October 29, 2007 8:31 AM
Tancredo: adios to House if he's not in White House
Rep. Tom Tancredo, polling in the single digits and stuck firmly in the lower tier of Republican Presidential aspirants, won't run for Congress again, reports M.E. Sprengelmeyer.
Tancredo, 61 , waited until after the Colorado Rockies' last out of the World Series on Sunday night before announcing that he plans to retire from Congress at the end of this, his fifth term."It's the fact that I really believe I have done all I can do in the House, especially about the issue (immigration) about which I care greatly," he said.
Tancredo said other people are now taking up leadership on the immigration issue.
On a personal note, he added, "I am certainly looking forward to a time when at least a week can go by when I don't have to get on an airplane."
Which is not to say Tancredo intends to disappear from politics.
Until now, Tancredo has tried to put off any talk of what he would do if his White House bid fell flat. But over the summer, he began hinting that he had his eyes on a 2010 contest against Sen. Ken Salazar, a Democrat he sees as his polar opposite on the immigration issue.
A Tancredo-Salazar race would doubtless be among the juicier political matchups in the nation in 2010.
Do you agree with Tancredo's decision? Will the fight against illegal immigration suffer if he's out of the limelight?
October 29, 2007
9:43 AM
c76 writes:
Tancredo is a racist moron and an embarrassment to the entire state. We're all better off without him.
October 29, 2007
9:44 AM
c76 writes:
Tancredo is a racist moron and an embarrassment to the entire state. We're all better off without him.
October 29, 2007
9:44 AM
Ben-Former Democrat writes:
Great idea. He's got my vote over any amnesty pushing Democratic traitor of the American citizenry.
October 29, 2007
9:46 AM
truthy writes:
"Will the fight against illegal immigration suffer if he's out of the limelight?"
No. The people have taken up this issue. There is now inertia in this movement to bring fairness and security to our nation.
October 29, 2007
9:51 AM
Tom3 writes:
Tancretin should run away. Run for the border. Run for anything BUT office.
Tancretin is a fascist, racist SOB who deserves to be in prison with the rest of the Repukes.
The Repukes are torturers and traitors.
October 29, 2007
9:53 AM
gw writes:
Tancredo hasn't accomplished anything since he's been in the House. Good riddance.
October 29, 2007
9:54 AM
Anonymous writes:
and Tom3 is still a moron.
October 29, 2007
10:01 AM
Anonymous writes:
racism.... yawn.......
October 29, 2007
10:05 AM
Luke Sandoval writes:
Tancredo got away with murder under the excuse of national security
October 29, 2007
10:06 AM
Moneylady writes:
Congressman Tancredo is a friend to those of us who want to see America remain a world power economically, militarily, and constitutionally! Please, Tom, run for the Senate in 2010! Our country is at stake.
October 29, 2007
10:07 AM
Vote for Democrats writes:
I hope he runs and I hope the Republicans nominate him. It will be an easy win for the Democrats.
October 29, 2007
10:13 AM
Ben Former-Democrat writes:
Ken "one and done" Salazar. A true "American" traitor.
Tom Tancredo-2008 or 2010.
October 29, 2007
10:28 AM
Anonymous writes:
Its simply amazing to read you whack job lefties rants. Nothing but angry white males proving your liberalism is a mental disorder. Luckily for the rest of the nation your democratic party only panders to you nuts and doesnt vote along your lines
October 29, 2007
10:32 AM
Matt writes:
Tom did accomplish what he wanted to do. People are talking about illegal immigration (And the disintegration of America's borders that the Bush Administration represents) because of him. Thanks Tom, for getting the ball rolling on this issue, which has turned out to be an important topic to many people and the vast majority of which want the madness stopped. (Bad news for Salazar if he goes against Tancredo) Sorry you have to be called a racist and a moron by people on this blog, with no incidents to back the claims up. When lefties can't argue the merits of an issue, they resort to trying to cast the entire opposition as racists. Democrats hope idiots fall for that because then all they have to argue is RACISM!!! So either you're racists or you’re a Democrat. It's getting old but enough people believe it to put Democrats in power. Hey Dems, why not just say that you don't mind the anarchy and you want foreigners to have the right to break any law they want to because you don't give a rat's *ss about the US? Just be honest, says what you think and stop being afraid of what people as vicious as liberals would think of you, like Tom Tancredo.
October 29, 2007
10:32 AM
truthy writes:
Prove Mr. Tancredo is a racist.
Does anyone have quotes where he said something "racist".
Let's hear it.
October 29, 2007
10:32 AM
Davy Crockett writes:
JC- Have your voice heard... In
Mexico.
Maybe your the racist along with Ken Salazar and other socio-ethno brown groups.
¡VIVA TANCREDO!
¡Remember the Alamo!
October 29, 2007
10:40 AM
Ben's Border Street writes:
This is how I see it. Your either a traitor or a patriot on this issue.
October 29, 2007
10:45 AM
Anonymous writes:
How about a realist or an idiot?
October 29, 2007
10:46 AM
JW writes:
While you were busy worrying about Mexicans...
http://www.newsweek.com/id/57485/page/1
We have WAY bigger problems people.
October 29, 2007
10:56 AM
shaggy writes:
Whether you like him or him, Tancredo is the only one I know who isn't lying to us when he says he will close the border and secure our nation.
Hillary wants open borders to coddle the illegals and swing them into the Democratic party just like her unfaithful husband did.
The Democrats will sell out the good of the nation out of greed for power in a drop of a hat.
Why hasn't the Senator from New York denounced Gov. Eliot Spitzer of New York for wanting to give drivers licenses to illegals.
You can board an airline or buy a gun with a drivers license.
You don't hear a peep out of Hillary though. She might lose votes if she talks about enforcing our immigration laws.
Proof of putting her party ahead of the good of the Country.
The Democrats are the biggest problem in resolving the illegal crisis because they stand in the way of enforcing our immigration laws and keep writing up amnesty bills and wasting valuable time knowing they will get voted down.
They are also the biggest problem with getting poor kids health care because they don't compromise on anything and force the President to veto bills.
They like this cause then they can turn around and say Bush and the Republicans don't like children.
This is the kind of shit the Democrats are running their Candidacy on.
Now the loons will come out of the woodworks and call me names cause they know I am right. It isn't rocket science people.
Hillary even has gone as far to say any child born here should receive money for investing in the future and giving health services to illegals as well.
She ran with the money giving ploy until someone in her party told her that is exactly what Bush wanted to do and the Dems squealed like pigs over the idea that Bush actually wanted people to invest for themselves without the Government doing it for them.
So we don't here about that one from Billary anymore.
October 29, 2007
10:59 AM
JW writes:
"This is how I see it. Your either a traitor or a patriot on this issue."
Thats pretty much how Hitler saw things as well.
Our founding fathers on the other hand knew better, which is why treason is narrowly defined, and freedom of speech is constitutionally guaranteed.
October 29, 2007
11:03 AM
truthy writes:
Still waiting for that proof that Mr. Tancredo is a racist.
Any quotes?
Cross burning pictures?
Copies of membership cards to the KKK?
You, know just the normal stuff old white guys would have.
Remember to use quotes around multiple words on the search engines.
October 29, 2007
11:05 AM
truthy writes:
Still waiting for that proof that Mr. Tancredo is a racist.
Any quotes?
Cross burning pictures?
Copies of membership cards to the KKK?
You, know just the normal stuff old white guys would have.
Remember to use quotes around multiple words on the search engines.
October 29, 2007
11:06 AM
history buff writes:
Americans who want to secure the borders and take back our country from illegal immigration tend to be the same ones who don't want to pay the freight to do it. It will take money to keep illegals out and to get rid of the ones who are here. That requires higher taxes and a bigger federal presence.
The small government, no tax conservatives need to recognize that they can't wish this problem to go away. If you don't like a strong federal government and you don't want to pay for government programs, better get used to more of the same from south of the border.
This is how I see it. You are either a realist or a deadbeat on this issue.
October 29, 2007
11:30 AM
Kevin Jones writes:
"The small government, no tax conservatives need to recognize that they can't wish this problem to go away. If you don't like a strong federal government and you don't want to pay for government programs, better get used to more of the same from south of the border."
A severe immigration crackdown would reduce costs in other areas, like the prison system, health care, and education. I'm no budget junkie with all the figures at my fingertips, but I don't think your argument is that strong.
October 29, 2007
11:33 AM
shaggy writes:
Buff,
I would be willing to bet that if a Tax increase was presented to the people of the U.S. to vote on and it promised to close the border for good and start deporting the undesirables it would pass by a landslide.
The problem that would more than likely arise is that the Democrats would want to attach other tax hikes to it.
October 29, 2007
11:34 AM
Ben's Border Street writes:
history buff. Incorrect. Your attempting to cloud and obfuscate, to cultivate a defeatist attitude. That just don't add up.
Easy start.- No more legislation for amnesty. It's a waste of resources that needn't occur. End benefits and fraud. That will pay dividends.Simple. Quit being a traitor in a covert manner.
October 29, 2007
11:48 AM
J R writes:
Thank goodness!
Now if he should need any help packing to move out of Colorado, all he need do is call me!
October 29, 2007
11:50 AM
Ben Colder writes:
Hilarious!
These days, pretty much ANY Republican is a laughingstock.
Years of GOP corruption and failure have rendered them irrelevant.
October 29, 2007
12:01 PM
history buff writes:
Shaggy, at least as a business owner you know you can't get something for nothing. Ben and KJ suffer from the political delusion that has contributed to the problem. I have no idea what they do for a living, but I don't believe they have principal responsibility that involves hiring and firing, or looking at the monthly P&Ls, cash flow statements, or managing a budget.
Every case of deportation involving a resident requires an administrative hearing before an immigration judge. I've posted the figures here before. As I recall, the current system hears between 10K to 20K cases a year, only a fraction of what is needed, and the current system is already overloaded. Something like half of the appeals to the Ninth Circuit are immigration cases.
Saying we won't need as many prisons is unrealistic. We will need more prisons to hold violent illegal immigrants pending deportation to their country, or adjudicated illegals pending appeal.
It is easy to complain and evade any responsibility for the cost, so why don't you complainers stop being deadbeats and put your money where your mouths are.
October 29, 2007
12:03 PM
Anonymous writes:
I'd like to see him run - that would essentially guarantee that a Democrat occupies that seat.
October 29, 2007
12:10 PM
Ben writes:
hb,
Your argument is like saying since it is raining already there is no need to fix the holes in the roof. It is cost affective to fix the leaking roof so it doesn't ruin the rest of your possesions. It is that simple. I hope you are working no where near or with tax money, but apparently you are.
October 29, 2007
12:17 PM
shaggy writes:
Buff,
The mass deportations can come later, after the border is shut down and the Federal Government makes all the State Governments comply with reporting all illegals they come in contact with to ICE and the Violent offenders must be held to serve their prison sentences or immediately deported.
All Cops of every State should be required to find out the status of anyone they have contact with.
I have said before that a lot of this money can be coughed up by fining the businesses handsomely and used to finance the immigration clean-up.
October 29, 2007
12:22 PM
Ben -Former Democrat writes:
HB, To add
You never address the disincentives to illegal immigration as the obvious first step. Self deportation by attrition. It's relatively free and easy. It would save billions to the American citizen. You like to try and make the process difficult. Obsfucation. You aren't fooling anyone. We know the Democrats strategy is to kiss brown butt, legal or otherwise. Hence here you are in lockstep with policies that do not serve the USA but rather the short term ambitions of the Democratic party. Shame on you and the Democratic party.
October 29, 2007
12:22 PM
RickyLee writes:
Mexican-American resents footing the bill
Monday, October 22 at 12:01 AM
I am a person of Hispanic descent and I have to tell you that it makes me angry that the other persons of Hispanic descent are expecting us as taxpayers to foot the bill for the education of their children in a bilingual school.
That doubles the expense of educating children. Why is it up to us to interpret the English language for these folks? If the parents of the children would educate themselves prior to coming to our country, perhaps it wouldn’t be as expensive for the schools and maybe then more schools could remain open.
It’s wrong for immigrants who come to this country to expect us to foot the bill for their every need! So let’s not blame the school district for the problems; how about we look in the mirror!
We can’t allow this abuse of our good graces and our programs that were designed for the American people to continue.
I am Mexican myself, however my family came here legally and assimilated to the American way of life including speaking the language of the land — English. If immigrants really want to contribute to America, that would be a good place to start!
Anthony Garcia, Castle Rock
HEY c76, and Tom3, is THIS guy
(Anthony Garcia) a racist? Sounds
really similar to what Tancredo says, so, do you think Mr Garcia is racist as well?
Luke Sandoval drools;
"Tancredo got away with murder under the excuse of national security"
Well, Luke, what did Ted Kennedy get away with when he killed a young woman with his car? Please, inlighten us with your infinite wisdom.....
October 29, 2007
12:24 PM
history buff writes:
Ben LOL. What kind of hair brained analogy is that?
If someone lives in your rental and they don't pay the rent, you need to bring an eviction proceeding against them. You must file your papers with the court and get an order for possession. All of which costs money.
The other part of the problem is that currently there are not enough attorneys to bring the actions, not enough courts to issue the orders, and not enough sheriffs to execute the orders.
