Fourth, since Harms thought all was well, he leisurely closed the door, put the bus in low gear, gently engaged the clutch and began the slow crawl across the tracks at part throttle, accelerating gently. I can imagine 15 seconds or so elapsing from when he looked down the tracks until collision. That gives a train travelling at 79 mph the chance to travel 1740 feet. That's nearly 600 yards. That's well over a quarter mile. Perhaps the train was obscured by telephone poles, being that far away.
Fifth, If the train's horn HAD been blasting, harms could have realized his mistake, floored it, and easily picked up the critical 63 inches.
Please don't blame humans for being only human.
May God bless all of you who've been affected by this tragedy.
Posted by Flynn on January 28, 2007 08:49 PMCORRECTION:
In my previous post, I typed the accident occurred December 1941. Sorry for the typo. I meant to type 1961. Sorry if I confused anyone.
Thank you for your reply, Tony! I'm anxiously awaiting the next piece of the series. I am subscribed to the paper on weekends but I read the online version everyday. I'd rather read this series online anyway so I may participate in the discussion.
I agree that 33 parts is the only way to get the magintude of the story across. When we think about how many lives were affected and still are to this day. I would read this story top to bottom even if it lasted a year. It is a well written series.
I wonder if this is the same piece of track that runs through Eastlake, Colorado? I know the old grain building in Eastlake used to load grain on trains to the Greeley area.
Posted by Amy on January 28, 2007 06:32 PMI have lived in Greeley since 1995. I find it one of the most interesting and hard to understand places i have ever lived in my 47 years. I first heard this story 9 or 10 years ago, probably on the anniversary of the accident in the Greeley Trib. But not until this series has it captured my attention. After reading the many comments I am sure it does create painful memories and for that i am sorry for the families. Does this story need to be told again? Maybe not but maybe it does in order to provide an understanding of how the everyday all of a sudden can explode into something that we can't understand whether its a personal tragedy or one that affects an entire community.
I drove out to the site this morning around 10am. A wreath hung on a fence post. I walked up to the tracks and looked east and then west and tried to imagine what had happened.
Posted by earl on January 28, 2007 05:59 PMThis post is to answer two previous questions posed by NIKKI on 01/28/07 @ 3:50 pm. The questions restated are: 1) WHERE IS AUBURN? 2) WHERE EXACTLY DID THE ACCIDENT OCCUR? WHAT IS THE EXACT LOCATION?
Firstly, where is Auburn?
Auburn is a community, not a town. Auburn is in the rural area of Greeley. The Auburn community received it's name from the Auburn sugar beat dump. There use to be sugar beet dumps along side the RR tracks in all the rural communities because that is where the farmers in the rural country use to take their sugar beets for shipment on the RR cars. The dumps had scales and elevators. And, each dump had a name. Why that particular dump in that area was named, Auburn, I don't know. But, that was the name of the sugar beet dump for the area where the bus accident occurred. I assume the names of the sugar beet dumps were identifying names for individual areas in the old days. At least, it was for this area where the bus/train wreck occurred. Because Auburn was the name of the sugar beet dump that was located east of road 45 and south of road 54, the name of the old local school that is located on the NE corner of roads 43 and 54 was also named Auburn. (My father and grandfather attended the old Auburn school. And, I lived the first 12 years of my life a 1/2 a mile from the old Auburn school.)
Secondly, where exactly did the accident occur?
The accident occurred on rural road 52 at the RR crossing before the intersection of rural road 43. (Road 52 runs east and west, and road 43 runs north and south.) A few years after the accident (exact time/year, I don't know), part of road 52 was moved. I assume it was relocated because of the sharp angle it had to the railroad crossing. (The RR crossing was too dangerous.) If you query the roads on MAPQUEST.COM, you can see that there is now a jog in road 52. Road 52 primarily runs east and west, but now bends south-west along side of the RR tracks until it intersects with road 43. The bend parallels the railroad tracks and doesn't cross the tracks at all now. Road 52 (east of 43) now intersects with road 43 further south. You can turn on road 43 heading north (from road 52) where you then cross the RR tracks. Road 43 runs north and south and does not have a sharp angle to the RR tracks as like the old road 52 did where the bus crossed on December 1941. Now - for example; if you want to continue driving from the east heading west on road 52, you have to make a right turn on road 43 heading north, cross the RR tracks and then turn west back onto road 52.
Nikki...take road 50 east out of LaSalle .go about 2 miles east and turn left on road 41. 50 t-bones into 41 so you can't miss it . Go north another 2 or three miles until you reach road 52 . The train tracks are right there next to the road. Go east and you will see a small bend in the road. That is where the crossing used to be . You will see three farm houses about 150 ft way . The one on the left is where the Bindel family lived . The biggest house on the right is the old Brantner farm . We sold it in "78" .
Posted by Mary Brantner on January 28, 2007 05:13 PMI'm a weekend subscriber with the Post as my primary paper. That means I get the News on Saturday and the Post on Friday, Sunday and Monday. When I read the Saturday installment, I was instantly hooked.
This is a story of tragedy and healing in a small community and how events from 45 years ago affect people today. We have just seen the beginning. It will be interesting to see how tose tentacles will unwind over the next 28 segments. I expect that readers will be rewarded with their patience.
It is remarkable to see notes here by Mary Bratner and relatives of the Alles family. We know that those who were personally affected may find it difficult to relive this horrible experience and are so grateful that you are willing to share it with us here.
Now we need to recognize the insight of John Temple. This is the kind of writing that separates reporting from journalism. This kind of work takes a major commitment of the editor and staff to this project - Kevin Vaugh worked full time on this project. If you are hooked on this one, I would encourage readers unfamiliar with the works to read projects of similar scope - the first being the Pulitzer Prize-winning "Final salute" and the follow up "Wake for an Indian warrior". Works like these must make for long lists of applications from internships and journalism graduates.
Thanks.
Posted by Tony on January 28, 2007 03:50 PMWho would write a story and not even mention the excat loaction. what is the county road. where is Auburn, CO? I live in LaSalle and I have no idea where the location is. Why did you show presant day pictures of the location?
Posted by NIKKI on January 28, 2007 03:24 PMThis story had to be told...because if it causes just one bus driver to think twice about opening his door, looking both ways, listening carefully and being attentive to oncoming trains then it was worth the ink. May all who think it was a waste of "news print" imagine your son or daughter, grandson or granddaughter, nephew or neice, stepson or stepdaughter, being on that bus! God bless all the families and thank you RMN for publishing a long overdo story.
Does anyone know where the accident happened, the exact loacation present day?
Posted by Nikki on January 28, 2007 03:05 PMDoes anybody know if we will be reading anything about the passengers in the train at the time of the accident? I can imagine the sorrow they fell also.
Posted by Terry on January 28, 2007 02:26 PMAmy,
The Rocky Mountain News publishes Monday through Saturday. Under a JOA, The Rocky Mountain News publishes on Saturday (the Denver Post does not) while on Sunday the Post publishes (and the Rocky Mountain News does not).
Posted by Tony on January 28, 2007 02:23 PMWhy wouldn't you release the sixth chapter on Sunday?
Posted by on January 28, 2007 02:06 PMIn response to Mr. Harms the last information we in Greeley knew is he was living in California and didn't wish to discuss the incident. This was in the mid-90s when the Greeley Tribune did an article on the accident.
Forty-five years after the accident it is so easy to point fingers and volly platitudes about who's at fault. Except for the survivors none of us were there nor experienced the accident first hand. As for Mr. Harms, a jury acquitted him of involuntary manslaughter. That action by a jury of Weld County residents put a period on the blame game for many. The community wanted to move forward, heal and continue with their lives in peace.
I agree with with many of the families who said it was providence.
In the aftermath Weld County and the residents of the Auburn did the best they could to move forward with a positive attitude. They moved the road, removed the crossing and made the area indistinquishable from the surrounding farms. If you didn't know for sure where it happened you couldn't find it today based upon just photos and such. In short they put a period at the end of a very tragic sentence and moved forward.
Thank you to Mary and others that were victim to this tragedy or knew someone in this tragedy for participating in the discussion even though it is painful. I value your comments as we move through the series. Having someone so close to this tragedy answer our questions makes it more understandable as we try to comprehend the magnitude of this tragedy. As another poster said, thank you for letting us into your lives as you share this painful episode.
Does anyone know what days the series will run on? I didn't see a chapter today yet I cannot find a timeline on which days a new part will run.
Do not blame the train's speed.
Entirely bus driver's fault.
If train is slower, people complain about waiting a RXR crossings.
Also, longer trip for passengers.
50 or 80 mph likely would have same deaths and injuries.
Easy NOT to be on tracks when a train coming.
Did Engineer Sommers finish blasting horn too far away from the crossing? That he added "two short toots" indicates he sounded horn too early - to far away.
Still, driver should have done what was necessary to SEE any trains;
open window, open door and get out and look, etc.
