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March 19, 2008 9:27 AM

What did you think of Obama's speech on race?

obamaspeechrtl.jpg

Sen. Barack Obama's stirring speech on race, politics and America continues to be the country's political talking point.

Rocky columnist Bill Johnson says the speech is worth reading - and then reading again.

Whether you like him or not, whether you will vote for him or against him, I believe this speech will one day become required reading in my grandchildren's classroom.

It was a treatise on where the American people are on race, written and spoken by a mainstream American politician in a way I had never heard before, a speech I fully believed not one of them would in a million years have the personal or political guts to deliver.

"Even for those blacks who did make it," the Illinois senator said deep into his speech, "questions of race and racism continue to define their worldview in fundamental ways."

It is the one line that just sticks with me.

It has challenged me, forced me to look inward to assess the roots of the views I give here, those I share with my wife and friends and often force onto my children.

"For the men and women of Rev. (Jeremiah) Wright's generation," the senator said of his controversial pastor, "the memories of humiliation and doubt and fear have not gone away; nor has the anger and bitterness of those years."

That lone passage reminded me of my father and mother, and their generation, of their intercessions that I could not just be me, but only a super-version of myself, lest the "white man" intercede and resign me to a lifetime of scrubbing his toilets.

For them, it was all that their life experiences had taught them.

The Rocky's editorial said the speech was .cool, collected and eloquent

Columnist Vincent Carroll says Obama gave what amounted to two speeches Tuesday, the one on race that sizzled and another on policy, mostly in the final minutes, that fizzled. On race, he appreciates America's dynamism and the fact that attitudes aren't "static." But the dynamism of the American economy seems to alarm him.

Does he really believe that the "shuttered mills" he evokes were universally such great places to work, or that even if they were, that equally attractive jobs haven't sprung up to replace them? Is outsourcing entirely evil?

Aren't many middle class people better off today than 10 or 20 years ago, even if some aren't? Is his vision so bleak that he really believes "most working and middle-class white Americans . . . feel their dreams slipping away"? Most?

Even if the entire middle class were being squeezed, as he believes, isn't it just a tad simplistic (not to mention demagogic) to finger "the real culprits" as a corrupt corporate culture, lobbyists, special interests and "short-term greed"?

You can read the full text of Obama's speech here.

Discussion

  • March 18, 2008

    8:57 AM

    SASQUATCH writes:

    WSJ: SHELBY STEELE NAILS OBAMA:


    "...nothing could be more dangerous to Mr. Obama's political aspirations than the revelation that he, the son of a white woman, sat Sunday after Sunday -- for 20 years -- in an Afrocentric, black nationalist church in which his own mother, not to mention other whites, could never feel comfortable. His pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, is a challenger who goes far past Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson in his anti-American outrage ("God damn America").

    How does one "transcend" race in this church? The fact is that Barack Obama has fellow-traveled with a hate-filled, anti-American black nationalism all his adult life, failing to stand and challenge an ideology that would have no place for his own mother. And what portent of presidential judgment is it to have exposed his two daughters for their entire lives to what is, at the very least, a subtext of anti-white vitriol?

    What could he have been thinking? Of course he wasn't thinking. He was driven by insecurity, by a need to "be black" despite his biracial background. And so fellow-traveling with a little race hatred seemed a small price to pay for a more secure racial identity. And anyway, wasn't this hatred more rhetorical than real?

    But now the floodlight of a presidential campaign has trained on this usually hidden corner of contemporary black life: a mindless indulgence in a rhetorical anti-Americanism as a way of bonding and of asserting one's blackness. Yet Jeremiah Wright, splashed across America's television screens, has shown us that there is no real difference between rhetorical hatred and real hatred.

    No matter his ultimate political fate, there is already enough pathos in Barack Obama to make him a cautionary tale. His public persona thrives on a manipulation of whites (bargaining), and his private sense of racial identity demands both self-betrayal and duplicity. His is the story of a man who flew so high, yet neglected to become himself."

  • March 18, 2008

    8:57 AM

    Love & Darkness & my Sidearm writes:

    Obama is addressing this head-on, yet the Righty media will continue to brainwash the masses by incessantly implying that Obama is in cahoots with the Pastor and is in total agreement with him.

  • March 18, 2008

    9:04 AM

    Anonymous writes:

    Can you imagine Dubya Bush trying to read that speech?

    It would be impossible for Dubya - it has way too may "big words" in it.

  • March 18, 2008

    9:08 AM

    SASQUATCH writes:

    If BUSH claims to be a Compasionate Conservative...would that not then open the door for OBAMA to claim that he's a Compasionate NAZI?

  • March 18, 2008

    9:08 AM

    Observer writes:

    Yawn, Actions speak louder than words. 20 years of his association with this church speaks volumes, no matter what type of damage control he tries.

  • March 18, 2008

    9:17 AM

    Anonymous writes:

    20years of racial hatred....no we can't..no we can't...

  • March 18, 2008

    9:22 AM

    Obama can't hide his past writes:

    Too little, and way too late. Obama's trying to distance himself from another inconvenient truth: He and his family have supported racist ideology against the United States and whites for more than 20 years, and suddenly, when exposed, backs off and betrays his pastor Wright and Minister of Islam Farrakhan? Obama doth protest too much--and is a hypocrite.

  • March 18, 2008

    9:27 AM

    ElliotNC writes:

    Where did Drudge get the advance copy?

    Oh yeah, I forgot... the Clinton Campaign feeds him Obama stuff.

  • March 18, 2008

    9:29 AM

    jim sandrin writes:

    The right wing jerks will continue to assault Obama regardless of what he says or does...and that goes for the individuals who hear and read what they want to digest...hatred and bigotry...grow up you yahoos! This man is the future of this country and he WILL be elected President of the USA...regardless of what you haters say or do...you just want to spread the falsehoods about this candidate to inflame and distort...You are sick...look on the bright side...Do you really want Bushlite McCain as your leader??? Think about that....

  • March 18, 2008

    9:30 AM

    jay writes:

    As we know the far right can't run on track record or policy stances, I wonder what the swiftboaters will use for ammo after obama takes this "issue" away from them?

  • March 18, 2008

    9:34 AM

    YesWeCan writes:

    Slam dunk for Obama! He put everyone in their place, especially the MSM that has tried to widen the divide.

  • March 18, 2008

    9:38 AM

    Obama's actions speak louder than his words writes:

    Right wing jerks can and will go after Obama, and people of all races, and creeds that support the United States (vs. anti-white, anti-Jewish radicals like Rev Wright) should too. Obama says one thing, and his actions and association with, and support of, radicals like his pastor expose quite another. Obama has shown his true colors, and should not be president.

  • March 18, 2008

    9:43 AM

    Anonymous writes:

    Obamas speech was utterly pathetic...No we can't...no we can't....this guy had 20 years dissociate himself with racial groups but obviously has felt a need to be belong to a race filled hate group...He still says he has never been in the racist church when the racist Wright gave one of his racial sermons....What a liar Obama is....does he really think we are that stupid???

    What an insult the flipping idiot is.
    Good bye Bama.....the devil will save you spot right next to the racist Wright and the racist Farrakhan.
    Good riddens..

  • March 18, 2008

    9:44 AM

    benn writes:

    That was an amazing speech.

    By FAR the most Presidential speech we have heard in the last 8 years, at least.

    I love how he addressed the plight of every citizen. He understands the white-middle and lower classes who don't feel like they have white advantage. He touched and illustrated the mindset of nearly every racial demographic.

    How course - A few trolls like Sasquatch were never going to vote for a Democrat anyway, so they will continue their ridiculous comment that "He must believe everything his pastor says".

    I think you can consider Mr. Wright to be a dead issue now (unless you are one of those few, ignorant Righties who are desperate to try and wedge into the remaining election).

    Now, lets watch him significantly close the gap on HRC in PA.

  • March 18, 2008

    9:46 AM

    Obama talks unity, yet walks divisiveness writes:

    Obama is a master of double-speak BS. He speaks of "unity" yet supports a pastor who preaches hate and bigotry toward whites and our great country? This is the stuff that divide us, and Obama supports it? Please.

  • March 18, 2008

    9:46 AM

    Neva Stoltz writes:

    Obama changes from white to black whenever his political future is in jeopardy. He should step down and forget it. He blames the Clinton for race being an issue. This man is the one that is continually using race. He is not the black person to run for president. He has betrayed both blacks and whites. He is not a uniter but a divider out to destroy this election!

  • March 18, 2008

    9:53 AM

    Stone Cold writes:

    What a FANTASTIC speech... I've forgotten that Presidents can give such compelling, eloquent and honest speeches. We haven't seen that for a very long time.

    Obama will be a great President - he is clearly a uniter, and is not afraid to speak openly and honestly - which is what we saw today.


    His eloquence in today's speech just clinched him the nomination, and he will be our next President.


    Count on it.

  • March 18, 2008

    9:58 AM

    We could use a president of color, just not Obama writes:

    Obama is a study in race identity confusion, AND cultural identity confusion. Obama talks out of both sides his mouth. He's "black" when it's convenient to call upon his color, and then suddenly calls upon his white heritage when the going gets tough, and he's scrutinized for his 20-year long-standing and CURRENT support of a hate-mongering, anti-white, anti-Jew, anti-US pastor! Obama tries to separate himself from his racist associations, yet still embraces them? What will he think of next?

  • March 18, 2008

    9:59 AM

    hlc writes:

    Do you support child molestation?

    Have all Catholics left the church and renounced the Pope and the priesthood? The Catholic Church has sheltered and protected the child molesters among the priesthood. Does this mean that Catholics approve of child molestation? Have all Catholic women had every possible conceivable (pun intended) child they could? Have Catholic women used birth control? Are all Catholics are against birth control because the Church is? Have all Catholics had sex ONLY for procreation? Do all Catholics believe in sexual abstinence unless the sex is for making a baby? We can go on and on and not just about the Catholic Church.

    Everyone picks and chooses which tenets of their church they will follow and ACTUALLY believe. Why is Barack Obama targeted because his church leader is (justifiably) angry about the racism Blacks have experienced?

  • March 18, 2008

    10:01 AM

    Anonymous writes:

    9:46... guess you should have listened to the speech. Next time, try thinking before posting.

  • March 18, 2008

    10:06 AM

    Anonymous writes:

    Obama can be as eloquent as he wants, it still won't help him now. Problem is, Obama STILL supports Rev Wright PUBLICLY. Big problem, and BIG difference. Obama will do no more for healthcare or for getting us out of Iraq than any other candidate. Obama won't be the next president Count on it.

  • March 18, 2008

    10:08 AM

    Vote for John McSame 2008 writes:

    I'm very happy with the economy, our enormous national debt, and the war in Iraq.

    That's why I want to "stay the course"

  • March 18, 2008

    10:09 AM

    SASQUATCH writes:

    RACE-RIOT BREAKS OUT AMONG DEMS:

    The very first citizens to inject racism into BO's presidential campaign were not white. Nor were they journalists or reporters. They were black leaders who questioned whether Barack Obama's bi-racial genetic inheritance made him legitimately "black enough" to run as a black man.

    And once he started winning, they claimed him, and stood front and center to rally African-American voters to one of their own. Many switched alliances mid-stream from Hillary Clinton to Obama.

    Black leaders,BO, then Wright, then HRC, WJC and then Ferraro. When does it end? Its a racial free-for-all; a race riot without any rules. I have never seen anything so offensive, pathetic and disgraceful in my entire life; hard-core lunatics and race-Nazis have captured the Dem Party that is focused on only one issue--race. Get ready for Chicago, 1968 right here in Denver. I hope that our Nation Guard is prepared.

  • March 18, 2008

    10:15 AM

    Shaggy writes:

    I like how Professional McCain is by visiting our troops and foreign nations and avoiding the embarrassing chaos the Democrats keep stirring up while the world laughs at them.

    The way a President should act.
    Now that is someone I would proudly vote for after seeing how disgraceful the other party has become.

    The Democratic party is split in two.
    They are an embarrassment.
    Hell they can't even raise enough money to reach their deadlines for the DNC.

  • March 18, 2008

    10:16 AM

    Luke Brady writes:

    Obama Rocks!

    Most pols in this position will lie and squirm and deflect, per the "Rovian" school of winning elections.

    Kudos to Barack Obama for coming out and being honest about the whole thing- this kind of honesty is refreshing and it is what America needs.


    Obama has earned my vote in November.

  • March 18, 2008

    10:20 AM

    jay writes:

    shag, since you brought up captain combover....why don't you share with us the bush administration accomplishments that excite you enough to cast a vote for a third term under mcsame?

  • March 18, 2008

    10:25 AM

    Anonymous writes:

    "Lesser minds" will say something stupid like "Obama should denounce every single person he's ever know who has said something anti-American. Obama is clearly anti-American because he has associated with people who have criticized America in speeches."

    That's why people who say such things are classified as "lesser minds".

  • March 18, 2008

    10:26 AM

    Obama desperately tries damage control--won't work this time writes:

    Obama eloquent? This is too little, and way too late.

    Obama's trying to distance himself from a WAY BIG inconvenient truth: Obama and family have supported racist ideology against the United States and whites for more than 20 years, and suddenly, when exposed, backs off. Yet Obama still publicly supports his pastor Wright, who's buddy-buddy with none other than black supremacist, racist, white-hater Minister of Islam Louis Farrakhan?

    Obama doth protest too much--and his unwillingness (or is it inability?) to separate himself from racist associates makes him a hypocrite.

  • March 18, 2008

    10:26 AM

    mosquito writes:

    Finally, America has the chance to continue the American dream and embody the dream of a United States of America. A person has come forth who has the integrity and the brilliance to view the many segments as a unified whole....a person who can lead us to a future of change....A change that we need if we are to continue as a democracy.

    Thank God for giving us an opportunity of a future with Barack Obama. I believe that the vast majority of Americans want the same thing and the few who are currently blinded with the old, hateful, divisive politics that keep the few in power and the many divided will eventually come around and realize that only in community with each other, respecting our differences and acknowledging our common dreams, will we ever know joy and happiness.

    buzz...buzz...

  • March 18, 2008

    10:28 AM

    Obama desperately tries damage control--won't work this time writes:

    Obama eloquent? This is too little, and way too late.

    Obama's trying to distance himself from a WAY BIG inconvenient truth: Obama and family have supported racist ideology against the United States and whites for more than 20 years, and suddenly, when exposed, backs off. Yet Obama still publicly supports his pastor Wright, who's buddy-buddy with none other than black supremacist, racist, white-hater Minister of Islam Louis Farrakhan?

    Obama doth protest too much--and his unwillingness (or is it inability?) to separate himself from racist associates makes him a hypocrite.

  • March 18, 2008

    10:30 AM

    history buff writes:

    O'Bama has more cajones than the whole group of professional haters who tirelessly post here on a daily basis. The irony that the racists are crying racism shouldn't be lost on anyone with half a brain.

    Meanwhile, front page headlines in the Wall Street Journal: U.S. Mulls Next Step in Crisis. And a picture of FDR on the front page, too. I guess the Neo-Cons were serious when they said regulation, including banking regulations, are socialism. We may be heading for the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression, but at least we are winning the war on socialism.

  • March 18, 2008

    10:32 AM

    snookcatcher149 writes:

    Obama represents the struggle of justice and mercy against the forces if dominance and intolerance. He experienced the vulnerability of the weak and oppressed as a child of mixed parentage raised by a single mom. He explored his heritage on both sides, discovered who he is, and developed the maturity, discipline and character to succeed remarkably in school,in career, and as a family man. He has demonstrated his management skills by conducting the most successful presidential primary campaign, in terms of contributors, money raised, and volunteer participation, in history. This speech demonstrates that he indeed talks the talk. He paid his dues in the years spent organizing voter registration on the streets of Chicago. He also walks the walk. I see no inconsistencies, apart from would be seen in any normal person. Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.

  • March 18, 2008

    10:33 AM

    Shaggy writes:

    jay are you still pouting about how disgraceful the Democratic party has become?
    I would probably be pouting too if I were you.

  • March 18, 2008

    10:37 AM

    JW writes:

    "I like how Professional McCain is by visiting our troops and foreign nations and avoiding the embarrassing chaos the Democrats keep stirring up while the world laughs at them.

    The way a President should act.
    Now that is someone I would proudly vote for after seeing how disgraceful the other party has become."


    If the presidents job was to do nothing but look good, Id say that was not a bad idea.

    As it stands, there happens to be alot more to being president.

    Prom Queen though...Shaggy should be on the comittee that elects prom queens in every school in colorado. Hes got that criteria DOWN!


    "jay are you still pouting about how disgraceful the Democratic party has become?
    I would probably be pouting too if I were you."


    Yes, the track record for Republicans over the last 7 years is so much better.

  • March 18, 2008

    10:37 AM

    jay writes:

    I'm not the one ashamed to discuss my party's track record and policy stances, shaggy

    still waiting on that answer...aren't you tired of avoiding it?

  • March 18, 2008

    10:43 AM

    We're all screwed writes:

    Winning the war on socialism, HB? More like privatize the profits and socialize the losses.

    I'd call a $30 billon buy-out of Bear-Sterns socialism for the wealthy. I'll bet the executives all get their million dollar bonuses for running the business into the ground too.

  • March 18, 2008

    10:43 AM

    benn writes:

    Pouting?

    We just had the most inspiring speech in a generation - whose pouting?

    It's okay Shaggy - I know you're scared of change

  • March 18, 2008

    10:45 AM

    Anonymous writes:

    "The church contains in full the kindness and cruelty, the fierce intelligence and the shocking ignorance, the struggles and successes, the love and yes, the bitterness and bias that make up the black experience in America."

    Ok so he acknowledges there is some problems with his church
    As such, Reverend Wright’s comments were not only wrong but divisive, divisive at a time when we need unity; racially charged at a time when we need to come together to solve a set of monumental "

    Then he says hes wrong and divisive and raically charged.

    " As imperfect as he may be, he has been like family to me. He strengthened my faith, officiated my wedding, and baptized my children. Not once in my conversations with him have I heard him talk about any ethnic group in derogatory terms, or treat whites with whom he interacted with anything but courtesy and respect"

    Then he says hes family and hes never heard him talk about any ethnic group in derogatory terms....

    Which is it Barack?

    btw this is not an ordinary church I've seen where we talk about jesus telling Paul to spreadin the good news to include all peoples. What happened to that?


  • March 18, 2008

    10:50 AM

    DMWSinNYC writes:

    To those who have never visited a predominantly black church where many if not most of the congregation is economically-challenged, this rhetoric is not uncommon.

    After 9/11/01 I felt more 'patriotic' than I had ever felt before. However, soon after that, when my best friend (who is Puerto Rican) was tripped on a sidewalk and spit upon because she was accused of being muslim - as though that is a negative; then when standing on 5th avenue seeing a pickup truck with dozens of flags waving in the air with 'Kill em All' graffiti-ed on the side; when a short time after my brother was pulled over by police more than 21 times in a matter of 3 months - whether he was driving a Honda or a Mercedes-Benz; when people who can't afford college working for minimum wage with no health benefits vote for politicians because they are 'afraid of terrorism'; these all serve to remind me that this country is full of bigoted, gullible, willingly un-informed people who allow the Few to rape us of our liberties, strip us of dignity and distract us with our own fears.

    These very same guinea pigs project their own anger and hatred on a group (pick one: blacks, muslims, gays, immigrants, Mexicans) they want to believe is beneath them. No where in there do you see whites, do you?

    When the constitution was written someone like me was not considered a human being. Just a few decades ago someone like me could not vote, could not go to school with a white person, could not go to the same stores, and the list goes on. Laws may have banned these things but you cannot legislate the heart of a person.

    And that is where the problem lies.

    No matter who gets in the White House, there will still be parts of this country where I am not welcome because of the color of my skin; I will still have to deal with bigoted remarks not only from overt bigots but (my favorites) liberal whites who are 'in the know'; I will still have to deal with blacks who dismiss me for fear that socializing too much with other blacks will disqualify them from opportunities; I will still have to deal with individuals in the workplace being surprised at my competence and intelligence; I will still have to deal with stats showing that as a black woman, over 35, with no children, the chances of my never marrying is more than double of my white counterpart.

    Don't give me headache if I go to a church that commiserates with my struggles. If I do not wholly agree with a comment extracted from a sermon (and you know how long black sermons can be) but agree with the message of the entire sermon, that is not a contradiction. By the way I am not religious in the least but I was aware enough as a black person to know that when the minister spoke and most of the congregation called out "Amen!", that the message spoke a truth that resonated with them - and that we cannot deny.

    The real question: What is that truth that spoke to those people's hearts?

    The answer: too much of America, including some blacks do not give 2 cents about answering the question, much less fixing it.

    Admit the hypocrisy of this country, people!

  • March 18, 2008

    10:51 AM

    snookcatcher149 writes:

    Obama represents the struggle of justice and mercy against the forces of dominance and intolerance. He has experienced the vulnerability of a bi-racial man raised by a single mom. He rose above adverse conditions to excel in school, career and as a family man. He paid his dues and learned the ropes in the years spent organizing voter registration on the streets of Chicago. He is now demonstrating his management skills by conducting the most successful presidential primary campaign - in terms of number of contributors, amount of contributions, number of volunteers, and number of votes - in history. This speech is a masterpiece of description of America's great history and present plight. Thank God for Obama - a man with insight and vision who will, I hope, replace a man with a closed mind and blind eye to the human condition.

  • March 18, 2008

    10:56 AM

    Typical Misinformed Right-Wing Tool writes:

    Under Dubya and the GOP, America has been attacked by terrorists on it's own soil, the economy has tanked, the federal debt has quadrupled, we've lost world standing among other leading nations, we've spent thousands of lives and billions of tax dollars in Iraq, we've not made huge progress against al Qaida in seven years, the nation has become divided and we've learned to expect lies and deceit from our Government.

    But, WHO CARES about any of that - Dubya's PASTOR has NEVER said anything that is anti-American.

    That's why I'm voting Republican again - for John McSame.

  • March 18, 2008

    10:57 AM

    k00kla writes:

    Wow. Twelve nasty right-wing comments right out of the gate. Holding on to this race issue is REALLY important to you guys, huh? Your over-zealous response to this speech betrays the desperation on your side. Maybe if you hadn't spent the past 7 years goose-stepping for a twisted bunch of crooks and calling your fellow countrymen traitors every chance you got, you'd have some credibility left.

  • March 18, 2008

    11:02 AM

    Me writes:

    The world is laughing at the Democratic Party? So the world isn’t laughing that the right wing has destroyed the US economy, spent 3 TRILLION on a war that will in the end make us and the country we destroyed worse off, have a president who butchers the English language more than some leaders in other countries who speak it as a second language, who has a horrific healthcare system (designed by the right wing in both parties to benefit HMO’s at the expense of the general public), who is isolated on countless issues from the rest of the world, etc. The world is laughing at what amounts to the same fake outrage that we see drummed up every election cycle by the right wing here. Sorry, the world is too busy dealing with real things to worry about this garbage. The right wing has “preachers” making millions off of their faith (didn’t Jesus have a problem with this?), calling for the assassination of other country’s presidents, blaming 9/11 on freaking lesbians & gay people, has a preacher close to McCain that has done a full frontal attack on Catholicism and they think that they can get made at Obama because his pastor said something factually correct, however too bluntly (have anything to say about the fact that the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world?)…ok, this might work for people who can’t think logically & need to be lead around like children. For people who vote for candidates based on ISSUES (like things just a tiny bit more important, say healthcare, the economy, the war, etc) and not this PR created nonsense, this is just an annoying sideshow for knuckle draggers.
    Do you know why the Republicans do this every election cycle? They think their base is stupid enough to ignore the issue effecting their lives (the issues in which their party has no solutions that work, but are instead created in some ideologically rigid fashion), while paying attention to this fluff, and they’re right. You right wingers would be offended, if you had brains enough to realize how little your party thinks of your intelligence. They realize that they don’t have to come up with a solution to the healthcare crisis, the war (and all future Iraq’s that they’ll start), what to do about the power Wall Street and lobbyists have on the government, the educational system, the economy & how reliant on war we are for it to function, etc. All they have to do is create this nonsense and you idiots will pull the lever for their candidate, who offers another four years of Bush. Again, they’re right. You all ARE that stupid.
    You people have the right to complain only if your side doesn’t have a long line of religious nutjobs in your party. Since you do, please grow the hell up and focus on the issues. It makes no logical sense for you, of all people, to be up in arms about what a freaking pastor said. If that were such an issue with you why the hell did you vote for Bush into office TWICE? Do you want a list of wanker quotes from the right wing preachers? My god, what guided stupidity.

  • March 18, 2008

    11:05 AM

    DMWSinNYC writes:

    To those who have never visited a predominantly black church where many if not most of the congregation is economically-challenged, this rhetoric is not uncommon.

    After 9/11/01 I felt more 'patriotic' than I had ever felt before. However, soon after that, when my best friend (who is Puerto Rican) was tripped on a sidewalk and spit upon because she was accused of being muslim - as though that is a negative; then when standing on 5th avenue seeing a pickup truck with dozens of flags waving in the air with 'Kill em All' graffiti-ed on the side; when a short time after my brother was pulled over by police more than 21 times in a matter of 3 months - whether he was driving a Honda or a Mercedes-Benz; when people who can't afford college working for minimum wage with no health benefits vote for politicians because they are 'afraid of terrorism'; these all serve to remind me that this country is full of bigoted, gullible, willingly un-informed people who allow the Few to rape us of our liberties, strip us of dignity and distract us with our own fears.

    These very same guinea pigs project their own anger and hatred on a group (pick one: blacks, muslims, gays, immigrants, Mexicans) they want to believe is beneath them. No where in there do you see whites, do you?

    When the constitution was written someone like me was not considered a human being. Just a few decades ago someone like me could not vote, could not go to school with a white person, could not go to the same stores, and the list goes on. Laws may have banned these things but you cannot legislate the heart of a person.

    And that is where the problem lies.

    No matter who gets in the White House, there will still be parts of this country where I am not welcome because of the color of my skin; I will still have to deal with bigoted remarks not only from overt bigots but (my favorites) liberal whites who are 'in the know'; I will still have to deal with blacks who dismiss me for fear that socializing too much with other blacks will disqualify them from opportunities; I will still have to deal with individuals in the workplace being surprised at my competence and intelligence; I will still have to deal with stats showing that as a black woman, over 35, with no children, the chances of my never marrying is more than double of my white counterpart.

    Don't give me headache if I go to a church that commiserates with my struggles. If I do not wholly agree with a comment extracted from a sermon (and you know how long black sermons can be) but agree with the message of the entire sermon, that is not a contradiction. By the way I am not religious in the least but I was aware enough as a black person to know that when the minister spoke and most of the congregation called out "Amen!", that the message spoke a truth that resonated strongly with them - and that we cannot deny.

    The real question: What is that truth that spoke to those people's hearts?

    The answer: too much of America, including some blacks do not give 2 cents about answering the question, much less helping to find ways to fix it.

    Admit the hypocrisy of this country, people!

  • March 18, 2008

    11:05 AM

    Wilber writes:

    The world is laughing at the Democratic Party? So the world isn’t laughing that the right wing has destroyed the US economy, spent 3 TRILLION on a war that will in the end make us and the country we destroyed worse off, have a president who butchers the English language more than some leaders in other countries who speak it as a second language, who has a horrific healthcare system (designed by the right wing in both parties to benefit HMO’s at the expense of the general public), who is isolated on countless issues from the rest of the world, etc. The world is laughing at what amounts to the same fake outrage that we see drummed up every election cycle by the right wing here. Sorry, the world is too busy dealing with real things to worry about this garbage. The right wing has “preachers” making millions off of their faith (didn’t Jesus have a problem with this?), calling for the assassination of other country’s presidents, blaming 9/11 on freaking lesbians & gay people, has a preacher close to McCain that has done a full frontal attack on Catholicism and they think that they can get made at Obama because his pastor said something factually correct, however too bluntly (have anything to say about the fact that the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world?)…ok, this might work for people who can’t think logically & need to be lead around like children. For people who vote for candidates based on ISSUES (like things just a tiny bit more important, say healthcare, the economy, the war, etc) and not this PR created nonsense, this is just an annoying sideshow for knuckle draggers.
    Do you know why the Republicans do this every election cycle? They think their base is stupid enough to ignore the issue effecting their lives (the issues in which their party has no solutions that work, but are instead created in some ideologically rigid fashion), while paying attention to this fluff, and they’re right. You right wingers would be offended, if you had brains enough to realize how little your party thinks of your intelligence. They realize that they don’t have to come up with a solution to the healthcare crisis, the war (and all future Iraq’s that they’ll start), what to do about the power Wall Street and lobbyists have on the government, the educational system, the economy & how reliant on war we are for it to function, etc. All they have to do is create this nonsense and you idiots will pull the lever for their candidate, who offers another four years of Bush. Again, they’re right. You all ARE that stupid.
    You people have the right to complain only if your side doesn’t have a long line of religious nutjobs in your party. Since you do, please grow the hell up and focus on the issues. It makes no logical sense for you, of all people, to be up in arms about what a freaking pastor said. If that were such an issue with you why the hell did you vote for Bush into office TWICE? Do you want a list of wanker quotes from the right wing preachers? My god, what guided stupidity.