If wishes were horses, dreamers would ride.
October 29, 2007
12:25 PM
RR writes:
Hang out your underwear to dry, and chill...Tan crazo es gon zo!! Ha ha
As for us Mexican we ain't goin nowhere. I say let's start those mass deportations with your European red neck, COWBOY!!
October 29, 2007
12:26 PM
JW writes:
Shaggy, you crack me up.
"The mass deportations can come later, after the border is shut down "
The so-called "Shamnesty" bill you were all up in arms about provided another $7 billion to do exactly that.
"and the Federal Government makes all the State Governments comply with reporting all illegals they come in contact with to ICE and the Violent offenders must be held to serve their prison sentences or immediately deported."
The "Shamnesty" bill ALSO required this. The part you disliked, that the non-violent offenders could get work visas, also would have made us money, as it would have put these people in the tax pool AND charged them a fine to get the work visa.
Basically, the "Shamnesty" bill you hated so much provided several of the things you want.
October 29, 2007
12:27 PM
Anonymous writes:
Still waiting for the evidence of his "racism"...
October 29, 2007
12:33 PM
pr writes:
Mr. Tancredo has only served to inflict fear, hate and division in our communities. He has no real intention of solving our broken immigration system, he would rather it remain broken so that he has an issue to run on. Unlike Mr. Tancredo, the majority of Coloradans are hospitable and empathetic people, with a shared responsibility to treat all neighbors with respect and decency, and who remember, honor, value and embrace the immigrant values of family, faith, and hard work. Let us hope that Tancredo's replacement will be more in touch with these values.
October 29, 2007
12:41 PM
Ben -Former Democrat writes:
The costs don't justify anything in regards to illegal immigration, number wise or in regards to longitudinal ramifications. We need a moratorium on all/most immigration. Our liberal immmigration policies are not contemporary with that of other countries. We need to maintain our "house".
The end game is the disolution of the the USA, and I kinda like the place. I don't believe a word any/most liberals says on immigration. They never have legitimate reason or numbers to validate their ideology.
pr, Nobody believes that smear anymore. How respectful is it to have 50,000 illegal aliens in Colorado's Larimer Square flying the Mexican flag in front of the state capital demanding priviledges meant for immigrants and American citizens? ZERO tolerance is all we can afford at this point, appeasment will kill this country.
October 29, 2007
12:46 PM
American Citizen writes:
Tom Tancredo- Thank you. You have shown time and again that you understand and are in touch with the concerns of the average Coloradoan and American citizen.
If only other so-called representatives were as well.
October 29, 2007
12:49 PM
shaggy writes:
BTW,
This is for all of you.
I found something out for everyone. I purchased a new computer last week instead of building my own. Well it has Windows vista on it and it wouldn't open up many web pages using I.E. So I switched to Fire Fox as my browser and low and behold it has a spell checker built in that will check your spelling in the little box where you post.
http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/
I know many of you use word or just type and spell well ,but this is pretty handy, at least for people like me who tend to type poorly or misspell a lot when in a hurry.
It doesn't give you the correct spelling but lets you know when you have mistyped.
We have all done it so don't tase me bros:)
JW,
No it did not include mass deportations, it provided amnesty and to pay a fine.
The money you say that was allocated for this and to build the fence was to come from the PRESUMPTION that the illegals were actually going to pay a fine.
October 29, 2007
12:56 PM
Ben writes:
Hb,
Plain common sense just doesn't cut it with you eh. You think the laws aren't already in place? You would have us believe that the richest nation in the world can't afford to enforce it's laws or control it's boundaries or immigration laws and policies? You don't think anyone really believes that do you?
Again it isn't a convoluted situation, as much as you would like to cloud it as one.
October 29, 2007
1:19 PM
JW writes:
"JW,
No it did not include mass deportations, it provided amnesty and to pay a fine.
The money you say that was allocated for this and to build the fence was to come from the PRESUMPTION that the illegals were actually going to pay a fine."
Critical thinking Shaggy...you do need it.
I never said it provided for MASS deportations. I said it provided for deporting violent offenders, something you asked for. It also provided for getting ALL illegals in contact with ICE, something else you want.
I didnt talk about it, but it also provided for increased fines on businesses that hired illegals.
And no, the funding for the $7 billion to close the border was not tied to collecting fines from illegals who wanted a work permit. The funding was guaranteed by the bill.
Anyway, the point was that the "Shamnesty" bill provided for most of the things many of you want, yet you cried "foul" over it because it wasnt EVERYTHING you want (it wouldnt have provided for mass deportations, which despite what you think, would have cost too much).
And one last thing;
Its not "Amnesty" if there are fines involved. I know you guys like to call it that, but that is becasue either you dont know the definition of Amnesty, or willfully misuse the word.
And yea, I know about the firefox thing (have been using Mozilla browsers for a few years now), but many of us have no option but IE at work. Sux.
October 29, 2007
1:21 PM
truthy writes:
Still waitin' for that proof of racism on Mr. Tancredo's part. Anybody?
October 29, 2007
1:34 PM
Anonymous writes:
Truthy, you apparently don't understand the liberal mantra of calling racist, anything that does not agree with their agenda. So typical of the party of hate.
October 29, 2007
1:36 PM
Here you go writes:
http://tancredowatch.blogspot.com/2006/11/tancredo-racism-bombshell.html
October 29, 2007
1:45 PM
Michael writes:
Here is my proposal for addressing illegal immigration. Along with aggressive enforcement of ALL current laws on the books I believe that this would have a huge impact almost immediately.
1. ALL current illegal aliens in the USA have to return to their country of origin immediately.
2. Upon returning they must apply for some type of work or temp visa to return to the USA for 180 days.
3. A complete and thorough background, criminal, financial and medical history check will be required to accompany this visa.
4. A sponsor of some type in the USA must vouch for the character and/or employment of the applicant upon being allowed to enter the US. (sort of like a co-signer on a loan). If the applicant screws up - the sponsor is held liable in some manner.
5. If the applicant is indeed returning to the US after having been here illegally, a $10,000.00 fine must be paid prior and in full before the applicant is allowed to return.
6. Any/all applicants who are approved for this type of visa will not be allowed to apply for US citizenship for a minumum of 2 years without any criminal or other behavior deemed unacceptable for an applicant to be a US citizen.
7. If the applicant had indeed lived illegally in the US prior to this new application process, US citizenship shall be denied for 5 years.
8. Fluency in American English (both written and spoken) must be achieved within 18 months of arriving in the USA.
9. A 5% tax on all monies wired to any home country from the USA will be applied to help cover administration costs of this program.
10. No relatives or family of the applicant will be allowed to join the applicant for at least 18 months after arrival and the applicant has proven fluency and an ability to remain employed and out of criminal activity.
11. All criminal illegal aliens shall be deported immediately to their country of origin for incarceration there. If they are found again in the US, their home country will be held directly responsible for any/all criminal acts and financial liability of the criminal illegal aliens actions in the USA as well as all future incarceration costs in the USA.
October 29, 2007
1:48 PM
Anonymous writes:
http://tancredowatch.blogspot.com/2006/11/tancredo-racism-bombshell.html
October 29, 2007
1:53 PM
Geof writes:
Evidence of Tancredo's racism was exhibited by his attending an opening of the "National Museum of Confederate History" and singing Dixie. Let it be known that the old South would not have existed without slavery, and so the Confederate flag represents first and foremost the romanticizing of that dead culture, conveniently overlooking it's hideous roots. Granted it's a bit of a reach to label Tancredo a racist based just on this single association, but I personally believe he rides the immigration issue for it's divisiveness, knowing the attention it will bring him. He is rabidly politicizing racism and bigotry, which to point out (to the morally lapse in the crowd) is a great sin, and it's the only thing he has to say that even remotely distinguishes him from the other socially sterilized GOPSOB's.
As for him quitting - YEEEEE-HA!!! (emphasis on the yee AND the ha).
And if he runs for Senate against Salazar in 2010, I am signed up to oppose him as mortal enemy #30,000.
Mad George and Crazy Cheney
Moseyed down an old street
Dragging a Bible at their feet
Guns a-blazin', ethics a-lazin'
As the Earth melted under the heat
(best recited with a Texass drawl)
October 29, 2007
2:07 PM
truthy writes:
http://tancredowatch.blogspot.com/2006/11/tancredo-racism-"bombshell.html"
This is your proof? Some forgotten leftist blog with bad links to the "extensive documentation"?
Is that the best you and Mr. "National Museum of Confederate History" can muster?...Please.
Now try finding something real. You know, like the grown-ups do.
October 29, 2007
2:24 PM
benn writes:
Yea, that's a joke Michael.
October 29, 2007
2:28 PM
shaggy writes:
"And no, the funding for the $7 billion to close the border was not tied to collecting fines from illegals who wanted a work permit. The funding was guaranteed by the bill"--JW
"trying to start the bill moving again in the Senate, Mr. Bush called for an immediate burst of $4.4 billion in spending to show that the government was committed to “securing this border once and for all.”"
"Mr. Bush said the $4.4 billion would “come from the fines and penalties that we collect from those who have come to our country illegally” and apply for legal status"
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/15/washington/15immig.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
You know what JW? I followed this fairly closely and have an idea what I am talking about and can back it up so you might want to research your thoughts so a chump like me with no education and no critical thinking makes you look like an idiot in front of all your cronies.
October 29, 2007
2:38 PM
jay writes:
shaggy and co...every time you try to rationalize your minority viewpoint on this issue you do nothing but hurt your credibility here...and attacking the folks who DO have educations and are well-informed enough to recognize your ridiculous arguments for the drivel they are...like JW and HB...just makes you look even dumber.
October 29, 2007
2:54 PM
Stonewall Jackson writes:
Geof, , Don't be so narrowminded or discriminatory. The Confederate battle flag means a diversity of things to a diverse amount of people. Tancredo gained my respect by going to historical groups that many have smeared.
His attendance there was just like a Democrat pandering to other socia-ethnic interest groups.
So when Hilly or Barack talk to NAACP or Council of La Raza we should consider them racist too? Under your assumed definitions these would be racist organizations.
October 29, 2007
2:56 PM
shaggy writes:
For fucks sake jay I just posted exactly what Bush said and debunked what JW said so I have no idea wtf you are talking about. Can you follow along??
You are the stupid ass numb nuts. Sheez
Bush was going to fund it from fines nimplehead.
October 29, 2007
2:56 PM
truthy writes:
Jay,
I have a college degree. But it is only in electronics, not any of the professional bullshit degrees like political science and ethnic studies.
I am proud of a degree where I had to use math and real science, not a degree based on feelings.
No you may proceed to blab about how smart you think you are. Go ahead. It's funny.
October 29, 2007
2:56 PM
Anonymous writes:
" Evidence of Tancredo's racism was exhibited by his attending an opening of the "National Museum of Confederate History" and singing Dixie"
That’s why Tom Tancredo is a racist? Because you don't like people running a Confederate Museum? SO they're automatically racist? This illustrates the problem with the left. They put people in these categories, some generally vote liberal, like NAMBLA, and some don't, like the typical person who would work at a confederate museum. One group is automatically opposed and branded a racist organization, and the other is said to be just looking for love. Liberalism = depravity.
October 29, 2007
3:15 PM
shaggy writes:
No shit Truthy,
jay and Jw keep posting how intelligent they are and how unintelligent others are when we back them into a corner and debunk what they say with facts as I have and do many times. That is why I am at the center of their smears.
They hate the fact I didn't go to college and make more than them. They think in order to have a brain one must go to college and despise anyone smart enough to make a good living with out a degree.
JW works for the man and I am the man.
jay is a job recruiter so he wants illegals here to improve his personal business.
See how easy the Democrats will sell out their Country for their own satisfaction?
Did you notice jay didn't say where I was wrong, just that I am dumb.
He can't, it is a fact, so he resorts to calling people stupid just like JW does.
October 29, 2007
3:27 PM
JW writes:
Shaggy,
Ill give you props for FINALLY doing some "research" (though as I have pointed out to Hogar so many times, "Research" does not involve looking for support for your pre-concieved ideas).
However, Ill say again that some critical thinking classes would still help you.
"The President hammered that point home Thursday morning during a speech to the Associated Builders and Contractors at the Washington Hilton. "For decades, we have not been in complete control of the border," he said. "If you're worried about border security, you ought to be supporting this bill." He then announced his support of an amendment to the main legislation put forth by Sen. Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican, and Sen. John Kyl, the Arizona Republican who has been the G.O.P's point man on the issue.
The measure would immediately appropriate $4.4 billion toward border security and law enforcement, specifically surveillance towers, detention beds, and new fencing (though, as Bush took care to remind, "you can't fence the whole border").
White House Press Secretary Tony Snow said that the $4.4 billion would be paid back to the government through the fines and penalties levied on former illegal immigrants applying for a Z-visa, the first step in the process of obtaining legal residency. Snow characterized the funding as "a direct deposit right now on border security, a surge toward the border of people and technology."
From http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1633262,00.html?xid=feed-cnn-topics
So. Funding. Guaranteed. "The measure would immediately appropriate $4.4 billion"
JUST LIKE I SAID. (Though they are just talking about the additional $4.4 billon they added on to keep the bill in play, not the total...which would have been $7 billion).