Leonard...I have sent you an email with info. Any one else who knows my other brothers and sisters and leave notes here. I will make sure they get the message. My niece and brother Paul also check or read this story every day too. Thank you to all who show concern over Mom . And thanks to all for the love, care and sympathy we have been sent.
Posted by Mary Brantner on January 28, 2007 08:55 AMIt takes a special talent to take such a tragic event as this accident and write the story as you have done here. Factual, hearteflt, respectfull, sympathetic are just a few of the words that decribe this story and how you are presenting it to those of us that knew nothing of this tragic days events before now. Thank you for your wonderful journalism talents Kevin!!! After reading through some of the comments on this story I can't help wonder why some people would still prefer to focus their attentions and energy on the "Who should we blame" attitude. This story though very tragic for all involved, and probably hard to relive through this story, is still an eye opener for all of us. I have two small Grandchildren one of which will be starting school in a couple of years and no doubt both of those Granchildren will ride a school bus at some point. Instead of still focusing today on the " Who Should We Blame" maybe the better thing to do is focus on teaching our children and Grandchildren alike about safety in all forms of transportation. That's what I will do. This story should be a reference point for all of us....Wake up, take notice, and pay attention, and always be safe and aware of our surroundings! May God Bless you and keep you all Safe!
Posted by Deb Thompson on January 28, 2007 08:26 AMMary Brantner,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts with everyone. I went to College High with your sister Susie. I was in the air force when the accident happened and came home to Greeley 2 weeks later on leave and remember how the whole town was saddened by that event. It was even colder then... 30 below zero, and somehow it seemed apporpriate.
I had been to you house once the previous sping but didn't get to meet your dad, after crying my way through chapter 5 I wish I had, I know I would have like him a lot!
Would you mind contacting me at minkel1@msn.com? I have not seen or talked to you sister since then and would like to get in touch.
'The Crossing' is an intriguing and heart wrenching story detailing events I had never known about. I am a CO native having grown up in the Hudson area in Weld County. I am in my late 30s now and started attending elementary school in 1974. No one ever mentioned this story to me. I went to UNC for three years and again I never heard about this incident.
I am fortunate to know about it now and can not wait for the next edition of the story to come out. It is as suspenseful as any thriller but all real and tragic.
This is not to minimize the loss of the families but to praise the superior writing style of this series. It brings it to life as though I am there on that bus.
I can not imagine how terrifying this must have been to have a train slam into your school bus at 79 mph.
No wonder my school bus drivers always opened the door and looked extra carefully down the tracks even with crossing gates present.
Posted by Cynthia on January 27, 2007 10:25 PMI have been reading some of the other entries and I have to say that we are talking about more than 37 people that were in the accident and their families in the series. So to me 33 parts is just going to cover some of the story. I think that the author had one thing in mind when he decided to write this story. To tell a caring community how an accident can effect so many people for their whole lives. I think that the way that they set it up to be a series and not just a long, one time story was a great idea.
Posted by Michelle on January 27, 2007 10:11 PMI am very thankful for this story. My mom and her family lived in the area and knew many of the kids on the bus. In a way I feel that I am getting a piece of their past that hurt too much for them to talk about. My heart goes out to all the families and friends. And the more I read the more I respect the people who could put their pain aside and help the others. I am not sure if people today could pull together like back then.
Posted by Michelle on January 27, 2007 09:40 PMMary and all the other family survivors, friends and townfolk - I can only imagine how very painful it is to rehash this horrible event - yet through your heartache, maybe other lives will be saved. I was in Old Town Arvada yesterday when the train flew by and I got shivers like never before...I will never forget your loved ones, though I never knew them. God speed, let us find joy in remembering the good times, like one person said her grandmother only remebers, and let us learn from the past. Thank you for this tastefully done series. I too look forward to finding out who the prisioner is...
Posted by Heidi on January 27, 2007 08:44 PMNadine...it's okay ...not much of a family secret . My brother has been in for 13 yrs. now. You will hear more from him later in the series . Right now you hear the part where Daddy is most involved . We lost Daddy 2 1/2 years ago. You will also hear more from my mom as they spent a lot of time interviewing her . She is a very strong and loving person. I hope you can understand some of the pain this causes . But I also hope people learn something important here to . Love your family as if it might be the last day you have them . Cherish friends and live life to the fullist . Because you might not have another day .
Posted by Mary Brantner on January 27, 2007 07:40 PMThank you, Mary, for your answer. It just didn't make sense when I was reading it, but now it does. May God bless you.
Deanna--about the prisoner. I know they are wanting to keep it a secret, but I'm pretty savvy with the internet and was very curious. If you go to the Colorado Dept. of Corrections website and to their inmate locator--input the prisoner ID number. You will find out who it is and why he is there. Very tragic situation.... (Sorry if I'm giving away the cliffhanger. I guess I'm the sort that reads the endings first.)
Posted by Nadine on January 27, 2007 07:14 PMI got sucked in to the story while my daughter was making pancakes. She badly needed my help, but the story grabbed me and didn't let go. I was up and down from the table; in and out of the story, but I couldn't let it sit. I felt the cold, I could see the ice crystals on the windows, I felt the bus jerk as it started up, and I couldn't swallow when 16 year old Hembry realized-to late-that a train was coming, suddenly, shockingly and with a sickening realization of what would happen. Kudos to Kevin Vaughn. Those victims are known to me now and not just part of some tragic incident from long ago.
Posted by Birgit on January 27, 2007 05:47 PMMr. Harmes is alive and in california . He to has a sad life with lots of his own pain . My mom wrote him once just before the trial and told him she did not blaim him and hoped he would find peace. She still wishes that for him
Posted by Mary Brantner on January 27, 2007 05:47 PMBB......In Chapter one of the story the gentleman described with the Detroit Tigers cap in California I think is to be Mr. Harmes. It matches his family description. Will probably be brougt up later. Rose
Posted by Rose on January 27, 2007 05:39 PMI am from a small town in Wisconsin and grew up in the 60's. There are a couple train tracks in our little town where trains would go though several time a day. I remember hearing stories of people who tried to beat the train so they would not have to wait. I am not saying that this is the case in this true story, but train track crossing was very dangerous back in the 60's where there was no warning or cross guards going down to prevent one from crossing the track. This story is so incredible that I get up early to get my paper and read it. I think about the families every day. My heart goes out to everybody involved in this tragedy. I am going to read this every day.
Posted by Terry on January 27, 2007 05:36 PMIt angers me the people out there that think that this story is a waste of the News and there are other stories to be told. This was a tragedy and still is. I am a bus driver and this story will really make you think and my kids have read it and have said this story really makes you think. My hats off to everyone who is envolved with this story. Thank You very much for printing it.
Posted by Renee on January 27, 2007 05:28 PMThis story is captivating. While the tragedy is stark and painful for what it was, it also seems to illustrate a defining moment in the change in the Colorado rural way of life. I look forward to reading more to see if this theme continues to be woven into the stories of those impacted by this terrible event.
Posted by tom on January 27, 2007 05:22 PMDeanna....You will find out shortly the answer to your question. But only in part. The writter spent several
days interviewing many members of the families involved. Lets just say he lets out more ghosts then you people could every imagine. Think of it as a real life soap story and there aren't as many happy endings as you might hope for.
I want to thank you for printing The Crossing. I have had to put the article down for awhile today as I could not read through my tears. My heart is broken for all that was and all that could have been. I appreciate all of the families and survivors for letting this story be retold at the cost of dredging up old memories and emotions for each of them. I was born and raised in Denver, I would have been 6 at the time , I never remember hearing about this until now. I pray that we would appreciate the brevity of life and live each day to the fullest. I am a believer in God and His son Jesus, and I am praying for each of the people involved from the Bus driver and his family to the Train driver,the Families whose children died to the ones who survived, that they would find peace... .Thank you for letting us in to your pain.
Posted by juli on January 27, 2007 05:01 PMGawd, hope the pace on this series picks up soon. Tragedy, certainly. But the story-telling is abysmal, especially for those who didn't have time to read the first installment or two. Two pages took us through the mundane chronology of picking up 17 kids, accompanied by 18 photos, even though a notation on the said 20 of 35 passengers were killed. Left unanswered: Did those 17 kids die or live? What about the bus driver? Then we were learn there is another month of this? Get to the point already....
Posted by prima facie on January 27, 2007 04:54 PMPlease reconsider the professional narrator on the next project.
Otherwise, congratulations.
Posted by Kenneth Smith on January 27, 2007 04:33 PMDoes anyone know if Duane Harms is still alive today and where he is living? Can you imagine the emotions he experienced?
