July 2, 2008 1:45 PM
What's it like to be waterboarded?
Christopher Hitchens, an author and critic who supports the Iraq war, volunteered to be waterboarded to determine first-hand if it was torture.
Here is the most chilling way I can find of stating the matter. Until recently, "waterboarding" was something that Americans did to other Americans. It was inflicted, and endured, by those members of the Special Forces who underwent the advanced form of training known as sere (Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape). In these harsh exercises, brave men and women were introduced to the sorts of barbarism that they might expect to meet at the hands of a lawless foe who disregarded the Geneva Conventions. But it was something that Americans were being trained to resist, not to inflict.Exploring this narrow but deep distinction, on a gorgeous day last May I found myself deep in the hill country of western North Carolina, preparing to be surprised by a team of extremely hardened veterans who had confronted their country's enemies in highly arduous terrain all over the world. They knew about everything from unarmed combat to enhanced interrogation and, in exchange for anonymity, were going to show me as nearly as possible what real waterboarding might be like.
It goes without saying that I knew I could stop the process at any time, and that when it was all over I would be released into happy daylight rather than returned to a darkened cell. But it's been well said that cowards die many times before their deaths, and it was difficult for me to completely forget the clause in the contract of indemnification that I had signed. This document (written by one who knew) stated revealingly:
"Water boarding" is a potentially dangerous activity in which the participant can receive serious and permanent (physical, emotional and psychological) injuries and even death, including injuries and death due to the respiratory and neurological systems of the body.
Here's a video of Hitchens' experience.
July 2, 2008
2:48 PM
Lee writes:
Waterboarding is a potential fate our captives face - along with three hots and a cot and an endless parade of legal appeals.
Beheading with a rusty Scimitar with a bunch of guys shouting "allah akbar" in the background is the only option if Al Qaeda captures you.
There's a big difference.
July 2, 2008
2:55 PM
tancredoplantationresident writes:
I don't know what is like to be GOP waterboarded. In 1962, my step-brother (13 years of age) was GOP (sulfur) water-boarded in Calhoun Falls, SC, by white cops (KKK). They threw him into a river and 5 days later they "fished" him out. I often wondered what David's adult life would have been like. No white man went to jail for this crime.
David should be proud of his others brothers. I served in 3 deployments to Vietnam. Our younger brother Larry, served as a USMC machine gunner in Vietnam. Larry was shot in his face during a NAM fire fight and today he is blind, PTSD, Agent Orange infected, diabetic, and his legs need amputation. James served in Vietnam in the U.S. Army. Daivd's family owns 1 Purple Heart and 5 Combat Action Ribbons. I'd be willing to bet money those KKK bigots would have drafted David too. Black men and gays were culled in the Vietnam War.
Raygun gave Japanese Americans $20K each for them being jailed internment camps. Black men should be paid for slavery reparations and black men who served or died in Vietnam should also be paid a 2nd check for $20K. 55% of the soldier-draftees killed in NAM were black, while we only comprised 12% of the nation's entire population.
July 2, 2008
3:01 PM
history buff writes:
Yea, Lee, but you aren't arguing right or wrong, you are arguing what would a criminal do? Just because criminals commit crimes doesn't mean we throw all laws out the window when dealing with criminals. The Geneva Convention and other international compacts forbid torture. If we hold ourselves out to be a nation of laws, then we should respect the law.
July 2, 2008
3:39 PM
Shaggy writes:
I for one admire Christopher Hitchens bravery to volunteer for this test.
In fact I am so impressed that I will volunteer if they ever do a test to see if putting womens panties on someones head is torture.
July 2, 2008
3:46 PM
NDeeZ writes:
Absolutely agree with 'History Buff.' If you lower yourself to their level, you've lost what it means to be American, to have ideals of fairness and justice, to treat people humanely and even act (dare I say it?) Christian.
July 2, 2008
3:48 PM
NDeeZ writes:
Absolutely agree with 'History Buff.' If you lower yourself to their level, you've lost what it means to be American, to have ideals of fairness and justice, to treat people humanely and even act (dare I say it?) Christian.
July 2, 2008
4:02 PM
Nell Carter, Roseanna Barr and Barbara Streisand writes:
Ok Shaggy, you're on.
Be at our place at 9 tomorrow night.
btw, we're having mexican beforehand.
July 2, 2008
6:47 PM
KW writes:
4 out of 5 terrorist prisoners prefer water boarding to decapitation every time... hands down.
July 2, 2008
7:08 PM
SASQUATCH writes:
Waterboarding makes you want to talk; to converse and communicate--to partake in social intercourse; its like attending a well-oiled cocktail party where everyone is gabbing. Its also a bit like a three-hour, 7-martini blaa-blaa lunch.
And you still get a chance to wake-up the next A.M. with an aching and throbbing head; but its still attached to your neck!
July 2, 2008
8:39 PM
er.by.ru writes:
Hack again?!
July 2, 2008
9:17 PM
Kevin J Jones writes:
Worth repeating for the pro-torture chest-thumpers:
"1. Waterboarding is a deliberate torture technique and has been prosecuted as such by our judicial arm when perpetrated by others.