It appears you are correct about how they wanted to RECOUP the money.
Anyway, nitpicking. Your bitching about where the money was supposed to be recouped (and possibly confused as to whether they had to actually get those fines paid before the money was spent on border security), Im pointing out the funding was there regardless.
But...the critical thinking class would help you figure this out...rather than claiming that you "Debunked" me.
As for your rant about $$$. I dont know if you make more than me or not. I do know youre about 10 years older than I am. Lets check back in another 10. Dont you renovate crack houses?
Bottom line, learning to run a business does take some intelligence. Kudos.
Bottom line, youre still A) a liar and B) stupid as dirt where government policy is concerned. You STILL vote for the most powerful position in the world based on who would be the best prom queen, and I dont care how successful your crack house renovations are going, you just cant spin that into "Im smart".
Yo! Truthy! Even if you have an electronics degree you should have gotten SOMETHING out of GE.
October 29, 2007
3:43 PM
history buff writes:
"Mr. Bush said the $4.4 billion would “come from the fines and penalties that we collect from those who have come to our country illegally” and apply for legal status"
Oh yea, sure. And the Iraq war will be paid for by Iraq's oil production. All it takes is an illusory argument and the deadbeats who want to complain but don't want to pay the freight think they have found a fiscally sound solution. When are you going to wake up and realize that small government can't solve big government problems?
The laws are in place but paying people to execute the laws are not in place. Do you propose we hire people at minimum wage to do this work? The only people who would apply would be illegals.
October 29, 2007
4:06 PM
Geof writes:
Actually, Liberalism = gives a crap about some sort of truth
Conservatism = There's living things that need to be dead
Clear now?
So, JoeBob Anon, you're not labeling Liberals?
Normally Republicans just hide behind bullets and Bibles, but occassionally the shredded remains of the Constitution will do.
Not anonymous Geof
Go Hills.
October 29, 2007
4:17 PM
Hogar De Vuelta (العودة) writes:
Here you Go,
Your link listed FAIR as a racist organization. Here are their objectives from their web site. I do not see a racist point anywhere.
FAIR’s policy advocacy and public education work are guided by the following beliefs:
• that our immigration laws must be fairly and effectively enforced; there should be no favoritism toward or discrimination against any person on the basis of race, color, or national origin;
• that three criteria should guide selection of immigrants: (1) our fair share of refugees, with ultimate resettlement a key part of the program, (2) our national manpower policy, and (3) concerns for reunification of nuclear families;
• that the United States should not contribute to a brain drain that entices away the skilled and talented who are desperately needed in their homelands; we should meet our need for skilled professionals by training and retraining our own;
• that the United States should make greater efforts to encourage population stabilization, economic development, and alleviation of poverty worldwide and especially in countries of great migration;
• that the era of mass international migration as a solution to national problems has come to an end; problems of poverty and overpopulation must be vigorously confronted where people live, rather than postponing their solution by either the exportation or the importation of masses of people; and
• that determining its own immigration and population policy is the sovereign right and responsibility of every nation.
According to FAIR, the organization has 70,000 members, some of whom are liberals and others conservatives. FAIR boasts that it has testified before Congress more than any other American organization.
October 29, 2007
4:19 PM
Geof writes:
Mr. Jackson, how astoundingly compliant you are to ignorance. As I said, the old South and therefore the Confederate flag would not exist without slavery - there is no escape from that. So, Stonewall, as much as you would like to dream that you can project your own fairy tale upon the blood-drenched cloth you honor (apparently over the American flag), first and foremost it represents slavery. Or would you rather look away, look away...
Fight the Republicans here
So we don't have to fight terrorists everywhere
October 29, 2007
4:21 PM
royhobbs writes:
As a fourth generation Coloradan, I think Mr. Tancredo should be deported. He is clearly an undesirable alien. Seriously, it is so embarrassing to see a man who grew up in Denver so full of hate---even worse, his supporters
are such mean, nasty, horrible people; the good news is that most Americans are not buying their act or their hatred. We are a great country (Immigants built it!). To every man and woman willing to work and give back, we welcome you. The rest of the civilized world hates us because they see Bush, Cheney, Tancredo as the American face. In 2006 and (Lord willing) again in 2008, our votes will change this. I'm counting the days until we are Bush/Tancredo free.
October 29, 2007
4:40 PM
Stonewall Jackson writes:
Geof,
Intolerant of certain groups of people celebrating their cultural heritage are you? That's called discrimination and bigotry. Why are you stereotyping an American heritage group?
The Civil War was about state rights firstly and their ability govern themselves.
You are ignorant and a liar sir. I would direct you to educate yourself on southern history and heritage before you speak. Blacks were members of the Confederacy. The Democratic party was the father of the KKK of which you make false comparisons in present day Confederate heritage groups.
BTW- The flag to which you refer is not the Confederate national flag, it is the Confederate battle flag. Damn, it sure is beautiful.
Roy, Yes immigrants built the US. Guess what? We're done built and have been for a long time. You are a disgrace to this country, and you may want to look around. People are tired of illegal aliens and their disrespect, and enablers like you.
October 29, 2007
5:00 PM
Ben writes:
roy hobbs,
Tancredo and his supporters aren't about hate, their about love, love of the USA, love of our culture and concern for our children and their future. They are also about fairness and the rule of law. Anything to the contrary is pure garbage, and any thinking person could easily make this distinction.
It appears to me all the hate is coming from those who wish the truth on illegal immigration not see the light of day.
October 29, 2007
5:06 PM
Ben- Former Democrat writes:
Do you believe states giving away drivers' licenses to illegal aliens is simply an attempt to expedite massive voter fraud?
Yes 96% 6944
No 4% 321
Total Votes: 7265
"Lou Dobbs Voters will Decide 08"
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1007/6478.html
October 29, 2007
5:14 PM
Anonymous writes:
neoConservatism is a mental disorder.
October 29, 2007
5:29 PM
Anonymous writes:
I agree if it involves giving amnesty to illegal aliens.
October 29, 2007
7:45 PM
shaggy writes:
"Ill give you props for FINALLY doing some "research" "---JW
No research was needed, I knew how Bush was planning on financing it about 4-5 months ago. Did you???
You are the one who didn't think the illegals were going to pay for it with fines.
**Note how I didn't call you a liar**
"And no, the funding for the $7 billion to close the border was not tied to collecting fines from illegals who wanted a work permit. The funding was guaranteed by the bill"--JW
Of course it was going to be guaranteed.
But I would like to ask you if you know how much of this so called guaranteed 4 Billion has been spent on the fence like he promised.
Serious, not a trick Q. I don't know.
Is it still available beings ALL the proposals have gotten shot down or
did Twig just pull the plug because he didn't get his and Teddys way??( talk about opposite attractions:) )
How much of this fence has been built since this money has been available??
BTW JW, I do not renovate crack houses.
I could if I wanted to and you are red hot.
1 maybe 2 more guesses and I think you will have it and I'll let you know. I love what I do.
According to your calculations you are 32.
I hope to retire in 10 yrs but if the Dems get control for 2 terms I will probably end up working until I'm, I'm, I'm.... probably until I drop dead working to support the increased taxes and supporting everyone else that wants a free ride..
Damn I like this new browser for spelling, its kinda like taking a thinking class of some sort:)
October 29, 2007
7:59 PM
Anonymous writes:
Yes!! Tancredo should run for the Senate..we need him. He's not going to give up on us..the American Citizen. He;ll continue the fight to save our country.
October 29, 2007
8:09 PM
shaggy writes:
J.W.
I'll even give you the two guesses.
1.) I'm in the construction biz?????
or
2.) I specialize in all the finest flooring products including Granite, Ceramic, All Tile, All The latest Carpets, Pre finished Hardwood,....ect..... Professional Installations and all my Installers are here Legally and speak English and many times I find it difficult to place winning bids against other Companies doing it the sleazy way.
Now you know my beef!!!!!!!
October 29, 2007
8:26 PM
Fedup writes:
I am from Tennessee and I really wish we had a Tom Tancredo representing us in the Senate. Mr. Tancredo represents alot of the values that I would like to see in the White House. He has the nerve to speak up when needed especially about illegal immigration. I really have alot of respect for him and I hope he runs for another term if not elected President.
October 29, 2007
9:37 PM
Anonymous writes:
Tom can run Bob Beuprez's campaign .
I can see the ads with 2 horses
asses instead of one
LOL
October 30, 2007
7:32 AM
Tom Tancredo writes:
Oh I wish I was in Dixie, Away, Away. In Dixieland where I was born....
October 30, 2007
9:39 AM
Hogar De Vuelts العودة writes:
Here is what I want to hear from a candidate.
What I want to hear from a candidate
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: October 30, 2007
1:00 a.m. Eastern
None of the GOP presidential candidates is "breaking out."
In fact, the race is actually becoming more crowded as Mike Huckabee joins the top tier of Fred Thompson, Rudy Giuliani, Mitt Romney and John McCain.
But I'll let you in on a little secret.
I know how one of these candidates – or maybe even one of those not in the top tier – could distinguish himself sufficiently from the pack to energize the Republican base.
And, guess what? It won't cost them a dime – not for the advice I am about to impart and not to put the winning program into place.
You see, I still believe it's about ideas.
I think Ronald Reagan's campaigns, essentially, were about ideas. He was a slick package, no question about it. He was the whole enchilada. But, without the ideas, Ronald Reagan would have looked like an empty suit up there on the stage.
(Column continues below)
So what are these big ideas?
My campaign stump speech would incorporate the following:
The day I take office, I will declare a national day of prayer and fasting for the future of our country. We live in dangerous times – with challenges at home and abroad. I want to ensure that we make every effort to beseech the God of the universe to bestow his blessings and favor upon us. This would be in the great tradition of other early American presidents who recognized we must humble ourselves before the Almighty. And, you know what? I would mean it.
On my second day in office, while breaking my fast that morning, I would begin implementing my bully-pulpit plan to dismantle the Internal Revenue Service and eliminate the income tax forevermore. How do you think that would play in Peoria?
On my third day in office, I would not just begin my fight against all unconstitutional efforts to restrict firearms in America, I would urge Americans to arm themselves – because it's the right thing to do. There would be no better anti-crime program, no better anti-terrorist program and anti-tyranny program, than a heavily armed civilian population.
I'd explain that on my fourth day in office, I would make sure the executive branch of government was doing everything in its power to erect the border fence. I would explain that there would be no discussion by the White House about any amnesty plans or guest worker programs until the border fence was complete and Americans had confidence that we knew who was entering our country.
On the fifth day, we'd begin exploring all the ways we would begin enforcing our immigration laws inside our borders – with employer sanctions and attacking sanctuary cities and challenging court rulings on anchor babies and taking the fight to illegal alien gangs like MS-13.
On the sixth day, I'd talk directly to the American people, explaining how they'd been lied to, deceived into believing government was their friend. I'd tell them their hope is in God as well as freedom, self-reliance and personal responsibility.
On the seventh day, I would rest.
On the eighth day, I'd begin my assault on all wealth redistribution programs of the federal government. I might not be able to eliminate them all – but I'd give it my best shot.
On the ninth day, I'd ask Ruth Bader Ginsburg to retire from her seat on the Supreme Court so I could nominate a strict constructionist justice who would vote to overturn Roe v. Wade, that illegitimate piece of judicial activist legislation.
October 30, 2007
9:52 AM
just sayin' writes:
Thank God someone like Hogar will never be elected. What was that a guide on how to destroy the country in 8 days?
October 30, 2007
10:01 AM
am 760 writes:
http://www.airamerica.com/node/5696
October 30, 2007
10:08 AM
history buff writes:
Hogar. LOL. I like how you plan to complete your program without revenue. What are you going to do? Take two loaves and five fishes to feed the minions, then change the Rio Grand into wine? That is exactly my point in this thread. You can't send out a small government to do a big government's job.
Actually, the post reminds me of a joke. When Freud died he was met by Saint Peter at the Pearly Gates. (Don't ask me why a Christian saint would greet a Jewish psychiatrist. That is how the joke was told to me.) Peter tells Freud, "We are glad your here. We want you to analyze God. He's been acting like a federal judge." (It may have told better when I heard it.)
October 30, 2007
10:21 AM
JW writes:
"No research was needed, I knew how Bush was planning on financing it about 4-5 months ago. Did you???
You are the one who didn't think the illegals were going to pay for it with fines.
**Note how I didn't call you a liar**"
No, before yesterday I didnt. But I have to ask, whats the problem with the way Bush said it would be funded? Didnt you say you'd be happy to pay a tax to get this done? Wouldnt it be better if it ended up being paid for by people who forked over the money in fines so they could gain a work visa? And if that didnt happen, we could always do the tax you said would be fine with you.
SO again, Im unclear on why you hated the "Shamnesty" bill when it would have provided for most of the things you wanted.
Really though, I think youre just so emotional about this subject, short of mass deportation and lazers on the border, it wouldnt matter WHAT anyone said. You wouldnt know good immigration and border security legislation if I beat you over the head with it, because you arent THINKING about it. Youre EMOTING about it.
And Shaggy, I dont call you a liar if you make a mistake like this (me saying congrats you did research, you correcting me because *sigh* as usual you did NO research, but happend to know for once). I call you a liar for LYING. Which youve done.