Posted by BB on January 27, 2007 04:30 PMDoes anybody know why prisoner 83609 (in the chapter 1 story) is in
prison? The story just said he had bloody bedsheets in the back of his pick up and is into his 12th year of a 40 yr prison sentence
I appreciate, value and share the same faith as Mary Bratners Mom and family. I agree it is all in God's great and mighty plan. I greive for those left behind, the pain those parents, siblings, cousins... felt. Life is fragile, Thank God He is real and we can have eternal life through His Son. I am very touched by this story. Thank you for writing it in a very tasteful manner that we may learn from it. My heart goes out to the families, even after all these years. I was 3 at the time and as I look back over the years, I realize how much life on earth those who died missed. Thank you to the surviving victims for sharing your experience with us and God Bless you!
Posted by Brenda B. on January 27, 2007 03:36 PMI was in high school and remember the crash like it was yesterday. We were called into the gym at Greeley High and told what had happened. Having recently moved into the neighborhood I only knew the Brantners and remember seven weeks later attending the funeral for another son of theres that died in a car accident.. Seven years later I married my husband Gary. He attended Auburn school through the eighth grade before going to College High in Greeley. He farms the spot where the orrigional tracks were. Every summer day he walks or drives this spot . We have talked about it often and when we are next to the tracks we remember those that died there including his two cousins that died that day.
Posted by Susan Alles on January 27, 2007 03:28 PMI feel bad for Mr Harms what an incredible burden to carry. I grew up in a rural town and some fellow students were lost due to the angle of the tracks to the road and they didn't see or hear the train.
Posted by Deanna on January 27, 2007 03:24 PMScott~ It wasn't merely a car accident...
Posted by on January 27, 2007 03:01 PMTo answer Nadine...I'm Kathy Bratners sister and she was up front. The doctors told my mom that Kathy probly died of shock . Her other injurys where not that serious.But the shock was just to much. My brother Mark was in the middle of the bus . He died of massive injuries .
Posted by Mary Brantner on January 27, 2007 02:46 PMThank you, Mr. Vaughan, for researching and writing this powerful story, and thank you, Rocky Mountain News, for printing it.
I was a seventh grader in a small Christian school in Denver when the accident took place. I am the same age as some of the children involved. I do not remember hearing about the crash at the time. I am very moved by getting to read about it now. I hope it will be made available in book form. It's definitely something I want to keep. Even this early in the story, I am amazed by the courage of those who experienced this terrible tragedy.
To those who are reading who are the survivors, whether you were on the bus or are relatives or friends of those who were, may God be very close to you. I know that this sort of pain never goes away.
Posted by Suzanne Wolfram on January 27, 2007 02:25 PMI was born and raised in Greeley. I now live in Loveland. I vividly remember that tragic day. I was the same age as many of the children. My parents knew many of the families. I cried that day and for many days afterwards. I cried again today reading the story and watching the videos.
I worked for Dist. 6 as a young adult in the early 1970's. I started out as a bus aide and then I eventually became a bus driver. Dec. 14, 1961 was on our minds every day that we went to work. As a bus aide I had to get out of the bus at the railroad crossings, look both ways for trains, run across the tracks, then signal for the bus to pull forward. As a bus driver I would stop the bus at railroad crossings, open my door and window, look both ways, watch my aide cross the tracks and look for their signal to cross, and then I would look both ways again before I would precede across the tracks. I would even find myself stopping at crossings in my personal vehicle. Even after I no longer drove a school bus, I would find myself stopping before crossing railroad tracks. I still look both ways before crossing, even though the tracks I cross have guard arms and lights.
I know this story is difficult for the survivors and it is difficult for me to read also, but I think it is important for people that aren't aware of this tragedy to become aware of it. There are so many people here now that have no knowledge of the history of this part of Colorado. They have changed the area, for better or worse. They need to know what true Coloradans are made of; what our families worked long and hard for; what pain we have lived through and with; and the joy and happiness we knew living in a small community that has made this a place where so many people want to live.
To those that think the story is a waste of paper, maybe you should move back to where you came from. You have changed our future, but you can't take our past from us. Dec. 14, 1961 is a day none of us will forget or should forget. If anything, that fateful day made us stronger people, even though we were a close, strong, hard working community before this tragedy occurred.
To the families that lost children, siblings, cousins or friends that day, you have my deepest sympathy to this day and every day forward.
To all that perished Dec, 14, 1961, to those that survived and to those that remember that tragic day, thank you for being a part of a community that I will always cherish.
Three parts, Thirty-three parts or three hundred parts, I will continue to read this story. It has captivated me and as a mother of young children riding our present day school bus, it has broken my heart. I cannot imagine the pain these families went through and still go through today. There is much to be taught with this story and not just in the sense of bus/train accidents. The lessons taught here can be how precious life is, how a community can pull together, how one human can help another, how we can address present day school bus safety. I realize that modern day crossings have automated arms but even those can fail at times. I also realize that many people speed through school zones and run school bus stop signs as children are boarding. Please, please open your mind to all aspects of this story and apply the lessons to modern times so we will not suffer one more lose of any child to an accident. My heart goes out to the familes and communities that were affected by this tragedy.
Posted by Amy on January 27, 2007 01:57 PMI cannot comprehend why some of the comments are so vitriolic and hateful. The Rocky Mountain news is merely doing a very tasteful and well written series on a historic envent in the life of our Colorado Family. If you don't like the series please keep your hateful rhetoric to yourself.
I lived many years in Weld County not far from the location of the accident. This event was something that has left a very emotional impact on the entire area. The Rocky and the Greeley Tribune are doing a excellent service by providing a new generation a glimpse into an event which impacted a generation of Weld County residents in one way or another.
Posted by Nick G on January 27, 2007 11:59 AMI have lived in Co for 45 years and never heard of this terrible accident. I work in an elementary school and yesterday really looked at one of my classes. I can't even start to understand what the impact it would be to lose 22 children.My heart goes out to the families, community, and all of the people this touched and changed forever. The families,the writers that have brought this to us, thank you. When I send my only child off to school each day, I give her a bigger hug and tell her how we love her, and pray for her to return home safe again at night. Thank you.
For the people that have time to write and say that it's too long of a "story", shame on you. Don't read it.
Can anyone tell me--they said there was one person who survived that was seated in the back--who was that? Was it the Stromberger girl? (I thought they said she sat in the back and I know she survived.) Also, I don't understand how the Brantner girl didn't survive, when girls on either side of her lived. Is that correct? I guess the story doesn't make that clear. Did anyone die who was seated in the front half of the bus? (The seating portion of the story is sort of confusing.)
To those who are ranting about this story being 33 parts--don't read it! I can't believe the whack jobs who are posting here. It's like they need any opportunity to put on their tinfoil hats and rave on about politics and Iraq. Find the proper forum for this.
The story has been written. That cannot be changed. The tragedy happened, and that cannot be changed. What I experience when I read the story isn't about a morbid curiosity. The backside of this story is about strength, rebuilding, not healing, but the healing over of scars that will never go away. I don't think it's ever useful to denegrade somone's efforts to tell a story, even if it is an old one. It's about respecting things that we take for granted every day. It's about waking us up to awareness about train tracks and many other things like charging red lights, tailgating, and reading about how a moment of
time can change things forever, in an instant. Whenever I see a car, van or bus speeding down the highway, or charging a red light with young children in car seats...or God Forbid, racing across the train tracks in Sedalia for fear of being trapped waiting for the train...This story should hit home. I don't see where blame could be passed on anyone in this story, and no one has given me permission to judge it on what I have read. We get so mechanical in our regulations, we don't hear the voice that tells us each time we shudder to a stop at a yellow light, that someone in a mini-van, late to soccer practice might be
coming our way to ruin the day. We either prudently stop, or the alternative is to charge on through. These things that happen every day are in no way, the SAME as this bus story, but it is about getting up every day, and protecting our lives and the lives of those we love, and even further, protecting the lives of other people we don't even know. What a tragedy...but what a story! This story has made an impact on me. And it reminds me to "take care". If it had to be written, then I want to share that I have benefited from it.
I was teaching English at Evans High School on December 14, 1961. I did not lose any of my students in this tragedy, but I clearly remember a large number of students being called out of my class who had brothers, sisters, or cousins on that bus. I will never forget the feeling I had when news of the accident finally reached me. There was no Christmas in Greeley that year - no decorations, no parties, no joy - only grief and sadness. My husband and I drove out to the scene several months after the accident. We just sat there trying to imagine how such a tragedy could have happened. I am now in my late 60's, but this is an experience I will never forget.
Posted by Sharon Hartenbach on January 27, 2007 08:19 AMRocky Mountain News, thank you for this great piece of journalism. Let no one ever forget the power of the press, -- television will never be its equal.
Posted by Mamie Watts on January 27, 2007 07:45 AMThis is a powerful story that needs to be told as a reminder to each of us how incredibly important our friends and family are. Jobs are not. Clothes are not. What we drive or what we wear is not. What we weigh or how we wear our hair just does not matter. This story is a wonderful and tragic reminder of what we need to value. We all need to love our families. Love our friends. Do our jobs to live our lives, but not to become our lives.
Thank you to the Rocky Mountain News and the Greeley Tribune for this truly painful and important story. May we never forget how precious and fragile life is. May God bless and keep every person involved in this horrific accident and its aftermath.