  • March 18, 2008

    11:08 AM

    dmwsNYC writes:

    To those who have never visited a predominantly black church where many if not most of the congregation is economically-challenged, this rhetoric is not uncommon.

    After 9/11/01 I felt more 'patriotic' than I had ever felt before. However, soon after that, when my best friend (who is Puerto Rican) was tripped on a sidewalk and spit upon because she was accused of being muslim - as though that is a negative; then when standing on 5th avenue seeing a pickup truck with dozens of flags waving in the air with 'Kill em All' graffiti-ed on the side; when a short time after my brother was pulled over by police more than 21 times in a matter of 3 months - whether he was driving a Honda or a Mercedes-Benz; when people who can't afford college working for minimum wage with no health benefits vote for politicians because they are 'afraid of terrorism'; these all serve to remind me that this country is full of bigoted, gullible, willingly un-informed people who allow the Few to rape us of our liberties, strip us of dignity and distract us with our own fears.

    These very same guinea pigs project their own anger and hatred on a group (pick one: blacks, muslims, gays, immigrants, Mexicans) they want to believe is beneath them. No where in there do you see whites, do you?

    When the constitution was written someone like me was not considered a human being. Just a few decades ago someone like me could not vote, could not go to school with a white person, could not go to the same stores, and the list goes on. Laws may have banned these things but you cannot legislate the heart of a person.

    And that is where the problem lies.

    No matter who gets in the White House, there will still be parts of this country where I am not welcome because of the color of my skin; I will still have to deal with bigoted remarks not only from overt bigots but (my favorites) liberal whites who are 'in the know'; I will still have to deal with blacks who dismiss me for fear that socializing too much with other blacks will disqualify them from opportunities; I will still have to deal with individuals in the workplace being surprised at my competence and intelligence; I will still have to deal with stats showing that as a black woman, over 35, with no children, the chances of my never marrying is more than double of my white counterpart.

    Don't give me headache if I go to a church that commiserates with my struggles. If I do not wholly agree with a comment extracted from a sermon (and you know how long black sermons can be) but agree with the message of the entire sermon, that is not a contradiction. By the way I am not religious in the least but I was aware enough as a black person to know that when the minister spoke and most of the congregation called out "Amen!", that the message spoke a truth that resonated strongly with them - and that we cannot deny.

    The real question: What is that truth that spoke to those people's hearts?

    The answer: too much of America, including some blacks do not give 2 cents about answering the question, much less helping to find ways to fix it.

    Admit the hypocrisy of this country, people!

  • March 18, 2008

    11:11 AM

    Devlin writes:

    Obama's speech today was monumental - he is clearly destined for greatness.

    No other Presidential candidate of the past 20 years is capable of delivering such a substantial, powerful and honest speech.

    America needs a change from the same old tired liars that have littered government for the past couple of decades, and Barrack Obama is clearly the man to bring it.

  • March 18, 2008

    11:25 AM

    Shaggy writes:

    JW,
    I'm not voting for prom queen.
    You guys are voting for a plastic rock star..

  • March 18, 2008

    11:30 AM

    Obama must be known for the company he keeps writes:

    Obama's speech was the most manipulative, more of the same, shuckin', jivin' baloney he's put out all along--only in "mainstream, appeal to the media" terms. And no excuses will work for him this time. Do not be fooled. Obama is not the person for president. Believe it.

  • March 18, 2008

    11:32 AM

    jay writes:

    shaggy, on the contrary, jw has established that he uses the candidate's policy stances/track record to make his voting decision.

    you, on the other hand have consistently proven time and time again that you do not.

    stop running and answer the question and prove us wrong

    what accomplishments of the bush administration excited you enough to warrant a vote for a third term under mccain?

    but hey....at least you're signing a name instead of using far right wing slogans

  • March 18, 2008

    11:38 AM

    Martin Flagler writes:

    Prominant African American pundits from all sides of the political spectrum have debunked the "Liberation Gospel" otherwise known as racist hatespeach for which The Most Rev. Wridiculous is best known.

    We are all sad to see that Obama tried to defend that bigoted ideology in a vain effort to rehabilitate his failing candidacy. His motivations now are entirely self-serving, despite his protestations to the contrary.

    Empty, dishonest suit.

  • March 18, 2008

    11:43 AM

    primafacie writes:

    This isn't just about what the Rev. Wright spews (apparently only when Barack Obama isn't in attendance, since he's claimed not to have heard his bile). It's about a 20-year association with a church whose stated purpose is to provide a "Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community," which "unashamedly" promotes a "black theology" in the pastor's own words.

    Interesting. There would be no question of bigotry in a church that advertised a "White worship service" and "white theology" to "address the White Community." The videos making the rounds show a congregation that clearly has heard Wright's bilge before, cheering in the aisles and in agreement. That's fine. They aren't running for president.

    Barack Obama is. As long as he's associated with a church that promotes racial separatism and hatred, what does that say about his values? Tf he's not in agreement with it, what is he getting out of that relationship? And if it's merely a political advantage, doesn't that tell us something?

  • March 18, 2008

    11:45 AM

    KW writes:

    -- Barack Obama, Huffington Post, March 14, 2008:

    "The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation."

    -- Barack Obama, Today's Speach, March 18, 2008:

    "Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes."


  • March 18, 2008

    11:48 AM

    Shelby Steele Nails Obama writes:

    Here we go: Shelby Steele, himself, like Obama--of "mixed racial heritage" gets it on about Obama:

    Shelby Steele Wall Street Journal March 18, 2008

    ...nothing could be more dangerous to Mr. Obama's political aspirations than the revelation that he, the son of a white woman, sat Sunday after Sunday -- for 20 years -- in an Afrocentric, black nationalist church in which his own mother, not to mention other whites, could never feel comfortable. His pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, is a challenger who goes far past Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson in his anti-American outrage ("God damn America").

    How does one "transcend" race in this church? The fact is that Barack Obama has fellow-traveled with a hate-filled, anti-American black nationalism all his adult life, failing to stand and challenge an ideology that would have no place for his own mother. And what portent of presidential judgment is it to have exposed his two daughters for their entire lives to what is, at the very least, a subtext of anti-white vitriol?

    What could he have been thinking? Of course he wasn't thinking. He was driven by insecurity, by a need to "be black" despite his biracial background. And so fellow-traveling with a little race hatred seemed a small price to pay for a more secure racial identity. And anyway, wasn't this hatred more rhetorical than real?

    But now the floodlight of a presidential campaign has trained on this usually hidden corner of contemporary black life: a mindless indulgence in a rhetorical anti-Americanism as a way of bonding and of asserting one's blackness. Yet Jeremiah Wright, splashed across America's television screens, has shown us that there is no real difference between rhetorical hatred and real hatred.

    No matter his ultimate political fate, there is already enough pathos in Barack Obama to make him a cautionary tale. His public persona thrives on a manipulation of whites (bargaining), and his private sense of racial identity demands both self-betrayal and duplicity. His is the story of a man who flew so high, yet neglected to become himself.

  • March 18, 2008

    11:50 AM

    benn writes:

    Those aren't contradictory comments KW. The first is a reference to specific comments by Wright, the second is a reference to 'controversial comments' by Wright.

  • March 18, 2008

    11:50 AM

    Stone Cold writes:

    Obama's speech gives the Conservative Media something to dwell on today... something to focus on OTHER than the failing economy.

    How important is the economy? Ask the 44,000 people who are employed at either Bear Sterns or Delta Airlines.

    Of course, we'll hear far MORE about what "Barack Obama's pastor said or did not say" than we will about the very serious signs of the failure of the GOP economy.

    And of couurse, at the end of the day, the Right-Wingers will cap it off by complaining about how "liberal" the media is.

    It's really very pathetic....

  • March 18, 2008

    11:52 AM

    Anonymous writes:

    Duplicity, self-aggrandizement, win at all costs, and LieLieLie when cornered.

    These are Democratic Ideals.

    (burp)

    Any more Cheetos?

  • March 18, 2008

    12:00 PM

    Anonymous writes:

    Duplicity, self-aggrandizement, win at all costs, and LieLieLie when cornered.

    These are Republican Ideals.

    (burp)

    Any more Cheetos?

  • March 18, 2008

    12:00 PM

    am 760 writes:

    To the 3 or 4 right wingers who keep posting the same tired old shit, WAKE UP.
    The posts from the left are very well thought out and reflect some critical thinking abilities.

    The posts from the right are the same old emotional rants that have driving the repub party for 50 years.

    God will you people every learn.

    That speech was incredible. The man is brilliant beyond his years. Its scary to those on the right I guess to have someone of color who is smarter than them.

    Go john mcsame.

  • March 18, 2008

    12:05 PM

    J Marvin is an idiot writes:

    Will jay please stop posting his cheerleader snippets under random names to give the impression that real people support what Obama has done?

    Morning talk radio is a failed enterprise - remember Air America?

    Liberal talk radio hosts are spoiled children who can't take the heat they are so famous for giving.

    Those bunions are obviously very painful now that the shoe is on the other foot.

    Morons.

  • March 18, 2008

    12:05 PM

    am 760 writes:

    Shag, you know what would be really presidential on mccains part.
    First visit the vets in Walter Reid.
    Second, have a clue about the economy.

    Did anyone see Saturday Night Live this last saturday. Loved the Breaking News part where they stated, Mccain is Old, hilarious. Maybe tree or someone can post if from Youtube.

  • March 18, 2008

    12:07 PM

    KW writes:

    benn - You forget that before Obama made the first statement, the media had been airing a multitude of various quotes from many different sermons. They weren't just playing the same sermon over and over.

    So exactly now which "specific" comments was Obama referring to?

  • March 18, 2008

    12:09 PM

    benn writes:

    I don't think Jay is 'Jay Marvin.... unless 'Jay Marvin' is also a recruiter...

  • March 18, 2008

    12:11 PM

    Anonymous writes:

    Jay=Benn=StoneCold=am666, and so on.

    Same garbage, same trashcan.

  • March 18, 2008

    12:11 PM

    jay writes:

    idiot, yes....you're absolutely right...we're all involved in a conspiracy put together to make you look like an uneducated dunce.

    funny that the one thing i don't see from the far right today is any mention whatsoever of policy stances of obama's that would prove their tinfoil hat conspiracy theories about his "racism". I could be wrong, but i'm pretty sure the far right is done talking about track records and policy stances for the rest of the year....it's just not good for their team.

    kw, benn's right...he's talking about two different things....but i'm sure Rush didn't mention that...

  • March 18, 2008

    12:22 PM

    Shaggy writes:

    jay,
    Doesn't matter what Bush's track record is.
    He's the best out of the three for Americas future...
    If Romney is his side ticket, I will gladly jump on board because he is the most educated and experienced on economy issues.

    I still encourage Obama and Hillary to continue the dog and pony show though...Maybe they will continue it until they get here.....

  • March 18, 2008

    12:32 PM

    JW writes:

    Just four days ago, Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, said that “no one” in the U.S. and Iraqi governments “feels that there has been sufficient progress by any means in the area of national reconciliation,” or in the provision of basic public services.

    As it turns out, “no one” doesn’t include John McCain, who feels there’s been plenty of progress…

    “Anybody who believes the surge has not succeeded, militarily, politically and in most other ways, frankly, does not know the facts on the ground.”

    … nor does it include Dick Cheney, who apparently sees political progress Petraeus doesn’t.

    U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney on Monday declared the 2003 U.S.-led invasion of Iraq a “successful endeavor,” pointing to security and political progress on a visit ahead of the fifth anniversary of the war.

  • March 18, 2008

    12:33 PM

    Reggie writes:

    I'm black and old enough to have lived through the ugliest flash-points of the Civil Rights ere while residing in the South. I remember being told by my mother and grandmother to NEVER look white folks in the eyes too long, to NEVER say anything to a white person unless they speak to you, to get off the sidewalk if white folks needed to pass, I drank from colored only water fountains, I was taught early in life that my black skin was a problem and I had to fear white reactions to it.

    As the generations have passed people who've never had those types of firsthand experiences lost context with the realities of overt and often violent racism to the extent that black grievances were treated as nothing more than bellyaching and/or wanting special treatment just for nothing.

    We live in a dysfunctional family environment here in America where some of the offspring have endured the most inhumane treatment imaginable. It should not surprise any of the family members that lingering feelings of hurt and anger remain, and until we give a damn enough to listen without a critical ear, open to the grievances of others, we'll remain stuck blaming and denying.

    Rev. Wright's passion spoke truthfully to my generations painful experiences, they call it black rage as if anyone who endures a lifetime in a dysfunctional family needs to have their rage marginalized and pigeon holed as something outside normal behavior.

    To my white friends, stop treating racism as something you want to simply go away, as though if blacks would just stop bringing it up things wouldn't be so bad. LISTEN with openness and trust that what you hear is real and not the machinations of people too thin skinned for their own good.

    To my black friends, blaming the white man is old news, recognizing the legacy of racism in America and that it's still alive and well is no excuse for self-defeatism, self-degradation and nihilism.

    Let's talk about race as if our very survival depends on arriving at a place where we can put to rest the old.

  • March 18, 2008

    12:34 PM

    Tbone writes:

    Actually, guys, I am jay.

    I've been posting as him for over a year now and you still havent caught on.

    I'm also JW. See how there a similar letter? That was a clue. I'm also JMH.

    I'm also JHM. And am760. And Old_Grouch. And Richard Grimes. And Charles B.

    Maybe its time to loosen the tinfoil hats a bit. The 19%'ers sure are getting desperate.

  • March 18, 2008

    12:36 PM

    Shaggy writes:

    Funny how Ohhhhhbama chose to deliver his speech in the town holding the next round of votes.
    He was using this time for more exposer..it worked too...now even more people woke up to the fact he kept this racist bastard in his life for 20 years.

    Keep talking about it Ohhhhbama...keep your racist, anti-America, hate whitey hand selected spiritual adviser of 20 years in the spotlight....

  • March 18, 2008

    12:37 PM

    benn writes:

    To my white friends, stop treating racism as something you want to simply go away, as though if blacks would just stop bringing it up things wouldn't be so bad. LISTEN with openness and trust that what you hear is real and not the machinations of people too thin skinned for their own good.

    To my black friends, blaming the white man is old news, recognizing the legacy of racism in America and that it's still alive and well is no excuse for self-defeatism, self-degradation and nihilism.

    Very well put Reggie

  • March 18, 2008

    12:43 PM

    JW writes:

    New poll out today says both Hillary and Obama are statistically tied against McCain.

    Reasons to support this guy over Hillary are disappearing because of this non issue, simply because we dont know how many non issues there are about him. Its really too bad it got nasty between them. Clinton/Obama would smash McCain in my opinion, though there are no poll numbers to support that as of yet.

  • March 18, 2008

    12:55 PM

    jayisanidiot writes:

    What took you so long to generate a timely first person accord of the relevant topic of the day?

    Try to keep up jayhole, we all wait with baited breath for your "I'm a black preacher" post any time now.

  • March 18, 2008

    1:00 PM

    Chris writes:

    The real issue is that Obama has Swiftboated HIMSELF with the help of Mrs. Racist and their lobotomized preacher.

    No wonder the libbies are uppity today. The deja-vu is overwhelming.

  • March 18, 2008

    1:00 PM

    Jana writes:

    This speech contains the most intelligent and realistic portrayal of racial problems in America today that I have ever heard articulated by a major living political figure. This man, Barack Obama, loves his country, not in a "love it or leave it" way, but in a deeper, more accepting way. He wants to challenge us Americans to form the "more perfect union" our Constitution promises, not just close their eyes and see no evil.

    The stories of his family, his community and his church are familiar to those of us who have had parents say things about blacks and Jews and Italians and gays and others that reflect an anger and bitterness that we do not have. Yet, we still love them and they us.

    This is the America I want to live in. One that faces up to its contradictions and tries its best to work together to make a more perfect country for everyone.

  • March 18, 2008

    1:04 PM

    JMH writes:

    Wow, the right-wing nuts are out in full force today (though I suspect that most of the posts are from just a few people using multiple names)... Ya know what is funny, the people who are crying about Obama's church's "hatred" are the same people who support the right-wing evangical hatred of gays, liberals, blacks ,etc., etc.

    The truth is, Obama showed more balls and intelligence in this one speech than we have gotten from every GOP politician for the last 20 years. I for one would be very proud to have this man leading our country, he gets it...

    I can give a hoot about the nonsense coming from the 19%ers on this site. They are all scared little girls afraid of anything differenet than them. They are the racists. That is why they want to keep picking at this. They have nothing else... no good leaders with any real ideas, no accomplishemnets to run on, they have given us nothing but failure with EVERY policy they have supported the last 7 years.

    So Neo-Cons, keep trying to "swift-boat" Obama, it isn't going to work this time. This is no John Kerry. Obama just confronted this whole thing head on and hit it out of the park. This man didn't run and hide, he didn't suger coat anything, he stood up and told it like it was. Must scare the hell out of the Neo-Cons as they know know they are facing a fighter and a man of integrity. I can tell by some of the posts that the Neo-Con America haters are wetting themselves right now. Your dirty tricks will work no more!

    P.S.
    Shaggy, quit being a wuss and answer jay's question. I know you don't have anything but do us all a favor and try to spin some BS out. I need a laugh today!

  • March 18, 2008

    1:07 PM

    Anonymous writes:

    You were not on the list Tbone. But you chose a phrase that only jay uses to make your point.

    Thanks for the update. Next time read a little more carefully.

  • March 18, 2008

    1:10 PM

    Anonymous writes:

    Today is a very Rough day for Obama-hating Racists, Bigots and neoCONs.

    Today's speech pretty much clinched the elction for Obama, and the Haters know it.

  • March 18, 2008

    1:15 PM

    Shaggy writes:

    jayisanidiot,
    Be nice to jay...he is one the mentally challenged among us.....I wished they had a handi-cap icon on his keyboard that he could put next to his name so everyone would know.

  • March 18, 2008

    1:15 PM

    Chris writes:

    Too funny. Left Loons are circling the wagons big time now that the cat is out of the bag. The base is splitting, the national committee is in a mexican standoff with two state delegations, Hillary has positioned snipers and is ready to repeat her offer to let Obama be No.2.

    This is much better than HBO.

  • March 18, 2008

    1:16 PM

    OH writes:

    Pastor Wright served his country in the US Marines, period.

  • March 18, 2008

    1:17 PM

    Hogar De Vuelta (العودة) aka ignorant strawman warmonger racist withsome friends writes:

    I have no tolerance for racism of any kind. Obama and Wright are racists who ignore real problems, while trying to take advantage of white guilt for their own benefit. The following link shows a statistic that is largely ignored by the black community, or like Obama and Wright, they try to twist the statistic to say something that only a crazy person could believe.

    http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/ovracetab.htm

  • March 18, 2008

    1:20 PM

    Miss Kay writes:

    I depair for us all when an intelligent, humble call for reason and love results in such acrimony.

  • March 18, 2008

    1:20 PM

    R writes:

    When Obama is elected it could give me the first geniune feeling of mature pride for this country that I've felt in my lifetime.

    I was born after World War II, after the moon landings, I've lived in an America that has been complacent, that has slept at the world table all while many of us have rested on the laurels our fathers and grandfathers.

    Obama represents a new America one that transcends black and white, Democrat or Republican, right or left.

    We are at a pivotal crossroads, the time is now.

  • March 18, 2008

    1:26 PM

    history buff writes:

    I just read Shelby Steele's article in the WSJ. What a pile of crap. Mr. Steele sees Mr. Obama as nothing more than a manipulator of white guilt. Here is how it works, according to Steele, who works for the Hoover think tank, apparently an organization that pays people to invent new lies.

    White people feel guilty about America's racist past, so they look for black people who tell them they are not guilty of the past. In exchange for assuring whites of their innocence, whites will reward the black person who rids them of guilt by electing him president, or a making him a movie star, or a celebrity. I'm surprised he didn't say that Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods also are in the same class of manipulators.

    The sad part about Mr. Steele, like Clarence Thomas and Linda Chavez, he wouldn't be a success if it wasn't for his ethnic identity. Unlike Mr. Obama, an authentic political candidate who has been elected by the people of Illinois to the Senate, it is Mr. Steele who is being used by reactionaries to assure white people that there are no racial problems in this country.

    Mr. Steele is talking about himself, not Mr. Obama.

  • March 18, 2008

    1:30 PM

    JW writes:

    Hogar,

    There is no evidence that Obama himself is a racist. If you read his speech, hes pretty damn clear about that.

    Additionally, I think at this point hes damn well PROVEN he doesnt 'ignore issues'.

    Now, you can disagree with his policies and what not, and that is legit. But this "Guilt by association" crap dont fly. Its just another way for you to justify your hatred of any Democrat, without having to face the fact that you just...hate...Democrats.

    Not because they lie.
    Not because of who they associate with.
    Not because they "tax and spend".
    Not because they do all the ear marks.
    Not because they are weak on defense.


    These are the EXCUSES you use. You write a pass for any Republican guilty of the same things, which means these things are NOT what really makes you mad.

    What really makes you mad is, quite simple....

    (D)

    Thats all it takes. One letter denoting party. After that, its all just rhetoric.


    BTW, I would encourage you to read the text of his speech above. It was...impressive.

  • March 18, 2008

    1:32 PM

    Anonymous writes:

    Pastor Wright is a Christian who served America by being a Marine - which is FAR more than we can say about George W. Bush or Dick Cheney.

  • March 18, 2008

    1:37 PM

    It's Duck Season writes:

    I'm not buying into Obamas spew.....this was all just a political move, nothing more, nothing less.

    He fooled the less intelligent people while the more intelligent people saw right through his BS.
    Maybe this is why his numbers are so high among Liberals...the less intelligent ones.

    If it walks like a Duck and Quacks like a Duck it is probably a Duck....

  • March 18, 2008

    1:39 PM

    jay writes:

    "He's the best out of the three for Americas future..."

    but what accomplishments of the bush administration record leads you to believe that a third term is "the best...for america's future"?

    be careful shaggy, you're close to actually answering the question you've dodged for over a week now

  • March 18, 2008

    1:42 PM

    JW writes:

    "If it walks like a Duck and Quacks like a Duck it is probably a Duck...."

    Unless of course its a friend of Dick Cheney. Then you shoot it in the face.

  • March 18, 2008

    1:43 PM

    Anonymous writes:

    Oh, yea, 1:37. You're a regular rocket scientist. NOT!

  • March 18, 2008

    2:08 PM

    jay writes:

    don't feed the trolls people...you'll just encourage them

  • March 18, 2008

    2:14 PM

    Shaggy writes:

    You know what jay...your right...I'm gonna vote for who ever wins the Democratic nomination instead of voting for who I think will be the best leader.....would that be better?

    I think Obama would do a fine job pleading with Iran after they take over Iraq and control the middle east and it's oil while they stock pile Nukes in the mean time.
    Maybe he could make a speech and have them throw away their nukes, lower our gas prices and become our friends.
    Then we all could put diapers on our heads like Obama.

  • March 18, 2008

    2:14 PM

    Ardie writes:

    "to form a more perfect union" (President Abraham Lincoln) entails that our original union was imperfect; that we were a tenuous union at best but that, hopefully, over time the union would grow stronger. This is what President Lincoln saw whereas the majority of Americans were not yet prepared for the long struggle of perfecting a union for all. Only a few understood the heroic task.
    After the Civil War, slaves were no longer slaves--like their poor white counterparts they became wage slaves. Women couldn't vote. They were slaves to their husbands. And many died during childbirth.

    Immigrants poured into America during the 19th century to work in America's sweat shops. It was brutally hard work. If a worker hurt himself he was fired. Older workers used shoe polish to hide their graying hair. If they had gray hair often they were fired. This was life in America as her people struggled to form a more perfect union waging a battle against those who saw the many as the vanquished and themselves as conquerors--and the fittest few.

    The core of this struggle has not changed--we all want a more perfect union. And right now we see Wall Street getting its needs met while the rest of America faces an economic crisis as never before. Obama's words were visionary and insightful. We still must struggle against those who would make us slaves if they could.

  • March 18, 2008

    2:17 PM

    Jane writes:

    Obama's words make me proud to a citizen of this country.

  • March 18, 2008

    2:18 PM

    Anonymous writes:

    It really means we need Bill Clinton and his Cigars back in the whitehouse.

    Bill from Harlem who can balance the budget. Fix Iraq and bring back Ruben.
    lets get Bill back

  • March 18, 2008

    2:20 PM

    Hogar De Vuelta (العودة) aka ignorant strawman warmonger racist withsome friends writes:

    JW,

    Here is the written vision that Obama's church is committed to you.

    A congregation committed to ADORATION.
    Sounds good, but who do they adore?

    A congregation preaching SALVATION.
    Sounds good, but what do they mean?

    A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
    Sounds good, but who is being reconciled to whom?

    A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
    If any church made a statement that they had a non-negotiable committment to Europe, they would be instantly crucified by the media. This a statement of division, not reconciliation.

    A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
    Sounds good, but Jeremiah Wright sure could use some Biblical education to replace his fiery racist rhetoric.

    A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
    The Bible claims to transcend all culture, so cultural education is anti-Biblical.

    A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
    So everyone else is on their own, is that part of the plan for reconciliation?

    A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
    Sounds good, but what do they mean?

    A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
    Sounds good, but what do they mean?

    A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.
    Sounds like communism to me.

    Obama's church has a stated vision that is vectoring toward segregation not reconciliation. His rhetoric does not correspond with some of the stated vision of his church of twenty years, and his "I never heard Jeremiah say any bad words, reeks of the "I did not inhale" line. I could and never would attend a church with a vision like Obama's and for Obama to try to distance himself from an intimate 20 year relationship is just fraud.

    A short little speach no matter how flowery does not erase a 20 year association with a racist whacko who thinks the goverment released the AIDS virus to kill black men and the government knew the Japanese were coming on December 7 and did nothing about it.

    Where are your critical thinking skills today?

  • March 18, 2008

    2:24 PM

    Shaggy writes:

    HaHaHA...This just in...New Yorks NEW Governor of ONE day, Yes ONE day has come out and said he has had several affairs on his wife....OMG...You Democrats sure like to follow in Clintons coat tails....

    http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/mar/18/ny-guv-divulges-extramarital-affairs/

  • March 18, 2008

    2:26 PM

    Where's Harry Truman Now That We Really Need Him? writes:

    Obama's main claim to fame in today's speech thus far--spoken in somber phony sincerity: "I am married to a black woman, and my father is black". . .well duh. So we should vote for him just because he's. . .black? THAT's audacity, folks. What's even more audacious is that Obama hangs tough with his racist pastor, and thinks nobody cares? That's audacity, folks.

  • March 18, 2008

    2:27 PM

    jay writes:

    still dodging the question shag?

    "You know what jay...your right...I'm gonna vote for who ever wins the Democratic nomination instead of voting for who I think will be the best leader.....would that be better?"

    no, i want you to consider the policy stances of each candidate and make your decision based on the best information available. why would you choose your candidate any other way?

    "I think Obama would do a fine job pleading with Iran after they take over Iraq and control the middle east and it's oil while they stock pile Nukes in the mean time."

    well if you're upset that iran is jostling for a piece of the iraq pie (like every other nation of consequence on the planet) then you should be more interested in someone besides the republicans running the show...for it was their incompetence and strategic mistakes that allowed the widely predicted power vacuum to take place that has put us in this clusterfuck. furthermore, the current and future republican method of dealing with iran, syria, north korea, etc (disengagement) has been a proven failure...so again...what about that track record excites you enough to see it continued under mcbush?