"Of course it was going to be guaranteed."
Well then Im unclear as to why we are having an argument about this, or why you said you "debunked" anyting I said, when it appears we both think the same thing.
"But I would like to ask you if you know how much of this so called guaranteed 4 Billion has been spent on the fence like he promised."
As the bill wasnt even voted on (Killed, by Repubs) Id have to say $0.
"Is it still available beings ALL the proposals have gotten shot down or
did Twig just pull the plug because he didn't get his and Teddys way??( talk about opposite attractions:) )
How much of this fence has been built since this money has been available??"
Im not clear on where the money is coming from (think I remember some funding for the border fence being thrown into a Homeland Security finance bill) but I have this vague memory of reading something lately about how they are testing the "Virtual Fence" currently. Not sure though.
"BTW JW, I do not renovate crack houses."
Thought I remembered you talking about dealing with syringes and junkie stuff in some of your renovations.
"I could if I wanted to and you are red hot.
1 maybe 2 more guesses and I think you will have it and I'll let you know. I love what I do."
Great. Always the secret to a happy life.
"According to your calculations you are 32."
33
"I hope to retire in 10 yrs but if the Dems get control for 2 terms I will probably end up working until I'm, I'm, I'm.... probably until I drop dead working to support the increased taxes and supporting everyone else that wants a free ride.."
You know what? Why dont you go compare the tax tables from 96 (or anytime during Clinton that you chose) VS. the tax tables for Bush's administration. You'll find the difference is NOT large. Nowhere near large enough to make a difference on when you retire. Of course, this would actually be research, and the results might not jive with your emotionally based beliefs that "dems are taxes".
And one other thing, sounds like your busiess RELIES on other people having money, so they can renovate, or put in new floors, or whatever. Seems to me, during the Clinton years, the economy was strong, and the middle class grew. That seems PERFECT for YOU. This economy, eh, its ok...and loans have been cheap, but we are about to hit a credit crunch and Im thinking your bills may get harder to pay.
"Damn I like this new browser for spelling, its kinda like taking a thinking class of some sort:)"
Yes, firefox has rocked since it came out.
October 30, 2007
10:35 AM
history buff writes:
I'm still puzzled why the right wingers want to deny rape victims the liberty to end an unwanted pregnancy. It must be part of their blame the victim mentality.
October 30, 2007
10:47 AM
Geof writes:
Slavery, Stonewall - without it the thing you cherish would not have existed.
How pretarded (indicates embraced ignorance) is it for conservatives to persist in saying that someone is trying to stop them from free speech - exactly when did I say that, and exactly how would I enforce it? Stoner, you're particularly persistent at projecting your imaginings into the words of others, which meams you're esssentially having a conversation with yourself. Republicans (you, Stoner) have nothing left, so all they can do is try to blame someone else for this fact. No, not trying to stop you, Stoner, but I will always be here to call you out for your pathetic logic and vaporous morals.
A coward believes the blood of others will do
What his words cannot
October 30, 2007
10:53 AM
am 760 writes:
Typical Hog, "Bless this country, now get the hell out because you don't believe like me, your the wrong color, your gay/lesbian, your democrat/liberal, you believe government can actually be a good thing, you kill babies, blah, blah, blah.
Good compassionate christian conservative values for you, well done hog!
October 30, 2007
10:54 AM
Anonymous writes:
Geof - You are a moron. Go hate elsewhere.
October 30, 2007
11:16 AM
history buff writes:
Geof, I am a blue bellied Yankee, but my grandmother was a confederate and in kindergarten I argued with the teacher over who won the Civil War. The principal called our house and told my mother to tell me that I was wrong about who won. I agree that labeling everything confederate as racist is way over-simplistic. In the North, during the Civil War, many people complained about Mr. Lincoln's war to free the black man, in less eloquent terms.
If you are going to fault anything, you should fault the confederate mentality of engaging in questionable wars. Not only the Civil War, but the Viet Nam War and the Iraq War. Johnson and Bush both have the confederate hubris that leads to mistakes costing many lives without achieving the objective.
I was also wondering if Stonewall Jackson still uses Chancellorsville as his address.
October 30, 2007
12:04 PM
Hogar De Vuelta (العودة) writes:
am760,
All I want is for this country to once again actually control who gets in. People are free to believe and say whatever they want. People are free to do whatever is allowed by the law. People are free to vote for people who will pass and enforce the laws that they want to see passed and enforced.
Just Sayin,
Just exercising my right to free speech. Mike Huckabee is the closest to what I want in office. By no means perfect, but I an willing to see what he can do. That's the beauty of America, Ron Paul can run for President and Hogar gets to say whatever he wants.
HB,
Fortunately God does not act like a Federal Judge, and you can thank God for that. And I don't think you could have dragged Freud into Heaven.
October 30, 2007
12:22 PM
Observer writes:
Geof,
We really can do without your left wing hate, intolerance and attempts to stifle discourse because it doesn't fit your radical left wing agenda.
October 30, 2007
12:27 PM
RickyLee writes:
royhobbes says:
"We are a great country (Immigants built it!)."
Thet's exactly right, immigrants.
Not ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, who crowd our emergency rooms for free medical care, and overburden our classrooms with non-English speaking children.
I like Austria's example: to immigrate there one must complete
THREE HUNDRED hours of German instruction. Not here though, the bleeding-heart, "we can save the whole world" cry-babies would never stand for immigrants being required to have a grasp on English.
October 30, 2007
12:49 PM
Anonymous writes:
I’m sure the people in this district will be glad to be represented by somebody other than a megalomaniac Republican. I wouldn’t vote for a Republican dog catcher since they would probably torture pets for the fun of it. The GOP went from being fiscal conservative to all out fascists under the no accountability Bush years. It is pretty sad when Republicans have to write laws pardoning Republicans for what they know is unconstitutional and WRONG!!!
October 30, 2007
12:55 PM
Anonymous writes:
So how is it the Democrats fault that the GOP did nothing about immigration for six years with total control? I think the GOP big money is hiring illegal immigrants and they keep the borders open to fill their pockets and they give lip service to idiots like Ben who blindly vote GOP and never bother to get to the truth.
October 30, 2007
12:58 PM
truthy writes:
Geof,
How do you feel about election fraud?
October 30, 2007
1:15 PM
history buff writes:
Truth, I don't know how Geof feels about it, but if it wasn't for the fraud in the Florida election and the complicity of the Repubs on the Supreme Court who elected Bush against the will of the people, we wouldn't have such a messed up mess of a mess right now.
October 30, 2007
1:17 PM
truthy writes:
HB,
I was asking Geof, but thanks for your input.
October 30, 2007
1:29 PM
Anonymous writes:
Guys, Geof's recess period is over and he had to rejoin his kindergarten class. Maybe he'll be able to post tonight after "Arthur" on PBS.
October 30, 2007
1:43 PM
Uncommon Sense writes:
Ricky Lee-
It is a myth that Hispanic immigrants (legal or otherwise) are learning English at a slower rate than previous generations of immigrants. We often hear the “My grandmother/grandfather came from [pick your European country] and learned English right away. But today’s immigrants don’t want to bother to learn the language” line, but the facts show that both parts of that statement are a myth.
“Conclusion
The language assimilation patterns of today are not precisely those of the early 20th century, but they do not appear to pose any threat to English as the language that cements the nation and its culture.
The high migration level of the 1990s did not affect the fundamental shift towards English across the generations. Moreover, many of the main exceptions to the basic pattern are found in border communities where bilingualism is a historically rooted phenomenon, not one that has arisen from recent immigration.”
http://www.migrationinformation.org/Feature/display.cfm?id=282
Your point about school children of immigrants (legal and illegal) being a financial and resource burden is true. But it isn’t because they are doing anything different than previous generations of immigrants, it is because there are more of them.
October 30, 2007
1:50 PM
Anonymous writes:
But I have to ask, whats the problem with the way Bush said it would be funded?--JW
Nothing, In fact I think it would be a good way and I have stated that before, I also have stated companies hiring Illegals should be fined handsomely and those moneys should be also used for deportations and a fence and maybe even fund a huge tent city in Arizona or New Mexico just for detaining Illegals awaiting jail or deportation. I was just correcting you when you said it would not be funded by fines but we have covered that three times now and we are in agreement. No need to elaborate more on this..........
Now that you mentioned needles I do remember when the talking point was about gays and them being clean and I countered that when we have done jobs in downtown Denver near the Capital Hill area and that we have ran into needles buried in the floor. In fact I could tell you some other freaky things we have encountered but will hold off as to not gross everyone out. They are not clean people. That does not mean to say I think all gays are dirty, just to clarify.
But I consider us to be more on the decoration side rather then the renovation side.
We don't buy and flip and we do not contract out as a general Sub.
"sounds like your business RELIES on other people having money"--JW
Don't most, if not all, businesses rely on other people or other businesses to spend money? Isn't that what makes for a strong economy? Am I missing something?
In return they make money after our services or their investment to better themselves, whether it be to open an office or just for a quick sell or just to rent it out. New floors sell houses and rent apartments, No Q about it.
They use our services to better their services, I don't need to explain economics to you though right?
“I think youre just so emotional about this subject”—JW
You are right I tend to get a little emotional when the deck is stacked and I'm on the losing end when it comes to bidding most jobs, you would be too.
Illegal immigration affects many areas in our economy and the only people benefiting from the Illegals pimping themselves out for less money is the people who use their services, right??
It hurts people and businesses who don't sink to that level and try to do it the Legal way.
Nothing short of complete closure of the border and a very strict bill that puts all the Illegals here to the back of the line and wait, a heavy fine and learn English will I ever be happy.
I want to make it CLEAR that I am not opposed to deporting every single one of them but I am smart enough to know this just flat out won't happen so I want the next best thing and that would be to have a very strict immigration policy and have the Federal Government implement it to every State and City in the Country with strong sanctions to the ones who don't enforce it. No Mayor or Governor is going to make up their own laws according to their personal politics. Any person that the cops pull over and can’t cough up legal documentation needs to be held until verification can be made.
Yes this will even make the criminals here legally to consider following the law that states everyone has to carry an I.D. or Drivers Lisence.
Any Illegal here that has committed a crime more serious than a traffic ticket needs to be locked up or deported immediately.
No health coverage for Illegals like Hillary has been proposing or for the ones just entering our system, also no S.S.
Get rid of the anchor baby law.
No money for babies being born here like Hillary has suggested.
These just encourage more Illegals to come.
BTW, JW, Most of my installers are from Mexico, They all have learned English and they are all here legally.
I am NOT prejudiced about a Race but rather an action, being here illegal and pimping them selves out for less money thus effecting, in a negative way, the natural way our economy is suppose to work.
Illegals do not only do the work U.S. citizens don't do. Only around 5% work the fields anymore, our farmers were still short handed with 20 million Illegals here and wanted even more to come. The other 95% take jobs away from Americans trying to support their families.
I could go on and on about all the negatives illegal immigration puts on our system, jails, hospitals, schools, ect....... a very long list, but I'm sure you understand all this.
One last thing, Bill Clinton inherited a strong economy, he did not turn a week economy into a strong one just to, cough cough, correct you again.
October 30, 2007
1:52 PM
shaggy writes:
Sry, On a diff. Puter.
October 30, 2007
2:01 PM
just sayin' writes:
I agree Hogar. You are free to wish for a Theocracy and I am free to point out what a mess that would be. I don't want to live in a country ruled by the American Taliban
October 30, 2007
2:10 PM
Uncommon Sense writes:
“One last thing, Bill Clinton inherited a strong economy, he did not turn a week economy into a strong one just to, cough cough, correct you again.”
The link below debunks that myth pretty effectively.
“Many of the nation's top economic analysts concurred with the interpretation of a weak and uncertain economy in the second half of 1992:
James Cooper and Kathleen Madigan, Business Week: "To be sure, President-elect Bill Clinton inherits a struggling economy." [BusinessWeek 11/23/92
Bruce Steinberg, Merrill Lynch: "The economy is comatose and shows only the faintest signs of life right now." [Quoted in the Washington Post, 9/26/92]
Allen Sinai: "There are real signs here that the economy is sliding badly, surprisingly badly." [Quoted in the Washington Post, 9/26/92]
Fortune Magazine's Annual Economic Forecast: 11/2/92 "Everywhere executives are grumbling in disappointment – they had expected things to be better by now…The economy could be even weaker than the official figures show."
Washington Post, article by Steven Mufson and John Berry, 9/10/92: "Americans have been unable to mount a convincing economic recovery … the economy is crawling forward so slowly that it appears to be standing still … In some statistical categories .. there has even been a "triple dip."
”
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2004/08/b134891.html
October 30, 2007
2:16 PM
RickyLee writes:
And no mention of our overburdened
health care system, uncommon sense.
Please see my Oct. 29, 12:22pm
post. Is this guy a racist? Lots of people here accuse bigotry and racism for exactly what Mr. Garcia
says. The reason nobody addresses Anthony Garcia and people like him, is because the racist argument becomes exposed for exactly what it is; nonsense.
And when that happens, the bleeding-heart, "we can save the whole world" crowd has no other argument, viable or otherwise. Hence
their silence about the LEGAL immigrants who are, like most American CITIZENS,
fed up with ILLEGAL immigration.