Hogar...what an idiot you are to try to correlate the circumstances of 45 yrs ago to today....I suggest you spend time to read the history of Mr. Reynolds who had been warned of instigations of road rage and had the opportunity to prevent the convinction of premeditated murder . HE CAUSED THE DEATHS...Intentionally braking in front of the the other vehicle with intention to cause a reaction. You can only hope to take your foot out of your mouth....There is no correlation to then and now!!! I can't believe that you believe that Duane Harms had the intention of inciting a reaction to kill so many children. You are an example of the lunacy of the people who are here that don't understand the incidences of an accident. God forgive you for you idiocy!!!4382497
Posted by jm on January 27, 2007 12:38 AMHogar...what an idiot you are to try to correlate the circumstances of 45 yrs ago to today....I suggest you spend time to read the history of Mr. Reynolds who had been warned of instigations of road rage and had the opportunity to prevent the convinction of premeditated murder . HE CAUSED THE DEATHS...Intentionally braking in front of the the other vehicle with intention to cause a reaction. You can only hope to take your foot out of your mouth....There is no correlation to then and now!!! I can't believe that you believe that Duane Harms had the intention of inciting a reaction to kill so many children. You are an example of the lunacy of the people who are here that don't understand the incidences of an accident. God forgive you for you idiocy!!!4382497
Posted by jm on January 27, 2007 12:36 AMI never heard of this story, but my mother and father grew up and worked on the farms in this rural communites mentioned (Greeley, LaSalle.) I called my dad to ask him about this accident and he explained what he remembered. I am sorry and would embrace all those affected by this tragedy. With all in my thoughts and prayers. I feel it is important to never forget. By bringing this story to the paper brings together many in thought and prayer united in a spiritual way. There was a reason for this story. I cry every day while reading. 33, how interesting or coincidence for that number. God bless all people affected by this accident. Rose
Posted by Rose on January 26, 2007 11:59 PMI have been employed with the Greeley schools now for 3 1/2 years. I only learned of this accident about 4 months ago when I was in East Memorial Elementary and saw the plaque outside the office. The thing that grabbed my heart was the last names that were the same, siblings that lost their lives together. This story has totally engrossed me. To know that I worked in East Memorial Elemtary and didn't know why it was called that, I always wondered why it had its name. Now I know and I certainly won't forget. Thank you RMNs for doing this story!
Posted by Tyler on January 26, 2007 09:04 PMThere were four girls from our church, St. Paul's Congregational Church, who lost their precious lives that tragic morning. Two were cousins of my cousin.
Although I don't remember those girls from Sunday School there, I do remember the loving memorial that hung for years in the Sanctuary of Church - a portrait of Jesus and the children's names on a plaque on the bottom of the portrait.
The combined funeral was very sad.........with all 4 small caskets there. I remember a very sad holiday season as a result of the accident, and I think I appreciated how precious life was and how sad it would be for those parents who lost their children.
I also remember seeing the bus after it was moved to the CSHP lot,and distinctly remember the strands of sheet metal where the train tore through. The recent pictures in the articles bore this out.
I appreciate the stories, photos, videos and documents to help me understand better what happened that day to so many families in our close farming community who lost their beloved children, brothers, sisters, cousins, students, and friends. Although I was probably too young back then to give those families my condolences, I do it now because they should know that there are many of us who remember and until now may not have had the opportunity to let them know how we feel.
I still have questions about whether the train whistle even blew before approaching that crossing.
Posted by Randy on January 26, 2007 08:52 PMMy family never blamed anyone for this accident . My parents always said it was Gods will and we are not to question God . Accidents are just that . If it is your time to go then God will take you. My grandma always told me God needed more angels because it was christmas . And the kids who died where all angels now.
All my Mom asks is that you learn from our pain and not let it happen again.
I also went to Meeker Jr High in 1961. My brother missed the first passing of the bus becasue he was upset about having to take out the trash and mom said he couldn't go at that time. When Mr Harms came by he would pick him up first if he was ready. If not he would come back by on the regular route. Fate??? My mother was one of the people at the site trying to help pick up belongings and do what she could. I remember her saying barbers had to be brought in to gently cut hair from the barbed wire fencing. Like many that were still quite young when it happened I had not thought of it in many years. I am sorry if anyone who endured a great loss has been forced to re-live it all again. After reading all the posts I would just like to say wouldn't it be a good thing if us who are considered adults could actually act like one! Grow up, live and let live. No one is forcing those who don't care about it to read it. Maybe some of us are tired of all the scenes from the war. It seems evident we won't be changing that any time soon. An article like this also shows how fragile life is and it is right here where we CAN do something about it. Trains aren't the only danger in this life. Anybody ever try to stop a sem-truck when it's rolling?? I was nearly killed just last week when one pulled out in front of me as I was going close to 70 mph. Stop blaming eveyone and take responsibiltiy for your own actions. I believe everything happens for a reason, even nearly getting hit. It caused me to pay a whole lot more attention, as I should have been doing to start with! I can't imagine the burden Mr Harms had to carry with him. It was bad enough to have it happen and then on top of it all he was blamed. Did anyone consider that he didn't get up that morning thinking "I think I'll let a train hit the bus today." Accidents are just that! No more-no less. God bless all the caring and compassionte people in this world.
Donna
I THINK WAS GOOD FOR THOSE THAT DIDN'T WANT TO BURDEN THEIR RELATIVES FOR DETAILS ABOUT THAT SAD DAY.I'M SORRY FOR THOSE THAT WERE FURTHER HURT BY THE STORY.I THINK THE STORY HAS A PLACE IN HISTORY.I THINK ANY RUDE COMMENTS WERE UNCALLED FOR.YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO BUY THE PAPER OR READ THIS.BLESS THE FAMILYS THAT HAVE LOSSED LOVE ONES.
Posted by TINA BUCKLEY on January 26, 2007 05:49 PMWith that last bit of info, please agree to disagree for now. Nothing will be resolved by your debate as to the fault of the train crew - for many, it wasn't then and for many , it won't be now. I do know that the train crew was never charged after much investigation and discussion into their involvement. Until someone of credibility comes forth that was involved in those backroom meetings and decisions, we'll never know the reason(s) they weren't charged. Please accept the fact that Duane Harms was charged with involuntary manslaughter and found innocent - he had a fair trial under the laws of that time period. For the sanity of all...stop placing the blame...it was an accident! There are too many "what ifs" that can be imagined that would have prevented the accident. Such as...if the bus had been two seconds earlier, the accident would not have occurred. What other events of that morning could have been accelerated by two seconds? I can think of several, caused by the actions of other people that day, but you can't place the blame or fault with them either. It was an unfortunate accident. As I prayed 45 years ago for the friends I lost, those that were spared and their families, I do the same now that peace and comfort will fill their hearts and memories.
Posted by jm on January 26, 2007 04:42 PMI was a sophmore at Colorado State University when this tragedy occured. I grew up on a farm near Brighton and rode a bus for 12 years crossing a set of tracks 2 times in the morning and 2 times in the afternoon. We also had a couple of close calls where the bus driver just didn't want to wait on the train or he just didn't see it. I can remember complaining to my parents about it. I had a sister who was 8 years old riding that same bus I did for those 12 years. My heart sank at the news and I was heartfelt sick over it. I quickly learned to respect trains and tracks. To this day I still think about that accident and I can tell you this story seems to have revived the anguish I felt so many years ago. I pray that if nothing else you each will take a moment to consider how you would react to such a tragedy and that it motivates you to be careful in your driving habits. Slow down, take the time to look. Remember the families and pray for their continued strength as every day they must still suffer that terrrible loss.
Posted by Jim on January 26, 2007 04:30 PMI was a six year old girl in Greeley at the time of this accident. I remember it as if if were yesterday. Several young children from our church were victims of this accident. You are providing an amazing tribute to those who survived, those who died, and informing a generation of young people who never knew about this tragedy. I have had the great honor of riding in a school bus driven by Glen Ford. He drove me and my students to many school activities, and I was so awestruck by his commitment to getting school children to their events safely. Thank you, Glen.
Posted by Jo Anne on January 26, 2007 04:21 PMWho determines how fast a train can go over a grade crossing?
Since the train's speed can be such a critical factor in a grade crossing accident, it would seem the question of who determines the speeds at which railroads operate their trains over grade crossings would be of great import in determining liability when a crossing accident occurs. However, because of the supremacy of federal law (and regulations issued there under), this is generally not the case.
Operating under the authority granted it by Congress, the Federal Railroad Administration has issued regulations that establish different classifications of track with a maximum speed set for each classification of track. As long as a railroad maintains its track to meet the criteria for the classification of track it is operating on, that is the only speed limit it is required to be in compliance with. The practical effect of this is that as long as a train involved in a grade crossing accident was being operated at or under the federally established speed for that track when the accident occurred, it is extremely difficult if not impossible to make a claim that the railroad was negligent because it was operating its train at an excessive rate of speed.
