July 1, 2008 1:29 PM
Obama seeks to expand and overhaul Bush's faith-based program
In what is likely to cause teeth to be gritted among some of his supporters, Barack Obama wants to expand the Bush administration's faith-based social services outreach - and says it's OK by him if those groups use faith as a criteria in hiring for some jobs.
Obama unveiled his approach to getting religious charities more involved in government anti-poverty programs during a tour and remarks Tuesday at Eastside Community Ministry, which provides food, clothes, youth ministry and other services."The challenges we face today ... are simply too big for government to solve alone," Obama said.
Obama's announcement is part of a series of events leading up to Friday's Fourth of July holiday that are focused on American values.
The candidate spent Monday talking about his vision of patriotism in the battleground state of Missouri. By twinning that with Tuesday's talk about faith in another battleground state, he was attempting to settle debate in two key areas where his beliefs have come under question while also trying to make inroads with constituencies that are traditionally loyal to Republicans and oppose Obama on other grounds.
But Obama's support for letting religious charities that receive federal funding consider religion in employment decisions could invite a protest from those in his own party who view such faith requirements as discrimination.
Obama does not support requiring religious tests for recipients of aid nor using federal money to proselytize, according to a campaign fact sheet. He also only supports letting religious institutions hire and fire based on faith in the non-taxypayer funded portions of their activities, said a senior adviser to the campaign, who spoke on condition of anonymity to more freely describe the new policy.
Politico reports:
Reaching out to evangelicals who are nonplussed by Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), Obama declared: "I still believe it's a good idea to have a partnership between the White House and grass-roots groups, both faith-based and secular. But it has to be a real partnership -- not a photo op. That's what it will be when I'm president. I'll establish a new Council for Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships.""The new name will reflect a new commitment," he continued. "This Council will not just be another name on the White House organization chart -- it will be a critical part of my administration."
Anticipating criticism from the left, Obama said: "I believe deeply in the separation of church and state, but I don't believe this partnership will endanger that idea -- so long as we follow a few basic principles. First, if you get a federal grant, you can't use that grant money to proselytize to the people you help and you can't discriminate against them -- or against the people you hire -- on the basis of their religion. Second, federal dollars that go directly to churches, temples and mosques can only be used on secular programs. And we'll also ensure that taxpayer dollars only go to those programs that actually work."
Good idea or too cozy a relationship between faith-based organizations and government?
July 1, 2008
2:53 PM
Tbone writes:
Mark, your story contradicts itself.
You say:
"Barack Obama wants to expand the Bush administration's faith-based social services outreach - and says it's OK by him if those groups use faith as a criteria in hiring for some jobs."
The Obama campaign (via Politico)says:
" First, if you get a federal grant, you can't use that grant money to proselytize to the people you help and you can't discriminate against them -- or against the people you hire -- on the basis of their religion."
So how do you construe that into "...and says it's OK by him if those groups use faith as a criteria in hiring..."?
Because it seems like the two are exact opposites.
So what gives?
July 1, 2008
3:09 PM
Mark Wolf writes:
T-Bone,
It's a bit of a hair-split. Obama says religious groups can use faith as a hiring criteria in the non-taxpayer funded portion of their activities.
Think he's trying to have it both ways?
July 1, 2008
3:40 PM
Shaggy writes:
Here are some inconvenient facts about Obama.
These are the results of KHOW talk show Host Dan Caplis's research he did on Obama.
I am sure he won't mind me repasting them to show everyone who Obama really is.
For all of you who have man crushes on Obama and are in denial you can look these up and hear them coming from the plastic rock star himself.