One more time; I don't have a problem with immigrants. I have a problem with ILLEGAL immigrants. The difference isn't difficult to recognize, but the whiney
lovers of illegals attempt to cloud the issue by claiming people like me are "anti-immigrant", instead of "anti illegal immigrant. Let's try to get it right, OK?
October 30, 2007
2:24 PM
Hogar De Vuelta (العودة) writes:
JS,
I don't want a theocracy, I just want the Republic that Jefferson gave us, not overly powerful central government that Lincoln the genocidal all supreme ruler gave us.
October 30, 2007
2:31 PM
Uncommon Sense writes:
RickyLee-
I wasn't trying to avoid the obvious point about an overburdened health care system. Yes, illegals aliens are stressing an already problematic system.
You made a point about illegals not learning english, and that was causing problems with overburdening schools.
My response was only to show you that they are learning english pretty much the same as all immigrants have done for the past century. I agree that they are draining resources from schools and from hospitals. I never challenged that pretty obvious fact.
I never said Tancredo was racist (I don't know enough about him to know that either way). If I was forced to classify him based on what I have read, I think xenophobic would be more apt. I never said you were anti-immigrant.
I do think that while people of all stripes can be "fed up" with illegal immigration, anyone who think that meaningful progress can be made with a "deport them all and build a wall" approach is ignoring the complex social, political and econmic issues in play.
October 30, 2007
3:04 PM
Ben's Border Street writes:
US,
Yes deporting them all (follow the laws) and building physical barriers makes so much sense, common sense. Illegal aliens will get the message that the need to stand in line with legitimate immigrants that are coming in the front door. As for learning English, Ricky Lee is right. They don't because they are catered too and don't have to, legal or not. In many instances the American taxpayer is paying for illegals to learn English in the USA and they still won't. There is no need, political correctness dictates their needs will be attended to by the USA and the taxpayers of the USA. That and the fact that illegal aliens are breaching our borders by the millions each year illegally, decade upon decade with no end in sight.
October 30, 2007
3:10 PM
shaggy writes:
UC,
You are just like 760 or jay when you post links of progressive web sites and cite them as facts.
Would you give any credibility to any link I posted if it was from Fox news or a far right web site?
October 30, 2007
3:13 PM
Cracks me up every time... writes:
But What About The Children??????
October 30, 2007
3:42 PM
RickyLee writes:
Uncommon sense,
Well put, and thanks ever so much for an intelligent discussion on the matter. It's a refreshing change!!!
October 30, 2007
3:52 PM
Uncommon Sense writes:
“You are just like 760 or jay when you post links of progressive web sites and cite them as facts.” - Shaggy
Did you bother to actually read the linked pages? One was a university study of census data. Pretty hard to argue bias there.
The second website is indeed a progressive site. HOWEVER- it uses facts (numbers, stats etc.) with verifiable INDEPENDENT sources, which it openly discloses throughout the page. In the snippet I posted, for example (which you can scroll down and read yourself), they cite BusinessWeek, Fortune, a Merrill Lynch analyst and Allen Sinai- the founder, Chief Global Economist and President of Decision Economics. Do those sound like liberal sources? One of the many places you get it wrong Shaggy is confusing fact with opinion. If something list verifiable facts, it doesn’t matter if it is on Daily Kos or Fox News. However you rarely link to anything that isn’t just an opinion piece, which does nothing to support your usually weak argument.
“As for learning English, Ricky Lee is right. They don't because they are catered too and don't have to, legal or not. In many instances the American taxpayer is paying for illegals to learn English in the USA and they still won't.” - Ben
I just posted an analysis of census data that shows what you said is, in fact a lie. Yes, illegal aliens are stressing our systems and creating a host of problems. But repeating the mantra “they just won’t learn English!” is simply not true. And, while I offered proof to the contrary (and you offered nothing to back up your claim- as usual), I am sure it is a lie you will continue to spread.
RickyLee- glad to try to lend credence to the idea that, even over an emotionally charged issue, people can debate without simply relying on name calling and misinformation.
October 30, 2007
4:10 PM
am 760 writes:
In Shags and other right wingers world, unless it comes from faux naus it is all just liberal lies.
Shag, the articles are posted on these sites but are wrtitten by people who are knowledgeable in that particular field. They usually don't have ties to the oil/gas industry and are not payed off by people on the right. They are just experts in their field and are trying to get some truth out to the general public.
Most of your links are receiving money from the GOP in someway. That latest FEMA so called news conference is a good example
BIG DIFFERENCE there. In the future before you post a link do some research in how it ties to the GOP, the grand obstructionist party who continues to stifle congress. You did read that link didn't you shag, if not here it is again.
http://democrats.senate.gov/dpc/dpc-new.cfm?doc_name=fs-110-1-120
October 30, 2007
4:11 PM
benn writes:
I thought conservatives loved the free market... if your a business and it makes fiscal sense to advertise in Spanish, then what's the problem.
Silly repubs, you say you hate government, you love the market, but now you want BIG government to fix your pet issue, and you want to REGULATE the market for your pet issue.
tsk tsk
October 30, 2007
4:43 PM
Ben's Border Street writes:
Uncommon "But repeating the mantra “they just won’t learn English!” is simply not true."
Well US, I was refering to vast and diverse personal experience. I personally know illegal aliens who got amnesty in 1986, and still do not speak or care to speak English. There is no need. They can however, suckle at the teat of the US benefits system in my home state with ease and without English. All voting materials are in Spanish. Pues, Yo diria que necesitas aprender espanol en su patria, y los illegales no necesitan aprender el ingles.
Being liberal doesn't have to mean you are also ignorant about your surroundings.
benn, conservatives and traditional liberals are coming together in non-partisan manner to address the illegal immigration mess, and you will find increasingly it doesn't involve any amnesty or incentives for illegal immigration to continue.
October 30, 2007
4:50 PM
Hogar De Vuelts العودة writes:
am760,
The FEMA news conference is just another reason I don't want big Federal government. I want almost everyon in D.C. to be out of work, you just want the same circus with different clowns.
October 30, 2007
5:17 PM
benn writes:
RIght Ben. In my view, there are those on the hysterical side of things, with ignorant, knee-jerk and emotional based plans, and there are realists who have have rational ideas and reasonable plans.
Your views fall under the hysterical side.
October 30, 2007
5:32 PM
Ben's Border Street writes:
Thanks benn,
Coming from you I'll take that as a compliment. Good luck with the head in the sand deal.
Lou Dobbs Tonight on CNN
Do you believe it is racist to enforce U.S. immigration laws and to secure our ports and borders?
Yes 3% 286
No 97% 10885
Total Votes: 11171
I believe this 3% epitomizes the "hysterical" element.
October 30, 2007
5:33 PM
Geof writes:
Observer, I agitate as a means to an end, a la Anne-tagoniser Coldturd, O'Reiller, Bum-Rush, and of course Cheney and Rove. But as well, they bait mostly to distract and defer, dilute and delay, the entrenched tactic of the bile-dripping Right (which apparently includes you). I've had quite enough of your pack dishing Bushit out day after day, year after year, and getting away with lies and death and hypocrisy which exceed all records. What really irks you and your ugly ilk (nice!) is that the truth about you will not go away - and this is why I'm here, to remind you again, and again, and again...
So, keep up the bad work, and in my own way I will remind you that your soul is lost not because someone took it, but because you left it behind.
October 30, 2007
6:42 PM
Another Observer writes:
Way to hate Geof. That type of vitrol is directly out of left field and you wear it like a footsoldier. Why do you hate America?
Left wing radical lunatic.
October 30, 2007
8:18 PM
Anonymous writes:
I have read all of these posting for the last 2 days and cannot understand why you hate Tom Tancredo.
He has only tried to open the eyes of the American people to the invasion that is going on behind the scenes that this newspaper and the other paper (which is owned by the same) will not talk about.
What he says about the invasion is true and honest.
Jobs have been lost and hospitals have closed because of this invasion.
Your tax dollars and mine are being spent on people that are not here legally.
Why do you all not see this?
I am asking all of you to put aside your political views and focus on America.
Thank you
Vet
October 31, 2007
7:23 AM
Anonymous writes:
I told you that Geof would be back after kindergarten let out for the day!
How was school today honey?
Would you like some cookies?
October 31, 2007
7:56 AM
Anonymous writes:
"Anne-tagoniser Coldturd" ?
This is not an adult we are dealing with folks. Not mentally anyway. Really adds credibility to the "progressive" position.
Can't wait to hear more!
October 31, 2007
8:57 AM
Uncommon Sense writes:
“Well US, I was refering to vast and diverse personal experience. I personally know illegal aliens who got amnesty in 1986, and still do not speak or care to speak English.” –Ben
Yes, when presented with facts, always counter with the “Well I personally know that….”.
In case you are still unclear what the actual situation is, here is the breakdown. English assimilation (how fast they learn English) has not changed much over the past 100 years. First generation struggles to learn English, second generation is bilingual, and third generation is mostly English only. This holds true, even through the 90’s when the huge increase in immigration (legal and illegal) really took off. It is true with Hispanics, Asians and European immigrants.
Your “vast and diverse personal experience” aside, the above statement is a fact, backed up by scientific research and analysis.
Unfortunately, Ben, I think our exchange represents a lot about the illegal immigration debate overall. You make a statement. One that you have heard over and over on like minded talk radio shows and Fox news. I have no doubt that you believe it is true. I read the same statement, go out and investigate it on my own (something the right never seems to do). I find a university study of census data that asked the same question I did, “Is there any difference in English assimilation in today’s immigrants?”. They aren’t a liberal group, and in their analysis they mention that both sides of the debate are interested in finding out the answer. The study shows, clearly, the answer is no.
But since that doesn’t fit your viewpoint, you simply ignore it, and, ironically, claim I am “ignorant about your surroundings”. So I, the one who bothered to see if a statement is true or not, is the ignorant one. Yet you, who can only regurgitate what you have been spoon fed and refuses to even look at facts when they run contrary to your beliefs, personifies ignorance.
Illegal immigration is a massively complex problem. It will require more than slogans and chest pounding. But if you can’t even look critically at some small part of the issue, when presented with fact (not opinion), then there is no hope for finding logical solutions. Reason is the ability to look at the evidence before you, and to objectively determine how that affects your ideas. Without the ability to reason (which you have yet to show) it is just repeated name calling and shouting.
October 31, 2007
9:45 AM
Anonymous writes:
Are we still going to bomb Mecca? How about Miami?
October 31, 2007
9:50 AM
Anonymous writes:
Well, Luke, what did Ted Kennedy get away with when he killed a young woman with his car? Please, inlighten us with your infinite wisdom.....
Posted by RickyLee
Lets not forget about Laura Bush. She ran down her high school sweetheart and killed him. I'm sure RickyLee is just as concerned about that miscarriage of justice as she(it) is about Kennedy.
October 31, 2007
9:53 AM
Geof writes:
Conservatives would be the LAST to define anything material, especially what is mature. They have no credibility, it's all been blasted away by the nu-cu-lear furnace that is the ineptitude and stupidity of Bush. And each time I see an anonymous post just reinforces that fact, and it also emphasizes a lack of conviction.
As long as Republicans believe that something like immigration is more important than a war based on lies, and overlook the rampant corruption and hypocrisy of their own party, the only thing they stand for is death and destruction. The lesson they must learn is that not all things are equal - oral sex is not remotely as bad as war, for instance - before anything they say can be considered rational.
As for Anne Coulter, she can be defined by one word - antagonize. It's her only objective, she is a one-trick pony. So a nick-name like "Anne-tagonizer Coldturd" isn't the most clever thing to say, sure, but the fact that GOPSOB's don't get it says a whole lot about them and how empty they are. Republicans are humorless sheep, and I'm being VERY kind (just for a moment, though).
Hey, a partial quote from Hermann Goering, you know, one of Hitler's boys.
"people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."
http://www.rense.com/general21/wara.htm
Tancredo's fear card is immigration, just so you had a chance to know. Now can any of you tell me when an Iraqi attacked an American on U.S. soil?
When you try to stand on bullshit
you will fall
October 31, 2007
10:00 AM
shaggy writes:
Border street Ben,
I got this e-mail today from a friend that lives outside this state. Even people outside the state get word and see how racial Tina is. It is kinda long but I don't care, I want everyone to read it and I am also e-mailing it to everyone on my e-mail address. I may even e-mail Tina and let her know what is going around on the internet. Her whole goal is to get attention so I think we should let everyone know about her.
"> Tina Griego, journalist for the Denver Rocky Mountain News wrote a column
> titled, "Mexican visitor's lament" -- 10/25/07.
>
> She interviewed Mexican journalist Evangelina Hernandez while visiting
> Denver last week. Hernandez said,
>
> *"They (illegal aliens) pay rent, buy groceries, buy clothes...what happens
> to your country's economy if 20 million people go away?" ***
>
> That's a good question - it deserves an answer. Over 80 percent of
> Americans demand secured borders and illegal migration stopped. But what
> would happen if all 20 million or more vacated America? The answers may
> surprise you!
>
> - In California, if 3.5 million illegal aliens moved back to Mexico,
> it would leave an extra $10.2 billion to spend on overloaded school systems,
> bankrupted hospitals and overrun prisons. It would leave highways cleaner,
> safer and less congested. Everyone could understand one another as English
> became the dominate language again.