Mary-
Trains to this day, go at higher speed right up to the town limits. Depends on the train. Passenger trains back then were high priority trains and allowed to go faster.
Cite your reference as to what the speed for UP trains in LaSalle was then. I would be curious to see it. I know that UP still runs trains through towns today at a high rate of speed depending on what the train is.
Passenger trains have always had a higher right of way allowing them higher speeds even in towns. And yes, the short City of Denver could have slowed significantly in 2 miles if LaSalle truely had a slower speed limit for passenger trains. Even today, Amtrak is allowed higher speeds through towns, than frieight trains are.
My Grandfather was an engineer for Souther Pacific and my father works for BNSF.
Like I said, the train is not at fault here. 25mph or 79mph, the bus driver screwed up.
Posted by Jeff on January 26, 2007 03:42 PMMary -
Could you email me at gina_0421@yahoo.com? We are the family of Melvin and Velma Morton.
Jeff....It is not alowed to go that fast that close to town. As he was only two miles out of LaSalle. He would not of been able to slow to the proper speed . And I do know my facts. My Grandfather was not only working for the railroad . He was at that time the General Chairman of the A.F.and C.I.O.Union business representive . In other words both of my grandfathers worked and retired from the railraod. At the speed he was going he would of still been going over 75miles when he hit LaSalle. And no that is not a legal speed for town.
Posted by Mary Brantner on January 26, 2007 02:51 PMMary -
The train has a posted speed limit just as a car does. The train also has RIGHT of way, always. The train is allowed to make up time with a faster speed limit outside towns. That is true even today. Maybe you should check into that before making an inaccurate statement.
The bus driver was in error. He did not check the corssing properly as well as having frosted windows preventing a full field of view. In auto/train accidents the driver of the car/truck/bus etc is always at fault. The train can't stop, nor can the train get off the tracks and chase a car/truck.bus down and hit them.
I have to wonder when people will stop whining about the train speed as a factor. Guess what? A train will still do a considerable amount of damage to a car/truck/bus etc even from 25 miles an hour. Your car or school bus is no match for a train at any speed and has NO business being on the tracks when a train is coming. STOP, LOOK, LISTEN and LIVE.
Posted by Jeff on January 26, 2007 02:00 PM“The Crossing” has impacted me in so many ways in the last few days. My great-grandparents lived in Greeley almost their whole lives. My dad would frequently come up and visit them. However, I had never heard about this accident until I got an e-mail in a list-serve. I cannot imagine the heartache these families have gone through. I lost three family members this past year and have struggle tremendously. But to lose someone in this manner and so unexpectedly…I cannot even begin to wonder.
As a journalism student at UNC, I am very impressed at how Mr. Vaughan has been writing this story. He has done it with great taste and with deep respect for the families.
I am a person, who like was mentioned in a previous comment, likes to focus on the happy things in life. I do not handle tragedy very well, but I cannot take my heart away from this story. I wish I could reach out to the families reliving this day and give them a hug.
You are in my thoughts and prayers and I have been crying along with you.
My sister emailed me about this story. We were 13 and 15 years of ages respectively when this accident happened and we were attending school at LaSalle Junior High. We lived across Highway 85 and were in a different school district, but had many friends and new most all the children that were on the bus. My best friend, Janell, lived down the road from the Brantners and knew them well and I did as well through her association. Mrs. Brantner had been visiting with Janell's mom the summer before and the two children that had died in the accident were there playing in the yard. What delightful children. Also, we knew quite well the old brother who died in a car accident just a couple months after the school bus tragedy. Their family has sustained a lot of heartache and I can see that this has been very upsetting to them. It is still a very vivid memory of mine and all those that were near. As in any accident, that is exactly what it was - an accident. No one can be to blame and, anyway, we can't go back in time and correct things, but, perhaps we can learn from tragedies. I know that the bus driver suffered from a lot of guilt as the back of the bus was hit. It was a very, very foggy day that morning. My family (I have a brother and another sister) moved about a year later to an 80 acre farm that was owned by the family that lost their 2 girls in the accident. The girls were 11 and 13. We saw all of their personal belongings (toys, etc.) back in a small dump area by the Latham reservoir. How that mother and father went on to live a normal live was amazing to me. They had to have a lot of faith to sustain them.
I hope to this day that through this tragedy I had helped a classmate at least think about God and it would have been through the happenings of that day. This boy in my high school class was a non-believer and we would banter back and forth. One of the girls (about age 9) that had died in the crash had been talking with her mom shortly before the crash and was talking about angels and heaven......I think she must have had a feeling of what was going to happen. I hope this boy had his eyes opened.
At the time of the crash, the road crossed the tracks at a very odd angle and it was hard for a driver to see both ways......It had always been a concern. I don't believe there were crossing signals. After the crash, they changed the angle of the road. (Of course, isn't that always the way things have to happen, unfortunately?)
My heart goes out to all the families involved in the tragedy. I know our family afterwards did a lot more hugging and saying "I love you", as we realized how things could change in just the blink of an eye. My mother cried so hard when she heard of the news. We were in school at the time and she had to call just to hear our voices. It was so close and it could have been us. Some day when we are in heaven with the Lord, we will know the answer.
It is interesting to compare the legal outcomes of the road rage incident, where the driver slammed on his brakes, but the response of the other driver to his actions are what lead to a fatal accident. With Harms, it was 100% his actions which lead to the deaths of 20 children. Harms was aquited, while Jason gets life. How times and attitudes have changed.
Posted by Hogar De Vuelta (العودة) on January 26, 2007 10:20 AMMay the Peace of Christ be with the families. 2 modes of transportation both on a time schedule. One already late. One not wanting to be late. Denver is a very active train city. People must take this article and realize the issue of safety everytime tracks are approached. View the railroad X sign as crossbones. Never hurry at a crossing. When I was 13, I worked at a gas station. The crossing was on the other side of the highway. I heard the impact of the train hitting the Jeep. The driver had just picked up his marriage license. John
Posted by John Smoorenburg on January 26, 2007 05:07 AMI was born in 1964. My aunt and uncle were killed that day. My family has never talked much about this horrible day from our past. I searched archives looking for the story so that I wouldn't have to ask my mother or grandmother about the accident. I didn't want to revive the painfull memories. I lived on my grandparents farm and rode that same bus route to kindergarden at east memorial elementary. My mother told me that putting me on that bus the first day of school was one of the hardest things she ever had to do. My family was changed forever that day. Without this story I could only guess at the details too painfull to discuss. I know that this article has caused painfull memories to surge to the surface but they have been festering deep within for years. Affecting the lives of the families and decendants in ways that no one could ever imagine. You are helping me understand my families ghosts as well as my own. Thank you.
Posted by melanie on January 26, 2007 02:38 AMMy prayers go out to the survivors, families, and friends of all those still grieving this terrible tragedy. I was born in '63' in Denver and remember my mother telling about this sad event. I never really understood why she would never allow me to ride a school bus but instead chose to drive me the 7 miles to and from school every day. She even went as far as to attend most of my school trips, now I know that she didn't want me on the bus alone. We were actually on a school bus together that was hit while turning out of the Denver Zoo. Fortunately nobody was seriously injured in our accident but I'm sure it just reinforced her fears. Please accept my sympathies.
>>>I wonder if the people complaining about this article are the same people I see stopping on train tracks. The same people who edge closer and closer to my bumper when I stop far enough away to be safe. The same ones who pass me when I stop a safe distance away and position themselves on the track placing everyone around them in danger. I pray this same tragedy never affects these ignorant selfish people. Laura
Posted by Laura on January 25, 2007 09:59 PMi think it's really cool that you guys are doing this. my dad lost two sisters in this accident and one survived. i am seventeen years old and i think this is a good way to learn about something that was impactful on my dads life
Posted by K on January 25, 2007 03:30 PMGREAT STORY IM PRINTING IT OFF THE INTERNET EVERY DAY, I LIVE IN CENTRAL WYOMING, I JUST CANT HELP CRYING,SEEMS THESE CHILDRENS LIVES WHERE FOREVER CHANGED BY THIS ONE TRAGIC EVENT. YOUR STORY IS WONDERFUL,IT MAKES YOU APPRECIATE EVERY MOMENT GOD GIVES US. NEVER TAKE LIFE FOR GRANTED. THANK YOU BARBARA HANNA WYOMING
Posted by BARBARA BOAM on January 25, 2007 02:08 PMI can't stop reading this article and can't wait for each day. It is really a moving piece. I grew up in Ohio before moving to Colorado and we had many terrible train accidents. To this day I have trouble crossing them. I had not heard of this event before so thank you. And thank you to those that were involved and providing insight.
My thoughts are with all.