    "Maybe he could make a speech and have them throw away their nukes, lower our gas prices and become our friends.
    Then we all could put diapers on our heads like Obama."

    or maybe we could for once listen to the experts in our own military, intelligence and diplomatic communities instead of failing horribly because of myopic group think...gee...that would be a welcome change, no?

    again shaggy...stop running and answer the question....what accomplishments of the bush regime excites you enough to warrant a vote for a third term under capt combover?

    this isn't a trick question or anything...and it really isn't that hard...but it does happen to be the best way to get you to understand that up to this point in your life, you just might be a partisan hack.

  • March 18, 2008

    2:28 PM

    Tough Week for Righty writes:

    A tough week for Rightys is about to get worse - the smart money says that the Justices will render a verdict that will re-interpret the "right to bear arms", restricting the right to "militias" only.

    Rednecks in the Appalachian States, and the gangbangers of LA are going to go crazy.

  • March 18, 2008

    2:31 PM

    Anonymous writes:

    The support and backing of Barrack Hussein Obama is proof positive of mental retardation.

  • March 18, 2008

    2:35 PM

    Chris writes:

    The predictable implosion of the Democratic Party is right on schedule.

    The internal split in the party of tolerance (what a supreme joke) is widening. The racist back and forth is ramping up to a frenzy. The Convention fracas promises to be nothing less than a free for all flail, with voter disenfranchisement elevated to an art form by the folks who invented it.

    And all of this - all of this mayhem is self-induced. That is what amazes me. Nowhere on the liberal radar is the "vast right wing conspiracy" because there never has been one. It has been the schizophrenic lefty lunatics all along, feigning indignation at the scrutiny they have brought upon themselves for being so incredibly stupid and sloppy.

    This will only get better.... stay tuned.

  • March 18, 2008

    2:35 PM

    Anonymous writes:

    2:31... you spelled "George W Bush' wrong.

  • March 18, 2008

    2:36 PM

    We shall know Obama by the company he keeps writes:

    So we should ignore the fact that Obama's hate-filled, racist friend, confidant, advisor, and pastor, for crying out loud, is someone Obama is very close to? No, No, No! It's in the bible! We need to KNOW Obama BY THE COMPANY HE KEEPS! We need to be aware that Obama is a great speaker, and can do well in the pulpit, which is where he belongs, not president of the United States.

  • March 18, 2008

    2:37 PM

    history buff writes:

    2:28

    I read an analysis of the right to bear arms case and it said the court will hold that individuals have a constitutional right to possess firearms subject to reasonable police power of government, then they will kick the back to the lower court to decide how to balance the legitimate rights of individuals vs. communities based on the guidelines established by the Supreme Court.

  • March 18, 2008

    2:41 PM

    We shall know Obama by the company he keeps writes:

    So we should ignore the fact that Obama's hate-filled, racist friend, confidant, advisor, and pastor, for crying out loud, is someone Obama is very close to? No, No, No! It's in the bible! We need to KNOW Obama BY THE COMPANY HE KEEPS! We need to be aware that Obama is a great speaker, and can do well in the pulpit, which is where he belongs, not as president of the United States.

  • March 18, 2008

    2:41 PM

    Ben -Former Democrat writes:

    Tough Week, You must be pretty naive to stereotype Appalachian Americans and gangbangers as the only gunowners in America. Gun ownership transcends all classes and races and an indiviudal's right to have and own guns is as fundamental free speech. The Amendments all refer to individual rights. So suddenly there was a hiccup when our forefathers wrote them and the 2nd suddenly turned into a collective right? I don't think so.

  • March 18, 2008

    2:44 PM

    Shaggy writes:

    LoL jay,
    Should we have just left Saddam so he could continue his mass genocide with weapons of mass destruction?

    Oh I forgot that you don't consider these people worthy of saving like you do illegals pilfering America.

    Who is best to handle foreign affairs---McCain
    Who is best to fight terrorism---McCain
    Who is best to fix our economy---Romney
    Who is best to secure victory in Iraq--McCain
    Who is the least experienced---Obama
    Who has the least experience on foreign matters---Obama
    Who would the terrorists like to see as the next President---Obama

  • March 18, 2008

    2:48 PM

    Stone Cold writes:

    Today is the most entertaining day in politics I've seen in years.

    You can always measure how truly scared the Right is by turning on the radio. Since virtually every AM "talk" station is owned and controlled by the Right, AM radio is the voice of the Right.

    And today, that voice is truly terrified.

    On the heels of our sobering economic news - which was already a death blow for the Right and it's failed economic agenda - Obama's brilliant speech this morning was the figurative pile of dirt on top of their grave.

    The Rightys will get smoked - badly - in November. That's not news, it's been known for some time- but the past 48 hours have cemented the deal.

    Turn on your AM radio - you'll see what I mean. Every talk host today is soiling themself, possibly literally. It's nothing but hate, hate, hate, hate. Rush is going to neeed to double his illicit Narcotics dosage. Laura Ingraham is ready to jump off a bridge. Anne Colter is undoubtedly torturing small animals in some room, then eating them.

    It's a VERY entertaining day, and I cannot stop smiling!


    GOD BLESS AMERICA!

  • March 18, 2008

    2:49 PM

    Obama can buffalo the media, not the American people writes:

    Shelby Steele, a black intellectual, writes in the Wall Street Journal today of Obama:

    "...nothing could be more dangerous to Mr. Obama's political aspirations than the revelation that he, the son of a white woman, sat Sunday after Sunday -- for 20 years -- in an Afrocentric, black nationalist church in which his own mother, not to mention other whites, could never feel comfortable.

    His pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, is a challenger who goes far past Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson in his anti-American outrage ("God damn America").
    How does one "transcend" race in this church? The fact is that Barack Obama has fellow-traveled with a hate-filled, anti-American black nationalism all his adult life, failing to stand and challenge an ideology that would have no place for his own mother. And what portent of presidential judgment is it to have exposed his two daughters for their entire lives to what is, at the very least, a subtext of anti-white vitriol?

    What could he have been thinking? Of course he wasn't thinking. He was driven by insecurity, by a need to "be black" despite his biracial background. And so fellow-traveling with a little race hatred seemed a small price to pay for a more secure racial identity. And anyway, wasn't this hatred more rhetorical than real?"

  • March 18, 2008

    2:51 PM

    jay writes:

    shaggy...we've debunked that right wing myth a thousand times...why would you think it would still fly here?

    so are you going to tell us what accomplishments of the bush administration excite you enough to vote for a third term or are you going to continue to run from me like a little girl?

  • March 18, 2008

    2:58 PM

    Funny writes:

    Ben,

    Honestly, did you have the same outrage when McCain's priest buddy slammed Catholics? How about when Robertson called for killing another president? When that triple chinned, and now in hell, Falwell blamed 9/11 on gay people and, gulp, "liberals"? Maybe you winced but you surely didn't act like the world was being turned upside down like now. What's the difference? Well, whoever you listen to (whatever AM radio simpleton tells you what to think) wasn't creating a PR campaign for you then. See, they know that they don't have to come up with things like HEALTHCARE policy for you to back their candidate. Or an economic policy that is realistic and will change some of the structural problems with the economy (there are many), or that can benefit the general public and not the corporate elite. They don't have to come up with a sound foreign policy (other than promising you they'll bomb a bunch of people they claim are a danger to you, PLEASE don’t read up if they actually are or what root causes do exist, trust them).

    Simple question: Do you hold the candidates and each party to the same standards? If so, which third party are you voting for this election?

    What you are doing, well not you since someone else is thinking FOR you, is making a huge deal out of a relatively minor issue. Again, nothing he said was racist. It was a harsh critique against US domestic policy, factually based, and you as a Republican have no leg to stand on in regards to religious preachers attacking a group of people. Period, you fake outrage doesn’t work like it did ten years ago, the issues this country are facing are too big to let children like you ignore them for this PR created nonsense.

    You are either stupid (because you’d waste all this energy not on actual issues but campaign fluff like this) and are being taken advantage of by the Limbaugh’s of the world or you’re hoping everyone else is and can fall for your fake outrage.

  • March 18, 2008

    3:00 PM

    Shaggy writes:

    Did you read the list I just posted as to my reasons for voting for McCain?
    Bush isn't running for a third term..

  • March 18, 2008

    3:02 PM

    Anonymous writes:

    Some of the comments here are just downright horrible. Or is this just the American way, to express venomous points of view with a snarl in the lip and unnecessary sarcasm? The 'ugly American' rears it's head. Reading some of these comments leaves one under no illusion as to where this expression stemmed from. Good luck, I used to respect your country but the last 6 years has given me cause to re-evaluate my position.

  • March 18, 2008

    3:03 PM

    just sayin' writes:

    another good reason not to go to church

  • March 18, 2008

    3:04 PM

    Anonymous writes:

    Some of the comments here are just downright horrible. Or is this just the American way, to express venomous points of view with a snarl in the lip and unnecessary sarcasm? The 'ugly American' rears it's head. Reading some of these comments leaves one under no illusion as to where this expression stemmed from. Good luck, I used to respect your country but the last 6 years has given me cause to re-evaluate my position.

  • March 18, 2008

    3:07 PM

    jay writes:

    "Did you read the list I just posted as to my reasons for voting for McCain?
    Bush isn't running for a third term.."

    shaggy we've already debunked that right wing myth too....dude...give it up...you're cornered. mccain's policy stances dovetail EXACTLY into a third bush term....now...are you going to continue to run from me like the nerd in gym class or are you just going to give us those bush accomplishments that make you want more of the same under mccain?

  • March 18, 2008

    3:14 PM

    just sayin' writes:

    another good reason not to go to church

  • March 18, 2008

    3:14 PM

    Wilber writes:

    “Should we have just left Saddam so he could continue his mass genocide with weapons of mass destruction?”
    Do you know that every single WMD & bio agent he had was given to him by the US? This isn’t an “anti-American”, leftist conspiracy theory, it’s a fact acknowledged by our own government. We actually INCREASED our funding to him after his worse atrocities. We also brought his scientists to Oregon in 1989 to TEACH them how to make WMD. Who did this? The right wing under Reagan. I’m sorry, you were in the middle of a fact less, mindless, stupid talking point.
    “Who is best to handle foreign affairs---McCain
    Who is best to fight terrorism---McCain
    Who is best to fix our economy---Romney
    Who is best to secure victory in Iraq--McCain
    Who is the least experienced---Obama
    Who has the least experience on foreign matters---Obama
    Who would the terrorists like to see as the next President---Obama”
    Now this is gold. “Best to handle foreign affairs – McCain”. Solid argument, you said his name. Forget the fact that every single policy he’s backed since Bush took over has been a disaster. Forget that Iraq will be much worse off when we leave then when we invaded, killed over a million Iraqis, steal their oil and drops thousands of pounds of depleted uranium on them. Looking at the effects of Bush’s policies on the standing of the US worldwide, what do you think McCain would do to correct that? What policies, that are OBVIOUS losers, do you see him changing once he takes power?
    Best to fix our economy – Romney. Again, solid argument. You can type TWO people’s names. You should give a speech about the economy, it would be one word, after which you can ask for questions. “I’m here to talk about the economy…Romney. Any questions?” Articulate what makes Romney qualified to handle the lions share of the US economy? Also explain how a VP, and not the Federal Reserve, would control the economy anyway. The Fed is what determines what governmental policies are possible in the first place.
    You can’t be as stupid as your posts indicate. Then again, you’re voting for McCain after 8 years of Bush, so you can’t be THAT bright.

  • March 18, 2008

    3:22 PM

    Not from Wyoming writes:

    Shaggy-
    I don't know why you have been calling Obama a racist for the last month.
    Have you looked in the mirror? I'm calling you out.
    You hate all minorities Shaggy. And I think this whole blog community would agree. Your post are hateful and demeaning. It's the majority people like you that have ruined this country, especially the public school systems.

    Hey Shagman, if you want to say Bullshit. Feel free to start life over as a black man in this country and take a little what you dish out.

  • March 18, 2008

    3:27 PM

    John McSame 2008 writes:

    I've never been to church, er, I've never been to a church where the pastor condemns America with his words.

    So, vote for me.

    Signed, John McSame

  • March 18, 2008

    3:27 PM

    am 760 writes:

    The posts from the left make me proud to be an american. The posts from the right make me ashamed to be an american. So much hate and ignorance from our brothers and sisters on the right.
    Wasn't there a study awhile back that actually showed that conservatives brains are wired differently and thats why they can't critically think or comprehend basic concepts.

    http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-politics10sep10,0,5982337.story?coll=la-home-center

  • March 18, 2008

    3:33 PM

    am 760 writes:

    Wilbur, great post, but that is way to complicated for shag and the other righties to follow. Keep it to a 3rd grade level and you might have some luck.
    JMH, Jay, Benn, jw great posts as usual along w/ many other great post from some newbies today, Good job people.

  • March 18, 2008

    3:38 PM

    Shaggy writes:

    "I don't know why you have been calling Obama a racist for the last month.
    Have you looked in the mirror? I'm calling you out."---03:22 PM

    LoL..You can call me out all you want...Just show me where I called Obama a racist!!!

    "You hate all minorities Shaggy."---03:22 PM

    Strawman fallacy....prove it dumbass


    "And I think this whole blog community would agree."---03:22 PM

    Again...Prove it

    "Your post are hateful and demeaning."---03:22 PM

    Sorry if the truth hurts..

    "It's the majority people like you that have ruined this country, especially the public school systems."---03:22 PM

    Not sure what you are trying to say but it is another strawman fallacy

    "Hey Shagman, if you want to say Bullshit."---03:22 PM

    Not sure what you are trying to say...again...take a deep breath and clear your thoughts first...loons have been known to explode.

    "Feel free to start life over as a black man in this country and take a little what you dish out"---03:22 PM

    Not sure how I can accomplish this.

  • March 18, 2008

    3:48 PM

    Winston writes:

    Shaggy, you aren't good at arguing...your points? Is that what they are? Well, they aren't yours. We've heard this stupid crap elsewhere, just articulated much, much better. So, you're kind of ok at articulating someone else's points, which happen to be historically and logically ignorant. Are you, a freaking REPUBLICAN, going to come on here and lecture people about being racist? What the hell upside-down world have we entered into? The only logical reason someone would spend this much time posting on a board is to convince someone to come to your side, that's the only reason I can see spending this much energy doing this and there is no way in hell anyone is going to vote for whoever you vote for acting the way you do. Honestly, it's amazing how immature most right wing radio heads are. People like you honestly think and argue like grade school children, and you do it with such bravado. What policies that people like you back have even freaking worked?! I mean, IF you going to have such bravado you'd think the policies you favor would at least work, otherwise what the hell are you so cocky about? That goes back to your intelligence though. People who aren’t bright don’t realize when they look incredibly stupid because, well, they aren’t bright.

  • March 18, 2008

    3:51 PM

    benn writes:

    Holy shit - Shaggy identified a real Strawman... it only took him 4 months to learn. Now, if only he could identify those in his own statements.

    Can we move onto your next logical fallacy Shag? We have a long way to go, you might actually learn them all by the time your retire.

  • March 18, 2008

    3:57 PM

    Shaggy writes:

    Hey Wilber,
    Did we force Saddam into killing his own people?
    Do you want to blame the U.S for that too?

    You must hate America just like Obamas hand picked spiritual adviser does.
    Hell you might be right up there with Ward Churchill, Louis Farrakhan, Rosie O', Sean Penn, George Clooney, Babs Streisand, Jane Fonda.....the looney list goes on and on and on and....

  • March 18, 2008

    4:03 PM

    just wondering writes:

    Um, how does anyone really KNOW who is "left" and who is "right" here?

    Long story short: Obama true colors have finally been exposed--and it's about time. The media has glossed over everything about this guy, and sheeple still think he's presidential material? Not a chance.

  • March 18, 2008

    4:03 PM

    Shaggy writes:

    Damn every time I turn around I get hen picked by a new flock of loons....

    Obama sure brought out the far left with his meaningless plastic speech....

  • March 18, 2008

    4:04 PM

    Hogar De Vuelta (العودة) aka ignorant strawman warmonger racist withsome friends writes:

    Wilber,

    The difference between our support of Saddam and and Obama's support of Wright is that we helped him when he was fighting our enemy, but when he started doing bad things, we turned against him. Obama has supported Wright for 20 years and only gave him a pre-school scolding when the hate filled worlds spilled out onto the world stage.

  • March 18, 2008

    4:04 PM

    Anonymous writes:

    Sooo good to see so many posters here speaking out today…this is exactly what is needed, more people involved and THINKING for themselves…

    Jay, you’ll NEVER get Shaggie to answer your question directly & besides (in his mind) he has answered you already…see his post @ 2:44…I loved the single word answers & he was very insightful with the line about WMD…lol…

    Also, I have wondered this for a long time, but I really believe Shaggie is Harry Palm...to those of you who have been around long enough to remember, didn't HP disappear about the time Shaggie appeared, I’m not sure but it sure seems that way…


    7:48

  • March 18, 2008

    4:12 PM

    Shaggy writes:

    7:48,
    Watch out for those black helicopters flying over you house tonight....They are coming to take you away he he ha ha ho ho hum hum back to the funny farm where life is beautiful all the time...hehehehe

  • March 18, 2008

    4:14 PM

    Anonymous writes:

    Winston-
    That's the beauty of being really dumb. You don't realize it. A good friend of mine, his older brother is really dumb. Can't take care of himself at 45 years old dumb. It doesn't bother him because he doesn't know any better.

  • March 18, 2008

    4:16 PM

    benn writes:

    7:48 - If you have been here long enough to know Harry Palm then why don't you nab yourself a name?

  • March 18, 2008

    4:18 PM

    Shaggy writes:

    Hog,
    An enemy of my enemy is my friend...right?

    That kind of thing has been going on for as long as Man kind has been around.

  • March 18, 2008

    4:24 PM

    jay writes:

    shag i'm never going to stop reminding you so you should just stop running and answer the question....

    ...still waiting...

  • March 18, 2008

    4:28 PM

    history buff writes:

    A sign of effective leadership is to show strength in a time of crisis. Senator Obama met that challenge today and demonstrated why he has the ability to be a great president.

    Race is the most polarizing issue in our society, yet Senator Obama took the bull by the horns. With strength and honesty, he spoke like most wish our politicians would speak.

    There will always be a contingent that will find fault in the man no matter what he does. They aren't the loyal opposition. They are the people who are opposed to America, because if they can't have their man in office and have things done their way, then they are against what the majority has decided. And because Obama's father was black, they will attempt to divide this country as it suits their purpose, using race to get under the skin of the public whenever possible. But we saw this morning that there is greatness is Senator Obama.

    America has been blessed because we have always found leadership in our greatest time of need.

    This is a great day for Senator Obama and a great day for America.

  • March 18, 2008

    4:31 PM

    Wilber writes:

    Ok, we’ll take this slow for you. Saddam killed his people with his own weapons. Reagan actually took Iraq off of the list of states that sponsor terror in order to give him the weapons and the bio agents. Without each he couldn’t have killed his people. The funding to Saddam by the right wing here increased after his worse atrocities, so obviously the right wing here wasn’t too concerned with his human rights violations. As a matter of fact, years after his worse atrocities his scientists were brought to Oregon, in 1989, to teach them how to make WMD’s. So you, as a right winger, are in no position to cite his atrocities as a justification for going into Iraq. He was a monster and he was a monster of your making. It’s the same nonsense I hear when backing Colombia vs. Venezuela. One country, according to every human rights organization in the world, has the worse human rights record in the Western Hemisphere and the other is a democracy and your side, like usual, picks the side of the violent killers, as a result of some geo-political chess game that you don’t take the time to understand.

    Did the US “force” him to gas his people? Well, lets say there is a known violent killer in your neighborhood. You give him weapons knowing how violent he is, he goes and kills people with the weapons YOU gave him. In addition, you INCREASE your weapons transfers to him after his worse killing and actually bring him to your house to teach him how to kill with more ferocity. Are you responsible for his violence? Of course you are, what type of stupid question is that?

    See, this is the problem with people like you, if facts make the US look bad it’s somehow the facts fault and not the US. Meanwhile people like you talk out you’re a$$ about things like personal responsibly. Yeah, personal financial matters, pull yourself up by your bootstrap. Big banks, give them multi billion dollar pay outs. Preach about “free trade” and competition then give gigantic subsidies (Reagan gave more big business subsides than all previous presidents COMBINED while talking about the wonders of the free market). Preach about the wonders of the “free market” then don’t create a single net private job in almost a full presidential term (most net jobs since Bush took over have been in the PUBLIC sector). The Republican Party knows people like you don’t read up on the subject so they don’t have to worry about being called out on their BS.

  • March 18, 2008

    4:38 PM

    benn writes:

    Another fabulous post HB.

  • March 18, 2008

    4:43 PM

    benn writes:

    Haha, Wilber - Please, make Rocky Talk Live a regular stop! Awesome post!

  • March 18, 2008

    4:55 PM

    Karl Leuba writes:

    That is one inspiring speech, and it was not made without risk.

    Finally someone saying what needs to be said without acrimony and fear. Obama, I cheer for your words.

    I'm a 66 year old white man, and I support Obama for Ashley.

  • March 18, 2008

    4:56 PM

    Karl Leuba writes:

    That is one inspiring speech, and it was not made without risk.

    Finally someone saying what needs to be said without acrimony and fear. Obama, I cheer for your words.

    I'm a 66 year old white man, and I support Obama for Ashley.

  • March 18, 2008

    4:58 PM

    Obama does not walk his talk writes:

    Obama does the contrite, "buffalo the public" speech, using his race and history of racism in America as an excuse to hang with hate-mongers like Wright and voters are supposed to buy it? Naw--not this time. Don't think so.

  • March 18, 2008

    4:59 PM

    Anonymous writes:

    Is there one intelligent person commenting on this? You people don't know shit about what's right or wrong. Your the problem.

  • March 18, 2008

    5:00 PM

    SDaedalus writes:

    This was one of the finest political speeches heard in America in 40+ years. And I suspect we will see more speeches like this in the weeks ahead.

    Considering the foul reaction in these comments and elsewhere, Obama's speech today lanced a boil that's been festering in America that until now no one dared touch. It's messy to watch, but healthy in the end. The more "controversies" that Obama is asked to address, the more we'll hear speeches like this, and the more the corrosive animosity that's been cultivated in this country in recent years will be brought out into the light of day, and in time, dissipate.

    Regardless of whether Obama prevails, the process he started with his candidacy and that is now sustained by America's awkward reaction to the possibility of a non-white president has a life of its own. For all the ugliness we can expect to see in the weeks ahead, its humbling to witness the unfolding of an important chapter in American history.

  • March 18, 2008

    5:00 PM

    Wilber writes:

    For one, you are completely twisting Wright’s words and demeaning what he has done for his community, for decades, because of some clips you saw on freaking TV, and we KNOW the press gives us all an accurate picture of issues...What the hell do you know about the man other than the few minutes of quotes you’ve seen (also, again, ignoring how factually based those comments are, however bluntly told)? As I asked above, what that he said was factually incorrect? If it’s factually incorrect just realize you have a problem with reality, which says a whole lot. Does the US not have the highest incarceration rate in the world (including police states)? Is the legal system not incredibly unfair, especially towards Wright’s community? There have been endless studies proving the case. Do you have a damn thing to say about that fact? No, he said some strong language towards America, so we all must play the patriotic card and condemn him, poor little children.

    ““we helped him when he was fighting our enemy, but when he started doing bad things, we turned against him.”

    So, you are defending using a killer that you arm (after he kills innocent people even) against an enemy of your creation (the CIA admits there would have been no backlash in 1979 in Iran if we didn’t foment the coup in Iran in 1953, prop up the Shah and his murderous secret police, again not my or the lefts words, the CIA admits it), actually getting in the way of international condemnation at the UN under Reagan and actually helping Saddam with the logistical bombing against innocent Iranians, only dumping him when they stopped being useful to the US. Then turn around and condemn Obama, who is defending a man in the face of a PR campaign cooked up by some elite conservative movement leaders, maybe even the Clinton team. Is THAT your argument?

    I’m happy that someone gets you people to face uncomfortable TRUTHS, FACTS that you don’t like being repeated. If you can’t handle the truth change the situation, if not don’t complain about people attempting to do so, unless you can put forth a moral argument in defense of the legal system here, or defending why we have the highest incarceration rates in the freaking world.

  • March 18, 2008

    5:04 PM

    Tbone writes:

    "Who is best to handle foreign affairs---McCain
    Who is best to fight terrorism---McCain
    Who is best to secure victory in Iraq--McCain"

    Shaggy, are you high? TOday mcsame said that Iran, a shiite country, has been supplying the sunni insurgents in Iraq.

    John Sydney W. Mcsame doesn't even know who is who in iraq. Here's a hint, shaggy. The shiites and sunnis are fighting each other.

    John Sydney W. Mcsame can't even tell what is up and what is down in Iraq - and you seriously think he is better qualified to handle foreign affairs and the war?

    Unbelieveable.

  • March 18, 2008

    5:10 PM

    Anonymous writes:

    Clinton, or McCain? Who will it be? Obama will not make it--he's too much aligned with radical extremists to get elected. Just watch.

  • March 18, 2008

    5:12 PM

    Bud writes:

    The rightwing can't just be always against something, they actually have to be FOR something. So what is it about Bush/McCain that they like? tax cuts for the rich? worsening environment and mileage standards? no checking of food, medicine and toys from China? incompetent disaster relief? corrupt bidding? maltreating our armed forces by not giving them adequate equipment, medical care, nor leave time? is that what you guys are FOR?

  • March 18, 2008

    5:15 PM

    joe vocht writes:

    People, you have no idea how lucky we are to be able to put such an intelligent person, Obama, in the White House!!

  • March 18, 2008

    5:21 PM

    Wilber writes:

    Only in this country can someone joke about bombing another country (bomb bomb Iran, I'd like to see how you eggheads would act if the Iranian president, or the head of the Chinese government did the same) and not be considered "extremist". THAT is mainstream opinion according to some in this country, which says more about the mindset of these people than anything I can say here.

    Every election though this happens, mainstream candidates who are turned into the evilist people in the world. Meanwhile, the issues? Well, they're being paid attention to some people and it isn't benefiting you, but shhh, it's THEIR little secret. While you stare at the shiny object they're holding up they're robbing from your kids trust fund. Don't worry though, the person doing it will have an R after their name, so it's ok.

  • March 18, 2008

    5:22 PM

    Tree writes:

    Tbone-
    Explain to him it wasn't over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor in a foreign language that I don't know!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIBvQHYRD7Y&feature=related

  • March 18, 2008

    5:28 PM

    Dems are in deep crap writes:

    Liberation Gospel is a pc way to say that black racism and twitchy lies are to be tolerated. Obama condones it, and the members of his 8000 head church applaud it.

    Liberal apologists for Obama, his wife, and his preacher will be disappointed when the votes are tallied. The Clintons will be laughing all the way back to the nomination.

  • March 18, 2008

    5:29 PM

    KW writes:

    Gosh there's a lot of Obama apologists here today.

    Tell you what, I'm laying 10-1 odds Hillary whips Obama in the primaries after this fiasco. $100 min bet.

    Any takers?

    PS - Shaggy, remember yesterday I told you these Obama loyalists will be in denial for long time.

    Guess I was right, huh?

  • March 18, 2008

    5:34 PM

    Anonymous writes:

    Obama's past and current support and acceptance of Rev Wright's extremist, militant racist rhetoric is a slap in the face of every civil rights worker--especially whites--who also endured abuse and even death in order to stand for what was right--for Obama to one day make a run for president. Sadly, Obama does not possess Presidential Character, and should not be our president.

  • March 18, 2008

    5:37 PM

    Jayisanidiot writes:

    shh KW, you have to tread gently around jay during high stress times. He is churning the alias posts like crazy and might crack at any moment.

    I would suggest that jay and his aliases sit around and circle jerk to see who can pop some wood first. Last week it only took and hour to declare a winner.


    Maybe then he'll feel up to taking you up on your bet.

  • March 18, 2008

    5:43 PM

    Anonymous writes:

    " have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Reverend Wright that have caused such controversy. For some, nagging questions remain. Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely "

    How does anyone strongly disagree and at the same time distance himself from this reverend while being a regular long time church goer? This statement is simply incredible.

  • March 18, 2008

    5:49 PM

    Tree writes:

    Be more specific KW.
    Name the rules. Hillary has to what, get the nomination? win at any cost? Whip?
    You are too vague.
    $100. down wins $1,000. Game on.
    8dude holds the cash. I don't go collecting from anyone propping up the R party. Bunch of liars already.
    Obama wins the D nomination.