2. If we allow it and justify it, we cannot complain if it is employed in the future by other regimes on captive U.S. citizens. It is a method of putting American prisoners in harm’s way."
July 3, 2008
7:01 AM
bropous writes:
Hitchens has done stellar work on reporting the Global War on Islamist Terror, but on this issue, he is incorrect.
Hitchens is a soft, flabby, spoiled urbanite. He is not a battle hardened, deprivation scarred terrorist whose training would be considered torture as well. These are hard men, and it takes hard action to break them.
It always burns me that someone clals this activity "torture". Actual torture is gross physical harm, such as an electric drill through the kneecaps, beating savagely with truncheons, burning with cigarettes or hot irons, pulling arms out of sockets, breaking fingers, etc. The ones who receive waterboarding are in no way harmed, AND THEY KNOW IT. These scumbags know good and well that they will not be harmed, once captured, by US military personnel. WE SIMPLY DO NOT DO THAT.
It is sad, though, that so many on the Left savagely attack the US military, and yet they completely ignore the actual torture that Sadam Husayn's minions engaged in, including Usay and Qusay's penchant for raping girls in front of their parents, or feeding eight year old kids into industrial chipper shredders feet first, again, with their parents forced to watch.
Hitchens may think waterboarding is torture, but I bet you that most of the terrorists who went through it do not define torture in the same way.
July 3, 2008
7:37 AM
ColoradoWest writes:
What's the point of the story?
Is Hitchens a suspected terrorist? Then why's he doing this story?
I hope waterboarding is bad enough to make people talk. That's all someone needs to know.
Hitchens...what a dope.
July 3, 2008
7:44 AM
Anonymous writes:
yo bigfoot and kw, it's still AGAINST GENEVA AND OTHER CONVENTIONS that we are partner to, and against the moral view of our country as a whole .... it makes NOT ONE EFF'ING DIFFERENCE how much less reprehensible it is compared to another form of torture or murder .... damn you guys are willing idiots sometimes
July 3, 2008
7:55 AM
bropous writes:
anonymous, the Geneva Convention also states that illegal combatants should be executed, not taken into custody and given an attorney and access to the American judicial system.
Waterboarding is NOT torture.
Waterboarding causes NO physical harm.
Torture is the deliberate infliction of gross physical harm upon a person.
Hitchens is just a soft civilian and has no real concept of what is required to make a hardened terrorist talk without inflicting damage. No person has ever been harmed by waterboarding, and therefore, no torture has been committed.
July 3, 2008
8:27 AM
JW writes:
"Waterboarding causes NO physical harm."
Everyone has an opinion, but some are more informed than others.
Read the article again idiot. Its pretty clear that waterboarding can cause plenty of harm, up to and including death.
Jackasses, the lot of you. We are America. We dont torture. We claim to be a nation of laws and torture is against those laws. We have prosecuted waterboarding specifically as torture in the past. You cant accuse someone of "torture via waterboarding" in an international court, and then say "accept when we do it, then its no biggie". Doesnt work that way.
And remember this...driving your car is FAR more likely to kill you than Osama is. You chumps are actually arguing for us commiting immoral acts out of fear when that fear is basically irrational. I doubt any of you have given up driving. Its fairly pathetic that so many of you are scared to the point of condoning torture by a bunch of towelheads living in caves.
July 3, 2008
8:49 AM
SASQUATCH writes:
"yo bigfoot and kw, it's still AGAINST GENEVA AND OTHER CONVENTIONS"
Terrorists do NOT enjoy protections under the Geneva Convention.
Yo that!
July 3, 2008
9:06 AM
history buff writes:
What is a terrorist there, little buddy? The nazis called the resistance terrorists. I realize emotional buzz words appeal to the excitable followers of the presidential usurper, but if you are trying to say anything significant, try to stay away from the hype. It sounds like a car dealership commercial. DEALS! DEALS! DEALS!
July 3, 2008
10:57 AM
jay writes:
i think it's safe to say that the folks in america against torture are more american than those who support it
July 3, 2008
11:29 AM
Shaggy writes:
How many of the terrorists that have been cut loose return to kill Americans?
Don't the Geneva conventions only apply to Uniformed Armies affiliated with a certain Country?
I say send any one caught in an gang here in the States should be sent to club Gitmo as well.
July 3, 2008
11:45 AM
benn writes:
That's because you're an idiot shaggy
July 7, 2008
8:19 AM
JMH writes:
Torture is completely useless to gain information. If you torture someone enough, they will tell you they started the Chicago Fire, but that doesn't make it true does it?
I find it funny that only the usual 19%ers on this site would support torture. It may work on TV, but in real life, someone will tell you anything you want to hear just so you stop the torture. Maybe the problem is, the ignorant right-wingers on this site just don't know the difference between TV Land and real life?
July 7, 2008
2:55 PM
Hogar De Vuelta (العودة) "Ask not what your country can do for you...." writes:
TPR,
You need to do some research regarding black deaths in Viet Nam.
http://www.vhfcn.org/stat.html
July 7, 2008
5:24 PM
Hogar De Vuelta (العودة) "Ask not what your country can do for you...." writes:
Political correctness gone awry.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1032449/Police-sniffer-dogs-wear-bootees-house-searches-avoid-offending-Muslims.html