> - In Colorado, 500,000 illegal migrants, plus their 300,000 kids and
> grand-kids - would move back "home," mostly to Mexico. That would save
> Coloradans an estimated $2 billion (other experts say $7 BIL) annually in
> taxes that pay for schooling, medical, social-services and incarceration
> costs. It means 12,000 gang members would vanish out of Denver alone.
> - Colorado would save more than $20 million in prison costs, and the
> terror that those 7,300 alien criminals set upon local citizens. Denver
> Officer Don Young and hundreds of Colorado victims would not have suffered
> death, accidents, rapes and other crimes by illegals.
> - Denver Public Schools would not suffer a 67 percent drop out/flunk
> out rate via thousands of illegal alien students speaking 41 different
> languages. At least 200,000 vehicles would vanish from our gridlocked
> cities in Colorado. Denver's four percent unemployment rate would vanish as
> our working poor would gain jobs at a living wage.
> - In Florida, 1.5 million illegals would return the Sunshine State
> back to America, the rule of law and English.
> - In Chicago, Illinois, 2.1 million illegals would free up hospitals,
> schools, prisons and highways for a safer, cleaner and more crime-free
> experience.
>
> *If 20 million illegal aliens returned "home" -- *
>
> If 20 million illegal aliens returned "home," the U.S. economy would return
> to the rule of law. Employers would hire legal American citizens at a
> living wage. Everyone would pay their fair share of taxes because they
> wouldn't be working off the books. That would result in an additional $401
> billion in IRS income taxes collected annually, and an equal amount for
> local state and city coffers.
>
> No more push '1' for Spanish or '2' for English. No more confusion in
> American schools that now must content with over 100 languages that degrade
> the educational system for American kids. Our overcrowded schools would
> lose more than two million illegal alien kids at a cost of billions in ESL
> and free breakfasts and lunches.
>
> We would lose 500,000 illegal criminal alien inmates at a cost of more than
> $1.6 billion annually. That includes 15,000 MS-13 gang members who
> distribute $130 billion in drugs annually would vacate our country. In
> cities like L.A., 20,000 members of the "18th Street Gang" would vanish from
> our nation. No more Mexican forgery gangs for ID theft from Americans! No
> more foreign rapists and child molesters!
>
> Losing more than 20 million people would clear up our crowded highways and
> gridlock. Cleaner air and less drinking and driving American deaths by
> illegal aliens!
>
> *Drain on America's economy; taxpayers harmed, employers get rich*
>
> Over $80 billion annually wouldn't return to their home countries by cash
> transfers. Illegal migrants earned half that money untaxed, which further
> drains America's economy - which currently suffers an $8.7 trillion debt.
>
> At least 400,000 anchor babies would not be born in our country, costing us
> $109 billion per year per cycle. At least 86 hospitals in California,
> Georgia and Florida would still be operating instead of being bankrupted out
> of existence because illegals pay nothing via the EMTOLA Act. Americans
> wouldn't suffer thousands of TB and hepatitis cases rampant in our
> country-brought in by illegals unscreened at our borders.
>
> Our cities would see 20 million less people driving, polluting and grid
> locking our cities. It would also put the "progressives" on the horns of a
> dilemma; illegal aliens and their families cause 11 percent of our
> greenhouse gases.
>
> Over one million of Mexico's poorest citizens now live inside and along our
> border from Brownsville, Texas to San Diego, California in what the New York
> Times called, "colonias" or new neighborhoods. Trouble is, those living
> areas resemble Bombay and Calcutta with grinding poverty, filth, diseases,
> drugs, crimes, no sanitation and worse. They live without sewage, clean
> water, streets, electricity, roads or any kind of sanitation. The New York
> Times reported them to be America's new "Third World" inside our own
> country. Within 20 years, at their current growth rate, they expect 20
> million residents of those colonias. (I've seen them personally in Texas and
> Arizona; it's sickening beyond anything you can imagine.) By enforcing our
> laws, we could repatriate them back to Mexico.
>
> *High integrity, ethical invitation*
>
> *We invite 20 million aliens to go home, fix their own countries and/or make
> a better life in Mexico. We invite a million people into our country
> legally more than all other countries combined annually. We cannot and must
> not allow anarchy at our borders, more anarchy within our borders and
> growing lawlessness at every level in our nation. *
>
> *It's time to stand up for our country, our culture, our civilization and
> our way of life. *"
>
October 31, 2007
10:35 AM
Uncommon Sense writes:
Great Shaggy, post an email with no links to ANY sources for the numbers, of course.
Well, Texas is one state that actually studied the economic question of illegal immigration, and they came up with vastly different numbers.
“This is the first time any state has done a comprehensive financial analysis of the impact of undocumented immigrants on a state's budget and economy, looking at gross state product, revenues generated, taxes paid and the cost of state services.
The absence of the estimated 1.4 million undocumented immigrants in Texas in fiscal 2005 would have been a LOSS to our gross state product of $17.7 billion. Undocumented immigrants produced $1.58 billion in state revenues, which exceeded the $1.16 billion in state services they received. However, local governments bore the burden of $1.44 billion in uncompensated health care costs and local law enforcement costs not paid for by the state.
Carole Keeton Strayhorn, Texas Comptroller ”
http://www.cpa.state.tx.us/specialrpt/undocumented/
And the Texas Comptroller is a republican. So, the republican comptroller of Texas, says that the net economic effect of illegal immigrants on the state is positive. It also says it was the first state to do this analysis, which, if true, makes all of your undocumented, unsourced numbers highly suspect, (as usual) as they purport to show what the effects would be in various states.
It is easy to point out the costs of illegal immigration (social services and drains on the health, education and criminal justice systems etc.). But knee-jerk emails like the one you printed (rife with bizarre numbers like how illegal immigrants account for 11% of greenhouse gasses! Seriously?) always overlook the financial contribution they also make.
Since this was a statewide analysis, and not a local one, it is incomplete. They point out that there are large local costs incurred, but they don’t say what the local revenue is from them, so we don’t know the final answer. But we do know that Texas (which has to be one of the more heavily impacted states) when it looked at the impact on the state level, came up with the answer that illegal immigrants contribute MORE to the economic pot than they take out.
Is it still possible that, when taking the examination further to the local level, they end up negative? Absolutely. From the economic studies I have seen (and not just unsubstantiated numbers thrown around like you use), there are some credible studies claiming to show net positives, and some equally credible ones showing net negatives.
So, once again shaggy, you respond with undocumented numbers, and I answer with facts. What now, is the republican comptroller from Texas part of the grand liberal conspiracy trying to lie about immigration?
Once again, this proves that the real truth is complicated, and will require complicated solutions. But that won’t stop you from carrying on repeating the party line without ever once stopping, and thinking critically for yourself. Typical
October 31, 2007
10:43 AM
am 760 writes:
Hog, no one wants BiG government. We all want a efficient competent government which we have not had the last 7 years. Just a bunch of political hacks and cronies that put party before the people. That's the crowd you support. Clinton reduced the size of government when he was prez. and his adminstration was filled w/ competent reliable people.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance33.html
Oh, and no one wants illegal immigrants here either. Legal immigrants are fine.
October 31, 2007
10:54 AM
Anonymous writes:
Nice shag!
Uncommon sense,
Let us enforce the immigration laws on the books now. Now isn't that easy? Are you an American or an American't?
I give you my personal insight and experience.
Your reliance is apparently on selected computer sites for your paradigm on illegal aliens and illegal immigration.
Here is Colorado's own Frosty. This gentleman has been in every corner of the world.
http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frosty2.htm
October 31, 2007
10:56 AM
Uncommon Sense writes:
More proof that Shaggy’s numbers about illegal immigrants are complete BS -
“It means 12,000 gang members would vanish out of Denver alone.”
Yet, according to the RMN-
“According to Denver police statistics from 2003, the latest available, there were 220 gangs in Denver with 14,000 members - twice as many as estimated a decade earlier for the entire metro area.”
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_5287416,00.html
So, according to shaggy’s impeccable source, 86% of gang members are illegal aliens. Really? So the offshoots of the crips and bloods only make up 14% of Denver gangs? Wow- that is spectacularly stupid reasoning there.
Yes illegal immigration is a very serious problem, but what you posted was pure, unadulterated nonsense. For ONCE shaggy, would you take two seconds to look critically at what you are spoon fed before swallowing it all blindly.
October 31, 2007
11:02 AM
shaggy writes:
Here yo go UC,
Heres all the resources to keep you busy all day long. Have fun!!
www.capsweb.org ; www.numbersusa.com ;
> www.thesocialcontract.com ; www.fairus.org ; www.alipac.us ;
> www.firecoalition.com ; www.balance.org *
>
> > *Frosty Wooldridge** has bicycled across six continents - from the Arctic to
> the South Pole - as well as six times across the USA, coast to coast and
> border to border. In 2005, he bicycled from the Arctic Circle, Norway to
> Athens, Greece. He presents "The Coming Population Crisis in America: and
> what you can do about it" to civic clubs, church groups, high schools and
> colleges. He works to bring about sensible world population balance at his
> website www.frostywooldridge.com *
> Pamela Williams
> Colorado Deputy Director, F.I.R.E. Coalition
> Broomfield, CO 80234
> email: pamelaw@FIREcoalition.com
>
> Why should YOU care about illegal immigration? Take 30 minutes to find
> out:
> http://www.FIREcoalition.com/30minuteeducation.shtml > m/30minuteeducation.shtml>
>
> www.firecoalition.com
> www.wehirealiens.com
> www.operationbankrupt.com
> www.americafirstboycott.com
> www.operationfireandice.com
> www.operationbodycount.com
October 31, 2007
11:03 AM
Ben's Border Street writes:
Oh that was me @ 10:54
To add, Uncommon sense, those would be false numbers from your citation. It is an unknown how many illegals are in the country.
Oh how can millions of people with 5th grade educations give more than they take? That is ridiculous.
"Illegal Immigrants' Cost to Government Studied (washingtonpost.com)
Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government in 2002 and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of ...
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33783-2004Aug25.html
October 31, 2007
11:08 AM
Ben's Border Street writes:
Here is that link again:
"Illegal Immigrants' Cost to Government Studied (washingtonpost.com)
Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government in 2002 and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of ...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33783-2004Aug25.html
October 31, 2007
11:08 AM
shaggy writes:
Hey UC,
Sometimes I can't get right back to you so give me a little time to respond before you try and call me a liar or say that I don't back anything up O.K.
I do not make my living teaching people like you the hazards of Illegal immigration
October 31, 2007
11:30 AM
Uncommon Sense writes:
Shaggy- you posted bogus numbers with no support for them. You did that at the time you posted them. The 12,000 Denver gang members being illegals is just one example. My point is that you don’t ever question what you are spoon fed. You have yet to ever re-examine your position when confronted with facts.
Ben- funny, did you not read the rest of the article you linked to?
“"Implied within this study's findings is the sense that if these people could suddenly be made to disappear, the federal government would be $10 billion to the plus, and that is almost certainly not true once you look at the numbers," Jeffrey S. Passel, a demographer at the Urban Institute, said in an interview.
"Should you charge up to undocumented aliens the cost of small-business loans that they don't get or the cost of civil litigation, among other things? This report does that," he said.
Frank Sharry, director of the National Immigration Forum, an immigrant advocacy group, took issue with the report's treatment of illegal immigrants' U.S.-born children, who are American citizens.
"The costs of the children of immigrants are accounted for [in the report], but not their contributions to the economy as workers and taxpayers," he said in a written statement, adding that the report's conclusions were not helpful to the debate on immigration reform.”
So, like I said, there are studies that show a negative effect and those that show a positive one. The criticisms of the study you presented (in the same article) show that at least some of those who examined the numbers found them to be bogus. Regardless of which group of “experts” you believe, it is apparent that the economic impact is debateable- not a slam dunk on either side.
“Oh how can millions of people with 5th grade educations give more than they take? That is ridiculous.”
Because they can get jobs cleaning toilets, picking vegetables, and doing laundry etc. They pay rent (which allows the landowner to pay property taxes). They buy groceries and clothes and appliances, paying sales tax. If you stopped to think about it, it is pretty clear how someone with a 5th grade education could easily contribute more than they take out.
October 31, 2007
11:30 AM
James Dobson writes:
We are spending $2Billion a week in Iraq. Illegal Immigration is like spitting in a bucket. Get out of Iraq and we can pay for a lot of problems. Illegal Immigration is a non-issue compared to the War in Iraq
October 31, 2007
11:40 AM
Anonymous writes:
James must prefer his wars domestically grown.
October 31, 2007
11:44 AM
Ben's Border Street writes:
"The High Cost of Cheap Labor"
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
October 31, 2007
11:50 AM
Ben's Border Street writes:
"Economist says cost of illegal immigration rivals federal deficit
A former chief economist for the state of California says illegal immigrants impose a "tax" on legal California residents in the tens of billions of dollars. And he argues that the ... "
http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/10/economist_says_cost_of_illegal.php
October 31, 2007
11:56 AM
Ben's Border Street writes:
"The #1 Real Time Site on Illegal Immigration Statistics"
http://www.immigrationcounters.com/
October 31, 2007
12:01 PM
Ben's Border Street writes:
Report: Illegal Immigration Could Cost Taxpayers Trillions - San Diego ...