  • March 18, 2008

    5:52 PM

    Tbone writes:

    Shaggy-

    You're actually accusing someone else of having fake names? Pot, meet kettle.

    Also - regarding mccain's supposedly superiour ability to handle the war. Recently, he had this to say:

    "Anybody who believes the surge has not succeeded, militarily, politically and in most other ways, frankly, does not know the facts on the ground"

    Saint Petraeus recently directly contradicted this statement from sydney mccain.

    Are you saying that st. petraeus was wrong? WHy do you hate 'merica?

    Or does this prove again that sydney mccain doesn't know jack sh!t about what's going on in Iraq?

  • March 18, 2008

    5:54 PM

    LOL! writes:

    So this is what the right wing has come to after destroying the country the last number of years (broken economy, healthcare system, army, educational system, fiscal and trade balances, etc). They're now rooting for Clinton and saying the Democrats are in trouble...why, because FOX News tells you so? Please, go foward this naive. I've been waiting since I became an adult to mock you idiots on election day. Please be this naive over the coming months. With the amounts of DC corporate/lobbyist cronyism (at a time when this is ruinning the country) and whack job right wing preachers around McCain, I'm guessing your cockiness will last about a month, tops. Once the economy tanks thanks to your "free market" garbage this preacher's comments will mean as much as McCain's anti-Catholic comments from his preacher a few weeks ago. Then what? You'll have to wait for whatever else comes along to distract you from the fact that you have nothing to offer on the issues and have to use mud slinging to slither your way into the White House. The sad thing is that none of you stop to think about how ridiculous this all is and how little you benefit from the swindle.

  • March 18, 2008

    6:03 PM

    Sir Topham Hat writes:

    Obama has bigger balls than Hillary ... let's just hope they don't shrink in the presence of John McInsane!

  • March 18, 2008

    6:04 PM

    Sir Topham Hat writes:

    Obama has bigger balls than Hillary ... let's just hope they don't shrink in the presence of John McInsane!

  • March 18, 2008

    6:22 PM

    The Big Democrat Out West writes:

    So much discussion about Barak Obama's pastor's comments that were racially charged and inappropriate. Remember, please, Obama has repeatedly denounced these comments. He spent a long time today in front of the nation denouncing these comments. So. . .

    When will McCain denounce the hideous, racist, bigoted remarks by those such as John Hagee and Tim LeHay. Two people who demonize well . . . everyone who is not a protestant christian. Jews, Catholics, Muslims are all targets of these individuals' hateful speech on a regular (daily) basis. When will McCain denounce thier hate, bigotry and racism, and when will the news networks spend as much time on McCain's hate-speakers as they do on Barak Obama's?

  • March 18, 2008

    6:39 PM

    Anonymous writes:

    Because McCain didn't support a racist, hateful pastor for 20 years or more, that's why. Obama said nothing, and did nothing, until it was clear that he couldn't get out of this one.

  • March 18, 2008

    6:46 PM

    Me writes:

    The truth is, Shaggie, that YOU hate America. You hate its schools, its entertainment industry, its method of dealing with the old and poor. You hate the coasts and the south. You hate its immigrants. You hate its universities. You hate most of its elected representatives. You hate its culture. You hate its laws.

    You hate America. So go to one of your beloved countries where dissent means death and nobody will ever disagree with you, unless they want to die.

    That goes for you too KW.

  • March 18, 2008

    6:49 PM

    Bud writes:

    Reading these bigoted comments on this blog, I'm reminded of what Charlie Chaplin said in the movie, "The Great Dictator": "Only the unloved hate, the unloved and the unnatural."

    Poor people, they weren't taken cared of properly when they were kids, now they've grown up to be maladjusted, grotesque adults. Tsk. Tsk.

    Don't worry, when Papa Obama becomes President, he'll tuck you into your beds and kiss you good night and maybe you'll stop hating everything and everyone. In the meantime, stop spewing your vile, it's going to give you a stroke or a heart attack.

    Meanwhile, us Obama supporters who were actually brought in loving home atmospheres can do what we can to make the world a better place everyone, including teeny weeny, little you.

  • March 18, 2008

    7:12 PM

    Sir Loin of Beef writes:

    I must say I have been relieved to learn of Obama's close personal association with someone like Rev. Wright - who publically expresses his perspective on and anger at the economic/racial inequities and the imperialistic wastefulness which plague our country. It is the one thing that finally convinces me that Obama may not be a corporatist trojan horse simply waiting to perpetuate the scam.

    The speech was great - it "denounces and rejects" just enough to placate the Pavlovian impulses of the shockingly huge number of American voters who operate solely on sound-bites, but it makes clear that Wright's reations were in response to real conditions, and that Obama recognizes these problems. He's got my support.

  • March 18, 2008

    7:16 PM

    Sir Loin of Beef writes:

    I must say I have been relieved to learn of Obama's close personal association with someone like Rev. Wright - who publically expresses his perspective on and anger at the economic/racial inequities and the imperialistic wastefulness which plague our country. It is the one thing that finally convinces me that Obama may not be a corporatist trojan horse simply waiting to perpetuate the scam.

    The speech was great - it "denounces and rejects" just enough to placate the Pavlovian impulses of the shockingly huge number of American voters who operate solely on sound-bites, but it makes clear that Wright's reactions were in response to real conditions, and that Obama recognizes these problems. He's got my support.

  • March 18, 2008

    7:30 PM

    Jeff writes:

    Good speech. Not a great speech but a good one. Not even a Great Speech, an event of a lifetime, would overcome the racial problems of this country. Barrack (and his supporters) fancies himself as the man to do it. Unfortunately the rest of the the USA will fall to pieces with him at the helm. Restoring our racial harmony won't fix the problems that the Democrats have inflicted our Nation with (high taxes, corrupt social programs, infidelity, lack of leadership). Fixing the relationships between Black, Asian, Hispanic and White won't win the war against Terrorism. This is the greatest foe America has ever faced and will not retreat. Radical Islam must be destroyed, violently and without restraint.

    I'm not a backer of McCan't and my concerns for him run deeper than you can imagine. However, Barrack as President won't fix any (again, not one) of this nations ills. Some people (Blacks primarily, but liberals of other races as well) will 'feel' some achievement but it's a snowflake in a blizzard.

    The only thing that will heal America is time. Younger generations need to ignore the hyperbole and stereotyping of the elder generations. Build bridges between races instead of spitting at each other (more hate on this board than ever). The older generations will die off and only the progress the younger generation will Move America Forward.

    The more I see gang-bangers drive down the street and white wannabes cruising in competition, the less confidence I have in America in the future. The great experiment is drawing to a close with the limited, minimal choices thrust on the voters.

  • March 18, 2008

    7:32 PM

    People get ready--for someone other than Obama writes:

    Nopers, criticsm of BO is justified, and has nuttin to do with maladjusted whatevers.

    Facts are facts. Obama kept his support--financial, and every other kind of support--of his pastor Rev Wright on the down low until it became evident that he gave his alligator tear-jerk phony speech to prop up his ratings. Makes no never-mind to most of us--he ain't right for the presidency of the "US KKK-of A" as his pal Rev Wright calls our great country.

  • March 18, 2008

    7:59 PM

    KW writes:

    $970.696.6969

    This is the number Obama needs to call. It's Spitzers number.

    He should try and get a few cues from Spitzer on how to make an eloquent exit speech.

    It would do him good.

  • March 18, 2008

    8:47 PM

    willycrash writes:

    Wow. frankly, I could give a flying F#ck about what the pastor of obama's church said. Who gives a rat's ass?
    we having a president who thinks it's funny to rub black men's heads for good luck, while killing several hundred thousand brown people for oil, power and, apparently, a desire to impress his preppy dad. sadly, hillary is seems to be a neocon/DLC shill-the mear fact that we have been told for years now that she would be our only choice this election is reason enough to run away as fast as possible. she's what any one with any sense would have called a republican 30 years ago-as a plus, the bitch voted to authorize the neocon attack on iran that seems like it will be lil' bush's final act of desperation-can't wait to see what the ruskies and chinee think about that one, but never mind that now.

    I'm not super happy that it's come down to obama v clinton, but the choice is now clear. it speaks volumes that the only thing the little retards in the press and some of the little retards right here can come up with is some shit a preacher said some years ago, taken as always out of context and i'm sure out of it's overall importance to that preacher's sunday morning schtic.

    Personally, I'd be wondering what you think the "maveric"john mcain could do for you, someone too stupid to avoid being shot down, too stupid to beat lil bush in the 2000 primary, and too stupid,even after all these years, to realise how completely ordinary and ultimately pointless participating in immoral wars of aggression is. nothing your average roman or phoenician trooper couldn't have figured out...I mean for f%cks sake, all this little turd has done is drop a few bombs on some kids in north vietnam and put up with a little torture-not like he had to do anything special-shit, by that token half our prisoners at guantanamo should be senators . BFD man. I had a operation once but it don't make ne a freakin' doctor. as far as his having his arms pulled out of their sockets by the NVA? I have had worse injuries racing motorbikes these last 30 years...if mcain wants my vote i'll have to see him have himself water boarded on national TV while he valiantly resists telling us what his role really was in the keating 5 scandal...

    cheers,f@cksticks

  • March 18, 2008

    8:56 PM

    willycrash writes:

    ps, it gives me hope to see that the average anti obama folk on this page are, as my old mom would say, too stupid to pour piss out of a boot with a hole in the toe and the instructions nailed to the heel...

  • March 18, 2008

    9:10 PM

    Hazardous_T writes:

    Get off the floor Jay, your prostration is disturbing...

    'tOwsnBmn's speech was insipid and disingenuous, he even makes Al Gore seem animated.

    I can't imagine that he will at all distance himself from Wright. I believe that Wright sees himself as some Grand-Vizier and while stripped of an official title he will stll be whispering his venomous bromides in 'tOwsnBmn's ample ear.

    Every time 'tOwsnBmn' speaks I become more convinced that he is waging the same class warfare that led to Bolshevism and Nazism and all the other isms that the left are so enamored with. Even his slogans are relics of despots past.

    Whatever happened to "Ask not what your country can do for you..." Oh yeah, the real democrat party died on November 22 1963.

    Shaggy, I found where Jay has been getting his talking (or mumbling, he never actually articulates anything)points...

    http://www.cpusa.org/article/frontpage/1

    Cue the Twilight Zone music...

  • March 18, 2008

    10:19 PM

    reza santorini writes:

    No way will this man get my vote. How could he? He stood in a room, led by a man who said God Damn America, and didn't walk out. This man who has led as good a life as most white men and is now running for President, is already a Senator. My husband couldn't get into a good law school years ago..why they filled the quota of nonWasps, my son couldn't get a job at IBM he wasn't black, my son went to a high school where the blacks got special care in getting into the state University..after all my son was white and a State scholar. Being black gave you an easier route. That was all years ago..what have blacks done with these extras and now they want more....God Damn America..not on my watch.

  • March 18, 2008

    11:07 PM

    jay writes:

    alright...now all partisan confetti aside...the folks in the evil mainstream media said that obama "tackled" this issue with his speech today.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23687688/

    Is that true? Does anything else need to be said? Has he swayed as many minds as he's going to sway on this issue?

  • March 18, 2008

    11:29 PM

    RB writes:

    Reza, how do you know that Obama, the man was actually in the pews when this man spoke his vile statement? How can one judge the content of a mans character simply by the words of a preacher? I too, have disagreed with my own pastor's statements but, it did not sway my faith in God or Christ. Remember, "judge not, lest you be judged". I cannot denounce a person's faith simply by the words spoken by his or her pastor. These are not the words of Obama rather, the words of a manical pastor on the fringe. I proudly will step up and vote for the man most qualified to be President of the United States. If, you and many others would like more of the same past seven years then, vote for Mcsame or the Clinton machine. Then, you will hand over the United States to the highest bidder!

  • March 19, 2008

    1:37 AM

    Our current president is an idiot writes:

    Barack Obama:

    “We the people, in order to form a more perfect union.
    Two hundred and twenty one years ago, in a hall that still stands across the street, a group of men gathered and, with these simple words, launched America’s improbable experiment in democracy. Farmers and scholars; statesmen and patriots who had traveled across an ocean to escape tyranny and persecution finally made real their declaration of independence at a Philadelphia convention that lasted through the spring of 1787."

    George Bush:

    "Ameracuns just wanna' put food on their families!"

  • March 19, 2008

    6:15 AM

    Ben- Former Democrat writes:

    Barack Hussein should step down immediately. This is unexcusable and his charade should go quietly into the night. ANY acceptance of a man whose pastor and spiritual advisor of 20 years declares with enthusiasm "Goddamn America" and who is running for President of the United States of America is unfathomable and inappropriate at minimal. What I find as disconcerting is that some Americans believe this garbage from Barrack Hussein is acceptable on some level. Amazing.

  • March 19, 2008

    6:31 AM

    ML writes:

    Bumper sticker seen today:
    "I think, therefore I am...smarter than Bush."

  • March 19, 2008

    6:59 AM

    Obama cooked his own goose with this one writes:

    Plenty of folks like Obama just fine. Liking Obama is not the problem. However, what Obama believes, and what he does, and what he says are quite different things. And there's the problem. Obama supports racism in his own church and rhetoric that incites people to do what? Hate? That kind of language and influence from "brother Wright" is way dangerous, and is responsible for who knows how much violent acts--acts that can occur over a long period of time, as a result of racist brainwashing?

    And plenty of folks, upon hearing racist, hate-filled speeches, would not hesitate for one second about walking away from the rantings of a racist, firebrand-nut-case, and further, prosecute the actions of such a speaker. Yet in this case, when the rantings are against white people, and the United States, that's OK? And we should excuse a hate-monger like Rev Wright just because he's a minister? And we should excuse Obama because Rev Wright is like "family", and Obama supported this kind of nonsense for over 20 years? No, No, No! No one should think this Obama's association with Rev Wright and trying to convince us otherwise is OK.

  • March 19, 2008

    8:15 AM

    abc writes:

    Although most say this is a non issue
    It is.

    Even Rev Wright himself told the Ny times that Obama might have to distance himself from him.The spotlight is now on this church, its theology and its exclusivity. Obama himself has had to give a major speech addressing this "non issue".

    Voters will make this judgement in the polls. As much as we would like to think that policy issues are the most important, people vote with their hearts and not with their minds.

    Thats how we got a chimp running the WH for 2 terms.

    I am afraid that Obama self detonated and no speech can cover this duplicity up. People will go to the polls and think about Rev Wright.

  • March 19, 2008

    8:16 AM

    JW writes:

    Its funny that over 20 years of sermons, we have a total of what, 3 or 4 minuets of this preachers 'Hate'? Is it even that much? Couple of sentences?

    Seems to me if you heard the guy talking about God, and how to be a good Christian for 20 years, and out of all that time you heard 5 min of "America hates blacks. Hate'em back...works for me" you might just let it slide. You know, bad day...just got screwed by a white Police Officer...some kkk guy accosted him at the doughnut shop.


    But na...wingnuts love to hate Dems...so FOCUS people! Its only a few minuets out of years and years...but its a damning five minuets! And guilt by association is one of the best ways to argue that Obama is bad, rather than argue with his policies, which a CLEARLY superior to what McBush is shoveling. 4 more years! 4 more years!

  • March 19, 2008

    8:41 AM

    KW writes:

    JW - Do some research. I know you probably never spent much time in church but sermons are never only 3-4 minutes long. Usually an hour at least. And Wright has preached many a sermon with this same vitriol as even Obama now admits to.

    The tapes of sermons alone provide hundreds, if not thousands of "hours" of preaching this wicked hate. He's been preaching this way for at least the last 7 (9/11 sermon), if not 20+ years. That's a lot of sermons my friend.

    This has been by no means a mere "snapshot" in time of Wrights hate and disgust with America.

  • March 19, 2008

    8:50 AM

    benn writes:

    The outrage from some of the Righties on this subject is hilarious to me.

    "How dare his preacher say those terrible things!"

    Look at the ministers and preachers who have been advising and supporting various Right Wing politicians. Many of them take advice from Evangelical ministers who preach hate and lies... where is the outrage from that? Of course there isn't any - their hate supports your worldview... but when someone does it outside of your worldview, you become outraged.

  • March 19, 2008

    8:55 AM

    Shaggy writes:

    No surprise to see JW putting lipstick on Racism. I guess it is O.K. with him to have someone running for the highest office to attend racial services, hand pick a racial bigot to be his spiritual adviser.
    I thought America was trying to distance its self from racial tensions....Looks like Obama is now running on the race card...

    Too bad it won't work..the American people are too smart to be played by him.
    Obama had 20 years to get away from this racial bastard but he didn't, instead Obama made a speech defending racial Wright.
    Not going to fly, his ratings are going down daily.
    ONLY 8% of the American people think what Wright said was appropriate.

    Buuubbbyyyeee Ohhhhbbbaaammmaaa.


    KW,
    Yes you guessed it...Obamas groupies will be by hie side and vehemently defend him.

    My prediction also turned out to be right....anyone who even questions Obama will be labeled a racist.

  • March 19, 2008

    9:06 AM

    SASQUATCH writes:

    WRIGHT STEALS OBAMA: "INVASION OF THE BODY SNATHERS-II"

    http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=290732552237836

    Cover it up, blame capitalism and don't forget to hate whitey; the message never changes. BO has had his body and mind snatched by Neo-Hitler, J. Wright. America needs to lose BO and his message of hate. No excuses.

  • March 19, 2008

    9:09 AM

    Shaggy writes:

    Ben- Former Democrat on March 19, 2008 06:15 AM,

    You are right..Obama should step down and he should also step down from being a Senator. If he wants to attend this racial Church he should NOT be able to do so as an elected official...The kind bigoted crap that goes on his church could affect his votes on issues....This idiot still refuses to distance himself from Wright or this church because he has no balls.
    He had no balls to confront Wright or Farrakhan...
    We need a President that has the kahunas to confront wrong doers instead of protecting them and covering for them...
    I still can't believe Obama does not get this....BBuuubbbyyyeeee Ohhhbbbaaammmaa

  • March 19, 2008

    9:20 AM

    JW writes:

    KW, thats all assumption my friend. We have a record of the known "hate" sermon speaking, and its not much.

    You basically assume that hes done this more than what we have a difinitive record of. And there can be no defence against what you assume, because one cannot prove a negative. Of course, you assume this because it fits what you want to believe, even though you have no proof. This type of thing gave us habeus corpus, because its immoral at its core. We are human though, so it happens outside the court room.

    Additionally, you mischaracterize what Obama has admitted to hearing.


    But again, whether you are right or wrong, this is yet another saga in the American voting experience where emotional crap and non issues rule, because policy (which is what really matters) is ignored in favor of sensation.

    And those MOST offended by Obama's Pastor are those who would never have voted for the man anyway. It is a shame that this issue happened, but the reality is that these types would have found SOMETHING to talk about and argue, because they CANNOT argue the policies and win.

    Which matters more to YOU regarding how you will be effected by our government;

    The statements made by a preacher.

    The tax policy that will be implemented by the winning candidate.

    Unfortunately, those of you who are like Shaggy, and vote based on prom queen bs becaue it supports the position you are emotionally attatched to (dems r bad, mkay?) will think the preacher is a bigger deal, even though tax policy effects your wallet, and the economy as a whole. Its stupid and assinine, and it gave us the worst president in our history, but its what you do.

  • March 19, 2008

    9:23 AM

    KW writes:

    tree - I'm a firm believer in the old sign we used to see in almost every privately owned business:

    "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone."


    When you posted your desire to enter this gambling establishment I was ready to set the terms. But you just couldn't resist calling Repblicans "liars." This seems to have upset the pit boss here as he is a Republican and has taken offense.

    Due to your actions, It seems I'll be forced to evoke my right to refuse service to an unwelcome patron such as yourself.

    For those who can remain civil and respect others with whom they may disagree, the betting window is still open.

  • March 19, 2008

    9:34 AM

    benn writes:

    It is near a mathematical impossibility for HRC to win the nomination. She has to win every remaining state by at least 60%, AND win 2/3 of the remaining Superdelegates.

    If she somehow pulls that off, it won't matter because the Dem party will be broken.

  • March 19, 2008

    9:45 AM

    Shaggy writes:

    JW,
    Since when did McCain become a prom queen candidate?
    You flipping idiots are the ones voting for a plastic rock star.

    Keep up the good work...btw, When did you switch from Hillary to Obama?

  • March 19, 2008

    9:47 AM

    KW writes:

    From the Gallup poll:

    "Hillary Clinton is rated as "honest and trustworthy" by 44% of Americans, far fewer than say this about John McCain (67%) and Barack Obama (63%)."
  • March 19, 2008

    9:54 AM

    JW writes:

    "Since when did McCain become a prom queen candidate?"

    Since his policies all lined up with GW's, and people still want to vote for him.


    "You flipping idiots are the ones voting for a plastic rock star."

    Obama's policies are good, moderate policies. You dont even know what a policy is. Who is the idiot?

    "Keep up the good work...btw, When did you switch from Hillary to Obama?"

    Ive always said I though Hillary would be the superior candidate, and I still think so. However, as Obama's POLICIES are almost exactly the same as Hillary's, I can support him as well.

    "If she somehow pulls that off, it won't matter because the Dem party will be broken."


    You know, I can see you getting pissed. But getting pissed and not voting for Hillary were that to happen would be ASSININE. Why?

    Because you would allow your anger to put McCain in the WH.

    "In my day, we'd take you out back and beat you with a rubber hose. Now you got your unions."

    Super Troopers


    KW,

    Did you also notice that as of yesterday the Gallup Poll shows both Obama AND Hillary running neck and neck with McBush? Looks like "Honest and Trustworthy" has taken the place it deserves, BEHIND POLICY. Seriously, if she fixes the economy, fixes Iraq, fixes education, and fixes healthcare (not that I think any one person can do all that, but just for the sake of argument), would you really care if EVERYTHING out of her mouth was a lie (not that that is going to happen either)?

    My life is better, but she lies.

    My life still sux, but he tells the truth.


    Which one is more important to you?


    Answer;

    Neither. Hating Democrats at all costs is most important.

  • March 19, 2008

    9:58 AM

    benn writes:

    JW -

    I never said I wouldn't vote for HRC. I would most certainly vote for her. I'm the opposite of you, I prefer Obama - However I agree with you that their policy is almost the same, so I have no problem in supporting HRC.

    My previous post was just speculation on what would happen to the Dem party if HRC pulls off some sort of negotiated nomination. I don't have any sources, it is an opinion statement.

  • March 19, 2008

    10:06 AM

    KW writes:

    JW - "Honesty" and "policy" should go hand in hand.

    Otherwise, how can you trust some is being honest with their stated policy stances?

  • March 19, 2008

    10:06 AM

    JW writes:

    "My previous post was just speculation on what would happen to the Dem party if HRC pulls off some sort of negotiated nomination. I don't have any sources, it is an opinion statement."

    I agree with that opinion. I think many people would be so pissed it would make them stupid enough to vote McSame or not vote at all, possibly putting McSame in the WH. Not a sure bet though. Hillary is running in a dead heat agains McSame right now, and there would be some Obama supporters who would vote for her. Its possible that when we get one or the other dropping out of the race, those polls will show McSame getting his A$$ kicked.

    And I think what should be done with people that would vote McSame or not vote at all because they dont get THEIR candidate is to teach them the lesson using corporal punnishment. Unfortunately, that would be illegal.

    Realistically, the support for both is so damn even I really dont care who gets the nom. Obama has been benefiting from young people's ability to go to caucus, Hillary has been benefitting from more moderate, older people getting to the polls. If you just did straight up polls across the dems, I bet they would damn near tie.

  • March 19, 2008

    10:17 AM

    JW writes:

    "JW - "Honesty" and "policy" should go hand in hand.

    Otherwise, how can you trust some is being honest with their stated policy stances?"


    Sigh.

    Reagan lied. Yet you would still suport the guy. He lied. Hes not trust worthy.

    But...most of his policies were good.


    These same statements can be said of Clinton, but you hate the guy.


    End result?

    That type of thinking is what you use on DEMOCRATS, and ignore regarding Republicans. That way you can alwasy support a Republican, and dislike a Democrat.

    Its a double standard.

    Also,

    If the policies are right..the country prospers.

    Clinton lied, but the polices were right.

    Reagan lied, but the policies were right.

    Bush? You could argue hes lied, but for the sake of argument, lets say hes just been mislead, and didnt intentionally lie. Hes stuck to his guns. You can trust him to do as he says.

    But the policies suck...

    You getting the picture here?

  • March 19, 2008

    10:55 AM

    Shaggy writes:

    If honesty and policy are a factor in electing our next President does that mean Obama and Hillary are ruled out.

    "you getting the picture here"--JW

    Yep, McCain is the only honorable one to vote for.....

    JW,
    Do you think Obama should step down not only from the Presidential race but as Senator of Illinois for continuing to belong to a racial and anti-American church?
    20 years speaks volumes about Obama and his wife.

    92% of the American people found Wrights sermons to be deplorable....Can you guess who the 8% is?
    He is dropping his plastic rock stardism as we speak.

    It is well known who Wright is/was and now Obama says he didn't know he was a racial bastard?
    The people are not buying it...Obama is a liar.

    Bbbubbyyeee Ohhbbbaaammmaaa.

    America is trying to get past that deplorable period of time but Obama and his racist spiritual adviser keep opening old wounds..

  • March 19, 2008

    11:04 AM

    history buff writes:

    There are 10,523,520 minutes in a twenty year span. We have heard maybe 5 minutes of the life of Rev. Wright, or .0000004 of his life.

    Our church back home did a cultural exchange with Trinity UCC. A group from our church went to one of their services, and a group from their church went to one of ours. A picnic followed the services. It was obvious that their choir was head and shoulders above our choir. And it appears that three or four of the families who have supported our church over the past 150 years probably have more wealth than everyone totaled up at Trinity.

    Observations from someone who has attended church for more than 20 years.

    1- The sermons become a blur.

    2- Much time in church is spent hoping the sermon does not drag on so as not to miss kickoff of the Bears, or Broncos.

    3- Much time in church is spent looking forward to the coffee and spice cake that follows after church.

    4- What happens outside of church is really more important than what happens in church.

    5- Not everyone agrees with the pastor's sermons. I'm not sure if a majority even understand the sermons half of the time.

    6- The best part of church is community.

  • March 19, 2008

    11:12 AM

    jay writes:

    "Yep, McCain is the only honorable one to vote for"

    yes shaggy...we know you're going to vote for mccain...but you still won't tell us why (other than the obvious blind partisan affiliation)

    what accomplishments of the bush administration excite you enough to want a third term under mccain?

    deja vu

  • March 19, 2008

    11:27 AM

    KW writes:

    Rationalize all you guys want to but there's one true fact you can NEVER ralionalize away.

    The voters are NOT going to elect someone they don't feel are honest and trustworthy. At least not the majority of voters. This is human nature and a trait I hope never gets spliced out of our genes.

    My God, has this become the new platform for the Democrats? "Honesty and trust do not matter as long I speak well while telling you all the things you want to here."

    Is this what they teach in school now JW? Sure makes me glad I went thru college before this type of thinking came about. And this also gives me a greater appreciation of online classes where I don't have to endure this inane line of thought.

  • March 19, 2008

    11:28 AM

    Ben- aka Gepetto Pinochio's Master writes:

    and you Pinochio haven't told me any of Tom Tancredo's policies to back up your broadbrushing and cultivation of the tired stereotype that he is"anti-immigrant".

  • March 19, 2008

    11:30 AM

    Shaggy writes:

    Buff,
    Funny how Obama can't remember any of racial Wrights sermons as an adult but he can remember his Grandmother making racial comments when he was a child.
    Even recalling distinct conversations...wow...Way to throw granny off the train Obama....

    So Obama wants us all to think he had no idea how Racial Wright was after 20 years of being a close friend of his....What an egocentric narcissist..Does he really think we are so stupid????

  • March 19, 2008

    11:31 AM

    gr8fuldude writes:

    Guys -
    A great deal of what comprises worship today is all about marketing. Wright was preaching to an audience, and tailored his message to who his market is/was. For a great summary of this phenomenon, I would urge you to check out a book called Worship Evangelism by Sally Morgenthaler.