Posted by Mike on January 25, 2007 01:37 PMI was in the 9th grade at Meeker Jr. High and will never forget that dreary cold day that someone came into our classroom with the announcement about this horrible accident. I knew several of the kids on that bus and 2 of the ones killed were friends of mine. The memories of the families and children and their relatives and friends will be in my heart forever. Thank you for not letting anyone forget. -
Posted by Steve Adams on January 25, 2007 12:38 PMAs a 4th generation Denverite living in Denver at the time of this accident, it breaks my heart to read about it. I'm curious: why are you publishing this story?
Beverly M.
As a 4th generation Denverite living in Denver at the time of the accident, it breaks my heart to read about it. I'm curious to know why you are publishing this story? B. Morrisey, Denver
Posted by beverly morrisey on January 25, 2007 12:27 PMCorrection on yesterday's posting:
Web address for Operation Lifesaver:
oli.org
Safety at RR crossings.
Become a presenter or ask for a presentation for any type of group.
All presentations are FREE!
Ed
Posted by Ed on January 25, 2007 11:32 AMOnly those sho haven't lived here long enough to understand what this accident did to virtually the entire state, would make the hateful, hurtful and negative comments as some posted here.
I was 12 and I'll never forget how horrific this was. Thank you for NOT forgetting.
Susanne
i live in reno, great story, people get hit by trins here too, you have to stop and listen at the tracks,some dont have crossing signs and lights
Posted by tom on January 25, 2007 10:02 AMAgain, thank you for running this series. In case the sentiment is lost in the midst of some of the comments posted here: Thank you.
Thirty-three chapters is not too many; the value of the story isn't only in the simple reporting of the facts on that accident day; people who find this too painful don't need to read it, and; for many of us who are personally connected to The Crossing, this is important work and soothing. Thank you. If I live 45 more years to read a similar treatment of the impact of the Iraq war on a small community, I will find value in that as well.
Posted by ken on January 25, 2007 09:59 AMI worked for the Alaskan Railroad for 2 years out of highschool and understand the system and the people who work there and the tight scheduling of work, passenger and trains and maintenance crews. Reading these arcticles reminds of the extremely close call at a RR crossing while working for a soda company. I drove a delivery truck on a route North of Anchorage to a fishing resort and had to cross 2 sets of tracks. The resort was East of the main highway and down a dirt road heavily treed on both sides. As I was leaving the resort I had my windows half down as it was a warm July morning, no radio on and no sounds other than the birds singing. The crossing had no drop down makers or lights and I had never seen a train pass by in the previous 3 years on this route. I always looked North first thinking the passenger trains filled with tourists would be returning from the Mount McKinley Park and it was easy to see for several hundred yards down the line. I remembered this scheduling from the year working for the AKRR on an extra gang in this area. No train was visible and I looked South which had limited vision do to the curve in the track only 100 yards away and the hill which had been cut away for the laying of the rail line. I proceeded across the track slowly as this was my first stop and the truck was loaded for a very busy day. As the front tires rolled or the outside track I heard a noise and looked to my right. A train was approaching at a very quick pace blowing the horn, I immediatley jumped on the accelerator and the truck lerched forward to the other side of the tracks as the train raced past. My company had recently upgraded my vehicle to a shorter, faster and more economical version and this saved my life as the older truck would never had made it out of the way.
I knew the conductor would be calling this close call to his supervisor and decided to get witness statements of the locals living by the resort. Unanimously they confirmed it was an extremely dangerous crossing with limited visibilty and several near misses a summer were known throughout the years. They had complained to the AKRR that the trains were exceeding the recommended 25 mph speed limit, easily cruising by at 50 to 60mph. Several residents timed the trains by driving adjacent to it on the main road 200 yards to the east of the tracks.
I am still living today only through fate and incredible luck. The vision looking out the passenger window of a train racing toward me is frightening and seems like it happened only yesterday even though it was in 1992. I am anxious to read this entire account of the story and what happened to the unfortunate bus driver. One can judge him as wrong, look at his mistakes and not ever understand that in many ways he did everything right under normal circumstances. Anyone of us could have been driving that bus which changed so many lives.
It is simply unbelieveable that the Rocky could devote 66 pages to an tragedy that happened 45 years ago when EVERY DAY families are being torn apart by the tragedy that is Iraq. Instead of printing pages full of pictures of kids who died 45 years ago, how about printing the pictures of the kids who died YESTERDAY as a result of our triumphant victory ("mission accomplished"). We could show pictures of the Iraqi children who died in bomb attacks, we could show pictures of the brave American teens who laid down their lives for a cause based on "faulty intelliegence" - OR we could just distract people from the real issues by devoting 66 pages to a bus accident that happened 45 years ago. Oh well, I guess the true news doesn't win Pulitzer News Prizes, no doubt this morbid waste of ink will. You guys should be ashamed.
Posted by Just Another Fan on January 25, 2007 09:11 AMThank you for writing this story, my aunt was one who was killed in this horrible crash and it was my dads wrestling metal she was holding. I remember my dad telling me this story many times but this story goes into much greater detail. For those of you who think its "too long or dont want to read somone elses sob story" DONT READ IT no one is asking for your simpathy. There are plenty of families and friends of famiies who practically founded this area that it affects. Please dont put your hearless comments, it is a story of our communities history and thank you for telling it!
Posted by Matt Alles on January 25, 2007 08:39 AMAs with others, my heart goes out to all those who suffered as a result of this devastating accident.
We have not lived here long enough to have heard about this before. Although I believe the articles are being done as tastefully as possible under the circumstances, and I will continue to read them all to learn what happened, I agree that 33 days is much too long, both for readers and for the families of the victims. Have some heart, don't put them through this over and over again every day.
kudos......i remember the day my cousin was killed and
another injured.......well done story mike beard
I attended EME and can remember all the names on the plaque and how each year there was a reminder of who the kids were, why their names were there and what had happened. The history and factual details are interesting but I have to agree that the number of days in print is not really necessary for those who truly lived it. May God give you peace and comfort once again throughout this difficult time.
Posted by DME on January 24, 2007 11:12 PMI just read some of the comments on the article, The Crossing. I do understand that it has been 45 years since this happened but sometimes it seems like just yesterday. I also hope that this can help many of the survivors of this accident. You have to look for the positive reasons that this article can have on people. We live in a world of bitterness, distrust, and no sympathy for people anymore. As a survivor of this accident, there are alot of memories that I don't remember or care to, but I do remember all the get well cards that I received from strangers. This would not happen today. I also would like to thank all of those people for their prayers and wishes that were sent to me at that time. Sometimes you have to accept what has happened in your life and keep going on with it in a better and more positive way. Try being kinder and nicer to people rather than cutting and making fun of people. You never know what has happened in their lives that has changed them to be the way they are. I feel that the article could possibly help to accept what has happened in their lives. You can't dwell on the negative or the past, but need to look at what you can do the change the bad. My life changed in many ways, that I didn't and possibly still don't know why. But I thank God everyday for surviving another day. I will look forward to the remaining articles as they are being presented in a very thoughtful and caring manner.
Posted by CH on January 24, 2007 09:56 PMI just read some of the comments on the article, The Crossing. I do understand that it has been 45 years since this happened but sometimes it seems like just yesterday. I also hope that this can help many of the survivors of this accident. You have to look for the positive reasons that this article can have on people. We live in a world of bitterness, distrust, and no sympathy for people anymore. As a survivor of this accident, there are alot of memories that I don't remember or care to, but I do remember all the get well cards that I received from strangers. This would not happen today. I also would like to thank all of those people for their prayers and wishes that were sent to me at that time. Sometimes you have to accept what has happened in your life and keep going on with it in a better and more positive way. Try being kinder and nicer to people rather than cutting and making fun of people. You never know what has happened in their lives that has changed them to be the way they are. I feel that the article could possibly help to accept what has happened in their lives. You can't dwell on the negative or the past, but need to look at what you can do the change the bad. My life changed in many ways, that I didn't and possibly still don't know why. But I thank God everyday for surviving another day. I will look forward to the remaining articles as they are being presented in a very thoughtful and caring manner.
Posted by CH on January 24, 2007 09:54 PMDear Mary,
I was in the fourth grade and I remember that day well. I knew many stories. Although I didn't know your family personally, my mother told me of the death of your brother and sister and I remember your dad's face at church when he would go to communion. Then when your brother died in the other accident I could not imagine his grief. I have thought of your dad many times over the years. Through these two days of stories it is your dad's face that I see the most. God bless your whole family.
We have had an out pouring of love sent to my mom both in phone calls and letters . Mom says to thank everyone who has cared about this and the pain it's caused . Gina, my mom would love to hear from your family . And Diana thank you too. As you remeber we have a very close community out there and have stayed close to all those neighbors.I'm not sure which brother you went to school with as I had 5 brothers.
Posted by Mary Brantner on January 24, 2007 08:29 PMI crossed that crossing many times, and then later, many times, I crossed the crossing as they made that old dirt rode face the tracks the way it should have faced them before.