http://khow.com/pages/caplisreport.html?feed=281113&article=3865991
"1. OBAMA CONCLUDES "THAT'S JUST HOW WHITE FOLKS WILL DO YOU"
2. OBAMA SAYS WHITE PEOPLE ARE AFRAID AND HAVE DEMONS
3. OBAMA SAYS THE OTHER RACE WILL ALWAYS REMAIN MENACING AND APART
4.OBAMA STOPPED TELLING PEOPLE HIS MOTHER WAS WHITE BECAUSE HE DIDN'T WANT TO INGRATIATE HIMSELF TO WHITES
5. OBAMA SAYS WHITES SPOKE ENDLESS FALSEHOODS ABOUT BLACKS
6. OBAMA SAYS THAT THE INSTINCTS OF MANY WHITE PEOPLE OF HIS GRANDPARENT'S GENERATION ARE LIKE THOSE OF THE MOB
7.OBAMA ACKNOWLEDGES HIS GENERAL DISTRUST OF WHITE PEOPLE
8. OBAMA SAYS WHITES ARE PHANTOMS TO BE EXPUNGED FROM DREAMS
9. OBAMA RIPS WHITE AMERICA FOR MOVING TO SUBURBS -- SAYS WHITES DO IT TO DENY THE LINK BETWEEN BLACKS AND WHITES
10. OBAMA SAYS BLACK NATIONALISM - A STEADY ATTACK ON THE WHITE RACE - WOULD BE JUSTIFIED IF IT COULD DELIVER
11. OBAMA BRAGS ABOUT HIS TRICKS
12. OBAMA FOUND HIMSELF ACTING "CRAZY" IN THE STREETS OF NEW YORK AFTER SEEKING INSPIRATION FROM FORMER BLACK PANTHER LEADER
13. OBAMA CALLS REAGAN DIRTY, AMERICANS MANIC AND SELF ABSORBED
14. OBAMA DESCRIBES HIMSELF AS A WESTERNER NOT ENTIRELY AT HOME IN THE WEST
15. OBAMA CONSIDERED HIMSELF "A SPY BEHIND ENEMY LINES" WHEN HE WORKED IN CORPORATE AMERICA
16. OBAMA ATTENDED SOCIALIST CONFERENCES AT COOPER UNION IN NEW YORK
17.OBAMA WENT OUT OF HIS WAY TO CHOOSE MARXIST PROFESSORS AS HIS FRIENDS
18. OBAMA HUNG OUT WITH RADICALS, GROUND CIGARETTES OUT IN HALLWAY CARPET, BECAUSE HE WAS ALIENATED
19. IN COLLEGE OBAMA AND HIS FRIENDS WOULD GO ON BINGES
20. OBAMA SAYS HIS FATHER GAVE HIM AN IMAGE TO LIVE UP TO
21. OBAMA ON HIS MUSLIM AND CATHOLIC STUDIES
22. OBAMA PUBLICLY DISPARAGES AND EMBARASSES CATHOLIC PRIESTS IN CHICAGO WHO HELPED HIM
23. OBAMA KNEW THAT REV WRIGHT HAD BEEN INVOLVED WITH ISLAM AND BLACK NATIONALISM BEFORE TRINITY UNITED
24. OBAMA KNEW FROM THE FIRST SERMON HE HEARD REV WRIGHT PREACH THAT WRIGHT USED THE PULPIT TO BLAME WHITES FOR THE WORLD'S PROBLEMS
25. OBAMA DRANK HEAVILY AND TRIED DRUGS ENTHUSIASTICALLY
26. OBAMA SAYS POT, BOOZE AND COCAINE HELPED HIM
27. OBAMA CONFIRMS THAT HE WOULD WRITE THE SAME THINGS TODAY
28. OBAMA ADMITS THAT HIS BOOK REVEALS SOME THINGS ABOUT HIM THAT CAUSE HIM SOME SHAME -- AND THAT HE HASN'T BEEN ABLE TO CHANGE"
July 1, 2008
4:07 PM
aquagrrl writes:
Shaggy, what on earth does these neocon talking points (lies) have to do with the article?
July 1, 2008
4:11 PM
Just end the war writes:
http: //news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080701/ap_on_el_pr/obama_faith
Heres what others think about this
"he wants to expand White House efforts to steer social service dollars to religious groups, risking protests in his own party with his latest aggressive reach for voters who usually vote Republican"
Ok this could be a good idea but Federal tax dollars? Federal tax dollars are for all the people not just religious ones. How do you give public money to some groups and not to those who don't go to church at all?