Report: Illegal Immigration Could Cost Taxpayers Trillions Congressional Hearing On Immigration Held In San Diego
http://www.10news.com/news/9620142/detail.html
October 31, 2007
12:02 PM
Michael writes:
"They buy groceries and clothes and appliances, paying sales tax. If you stopped to think about it, it is pretty clear how someone with a 5th grade education could easily contribute more than they take out." -uncommon sense
Do you really believe this? This person with the 5th grade education may be able to buy food, clothes and the bare minimums of life but I doubt very much if they are buying many 'appliances'. Not to mention they are not buying car insurance, health insurance, or home owners/renters insurance (I have personal experience in this area). They cannot afford these things because they exist on the fringe of our economy. And the fact that they do not have these items means that when things go wrong (and they always do eventually for all of us) the costs of that are dumped onto society as a whole.
I will not even get into the criminal illegal aliens cost to our society in drunk driving deaths and violent crime. It is staggering. What happened to the mantra of the left of "if it saves only one life it's worth it"? That phrase is used whenever a new social program is asked for (demanded). If we had no illegals running around America how many lives would be saved by the elimination of the 100s of 1000s of criminal illegal aliens in our jails and prisons and on our streets at this moment? What is the $$ value of those lives?
October 31, 2007
12:05 PM
shaggy writes:
Hey US,
When you read something that is highlighted in blue, that is called a link, if you click on that link it will take you to the place to find out where to get your references.
I pasted all the links for your examination if you would like to do a little research for your self.
Got it???
If you want some more facts about the devastation of illegal immigration, lets set up a time to meet and we can take a trip to all the Hospitals that have filed bankruptcy and all the schools that have closed due to illegal immigration.
October 31, 2007
12:16 PM
Ben's Border Street writes:
Hidden Cost of Illegal Immigration
http://redtape.msnbc.com/2006/03/hidden_cost_of_.html
October 31, 2007
12:23 PM
shaggy writes:
"OVER 9,000 AMERICANS ARE KILLED BY ILLEGAL ALIENS EVERY YEAR IN THE UNITED STATES.
In fact, more Americans are killed at the hands of illegal aliens every year in America than in all the conflicts and terrorists attacks and bombings since the end of the Vietnam War COMBINED!!!"
http://www.firecoalition.com/obc/
October 31, 2007
12:33 PM
Ben writes:
Uncommon sense, you need to change your name.
"They buy groceries and clothes and appliances, paying sales tax. If you stopped to think about it, it is pretty clear how someone with a 5th grade education could easily contribute more than they take out." -uncommon sense
Wow.....
They can, and most often get for free from the American taxpayer:
Education
Health Care
Housing though HUD
Food
etc.
so, sure they can buy things, Americans are footing the big bills.
UnCommon
Can you calculate what the cost of the 9000 Americans killed per year by illegal aliens is geometrically in dollars? How about the costs in their entirety-future generations of American taxpaying citizens?
October 31, 2007
12:52 PM
Anonymous writes:
Tom Tancredo. Thank you!
October 31, 2007
12:57 PM
benn writes:
Tom Tancredo. No Thank You!
October 31, 2007
1:02 PM
Uncommon Sense writes:
“When you read something that is highlighted in blue, that is called a link, if you click on that link it will take you to the place to find out where to get your references.” - Shaggy
Funny, I respond by actually going out to the link you post, and as usual, it turns out to be nothing remotely close to objective proof.
Let’s look at you last post, which is a PERFECT example.
You say that 9,000 americans are killed each year from illegal aliens. You then offer a link to a site, which repeats the same fact. It does NOT bother to back this up with a source, or even an explanation of how they got that number. They point to a congressman’s website- it to offers NO explanation of the figure.
If you Google the congressman or the claim, eventually you find this “According to US Representative Steve King (R-IA), illegal aliens commit 12 murders every day in the U.S. and kill another 13 daily through drunk driving incidents.
That's more than 9,000 people killed every year by illegal aliens.”
Ok, so now we have the original source of the quote, but still no idea how he got the number. If you google the source, you will quickly find that these numbers MAKE NO SENSE, given the crime data reported.
“In fact, the FBI does not categorize Hispanics as a separate racial group in its statistics, but instead includes them with Caucasians. Even so, the numbers demonstrate rather clearly that King and WND are talking out of their hats. Of all the people arrested for murders in 2005 (10,083), only 4,955 were white/Hispanic, and that includes all arrests in that racial category. In order to believe King and WND, every single one of these people would have to be illegal aliens.
Asinine hardly begins to describe this report. Conservative decry junk science; bad statistics are just as bad. It took me all of 10 minutes to check this data, something that Rep. King apparently couldn't bother to have his staff do, and a standard fact check that WND declined to perform.
It seems that some people will believe almost anything as long as it can be used to demonize illegal aliens.
We need better border security and a plan to end illegal immigration. What we do not need are easily-debunked memes like this floating around, discrediting proponents of border enforcement and painting all of us as benighted haters. Rep. King did us all a disservice and WND once again proved itself more useful for hysterics than truth.”
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/008597.php
So, once again the numbers you quote (and never give a source for) are easily debunked by checking the FBI crime data (which the site above actually links to). The number you quote CANNOT MATHMATICALLY BE TRUE. There are not enough reported murders by Whites and Hispanics to make your claim possible. This isn’t a liberal or conservative thing, it is a simple act of looking at data and realize that you are being lied to.
Yet again, you throw out a lie, which is easily disproved by hard numbers. But I know that won’t stop you from saying it again. Like I said- no ability to think critically- thank you for proving my point… again.
October 31, 2007
1:35 PM
shaggy writes:
Here you go UC,
http://www.thefortwaynesentinel.com/2007/07/illegal-aliens-kill-more-americans-on.html
I'll even paraphrase the segment that backs me up.
The "General Accountability Office (GAO) investigate and report information on criminal aliens incarcerated in federal and state prisons and local jails. The resulting GAO report revealed that illegal aliens make up 27% of the prison population. The cited figure of 12 million illegal aliens in the country means that they make up just 4% of the general population.
Using the GAO report 25 Americans, on average, are killed by illegal aliens every day. That works out to more than 9,000 deaths per year, or more than 36,000 deaths over the past four years. That's more than ten times the number of Americans killed in Iraq over the past four years!"
You don't debunk anything, you just prove to us all you are an opens border loonie.
October 31, 2007
1:37 PM
Ben writes:
shaggy, yep.
October 31, 2007
1:39 PM
Anonymous writes:
It's the War Stupid. Stop being distracted by this smaller problem
October 31, 2007
1:46 PM
shaggy writes:
And besides UC,
Even if the numbers are strewed a little bit ,it still means more people are getting killed on our own soil than foreign soil yet we only see protesters out protesting against the war killing so many Americans and we see no one out protesting about all the illegals killing Americans.
Or they say it is to costly.
Look at the costs incurred by the illegals and I would be willing to bet it is a much, much higher number when all is included such as c the closing of hospitals, schools ect..........................
Quite shameful and pathetic if you ask me.
October 31, 2007
1:55 PM
shaggy writes:
You are right about it shouldn't be a Rep. vs Dem or a Conservative vs Liberal thing.
It should be a United American thing about protecting our Country.
However it became a political issue when the Democrats started recruiting the illegals to help their political agendas.
In MY OPINION this tells me the Democrats are willing to sell out the good of the Country for their quest for power.
October 31, 2007
2:09 PM
Uncommon Sense writes:
It is sad that you still cannot get the point.
Once AGAIN, you do not provide a source. You link to a blog which says:
“Using the GAO report 25 Americans, on average, are killed by illegal aliens every day. That works out to more than 9,000 deaths per year, or more than 36,000 deaths over the past four years. That's more than ten times the number of Americans killed in Iraq over the past four years!”
They however do NOT link to the supposed “GAO Report”. And since their number, coincidently, equals the same number I just debunked before, what are the odds that this blogger took the same impossible data you mentioned before, and gave it a “GAO” title to give it false authenticity. If there really is this GAO report out there (which there isn’t) why wouldn’t they link to it.
I will spell it out for you in terms even a right-winger blinded by talk radio rage should understand.
According to the FBI (which have the only nationwide crime stats I have seen),
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/data/table_43.html
IT IS NOT POSSIBLE for illegal aliens to have committed that many murders.
The racial listings are White, Black, American Indian, or Asian.
Since there is no listing for Hispanic, the logical category they would be placed in is White. So the numbers for White contain both white and Hispanic. The total number of murders for that group was 4,955. If 12 people actually were killed per day by illegals, that would be 4,380. So 88% of that entire group arrested for murder would have to be illegal immigrants, which is profoundly stupid.
So, again, I have countered a right wing blog spewing lies with facts. And when pressed to provide facts, you link to a blog, which also fails to explain where it got that number from.
Can you point to one source that even EXPLAINS how they got that bogus number?
October 31, 2007
2:23 PM
observer writes:
Uncommon sense- You need a dose of reality. You are weak and your tactics transparent and predictable.
October 31, 2007
2:25 PM
shaggy writes:
UC,
You crack me up.
You will do anything to avoid the truth.
Why don't you go to the GAO and look it up for your self. I don't need convincing that illegals are destroying our Country.
http://www.gao.gov/
October 31, 2007
2:32 PM
Uncommon Sense writes:
Observer-
All I have done is provide PROOF that a number posted repeatedly by shaggy and Ben is actually not true. That's it.
That isn't a tactic or "weak", it is countering a lie with the truth.
I offer you the same chance to back up their numbers. Please link to any data source that remotely confirms the 9,000 a year number. If you can't do that, I stand by the FBI data, which, so far, has gone unchallenged.
Shaggy-
I did go to the GAO. unlike you, I actually try to verify things. I couldn't find it because it isn't there. Does it not bother you that someone tells you a lie, you go and repeat it, and when confronted with proof that it is a lie, you simply say "I know I am right" and refuse to even look at the facts? so gullible...
October 31, 2007
3:01 PM
Michael writes:
uncommon sense -
The one Denver cop shot dead by that illegal and those 3 girls killed in VA earlier this year are 4 dead at the hands of an ILLEGAL ALIEN who had no right to be in this country. That is 4 too many for me and for many others too. What is the value of their lives? What is the lost opportunity to them and their families? It is too God damn high a price.
October 31, 2007
3:19 PM
Mike writes:
Sorry, Shaggy, Uncommon Sense lived right up to his handle.
Look, nobody disagrees that illegal immigration is a problem. But to deal with that problem, we need to use our heads, not an open mouth spewing junk statistics and hollow rhetoric (gee, remind you of any soon-to-be ex-Congressmen we know?).
This is a real problem that requires real solutions. The facts remain that if there are 20,000,000 illegal aliens in this country, 1) it will cost untold hundreds of billions to remove them, 2) it will cost further hundreds of billions to keep them from coming back once they're removed, and 3) labor prices are going to go up, which will hit us all in the wallet.
Notice how Tancredo never really talks about all this? This is why his crusade is failing. People want workable answers, not loudmouth rhetoric.
October 31, 2007
3:22 PM
Uncommon Sense writes:
Michael,
I agree. There are many crimes (violent and non-violent) that are committed by illegal aliens. Law Enforcement faces a greater threat because any suspect with "nothing to lose" is going to be the most dangerous (true for illegal immigrants, true for escaped convicts). Yes, it is tragic, and in many instances, would be preventable if we had a functioning immigration system.
My point here is not to defend the status quo. The system is obviously broken. The examples you provided are a short list of the lives lost that should not have been. I agree we need more enforcement. The question then is how do we pay for it (and what do we give up to pay for it), and how will it work. If, for example, you take one cop away from other duties to hunt down illegal aliens, does that mean some other criminal (who is a US citizen) gets away with a crime because the cop that would have caught him is off chasing immigrants? We have limited resources, how do we want to use those?
I have said it before, and I will say it again, the problem is very complex, and there are no simple fixes. However, repeating made up numbers and lying about the nature of the problem does nothing to get us closer to a solution. So far, that is all Shaggy and Ben can muster up.
October 31, 2007
3:45 PM
shaggy writes:
"In Greeley, three children for every four adults taken into custody were affected by the raid on the Swift & Co. meat-processing plant Dec. 12.
A total of 201 children had at least one parent who were arrested. In all, there were more than a dozen pregnant women taken into custody."---Fernando Quintero
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_5736068,00.html
Wow, Looks like illegal immigration is getting totally out of control in Greeley.
I hope they open that new ICE office there pretty soon so we can deport more of them before they have their anchor babies for us to support.
I still don't know why someone would put their children in a predicament that very well could separate their family.
Oh well, they should know better than to come here ILLEGALLY.
Mike,
So according to you we should just give up and open the border for all to come as they please because it would be just to hard and expensive to deport them. Right?
We don't have to deport them, once we cut off all work for them and fining the hell out of businesses and throwing a few top executives in prison for awhile will solve the hiring problem fairly quickly and the moneys we receive from the fines could help build the fence.
A Country without borders is not a Country at all.
BTW,
Ask any family that has had a member killed, raped or murdered by an illegal if we should just let them stay because it will be to hard and not worth the effort.