    That said, Obama needs to make a mark with middle America. NY and California alone will not get him elected, and I fear an exodus to McCain should this issue continue to fester. I think the speech was well said and well received. Hillary is numerically pretty much out of it, and if she continues to try, I fear the Dems will rend themselves and hand the election to McCain.

    Side note to jay/shaggy - I've watched the questioning with you guys for two weeks now, and what I think Shaggy is getting at, is while he is not in love with specific Bush policies, he sees a vote for McCain as the lesser of all evils. Let me know if I've misread.

  • March 19, 2008

    11:35 AM

    jay writes:

    still running shag? i guess if you're not going to answer the question then we can only assume that you're a partisan hack who will vote along republican lines regardless of their policy failures. now we know. you've always lied and said you weren't a fan of bush, but refuse to put your vote where your mouth is...

    benny....don't pout...if you don't know what tancredo's immigration plan called for severe reductions in legal immigration then don't project your anger at being uneducated on the matter in my direction

  • March 19, 2008

    11:39 AM

    Ben- aka Gepetto Pinochio's Master writes:

    Pinochio, Don't try to go the old "pouting" routine to not answer a question. Specifically what is Tancredos policy? Post it. Truthfully. I dare you.

  • March 19, 2008

    11:42 AM

    jay writes:

    benny we've already been over and over this...tancredo's policy supported a drastic reduction in immigration...legal or not...which is an anti-immigration stance which you have said you supported in the past...making you...anti-immigrant.

    stop running from your own rhetoric and for the love of all that is far right extremism, stop pouting about being cornered on it. it's over. come to terms with it. get over it.

  • March 19, 2008

    11:50 AM

    Ben- aka Gepetto Pinochio's Master writes:

    Pinochio
    What is Tancredo's policy? You obviously have no idea. We all know you are radical left wing ideologue but may I suggest that you have an open mind and read Tancredo's book "In Mortal Danger"? It has citations and quantifications, unlike left wing propoganda. Do this before you run at the mouth with the smearing.

  • March 19, 2008

    11:54 AM

    jay writes:

    lol...ok benny....run along and get back to me when you can type something besides a conspiracy theory about how correctly observing that tancredo's immigration policy calls for severe reductions in legal immigration is a "smear".

    could you honestly be any more irrelevant.

  • March 19, 2008

    11:58 AM

    KW writes:

    jay - Let me give you one simple piece of advice.

    If you need to put words in some one's mouth as a set up, before you can even ask the supposed "question," you're question isn't deserving of acknowledgement and had no business being asked in the first place.

    Am I being clear enough about that for you? Let me know if you still don't get and we'll try another approach. I know you have a mind inside you there some place and by golly we'll keep digging until we find it.

  • March 19, 2008

    12:00 PM

    Ben- aka Gepetto Pinochio's Master writes:

    Pinochio, So by your logic if your kid has a party and a bunch other kids show up carload upon carload, by the hundreds, at your house uninvited, straining your party resources and trashing your house, and you want them to leave, you are anti-children?

    Just give us Tancredo's policy. That's all.

  • March 19, 2008

    12:05 PM

    Shaggy writes:

    Dude,
    Everyone on this blog including jay knows where I stand because I have had to explain it to him about 100 times....He wants me to say something that fits his beliefs and when I deny him that little self gratification he plays this little game and says that I don't answer him...
    He also likes to do the "we've debunked that conspiracy theory already" routine as well....

    Again jay....my apologizes if you are mentally challenged....I wished your key board had a handi-cap icon key you could put next to your name so we all can be more careful what we say to you.

  • March 19, 2008

    12:09 PM

    jay writes:

    we're not talking about tancredo's support for reducing illegal immigration, benny, we're talking about tancredo's support for reducing LEGAL immigration. give us some sign you understand that.

    shag...if you don't want to tell us which policy stances of mccain/bush's you support enough to warrant a vote for a third w term under mccain...that's fine....i think we all suspected that you were a partisan hack months ago...but don't for one minute think that you can refuse to give us that info....then pretend that you did.

    not gonna happen.

  • March 19, 2008

    12:14 PM

    benn writes:

    Seriously Shaggy.

    What issues do you agree with McCain on? Any specific policy you really like?

    This is not flame-baiting, I am genuinely interested.

  • March 19, 2008

    12:16 PM

    Ben- aka Gepetto Pinochio's Master writes:

    Pinochio, Don't pout.
    Apparently you wish to remain "willfully ignorant".

    What is Tancredo's policy on immigration? Cite and post it.

    Now you can start pouting again.

  • March 19, 2008

    12:18 PM

    jay writes:

    bennytroll...run along...unless of course you have the intellectual courage and honesty to answer one question.

    does tancredo's policy on immigration call for reductions in LEGAL immigration?

  • March 19, 2008

    12:19 PM

    history buff writes:

    Shaggy, I don't find it unusual that Obama remembers things his grandmother said more clearly than what was said in church. I remember my confederate grandmother telling me how the south won the civil war, but honestly, I can't remember much about the many sermons I've heard in church.

    As a member of a UCC church, I know that each church is independent to decide how to hold services, but the conference of churches recommends how the worship service should proceed.

    Typically, there is a call to worship:

    Praise the Lord!
    The Lord be praised!

    Then a hymn, A Mighty Fortress is Our God. The acolytes come forward with a staff topped by a cross. The candles are lighted.

    There may be more responsive words of praise, the pastor's greeting, a hymn sung by the choir, a verse from scripture.

    An important part of the services are an exchange of greetings among the parishioners, and announcements. Who is in the hospital? Who is having a baby? Who is having a funeral? A baptism? Meetings of various boards, rummage sales, purchases to be made by the church. The congregation participates by standing up and speaking.

    There may be a children's story, another hymn, a prayer.

    Then the sermon. My experience is that the minister doesn't preach the same sermon every Sunday. Usually they try to say something different every week.

    Then there is offering and communion, more prayer, followed by the Lord's Prayer. Then the final hymn and then everyone is invited to meet in the basement, or in the new wing.

    I think Barack Obama and the church assembly at Trinity UCC get a lot more than an occasional sermon about the plight of the black race in white America.

    To me, the most significant part of my church experience is that we are called on the forgive, and to love our neighbors. I would bet that the message is pretty much the same at Trinity UCC.

  • March 19, 2008

    12:20 PM

    JW writes:

    "Rationalize all you guys want to but there's one true fact you can NEVER ralionalize away.

    The voters are NOT going to elect someone they don't feel are honest and trustworthy. At least not the majority of voters. This is human nature and a trait I hope never gets spliced out of our genes."

    But the data says youre wrong. According to the data, Hillary is the least "trustworthy and honest" yet according to that same data, she is statistically TIED with McCain in an election, and is not getting blown out by the most "trustworthy and Honest" of the bunch in these primaries. Additionally, if it all came down to "trustworthy and Honest" you still dont have agreed upon criteria, which is why you support McCain even though in the polling data he is less "Trustworthy and Honest" according to the majority.

    Its not "rationalization" to see what the data tells you. Its "rationalization" to disregard the data in favor of what you believe by using talking points like yours above KW.


    "My God, has this become the new platform for the Democrats? "Honesty and trust do not matter as long I speak well while telling you all the things you want to here."

    Apparently its not limited to Democrats KW. Example, REAGAN. He was a good speaker. He told you what you wanted to hear. He lied to you. And you still supported him, and still honor his memory.

    As for me, you know quite well Im a centrist, and will vote for policies before party.

    "Is this what they teach in school now JW? Sure makes me glad I went thru college before this type of thinking came about. And this also gives me a greater appreciation of online classes where I don't have to endure this inane line of thought."

    No. What they teach in school is the critical thinking skills necessary to RECOGNIZE this stuff, even if you dont want to. Reality doesnt changed based on your emotional needs.

    Here is an example:

    Reality-

    Reagan and Clinton were both liars. PERIOD.

    Now, you inject emotional need;

    "I like Republicans, and hate Democrats."

    Result-

    Disregarding the reality that both Reagan and Clinton were liars...."Reagan was the best president ever, and Clinton was a lying, untrustworthy asshole".

    Or visa versa, if youre emotionally commited to Democrats.


    Use critical thinking and you get the following;

    Both Clinton and Reagan lied. However, both were good presidents because the policies they instituted during their administrations were beneficial to the country as a whole. Therefore, their "trustworthyness and Honesty" were not required to do their job, which was to put in place policies that were beneficial to the country. Therefore, "Honesty and Trustworthyness" are not legitimate criteria when trying to decide which candidate will be best for the country, because that is determined by POLICY!


    Get it?

    Didnt think so. Continue with your "rationalization" to meet your emotional needs.


  • March 19, 2008

    12:28 PM

    Ben- aka Gepetto Pinochio's Master writes:

    Pinochio, you called the man "anti-immigrant" Now all I ask is you provide his policies (not your interpetation of them) to justify your charge.

  • March 19, 2008

    12:28 PM

    Obama's speech failed writes:

    Obama's speech failed. He has been exposed as having heartfelt feelings on issues of race, (can't we all just get along, yawn), and nothing of substance for the serious issues facing our economy, and what we need to do about terrorism. Obama can also emote all he wants about the Iraq war, yet he has said and done nothing substantive about that, either. 'Nuff said.

  • March 19, 2008

    12:31 PM

    jay writes:

    lol...run along trollbenny...get back to me when you can answer an honest question and stop pouting about the fact that you were cornered on this subject months ago and just won't let it go...

    ...still waiting on that policy homework shag...

  • March 19, 2008

    12:32 PM

    JW writes:

    Man, I think that "pinochio/Ben-Aka Gipetto" crap is about the lamest thing Ive ever seen.

    "you think your cool bennie!"

    Someone needs to dose that guys Koolaid.

  • March 19, 2008

    12:34 PM

    Ben- aka Gepetto Pinochio's Master writes:

    Pinochio,
    You called the man "anti-immigrant" Now all I ask is you provide his policies (not your interpetation of them) to justify your charge.

    Oh you cornered me again? Oh I see this is where you flee an claim victory again.

    Til the cows come home Pinochio, til the cows come home.

  • March 19, 2008

    12:42 PM

    jay writes:

    benny...there's nothing i can do about your willful ignorance.

    fact: tancredo wants to reduce legal immigration

    any questions?

  • March 19, 2008

    12:46 PM

    Hogar De Vuelta (العودة) aka ignorant strawman warmonger racist withsome friends writes:

    gr8,

    As always you are a great mediator.

    Wilber,

    Though you have brought up some valid points regarding Saddam, it is important to remember that at that time, we thought we were at a far greater disadvantage on the world stage, as the USSR was still greatly feared. We thought we were in a struggle for our very existence, and therefore some things were done that in hindsight should not have been done.

    Our relationship with Saddam was never the sort of relationship that Barak has had with Wright. We have relationships with countries that we would never associate with on the home front. Barak could not have attended Wrights church for 20 years without knowing the sort of positions that Wright has consistently taken.

    Barak cannot erase a 20 year intimate relationship with one eloquent, but seriously flawed speech.

    Here is an interesting poll result and one that I think is the key to a McCain win in November.

    "Interestingly, according to Gallup, the reason for McCain and Obama's higher favorable ratings is because they cross-appeal to Americans who identify with the "other" party."

    "That cross appeal works in McCain's favor among Democrats, which show that 52 percent of Democrats and independents who lean Democratic, give John McCain a favorable rating, which Gallup describes as an "extraordinarily high number"."

    "For Obama the number of Republicans or Republican leaners that give him a favorable rating, sits at 39 percent and for Clinton that number is only 20 percent."

    McCain has broader appeal overall and though both extremes are unhappy with him, the average American sees him as the true uniter.

  • March 19, 2008

    12:51 PM

    Shaggy writes:

    Dude,
    So you actually think Obama had no idea how racial his spiritual adviser is after 20 years of personally knowing him and attending his services?
    Even after Farrakhan was given a life time achievement award?

    The thing I really find disturbing is that Wright even told Obama before he started his run that he might have to distance himself from and Obama agreed, then Obama turns around and puts him on his African committee.
    Something isn't ticking right inside Obama and I think the American people are starting to find that out.

  • March 19, 2008

    12:54 PM

    Yellow Mcsame writes:

    jay
    We know Shaggy can't answer.
    He's voting for Mcsame because he's an old man white republican. That's the only reason. There is no other reason to shoot yourself in the foot.
    See Shaggy, racism runs in your blood and you can't see it. If Mcsame was brown/black/yellow, no way you would be voting for him. And you can't say you would, because you still can't say why your voting for a white Mcsame. Sorry Shaggy, you painted yourself into your own corner and can't get out.

  • March 19, 2008

    12:58 PM

    Ben- JW's Master writes:

    Pinochio, So wanting you to produce cited information on your charges is being "willfully ignorant"? Lol Nice.

    Yep, Your own "willful ignorance" is slapping you in the face, and of course you are "willfully ignorant". Don't pout.

    Yellow, didn't you get the memo? If you try to use the race card instead of debating the facts.... you lose. That crap don't fly.

  • March 19, 2008

    1:03 PM

    jay writes:

    okay...one more time and then i'm done watching you pout about being cornered on this issue, benny. tancredo's immigration policy stated that he wants to reduce LEGAL immigration by 75%

    http://asp.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/issues.aspx?i=2&c=16

    now...do you have any questions about that fact?

  • March 19, 2008

    1:09 PM

    Ben- JW's Master writes:

    So what Yellow is saying is that if one is white and wants to vote according to their demographic group, they are racist (but only if their skin is white). SOOOOO if you don't vote for the black man with the Muslim name who condones the hating of the USA you are racist. I get it now. Didn't I tell you this was going to happen just sayin?

    Pinochio, Well duh. I want Tancredo's citation not left leaning USA today. So you aren't into good stewardship of the dear old USA I take it. Does this mean you actually deep down hate the USA and Americans?

  • March 19, 2008

    1:12 PM

    jay writes:

    again bennytroll...any questions about tancredo's plan to reduce LEGAL immigration by 75% (according to his own website as confirmed below)?

    hint...either you have a question or you don't...

  • March 19, 2008

    1:15 PM

    Hogar De Vuelta (العودة) aka ignorant strawman warmonger racist withsome friends writes:

    HB,

    The problem with Wright's sermons is the racist brush he uses. He doesn't just say we need to continue to expose and resist racism where we find it, he broadly condemns whites for being racist, while leaving all other forms of racism untouched. He doesn't confine himself to condemning racist acts, he wants God to condemn America to damnation and calls it the USKKKofA. Then in a perfect act of confirmation, he gives Farrakhan a Lifetime Achievement Award. Farrakhan is as much the poster boy for racism as the KKK.

    I can tell you that if my pastor ever gave a single rant like Wright did over and over again, he would be fired so fast his head would spin. He could certainly be forgiven, but only if he confessed the evil of his words, and he would not be reinstated in his position. I have never heard Wright apologize for a single word he spoke.

  • March 19, 2008

    1:18 PM

    Anonymous writes:

    Has Rush overdosed on his narcotics yet?

    He must be hating life today, as are all Obama-haters.

  • March 19, 2008

    1:22 PM

    JW writes:

    Ben, you might be my bitch, but thats about it.


    Hogar,

    Well, youre not ignoring data, but you are cherry picking. If your analysis of the polls you are cherry picking was right, the general election polls wouldnt have Hillary and Obama both in a statistical tie with McSame.

    And I have no data to support the following, but its my opinion that once the Dems get whittled down to one candidate and the general election campaign begins the Dem will smash McSame. The economy is tanking. Most people feel the spending on Iraq is contributing to that, and most people are now against the war. Easy tie in for any Democrat to use in a campaign,

    "The economy (issue #1) is going down due to failed policies put in place by the Bush administration, and McSame's idea is to continue following them. These include tax policy, and spending on Iraq (issue#2).

    I want to right the economy (#1), and that is going to require changing course from failed policies still supported by McSame, including getting out of Iraq(#2) and avoiding the massive deficit spending Iraq requires, which is killing our economy (#1)."

    Bang. One two punch dealing with the first and second most important issues as America sees it. McSame is dead.

  • March 19, 2008

    1:25 PM

    Ben- aka Gepetto -Pinochio's master writes:

    Pinochio,
    Tancredo wants to keep legal immigration at 25% of it's current level. This why you call him "anti-immigrant"? To top it off the USA allows 2 million legal entrants ANNUAlly. More than the rest of the world's nation COMBINED! Yet you smear him as "anti-immigrant". I call it conservationist and good management.
    Yep, you are definitly willfully ignorant.

  • March 19, 2008

    1:26 PM

    Shaggy writes:

    Yellow Mcsame,
    Everything you said is a strawman fallacy and a lie.
    You act like you know me but I have never addressed you.
    That leads to tell me you are posting under a different name than normal to take cheap pot shots at me.
    Ewww, your real tough.
    Grow some nuts and post shit like that under the name you normally post under.

    You are a disgrace to America for discriminating against John McCain who by the way more class in the two hairs on his head than you will ever have.

  • March 19, 2008

    1:29 PM

    jay writes:

    there you go benny...next time don't run so long before acknowledging a politically inconvenient fact.

  • March 19, 2008

    1:30 PM

    gr8fuldude writes:

    HDV - Thanks man, I was a middle child. Supposedly we're born peacemakers.

    Shaggy and the rest - I truly disagree with the means that Wright used, but bear in mind the HUGE challenges facing the black family today. I am not trying to get flamed here (though I am sure I will be), but the black family today faces multiple crises, including drugs, illegitimacy, higher unemployment and the highest percentage of males eitehr in prison, or under the watch of the probation system.

    I hate the means that Wright used to deliver his message, but clearly the black male today is not getting it. Cosby said it was was branded an "uncle Tom" and that he was a "sellout" and "sounding white". Being raised a middle class white guy, I really don't have the experience to judge his words. To be sure, they sound abhorrent to me, but maybe some strong medecine is needed here. The problems have certainly festered long enough, wouldn't you all agree?

  • March 19, 2008

    1:32 PM

    jay writes:

    by the way hogar...jw is right in that once the race is whittled down to mcbush and the dem candidate it's all over by the swiftboating.

    the latest polls have ANY dem candidate beating ANY rub candidate by double digits.

  • March 19, 2008

    1:38 PM

    JW writes:

    "there you go benny...next time don't run so long before acknowledging a politically inconvenient fact."

    Sort of. Hes finally admitted that Trancredo wanted to drastically lower the legal immigration rate, but hes dead wrong about how much.

    Trancredo said he wanted to cap it at 30k a year. Last time I looked, 30k wasnt anywhere near 25% of 2 million.

  • March 19, 2008

    2:00 PM

    Anonymous writes:

    Pinochio, the inconvenient fact is the USA is drowning in immigration legal and otherwise, and most of America is beginning to realize it. You seem to want to downplay this "inconvenient truth".
    Now you say it is an inconvenient fact for me, I don't see how it could be as I have just finished reading Tancredo's book "In Mortal Danger". I suggest again that you read it. It's a straight forward read.


    JW, Lets link it okay? We don't want JW's version.
    Oh, and this from the guy who says Microsoft is running at a loss. JW also is a proponent of unlimited HB1 visas or as the Indian Secretary of Commerce call them the "Outsourcing Visa". According to JW's logic the way out of the recession is to bring in more foreign workers as well. Jesus dude, decide if you are a neo-con or a left wing radical. Either way, I would ask you again, never to work with the taxpayers money or be in a position where you would be able to make decisions with taxpayer money.

  • March 19, 2008

    2:03 PM

    jay writes:

    that is certainly your opinion bennytroll...and you're more than welcome to it...but next time don't stubbornly refuse to acknowledge inconvenient facts and we won't have to go through this painful tutoring process AGAIN

  • March 19, 2008

    2:06 PM

    Ben- aka Gepetto Pinochio's Master writes:

    Pinochio, what "inconvenient facts" am I ignoring?

  • March 19, 2008

    2:13 PM

    Anonymous writes:

    Q: With regards to illegal and legal immigration, what does it mean to be an American?

    TANCREDO: ... We talk about all the immigration reform we want, and what it's got to get down to is this: Are we ready for a timeout? Are we actually ready to say, "Enough is enough"? We have to stop all legal immigration except for people coming into this country as family members, immediate family members, and/or refugees...

    http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Tom_Tancredo_Immigration.htm

  • March 19, 2008

    2:21 PM

    Hogar De Vuelta (العودة) aka ignorant strawman warmonger racist withsome friends writes:

    gr8,

    There are certainly many problems in the a number of communities today. Bill Cosby has tried to point out the ptoblem, but because he does not subscribe to the Wright/Sharpton camp, that all problems are the result of evil white people, he was attacked.

    Blacks are murdered predominantly by other blacks. And in spite of the fact that whites outnumber blacks more than 5 to 1, the number of black murderers is equal to the number of white murderers. I often wonder what MLK would think of that statistic. Wright talked about how whites were to blame for drugs and AIDS in the black community, but I notice that he did not talk about the fact that blacks murder blacks at 5 times the rate that whites murder whites. Black on white murders is twice the number of white of black murders. So blacks are 10 times more likely to murder a white than whites are to a black. Those statistics simply do not support the picture that Wright tries to paint of white America.

  • March 19, 2008

    2:26 PM

    jay writes:

    benny you were either willfully ignorant about the fact that tancredo wants to severely reduce LEGAL immigration...or you were just ignorant. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you were just refusing to acknowledge that politically inconvenient fact...but hey...you're right...it could very well have been the latter.

  • March 19, 2008

    2:35 PM

    gr8fuldude writes:

    HDV -
    To answer your rhetorical question, I think MLK would be spinning in his grave to look at the situation of the black family today. I also agree that Sharpton and company have done more to turn back the clock in terms of race relations than anyone else.

    I think the point here is that Wright was speaking to a predominantly (if not completely) black church, and were Obama not in the spotlight, his words would have probably never made it to light of day. He has the mission of leading his flock, and if his flock is all black, then he should address their needs. This is NOT to say that he should be playing the "blame whitey" card.

    Sharpton and company routinely play to a national audience and routinely say outrageous things without anyone batting an eye.

    I truly believe that playing the victim serves nobody well. Blaming whites is likely reprehensible. I would be interested in seeing the overall theme of Wright's sermons. I think it VERY possible in this case that the media is taking the most charged statements and beating them repeatedly, without looking at the totality of his messages.

    I'm also not completely convinced that one's pastor's statements completely speak for the individual. In one way, I have to respect Obama for not disowning the pastor. I think if Hillary were so cornered, she would have thrown anyone under the bus if she thought it suited her current need.

  • March 19, 2008

    2:38 PM

    Shaggy writes:

    Dude,
    I know you totally disagree with Wright's hate speeches. So do I and so does 92% of America. Obama even said he disagrees with the parts that offend people. That isn't good enough.
    If I went to a Church where the Preacher was saying those hatefull things I wouldn't just say I don't agree, I would tell him I don't agree and leave for good.
    Obama refuses to leave him and keeps defending him.

    He is clearly a disgruntled angry man that has racial issues and I find it very disturbing that Obama is still defending him.
    I don't think it proper for any elected official to belong to this kind of church let alone someone who wants to become President of the U.S.

    I am almost to the point where I believe Obama should step down from the Senate...this is really troubling for many Americans and Obamas ratings are going down.


    jay,
    Surly you are not blaming the Republicans for forcing Obama to hand select a racial spiritual adviser and attend his church for 20 years so the Republicans can attack him if he ever decides to run for President are you?

  • March 19, 2008

    2:39 PM

    history buff writes:

    HDV

    My point is that the sermons published on the net are a small part of the whole church experience at Trinity. They are probably a small part of all Rev. Wright's sermons over the past 20 years. How do you know that he has never talked about black on black crime? How do you know what community programs Trinity may have to deal with black on black crimes? How would you like the totality of your life for the past 20 years reduced to an association to a snippet from a sermon you may or may not agree with? There is an element of the witch hunt involved in the portrayal made by the right wingers. If someone wanted to get nasty about it, it could be pointed out that traditionally right wing churches have condemned blacks, Jews, catholics and gays. Now they complain about political correctness and limit their attacks to gays, although Senator McCain's spiritual adviser still preaches against the catholic whore church.

  • March 19, 2008

    2:52 PM

    Ben writes:

    Pinochio,
    Tancredo is correct, and we are all beginning to understand this, some sooner than others. Is this too inconvenient for you? It will only get more inconvenient for you, rest assured.

    Why is Tancredos plan for stewardship of this country panned? It is inconvenient for the elites, but again it is an inconvenience that the vast majority of Americans understand will worsen with out outdated liberal immigration policies. The USA is behind the time in regards to open immigratin policies and it will pay the price. Less has definitely become more and Tancrado is a true leader in this sense. We can no longer afford to be the flophouse for the third world.

  • March 19, 2008

    2:58 PM

    JW writes:

    "I'm also not completely convinced that one's pastor's statements completely speak for the individual. In one way, I have to respect Obama for not disowning the pastor. I think if Hillary were so cornered, she would have thrown anyone under the bus if she thought it suited her current need. "


    I'm confused at how clear thinking you can be about this situation with Obama,

    then turn it all on its head by parroting what is basciall a 100% media generated and completely unfounded depiction of Hillary.

    How much heat has the woman taken over her cheating husband? I've yet to see ANYONE, self-pious Christians or real Christians, give the woman credit for sticking to her vows. Everyone just blasts her for it saying she's so cold hearted its a campaign tactic. Seems to me, if you were right about her, she would have thrown him under the bus. Hell, more recently, she basically told him to quit whining in his public speeches, but she didnt throw him under the bus publicly, as would be the case if Gr8 was right.

    I've yet to see her get really negative either. Ive not seen her attack Obama over this. Yea, red phone add. blah blah blah. Thats TAME if looked at in a historical context. In comparison, Ive watched Obama make baseless claims about Clinton having something to hide regarding her tax returns, even though she has 15 years of tax returns in the public domain. Ive seen him make baseless accusations of her having something to hide because she hadnt released her archives from being first lady yet. Accusations without proof, and that is Rovian. Negative statements about his POLICIES is not, thats campaigning.

    And the result? Hillary is a lying bitch with something to hide and is a horrible person for going negative on Obama, but Obama is a freaking saint (till this bit with his pastor) who isnt negative even when hes sending in a play DIRECTLY from Rove's playbook.

    You would think the media has never failed us, so there is no reason to think critically about what they say.

    But thats not the case, and if you take a critical look at the woman's actions, all of a suddend all this media spin about what a lying, manipulative bitch she is just kind of goes up in smoke. And NO! I dont give a flying F$%K about her pant suit, or her god damn cackle.


    I've been quite disappointed by a few of you lately though, because none of this seems to be considered. Some people Id usually consider quite rational are buying it hook line and sinker. I guess none of us are immune.

    None of this is to say youre stupid for supporting Obama over Hillary. Thats a choice you have to make on your own. Its just saying I think some are making that choice based on some pretty damn flimsy criteria due to media influence. And if you take a look at their policies, you'll find out why.

  • March 19, 2008

    2:58 PM

    jay writes:

    again benny...more power to you...you are welcome to your opinion...i just wanted to confirm that you knew what i was saying about tancredo's immigration policy wasn't a lie.

    i think we're done unless you have anything else to add besides the usual far right wing talking points.

  • March 19, 2008

    3:03 PM

    Anonymous writes:

    Shaggy, you sound like someone who doesn't belong to a church. Giving up your church is something not be done in haste. And the church is more than the preacher. It is a community. Worship is something we share in. Obama surely broke bread and prayed with the rest of the congregation. I think it would be very shallow for Obama to make the decision you suggest for political expediency. Besides, you don't know what Trinity UCC as a church is doing the other 167 hours and 40 minutes each week when Rev. Wright is not preaching.

  • March 19, 2008

    3:06 PM

    Obama's speech didn't work this time writes:

    No matter what Obama supporters say or think, it doesn't matter. Obama has shown that he has selective memory until held accountable by the American public about his 20-year allegiance to a racist preacher who preaches hatred against America.

  • March 19, 2008

    3:15 PM

    Obama is the devil writes:

    Obama will lead us into the horror of the apocalypse and the end of times. He's not fooling anyone, we on the Right can see right through his charade of lies.

  • March 19, 2008

    3:22 PM

    Shaggy writes:

    03:03 PM,
    Listen....Obama knew what kind of Church this was before he even stepped foot in it...He knew who Wright was before he selected him to be his spiritual adviser....Obama used this Church to help him gain his black status in the Community, which there is nothing wrong with, but for him to knowingly go to a Church like this and openly admit he might have to distance him self from Wright clearly shows he knew what Wright was preaching was clearly wrong.
    He didn't have the balls to tell him though, in fact Obama chose to become closer to him.
    That my friend is a disgrace.