"McCain is a mostly reliable conservative vote, but he isn't as passionate or vocal about religious conservatives as some would like. He also famously upbraided some Christian evangelical leaders as "agents of intolerance" in his first presidential campaign. He has sought to make amends since then and is continuing his outreach efforts. He met with world-renowned evangelist Billy Graham last weekend"
At least McCain doesn't do this YET.
"Obama also chose a different emphasis for why religious charities are an important answer to solving poverty and other social problems: because they better know the people who are hurting, instead of Bush's argument that religion itself is a transforming power the government must not be afraid to harness.
And while Bush supports allowing all religious groups to make any employment decisions based on faith, Obama proposes allowing religious institutions to hire and fire based on religion only in the non-taxpayer-funded portions of their activities — consistent with current federal, state and local laws. "That makes perfect sense," he said.
Where there are state or local laws prohibiting hiring choices based on sexual orientation in the federally funded portion of the programs, he said he would support those being applied.
This position would make his proposal "dead on arrival" for many evangelicals and small churches, said Jim Towey, a former head of Bush's faith-based office. That's because telling a small organization to keep employees hired with federal funds separate from others "is unmanageable — and besides those folks want to hire people who share their vision and mission," Towey said"
I agree with Towey here.
This is bizarre Obama is trying to act like Bush?
Please just end the damm war in Iraq so I can go back to being a republican again. This sucks
July 1, 2008
4:20 PM
Big_D writes:
Aquagrrl,
Nothing shaggy EVER says holds anything but the contents of a right wing fear add. He is pointless and probably just as worthless in person. He would probably use the N-word to refer to Obama if he wouldn’t get blocked.
July 1, 2008
4:25 PM
Big_D writes:
MARK WOLF,
So do you ever tag shaggy for his constant use of defamation on this site?
JETW,
The GOP loves war and McCain has promised to invade Iran if elected. You just seem to be in the wrong party.
July 1, 2008
4:39 PM
Shaggy writes:
Ohh is little_PP pouting again wah wah.
Go to the site I posted and you can hear everything I posted right out of the plastic rock stars mouth instead of trying to crying to MW..
Heavens forbid someone expose the truth about their rock star, they will be labeled a racist.
I wonder if Obama knows so many males, notice I didn't use the term men, have man crushes on him?
July 1, 2008
4:45 PM
Big_D writes:
Who cares about your out of context crap shaggy. The GOP knows McCain is nuttier than squirrel poop and he is nothing more than a white flag of surrender and a place holder until people become complacent and stupid enough to vote for the same GOP that is a screw-up on everything they claim as strength. How are the deficit, nation building and the terrorists gaining strength in Afghanistan going there shaggy?
July 1, 2008
4:49 PM
DennyP writes:
Where are all the anti Christian bloggers that usually post? Where is the bashing of Obama's support for these faith based, anti intellectual religious people? Are you all aware that this is just normal political crap trying to woo the bitter gun-toting, bible thumping morons? Or are you aware that this faith based support will go to folks like Rev Wright and Louis Farrakhan?
July 1, 2008
4:53 PM
BOmyinitials writes:
Anyone notice that Shaggy seems to have a fixation on man-crushes?
July 1, 2008
4:56 PM
BOmyinitials writes:
Shaggy-
What is your fixation on "man-crushes?" You may want to spend some time on that one.
July 1, 2008
5:03 PM
Shaggy writes:
For some reason you think I am a some kind of big McCain supporter.
Let me know which Obama fact you need tutoring with.
http://khow.com/pages/caplisreport.html?feed=281113&article=3865991
July 1, 2008
5:50 PM
KW writes:
You gotta admit, there were a heck of a lot of complainers when Bush wanted to expand this type of program.
I guess it's ok if your name is Obama.
IGIOIYNIO?
July 1, 2008
5:52 PM
SASQUATCH writes:
BO HAS BEEN 100% AGAINST THIS...AND NOW HIS INNER-AFFRIMATIVE ACTION BAG OF FLIM/FLAM & FLIP/FLOPS BE SAYIN' TO HIM--"GO GET IT BRO, DIS HERE BE GUUD FO DA HUD"
July 1, 2008
5:53 PM
Big_D writes:
You say you do not support McCain. So you have no point at all shaggy? I figured you were just bitter and pointless; so, I was right. Thanks!