I was 13 and attended LaSalle schools. I remember our principal announcing that there had been a terrible bus-train wreck and assuring us that if we heard the news, it was not one of our busses. But he knew we would know many of the children because LaSalle was so close.
Our family later moved to the home and farm of a family who lost two girls. The mother could no longer bear to live there. I remember her anguish over something so simple as the white telephone she left behind because one of the girls had picked it out (when black was the norm).
She was a girl in my church's confirmation class that year, along with me. I graduated with a boy who luckily took a different ride that day. Many of those children attended the German Congregational church I attended. I went to 4-H meetings with others who missed the bus. And mostly I remember the survivors who later lived near me. My sister used to babysit you, Mary. We attended school with your brother. We know how your family suffered. And we are so sorry.
I looked at all those faces that were printed today (Wednesday) and all those memories really flooded back. I am so sorry that these intervening years have made the shock and the sadness leave me, as I an my family never suffered. I was ashamed but grateful that it took this story to me to remember these lovely, lovely children. I said a prayer for them all and for their families.
I do remember one story, and I don't remember which family it came from, and now I am not sure if it is accurate. But I remember that it was said that one of the little girls who died that day awoke that morning and said she had dreamed that God had come down to earth to pick flowers. If the story is not true in actuality, it is true in spirit. He still has his beautiful flowers.
Posted by Diana on January 24, 2007 07:23 PM"In the first article on Monday, John Temple wrote that the Rocky Mountain News' motive for writing this story was to look into the longterm implications of terrible tragedies."
I'd be a lot more interested in non-terrible tragedies. In fact, I'd pay serious money to see just ONE!
It's bad enough that JonBenet Ramsey has been on the front page every day for ten years. This 45 year-old morbid scab-picking is too much!
Posted by David Hakala on January 24, 2007 05:48 PMTrain-School Bus Collision: Greeley, Colorado
Time and Date: 8:30 a.m., Dec. 14, 1961
Weather conditions: Hazy
Event: School bus drives on to rail-highway grade crossing in front on an approaching train.
Injuries: 20 school bus passengers died, 16 bus passengers injured.
Description of collisions: A yellow school bus tried to cross a set of diagonal tracks. As the bus entered the grade crossing it was hit by a Union Pacific Railroad Co. train traveling at 79 miles per hour. The train slammed into the side of the 60-passenger bus, tearing it in half. Parts of the bus were carried 455 feet down the track.
Due to extreme cold that morning, the rear bus windows were frosted. The driver had a narrow two-inch clear space to see out the window. The tracks crossed County Road 52 diagonally so the driver had to look over his left shoulder to see if a train was coming. The grade crossing did not have flashing lights or a warning signal, only a crossbuck sign. The driver testified that he stopped before crossing the tracks, a point confirmed by one of the children who survived.
School bus driver 23-year-old Duane Harms was arrested and charged with involuntary manslaughter. He was released when the supervisor of the transportation department of School District #6 posted $1,000 bail. Following a three day trial in Weld District Court, Harms was found innocent.
Judging from the posts that are already surfacing from people who were affected by this tragedy, this series is justified in its purpose, to examine the lifelong affects such an event can create. There are certain tragedies that have wounded our nation in years since and their coverage is hardly criticized or shrugged off, nor will it be 47 years from now. We don't need to revisit this story to gawk, to exploit, to hurt or to teach. We need to remember, to memorialize the victims, alive and dead. I believe that these writers are respecting history, affecting our lives and fullfilling the duty that all writing aspires to. Hard work and care has gone into this project and I believe it will shine through in the chapters to come. You can get your news anywhere, but there are few publications that will offer you such a perspective as this one.
Those who think they already know what to expect, that they would rather read something else, or that they could get this from some other Denver publication should keep reading. They may be wrong.
In the first article on Monday, John Temple wrote that the Rocky Mountain News' motive for writing this story was to look into the longterm implications of terrible tragedies. With this in mind, I want to make it known what my grandmother told me.
My grandmother is Marie Alles, the mother of Linda Alles - one of the children who died.
After I had graduated from college, one day (out of the many) I visited my grandma Marie. We were chatting - sitting in her living room - and she said, "When you get older, you only remember the good things." She said a few more things, but those words really stuck in my memory. She made a personal choice of what she would remember. My grandmother had to endure a lot in her life. She endured through it all by making a personal choice - to think on those things that are good and lovely. This is how she endured and made it through her life. So; by thinking this way, she experienced more happy times after this tragedy.
She remains alive. She is 90 years of age and lives in a nursing home in Greeley.
-Felicia (Alles) Trecek
Daughter of Kenneth R. Alles
Stories like this make us realize that most of our problems are small and nothing compaired to what others go thru. My sympathy goes out to all that were affected by this tragedy. And I do appreciate your sharing this painful experience. I only wish I could do something to ease your heartach.
"Rick...my mom cried till midnight last night remembering finding my sister dead by the side of the road. It's not about going home again... "
I'm just looking in!
This is none of my business, I'm sorry!
Posted by Rick on January 24, 2007 02:54 PM33 parts of a 45 year-old story are absolutely necessary when you need to fill space with this new, tiny type!
Jesus H. Christ on an iPod, isn't there ANYTHING happening in Colorado now?! I can find more original and interesting content in The Thrifty Nickel!
Posted by David Hakala on January 24, 2007 12:54 PMI was I believe the first news reporter on the scene and your story brought me a flood of memory and emotion-I was preparing my morning newscast at what was then KYOU in Greeley and heard on the police monitor there was an accident with injuries. I rushed to the scene and arrived before the Highway Patrol-The scene, wreckage, items of clothing, blood-splattered hand-drawn Christmas pictures lying in the snow - people running across the snowing fields in a panic...I made my first on-air report (which was carried nationally on ABC) at a nearby home into which a few of the surviving children had wandered-I was barely 18 but the experience has haunted me throughout more than 30 years as a broadcast journalist. I clearly remember sitting through long and arduous federal hearings into the cause and witting with Duane Harms as we waited for some kind of conclusion to be annouced. Consolation to the families of the children is beyond words for it's a memory that can not dissolve with time. While it is a tragic part of history I can not imagine the feelings of grief this series must revive but I do know it was a story I wished I'd never covered..
Posted by Larry Cooper on January 24, 2007 12:07 PMBeing an Operation Lifesaver volunteer presenter, these type of incidents are what all OL presenters are trying to prevent.
Check out ourweb site at oli.com.
As you can see from this story, these memories live on for a long time. Not only for the surviving families, but the train crew & their families. A lot of crews quit their jobs and never work again.
All of these incidents are preventable, if everyone would "Look, Listen & Live". "Expect a train on any track at any time". "Don't go around when the gates are down". Unfortunately train crews see these violations every day.
Each RR has OL safety trains where all law enforcement & emergency personnel will ride the train & become more informed about the dangers at RR crossings. Also there could be officers on the engine watching for violators and radio to officers at the crossing so they can write tickets for these violators. There are also on-board cameras to record the violation & prove the crew was doing everything properly.
Contact your state coordinators in each individual states & become an OL presenter.
Thanks for reading this.
Ed
Posted by Ed on January 24, 2007 10:52 AMTK at 644pm talks about a person who goes from the bus to the rail crossing to look each way for an oncoming train and gets back on the bus after the bus get over the crossing safely. This is a current practice in the Greeley School district today for any bus that crosses the railroad track at grade - 45 years after this tragedy.
Posted by Tim on January 24, 2007 09:13 AMTK at 644pm talks about a person who goes from the bus to the rail crossing to look each way for an oncoming train and gets back on the bus after the bus get over the crossing safely. This is a current practice in the Greeley School district today for any bus that crosses the railroad track at grade - 45 years after this tragedy. This person is not a student they are hired to do what they do.
Posted by Tim on January 24, 2007 09:04 AMMy heart goes out to everybody who has suffered though this all of these years and having to relive it now. I want to especially say to the Brantner family that I am sorry for the great loss you have had to endure. My Mom is a cousin of yours and remembers you all and what you have had to go through.
Posted by Gina on January 24, 2007 08:44 AMRick...my mom cried till midnight last night remembering finding my sister dead by the side of the road. It's not about going home again... it's pure hurt and the families don't deserve it. It has nothing to do with going home again...just deaths of childern. And more pain for the ones left.
Posted by Mary Brantner on January 24, 2007 08:14 AMTo 10:41 and Jason,
Why do you care that it's 66 pages and why do you care about the motives of the writer? This isn't about you, your feelings or interests.
This is about relating the events and the subsequest cause and effect of that moment in time.
Some of us wish we could go home again!
Smile and be gratefull!
Posted by Rick on January 24, 2007 08:07 AMTo answer Jason...the famlies didn't want to relive this again. But the writer was insistant that people needed to know. It has hurt my mom, who lost two kids that morning very much. She wanted them to leave it be. And yes they are dragging it out and no one is happy about it . The people involved still remember it as like yesturday.