    Let me ask you something...Is it O.K. to beat your wife once in a while as long as it isn't every Sunday and the rest of the time you are nice to her?

  • March 19, 2008

    3:28 PM

    Shaggy writes:

    3:03,
    Check this link out proving my point that Obama has long known Wrights racial and hate sermons might be a problem for him.

    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/03/throughout-his.html

  • March 19, 2008

    3:31 PM

    KW writes:

    jay dreamed:

    "the latest polls have ANY dem candidate beating ANY rub candidate by double digits."


    Would those be the "jaypolls" jay? We've been posting poll numbers here for at least 4 days now and NONE of them are in agreement with this statement you just pulled out of your arse.

    Even Gallup disagrees with you.

    As a matter of fact, they not only show Obama losing even MORE ground today to Hillary, they also show McCain leading either Hillary or Obama by a growing margin.

    Maybe you should just keep posting under that "Yellow" name you used earlier so you'd quit being such an embarrassment to yourself.

  • March 19, 2008

    3:36 PM

    JW writes:

    KW,

    Those "growning margins" are within the statistical margin of error, which means they are effectively tied, as Ive been saying.

  • March 19, 2008

    3:38 PM

    I agree with Shaggy that Obama is the Devil's spawn and Hillary is his Evil Stepsister sent to end l writes:

    This is proof that he is the devil!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWBTz5q9boY

  • March 19, 2008

    3:41 PM

    history buff writes:

    Shaggy, that was me at 303. You haven't proved what kind of church Trinity UCC is. You take a couple snippets and extrapolate that into a conclusion. There is a lot more to Christian life than listening to a sermon. And as I said, it sounds like you don't belong to a church because you haven't said one damn thing that shows you know anything about Sunday worship. It is easy for someone who is more accustomed to a Sunday morning hang over to criticize someone who spends Sunday morning at a worship service.

  • March 19, 2008

    3:45 PM

    jay writes:

    NBC News/Wall Street Journal Poll March 7-10, 2008. N=1,012 registered voters nationwide. MoE ± 3.1.

    "Putting aside for a moment the question of who each party's nominee might be, what is your preference for the outcome of the 2008 presidential election -- that a Democrat be elected president or that a Republican be elected president?"

    Democrat 50%
    Republican 37%
    Other/Unsure 13%

  • March 19, 2008

    4:04 PM

    KW writes:

    Understood and agreed JW.

    But then again, you aren't the silly poster pulling fictitious numbers out of his arse here are you?

    At least, we hope you're not another one of jay's many aliases. Heck, he even makes Sybil look like a rookie when it comes multiple personality disorder.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    jay (or whoever you are right now) - Nice poll. I did notice NBC understands that if you replace mere party affiliation with actual candidate names the results will flip flop. Did you notice that too?

    But why are you not supplying the link? Anyone worth a grain of credibility would've posted the link for verification without having to be asked. Should we just trust you? Not.

    But we'll pretend for a moment because I know you have a lot of time on your hands...

    Do you see the dates of your poll. Hardly the "latest polls" as you claimed you had. 3/10 was OVER a week ago (you can count, right?) Gallup's results are as of 3/18 (yesterday) and they polled over a 4 day period, not 3.

    Also notice the number sampled. NBC sampled over 3000 LESS registered voters than Gallup. So which would be a better sampling? Wait, will come back to that one.

    A better question is, are your poll numbers biased (garbage)? Or with such disparity, should we simply conclude that polls take such a small sampling that the data isn't worth wasting pee on even if it was on fire?

  • March 19, 2008

    4:10 PM

    jay writes:

    kw you asked for a recent poll supporting the fact I stated several days ago. I gave you that credible national, scientific polling.

    do you have any real questions about this or are you just pouting?

  • March 19, 2008

    4:12 PM

    Hogar De Vuelta (العودة) aka ignorant strawman warmonger racist withsome friends writes:

    Jay,

    That poll means nothing. Those are the kind of polls that represent a sentiment that harkens back to a Kennedy, Truman or FDR. Those are the kind of candidates that Democrats wish they could vote for. The reality of an Obama and Hillary simply burst that bubble and drive people in the middle toward a McCain.

  • March 19, 2008

    4:16 PM

  • March 19, 2008

    4:16 PM

    Anonymous writes:

    Also bear in mind that the poll is dates 10 March, which means it was taken before all of this uproar hit the airwaves in force.

  • March 19, 2008

    4:20 PM

    jay writes:

    that is certainly one tinfoil hat brigade theory, hogar, but it becomes a trend when you look at similar, party line polling that shows that the vast majority of americans don't want republican policies continued...or that the vast majority of americans prefer that the dems be in charge of nearly every single issue before the country today...or that nearly 9 out of 10 american don't agree with the direction in which the republicans have pushed the country...etc..etc..etc...

    did you think the last 7 years wasn't going to earn your party the appropriate punishment? was nov 2006 not a clue? do you really think all the swiftboating in the world was going to erase the republican track record?

  • March 19, 2008

    4:26 PM

    benn writes:

    Thanks 4:16... when will the MSM note he gave the commencement address at Fallwell's college.... he must agree with everything Jerry says and he must be a bad person... DUH!

  • March 19, 2008

    4:33 PM

    KW writes:

    Have fun with your imaginary candidate polls jay. I don't mind a bit. You see, you used to preach here that the reps were in for a thumping come November, but the closer we get the more it's beginning to feel like a back rub.

  • March 19, 2008

    4:35 PM

    Shaggy writes:

    Buff,
    Do you think a Church is represented by their Preacher?
    Do you think if a Church as big as T.U. would keep a Preacher if they did not agree with him?

    As to your question,
    I try not to discuss my private life online anymore when it comes to my or my families faith or beliefs.
    You can thank am760 for that...he made such derogative statements about my Daughter going to a Christian college to become a youth pastor that Mark W had to remove them.

  • March 19, 2008

    4:40 PM

    It's not funny because it's true writes:

    Maybe Shaggy, but in that case you go to a church that encourages hate, bigotry and mass murder

  • March 19, 2008

    4:46 PM

    Maybe Obama plays in Peoria,--just not anywhere else writes:

    Why would anyone vote for Obama, given all those years he spent listening to his pastor who travels around with Louis Farrakhan, Minister of Nation of Islam, who promotes destruction of anything having to do with whites in America? Who really needs terrorists when we have poeple like this aspiring to the highest public office in the land? Huh?

    Why, indeed, should people trust Obama, when he knew how bad those speeches against the US were--and for 20 years?

    To top it all off, Obama tried to pass all this off as "history," with a phony speech intended to appeal to the emotions--oldest public speaking trick in the book! It's just history that's too recent that has come home to roost for Obama, and he knows it.

  • March 19, 2008

    4:50 PM

    Anonymous writes:

    I don't know what else Rev. Wright does besides preach. Usually the preacher is involved in the parish community. Does he raise money for the poor? Does he counsel troubled youth? I'd like to know more about Rev. Wright before I judge Obama and the Trinity congregation. The videos are an incomplete picture by any standard, except Fox News.

  • March 19, 2008

    4:53 PM

    Shaggy writes:

    04:40 PM,
    ??????

  • March 19, 2008

    4:54 PM

    history buff writes:

    That was me at 450.

  • March 19, 2008

    4:55 PM

    KW writes:

    From the politician/American dictionary cross reference guide:

    "Can't we just move past this"

    Translation: This predicamint I've placed myself in has me looking like an idiot and I have to find a way to deflect attention elsewhere.

    "Comprehensive Immigration Reform"

    Translation: I have absolutely no idea how to solve this problem so I'm using big words to deflect attention elswhere.

    That's all for now. Study up and we'll tackle some more hard to understand political doublespeak next week.

    Until then...

  • March 19, 2008

    4:55 PM

    Shaggy writes:

    04:40 PM,
    IS this you Buff?
    I don't think it is.....I have/had respect for you.....

  • March 19, 2008

    5:01 PM

    Shaggy writes:

    Didn't think that was you Buff....that said I don't care what good Wright has done in the past.....again...Is a person a good person even though he only beats his wife once in a while instead of every weekend?

  • March 19, 2008

    5:20 PM

    Anonymous writes:

    All Hail Barack Obama, the next President of the United States.

    Conservatives, Racists, Klansmen and Bigots are in for a very rough 8 years.

    But, their loss is America's gain.

    BARACK OBAMA ROCKS!

  • March 19, 2008

    5:35 PM

    Anonymous writes:

    5:20 Lay off the crack.

  • March 19, 2008

    5:40 PM

    Chris writes:

    The long winded and factually light speech aside, Obama has boxed himself in too tightly. He set the bar way too high and no degree of Clintonian parsing is going to relieve him of his culpability over the racist bigotry he has supported for decades, and the racist bigot he entrusted to working in his campaign until very recently.

    A simple reversal of letters ( D vs R ) tells the complete story on the hypocrisy of desperate Dumocrats as they try to spin this positive. Were a Republican embroiled under the exact same circumstances, Dimmys would be calling for immediate resignation. As it is, there are legions of apologists talking heads claiming this is all a big nothing, which directly belies Obama's own take on the seriousness of the situation.

    This all points to the dire straits the Dimms find themselves in. When the Liberal Mass Media begins reporting on the deep trouble brewing in their favorite Party, you know its gotta be baaad.

  • March 19, 2008

    5:55 PM

    Pastor John Hagee, Bigot and McCain Endorser writes:

    Hurricane Katrina was God’s judgment on New Orleans for hosting a gay pride parade.

  • March 19, 2008

    5:57 PM

    Pastor Rod Parsely, Bigot and McCain's Personal Spiritual Guide writes:

    Same-sex marriage is a brutal attack from the forces of darkness.

  • March 19, 2008

    6:02 PM

    history buff writes:

    That was not me at 440. I had to leave for home, and I usually don't blog from home, but I wanted to make sure that is clear.

    I've been arguing with reason and logic, and doing fine.

    The big point everyone misses, it wasn't Obama who is preaching, and there is a lot more to Christian community than an angry speech. I think I agree with 8dude. Rev. Wright was preaching to his congregation and his style seems to be to shake people from their apathy. His intentions are to address the issues in his church. He isn't addressing a tv audience like Jerry Falwell proclaiming that the liberal and the ACLU are responbible for 9/11. I don't interpret what Wright says as saying blacks are superior. I do get the inference from Falwell that he thought he was superior. Wright is exorting his congregation not to be passive, because I think there may be a feeling in his church that because of the poverty on the southside of Chicago, and because black people have been treated as less than full citizens for so long, that there is nothing that can be done about it. He is no MLK, but he may have his reasons for what he says.

  • March 19, 2008

    6:12 PM

    KW writes:

    hb - Which candidate belongs to Falwell's church?

    If MccCain was a twenty year follower of Robertson, Falwell, etc... I'd be on his butt like white on rice. The problem with making comparisons such as yours is nobody running for president is a card-carrying follower of the radical preachers you keep bringing up.

    It's like saying because Rosie O is a democrat that all dems need to denounce her as if they were responsible for her vile.

    Now if you're a close friend and card-carrying member of the Rosie O fan club then we'd be demanding explinations about your credibility as well.

    But if not, no sweat.

  • March 19, 2008

    6:19 PM

    Lawrence Pelot writes:

    Desperate comparisons to try to find parity to Republicans and un-connected looney pastors.

    It won't fly. There is no comparison to anything McCain is involved in.

    Stabbing at the wind. "Bbbbbbbut what about what that preacher said?"

    The candidate that transcends race is anything but. Obama is the candidate that embodies raw racism under the thin guise of "Liberation Gospel".

    He's done. And any Republican candidate running under similar circumstances likewise.

  • March 19, 2008

    6:24 PM

  • March 19, 2008

    6:25 PM

    Shaggy writes:

    Buff,
    Quick Q, Would you belong to a Church that preaches hate, racism, anti-america and anti-whitey?

    Please don't say Obama didn't know because we already know he did.

    This is hurting him, we don't know alot about him and he didn't want this to come out. Wright even told Obama he might want to distance himself from him if he makes it to the primaries. Obama agreed but instead of distancing himself he assigned him to his Negro committee.
    20 years speaks volumes.
    I kinda have a feeling his wife has a lot to do with what he does...assumption is all..
    The Obamas can only blame themselves for this....

  • March 19, 2008

    6:30 PM

    Quick Question writes:

    Would Shaggy go to a church that promoted bigotry and discrimination against gay people?

  • March 19, 2008

    6:34 PM

    Chris writes:

    Lawrence: Even the liberal media is starting to talk about the looming disasters parked on the sidelines for the Dems. The feverish spin is sounding more wooden each day the apologists try to plug the leaks on this sinking ship.

    I predict Independents are moving away from Failure Party as we speak.

  • March 19, 2008

    6:41 PM

    This is too good writes:

    Yo cris - I've been busting my gut ever since I read in these blogs (jw or jay I recall) that the R's are going to try to swiftboat Obama. Isn't it obvious that the Big O and his angry wife have swiftboated themselves better than anyone else could? Hilarious.

  • March 19, 2008

    6:47 PM

    Where'd all those apologists go? writes:

    Boy, obamas grandmama and his equally white momma must be proud of junior after he outed the elder as a racist during a nationally broadcast speech.
    Has anyone ever seen a picture of Obama with his closest blood relatives at any political appearance?

    Hello?

    (chirp, chirp)

  • March 19, 2008

    6:47 PM

    Shaggy writes:

    Quick Question,
    No I wouldn't go to a church that promoted bigotry and discrimination against gay people, nor would I go to a church that promotes hatred, racism, anti-America and anti-whitey.
    Would you??????

  • March 19, 2008

    7:03 PM

    Shaggy writes:

    BTW Everyone,
    I'm gonna throw this into the mix and turn the tables....
    What would have happened if it was found out that McCain belonged to a White National Church who had a non-negotiable commitment to Whites????

  • March 19, 2008

    7:09 PM

    Everyone writes:

    McCain DOES belong to a church and DOES have a spiritual advisor that advocates hate, bigotry and discrimination against gay people

  • March 19, 2008

    7:13 PM

    THAT was easy writes:

    Here ya go: No, no no! McCain would've been forced to resign, and then he would've been lynched. It's in the bible!

  • March 19, 2008

    7:32 PM

    Pastor John Hagee, Bigot and McCain Endorser writes:

    Military confrontation with Iran is foretold in the Bible as a necessary precondition for the Second Coming

  • March 19, 2008

    8:04 PM

    oh ye of little faith writes:

    Oh? Obama aligns himself with a racist pastor who calls our country the KKK of A, and BTW, condemns gays to h-e-l-l, and then claims same pastor as family. Puh-leeze.

  • March 19, 2008

    8:05 PM

    Pastor Rod Parsely, Bigot, Sexist, Apparent Lunatic and McCain's Personal Spiritual Guide writes:

    Do you know the difference between a terrorist and a woman with PMS? You can negotiate with a terrorist.

    All hurricanes are acts of God, because God controls the heavens. I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God, and they are -- were recipients of the judgment of God for that. The newspaper carried the story in our local area that was not carried nationally that there was to be a homosexual parade there on the Monday that the Katrina came. And the promise of that parade was that it was going to reach a level of sexuality never demonstrated before in any of the other Gay Pride parades. So I believe that the judgment of God is a very real thing.

  • March 19, 2008

    8:15 PM

    Rev Jeremiah Wright spews hate, and it's spozed to be ok? writes:

    Um, do you know the difference between a terrorist and a testosterone-crazed man? You can negotiate with a terrorist.

    But "No, no, no! We bombed Hiroshima and Nagasak. . .and we never batted an eye. . .and now we are indignant?"--Rev. Jeremiah Wright

    Guess Rev Wright never heard of Pearl Harbor. . .and Obama calls this guy family? OMG. OMG.

  • March 19, 2008

    8:37 PM

    both sides have hateful preachers in their corners writes:

    Why don't we just keep religion out of politics altogether because

  • March 19, 2008

    8:47 PM

    Yeah the Republican side's hate is alright writes:

    Hatin gay people and muslims is just fine with jesus

  • March 19, 2008

    8:52 PM

    def writes:

    This church is pretty amazing
    because it is one where

    Obamas white relatives don't want to go to.

    and even Oprah disavows.

    This doesn't look good for a future Presidential candidate.

    Btw the way Clinton is up 12% in Penn now.

  • March 19, 2008

    9:10 PM

    Pastor John Hagee, Bigot, America Hater and McCain Endorser writes:

    As a nation, America is under the curse of God.

  • March 19, 2008

    9:44 PM

    Posted by Pastor Rod Parsely, Violent Bigot and McCain's Personal Spiritual Guide writes:

    Islam must be destroyed

  • March 19, 2008

    9:59 PM

    benn writes:

    she needs 20% in Penn to have a shot, and this will blow over by then. It will leave some scars, but Obama will bounce back, I guarantee it.

  • March 19, 2008

    10:12 PM

    benn writes:

    Does anyone think the other candidates should be worried now?

    The spotlight WILL shift to them as the media loses ammo on this Wright thing. I am fairly certain that pictures, endorsements, statements of support (etc) will surface for both Clinton and McCain linking them to some pretty extreme people?

    I doubt that it will be as big as Obama (people will be tired of it by then), but will have an impact.

    For example - McCain gave a speech at Falwell's college he runs... is that not tacit approval of the things that Falwell preaches?

    "“AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals”"

    "“The idea that religion and politics don't mix was invented by the Devil to keep Christians from running their own country”"

    "“If you're not a born-again Christian, you're a failure as a human being”"

    "“God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve”

    I understand many of you hold the position that this isn't nearly equatable. But do a little exercise for me - Take all the reasons you are frustrated by Obama, all your reasoning. Now, hold onto those reasons and frustrations, and think about McCain and his approval of Falwell (This seems logical to me along the same lines as Obama - Why would he give that commencement if he didn't agree with him... right?). Does it inspire the same anger?

    This is a serious, non-flame bait question.

  • March 19, 2008

    10:26 PM

    your typical right wing nut writes:

    "Why would he give that commencement if he didn't agree with him... right?). Does it inspire the same anger?

    This is a serious, non-flame bait question"

    Benn

    It doesn't because we believe in the same ideology. Our church is bigger too
    and we hate the whole world

  • March 19, 2008

    10:29 PM

    Where'd all those apologists go? writes:

    Just as I thought.

    No one has seen any political appearance photos of Obama and his blood relatives, because he goes to a church that hates whitey and he defends a pastor who justifies hateful rhetoric by historical injustice.

    The world and this country has moved ahead from those dark days, but some haters hang on to further their bigoted agenda.

    Michelle Obama gave us an early window into the ideology of this potential first couple. Now we simply connect the dots after learning of the hypocrisy of their close relationship with the Church of Hate and wonder how on God's Green Earth we could ever vote for such a person to lead us.

    No we won't
    No we won't

  • March 19, 2008

    10:33 PM

    Republican Hate Churches are bigger than Democratic Hate Churches writes:

    Jesus hates gay people and teenage girls who have abortions

  • March 19, 2008

    10:35 PM

    Conway writes:

    Obama's speech, which I, personally, found eloquent and compelling, provides yet another opportunity for us to observe that reality is malleable, that people see pretty much what they want to see and hear pretty much what they want to hear. Just as the testosterone-beclouded male hears "Yes" when the target of his lust has said "No," so those who are predisposed to dislike Obama, and one hopes against hope it is not simply because of his phenotypical race, hear his speech as being "plastic," and those who are predisposed to like him, hear his speech as being "fantastic." Hence the pithy bit of folk wisdom: "Opinions are like assholes; everybody has one." As for the Reverend Jeremiah Wright and his outdated, 60's, Stokely Carmichael, H. Rapp Brown, Leonard Jeffries rhetoric, I fear his religious convictions have, as religious convictions are prone to do, eroded his ability to think rationally, and that his rantings are the kind of thing to which Shakespeare was referring when he wrote, "...sound and fury, signifying nothing."

  • March 19, 2008

    10:50 PM

    Pastor Rod Parsely, Violent Bigot and McCain's Personal Spiritual Guide writes:

    Planned Parenthood is an organization of Nazis

  • March 20, 2008

    2:18 AM

    Anonymous writes:

    "Ive always said I though Hillary would be the superior candidate, and I still think so. However, as Obama's POLICIES are almost exactly the same as Hillary's, I can support him as well."

    So what you are saying is it doesn't matter if its Stalin in a pant suit or Hitler with a suntan so long as you get your guvimint cheez?

  • March 20, 2008

    2:37 AM

    Anonymous writes:

    I dont think Jesus hates anyone but he wouldn't condemn people who have abortions nearly as much as those who advocate for abortion.

  • March 20, 2008

    6:44 AM

    and there you have it writes:

    Shelby Steele-Wall Street Journal March 18, 2008

    “...nothing could be more dangerous to Mr. Obama's political aspirations than the revelation that he, the son of a white woman, sat Sunday after Sunday -- for 20 years -- in an Afrocentric, black nationalist church in which his own mother, not to mention other whites, could never feel comfortable. His pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, is a challenger who goes far past Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson in his anti-American outrage ("God damn America").

    How does one "transcend" race in this church? The fact is that Barack Obama has fellow-traveled with a hate-filled, anti-American black nationalism all his adult life, failing to stand and challenge an ideology that would have no place for his own mother. And what portent of presidential judgment is it to have exposed his two daughters for their entire lives to what is, at the very least, a subtext of anti-white vitriol?

    What could he have been thinking? Of course he wasn't thinking. He was driven by insecurity, by a need to "be black" despite his biracial background. And so fellow-traveling with a little race hatred seemed a small price to pay for a more secure racial identity. And anyway, wasn't this hatred more rhetorical than real?

    But now the floodlight of a presidential campaign has trained on this usually hidden corner of contemporary black life: a mindless indulgence in a rhetorical anti-Americanism as a way of bonding and of asserting one's blackness. Yet Jeremiah Wright, splashed across America's television screens, has shown us that there is no real difference between rhetorical hatred and real hatred.

    No matter his ultimate political fate, there is already enough pathos in Barack Obama to make him a cautionary tale. His public persona thrives on a manipulation of whites (bargaining), and his private sense of racial identity demands both self-betrayal and duplicity. His is the story of a man who flew so high, yet neglected to become himself.”

  • March 20, 2008

    6:52 AM

    Sheesh writes:

    Sure, I want to vote for a man who drops the dime on his grandma on national TV that she is a racist.

    He has much more respect for the Rev. Wrong and Hillary Clinton, allowing them a chance to defend themselves against his attacks.

    Now that is presidential material, NOT.

  • March 20, 2008

    8:19 AM

    JW writes:

    "So what you are saying is it doesn't matter if its Stalin in a pant suit or Hitler with a suntan so long as you get your guvimint cheez? "

    Strawman fallacy. Not to mention, if youre comparing Hillary and Obama to Stalin, youre either incredibly stupid, or more than slightly off.


    On a slightly different subject, Hillary has now released the archives, and Obama's baseless claims that she was hiding something are so much Rovian water under the bridge. But the question remains; Why would she have delayed their release, if in fact she actually did?

    The answer can be found in this...article...I suppose. Its damn sure not journalism.

    http://www6.comcast.net/news/articles/politics/2008/03/20/Clinton.Papers.Analysis/


    So, it now appears that these records which were so important to Obama that he leveled baseless claims of her "Hiding" were not released for a different reason...

    Media BULLSHIT.

    WTF? Did we need an article detailing her physical location during Bill's extra marital Bj's? Is this something that quallifies, or disquallifies one from office? Did we need to be reminded of her Healthcare failure and of course have it rehashed in a decidedly negative light despite the fact that in the business world, she'd be considered even more likely to succeed on a second try? Do we need to have suggestively negative questions about her actuall experience regarding foreign policy during her years as first lady, despite the fact that there is no conclusion apparently there? Did we need a strawman argument about how she supported NAFTA, and now is trying to distance herself (when her real argument is that it needs to be adjusted, which is the process EVERY large business in the world goes through on EVERY policy they implement).


    This shit is ridiculous. With media like this, its no wonder an MBA like Gr8 can be sucked into the "Obama is a saint and Hillary would throw anyone under the bus" belief, even though hes got the tools to avoid it, the evidence says otherwise, and he should damn well know better.

    Now, you wingnuts (and even those of you who are usually smart, but have been sucked in by negative media BS) can talk about her pant suit, where she was during bj's and whether it was worse that she was in another room of the WH, or over seas, and rehash her failed healthcare reform that most of you supported when it wasnt expressly labeled "hillary care", and despite the fact that initial failure in the business world actually makes it easier to get funding for a second try because EXPERIENCE is valuable. Don't forget to throw out a strawman fallacy regarding her NAFTA position, and talk about her "cackle".


    And to think, I used to wonder how in the hell we could end up with a guy like GW in the white house.

  • March 20, 2008

    8:45 AM

    am 760 writes:

    The hyprocrisy of the right here is UNBELIEVABLE. Your all on this guilt by association rant.
    Yet you don't think twice about bush's family ties to the Bin Laden family or Bush's ties in WWII to the Nazi party.
    Again I don't have time right now, but just google, Bush's ties to Bin Laden family, and Bush's ties to Nazi party, and its all right there public knowledge.
    Yet, Obamas going to a church w/ a Preacher who tells the truth is worse.
    I would strongly encourage those on the left to quit blogging on this topic as its just a distraction from real issues. Go blog about the 5 year anniversary or the iraq war, or the recession. This blog is a bunch of BS over nothing.

  • March 20, 2008

    8:53 AM

    Old Geezer writes:

    The Obamas are obviously disgruntled black people who are just now becoming proud of their Country.
    It is very apparent Michelle Obama is a racist who hates her Country.
    btw Obamas, I really like the fact you take your children to this church to grow up and hate whitey.
    If the black people would actually educate their young with positive ideas we could have wiped out racism two generations ago but instead they teach their young to hate america and hate whitey.
    Churches like Obamas don't want racial discrepancies to go away, they preach it instead.
    For obama to refuse to give up this race/hate filled church will be his own chickens coming home to roost.

    Obama is not being railroaded by guilt of association, he is being held responsible by the people because of his poor decision making process. He chose to have this race baiter in his life, he knew what Wright was all about before he chose him to be his spiritual adviser.
    Obama refuses to openly denounce this guy and distance himself from him.

  • March 20, 2008

    9:24 AM

    frankmitchell writes:

    “Osama bin Laden accused Pope Benedict XVI of helping in a "new Crusade" against Islam and warned of a "severe" reaction to European publications of cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad that insulted many Muslims.” Rocky Mountain News, 20 March

    The above pretty much gives the lie to the Reverend Wright's contention that 9/11 was a “chickens coming home to roost” response to the US’ evil foreign policy. And if only the US would change its policy then the terrorists would not want to bomb us.

  • March 20, 2008

    9:39 AM

    history buff writes:

    There is enough hate on all sides in this country to make most people sick. It is not surprising that there are people wanting to make a new blame game for hatred and racism. But there are far more serious and immediate problems facing our country.

    David Wessel in today's WSJ

    "Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke and Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson were willing to risk as much as $30 Billion of taxpayer money -- without congressional approval -- so that J.P. Morgan Chase could buy Bear Stearns cheap at an auction in which it was the sole bidder. But a taxpayer-backed rescue of homeowners whose mortgages are worth more than their homes is unwise and unwarranted.

    "It's hard to fashion the sound bite that deflects the inevitable question: Why a 'bailout' for Wall Street, and none for homeowners?"

    While everyone is so sensitive and outraged about hatred, the incompetents in the White House continue to send this country down the tube.

  • March 20, 2008

    9:43 AM

    Shaggy writes:

    I just wonder what Obamas groupies are going to do when their plastic rock star falls from his fifteen minutes of fame.

    Are they going to pull another L.A. riot?
    Set some fires to businesses?
    Are they going to spread the racism and attack any white folk that happens to be an innocent bystander?

    Oh I know...this will be a perfect excuse to do some looting....Score a nice HD big screen T.V.

    It is sad but I am probably right....


  • March 20, 2008

    10:03 AM

    benn writes:

    Shaggy, you're never right

  • March 20, 2008

    10:05 AM

    history buff writes:

    I'm wondering how far the economy is going to fall before people realize how dire things are.