July 1, 2008
8:57 PM
JW writes:
Ill be pissed at Obama if he actually does this crap, but I understand that he HAS to pander in order to win. McSame is pandering. GW pandered. Clinton pandered. Bush 1 pandered. Reagan pandered. Every President in MODERN HISTORY pandered.
Ill tell you this though, Id be fine if he didnt actually do this even though he said he would. Much better to see a President not do the USELESS crap he promised to win the election. It would be a great change from the damn Bush admin, who didnt do the GOOD things they promised to win, and instead did the bad he didnt even talk about.
July 1, 2008
10:21 PM
Miri NY writes:
Historically, most social progress has begun @ religiously based institutions, from the first schools & hospitals to the civil rights movement. Fanatic secularists are just as dangerous as religious fanatics.
It is refreshing to have a Democrat who is not afraid to recognize the value that religious people can bring to the public square.
July 2, 2008
2:09 AM
Kat writes:
Does this mean that I can quit giving money to my church through donations because I will be giving them money through my taxes?
July 2, 2008
6:17 AM
Anonymous writes:
actually Kat, there are a very large number of people who consider part of their tithe to be included in what the various levels government take in taxes ... pretty much have to when taxes are at or above a certain level, considering inflation / devaluation of currency, and rising energy, food, and goods costs .... however, one has to also consider the needs of their organization in meeting their commitments too
July 2, 2008
7:16 AM
drill shale NOW writes:
you must be joking. Obama is FOR gay marriage and FOR killing babies at ANY term of a pregnancy and he thinks he has ANY moral authority on Faith based initiatives?
http://www.gallup.com/poll/108142/Confidence-Congress-Lowest-Ever-Any-US-Institution.aspx
Methinks the Libs have overplayed their hand
July 2, 2008
9:10 AM
jay writes:
obama is paying the toll to the fundies.
no surprises here. i don't agree with it, but i understand that it's a necessary evil if he wants to win.
July 2, 2008
9:15 AM
JW writes:
Hes actually quallified his position by stating that any money going to a religious organization will require that the program be secular (helps people of all faiths) and their hiring practices conform to title VII of the civil rights act of 1964, meaning no discrimination based on race, gender, age, or RELIGION.
Bush's support of funding for faith based groups didnt just look the other way over discriminatory hiring practices, it straight up condoned it.
July 2, 2008
11:37 AM
kat writes:
Does this mean that I can quit giving donations to my church because I am giving them through taxes?
July 2, 2008
11:38 AM
kat writes:
Does this mean that I can quit giving donations to my church because I am giving them through taxes?
July 3, 2008
9:03 AM
David Hakala writes:
I thought that discrimination in employment based upon religion was forbidden whether you receive government money or not.
I'm skeptical of the benefit that society might receive by diverting money from government social services agencies to faith-based initiatives. It doesn't seem to supplement government efforts to help the poor. It just amounts to outsourcing the functions of government. Robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Of course, it could be a bait-and-switch thing. Faith-based initiatives may help more people than government, but provide less material help per person.
Also, there are quite a few examples of faith-based non-profits mismanaging or embezzling money. There are fewer safeguards against that sort of thing in non-profits than there are in government-run programs.
In short, I feel my tax dollar would be more wisely spent by government than by faith-based programs. I don't fully trust either, however.
July 3, 2008
1:23 PM
Shaggy writes:
Bottom line, Obama needs to get the Christian and Catholic votes in order to win.
Two major problems with this.
He is pro abortion at any stage of pregnancy, even going as far as to vote twice against giving medical attention to babies that survive a botched abortion.
He is also pro gay marriage.
Two major issues that both Religions are highly against.
Obama is such a phony, now I see he has come out and said the Lady who sung at Loopers kudos party was wrong.
Of course he only did this because he felt the direction of the wind blowing.
If it would have turned out that the wind was blowing in favor of this lady singing the black anthem he would have said what a great beginning in diversity.
What a clown.
I forgot to mention he doesn't think someone should be "punished" by becoming pregnant.
July 3, 2008
9:18 PM
Anonymous writes:
Just finished listening to Anderson Cooper's evaluation of Obama's "shift" to the center.