October 31, 2007
3:51 PM
Cracks me up every time... writes:
But what about the children???
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_5736068,00.html
October 31, 2007
4:13 PM
Uncommon Sense writes:
Shaggy-
Just because someone challenges your use of lies and misinformation does NOT mean they don’t want to address the problem, it just means they know that simple minded slogans and “I am more patriotic than you” rhetoric won’t get the job done. Let’s look at what you have “proposed”.
“We don't have to deport them, once we cut off all work for them and fining the hell out of businesses and throwing a few top executives in prison for awhile will solve the hiring problem fairly quickly and the moneys we receive from the fines could help build the fence.”
Ok, so how do you propose we “cut off all work for them”? There are entire industries built on low cost immigrants (legal and illegal). Do they just walk away from the billions of dollars they make each year because you say so? We have a laundry list of fines and imprisonment as penalties for tax cheats. People (and corporations) still cheat.
But let’s pretend that your fines and prison terms somehow worked “fairly quickly” (which seems wholly improbable, but for the sake of argument let’s pretend). EACH time you want to fine a company, you have to give them a chance to have their day in court and present their case. That means, at the very least, a team of lawyers, records experts and other personnel presenting the government’s case. You need someplace to hold these cases- which also means a ton of office space located in all fifty states (and the personnel to maintain and secure that space). You need an accounting system to track those who pay the fines and those who don’t, and people to enter all the data. You need some kind of mechanism to recoup payments when they haven’t paid, and going after deadbeat companies is VERY time consuming and expensive. You need to process the paper trail for the entire process, and store it all somewhere. And, most of all, you will have to go through this process 10,000’s of time before it can come close to being an effective deterrent.
Congratulations Shaggy, you’ve just expanded the government more than any “liberal big government dem” ever has. And if you think that illegal aliens will simply “go home” without being deported, you are as naïve as you are ignorant. It is not that we should do nothing because your solution is “too hard”, it is that we should try to find workable solutions to these problems instead of repeating simple-minded mantras over and over.
Your “solution” sounds great when blared on right-wing radio (to an audience like you and Ben that never question anything), but it doesn’t do a damned thing to provide even a workable goal to move toward. Typical…
October 31, 2007
4:14 PM
shaggy writes:
UC,
Sex offenders are more prevalent in illegals vs the general public.
http://www.usillegalaliens.com/impacts_of_illegal_immigration_sex_crimes.html
October 31, 2007
4:40 PM
Uncommon Sense writes:
Shaggy-
I will give you credit for trying once more, and at least looking at sites that had some numbers on them. That is half the battle. However, as usual, there is no source for the numbers. She says it is the results of a study of “1,500 cases” but provides no links for how she got that number or where this data is. NO LINKS TO THE DATA shaggy.
So, lets compare her numbers to FBI data.
“Annualizing the results, that is 130,909 sex crimes committed annually by illegal aliens – crimes that never would have happened if they weren't here. This is part of the collateral damage of tolerating illegal immigration.”
According to the FBI data there were 47,392 sex crimes (other than forcible rape) committed by whites AND Hispanics. So already the numbers are off. But let’s add in rape, 11,980- that gives us a total of all White and Hispanic sex-related crimes of 59,372. Her number makes no sense. Given that the number of White AND Hispanic crimes only equaled 59K, the 130K figure is clearly made up.
While you did try and get numbers to prove your point (and I do give you credit for at least trying), there is still no underlying source for the data. And the data we do have (FBI Stats) show that number is preposterous.
October 31, 2007
4:45 PM
Ben writes:
Mike,
Illegal aliens Self Deport in Georgia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxe1WO27B_I
October 31, 2007
4:50 PM
benn writes:
Great debunking UC.
And thus you see why some many people lack any sort of critical thinking skills. Conservatives in particular just want to be spoon fed talking points from their party every night when watching Bill O'Reilly
October 31, 2007
4:54 PM
Ben Border Street writes:
Crimes by illegals: Derived from the Violent Crimes Institute in Atlanta
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4f1rc8gmYo
October 31, 2007
5:00 PM
Observer writes:
I've noticed uncommon sense has been flying by the seat of his pants. no or very few links to anything while there is links all around to debunk him. Then the other 2 idiots pat him on the back like he's actually proven anything. LOL
October 31, 2007
5:06 PM
Anonymous writes:
US, "breaks it down for us". He doesn't need any links to validate himself. hehe
October 31, 2007
5:25 PM
jay writes:
Man I'll never tire watching you far right wingers beat that minority drum of yours...all in futility.
Mass deportation ain't gonna happen fellas...better get used to the idea.
October 31, 2007
5:47 PM
Holier Than Thou writes:
Gosh! I'm going to miss Tancredo. Who else would suggest that vaporizing the Vatican and the Pope would easily convince the world's Catholics to convert to Judaism? Oh, I'm sorry. I got my religious icons confused. What he actually suggested was to nuke Islam's holy stuff. Yeah. That'll fix'em right up.
And we thought invading Iraq would be a breeze! Thanks to Dick Cheney and Don Rumsfled for your wisdom and articulate prognostications. It's been a real joyride watching my neighbor's kids come back with missing arms, legs, and heads while the US Treasury gets stuffed with IOUs. Tancredo has always been a big fan of invasions, except when it's composed of working Mexicans coming here to clean his office.
I love Tancredo because he loudly espouses the bigotry, hatred, unbridled greed, and insanity that other Republican crackpots only dare to think and quietly believe. Tancredo is the best of his breed. He'll book no advice from the cooler heads his ilk. And he don't need no stinkin' PR experts to tell him to STFU.
I'd like to say to Tom Tancredo, "Bye bye. We'll miss you!" But after years of soaking up new ideas in Washington, D.C. he's coming home to Colorado... oh no...
October 31, 2007
5:48 PM
jae writes:
Actually, Self Deportation is happening as we speak due to a renewed effort to enforce immigration law. That old "mass deportation" diversion has lost its luster, but leave it to self-hypnotized lunatics to still toss it around in desperation.
This is what scares the shamnesty crowd the most - successful immigration law enforcement. When the jobs go, so do the illegal immigrants. Expect to see those anchor kiddies exploited real soon as other options run out for the interlopers.
Thanks to Tom Tancredo, the great Shamnesty Machine is no more.
October 31, 2007
6:18 PM
shaggy writes:
Man I never tire of the loonies saying they want documented facts and stats when the hardcore facts stare them in the face with all the closures of our health care systems and school systems due to the illegal invaders.
We all live by Rules and Laws to make this a Great Country and the illegals do not respect neither of them.
Jae,
Good point, they will leave if no one hires them.
Throw a few top executives in the slammer and fine the hell out them and the message will get out real fast to all the others that it might not be a wise thing to hire illegals for a profit.
No government handouts and no work means no more illegal immigration problem.
Catering to them for votes and giving them Drivers licenses and Government assistance will only encourage more illegal immigration and more closures and strains on the American system.
October 31, 2007
6:24 PM
Ben's Border Brigade writes:
I wonder if the left wing radical minority consider these people as right wing or racist.
Black Americans Rise Up Against Illegal Immigration
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOLGYp1_k6Q
I wonder if Democrats are considering these Americans at all.
October 31, 2007
6:52 PM
shaggy, Soldier of Bens Brigade writes:
"I wonder if Democrats are considering these Americans at all."--Ben
Can't speak for all of the Democratic Candidates but Hillary does, then she doesn't, then she does, then............
October 31, 2007
8:30 PM
Anonymous writes:
"We all live by Rules and Laws to make this a Great Country and the illegals do not respect neither of them."
Neither do republicans lol
October 31, 2007
9:37 PM
Laura S. writes:
Tancredo has really gotten under the skin of Air Americans. He would be a fine opponent to the racial politician Salazar whose allegiance is not to the voters of Colorado, but La Raza.
Here's my check for $100 to get Tom's Senatorial campaign started.
November 1, 2007
5:51 AM
Americans writes:
Illegal aliens the jig is up. Go home.
Tancredo for Senate!
November 1, 2007
8:05 AM
Novak writes:
Laura you should just wipe your butt with that check. You would get more bang for your buck. Tancredo will not win any election outside of his 80% GOP district. He is a radical and most people see right through is rhetoric.
November 1, 2007
8:31 AM
Anonymous writes:
Tancredo is the only candidate of which I will be donating money.
November 1, 2007
8:58 AM
Uncommon Sense writes:
“I've noticed uncommon sense has been flying by the seat of his pants. no or very few links to anything while there is links all around to debunk him. Then the other 2 idiots pat him on the back like he's actually proven anything. LOL” – observer
OK, that is a total lie that ANYONE WHO CAN READ THIS BOARD can easily see. Let’s recap shall we?
10/30 1:43- Responded with to Ricky Lee with a link to a study of census data showing that immigrants today learn English at the same pace that immigrants have for the past century.
10/30 2:20- Responded to Anon post claiming Bill Clinton inherited a strong economy with a link (and quotes from news sources) to a site providing strong evidence that he inherited a weak economy.
10/31 10:35- responded to Shaggy’s email where he post a bunch of fabricated numbers in an effort to back up his argument about the economic effects of illegal immigration with a link to the study conducted by the Republican Comptroller of Texas which shows, at a state level at least, there was a net benefit.
10/31 10:56- responded to Shaggy’s email which claimed that there were 12,000 illegal immigrants in Denver gangs, with a link to a RMN article citing statistics that showed this number is obviously a lie.
10/31 1:02- responded to Shaggy and Ben’s repeated lie of 9,000 americans killed each year an explanation of just how that number came into being (made up) and a link to prove how to debunk it.
10/31 2:09 – responded to Shaggy’s link to a blog (which never provided the so-called data it bases it’s claims off of) with a link to the FBI statistics that show the number cited cannot possibly be true.
10/31 4:40 – Responded to Shaggy’s link by citing the same FBI statistics linked to at 10/31 2:09 which show these numbers to be made up.
EVERY CLAIM I HAVE MADE has been backed up with links to data. “no or very few links to anything”… well anyone who can read this board can see clearly that is- yet another- lie.
“while there is links all around to debunk him” Please, provide one link to actual data which disproves anything I have posted. ANYTHING.
It’s one thing to lie about numbers that you have to go out and research. But to lie and say I haven’t posted links that are RIGHT HERE to see, is just ridiculous.
November 1, 2007
9:02 AM
Mary writes:
I find myself wondering if the folks who choose to defend some other form of amnesty (which worked so well under Reagan - we went from about 3 million illegals to somewhere between 12-20 million depending on which site you read) are the ILLEGAL employers who want their profits maximized.
Yes - some costs may go up - but so will the base wage for low end jobs (shock - amazement), which also triggers wage increases up the line. And - there will be an offset of some costs actually coming down: fewer illegals in the emergency rooms should lower health care costs, lower auto insurance rates with fewer uninsured motorists on the roads, smaller class sizes, no extra costs for bilingual education or signs in both English & Spanish (which by the way is aimed predominately at those illegals - somehow the legal immigrants all seem to learn to speak the de facto language of the land), etc.
I will believe we really have a workforce shortage when legal workers (citizens or folks here legally with valid green cards) are employed and the waiting lists for potential legal immigrants (some of whom have waited more than 20 years after passing security clearance) are emptied - depending on the site, we are talking 3-8 million LEGAL immigrants, and I would suspect many of them would love to bring immediate family members, so let's guess that perhaps half of those folks would have a spouse who could also be added to the work force, increasing the number to 4.5-12 million. Sounds like a fair trade to me!
November 1, 2007
9:42 AM
Ben's Border Street writes:
Uncommon Sense,
You "Ward Churchhilled" your info.
The only thing you have proven is that you will say or do anything to either continue the fallacies of illegal immigration or stifle the truths about illegal immigration, according to your ideologies.
This occurs on
*Education
*Crime
*Economics
*Border security
*Immigration Programs
Give us a break.
November 1, 2007
9:55 AM
Uncommon Sense writes:
“You "Ward Churchhilled" your info.
The only thing you have proven is that you will say or do anything to either continue the fallacies of illegal immigration or stifle the truths about illegal immigration, according to your ideologies.”
Please Ben, show me one instance where I did not back up what I said with actual data. The entire record is right there below. Please just pull out ONE thing I said which was not backed up.
All I have done is provided proof that the numbers you guys throw around are lies- flat out. Not different interpretations of the truth, not “shades of gray” but outright lies- and I provided the data to prove it.
Not once have you or shaggy been able to do anything but launch a personal attack when your “data” gets questioned. The fact that your only defense when presented with data and evidence contrary to your opinion is to attack those who presented it.
So, a simple challenge for you Ben/Shaggy/Observer. Using what I have posted on this page (so you don’t even have to look anything up- just scroll down), please find ONE instance where I have not backed up what I said. Just ONE- shouldn’t be so hard if I “will say or do anything to either continue the fallacies of illegal immigration”.
November 2, 2007
3:51 PM
Truth Hurtz writes:
That illegal immigrants commit identity fraud, overburden our schools, hospitals, and law enforcement infrastructure, and generally cost America far more than they create (recall the record remittances to Mexico which are dollars hemorrhaging from our economy each day) are lies?
You are one stupid liberal moonbat Uncommon Sense. Please change your name to Senseless.