    Gregg Hitt, in today's WSJ, reporting on Congressional action following the Bear Stearns bailout, writes:

    "Among the questions of interest to lawmakers: What should be the tax treatment of losses associated with such a deal? And what is the potential taxpayer exposure? Did the Fed's rescue ensure a better deal for Bear Stearns insiders than bankruptcy?"

    For those who are worried about socialism, this is evidence that socialism from the right, often known as national socialism, has a foothold in the policies of the Republican party.

  • March 20, 2008

    10:12 AM

    Jeff writes:

    Obamma's refusal in recognizing and respecting our National Anthem needs some attention. Every other member on stage recognizes the appropriate action but Obamma looks a little lost. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU9iCANi02o

    Turns out he's more than lost, he's not Pro-American as his explanation reveals: "As I've said about the flag pin, I don't want to be perceived as taking sides," Obama said. "There are a lot of people in the world to whom the American flag is a symbol of oppression. And the anthem itself conveys a war-like message. You know, the bombs bursting in air and all. It should be swapped for something less parochial and less bellicose. I like the song 'I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing.' If that were our anthem, then I might salute it."

    'Taking sides'...!?! 'I'd like to Teach the world to sing'...!?

    As a prior US Navy Veteran this guy would never get my vote. He obviously doesn't understand or appreciate the sacrifices made by so many who've protected and stood by this flag

  • March 20, 2008

    10:19 AM

    JMH writes:

    This whole thread has gotten silly.

    What we have are a few wingnuts that wouldn't vote for a Democrat, even if he were Jesus Christ, trying to pin something on the one man that scares the hell out of them. They know Obama whoops on McSame in the general election. They know that Obama represents the "NEW" direction from politics that America has been screaming for. They know that John McSame's subborn support for "stay the course in Iraq" will win him no new votes especailly now that violence is starting to increase in Iraq again (I guess we are going to have to borrow more money from China since our bribes to the Sunni & Shiite groups must be running out) and they know that America doesn't want a continuation of ALL of the failed policies from this administration, that John McCain will surely continue.

    Look we get it guys, you aren't going to vote for Obama, never were. But the only chance you guys would have with the NeoCon track record of the last 7 years is if you could convince the general public that Obama is a "Malcom X diciple that hates whitey", especially since the LIE that "Obama is a acually a radical muslim agent" blew up in your faces!

    Now for some honesty... I would like to know from those on the right that have some honor (KW, Hogar, etc... don't even try to chime in shaggy or ben, we all know you are lying SOB's and have no honor) when it comes to the comments of Obama's preacher, which we will all agree are wrong... Are you gonna say you have NEVER went on a rant that was wrong or even racist when frustrated or angry about something?

    I will admit I have... Growing up in an all black town in NYC you can bet I have used the word "nigger" quite a few times when angry about a certain event or action done by a black man against myself or someone I cared for or I have even lashed out against illegal immigrants due to my frustration with the illegal immigration problem and in my anger have painted all these people in broad strokes of "border jumping, sucking off our country, freeloading bastards, etc etc."

    Now if you can say you have never lost your cool and stooped to these levels, fine. But if you are human and you have in fact let your anger and frustration get the best of you and subsequently took the low road, can you not understand where some of these controversial comments by this revenend may have come from? The black community has alot to be angry and frustrated about and some of the blame falls on them, but not all of it. Especially with the older generation as Mr. Obama points out. These people lived the formative years of their lives under oppression, segrigation and open cold racism. Can you not understand where some of these outragious outbursts may have come from?

    I would be very interested to hear back from those of you I may disagree with but that I know are honorable and forthright.

  • March 20, 2008

    10:28 AM

    benn writes:

    Jeff,

    You know Wright is a retired Marine and Vietnam combat Vet... right?

  • March 20, 2008

    10:31 AM

    Shaggy writes:

    "don't even try to chime in shaggy or ben, we all know you are lying SOB's and have no honor"---JMH

    Ewww...One of Omamas hate filled loons explodes with a hate filled strawman fallacy....hehehe

    Will you be one of the first to score a big screen T.V. when your plastic rock star falls on his lying two faced mug????
    Nah...you are to hate filled, I pick you to do some arson torching or club a few whiteys....

    Obama did this to him self yet his hate filled groupies are going to blame the Republicans....


    Hey Benn,
    Is that your excuse for defending the racial bastard?
    Are you calling him a hero?

  • March 20, 2008

    10:36 AM

    jay writes:

    With such vile rhetoric coming from the spiritual advisors in both the mccain and obama camps, the only realistic solution is to keep religion out of politics. Since that is probably not going to happen, the next best thing is to choose a candidate who is not going to allow these ignorant, dogma driven, archaic ideas to influence policy decisions. Judging from the Republican track record on abortion, equal rights, stem cell, education, faithbased funding, birth control, etc etc etc....they seem to be the obvious loser when this kind of logic is used to choose a candidate.

    pretty simple equation really

    in fact...you could even say that the folks who are up in arms about the rhetoric coming from the spiritual advisors of either camp...would be hypocrites for voting republican...unless of course they were saying it was ok to hate only certain people...or advocate violence against certain people...

    so...looking over the posts on this thread...it's pretty easy to see who the hypocrites truly are...

  • March 20, 2008

    10:40 AM

    Jeff writes:

    benn,

    Did you watch the video? Barrack refuses to follow the US legal code (U.S. Code: Title 36 : Section 301) at official events when the National Anthem is played in paying respect to our flag and traditions.

    Is there room on this board for political protest or is this just the latest sign-up location for the Obamma-Bandwagon?

  • March 20, 2008

    10:41 AM

    benn writes:

    Nope - I'm not defending Wright, I'm defending OBAMA.

    I don't care what some pastor said

  • March 20, 2008

    10:42 AM

    JW writes:

    "Ewww...One of Omamas hate filled loons explodes with a hate filled strawman fallacy....hehehe"

    Good god. Shaggy, that's not a strawman fallacy. Its an ad hominem fallacy.

  • March 20, 2008

    10:53 AM

    Jeff writes:

    benn you idiot,

    This video is of Obamma, not Wright.

    I guess if the post is from one of us right-wingers, the left is excused from doing any research.

    Continue to stick your head in the sand. Us 'Righties' will do the hard work for you.

  • March 20, 2008

    10:59 AM

    JMH writes:

    I thought you weren't going to talk to me anymore you scared little girl. You sir, represent all that is wrong with America today... you are ignorant of facts, scared of anything different from you, have absolutly no courage or conviction as you you prove over and over supporting the idea that "the ends justify the means", you are EASILY lead as you know nothing about anything that Sean Hannity doesn't tell you, you result into 3rd grade name calling when backed into a corner and when asked to answer a simple question or are backed into a corner, you pout and while like a little bitch and you lie over and over, get caught and then try to blame jay or everyone else.

    I have absolutly no respect for you! You are just a "NeoCon", chicken hawk punk that has probably never stood up for anything if it ment you may have to take a shot back! You are the definition of a coward and a fool. I hope you will do us all a favor and leave this country you so dispise!

    That said, I do have respect for those I disagree with like KW and Hogar since they at least know what they are talking about and don't constitantly act like a spoiled child and are willing to give other's opinions a fair hearing and will try to argue back with things like facts and reason (usually anyway, though we may all be guilty of letting emotions get the best of us from time to time).

    You live in a closed little world that seems very detached from reality (also makes me laugh that you still don't know what a "Strawman fallicy" is. I guess I could say you are always good for a laugh). If I were one of the brighter ones on the right, I would ask you to quit posting as you (and ben) singlehandly make IQ's of the right-wing in this country drop about 20 points! I am glad I am not some of the other posters on this site from the right as this whole post is about trying to pin "guilt by association" on Obama. I wonder? Do the smarter righties on this blog want to have "guilt by association" with you? I'm betting not. I feel really bad for you...

  • March 20, 2008

    11:02 AM

    JMH writes:

    That is directed at shaggy by the way... if you couldn't tell!

  • March 20, 2008

    11:06 AM

    Shaggy writes:

    Jeff,
    Isn't that video of Obama pathetic?

    I wonder if Obamas wife went back to hating her Country now that America is starting to see the side of them they didn't want to expose.

    They have no one to blame but themselves.
    However I will bet when he falls he will come out and blame America for not being ready for a black President....He will turn it into shame on the white people.
    Even though it is HIS behavior and HIS personal decisions that caused his demise.
    Yet he still can't see it....


    JW....Snooor...come on man...with all that self described narcissism of yours, one would think you could come up with more intelligent posts/slams.

    Quit your pouting JMH....

  • March 20, 2008

    11:07 AM

    benn writes:

    Jeff - Stop being a dumbass, I was responding to Shaggy. Get a clue bud.

  • March 20, 2008

    11:10 AM

    jay44 writes:

    by the way shaggy...are you going to continue to run from me like a little girl or are you going to answer that pesky question you've been avoiding for a couple of weeks now?

    you still going to vote along party lines like a good little rushian footsoldier or are you actually going to take into account policy stances and track record this time?

    what accomplishments of the bush administration excite you enough to warrant a vote for a third term under mccain?

    still waiting

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/church.asp

  • March 20, 2008

    11:12 AM

    jay writes:

    I have a couple of .44's but that's a typo, not a new moniker

    shaggy...i truly hope you can grow a pair and answer the question

  • March 20, 2008

    11:17 AM

    JW writes:

    "JW....Snooor...come on man...with all that self described narcissism of yours, one would think you could come up with more intelligent posts/slams."

    self described narcissism. Hmm.

    Shaggy, do you understand English? When words are put together in a sentence, can you figure out what they mean?
    I ask because it doesnt appear so. You say I engage in "self described narsissim" which means I call myself a narcissist. When have I ever called myself a narcissist? Are you sure you didnt mean "all that narcissism of yours"? Its the "Self described" part that means I call myself a narcissist, just in case you need an explanation of, you know, basic english.

    As for the point of your post; yes, we all understand very well at this point that pesky things like being correct do not concern you.

  • March 20, 2008

    11:19 AM

    Hillary will win--just watch writes:

    There are plenty of wingnuts who will vote for a democrat, and plenty of left-wingers who will vote for a republican. So? Obama shows his true colors, and suddenly his supporters get rabid and whine about how much Obama scares--what--people who like to think for themselves? No,no,no!, as Obama's anti-Jew, anti-white, anti-America hate-promoting pastor would say. No, no, no! Obama won't get the nomination, and betcha Clinton will win. It's in the bible!

  • March 20, 2008

    11:23 AM

    What would Rod Parsely, McCain Spiritual Advisor say? writes:

    I'm an anti-muslim, gay hating bigot

  • March 20, 2008

    11:31 AM

    JMH writes:

    jay,

    You aren't going to get an answer, hate to break it to you. Sean Hannity hasn't told him what to say yet!

    JW,

    We both point out he doesn't know what a "strawman" is yet (which is just unbelievable at this point, but I've figured out that we can't expect much from such a narrow mind) and all he can do is come up with some BIG words that don't make sense and bark back like the little poodle he is. Isn't he cute?

  • March 20, 2008

    11:44 AM

    CC writes:

    This whole debacle is hilarious and I love it!

    Nothing will be better then watching the DNC tear itself apart this summer. Can you imagine all those entitlement junkies, who cry racism and whine about being disenfranchised on a good day, when the nomination is stolen from Obama and given to Hillary? The DNC knows BO doesn't stand a chance in the general election after this! And Hillary has engineered every bit of it.

    The DNC will decide between integrity in the nomination process (hello 2000/2004 "count every vote) or having a chance in he ll of winning in November. Knowing the slime at the top, they'll side with having a chance at the White House over respecting the will of the sheeple.

    BO supportes will take to the streets (OUR STREETS) stomping their feet and pounding their fists. They will likely be riots, looting, and all sorts of mayhem.

    And how will Denver (DPD) respond? They're already afraid of racial issues!!! Nothing they can do to control the violence will be viewed as justified.

    If I worked for DPD I'd quit. If I lived in DT I would plan on being away for the week. If I were the mayor I would tell the DNC they're no longer invited.

    Denver will get what it deserves for lying with dogs and inviting the Demorats to town.

    Colorado will be a red state for the next two decades!

  • March 20, 2008

    11:53 AM

    am 760 writes:

    Jeff,Shag, why don't you let us know why its okay to support someone who actually does business w/ the bin ladens's, remember them, the family responsible for 9/11 (although thats even questionalbe if you read bin ladens statements about the attack)but when a pastor points out the hypocrisy thats going on in america, holly shit thats just horrible.
    You clowns are so brainwashed, what else can be said....
    http://tvnewslies.org/html/bin_laden_ties.html

    http://www.oilempire.us/bush-binladen.html

    Why isnt' this plastered all over the so called liberal media,like they are doing to Obama? Maybe we can put that liberal media bias myth to rest now also.

  • March 20, 2008

    12:08 PM

    Jeff writes:

    Kiss my ass benn,

    Watch the video and then tell me that the America you profess to love wouldn't be changed forever, in a negative way, if Obamma is elected.

    If he won't stand up for America when his candidacy is on the line what makes you think he'll stand up for America against Iran, Russia, Korea, or Syria.

    The terrorists are salivating hoping he'll win as they've learned America's weakness.... America's treasonous, trecherous left. No fight in them, ever.

  • March 20, 2008

    12:31 PM

    Hogar De Vuelta (العودة) aka ignorant strawman warmonger racist withsome friends writes:

    JMH,

    I grew up in an environment where I was exposed to brilliant people from all over the world. The first time I heard a racist joke, I did not get it, because I was never exposed to those sort of ideas at home. As an immigrant I do not have the sort of social baggage that obviously exists here. I can see the wrong on both ends of the spectrum, and in my opinion, the pendulum has swung from the point where the KKK was accepted in many parts of the country, to the point where Obama tries to defend Wright. I am not trying to equate the two, obviously the KKK was oders of magnitude worse, but Wright is not helping to center the issue, he has simply worked to swing the advantage to the other side. Obama claims to want to lead the charge on uniting people and therefore his actions and associations need to be above where you wants to lead people. Instead the divide between his action and his rhetoric grows daily.

    Jay,

    Certainly the RINOs of recent years have done tremendous damage to their own cause and they certainly deserve all the trouble they get. That does not change the fact that people are at present more likely to vote for McCain the either Obama or Hillary. I think the three of them are all liberal, with McCain and Hillary pretty much neck and neck on the liberal flavor of their policies, and Obama flying solo on the left wing. What is happening to Obama right now is that his moderate rhetoric is being shouted down by his radical behaviour.

  • March 20, 2008

    12:42 PM

    history buff writes:

    HDV

    It's good that you qualify your prognostication with "at present" because the uncertainty in the economy will bring that issue to the forefront with the war. As the previous Clinton said, it's the economy stupid.

  • March 20, 2008

    12:45 PM

    jay writes:

    hogar i disagree....as mccain represesnts a third bush term to a tee....something to which the VAST majority of americans are opposed...thus the need to do everything in the far right's power to avoid discussing the issues....just like shag

  • March 20, 2008

    12:52 PM

    Ben- Former Democrat writes:

    Background Check - Mrs. Obama- There's nothing sacred when it comes to politics! Michelle Obama, wife of Democrat front runner Barack Obama, shocked a lot of people over the weekend when she said this: 'For the first time in my adult lifetime I am proud of my country. Wow! That takes my breath away. Mrs. Obama is 44 years old, so for over roughly 24 years of adulthood, taking her at her word, she has never been proud of our nation. Is there a theme here? You may remember that last year Senator Obama said he refused to wear a flag lapel pin because it represented a substitute for true patriotism.' And what precisely is true patriotism? According to Senator Barack Hussein Obama, it is opposing the war in Iraq. Apparently nothin g America did from 1982 to 2008 caused her heart to swell with pride. Not our successful effort to defeat Soviet communism and liberate millions of people in Eastern Europe? Not our relief efforts around the world, through which we spent billions to help the downtrodden? Not anything? When she learned with all the rest of us how her fellow citizens on United Flight 93 bravely fought back against jihadist hijackers and prevented another disaster on September 11th, did she not fill up with pride? As Americans of all races and classes rallied together in defense of our nation in the aftermath of September 11th, did her spirit not jump with love for her homeland? Apparently not. The Obamas are living examples of the American Dream. Both Michelle Obama and her husband have Ivy League degrees. They make a joint income of over One Million Dollars a year. They live lives that most ordinary Americans can only dream of. Yet, Mrs. Obama, who wants to b e First Lady, has been unable to find the pride in America that millions of ordinary Americans feel every day. Sadly, her attitude is not rare among leftwing American elites. We are 'educating' millions of Americans to be Globalists first and foremost, and we are doing precious little about educating our children to be proud and Unashamed Americans. The Obamas are flying high politically right now, but I don't believe many Americans will want to cast their votes this November for a couple so out of touch with traditional American values. For the first time in my adult life, I am proud of my country, Michelle Obama.....'What she meant was, this is the first time that she's been proud of the politics of America, Barack Obama HOWEVER, nowhere in there does she leave space for, allude to, or specify a reference to American politics. She's a Princeton and Harvard educated lawyer, and she can't specify between her country and its politics??? ALSO, Why Is Michelle Obama's Princeton Thesis restricted until November 5th? 1985 Princeton senior Thesis entitled: Princeton-Educated Blacks and the Black Community, http://libweb5.princeton.edu/theses/thesesid.asp?ID=98 Princeton University Senior Theses Full Record TITLE: Princeton Educated Blacks and the Black Community [Restricted until November 5, 2008] (96 pages). AUTHOR: Michelle LaVaughn Robinson (1985), Sociology Department ADVISOR: Not available LOCATED AT: Mudd Library. Michelle LaVaughn Robinson Obama lamented that white professors and classmates always saw her as 'Black first and a student second. She had surveyed alumni to see whether they sacrificed their commitment to other blacks on the altar of success, and foresaw for herself an uneasy future: further integration and/or assimilation into a White cultural and social structure that will only allow me to remain on the periphery of society; never becoming a full participant'... As Michelle Obama wrote in her thesis introduction, 'My experiences at Princeton has made me far more aware of my Blackness than ever before. I have found that at Princeton no matter how liberal and open-minded some of my White professors and classmates try to be toward me, I sometimes feel like a visitor on campus; as if I really don't belong'... Michelle Obama was guided in her choice of thesis topic by a consuming concern that her success might compromise her black identity. As she wrote in her conclusion: 'I wondered whether or not my education at Princeton would affect my identification with the Black community. I hoped that these findings would help me conclude that despite the high degree of identification with Whites as a result of the educational and occupational path that Black Princeton alumni follow, the alumni would still maintain a certain level of identification with the black community. However, these findings do not support this possibility. Michelle Obama's fears of losing touch with her roots without ever being embraced into the mainstream led her to promise, in her thesis introduction, to actively utilize my resources to benefit the Black community. Her thesis is the ONLY one on the 449-result long list *restricted until a specific date: November 5th. What's the significance of November 5th? Well, it's a Wednesday. Oh, and it's the day after the General Election!!!!!!

  • March 20, 2008

    1:15 PM

    jay writes:

    Thanks benny...we can always count on you to post the crap that's been making the rounds on the far right extremist blogs

  • March 20, 2008

    1:40 PM

    Ben JW's master writes:

    Pinochio, Far right extremist blogs? That speaks volumes about your left wing kookery. I know you are adverse to the truth, but my little wooden friend, this is mainstream news. I think your pot smoking is getting to you.

  • March 20, 2008

    1:46 PM

    jay-former republican writes:

    benny...surely you're not denying you gleaned that little diatribe off of one of your infamous far right wing websites are you? be careful....remember...I know how to use the google and already know the answer to this question...

    http://money.cnn.com/2008/03/20/news/economy/recession_forecast/index.htm?eref=rss_topstories

  • March 20, 2008

    1:58 PM

    Ben-Watching Pinochio's nose grow writes:

    Pinochio, I sure am.
    You know how to use Google? Then why don't you use it to answer people's questions when they call you on your your radical anti-American left wing BS and smear? Oh, right cuz it's radical anti-american left wing BS and smear.

  • March 20, 2008

    2:10 PM

    Ben's Border Street writes:

    "Inconvenient truths" for Pinochio's willful ignorance.
    http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/04/Dobbs.Sept5/index.html

    "The American southwest is seems to be slowly returning to the jurisdiction of Mexico without a shot being fired."

    EXCELSIOR, July 20, 1982

    "Demographically, socially and culturally, the reconquista of the Southwest United States... is well underway."
    Samuel Huntington, Harvard University 2004

  • March 20, 2008

    2:25 PM

    KW writes:

    I'm sure jay knows how to google. And in more ways than one.

    Where his problem lies is with providing a link to confirm his cut & paste hasn't been jay-edited.

    The funniest part is he never answers direct questions yet chastises people for not answering his accusations as if they were questions.

    Then there's his multiple personality disorder that compels him to post under umpteen different aliases.

    Then there's the... Oh I'd better stop now. This thread isn't big enough to list all of jay's short comings.

  • March 20, 2008

    2:34 PM

    jay writes:

    don't pout guys

    benny...again...I found that little diatribe on several WAY far right wing extremist websites...so again...thanks for always keeping us up to date on what's going on in the far reaches of the FAR right wing side of the political spectrum

    keep up the good work

    kw...by the way...you never did answer the question that shaggy's been running from for weeks now...

    which accomplishments of w's track record wants you to cast a vote for a third term under mccain?

    you guys better get your respective heads together and come up with an answer this one...it's going to keep popping up all the time in this election year.

  • March 20, 2008

    2:43 PM

    KW writes:

    See, right there. Jay just posted another accusation and tried to masquerade it as a question.

    Thanks for visual aid there jaybird. Great example.

  • March 20, 2008

    2:45 PM

    jay writes:

    you mean I "accused" you of preparing a vote for mccain, kw?

    stop running. it won't hurt much.

  • March 20, 2008

    2:56 PM

    Ben- Former Democrat writes:

    "benny...again...I found that little diatribe on several WAY far right wing extremist websites..."

    Uh-huh that's why you are not providing link with your post Pinochio? lol

    You are THE biggest lying sack of horsemanure I have seen on a blog, but it is fun to kick over the proverbial turds you hide under and watch you scurry to find the next one.

  • March 20, 2008

    3:00 PM

    jay-former republican writes:

    now come on benny-never dem....don't pout because you got caught with rush's hand up your arse making your mouth move...again...

  • March 20, 2008

    3:03 PM

    Dr. Phil writes:

    Speaking of jay's shortcomings, I've mentioned many times on here, that the most glaring one is his inferiority complex, which stems from his father's rejection of him, and has contributed to his current issues of alcoholism, narcissism and fear of abandonment. Here's a piece that elaborates:

    http://www.ere.net/articles/db/AA95BD6EF8FA403AB228A8219F6CBDB5.asp

  • March 20, 2008

    3:34 PM

    Love & Darkness & my Sidearm writes:

    It really shows how scared the Rightys are of Obama - when they make such a big deal out of comments his PASTOR (not Obama) said.

    Obama has clearly and unequivocally DENOUNCED the foolish words uttered by the Pastor, yet these Rightys continue to infer that Obama agrees with those words.


    This should not be a surprise - these are the same Rightys who - even after five FULL years of Iraq- cannot open their narrow minds far enough to see what a disaster it's been.


    The behavior of the Rightys who do this would be quite funny, except it's sad and pathetic. It's sad that people that naive and/or hateful are allowed to vote.

  • March 20, 2008

    3:35 PM

    Anonymous writes:

    Jay,

    You can disagree all you want. I don't have a horse in the race. I know that a liberal will be elected in November, I just don't know how liberal they are going to be. I am just passing along poll results.

    http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/general_election_match_up_history

  • March 20, 2008

    3:36 PM

    Hogar De Vuelta (العودة) aka ignorant strawman warmonger racist withsome friends writes:

    Jay,

    You can disagree all you want. I don't have a horse in the race. I know that a liberal will be elected in November, I just don't know how liberal they are going to be. I am just passing along poll results.

    http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/general_election_match_up_history

    Dear Darkness,

    Obama can't run from an intimate 20 year relationship with Wright.

  • March 20, 2008

    3:54 PM

    am 760 writes:

    Hey Righties, how does it feel to be on the side that encourages cheating so your side can win the election. Way to sabatoge our democracy you idiots, be proud of yourselfs and your talking heads. If you can't win fair and square, cheat, just like you did in the last 2 elections.
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20080320/us_time/cangopvotersspoilthedemrace

    And Hog, Bush seems to have been able to run from his intimate 20 year relationship w/ the bin laden family. What a bunch of hypocrites and morons you are.

  • March 20, 2008

    4:02 PM

    Love & Darkness & my Sidearm writes:

    Obama may have been stupid to give this speech.


    Sadly, it is stupid to think that American voters would think highly of honesty, candor and courage - three values displayed by Obama for confronting this non-issue head-on.

    The standard GOP playbook that we've seen repeated ad nauseum throughout the neoCON era is to simply deny, deflect, lie, spin, deceive your way around an issue like this. This cowardly approach has won MANY elections for the neoCONs.


    It seems American voters prefer the latter approach to the former... just read the comments below. Part of me wonders if the anti-Obama comments are being posted by Obama supporters posing as Obama-bashers, in an effort to make the Obama-bashers look stupid. But, then I realize these Obama-haters are sincere - and really ARE that stupid.


    It makes me very sad for America to see so much hate, stupidity and closed-mindedness.

  • March 20, 2008

    4:09 PM

    benn writes:

    Jeff - No thanks.

    I will stand here right now and say Obama will work to improve this country. McCain and the rest of the repukes will ignorantly tear it apart through violence and selfishness.

    I haven't seen that from Obama. I won't take one NON-ISSUE and conservatively spun video clip to make important decisions.

    Way to play the 'fear' card again. You must bite on that everytime. If I had to guess, I bet that the terrorists love Bush and McCain - they provide them an endless supply of recruits.

  • March 20, 2008

    4:18 PM

    Ben- aka Gepetto writes:

    Pinochio, were is the link that will make you NOT look like the liar you are?

    You have a major self esteem problem and it seems to all be connected in one vicious cycle. The truth is your friend, embrace it and your "willful ignorance" may be relieved.

    Scurry away now and use your cute little term like "don't pout" for lack of anything of substance my wooden little boy.

    L-D and S.
    Get in touch with reality. I would say that YOU are the stupid one and can't see past your nose, but i will refrain.

    a.m 760, Dude/dudette you are not very impressive.

  • March 20, 2008

    4:29 PM

    am 760 writes:

    Ben that means alot to me coming from a traitor to america. Did you read the article you idiot about how your beloved radio talking heads are encouraging repubs to vote in the dem primaries to sabatoge it. Good job supporting the side that has to cheat to win. You and your ilk go on about how patriotic you are yet you spit in the face of our democracy, because your side can't win without cheating.

  • March 20, 2008

    4:41 PM

    jay writes:

    ben...LOL...are you still trying to convince the class that that little ditty you posted earlier hasn't been making the rounds on the right wing blogs? Parts of that POS have been making the rounds for quite some time. Did you think no one would notice?

    you are too funny man....keep up the good work...and learn to use google and check who else has been spreading that kind of crap before you try to pawn it off here, alrighty?

    elevate your game a little, man, it's getting a little embarassing to watch

  • March 20, 2008

    4:52 PM

    Ben- Former Democrat writes:

    a.m., This is how impressed I am with you.

    Pinochio, your nose is growing

  • March 20, 2008

    4:58 PM

    Hogar De Vuelta (العودة) aka ignorant strawman warmonger racist withsome friends writes:

    am760,

    Last I heard, the world does not have a beef with the Bin Laden family. Only one Osama Bin Laden, who last I checked is hiding in a rat hole because Bush keeps lobing missles at him. And Bush did not put Osama Bin Laden on his campaign committee in either 2000 or 2004.

  • March 20, 2008

    6:05 PM

    CC writes:

    "righty" this and "righty" that...

    You sheeple are so brainwashed that direct your ire at the right, even when it's your fault, but guess what?

    IT'S YOUR OWN DAMN PARTY!!!

    Clinton unleashed all of this! And it's just starting folks.

    You want to talk about cheating? You ain't seen nothin yet. Wait until this thing is taken from Obama when he has both the popular vote AND the delegates!

    The crap you make up won't compare the injustice the DNC will create.

    Misdirect all you want, your side is full of children who can't behave and don't mean a word of what they say. America is starting to get the message.

  • March 20, 2008

    7:56 PM

    jayisanidiot writes:

    Wow, jay chiding ben for posting partisan rhetoric.