Posted by Mary Brantner on January 24, 2007 07:39 AMWonderful story. Must be heart wrenching for those that were there to have all this resurface. But 33 parts? Seem like a ploy to sell more papers. How about a week or 10 days? Either way I am going to read it each day on the web.
Posted by Posted by on January 24, 2007 06:32 AMI mean no disrespect to the families involved in this tragedy... But 33 parts seems excessive, even for a feature story. It also seems like a cheap ploy to attract readers more than an attempt to fully encompass the story. How many parts was the Pullitzer winner last year? I could be wrong, but it didn't seem like 33.
Posted by Jason on January 24, 2007 12:51 AMHey 10:41, my guess is no one is forcing you to read this. New medicines? Gene therapy? You must be pretty selective in your reading. Seems like I'm seeing all this stuff every day in the newspaper.
As for better understanding of the world, don't you think this story might give us some insight? Most of us out here in the real world deal with tragedy all the time. Reading about its long-term affects might give us some of the 'understanding' you're talking about. Perhaps some college text books would better suit you?
Posted by Avery on January 23, 2007 11:53 PM33 parts - that's 66 pages if they're all two-page spreads like this.
Over a crash 45 years ago.
Of course it doesn't help that the Pulitzer seems to go out to anybody with an effectively gut-wrenching human interest story, but imagine if you had actually dedicated 66 pages to something that would give readers a better understanding of the world around them and made them better citizens. What if you had 66 pages on the effects of globalization at home and abroad? Or 66 pages on how fundamental barriers of biology are being attacked from all sides as we overcome them with new medicines, gene therapy, probiotics and so on? If I wanted to read someone's sob story in a format longer than I ever care to read, I'd read Westword.
Posted by on January 23, 2007 10:41 PMExcellent story and series. This is now an obsure piece of Colorado history that has left its mark on the community, state and nation. I'm sincerely pleased to see your tasteful and relevent series on this tragedy.
I moved to east Greeley from the western slope many years after the accident. In an effort to learn about the area I would talk to the neighbors about the history of the rural neighborhood. This accident was always one of the first items they spoke of. One neighbor was a survivor of the accident. Another had children waiting for the very bus that was hit. Somone else had a sibling killed in the accident. Without a doubt it left an indelible mark on the community.
Thank you
Posted by Roy Nichols on January 23, 2007 09:58 PMI attended Auburn in the First Grade and lived "next door" to the Brantners and just down the road from the Fords. I knew many of the kids on that bus, but had moved to a different school before the accident occurred. I feel great sadness for the families of all of those children. Although I was quite young, I still have vivid, good memories of my Auburn school mates. Thanks.
Posted by Suzanne on January 23, 2007 09:35 PMI was not even born when this happened (76), but when I was younger my parents used this as a lesson to me and my brother about how careful we must be around train tracks. Today, I use this also as an example about several different lessons. How to be careful around train tracks, how being late is ok if it means putting your life in harms way, that taking short cuts can result in harm, that life is short and to embrace every day as your last. This story teaches so many lessons and I hope that people take from it a lesson for themselves that can be passed on to their children so this NEVER happens again.
My prayers and thoughts go out to the families, friends and community members who suffered from this loss.
Posted by TK on January 23, 2007 06:44 PMI was in third grade at Nunn
school north of Greeley when
this happened. One the girls
who died on that bus had attended
school in Nunn and was a friend
of my older sister. After this
accident, a high school boy would
"walk the tracks" which meant
getting out and crossing the tracks
by foot before the bus crossed
a railroad crossing. This practice
was continued for many years.
I was on a bus that crossed the same tracks 5 minutes earlier, I was going to church school. My best friend was one that was talked about today, my Dad and mom took a girl to the hospital. I remember going to almost all the funerals.
Very awesome project,
I have read today's chapter with compelling interest to try to understand why tragedies like these happen...and I just want to say with the sincerest of compassion, that my heart goes out to all those affected that day nearly nine months to the day before I was born in September 1962, to the families, townspeople, adults responsible on both sides of the tragedy, and most of all, to those innocent little schoolchildren whose only care in the world on that cold morning was to make it to school and stay warm. I have a good friend whose best friend was taken that morning; she was only eight years old at the time and still suffers survivors' remorse to this day. Let this be a reminder to each of us that no one knows whether or not this day will be our last; life is a precious gift that is best never taken for granted but entrusted daily to the Creator.
Posted by Dee on January 23, 2007 03:58 PMIt was certainly a tragedy. No one mentioned the trauma that afected the Engineer of that train. If you are curious do some research - What became of that Engineer? Many blamed the train crew for the accident. A train takes the better part of a mile to stop. Next time you cross the tracks with gates down or don't stop, look and listen, and there is a train approaching. Consider how the train crew feels. They are helpless and often victims themselves.
Posted by Chris on January 23, 2007 03:50 PMYou should be asking why the train was going 80 mph just three miles outside of LaSalle . It wasn't the bus drivers fault it was the train. He was several hours late and was trying to make up time....going to fast
Posted by Mary Brantner on January 23, 2007 03:43 PMNot only did this affect the lives of the children but to the bus driver as well. The bus driver has to live with this tradegy for the rest of his life. We can't make assumpations to blame or even say he was careless in this event. People make mistakes and we can't judge.
Posted by Julie on January 23, 2007 03:37 PMMy family has had to endure more heart ach then most . It was only seven weeks after this accident that took my sister and brothers life that my oldest brother was also killed in a car crash. My family is a strong and loving one. This going over it again has been very hard on my mom. It happened not 200 ft. from home. I hope you people learn from others heart aches.
Posted by Mary Brantner on January 23, 2007 03:34 PMHow could the bus driver be so careless and not see or hear a train?
I would have scraped the window until I could see before ever considering crossing he track.
These totally preventable grade crossing collisions continue even to this day.
How could the bus driver be so careless and not see or hear a train?
I would have scraped the window until I could see before ever considering crossing he track.
These totally preventable grade crossing collisions continue even to this day.
I would add that I have heard very little of this story from my father, the Delta School principal at the time of the accident. I will be following this series with interest in the hope that I'll learn how this impacted him and why we became a family that expressed little emotion to each other since 1961. I think it's possible that my life is different in many ways bacause of this. Thank you for the series and thank you "Rich" for your posting!
Posted by ken on January 23, 2007 01:23 PMWhat a stunning venue for such a tragic story! I'm looking forward to learning about this...
Rick from Ohio
Posted by Rick on January 23, 2007 01:17 PMI lived in Greeley across from one of the mortuaries and remember the heartache and anguish that shrouded the town at that time. My children were preschool age and remarked that no one smiled anymore.
I will log one everyday to read these articles.
My first question was "why"?. Why revisit that morning more than 45 years ago? Was a piece of your heart on that bus that day?
Whatever the reason, you have me hooked.
You certainly have the eloquence and grace with which to retell the story with the dignity that it deserves. A tragic picture of how hundreds of lives can change in a flash. Thank you.
I agree with Ken, that it is an important story. I am not old enough to have been there that day, but I knew Ken's dad, and I drove a school bus that picked up kids at those same farms, crossed the same tracks at the new crossing and took them to East Memorial Elementary, named to honor the children who died. Outside of Weld County this is a forgotten tale. Thank you for remembering with us.
Posted by Rich on January 23, 2007 11:42 AMReading this is like being punched in the stomach. I moved here in 1975 and never heard a word about this.It must have too painful for people to talk about.
WOW!
This is an amazing story. The fact that 20 children from a rural community were killed in seconds on one morning makes this so sad. A whole community was leveled. My father was the principal at the school that these kids were being driven to. He had to ID many of the kids from their remains when the parents were unable to handle the task. He hasn't spoken much of this for 45 years. It impacts all who were touched by the tragedy -- to this day.
The death of these kids was indeed tragic, but on an annual basis, buses hit by trains does not even enter the chart for causes of death.
Among 15 to 24 year olds, the 2 leading causes of death are motor vehicle accidents and firearms.
If we want to help our kids live through their youngers years, we need to demand more application of technology to force the kids to drive in a more responsible manner.
Motor Vehicle Accidents 10,560 33.7%
Firearms 6,575 21.0%
NOTE: Firearms Statistics Include Gang Warfare, Self Defense Shootings and Criminals Killed by Police
Posted by Hogar De Vuelta (العودة) on January 23, 2007 11:17 AMFor someone like Scott who wasn't there, maybe 33 parts is to long but, he wasn't there. I was. 33 parts can't begin to tell the whole story. It was devestating to the community and I still have very vivid memories of that event. Like it said, I was there at the site on that cold, cold day and saw my friends laying there on the cold, cold ground...........
Posted by Roger on January 23, 2007 10:00 AM33 parts? That's a lot to write about one car accident.
Posted by Scott on January 23, 2007 08:40 AMHey Mark - how about a thread to discuss the stupid bill from Ken Gordon that abolishes electoral college voting for Colorado?
Posted by on January 23, 2007 07:52 AM