I think I understand what Obama meant when he declared himself the candidate of change. He has shown us that he will change his political positions, just as the winds change, in order to change his message to appeal to whatever voter group he elects to pander to.
John Kerry is mighty proud right about now....
July 3, 2008
9:23 PM
Dina writes:
Just finished watching Anderson Cooper's analysis of Barack shift in ideology.
I think I finally understand what Obama meant when he declared himself the candidate of change:
He will change his political position as the political winds change.
He will change his campaign promises on Iraq as conditions change following the successful surge.
He will change his mind and change his message in order to pander to whichever voting group gives him an audience.
Boy is John Kerry impressed with this FlipFlopper.
July 4, 2008
9:40 AM
KW writes:
Looks like there's another Obamarian shift in the political winds of change...
Obama now wants to "revise" his plans to remove all combat troops from Iraq within 16 months of taking office.
No, I stand corrected, he now has clarified that his plans haven't changed for over a year, yet it would be foolish for him (campaign wise) not to leave a bit of wiggle room in case he needs to change his plans at a later date... like tomorrow.
Thanks for clearing that up OB.
July 4, 2008
11:25 AM
Nike writes:
And
Obama is blaming the Clintonian Vast Right Wing Conspiracy for "priming the media" and causing the uproar that Obama's own words have caused.
When will this dimwit realize that the "Blame Whitey" or blame anyone else game won't fly?
Homey don't play dat.
July 5, 2008
8:36 PM
CrossdressersForObongo writes:
So, let me get this straight. Obongo wants Crossdressers to be allowed to work for Faith-based Organizations?
And, Obongo just wants people to Get, Get, Get, but not 'have to' listen to anything about Jesus as their Savior?
Instead Obongo wants 'no proselytizine' allowed to people that come in to get free aid, just gimme' the food, housing, and money, and don't tell me anything about the Bible or even offer me a free Bible?
Does this mean that a peodifile can not be discriminated when applying for a faith-based job?
Does this mean that all the money from the Federalies can only be for non-faith based things like food, housing, money?
Yup, Obongo is the Anti-Christ.
He added how he wants people to know about 'HIS FAITH' and that means Black Liberation Theology, an altered Bible that tells you that Jesus was Black and born in Africa, not 'Jesus of Nazareth'.
Yup, to hell in a hand basket.
Oh, and he's going to want 'Restitution' pay for Black Slaves decendents.
Yup, Obongo hates Whites and is setting up Whites for a big big shifting reversal of lives, by putting Blacks on top of Whites although the Whites worked for generations for what they have, Obongo will take it and give it to the Blacks.
July 6, 2008
8:37 AM
The Debacle in Denver writes:
I think John Kerry is both embarrassed and relieved that Slobama is elevating flip flopping to a new height. Legions of HRC supporters recognize the sentinel issue stances (Ending the War, Free Trade/Nafta) where SLomama distinguished himself from her to win the nomination only to reverse those positions now that he has eliminated Clinton. These voters have said they would not vote for OMama in November, and now they have fresh confirmations of their convictions.
The dude is torpedoing his campaign. Kerry nods agreement at the replay of his own implosion all over again. There is a reason HRC only suspended and not ended her campaign.
July 6, 2008
9:10 PM
Carol M. writes:
I don't necessarily agree with you style Deb in Den, but as a Hillary supporter I am infuriated that Barack stole the primary from Hillary by making promises that he had no intention of honoring.
I am hoping that Hillary is poised to make a comeback at the Convention if Mr. Obama continues to alienate those who put him at the bow of the party. What a supreme mess - and it is getting worse.
July 7, 2008
3:04 PM
Hogar De Vuelta (العودة) Republican, because not everyone can be on welfare. writes:
I think the government should get out of the charity business, but if it insists on playing in that arena, then faith based organizations should not be discriminated against for their religious belief.
July 7, 2008
6:39 PM
JMHM writes:
It is sooo ironic that Hillary Clinton remained paranoid about the right wing conspiracy only to be toppled by some good old liberal politick-doublespeak?
Hooray for Obama. He's lied his way into the nomination, now he can lie his way to the White House.