    Now that is one frickin pot calling the kettle black.

    LOL

  • March 20, 2008

    8:18 PM

    Anonymous writes:

    Liberal Democratic pundits are hand-wringing about the deep trouble the Democrats are in with no relief in sight:

    1. The transcendent black candidate calls his granny a racist while defending his church where his blood relatives are not welcome.

    2. Hillary releases - very grudgingly - heavily redacted records of her White House years of political "experience". Early reviews reveal a lightweight record of policy experience. Analysts interested in reading under the broad black felt-tip lines.

    3. The head of the DNC is in a pissing match with two large state delegations after the "I told you this would happen" speech. A looming crisis resides on the radar for August.

    4. Superdelegates are suffering chapped fingers from wetting them prior to thrusting them into the air to test the ever-changing political winds. Voter disenfranchisement will bite the Democrats firmly on their pimpled arses.

    5. Democratic stars are self-destructing within the tangle of racist trip wires they have laid out to ensnare careless Republicans.

    6. Disgraced former Democratic Governor Eliot Spitzer is one-upped by his replacement who announces multiple episodes of infidelity with state employees while the ink is still moist on the ascention paperwork.

    And the list goes on.....

    This is your Democratic Party. Imploding once again with no help from their political adversaries.

  • March 20, 2008

    11:46 PM

    Hazardous_T writes:

    For those who are worried about socialism, this is evidence that socialism from the right, often known as national socialism, has a foothold in the policies of the Republican party.

    Posted by history buff on March 20, 2008 10:05 AM

    Here is a description of the ultimate National Socialist by Professor Edward Fesser.

    He had been something of a bohemian in his youth, and always regarded young people and their idealism as the key to progress and the overcoming of outmoded prejudices. And he was widely admired by the young people of his country, many of whom belonged to organizations devoted to practicing and propagating his teachings. He had a lifelong passion for music, art, and architecture, and was even something of a painter. He rejected what he regarded as petty bourgeois moral hang-ups, and he and his girlfriend "lived together" for years. He counted a number of homosexuals as friends and collaborators, and took the view that a man's personal morals were none of his business; some scholars of his life believe that he himself may have been homosexual or bisexual. He was ahead of his time where a number of contemporary progressive causes are concerned: he disliked smoking, regarding it as a serious danger to public health, and took steps to combat it; he was a vegetarian and animal lover; he enacted tough gun control laws; and he advocated euthanasia for the incurably ill.

    He championed the rights of workers, regarded capitalist society as brutal and unjust, and sought a third way between communism and the free market. In this regard, he and his associates greatly admired the strong steps taken by President Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal to take large-scale economic decision-making out of private hands and put it into those of government planning agencies. His aim was to institute a brand of socialism that avoided the inefficiencies that plagued the Soviet variety, and many former communists found his program highly congenial. He deplored the selfish individualism he took to be endemic to modern Western society, and wanted to replace it with an ethic of self-sacrifice: "As Christ proclaimed 'love one another'," he said, "so our call -- 'people's community,' 'public need before private greed,' 'communally-minded social consciousness' -- rings out.! This call will echo throughout the world!"

    The reference to Christ notwithstanding, he was not personally a Christian, regarding the Catholicism he was baptized into as an irrational superstition. In fact he admired Islam more than Christianity, and he and his policies were highly respected by many of the Muslims of his day. He and his associates had a special distaste for the Catholic Church and, given a choice, preferred modern liberalized Protestantism, taking the view that the best form of Christianity would be one that forsook the traditional other-worldly focus on personal salvation and accommodated itself to the requirements of a program for social justice to be implemented by the state. They also considered the possibility that Christianity might eventually have to be abandoned altogether in favor of a return to paganism, a worldview many of them saw as more humane and truer to the heritage of their people. For he and his associates believed strongly that a people's ethnic and racial heritage was what mattered most. Some endorsed a kind of cultural relativism according to which what is true or false and right or wrong in some sense depends on one's ethnic worldview, and especially on what best promotes the well-being of one's ethnic group

    There is surely no doubt that the man Feser describes sounds very much like a mainstream Leftist by current standards. But who is the man concerned? It is a historically accurate description of Adolf Hitler. Hitler was not only a socialist in his own day but he would even be a mainstream socialist in MOST ways today. Feser does not mention Hitler's antisemitism above, of course, but that too seems once again to have become mainstream among the Western-world Left in the early years of the 21st century.

    None of that sounds like Bush policies but most of it sounds remarkably like Obama's

  • March 21, 2008

    12:32 AM

    Hazardous_T writes:

    "There is more that binds us to Bolshevism than separates us from it. There is, above all, genuine, revolutionary feeling, which is alive everywhere in Russia except where there are Jewish Marxists. I have always made allowance for this circumstance, and given orders that former Communists are to be admitted to the party at once. The petit bourgeois Social-Democrat and the trade-union boss will never make a National Socialist, but the Communists always will." Adolf Hitler

  • March 21, 2008

    1:27 AM

    Hazardous_T writes:

    Omnia mea mecum porto. "Study everything, join nothing."

  • March 21, 2008

    7:30 AM

    SASQUATCH writes:

    Obama is an ass. This total stranger and unknown is being peeled like an onion and is assisting the process by actively exposing himself. The more America sees of this chameleon, the less it is seduced by his shallow and empty charm. BO is plunging in the polls and HRC has moved from behind and has captured a solid lead. The good news is that McCain has grabbed a solid lead over both. The Democrat's race-riot and hate-whitey agenda has changed the political terrain in favor of America.

  • March 21, 2008

    8:47 AM

    Shaggy: aka Typical white person writes:

    Did anyone hear Obama explain the racial comment he made about his grandma being scared of black people.

    He said that she is just a typical white person.
    I guess Obama is stereo typing all white people into one group now.
    Can you imagine what would happen if McCain said "oh that is typical of black people"....he would be strung up, yet Obama gets a pass.
    I think the racial Wright has preached to him for so long Obama doesn't even understand the shit that comes out of his mouth....
    Keep talking Obama...get your wife out there to help put the dagger in your fruitless quest...

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2008/03/20/obama-grandma-typical-white-person-fearing-everyone-she-doesnt-know

  • March 21, 2008

    9:30 AM

    KW writes:

    While Ohama has given credit to Wright for effectively "leading him to Christ," after viewing Wrights hate speeches, one has to wonder just what sort of "Christ" did Wright lead Obama to?

    It certainly isn't the teachings of the Christ I've read and learned about.

  • March 21, 2008

    9:42 AM

    jay writes:

    Maybe you'd prefer the bigoted, hate-filled "spiritual advisor" to John McCain, Rod Parsley or Jeff Hagee, kw.

    hypocrisy at its finest.

    thanks again for another fine example

  • March 21, 2008

    9:48 AM

    Anonymous writes:

    But the real problem here is not whether the Senator attended church, or whether he was aware of his reverend’s views, but how he handled an inflammatory spiritual leader during a presidential campaign. If you want to know how to do it right, ask John McCain. He also has a long-standing and complicated relationship with controversial preachers: Jerry Falwell, Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson. Now I’m not comparing Falwell and Robertson to Jeremiah Wright, after all, the Sunday after September 11th, Rev. Wright said this:

    Wright: “America’s chickens are coming home to roost.”

    Chickens? Roost? That implies we have the terrorists cooped up in tiny cages for years and we didn’t do that until after 9/11. By comparison, Falwell and Robertson delivered a touching sermon three days after September 11th:

    Fallwell: “I really believe that the pagans and the abortionists and the feminists and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way, all of them, who tried to secularize America, I point the finger in their face and say ‘you helped this happen.’”

    Robertson: “I totally concur”

    It is even more inspiring than their sermon about the two sets of footprints on the beach. The second set belongs to a gay dude sneaking up on you. Run, Jesus! But like the out of control Rev. Wright, Falwell and Robertson were also condemned by a presidential candidate. During John McCain’s 2000 campaign, he called them both “agents of intolerance.” But before this campaign, McCain did what was necessary to win. Here’s what he said about them this time:

    McCain: I believe that the “Christian Right “ has a major role to play in the Republican Party.”

    Russert: Do you believe that Jerry Falwell is still an agent of intolerance?

    McCain: No, I don’t.

    He embraced them. In fact, in 2006, McCain gave the commencement address at Falwell’s Liberty University. I’m telling you folks, the man is such a maverick, he is even independent from his own true feelings! McCain was able to cozy up to preachers who say that gays and Satanists are the same thing and it’s a non-issue. I think that Obama’s mistake is that he did it backwards. If he had denounced Rev. Wright years ago, then quietly embraced him for this election, he could have spent the time he wasted on yesterday’s speech focusing on the issues that really matter.


    Stephen Colbert

  • March 21, 2008

    9:52 AM

    KW writes:

    You're comparisons are laughable and completely devoid of merit jay.

    For a person who constantly harps about "critical thinking" you certainly don't practice what you preach.

  • March 21, 2008

    9:57 AM

    Anonymous writes:

    Jay - Link please about Hagee or Parsley, or should we just take that as more of your unsubstantiated crap?

  • March 21, 2008

    10:02 AM

    jay writes:

    cruton, here's a link.

    www.google.com

    Mccain has called Rod Parsley his "spiritual advisor" and actively sought out hagee's endorsement.

    Hagee is the one who blamed Katrina on god's wrath against homosexuals...and Parsley is convinced that we should "destroy" muslims and islam altogether.

    great stuff...i guess you guys missed that one what with all the wright further and all.

    like i said...thanks for the shining example of far right wing hypocrisy.

  • March 21, 2008

    10:08 AM

    Anonymous writes:

    Typical libby. Can't do your own work, so you expect us to make your argument for you. No wonder you people are going to get thumped in November. Following which, abortion will be overturned, as will any chance of special rights for gays.

    Thanks for making my Good Friday even better! LOL!

  • March 21, 2008

    10:11 AM

    KW writes:

    Crap. Now we have to send jay back to "link" school until he can understand just exactly what that word means.

    How about this jay, Obama's wife is on record saying HIllary's a bull-dike and Mccain's wife is her bitch.

    Here's the link. www.theinternet.com

  • March 21, 2008

    10:16 AM

    Anonymous writes:


    Stephen Colbert,
    You don't need to run around posting that on every thread...thank you

    management...

  • March 21, 2008

    10:20 AM

    Anonymous writes:

    Even better, here's a link that supports the belief that the vast majority of Americans want no special rights for gays, want illegals thrown out, and think jay should kill himself immediately:

    www.jayisanass.com

    So we'll just concede your point on this one, as so many others.

  • March 21, 2008

    10:22 AM

    jay writes:

    I guess cruton is okay with mccain's spiritual advisor being a bigot...just not obama's (which he's since denounced)

    maybe cruton just likes the "right" kind of bigot

    again...far right wing hypocrisy at its finest. keep up the good work

  • March 21, 2008

    10:25 AM

    JW writes:

    I don't know, I think that Colbert post SHOULD be everywhere. There is simply NO ONE better at pointing out the double standard of the wingnuts.

    All you need to do is watch them here, bashing Obama, and excusing McSame. Pathetic.

    Even more pathetic that this issue isnt even important, and its all they can think about...besides a 10 year old bj.

  • March 21, 2008

    10:40 AM

    Anonymous writes:

    Nobody cares what you think Jdumbya. Get back on the short bus and finish that juice box.

  • March 21, 2008

    11:35 AM

    Anonymous writes:

    jay blathers: I guess cruton is okay with McCain's spiritual advisor being a bigot"

    Again, for you in the far left cheap seats: Link please. Until then, you've conceded the point.

    This is like teaching special ed.

  • March 21, 2008

    11:46 AM

    jay writes:

    here you go cruton....but next time i'm going to have to charge you for the tutoring....

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hagee

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_parsley

  • March 21, 2008

    11:53 AM

    Anonymous writes:

    First off jaykass, Wiki is hardly a credible, peer-reviewed source. Secondly, opposing gay marriage, is hardly controversial, rather it is serving the opinions of the vast majority of Americans. Much the same was reflected in CO when the vast majority refused to grant special rights to gays.

    Next case.

  • March 21, 2008

    12:03 PM

    KW writes:

    Wiki??? OK jay, I'll give you an "E" for effort. At least you've learned to actually post a link. We'll try and cover content validity of a source with you at another time.

    The other part of this course we need to cover with you is correlation.

    You're claim that McCain receiving an endorsement from a preacher is the same thing as joining a church, having your wedding and children blessed by the preacher and attending faithfully for over 20 years is the same thing.

    Your links provide absolutely no such evidence. The closest your source even comes is barely mentioning that a preacher endorsed McCain.

    If you don't understand the difference here we may have to send you to a remedial course on providing links because this class seems to be way over your head.

  • March 21, 2008

    12:04 PM

    Anonymous writes:

    11:53 AM,
    Usually jay will give you a link to daily kos or media matters so you should feel lucky.

  • March 21, 2008

    12:09 PM

    history buff writes:

    "There is surely no doubt that the man Feser describes sounds very much like a mainstream Leftist by current standards."

    Posted by Hazy

    There is surely no doubt that Hazy is a reactionary. Probably Ben using another name.

    The administration just gave $30,000,000,000 of taxpayer money to finance the buy out of Bear Stearns. The payment was made without any bids, with no consideration of benefiting insiders as opposed to other creditors, without consideration of tax liability. The government paid an extraordinary sum to benefit a very small group who are supposed to know the risks of the market place.

    Maybe no bid contracts like this one are not national socialism in the strictest sense. But giving hand outs to private corporations without going through Congress and avoiding the market seems socialistic.

    Maybe a better definition would be to call it domestic presidential imperialism, or political spoils. Bush and the Republicans are avoiding the democratic process by the way they have prosecuted the war, and how they have handled the Bear Stearns buy out. Spending bills are supposed to originate in the House of Representatives.

    Bush & Co. have concentrated power in the executive. There is no draft, so the polity is not directly affected by the deaths in Iraq. No bid private contractors provide services that historically have been provided by the military, at a premium to the taxpayers. The army clerk and army cook are replaced by a corporate caterer, where the Veep used to work. Army intelligence is replaced by Titan Corporation interrogators. Special combat units are replaced by Blackwater mercenaries. And until General Petrius took over command, much of the strategy in Iraq, including the ill-advised pacification of Falujah, was made by the private contractors instead of the military.

    And Bush & Co. have pacified the American polity by offering tax breaks as deficits spiral. If the war in Iraq is a worthy cause, the American public should be asked to sacrifice as we have done in the past. Instead, we have a devalued dollar that makes everything more expensive, wiping out the benefit of the tax beaks for everyone except the very wealthy.

    Of course, like Tevya, if I had just a little fortune, say $100K of the $30B, I could be bought off the way he has bought off the the airheads who voted for him.

  • March 21, 2008

    12:13 PM

    Anonymous writes:

    jay, really, PLEASE take that critical thinking class. I'll even pay for it since I know you're not doing well these days.

    And PLEASE work on the issues with booze and your self-image. Daddy's rejection still stings you today. It is obvious since you know you can't keep up with the other boys and girls here.

  • March 21, 2008

    12:32 PM

    jay writes:

    LOL...you guys still apologizing for the bigotry of McCain's "spiritual advisor" (mccain's words) and the preacher whose endorsement mccain personally sought out?

    nice...like I said...the bigotry is alright as long as it's the "right" bigotry....right kids?

    again...thanks for providing us with another shining example of far right wing hypocrisy.

    by the way...saying that god killed several thousand people because of a gays in NO is bigotry. saying you want to "destroy" muslims is hate, people.

    rationalize all you want...but you're just digging your own holes here

    keep up the good work

  • March 21, 2008

    1:28 PM

    Anonymous writes:

    Tut, tut, tut. What is all the fuss about--can't BO's fan club come up with anything better than diverting this issue to McCain? BO is under the magnifying glass here, and the scrutiny is not pleasant--for BO, or his campaign. All's well that ends well, and Hillary Clinton will become the next president of the USA. Or John McCain. Or Ralph Nader, perhaps.

  • March 21, 2008

    1:43 PM

    Republican Hypocrisy writes:

    We got to make sure we are hating the right people and discriminating against the right groups. Obama's bible man is not doing either.

  • March 21, 2008

    1:46 PM

    Anonymous writes:

    1:28 - Not a chance on Hillary, she is all but out of the picture now, and when Obama, looking tattered and bloody accepts the nomination of a divided dumbocrat party (after the requisite shootout of the superdelegates), the dems will be so divided that McCain will look like a class act. No easy feat to be sure, but remember, this is the same party who couldn't beat dubya in 2004.

  • March 21, 2008

    2:32 PM

    history buff writes:

    It may feel good to espouse self-fulfilling prophesies, but I'd keep an eye on the financial papers if you want to start predicting the final outcome of this election.

  • March 21, 2008

    2:32 PM

    Shaggy: aka Typical white person writes:

    Hell, the Dumbacrack heads might have to forfeit the election when it comes down to the Super Dees. If the Super Dees decide that Ohhhhbama the plastic rock star is to bruised to be electable...OMG...Ohhhhbamas groupies will turn Denver upside down and make the 1968 riots in Chicago look like a sesame street kiddie show.
    I know I will avoid Denver like the plague when the loony tunes come to town.
    Hide your children and pets during the DNC.

  • March 21, 2008

    3:25 PM

    Straw Man writes:

    You go jay!

  • March 21, 2008

    4:19 PM

    KW writes:

    jay sure is reaching now. That's the first sign of an extremely desperate boy.

    So McCain's "spiritual advisor" is a preacher from a church 3000 miles away that he met less than a month ago. And you want to compare this with Obama's hate-spewing mentor of 20+ years?

    Lets break this down slowly so jay can understand.

    McCain never called Parsley "his" spiritual adviser. At the opening of a speech McCain gave 3-4 weeks ago, when he FIRST MET PARSLEY EVER, McCain referred to Parsley as "a" spiritual advisor, not "his."

    Hell, he'd never met the man. The only places promoting this non-news propaganda are far left wing liberal loon blogs. Oh, and the huffington post. That should've been jay's first clue as to the lack of validity of the story. But it wasn't. Can anyone here imagine why?

    jay - Next time YOU try and "swift-boat" someone make sure you have some gas in the tank, wouldja?

  • March 21, 2008

    4:34 PM

    jay writes:

    lol...keep rationalizing/justifying/apologizing, kw....you continue to give us the perfect example of far right wing hypocrisy

    keep up the good work my little rushian footsoldier

  • March 21, 2008

    4:40 PM

    KW writes:

    jay - Haven't you learned yet? You can't paddle a "swift-boat." Especially one so full of holes.

    I'm just hoping you forgot your life vest.

  • March 21, 2008

    5:02 PM

    jay writes:

    keep rationalizing/justifying/apologizing, kw....you continue to give us the perfect example of far right wing hypocrisy

    keep up the good work my little rushian footsoldier

  • March 21, 2008

    5:36 PM

    Michele writes:

    Jay and his crew of aliases have been pumping that Obama stock big time. The Apologist Press likewise has been on overdrive rushing out the gushing praise of his Chinese Meal Speech - the one that left you hungry for more after it was digested.

    The Dems are in BIG TROUBLE. It everywhere in the news. Desperation permeates the air as the Repubs have settled back comfortably to watch the fireworks followed by the implosion.

    Another election cycle has come, and the Failure Party has once again positioned itself to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

    This beats the Food Network any day of the week.

  • March 21, 2008

    5:44 PM

    Anonymous writes:

    jay, you are a joke. Zero credibility. Get a clue.

  • March 21, 2008

    6:23 PM

    Hazardous_T writes:

    lol...keep rationalizing/justifying/apologizing, kw....you continue to give us the perfect example of far right wing hypocrisy

    keep up the good work my little rushian footsoldier

    Posted by jay on March 21, 2008 04:34 PM

    I'm kind of new to this blog so I have to ask, has Jay ever made an intelligible post? And do his multiple personalities call each other "Parteigenosse" (Party Comrade)?

    Just something to ponder.

  • March 21, 2008

    7:48 PM

    Hazardous_T writes:

    There is surely no doubt that Hazy is a reactionary. Posted by (revisionist)history buff on March 21, 2008 12:09 PM

    "I come to the inescapable conclusion that we must now launch the most decisive and merciless battle against the Black Hundreds clergy and crush their resistance with such ferocity that they will not forget it for several decades... The bigger the number of reactionary clergy and reactionary bourgeois we manage to shoot in the process, the better."
    - V. I. Lenin

    Its hard to convince anyone you are not an extreme leftist when you advocate their policies and use their vernacular.
    I'm surprised you didn't call me a bourgeois reactionary except you probably don't know how to spell it or what it means.

  • March 21, 2008

    8:13 PM

    Hazardous_T writes:

    "The reasoning of Marx ends in absolute contradiction. Taking into account only the economic question, he insists that only the most advanced countries, those in which capitalist production has attained greatest development, are the most capable of making social revolution. These civilized countries, to the exclusion of all others, are the only ones destined to initiate and carry through this revolution. This revolution will expropriate either by peaceful, gradual, or by violent means, the present property owners and capitalists. To appropriate all the landed property and capital, and to carry out its extensive economic and political programs, the revolutionary State will have to be very powerful and highly centralized. The State will administer and direct the cultivation of the land, by means of its salaried officials commanding armies of rural workers organized and disciplined for this purpose. At the same time, on the ruins of the existing banks, it will establish a single state bank which will finance all labor and national commerce.

    It is readily apparent how such a seemingly simple plan of organization can excite the imagination of the workers, who are as eager for justice as they are for freedom; and who foolishly imagine that the one can exist without the other; as if, in order to conquer and consolidate justice and equality, one could depend on the efforts of others, particularly on governments, regardless of how they may be elected or controlled, to speak and act for the people! For the proletariat this will, in reality, be nothing but a barracks: a regime, where regimented workingmen and women will sleep, wake, work, and live to the beat of a drum; where the shrewd and educated will be granted government privileges; and where the mercenary-minded, attracted by the immensity of the international speculations of the state bank, will find a vast field for lucrative, underhanded dealings."
    Mikhail Bakunin. 1872

    As you can see your supposed "progressive ideas" aren't new.

    Anyone who doesn't want government's sticky fingers in your pocket and still votes democrat is profoundly ignorant. It's fine if you don't like Bush's fiscal policies but just wait till you elect a democrat to the White House and launch a full blown depression.

  • March 21, 2008

    10:41 PM

    Hazardous_T writes:

    I swear, you lefties really should learn a little about the origins of the policies you advocate.

  • March 22, 2008

    9:12 AM

    Chris writes:

    Haz:

    What is your prediction about how the Dems are going to salvage their Titanic Party?

    My money is on Obama being leaned on by the National Committee to fold and endorse Hillary so that the bleeding can stop.

  • March 22, 2008

    10:06 AM

    Hazardous_T writes:

    Chris, I have always said that Obama was the token black candidate as far as the DNC was concerned. They had no clue that he was a real revolutionary as opposed to a pseudo revolutionary like Hillary. The democratic elite hate him and I see battle royale here in Denver no matter who gets the nomination.

    Just like the Titanic I think they will sit on the bottom and slowly corrode.
    At least I hope so, because if we hand these whackos power we are all in deep doo doo.

    Let the cannibalism begin!!!

  • March 22, 2008

    4:07 PM

    Ben's Border Street writes:

    This is for history bluff, who tried to smear another article by our American brother Frosty. Did you ever call Frosty to confirm his story like you were charged bluff ? No, you didn't. Typical liberal "willful ignorance" and "inconvenient truths".

    http://www.vaildaily.com/article/20080319/EDITS/54393774

    Report and Deport illegal aliens.

  • March 22, 2008

    11:18 PM

    Stay Tuned writes:

    The Democratic Party is hopelessly fractured. Racism is running rampant through the Party of Tolerance. Bill Richardson was looking unusually Hispanic at his Obama endorsement speech - deep tan and facial hair. Obama still trying to run away from his past after initially lying about his awareness of the bigoted pastor. With each speech he digs a deeper hole. The mainstream press is starting to analyze the speech he made and is finding out that their first starry-eyed impression of it was knee-jerk and superficial. Mrs. Obama's unusual statements now make sense. More scandals and infidelities (a tribute to the former Adulterer-in-Chief no doubt).

    And that was just the last two weeks.......

  • March 23, 2008

    9:42 AM

    Chris writes:

    Ben
    I have been listening to a wide variety of news sources. It has struck me that more and more outlets are acknowledging the racism and intolerance that is permeating the primary process - only on the Democratic side.

    This is significant since the majority of the mass media machine has always been protective of the Democratic Party and racial politics. How long will the news blackout on illegal immigration continue as the speeding trainwreck-to-be draws nearer?

  • March 23, 2008

    10:39 AM

    Thats my opinion and I'm sticking to it!! writes:

    Obama should recuse himself from his run for Presidency for belonging and repeatedly defending his racist and hate filled bigoted spiritual adviser.
    It is obvious that 20 years of absorbing Wrights spewage has corrupted his "typical white person" and his "only recently proud" wifes minds.
    He should also step down from the Senate in disgrace for still belonging to such a despicable racial Church.

    It's time to take Obama's free pass card away.
    Can any of you imagine if McCain or Hillary made a "typical white person" remark or if they belonged to a Church that was racial and hate filled against blacks?

  • March 23, 2008

    12:03 PM

    Anonymous writes:

    Liberals have absolutely no ability to recognize their deep-rooted hypocrisy - even when it continually kicks them in the face.

    This is why they always lose.

  • March 23, 2008

    3:41 PM

    SC writes:

    Fact have a well known liberal bias

  • March 23, 2008

    5:29 PM

    Anonymous writes:

    No, The fact is, liberals ride the short bus.

  • March 23, 2008

    5:56 PM

    PC writes:

    The Democratic Party is on a collision course with self-realization. After the racial meltdown of Obama, many are increasingly disillusioned about the integrity of their politicians, who all have been demonstrating their base qualities in an all out effort to win at all costs.
    The attention will be turned back to Hillary. Now that she has finally released the evidence all have been waiting for to evaluate her executive experience gained as First Lady, the early analysis is coming up short on substance.
    Democratic insiders and pundits are issuing the alarm - a candidate must be picked now lest we suffer a bloodbath in August.

    Be scared. Be very scared.

  • March 23, 2008

    5:57 PM

    Anonymous writes:

    Fact is Liberals ride the bus and want someone else to pay!!

  • March 23, 2008

    10:11 PM

    Cooper writes:

    Excellent summary PC. Once again, the Political Jackasses are going to have to stand behind the Elephants.

  • March 24, 2008

    12:18 AM

    Liberal Christian writes:

    We are fortunate to have Obama running for president. A Christian on a journey. This is a Christian nation, and we are about to elect a giant.

  • March 24, 2008

    8:55 AM

    Arlene writes:

    Live by the sword, die by the sword. Obama decided early in his career that to get into Chicago politics he would have to associate with the power brokers in the hood. Now he wants to pretend it never happened.

    A president for the people cannot be a follower of racist separatist ideology. We would never give the David Dukes of the world a stage to pretend they are not who they are. Why do so for Obama?

  • March 24, 2008

    9:05 AM

    Democrats are living up to their mascot writes:

    Well, yea Arlene. More and more of us Democrats are coming to the same conclusion. I am appalled at what Obama, his wife, and his pastor have said. I'm just glad that Joe Biden didn't try to complement Obama by saying he was "not a typical Black person". I shudder to think what the result would have been. As it was, Biden was taken to the wood shed by the Black Caucus for his "racist" comment Obama was articulate.

    Time to register as Independent.

  • March 24, 2008

    9:50 AM

    Soon to be former Democrat writes:

    I am totally disgusted with my party. This behavior and hypocrisy is something I would expect only from Republicans. I am a mixed race (hispanic roots) long term democrat and I just can't take it anymore. Our leaders have proven themselves WORSE than the people they have criticised over the years. Barack Obama in particular is a major liar about his roots (no pun intended) in the racist church of hate. There is no amount of spinning that is going to change that. He is done - DONE. Hillary is not much better. The convention will be a disaster. Howard Dean is disinfrancising a huge number of us loyal voters. I am embarased for all of us.

  • March 24, 2008

    12:03 PM

    history buff writes:

    Damn, I wish I had a no bid contract to steal from the American taxpayer and was protected by Bush's executive order. Crime without risk. Wasn't that what the Mafia said when they moved into Las Vegas after the war?

    http://bh.heraldinteractive.com/news/national/politics/general/view.bg?articleid=1081896

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